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CHISOXFAN21
09-28-2007, 11:03 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Razor leads his players .... they respect him. You get a lot more out of players with respect, than Ozzie style rants and raves!Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:

ilsox7
09-28-2007, 11:04 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:

:rolling:

JB98
09-28-2007, 11:05 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:

Where the hell did this come from?

WizardsofOzzie
09-28-2007, 11:07 PM
Boy we are getting some epic first posts recently. First the Hanson fanatic now this :?:

itsnotrequired
09-28-2007, 11:08 PM
let's all fight the inviable man...

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:11 PM
I like Razor too, but I'll hold off the tirade until he actually gets fired. Ozzie hasn't exactly given Razor the vote of confidence however.

ilsox7
09-28-2007, 11:12 PM
I like Razor too, but I'll hold off the tirade until he actually gets fired. Ozzie hasn't exactly given Razor the vote of confidence however.

Haven't some folks speculated that Razor may be one of the reasons our prospects suddenly hit a developmental wall?

eriqjaffe
09-28-2007, 11:13 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:Welcome aboard, Mr. Shines!

itsnotrequired
09-28-2007, 11:22 PM
Haven't some folks speculated that Razor may be one of the reasons our prospects suddenly hit a developmental wall?

I can't believe he killed a man and got away with it...

kevingrt
09-28-2007, 11:26 PM
When the going gets bad, it gets really bad. Great first post though.

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Haven't some folks speculated that Razor may be one of the reasons our prospects suddenly hit a developmental wall?
Our prospects haven't hit a developmental wall.

Fields, Richar, Owens, and Floyd have been steadily improving. Ditto Logan.

Wassermann has been excellent.

Broadway and Phillips have had decent showings in limited time.

Sweeney and Anderson didn't get much of a chance. Masset I guess you could say "hit a wall" but I wouldn't phrase it that way. He was put into a role he couldn't handle and has since been converted to a starter. Haeger is well, Haeger. How much further can a pitcher who doesn't know where the ball is going to go develop?

The players who hit a wall were either unproven players no longer considered prospects (Aardsma, Sisco, etc.) or veterans (Pods, Konerko, Dye, Crede, etc.) but it has been our prospects who have kept us from 95+ losses IMO.

thomas35forever
09-28-2007, 11:31 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Razor leads his players .... they respect him. You get a lot more out of players with respect, than Ozzie style rants and raves!Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:
What's this? Our season went down the crapper and you blame it on this?
:welcome::dumbass:

ilsox7
09-28-2007, 11:31 PM
Our prospects haven't hit a developmental wall.

Fields, Richar, Owens, and Floyd have been steadily improving. Ditto Logan.

Wassermann has been excellent.

Broadway and Phillips have had decent showings in limited time.

Sweeney and Anderson didn't get much of a chance. Masset I guess you could say "hit a wall" but I wouldn't phrase it that way. He was put into a role he couldn't handle and has since been converted to a starter. Haeger is well, Haeger. How much further can a pitcher who doesn't know where the ball is going to go develop?

The players who hit a wall were either unproven players no longer considered prospects (Aardsma, Sisco, etc.) or veterans (Pods, Konerko, Dye, Crede, etc.) but it has been our prospects who have kept us from 95+ losses IMO.

You're talking about this year only. Over the past several years, I have read many people at WSI ***** and moan about how our prospects seem to fizzle out. I have also seen many people say that Razor Shines is part of the reason they do so.

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:32 PM
When the going gets tough, fire Ozzie.

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:39 PM
You're talking about this year only. Over the past several years, I have read many people at WSI ***** and moan about how our prospects seem to fizzle out. I have also seen many people say that Razor Shines is part of the reason they do so.
Who has said that? Fields has developed fine. Is Razor the reason Sweeney hasn't hit for power? Is it Razor's fault that McCarthy had a straight fastball? Is it Razor's fault that BA had a problem with his swing that the MLB hitting coach didn't want to try to fix?

