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DrCrawdad
09-25-2007, 08:40 AM
Richard Roeper has a great column (http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/572718,CST-NWS-roep25.article) in todays Sun Times.

Many in city are immune to Cubs fever


Even if this is finally the year, Sox fans still got there first


September 25, 2007
BY RICHARD ROEPER (rroeper@suntimes.com) Sun-Times Columnist


"The whole city of Chicago is really pumped up, isn't it?" -- Cubs catcher Geovany Soto



North Side, South Side


Not the whole city, kid. Maybe three-fifths of the city, but not everyone.

Roeper really nailed it with this column, much as he did with his book (http://www.amazon.com/Sox-City-Affair-Heartbreak-Wizards/dp/1556526792/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7382333-5468757?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190723513&sr=8-1) about his life as a Sox fan and enjoying the '05 Championship.

MarySwiss
09-25-2007, 08:55 AM
Richard Roeper has a great column (http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/572718,CST-NWS-roep25.article) in todays Sun Times.



Roeper really nailed it with this column, much as he did with his book (http://www.amazon.com/Sox-City-Affair-Heartbreak-Wizards/dp/1556526792/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7382333-5468757?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190723513&sr=8-1) about his life as a Sox fan and enjoying the '05 Championship.

That final line REALLY nailed it! Terrific column! :D:

SoxFan78
09-25-2007, 09:10 AM
Great article, very spot on! I highly reccomend his book about the 2005 season if you haven't read it before.

itsnotrequired
09-25-2007, 09:19 AM
What's so great about the piece? There are no shocking truths revealed or anything like that. All he is doing is stating the obvious.

ChiSoxGirl
09-25-2007, 09:29 AM
For one thing, the Sox already got there first, so no matter when the Cubs finally win a World Series, they'll be second in line. I know it'll be a bigger deal in the city and certainly nationwide than a Sox championship -- but we already have our framed ticket stubs and our 2005 memories. We got there first, and that can never change.Not ten minutes ago, a substitute teacher in my school asked how I'm "dealing with this whole Cubs thing." I gave her a shrug and just said, "We did it first and no one can take it away from us." But I also mentioned that I have a whole slew of comebacks just waiting for the first Cub fan to start chirping in my face (thank you, DumpJerry). :wink: I started rattling off things like wire-to-wire, 11-1 in the post-season, and four straight complete games in the LCS... she and the other Cub fan in the faculty room got the point, but the other Cub fan asked why I was so defensive. :dunno:

MarySwiss
09-25-2007, 09:38 AM
Not ten minutes ago, a substitute teacher in my school asked how I'm "dealing with this whole Cubs thing." I gave her a shrug and just said, "We did it first and no one can take it away from us." But I also mentioned that I have a whole slew of comebacks just waiting for the first Cub fan to start chirping in my face (thank you, DumpJerry). :wink: I started rattling off things like wire-to-wire, 11-1 in the post-season, and four straight complete games in the LCS... she and the other Cub fan in the faculty room got the point, but the other Cub fan asked why I was so defensive. :dunno:
Yeah, you're being defensive! You should have asked her why the first Cub fan thought it necessary to raise the point to begin with!

There's this guy at work that mentioned to me a couple of months ago that he's a Cub fan. (I have this Sox shrine on a shelf above my desk.) So yesterday, I ran into him in the break room. We exchanged "good mornings," then he hesitated, and I am pretty sure he was going to crack wise, but he seemed to think twice. Probably realized that they haven't won anything yet--which would have been my comeback--so the smart thing to do is wait until they do.
If he lives that long. :D:

eriqjaffe
09-25-2007, 09:39 AM
What's so great about the piece? There are no shocking truths revealed or anything like that. All he is doing is stating the obvious.It's obvious to us, yes. But to all the people who just assume that everybody in/from Chicago is a Cubs fan, it's not as obvious.

ilsox7
09-25-2007, 09:40 AM
What's so great about the piece? There are no shocking truths revealed or anything like that. All he is doing is stating the obvious.

Can you imagine the level of high comedy and heads exploding around these parts if the Cubs win it all? I think we'd see WSI membership decrease by about 75%!

eriqjaffe
09-25-2007, 09:42 AM
There's this guy at work that mentioned to me a couple of months ago that he's a Cub fan. (I have this Sox shrine on a shelf above my desk.) So yesterday, I ran into him in the break room. We exchanged "good mornings," then he hesitated, and I am pretty sure he was going to crack wise, but he seemed to think twice. Probably realized that they haven't won anything yet--which would have been my comeback--so the smart thing to do is wait until they do.
If he lives that long. :D:If the Cubs do wind up winning the World Series, I am going to be very glad that I didn't rub anybody's face in it in 2005.

Of course, I may also be insulated from smack-talk here at work because I can disable people's accounts. ;)

sox1970
09-25-2007, 09:44 AM
I'll root for whoever plays the Cubs, but if they won it all, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep because the Sox won it first.

In fact, there's a part of me that hopes they finally win it so their assclown fans will stop talking about imaginary curses, and "Believing", and waiting till next next.

Just win the thing, and shut up.

As for comebacks for Cubs fans trying to talk smack, I'll just congratulate them and get on with my day.

DrCrawdad
09-25-2007, 09:46 AM
What's so great about the piece? There are no shocking truths revealed or anything like that. All he is doing is stating the obvious.

Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated.

I would add though that I think Roeper over-values the Cubbies. They are the team with the worst record in all of MLB going into the playoffs (assuming that they don't choke).

The comparisons to the '06 Cardinals really need to stop too. As I've learned from a Cardinals fan, the '06 Cardinals were hurt by injuries and that accounted for the low total number of wins. However in the end the team that won the NL Central and won the World Series was essentially the same team that had won 100 games in '05. In other words, the '06 Cardinals were no "lucky" fluke team.

