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View Full Version : What's going to happen with Crede in 2008?


AZChiSoxFan
09-26-2007, 01:30 PM
Is Crede a FA after this year, or is he just Arbitration eligible?

nysox35
09-26-2007, 02:02 PM
Arb Eligible for 2008 season.
Free Agent after 2008 season

salty99
09-26-2007, 02:16 PM
However he will become a free agent this offseason if we refuse to offer arbitration., which I doubt will happen.

IlliniSox4Life
09-26-2007, 03:03 PM
However he will become a free agent this offseason if we refuse to offer arbitration., which I doubt will happen.

I seriously doubt we don't offer him arbitration.

Are teams allowed to trade players after going to arbitration with them, or are they barred from trading them for a certain amount of time?

Lip Man 1
09-26-2007, 03:46 PM
My guess is they work out a one year deal then perhaps as early as spring training he is traded (after showing he's healthy) if the Sox feel they will not be able to work out a longer contract extension.

Given the relationship, or non relationship may be a better term, between the club and Scott Boras, I figure it's 70-30 Crede doesn't last the entire 2008 season with the White Sox.

Lip

Dont Stop Belivn
09-26-2007, 05:01 PM
My guess is they work out a one year deal then perhaps as early as spring training he is traded (after showing he's healthy) if the Sox feel they will not be able to work out a longer contract extension.

Given the relationship, or non relationship may be a better term, between the club and Scott Boras, I figure it's 70-30 Crede doesn't last the entire 2008 season with the White Sox.

Lip

I think it might be even less than that. I think it might be 85-15

LITTLE NELL
09-26-2007, 05:04 PM
If hes healthy in the spring, I say trade him, move Fields back to 3rd, put Owens in LF and sign Tori Hunter or Rowand for CF. I think the world of Crede but I think he should have had the surgery at the end of last season. The team needs more speed and Crede is just one more slo-mo guy. I think that maybe Owens can become another 2005 Pods.

skottyj242
09-26-2007, 08:10 PM
Crede has said before something along the lines of if his agent gets in the way of a fair deal the agent will be gone. I say he's going to come back and sign for a couple of years.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2007, 08:15 PM
Skotty:

Crede did in fact say that a few years ago.....last I looked he hasn't changed agents.

:rolleyes:

Lip

Daver
09-26-2007, 08:18 PM
Skotty:

Crede did in fact say that a few years ago.....last I looked he hasn't changed agents.

:rolleyes:

Lip

And last year he accepted the Sox arbitration offer without question, instead of demanding a trade, or fighting the offer. The agent works for the player, not the other way around, the player has the final say on all business dealings.

Lip Man 1
09-26-2007, 08:26 PM
Daver:

True enough..it's just that given the feelings between the Sox and Scott Boras, which is well known, me thinks if Joe really wanted to work out a long term deal to stay that badly, then he would have changed agents a year or even two years ago.

As of this point in time he hasn't... which leads me to conclude that he's not going to, especially now with the questions about his back. He needs an agent who will somehow create a market for him and like him or not, you have to say Boras can certainly do that.

Lip

Daver
09-26-2007, 08:36 PM
Daver:

True enough..it's just that given the feelings between the Sox and Scott Boras, which is well known, me thinks if Joe really wanted to work out a long term deal to stay that badly, then he would have changed agents a year or even two years ago.

As of this point in time he hasn't... which leads me to conclude that he's not going to, especially now with the questions about his back. He needs an agent who will somehow create a market for him and like him or not, you have to say Boras can certainly do that.

Lip

And right now, the Sox are the best shot Boras has of doing that, because if they offer arbitration, which they will, he has to play to prove he is healthy, and do it in a Sox uniform. Crede is a different type, he does not crave attention, is not a self promoter, and not a superstar type player that can command a huge payday, and his career numbers can't be spun to make anyone believe he is.

asindc
09-26-2007, 09:16 PM
Daver:

True enough..it's just that given the feelings between the Sox and Scott Boras, which is well known, me thinks if Joe really wanted to work out a long term deal to stay that badly, then he would have changed agents a year or even two years ago.