Any prospect who *****es about Razor probably isn't a very good prospect because of his own shortcomings. I've seen nothing out of Razor other than discipline, a demand for respect, and competitive fire. I've heard about people supposedly "in the know" saying bad **** about Razor, but people supposedly "in the know" have also said Brian Anderson gets into fights with members of the coaching staffs' children and visits bars with peculiar and all-too-revealing names. At face value, I like Razor. He's serious and he's a winner.

CHISOXFAN21
09-28-2007, 11:39 PM
I really think that a HUGE problem here is that Coach Shines isn't one of the Sox "ex player" "good ole boys" You certainly DO NOT have to be a past superstar to be a GREAT COACH! And just because you are past superstar does not mean you'll be a Great Coach! Coach Shines is part of the new breed of coaches. We'd better wise up and embrace this man and what he has to offer the Sox or we'll be facing him on the other side of the field. This guy is not going anywhere. The organization needs to decide if we want him with us or against us. Against us would not be a good move for the organization.

Brian26
09-28-2007, 11:40 PM
I find it very interesting that the coach with one of the White Sox organizations most winning and SUCCESSFUL records is being "STRUNG ALONG" like you're stringing along Razor Shines. What's the deal Ozzie? Seems like you might possibly be jealous of your 3rd base coach! Not only does he have the respect of the players... he's a nice guy too. Razor leads his players .... they respect him. You get a lot more out of players with respect, than Ozzie style rants and raves!Sign him or move over Ozzie! He's good for the team. Maybe it's time for you to retire!:angry:

Thanks for the post, Mrs. Shines.

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:44 PM
I really think that a HUGE problem here is that Coach Shines isn't one of the Sox "ex player" "good ole boys" You certainly DO NOT have to be a past superstar to be a GREAT COACH! And just because you are past superstar does not mean you'll be a Great Coach! Coach Shines is part of the new breed of coaches. We'd better wise up and embrace this man and what he has to offer the Sox or we'll be facing him on the other side of the field. This guy is not going anywhere. The organization needs to decide if we want him with us or against us. Against us would not be a good move for the organization.
Razor certainly doesn't seem like another Jerry Manuel. He doesn't seem like an Ozzie Guillen either. He seems like a no-****, take-no-prisoners, you-don't-like-it-you-can-kiss-my-fat-ass, let-my-fat-gut-hang-out-while-I-rip-you-a-brand-new-******* kind of guy.

CHISOXFAN21
09-28-2007, 11:49 PM
HAHAHA, Is that the best response you could come up with? Leave the coach's lady of it. My post was true and can & will stand on it's own. Sheesh!

Gavin
09-28-2007, 11:49 PM
this website is becoming more and more of a joke with the way people treat newbies

itsnotrequired
09-28-2007, 11:50 PM
this website is becoming more and more of a joke with the way people treat newbies

I hate America and all it represents.

ilsox7
09-28-2007, 11:51 PM
Who has said that? Fields has developed fine. Is Razor the reason Sweeney hasn't hit for power? Is it Razor's fault that McCarthy had a straight fastball? Is it Razor's fault that BA had a problem with his swing that the MLB hitting coach didn't want to try to fix?

Any prospect who *****es about Razor probably isn't a very good prospect because of his own shortcomings. I've seen nothing out of Razor other than discipline, a demand for respect, and competitive fire. I've heard about people supposedly "in the know" saying bad **** about Razor, but people supposedly "in the know" have also said Brian Anderson gets into fights with members of the coaching staffs' children and visits bars with peculiar and all-too-revealing names. At face value, I like Razor. He's serious and he's a winner.
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1396637&postcount=31

That was the type of post I was remembering. I am not saying this is true, I was just askign the question.

Gavin
09-28-2007, 11:52 PM
I hate America and all it represents.

k

champagne030
09-28-2007, 11:52 PM
You're talking about this year only. Over the past several years, I have read many people at WSI ***** and moan about how our prospects seem to fizzle out. I have also seen many people say that Razor Shines is part of the reason they do so.

Maybe some have said that, but I don't recall reading such statements. He did lead his teams to successful seasons and players produced under him, only to get to Chicago and **** themselves. Maybe it was because he didn't help prepare them for the future and was only concerned about winning, but maybe not.......


Didn't see your last post il, but I have no idea about his developmental skills.