One last thing Roeper missed too, instead of puffing their chests and boasting in the faces of Sox fans, Cubbie fans really need to thank the Sox and Sox fans. Why? Because without the Sox '05 World Championship, 90 win season in '06 and resulting gains in tv/radio ratings and attendance the Cubbies would NOT have been motivated to sign Soriano (and others). Without a doubt the Sox scared the Cubbies to finally spend some of the money they'd been ferreting away for years.

itsnotrequired
09-25-2007, 09:54 AM
It's obvious to us, yes. But to all the people who just assume that everybody in/from Chicago is a Cubs fan, it's not as obvious.

How many people outside of Chicago will even see this article? Is Roeper published in other papers? It would seem that most out-of-towners that even see the story are Chicago transplants and would know all this stuff anyway.

:dunno:

JohnnyInnsbrook
09-25-2007, 10:07 AM
Have you heard about the couple that named their child Wrigley Fields?If my memory serves me correctly my homeroom teacher at Sandburg (about 9 years ago) named her son Wrigley Fields as well.

SOXPHILE
09-25-2007, 10:11 AM
1) I agree, the whole comparing to the 2006 Cardinals needs to stop. "Well, they did it at only 83-79, so that means the Cubbies can do it too...!" There's several reasons why that's a moot point, but mainly, what one team accomplished last year has no bearing at all on what the Cubs may or may not do this year. Again, they are an extremely mediocre team that's fattening up on some really bad NL central competition right now.

2) This is not as gut wrenching as 2003. The 2005 White Sox have pretty much solved all this nonsense for me. Oh, I'm still pissed their doing good, and hoping hoping hoping every day that they choke and miss the post season, but if they do get in, they get pantsed by the Mets, D-Backs or whoever else they may play in the first round.

3) I've noticed the Tribune hasn't used any "choke" terminology in articles about the Cubs, as they did on every occasion possible during the 2005 White Sox run. I pretty much see nothing but glowing articles about how the fans are smart because they knew the Braves beating the Brewers on Sunday was a good thing, and did the tomahawk chop, or how the Cubs could easily run the table all the way to the World Series.

chisoxmike
09-25-2007, 11:03 AM
Well, it's hard to just "ignore it."

That being said, I want the Cubs to lose. I have no shame in feeling that way. Am I going to go to McNally's or Cork and cheer against the Cubs while burning Cubs flags during their playoff games? No. Am I going to go up to Cubs fans and give them the finger? No.

If they win it all, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep and live in a hole all winter. I would congratulate my friends that are Cubs fans then move on.

The only thing I dont like, no matter what people say, it would wipe the Sox off the map in terms of exposure in Chicago. You would never be able to go out and watch a game somewhere that isn't south of Madison street. The Cubs would be everywhere.

spiffie
09-25-2007, 11:09 AM
Well, it's hard to just "ignore it."

That being said, I want the Cubs to lose. I have no shame in feeling that way.

But, if they win it all, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep and live in a hole all winter. I would congratulate my friends that are Cubs fans then move on.

The only thing I dont like, no matter what people say, it would wipe the Sox off the map in terms of exposure in Chicago. You would never be able to go out and watch a game somewhere that isn't south of Madison street. The Cubs would be everywhere.
I think that would certainly be the case in 2008, but in the long run I think the worst thing that could happen for this team would be to win the World Series. As a fanbase they pride themselves on 2 things:
1. their stadium
2. their perceived loyalty because they love a team that hasn't won in a century.

They win it all, they lose 1/2 their identity. The mystique of the "lovable losers" goes away, and the ability to deify mediocre teams (like the 1969 bunch) because they tried their best or were somehow special gets wiped out. Suddenly you're just like every other baseball fan, hoping your team wins and being pissed when they don't. That puts a lot more pressure on a franchise and makes the fanbase much more restless...just ask Kenny Williams.

spawn
09-25-2007, 11:22 AM
There's this guy at work that mentioned to me a couple of months ago that he's a Cub fan. (I have this Sox shrine on a shelf above my desk.) So yesterday, I ran into him in the break room. We exchanged "good mornings," then he hesitated, and I am pretty sure he was going to crack wise, but he seemed to think twice. Probably realized that they haven't won anything yet--which would have been my comeback--so the smart thing to do is wait until they do.
If he lives that long. :D:
I have a Cub fan here at work that, since the All-Star Break, always makes a point to say "Baseball season is over for you, isn't it?" The only thing I tell him or any other Cub fan that approaches me is either "Talk to me when the Cubs win a game that matters", or "I've seen my team win a World Series in my lifetime. Talk to me when your does." I also have next door neighbors who all of a sudden are the biggest Cub fans on the block. I've always known they were fans, but only because they told me so. They never watched the games on tv. They always wondered aloud why I was watching baseball games on television. Now all of a sudden, they're always watching Cubs games.

If the Cubs win, I'm ok with it. I won't be cheering them on, but it won't piss me off either. I have close friends that are Cub fans, and I wouldn't mind them feeling the euphoria I felt when the Sox won.

skottyj242
09-25-2007, 11:36 AM
How many people outside of Chicago will even see this article? Is Roeper published in other papers? It would seem that most out-of-towners that even see the story are Chicago transplants and would know all this stuff anyway.

:dunno:

Roeper has a link on the Drudge.

eriqjaffe
09-25-2007, 11:42 AM
Roeper has a link on the Drudge.That, I didn't know. I just kind of figured that, since Richard Roeper is something of a national figure due to "Ebert & Roeper", he'd be morel likely to be read by out-of-towners via the web than, say, Carol Slezak.

goon
09-25-2007, 11:50 AM
Well, it's hard to just "ignore it."