As of this point in time he hasn't... which leads me to conclude that he's not going to, especially now with the questions about his back. He needs an agent who will somehow create a market for him and like him or not, you have to say Boras can certainly do that.

Lip

Well, there's no reason for Crede to respond to a problem that isn't there... yet, if it does manifest itself. I think Crede has to realize at this point he is more valuable to the Sox than to anyone else. If he does and his agent doesn't, well...

Oblong
09-26-2007, 10:32 PM
Crede's "only" made like $4 million in his career. He's at a critical point in his life really. He could be permanently hampered and not be able to make much more than that the rest of his career or he could seriously cash in and set up his grandchildren for life. Based on that I think he's going to do what he can to get a big contract. If they make a reasonable multi year offer this year is he really in a good position to turn it down? If he does and his back keeps bothering him then he's sort of screwed because he never got a chance to make the big money. Can he risk that at this point?

Metalthrasher442
09-26-2007, 10:36 PM
Crede's "only" made like $4 million in his career. He's at a critical point in his life really. He could be permanently hampered and not be able to make much more than that the rest of his career or he could seriously cash in and set up his grandchildren for life. Based on that I think he's going to do what he can to get a big contract. If they make a reasonable multi year offer this year is he really in a good position to turn it down? If he does and his back keeps bothering him then he's sort of screwed because he never got a chance to make the big money. Can he risk that at this point?

I agree. He'll be a chi towner. Not to mention he love playing here and won a championship here. I just hope he comes back strong.

TDog
09-26-2007, 11:03 PM
If the White Sox management believed there was a good chance they would get rid of Crede, they would be playing Fields at third base. Right now, they don't have a third baseman. They don't have a prospect learning to play third base. They have bench-at-best players filling in at third base until Crede comes back.

Unless they go out and get a new third baseman, I don't see them dealing Crede.

Hitmen77
09-26-2007, 11:50 PM
If the White Sox management believed there was a good chance they would get rid of Crede, they would be playing Fields at third base. Right now, they don't have a third baseman. They don't have a prospect learning to play third base. They have bench-at-best players filling in at third base until Crede comes back.

Unless they go out and get a new third baseman, I don't see them dealing Crede.

I agree.

As long as he's healthy, I expect Joe Crede to be our 3B in 2008. His trade value is just too low at this point.

If the Sox flop again next year, I can see them trading Joe mid season by the trade deadline. Otherwise, it wouldn't surprise me if they just rode out 2008 with him and then just took the supplemental draft pick if they don't agree to an extension.

I think the odds are against it, but to be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if the Sox and Joe end up agreeing to an extension if he proves to be healthy next year.

skottyj242
09-27-2007, 10:10 AM
I agree. He'll be a chi towner. Not to mention he love playing here and won a championship here. I just hope he comes back strong.

Good pun.

rdwj
09-27-2007, 10:59 AM
Good pun.


Somebody needs to start selling the bracelets

Zisk77
09-28-2007, 08:59 PM
I believe if Crede is healthy and playing well he will re-sign a lucrative but affordable contract with the Sox. He wants to be here.

I understand that fields is too good to sit and appears to make Crede expendable. However while Fields will probably develop into a better hitter than Crede he doesn't hold a candle to Joe defensively.

As I have said before I believe Fields plays Left next year, Thome leaves when his contract expires, and Konerko moves to Dh. Fields becomes the 1b of the future. Occasionally, he spells Joe at 3b and Paulie plays first.

Remember most felt Dye and Buerhle would be dealt and they were re-signed.

KyWhiSoxFan
09-29-2007, 08:48 AM
I believe if Crede is healthy and playing well he will re-sign a lucrative but affordable contract with the Sox. He wants to be here.

I understand that fields is too good to sit and appears to make Crede expendable. However while Fields will probably develop into a better hitter than Crede he doesn't hold a candle to Joe defensively.