Brian26
09-28-2007, 11:54 PM
this website is becoming more and more of a joke with the way people treat newbies

You thought that post wasn't insane?

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:54 PM
I hate America and all it represents.
lol

Brian26
09-28-2007, 11:57 PM
You certainly DO NOT have to be a past superstar to be a GREAT COACH!

When I think Joey Cora and Art Kusyner, I think superstar.

Domeshot17
09-28-2007, 11:58 PM
I think more of it has been poor drafting then developing. I disagree Anderson did not get a fair shake, he had plenty of time last year and did nothing. He had a good 2 month run, but instead of finishing strong had another terrible september. I remember reading part of the problem they had with Anderson was he was resisting changes Walker and Ozzie were trying to make to his swing. Sweeney is still very young, the Jury is out on him. Fields has come along nicely, and Richar is showing promise. Owens is what Owens is, probably will never be more then a fourth OF but hes producing his max so you can't blame Razor for that.

Coaching is one thing you never know about. We all wanted Cora's head as a 3rd base coach, and I was pretty upset the way they treated rock (he lost his 1b coaching job because Baines did not like being bench coach, and bench coach because Cora sucked at 3rd and had to go somewhere else). But after reading up on this, you hear a lot of the players say how hard Joey Cora works to prepare scouting reports on pitchers for the hitters, how he gives a lot of positive reinforcement and how he will make a great manager one day.

Bottom line is we have a manager who does play favorites, and does keep people in his dog house (sometimes deserving sometimes not). Once you are in you are in (Uribe) and once you are in the dog house, you probably are never coming out (Pods Anderson). Its one of his flaws, but he makes up for it elsewhere. Where Razor stands is yet to be seen.

UserNameBlank
09-28-2007, 11:59 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1396637&postcount=31

That was the type of post I was remembering. I am not saying this is true, I was just askign the question.
Well, I don't personally know Ozzie, Razor, or KW, but I think if that post you linked to was worth any sort of substance whatsoever Razor would not be part of the coaching staff. There would be no reason for the Sox to keep a coach around that they don't like. And if the coaching staff likes him but the players don't, well too bad. He's not a hitting coach, not a pitching coach, not a bullpen coach, so he's not going to be instructing these guys on mechanics or anything like that. If players do not like him because of his personality, attitude, or whatever then too bad.

itsnotrequired
09-29-2007, 12:02 AM
k

Top 5 letter in the alphabet...did you know it used to have an identity problem?

Gavin
09-29-2007, 12:09 AM
Top 5 letter in the alphabet...did you know it used to have an identity problem?

The letter K used to have an identity problem? Do you mean the KKK? Cause I think I was just saying 'OK', shortened. I'm sorry, what was your question again? Was there some sort of Anti-K movement I missed? Jesus.

Brian26
09-29-2007, 12:11 AM
The letter K used to have an identity problem? Do you mean the KKK? Cause I think I was just saying 'OK', shortened. I'm sorry, what was your question again? Was there some sort of Anti-K movement I missed? Jesus.

:?:

Gavin
09-29-2007, 12:13 AM
:?:

Top 5 letter in the alphabet...did you know it used to have an identity problem?

Your guess is as good as mine.

ilsox7
09-29-2007, 12:14 AM
Your guess is as good as mine.

joke http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fjoke) /http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngdʒoʊk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngjohk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, joked, jok·ing. –noun 1.something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.

INR was joking around. Your response, on the other hand, was just bizarre.

Gavin
09-29-2007, 12:16 AM
joke http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fjoke) /http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngdʒoʊk/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngjohk] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, joked, jok·ing. –noun 1.something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.

INR was joking around. Your response, on the other hand, was just bizarre.

explain his joke

Lip Man 1
09-29-2007, 01:37 AM
I do recall at WSI posts from some fans including some from the Charlotte area who have seen Shines in action that stated he was not very good in a position of responsibility.

It was a few years ago and I can't remember a lot of details but I seem to recall some folks saying he was lazy and surly with the prospects.

Lip

ilsox7
09-29-2007, 01:40 AM
I do recall at WSI posts from some fans including some from the Charlotte area who have seen Shines in action that stated he was not very good in a position of responsibility.