You know what? I really disagree though I'm not sure why. I live right in the middle of the Cubs part of town, a few blocks away from Wrigley Field and every year I have always despised the Cub culture, Cub fans, never wanted to the see the Cubs win, etc... However, over the last 3 weeks, probably when they hype has really REALLY started to build, I just don't care and I have no idea why. Considering how much everything about the Cubs used to get me worked up, it's like even if they win the World Series I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

Maybe it's because the Sox won it first or just how better of an organization the Sox are, I don't know, I can't point to those facts as the reason why I'm so moot about this growing Cubbie craze. It just doesn't matter to me.

sox1970
09-25-2007, 11:57 AM
You know what? I really disagree though I'm not sure why. I live right in the middle of the Cubs part of town, a few blocks away from Wrigley Field and every year I have always despised the Cub culture, Cub fans, never wanted to the see the Cubs win, etc... However, over the last 3 weeks, probably when they hype has really REALLY started to build, I just don't care and I have no idea why. Considering how much everything about the Cubs used to get me worked up, it's like even if they win the World Series I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

Maybe it's because the Sox won it first or just how better of an organization the Sox are, I don't know, I can't point to those facts as the reason why I'm so moot about this growing Cubbie craze. It just doesn't matter to me.

See bold...that's why.

Dread Farmer
09-25-2007, 11:59 AM
I wish I could ignore it! But that's like trying to not look at the gas pump and thus avoid high gas prices. The western 'burbs have Cubs fever. Maybe they caught it from the itch mites!

goon
09-25-2007, 12:03 PM
See bold...that's why.

You're probably right, but besides that, even for most of 2007 I hated the Cubs. Every time I watched them play the Brewers or another NL team I liked, I would curse about the Cubs all game. Then, like switch got flipped in my head, I just stopped paying attention/or caring what the Cubs did.

It's Time
09-25-2007, 12:09 PM
And the fact RR wrote the column shows he is thinking about the Cubs. It just comes accross as the usual Sox fans thinking about the Cubs article, which bothers me. RR has wrote many columns about the Cubs, as has John Kass.

Foulke You
09-25-2007, 12:44 PM
1) I agree, the whole comparing to the 2006 Cardinals needs to stop. "Well, they did it at only 83-79, so that means the Cubbies can do it too...!" There's several reasons why that's a moot point, but mainly, what one team accomplished last year has no bearing at all on what the Cubs may or may not do this year. Again, they are an extremely mediocre team that's fattening up on some really bad NL central competition right now.

2) This is not as gut wrenching as 2003. The 2005 White Sox have pretty much solved all this nonsense for me. Oh, I'm still pissed their doing good, and hoping hoping hoping every day that they choke and miss the post season, but if they do get in, they get pantsed by the Mets, D-Backs or whoever else they may play in the first round.

3) I've noticed the Tribune hasn't used any "choke" terminology in articles about the Cubs, as they did on every occasion possible during the 2005 White Sox run. I pretty much see nothing but glowing articles about how the fans are smart because they knew the Braves beating the Brewers on Sunday was a good thing, and did the tomahawk chop, or how the Cubs could easily run the table all the way to the World Series.
Excellent post here. Section #2 of your post is exactly how I'm approaching this "magical" Cubs season. The blanket media coverage has been nauseating as predicted and they haven't even clinched yet. The Sun Times has been almost as bad if not worse than the Trib. They had the headline on Monday filling the FRONT PAGE of the entire paper "MAGIC NUMBER 4" and have been filling the main news section with fluff articles like Baby Wrigley and such. The articles praising Cub fans for doing the tomahawk chop were too many to count. You could play a drinking game for the amount of times the phrases "special, "electric", or "magical" were thrown around. Greg Couch's article was downright disgusting. This of course is the same Greg Couch who was practically dancing a jig when the Tribe closed to 1.5 games and declared us "chokers". Poor Hangar18 must be in therapy by now.:cool:

spiffie
09-25-2007, 12:52 PM
And the fact RR wrote the column shows he is thinking about the Cubs. It just comes accross as the usual Sox fans thinking about the Cubs article, which bothers me. RR has wrote many columns about the Cubs, as has John Kass.
His job is to comment on the news. His persona as a writer is invested in being a Sox fan. Right now the Cubs are very big news. It would seem awkward if he, a guy who comments on the big news and is a known Sox fan, did not offer the perspective of a Sox fan through his column.

Fenway
09-25-2007, 01:23 PM
White Sox fans may complain about Cubs coverage but in New York the Yankees get twice as much coverage as the Mets ( Newsday the exception )

Mets fans are in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island

Yankees fans are in Manhattan, Bronx, Northern Jersey, Westchester and upstate plus Connecticut.

Mets have little support outside the city and Long Island.

TDog
09-25-2007, 01:24 PM
...

One last thing Roeper missed too, instead of puffing their chests and boasting in the faces of Sox fans, Cubbie fans really need to thank the Sox and Sox fans. Why? Because without the Sox '05 World Championship, 90 win season in '06 and resulting gains in tv/radio ratings and attendance the Cubbies would NOT have been motivated to sign Soriano (and others). Without a doubt the Sox scared the Cubbies to finally spend some of the money they'd been ferreting away for years.


By the same token, the Cubs success, which I hope will be limited to September, will keep the White Sox honest as they work to rebuild a winner.

And the White Sox, of all teams, winning the World Series was humiliating to Cubs fans who have clung to the myth that Chicago is a Cubs city. The White Sox broke the glass ceiling. If not for the Sox winning in 2005, after the Red Sox won it in 2004 and before he apparently weak Cardinals won in 2006, Cubs fans wouldn't think they would have a chance with their team this year.

When someone at work asked me during the 2005 ALCS how I felt about the White Sox having a chance to go to the World Series, I said that where I come from, the World Series is something you ask for when you're sitting on Santa Claus' lap. The Sox got to the ALDS and swept. No problem. After losing the first game of the ALCS, they won four. Then they won four more and came home to a parade. (Can you imagine how much less enjoyable that October would have been if the Sox had gone 11-8 in the postseason?) It looked so easy, Cubs fans imagined their team could do that.

Forget that their team has a losing record against the NL East and NL West. Forget that the Cubs had have been a lot closer with better teams and have failed to go the World Series. That was because of a curse. Things are different now. It's fate. It has to be. That's the only way the White Sox could win.

TommyJohn
09-25-2007, 01:41 PM
By the same token, the Cubs success, which I hope will be limited to September, will keep the White Sox honest as they work to rebuild a winner.



Bull****.

whitesoxfan1986
09-25-2007, 02:29 PM
I'm bitter against Cub fans. I got a ton of crap in 2003 when the Sox choked it away in the 2nd half and the Cubs got in. At that time I had no comeback for their **** because the Sox hadn't won anything yet. I never got a chance to rub in the 2005 world series because the people that gave me **** in HS were gone, and so was I. So on the fact of going to the cubbie bear burning the W flag and doing a choke chant, hell I'm all for it. I don't hate the Cubs as much as I hate Minny, Detoilet and Cleveland, but it's close. A neighbor of mine is from Cleveland and the teams in that city have been **** on so many times, so I'm trying to put my hatred of the Jndjans aside for a postseason because that city needs something to cheer for. They haven't won anything since the 50s. I don't condone their treatment of Thome, but I'm doing it for my neighbor mostly. At least Chicago had the Bulls and the '85 Bears. Cleveland has had NOTHING.

russ99
09-25-2007, 02:59 PM
Nice article by Roeper.

Still, I'm holding out hope that the Cubs will still blow it. :tongue:

The only good thing is that I'm on vacation all next week, and if the Cubs do win the division, they'll likely be eliminated by the time I get back a week from next Monday, and I won't have to deal with gloating by my annoying Cub-fan co-workers.

PatK
09-25-2007, 03:51 PM
Nice article by Roeper.

Still, I'm holding out hope that the Cubs will still blow it. :tongue:

The only good thing is that I'm on vacation all next week, and if the Cubs do win the division, they'll likely be eliminated by the time I get back a week from next Monday, and I won't have to deal with gloating by my annoying Cub-fan co-workers.

Why would they have anything to gloat about? They haven't won anything yet. Hell, they haven't even clinched yet as I am typing this.

TDog
09-25-2007, 03:53 PM
Bull****.

It's either that or leave town. The Cubs don't need to win to draw fans. Call their fans sheep if you will. Complain that it's not about the baseball. Carry on about how it was different in the 1950s and 1960s or even pre-1984. But the fact remains that the Cubs don't need to win. If you read business journals, you will find some people who say the team's value would drop if they did win. Certainly, a winning Cubs organization would probably be less profitable if the team didn't have to worry about competition from the White Sox, which in 2005 woke people up to the fact that they don't have to be losers because they live in Chicago.

The White Sox don't draw fans if they aren't winning, or at least make the promise to win. When the Cubs are winning, even a White Sox promise doesn't mean much.

From a business perspective, the Cubs could forgo short-term profits to drive the White Sox out of town. Then the team wouldn't have to win. When Delta came into Juneau, Alaska, a few years ago offering affordable airfare, Alaska Airlines cut its fares and lost money until they drove Delta (maybe it was Continental, that was some time ago) out of town so they could gouge the local population in need of an occasional trip out of their inaccessible-by-road city.

The Sox are run by businessmen. They know how this works.

rdwj
09-25-2007, 03:58 PM
From a business perspective, the Cubs could forgo short-term profits to drive the White Sox out of town. Then the team wouldn't have to win. When Delta came into Juneau, Alaska, a few years ago offering affordable airfare, Alaska Airlines cut its fares and lost money until they drove Delta (maybe it was Continental, that was some time ago) out of town so they could gouge the local population in need of an occasional trip out of their inaccessible-by-road city.

The Sox are run by businessmen. They know how this works.

It's not even remotely close to the same market. How could they drive the Sox out of town? Cut prices? Guess what - there are only 81 home games and most of them sell out anyway. They can't add games or seats, so what are they gonna do?

TDog
09-25-2007, 05:18 PM
It's not even remotely close to the same market. How could they drive the Sox out of town? Cut prices? Guess what - there are only 81 home games and most of them sell out anyway. They can't add games or seats, so what are they gonna do?

The Cubs were almost successful in driving the Sox out of town in the 1960s and 1970s, in an era when the teams made it a point not to play at the same time. The Cubs now frequently schedule night games during the week when the Sox also are playing at night.

In a one-market city, teams are not held to another team's standard of success. The Cubs sell out every game, but their payroll has increased since the White Sox won the World Series. For that matter, the White Sox have a higher payroll this year then they have ever had. The original point I was responding to was the point about the Cubs fans being grateful to the Sox for putting them in a position where they had to win games. Without the competition from the Sox, the Cubs ownership would have been content to occasionally contend at a lower cost.

spiffie
09-25-2007, 05:40 PM
The Cubs were almost successful in driving the Sox out of town in the 1960s and 1970s, in an era when the teams made it a point not to play at the same time. The Cubs now frequently schedule night games during the week when the Sox also are playing at night.

In a one-market city, teams are not held to another team's standard of success. The Cubs sell out every game, but their payroll has increased since the White Sox won the World Series. For that matter, the White Sox have a higher payroll this year then they have ever had. The original point I was responding to was the point about the Cubs fans being grateful to the Sox for putting them in a position where they had to win games. Without the competition from the Sox, the Cubs ownership would have been content to occasionally contend at a lower cost.
That was also an era in which the team relied almost entirely on gate revenue to pay the bills. In this era, where things like ownership of CSN, and the national tv deals, and the money from MLB advanced media, etc. comprise the majority of the team's income it seems like it would be nearly impossible to drive a team out of a major market through any means short of stationing people outside the gates of USCF and offering people money not to go to Sox games.

Lip Man 1
09-25-2007, 08:07 PM
A large part of the reason the Sox almost left town in the 60's was not the Cubs (although they were a small part of it) but the fact that when the race riots occured in 1966, 1967, 1968 Comiskey Park and the "area" was not considered safe.

That drove fans from the suburbs and other areas of Chicago away from the park and the team. Many believed the hype and weren't about to take that chance.

Lip

Railsplitter
09-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Let us not forget the Cable Carpetbaggers, who regard Wrigley as some kind of tourist attraction.

kevin57
09-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Maybe I'm missing this Cubs fever, but even my brother, who is as rabid and hence stupid a Cub fan as can be found, is being pretty subdued about their success.

I think it's because the dashed hopes of '03 still scar their collective memories but also even in their dullness they realize they are not bringing much to post-season play.

chisoxfanatic
09-25-2007, 11:14 PM
White Sox fans may complain about Cubs coverage but in New York the Yankees get twice as much coverage as the Mets ( Newsday the exception )

Mets fans are in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island

Yankees fans are in Manhattan, Bronx, Northern Jersey, Westchester and upstate plus Connecticut.

Mets have little support outside the city and Long Island.

Your comparison doesn't belong here. There's a HUGE difference. You see, the Yankees are the most successful franchise in the history of sports. The Mets haven't even come close to their storiedness or their success. The Yankees have EARNED all of the publicity they get. Meanwhile, the Cubs haven't won a single championship in 99 years and have had a history of being pretty ****ty, yet the media's always all "ga ga" over them! THEY haven't *earned* anything! HUGE difference!

2005 was a huge way of saying "screw you!" to the media, and was it ever pretty!

asindc
09-25-2007, 11:16 PM
"I used to be that guy, but no more. For one thing, the Sox already got there first, so no matter when the Cubs finally win a World Series, they'll be second in line. I know it'll be a bigger deal in the city and certainly nationwide than a Sox championship -- but we already have our framed ticket stubs and our 2005 memories. We got there first, and that can never change.
Beyond that, I have too many good friends (and even a family member or two) who are Cubs fans. If they get their moment, God bless 'em. They'll be going crazy in Wrigleyville and in every house that bleeds Cubbie blue. But for me it'll be about as exciting as the Cardinals beating the Tigers last year. I'd jump off the Sears Tower before I'd jump on the Cubs' bandwagon."

This part of his article says it for me perfectly. I remember the day after the Sox won it all, Dave Revsine (a North Side Sox fan) told Mike and Mike that what really matters for Sox fans about winning it, relative to Cubs fans, is that the Sox did so before the Cubs did. So no matter what happens this year, the Cubs fans know, and they know we know, it matters in Chicago. As Roeper said, that cannot be taken away.

Andy T Clown
09-25-2007, 11:24 PM
White Sox fans may complain about Cubs coverage but in New York the Yankees get twice as much coverage as the Mets ( Newsday the exception )

Mets fans are in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island

Yankees fans are in Manhattan, Bronx, Northern Jersey, Westchester and upstate plus Connecticut.

Mets have little support outside the city and Long Island.


The Yankees have earned that. The cubs have not earned anything. They are the product of great marketing by the cubune.

thomas35forever
09-25-2007, 11:27 PM
Great column by Roeper. I have to say he's correct about the team the Cubs have and what South Side pubs will be like when the Cubs are in the playoffs. He also stated what will be on the mind of Sox fans if the Cubs do the unthinkable. Cubs fans would make the argument that they won the more recent championship, but the White Sox put Chicago back on the baseball map. That said, God be with us as the North Siders make their push towards the postseason.

I should also add that Sox and the City is spot on the best Sox book I have ever read. Roeper is what we can call a true writer.

Navarro's Talent
09-26-2007, 01:42 AM
As many have already stated, we got our World Series Championship in 2005. Sox fans got to the promised land first, so there's really nothing the Cubs can do that will ever bother me at this point.

The Cubs haven't done anything yet, though. There's a great chance they'll be in the playoffs, but there are three teams they'll have to beat to win a championship. That's no easy task (unless you're on the '05 White Sox :cool:).

BainesHOF
09-26-2007, 03:16 AM
I've noticed the Tribune hasn't used any "choke" terminology in articles about the Cubs, as they did on every occasion possible during the 2005 White Sox run. I pretty much see nothing but glowing articles about how the fans are smart because they knew the Braves beating the Brewers on Sunday was a good thing, and did the tomahawk chop, or how the Cubs could easily run the table all the way to the World Series.

I'm waiting for the Trib to write a follow-up to Cubs fans cheering and giving Bobby Howry a standing ovation when they thought it was Kerry Wood coming into the game.

Yeah, those Cubs fans sure know their baseball.

Viva Medias B's
09-26-2007, 08:14 AM
...yet the media's always all "ga ga" over them! THEY haven't *earned* anything! HUGE difference!

That is what bothers me more than anything about this. At this specific stage in 2005, I don't recall the local media in general (as opposed to the sports media) going this hog wild over us. It seems that when we finally won the AL Pennant two years ago, the media thought "Gee, maybe we better pay some more attention to this."

johnr1note
09-26-2007, 09:55 AM
That is what bothers me more than anything about this. At this specific stage in 2005, I don't recall the local media in general (as opposed to the sports media) going this hog wild over us. It seems that when we finally won the AL Pennant two years ago, the media thought "Gee, maybe we better pay some more attention to this."

This is what bugs me as well. Its the condescending nature of Cub fans and the media supports that notion. Sure, its usually subtle, but its there. In 2005, as we closed in on the division title and in the early stages of the playoffs, we were expected to lose, or to choke, or to just play poorly. There was this sense of impending doom. Why? Because the White Sox have never really been a "good team," and therefore won't succeed. When the Cubs get close to winning the division, or make the post season (as they are on the edge of this now), the general response is cautious optimism -- yeah, they usually blow it, but its because of that "curse." Maybe the good fairy will touch with her magic wand this year, and we'll finally go all the way!

One of the things that I personally didn't find surprising was all the HATE and BITTERNESS that overflowed from Cubs fans when the Sox won it all on 05. Sox fans were the ones always characterized as "thugs" and "gangstas." Several friends of mine who are Cubs fans were upset because in essence, they always believed the one thing that would never happen is the Sox could never win it all before the Cubs would. The Cubs somehow "deserve" to win, while the Sox ... well, they were always the ugly stepsister. Now that ugly stepsister was the prom queen. They still can't get over it.

Many of you expressed that the White Sox 11-1 playoff run in 05 and the Cards supposed "sub par" champ last year have led Cubs fans to believe that all you have to do is make the post season, and the WS is a lock. My hopes is these delusional Cub fans will not be able to put that theory to the test.

Hitmen77
09-26-2007, 10:36 AM
That is what bothers me more than anything about this. At this specific stage in 2005, I don't recall the local media in general (as opposed to the sports media) going this hog wild over us. It seems that when we finally won the AL Pennant two years ago, the media thought "Gee, maybe we better pay some more attention to this."

I agree 100%.



One of the things that I personally didn't find surprising was all the HATE and BITTERNESS that overflowed from Cubs fans when the Sox won it all on 05. Sox fans were the ones always characterized as "thugs" and "gangstas." Several friends of mine who are Cubs fans were upset because in essence, they always believed the one thing that would never happen is the Sox could never win it all before the Cubs would. The Cubs somehow "deserve" to win, while the Sox ... well, they were always the ugly stepsister. Now that ugly stepsister was the prom queen. They still can't get over it.

Again, I totally agree. Cub fans were just oozing with sour grapes in 2005. Remember how all they talked about was attendance, TV ratings, and how the Sox "cheated" their way to an 11-1 postseason rout? Sheesh, the Sun-Times even ran an opinion column from a priest which spewed a bunch of hatred towards Sox fans.

The problem is that, unlike most rivalries (like Bears vs. Packers, NYY vs. Bos, U of M vs. Ohio St), Cub fans don't just hate the Sox - they just have absolutely no respect for the existence of our franchise or our fan base. Even in '05, they just pretended that no one cares about the Sox anyway. That's what I have enjoyed about seeing all the people around town wearing Sox stuff over the last few years - it just must just gall Cub fans to see so many "non existent" fans for a team that is "irrelevant".

SBSoxFan
09-26-2007, 10:49 AM
When the Cubs get close to winning the division, or make the post season (as they are on the edge of this now), the general response is cautious optimism -- yeah, they usually blow it, but its because of that "curse."

And the headline in my sports section this morning? "Curses! Cubs Stymied by Marlins"

Note the first word. :rolleyes:

Hokiesox
09-26-2007, 11:08 AM
It's obvious to us, yes. But to all the people who just assume that everybody in/from Chicago is a Cubs fan, it's not as obvious.

Especially for those of us from out of town. I can't even tell you how many people claim they don't even know the Sox exist! I've gotten so many, "you must have baseball fever because of Chicago..." comments that I want to puke every single time.

TommyJohn
09-26-2007, 11:41 AM
And the headline in my sports section this morning? "Curses! Cubs Stymied by Marlins"

Note the first word. :rolleyes:

Gee. Not "Choke Hold"?

SBSoxFan
09-26-2007, 12:55 PM
Gee. Not "Choke Hold"?

Choke hold? No, I would say their choke is just getting started. :praying:

WSox597
09-26-2007, 01:19 PM
I had some fun with a couple of Cub fans yesterday. I was tuning them up about it all being over for them, the Marlins are going to beat them just like in '03.

Damn if Dontrelle doesn't beat them. I was laughing most of the evening, even as our bullpen gacked up another game.

I think Cub fans are definitely wary of any insane celebrating at this point, at least those who know something about baseball. Unlike most of their fanbase.

Another of the Cub fans at work was bragging about their loyal fan base, always filling up the park no matter how the team was playing. He actually thought that was a positive thing. God, what sheep they are.

If you do that, management has zero incentive to better the team. I believe as somebody else said, that the Sox victory in 2005 lit a fire under these bozos to get better quickly.

Here's hoping it's one and done if they do get in. They seem to have a pretty good team, it pains me to say, but let's see what happens before the city goes nuts.

And anybody who believes in curses in 2007 has pudding for brains. Or something else of the same consistency.

alohafri
09-26-2007, 02:18 PM
I

I think Cub fans are definitely wary of any insane celebrating at this point, at least those who know something about baseball. Unlike most of their fanbase.

.

Not all of them. I was at work on Sunday at the golf course and the guy working in the pro shop had the Cubbie Celebration on and they were panning the crowd with the cameras. There were more than one sign that said "Cubs: 2007 World Champions" or something to that effect. As I tell my friends who are sCrUB fans...don't piss off the baseball gods.

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2007, 03:55 PM
That is what bothers me more than anything about this. At this specific stage in 2005, I don't recall the local media in general (as opposed to the sports media) going this hog wild over us. It seems that when we finally won the AL Pennant two years ago, the media thought "Gee, maybe we better pay some more attention to this."

I agree with you completely.

This morning on NBC 5 News, one of the top stories was how the city is preparing for a Cubs Celebration... and they haven't even won anything yet! They reported that bars in & around Wrigleyville are starting to serve drinks in plastic cups today (the earliest they can even clinch is tomorrow night...) and listed the streets that will be closed, in preparation for the pandemonium.

At this time two years ago, as far as the media was concerned, the choke job was on for the Sox, and I don't remember hearing about how the city was preparing for the celebration for them....

chisoxmike
09-26-2007, 04:06 PM
I agree with you completely.

This morning on NBC 5 News, one of the top stories was how the city is preparing for a Cubs Celebration... and they haven't even won anything yet! They reported that bars in & around Wrigleyville are starting to serve drinks in plastic cups today (the earliest they can even clinch is tomorrow night...) and listed the streets that will be closed, in preparation for the pandemonium.

At this time two years ago, as far as the media was concerned, the choke job was on for the Sox, and I don't remember hearing about how the city was preparing for the celebration for them....

:rolling:



The funniest thing is that this is all for them winning the division. Don't get me wrong, its a great accomplishment, for any team, certainly for one in Chicago. We all know playoff appearances don't happen often here for either side of town. (If you think about it, the White Sox are really a pathetic franchise. 8 postseason appearances in 106 years?!?)

Anyway, its funny to me that everyone blows their loads over the Cubs just getting there, while with the Sox, we expect them to be there (odds are they wont get there) and when they do, we exchange high fives, yell and scream for a bit, throw down a few beers...but we also know there is so much more work to be done...and the REAL celebrating comes in the playoffs.

WizardsofOzzie
09-26-2007, 05:27 PM
Not all of them. I was at work on Sunday at the golf course and the guy working in the pro shop had the Cubbie Celebration on and they were panning the crowd with the cameras. There were more than one sign that said "Cubs: 2007 World Champions" or something to that effect. As I tell my friends who are sCrUB fans...don't piss off the baseball gods.

It's fans like that, that encourage me to pray the Cubs continue to lose until that fan base pulls their heads out of their collective asses and realize that every year is not the year, curses don't exist...you've just had some really bad teams, and your team is not gods gift to the universe.

I agree with you completely.

This morning on NBC 5 News, one of the top stories was how the city is preparing for a Cubs Celebration... and they haven't even won anything yet! They reported that bars in & around Wrigleyville are starting to serve drinks in plastic cups today (the earliest they can even clinch is tomorrow night...) and listed the streets that will be closed, in preparation for the pandemonium.

At this time two years ago, as far as the media was concerned, the choke job was on for the Sox, and I don't remember hearing about how the city was preparing for the celebration for them....

I'm really glad I don't have to be up there to deal with all these asshats

LITTLE NELL
09-26-2007, 05:52 PM
I work in a country club pro shop down here in SW Florida and a few of the members are Flub fans and when they come in and gloat about this season I dont say anything, I just turn on my can opener that has the the last play of the 05 WS by John Rooney on it and just smile and say have a nice day.

Bill Naharodny
09-26-2007, 06:13 PM
:rolling:



The funniest thing is that this is all for them winning the division. Don't get me wrong, its a great accomplishment, for any team, certainly for one in Chicago. We all know playoff appearances don't happen often here for either side of town. (If you think about it, the White Sox are really a pathetic franchise. 8 postseason appearances in 106 years?!?)

Anyway, its funny to me that everyone blows their loads over the Cubs just getting there, while with the Sox, we expect them to be there (odds are they wont get there) and when they do, we exchange high fives, yell and scream for a bit, throw down a few beers...but we also know there is so much more work to be done...and the REAL celebrating comes in the playoffs.

This same thing happened when they won the division the last weekend of 2003, too. It had been since 1989 that the Cubs had won something, the media dopes outside the ballpark said, neglecting to mention their winning the wildcard in 1998, which itself was the subject of orgasmic media coverage saying THAT was the first thing the Cubs had won since 1989. So, uh, which was it -- 1998 or 2003? Not important, I guess.

And then, when the Cubs beat the Braves in the 2003 NLDS, the celebration was for their "winning the first post-season series since 1945." True -- but, of course, they were still only in the NLCS, which is actually right where they were in 1984 and 1989 -- and one step further away than in 1945 itself. Again -- not important, I guess.

But those anchors sure looked good sitting on their specially constructed platforms at Clark and Addison.

PatK
09-26-2007, 06:42 PM
A lot of the sentiments here echo mine 100%.

I'm a big boy. I can admit that the Sox are terrible this year and that the Cubs have a better team.

But last time I checked, it's September 26th. The Cubs haven't made the playoffs at this time. Yet, the celebrations have already begun.

I remember two years ago like yesterday. I sure as hell don't recall many Sox fans saying we won ANYTHING. And we certainly weren't pointing towards the Cubs losing record to their fans.

No, we were like "First, we make the playoffs". And when we did, it was "We haven't won anything yet, we have to win this series."

All the while, the local media focused on everything negative about the Sox team, park, location, and the fans.

There were very few, if any, "feel good" stories about the Sox. And in the end, after the Sox won, we STILL got negative press.

The ratings weren't high enough was one thing I kept hearing about. But if I recall correctly, the Sox WS Game 2 put up better numbers than the Bears game, the team that is not only the overwhelmingly favorite in the city, but also on the night of the 20th year reunion on the "biggest" championship team in Chicago- the '85 Bears.

Rodney Dangerfield's tagline was "I don't get no respect". A lot of people say you have to earn respect.

We earned it. We know it. To hell with anyone who thinks otherwise.

WizardsofOzzie
09-26-2007, 08:07 PM
A lot of the sentiments here echo mine 100%.

I'm a big boy. I can admit that the Sox are terrible this year and that the Cubs have a better team.

But last time I checked, it's September 26th. The Cubs haven't made the playoffs at this time. Yet, the celebrations have already begun.

I remember two years ago like yesterday. I sure as hell don't recall many Sox fans saying we won ANYTHING. And we certainly weren't pointing towards the Cubs losing record to their fans.

No, we were like "First, we make the playoffs". And when we did, it was "We haven't won anything yet, we have to win this series."

All the while, the local media focused on everything negative about the Sox team, park, location, and the fans.

There were very few, if any, "feel good" stories about the Sox. And in the end, after the Sox won, we STILL got negative press.

The ratings weren't high enough was one thing I kept hearing about. But if I recall correctly, the Sox WS Game 2 put up better numbers than the Bears game, the team that is not only the overwhelmingly favorite in the city, but also on the night of the 20th year reunion on the "biggest" championship team in Chicago- the '85 Bears.

Rodney Dangerfield's tagline was "I don't get no respect". A lot of people say you have to earn respect.

We earned it. We know it. To hell with anyone who thinks otherwise.

And this is why Sox fans were more tolerable than Cubs fans. Had my doubts through most of the playoffs with the fear that the massive landslide that nearly kept us out of the playoffs would creep back up on us. Thank god it never did :bandance:

ChiSoxGirl
09-26-2007, 09:44 PM
I'm really glad I don't have to be up there to deal with all these asshats

That's definitely one of the advantages you have by living where you do! The only thing you're missing out on is potential aggravation. :rolleyes:

asindc
09-27-2007, 10:17 AM
That's definitely one of the advantages you have by living where you do! The only thing you're missing out on is potential aggravation. :rolleyes:

I must agree with this statement. I've lived here in the DC area for 23 years now, and it seems to have gotten much worse since I've been out here. Over the years, my brother, who lives in the Chicago area, has expressed exasperation with my nonchalant attitude towards the Cubs. Our father is a Cubs fan, so I can tolerate seeing them win it all for him, now that we have shown them how!:cool:

But I think if I did live there, I might be more like my brother, who just wishes them misfortune, despite my father's leanings.

Moses_Scurry
09-27-2007, 11:09 AM
It is so unbelievably hard to win a world series, especially since 1995 when they added the wildcard. If you think about it, how many good Seattle Mariner teams including one that won 116 games even made the world series?! Houston has been to the post season 8 or 9 times in the last 20 years and never won one. San Diego and Cleveland have been to the post season numerous times without winning one. Facts like that just make me appreciate 2005 so much more because of how rare it truly is unless you are a Yankee fan. No other teams have more than 2 championships since 1980, only 5 non-teams (Fla, Minn, Tor, StL, LA dodgers) even have 2 since 1980. Many teams don't have any.

I love the 2005 season all the more because of this. I think if the Sox had made it and lost to the Astros, I would not have seen it as a positive season that came up short. My dominating thought would have been "sheesh, how many more years am I going to have to wait just to see them make it again? Will they even win one before I die?"

Cub fans can be happy for winning the division. Hell, they won 66 games last year. They should celebrate some. But, without the ring, they won't have really accomplished anything. It may be another 10 years before they make the playoffs again, and in that time more Cub fans will go to their grave without seeing a championship. I would be happy for the true fans if they do win. I have a few friends that fall in that category. I can say that now that I have seen this amazing, near-impossible accomplishment from my team.

palehozenychicty
09-27-2007, 11:15 AM
The Yankees have bought that. The cubs have not earned anything. They are the product of great marketing by the cubune.

Fixed it for you.

SOXPHILE
09-27-2007, 05:57 PM
I love the 2005 season all the more because of this. I think if the Sox had made it and lost to the Astros, I would not have seen it as a positive season that came up short. My dominating thought would have been "sheesh, how many more years am I going to have to wait just to see them make it again? Will they even win one before I die?"

Cub fans can be happy for winning the division. Hell, they won 66 games last year. They should celebrate some. But, without the ring, they won't have really accomplished anything. It may be another 10 years before they make the playoffs again, and in that time more Cub fans will go to their grave without seeing a championship. I would be happy for the true fans if they do win. I have a few friends that fall in that category. I can say that now that I have seen this amazing, near-impossible accomplishment from my team.

Good point. I always tell people, from the moment pitchers and catchers report in the middle of February, and spring training starts going full speed in March, the entire reason for all the players in all the camps, is to get to, and WIN the World Series. That's the point of the season. That's why I laughed at all the Cub fans who used to walk around with the "Wild Card Champions" shirts, even more so after they got bounced in 3 straight by the Braves. Congratulations guys, your team played a full 162 season, to gain the right to play a 163rd regular season tie breaking game, to gain the right to play and lose 3 more games. Same thing will happen this year. If by some miracle, the Cubs blow it and miss the post season, we'll be told it was "a wild ride, a fun season, WEEEE !". If they get in and get knocked around and out in the first round, we'll be treated to books about the "magical" 2007 season. Stupidest fans in the entire sports world.

Oblong
09-28-2007, 09:37 AM
I saw some earlier questions about how many people outside of Chicago read Roeper. I read every him every day and have for about 3 or 4 years. It's a fun column to read and I like it when he talks about Chicago specifically. (Like that long haired trench coat guy people see all the time downtown) When I finally visited in 2004 and 2005 I kept seeing things that were referenced in his columns over the years. It was like a Richard Roeper tour.

As for cubbies vs. Sox. Even before coming to this site last year I've always felt that most Sox fans were probably true baseball fans and that a large number of cubbie fans were just people out to have a good time and to be a part of the "IN" thing. Consider it a blessing to have them because it helps divert the riff raff that comes along when a team gets very good. If I see someone in a white sox hat or shirt, I'm reasonably assured that the person is a true fan and loves the game of baseball. If I see someone in a cubs fan I figure he's just trying to be cool.

pierzynski07
09-29-2007, 01:47 AM
That's why I laughed at all the Cub fans who used to walk around with the "Wild Card Champions" shirts, even more so after they got bounced in 3 straight by the Braves. Congratulations guys, your team played a full 162 season, to gain the right to play a 163rd regular season tie breaking game, to gain the right to play and lose 3 more games.

:?: I've seen many Sox fans wear "2000 AL Central Champions" shirts and hats, including as recently as 2006.

Is it just me, or has it been agreed that baseball has only existed in Chicago for the last, or, 5-10 years?

southside rocks
09-29-2007, 09:01 AM
Richard Roeper has a great column (http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/572718,CST-NWS-roep25.article) in todays Sun Times.



Roeper really nailed it with this column, much as he did with his book (http://www.amazon.com/Sox-City-Affair-Heartbreak-Wizards/dp/1556526792/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7382333-5468757?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190723513&sr=8-1) about his life as a Sox fan and enjoying the '05 Championship.

Excellent column, and he's absolutely right -- here on the south side there's a whole lot of nothin' going on with respect to the Cubs. :D:

soxinem1
09-29-2007, 10:03 AM
http://homerderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/hawk-and-dj.jpg

'I LOVE Richard Roeper!!!!!! And the anti-bandwagon fan brigade'