As I have said before I believe Fields plays Left next year, Thome leaves when his contract expires, and Konerko moves to Dh. Fields becomes the 1b of the future. Occasionally, he spells Joe at 3b and Paulie plays first.

Remember most felt Dye and Buerhle would be dealt and they were re-signed.

I'd like to see Fields moved to 1B next year, trade Konerko, and move Dye to DH the following year and spell Thome at DH next year. But that likely won't happen. I think that Fields will be in LF next year and Crede will be given every opportunity to show he can come back and is healthy.

wassagstdu
09-29-2007, 11:27 AM
I believe if Crede is healthy and playing well he will re-sign a lucrative but affordable contract with the Sox. He wants to be here.

I understand that fields is too good to sit and appears to make Crede expendable. However while Fields will probably develop into a better hitter than Crede he doesn't hold a candle to Joe defensively.

As I have said before I believe Fields plays Left next year, Thome leaves when his contract expires, and Konerko moves to Dh. Fields becomes the 1b of the future. Occasionally, he spells Joe at 3b and Paulie plays first.

Remember most felt Dye and Buerhle would be dealt and they were re-signed.
Makes sense. But do the Sox insist on signing Crede before the 2008 season? Big risk, but if they do not sign him before the season, how much time do they give him to rehab at their expense? What if he hits .215 for the first two months, the Sox get off to a slow start without Crede helping, and then after they are out of it, Crede comes around mid-season after the Sox invest half a season in his rehab. No way they re-sign him then.

If they sign him to a contract like the Tigers used with Ordonez, so that they can opt out if he misses more than so many games because of his back, he may play hurt like he did in 2007 and not help the team. I say take that chance, sign him to a reasonable extension with an opt out for continued back trouble -- or roll the dice and sign him cheap without the opt-out. If they can't or won't sign him before the season, use him off the bench until he proves himself, then trade him.

I don't think Fields is a replacement for Crede, I agree that he is a replacement for Konerko or Dye down the road. Maybe park him in left for a year.

Danryan
09-29-2007, 05:59 PM
30 to 40 homers, also gold glove candidate for the next 10 years. Yeah trade him.

Lip Man 1
09-29-2007, 09:26 PM
Dan:

Don't want to trade him but in fact he's got a bad back and in fact his agent is Scott Boras. Look at the history between the organization and him and you draw some pretty obvious conclusions.

Personally I hope Joe can even play another ten years let alone play at the level you indicated.

Lip

Frontman
09-29-2007, 09:36 PM
Crede might have not fired his agent since Boras hasn't given him a reason to. If the deals keep going through without hassle, why bother with finding a new agent?

Danryan
09-30-2007, 01:07 AM
The Sox will negotiate with Boras, even if he is hard to deal with, both sides are posturing. And for Joe's back; if he is healed great for us, and if he isn't, his value is zero anyway.

russ99
09-30-2007, 12:40 PM
This will be an interesting offseason with Crede.

1. All his surgery did was drain fluid from the area in his back that was causing the pain. There's absolutely no guarantees that he'll be able to play this spring, or that the strain of playing at a major league level won't cause the exact same problem to occur again.

2. Boras has been extremely stand-offish with the White Sox on Crede's rehab and his actual medical condition, and I have no doubt the Sox doctors will have no clear data when the decision comes in Dec. to offer arb or to non-tender.

3. Arbitration will be very messy, and with the underlying problems #1 and #2, I don't see Hahn being able to iron out a deal beforehand, especially considering Jerry's track record with injured players and love of performance incentives.

4. Expect Boras to go for the moon on his arb figure, and use Crede's stats from 05 and 06 (including playoff stats) to back up his case, along with records and opinions from his medical "experts".

IMO - the Sox shouldn't expose themselves to this kind of agent shenanigans and non-tender him. Fields has show yet again this week that he's more than capable at 3B, will be a very solid hitter and is on a minimum salary contract.

I love what Joe brought to the table the last few years, but I don't see why he should block Fields and the Sox other winter acquisistions to end up being injured all next season at a $8-10M contract - and then leave as a FA anyway. If he really wanted to stay, Boras wouldn't be his agent right now.

Lip Man 1
09-30-2007, 01:29 PM
From Mark Gonzales' story today in the Tribune:

"In an interesting development, Williams said third baseman Josh Fields would be excused from playing left field in the Instructional League because of sore legs. That raised the question about the future of third baseman Joe Crede, who is recovering from season-ending back surgery.

But Williams insinuated that financial moves made to improve the team could dictate whether Fields stays at third and leaves Crede, who is arbitration eligible, exposed to a trade once he's healthy.

"Josh is not Joe Crede just yet," Williams said. "But in talking to my staff, they believe he can play some championship third base. So now we look at the offensive side of it and the pluses Josh can bring to it, as well as the clutch hitting of Joe Crede. There are some decisions that we have to come to."

Lip

russ99
09-30-2007, 01:39 PM
From Mark Gonzales' story today in the Tribune:

"In an interesting development, Williams said third baseman Josh Fields would be excused from playing left field in the Instructional League because of sore legs. That raised the question about the future of third baseman Joe Crede, who is recovering from season-ending back surgery.

But Williams insinuated that financial moves made to improve the team could dictate whether Fields stays at third and leaves Crede, who is arbitration eligible, exposed to a trade once he's healthy.

"Josh is not Joe Crede just yet," Williams said. "But in talking to my staff, they believe he can play some championship third base. So now we look at the offensive side of it and the pluses Josh can bring to it, as well as the clutch hitting of Joe Crede. There are some decisions that we have to come to."

Lip

Sore legs, huh? :D:

I thought it would be a bad move to get him in the instructional league anyway, cause that would mess up his whole mindset at 3B. Of course, if Crede's healthy and back in the fold, playing Fields in LF would be an option.

How hard is it to play LF anyway? Doesn't the worst fielder always play there?? Podsednik and Carlos Lee aren't exactly gold glovers.

Interesting possibility: If the Sox still have doubts in December, they could non-tender Crede and try to re-sign him as a free agent to a 1 year deal. That would take lots of Boras' options off the table and lessen the risk to the Sox. Plus that whole "can't re-sign untll May 1st" rule is no longer in the CBA anymore.

The risk is Boras peddling him to every other team while undercutting the Sox (like with Ordonez and lots of other Boras clients), and Mags-like PR hit to the Sox if leaves given that he's healthy and excels with a new team (doubtful) next season.

What's worse is that this all could happen in 2009 anyway, regardless if the Sox play nice this offseason.

Grzegorz
09-30-2007, 08:38 PM
Sore legs, huh?

How old is Fields? If his legs are sore, and structurally sound, he'll recover quickly.

As I understood the situation his tour was not one of playing winter ball. This was to be more of an instructional series. Get him out there for some work.

KyWhiSoxFan
10-01-2007, 08:23 AM
I thought the original plan for Fields was for him to take one week of instructional training in LF and that was it.

By giving Fields the winter off, it rewards him for his solid play and says, "You're on the team. We'll let you know later where you're going to play."

It also sends a message to Crede that Fields is not necessarily slotted into LF and the Sox have an option at third if they can't reach an agreement.

Madscout
10-01-2007, 02:39 PM
30 to 40 homers, also gold glove candidate for the next 10 years. Yeah trade him.

But doesn't he have to hit above 300, with at least 40 homers and 100 RBIs to do that?

Lillian
10-02-2007, 06:46 AM
How old is Fields? If his legs are sore, and structurally sound, he'll recover quickly.

As I understood the situation his tour was not one of playing winter ball. This was to be more of an instructional series. Get him out there for some work.

I understand that Fields was hobbled most of this season with a hamstring injury. I heard him say so in an interview. He said that he hadn't been able to really show his speed because of it.