It was a few years ago and I can't remember a lot of details but I seem to recall some folks saying he was lazy and surly with the prospects.

Lip

That's pretty much what I was getting at, hence my initial proposal of the question. Maybe one of those folks will be around this weekend to chime in.

JB98
09-29-2007, 01:49 AM
That's pretty much what I was getting at, hence my initial proposal of the question. Maybe one of those folks will be around this weekend to chime in.

I've heard a lot of speculation, both here and elsewhere, that Shines isn't particularly effective. Frankly, I don't have a strong opinion on it.

The only comment I have on Shines is I think he's done a good job as a third-base coach. I haven't seen him make a single idiotic decision this season. Cora, OTOH, seemed to make multiple idiotic decisions in a week's time.

salty99
09-29-2007, 01:54 AM
I've heard a lot of speculation, both here and elsewhere, that Shines isn't particularly effective. Frankly, I don't have a strong opinion on it.

The only comment I have on Shines is I think he's done a good job as a third-base coach. I haven't seen him make a single idiotic decision this season. Cora, OTOH, seemed to make multiple idiotic decisions in a week's time.


I'm sure Shines has made a few mistakes this year, but nothing glaring like Cora.

Nellie_Fox
09-29-2007, 01:55 AM
I'm sure Shines has made a few mistakes this year, but nothing glaring like Cora.Any third base coach who never runs a guy into an out at home isn't trying hard enough.

JB98
09-29-2007, 02:06 AM
I'm sure Shines has made a few mistakes this year, but nothing glaring like Cora.

Sure. We've had guys thrown out at home this year. Hell, Pods got thrown out just last night. But it seems like when we've been thrown out at home this season, my reaction has been, "That was a chance worth taking."

With Cora, my reaction was often, "What the **** was he thinking?"

Mohoney
09-29-2007, 05:26 AM
The only comment I have on Shines is I think he's done a good job as a third-base coach.

I agree with this sentiment. Who cares about any perceived lack of skill at developing youngsters? It's not his job anymore. The only thing that anybody should concern themselves with is if he's doing a good job at 3rd base.

This thread has been completely banana sandwich from the 1st post onward.

A. Cavatica
09-29-2007, 08:04 AM
This thread has been completely banana sandwich from the 1st post onward.

Yes indeed.

:threadrules:


:threadblows:

The Immigrant
09-29-2007, 08:42 AM
I can't believe he killed a man and got away with it...

That was Nardy. He killed a man with a broom stick in a Mexican prison.

FarWestChicago
09-29-2007, 08:45 AM
Sure. We've had guys thrown out at home this year. Hell, Pods got thrown out just last night. But it seems like when we've been thrown out at home this season, my reaction has been, "That was a chance worth taking."

With Cora, my reaction was often, "What the **** was he thinking?":waving

Now I could really get you thinking!

tebman
09-29-2007, 08:48 AM
This thread has been completely banana sandwich from the 1st post onward.

:rolling:

CHISOXFAN21
09-29-2007, 09:26 PM
The 3rd base coach can't send a player home if they never reach base to start with!!!!!! Coach Shines is doing a great job! Keep up the good work Razor! Your hard work and personal ethics will pay off.

Brian26
09-29-2007, 09:29 PM
personal ethics

A thirdbase coach with personal ethics will win you a World Series.

:thumbsup:

CHISOXFAN21
09-29-2007, 09:33 PM
AMEN TO THAT! MARK MY WORD..... RAZOR SHINES WILL TAKE A TEAM ALL THE WAY AND WIN A WORLD SERIES. HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE THE THE WHITE SOX. :bandance:

TDog
09-29-2007, 09:43 PM
Did I miss something? Did Ozzie Guillen give Razor Shines a wedgie or something?

By the way ...

... How much further can a pitcher who doesn't know where the ball is going to go develop? ...

Certainly not four straight 20-win seasons after a 21-save season. Wilbur Wood developed a nice little career though.

Nellie_Fox
09-30-2007, 01:51 AM
This may be a first; a new poster who makes his first five posts be about the third-base coach.:?: