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View Full Version : Do you guys feel comfortable...?


JermaineDye05
09-22-2007, 12:27 PM
With Danny Richar as our starting 2B in 2008, assuming the white sox don't sign another middle infielder. He appears to be an above average 2B with a very good arm, he's quick and now he's been showing he can hit, in September he's hitting .295 with 6 2B 2 3B and 3 HR (this is including todays game so far). So do you guys think he could be good enough to be the WS everyday 2B in 2008 or do the Sox need to sign another middle infielder this offseason?

TDog
09-22-2007, 12:40 PM
With Danny Richar as our starting 2B in 2008, assuming the white sox don't sign another middle infielder. He appears to be an above average 2B with a very good arm, he's quick and now he's been showing he can hit, in September he's hitting .295 with 6 2B 2 3B and 3 HR (this is including todays game so far). So do you guys think he could be good enough to be the WS everyday 2B in 2008 or do the Sox need to sign another middle infielder this offseason?

You don't know what you're getting with most rookies, and Danny Richar falls into that category. Defensively, he looks like he could help the Sox win in 2008. Second base is a good position for rookies who aren't expected to hit. Richar looks like he could hit well enough that he could be an important part of the offense, but rookie stats, especially rookie September stats can be full of false promise.

The White Sox are probably encouraged enough with Richar's play that they won't be worried about second base this off season. Backup catching, shortstop center field and pitching are other up-the-middle stories.

WhiteSox5187
09-22-2007, 12:45 PM
You don't know what you're getting with most rookies, and Danny Richar falls into that category. Defensively, he looks like he could help the Sox win in 2008. Second base is a good position for rookies who aren't expected to hit. Richar looks like he could hit well enough that he could be an important part of the offense, but rookie stats, especially rookie September stats can be full of false promise.

The White Sox are probably encouraged enough with Richar's play that they won't be worried about second base this off season. Backup catching, shortstop center field and pitching are other up-the-middle stories.
Well, I agree with this. I don't think that Richar is going to hurt us defensively (unlike our current shortstop), and I think that you more or less say "Well, anything we get out of him offensively is a bonus."

delben91
09-22-2007, 01:07 PM
Well, I agree with this. I don't think that Richar is going to hurt us defensively (unlike our current shortstop), and I think that you more or less say "Well, anything we get out of him offensively is a bonus."

I agree as well. Personally, I think that SS and the bullpen should be priorities 1 and 1a on KW's list. I would rank CF after both of those because the Sox at least have a few alternatives in Owens, or perhaps Sweeney (assuming Fields stays in LF and Crede returns at 3B). The Sox have no alternatives at SS (Gonzalez). And other than Jenks, Wasserman, and perhaps Thornton and Logan, the bullpen doesn't have anyone in the minors just begging to be called up.

So I say stick Richar in at 2B, and go find a SS and at least a pair of relievers. Upgrading in CF would be nice too, but SS just has to come first.

GregO23
09-22-2007, 02:07 PM
What putting Richar at SS and put Eckstein, Castillo, Iguchi, or Matsui at 2B. I do not want Eckstein to play SS with that terrible arm.

oeo
09-22-2007, 02:10 PM
You don't know what you're getting with most rookies, and Danny Richar falls into that category. Defensively, he looks like he could help the Sox win in 2008. Second base is a good position for rookies who aren't expected to hit. Richar looks like he could hit well enough that he could be an important part of the offense, but rookie stats, especially rookie September stats can be full of false promise.

The White Sox are probably encouraged enough with Richar's play that they won't be worried about second base this off season. Backup catching, shortstop center field and pitching are other up-the-middle stories.

Back-up catching? Are you serious?! Of all the holes this team has, we really need to go out and get that top-notch back-up catcher (which Toby Hall can be)? Wow...:o:

I really can't believe that so many of you think Toby Hall is this bad. Look at his career numbers...he's not another Chris Widger. He won't be replaced, and he doesn't need to be; he was playing hurt for God's sake, give the guy a break.

chisoxmike
09-22-2007, 02:11 PM
Only if he's the only question mark and CF, LF, and SS are filled with major league talent.

The Bullpen is the #1 priority this offseason, then CF, SS, and LF, in my opinion.

delben91
09-22-2007, 02:15 PM
Only if he's the only question mark and CF, LF, and SS are filled with major league talent.

The Bullpen is the #1 priority this offseason, then CF, SS, and LF, in my opinion.

Just out of curiosity, why do you rank CF over SS?

chisoxmike
09-22-2007, 02:16 PM
Just out of curiosity, why do you rank CF over SS?

I would rather have Uribe as our SS than Owens as our CF.

delben91
09-22-2007, 02:20 PM
I would rather have Uribe as our SS than Owens as our CF.

Fair enough. I'm the opposite. I've Uribe's been annoying me far longer than Owens has, so Uribe gets my first ticket out of town. :redneck

hi im skot
09-22-2007, 02:51 PM
Richar is only getting better as the season progresses. I think he'll be our starting second baseman in 2008, and I'm okay with that.

lostfan
09-22-2007, 02:54 PM
I would rather have Uribe as our SS than Owens as our CF.
No. Uribe is what he is (terrible). At least Owens hasn't refined his game yet and he'll probably never be as bad as he was in August again.

lostfan
09-22-2007, 02:55 PM
Richar is only getting better as the season progresses. I think he'll be our starting second baseman in 2008, and I'm okay with that.
Yeah, I really don't understand why all the people were jumping on him for hitting below the Mendoza line in his first 35 or so MLB ABs... I mean, that happens. He's hit at every level he's played at, IIRC, and he skipped AAA for all intents and purposes.

KRS1
09-22-2007, 03:03 PM
Yeah, I really don't understand why all the people were jumping on him for hitting below the Mendoza line in his first 35 or so MLB ABs... I mean, that happens. He's hit at every level he's played at, IIRC, and he skipped AAA for all intents and purposes.


I'm with ya on this. He has a really nice short swing, with very quick/strong hands through the zone. That right there is more than enough for me to want him to get as long a shot as possible. His plate presence has gone up, and he has made solid contact the whole way through, he was just hitting a lot of balls right at guys(mostly liners to LF). He's starting to jump on his pitches now, rather than wait and get into a hole where experienced big leaguers just overpowered him for a k.

Juice16
09-22-2007, 03:18 PM
No. Uribe is what he is (terrible). At least Owens hasn't refined his game yet and he'll probably never be as bad as he was in August again.

Uribe is not terrible. Names like Jeter, Eckstein, Lugo, Young, Furcal, Ramirez, Pena and Guillen all have more errors than him. He hits 20 Hrs a year and drives in runs. Yes his BA sucks but I can live with that in a number 9 hitter.

lostfan
09-22-2007, 03:23 PM
Uribe is not terrible. Names like Jeter, Eckstein, Lugo, Young, Furcal, Ramirez, Pena and Guillen all have more errors than him. He hits 20 Hrs a year and drives in runs. Yes his BA sucks but I can live with that in a number 9 hitter.
Uribe's defensive lapses and periods where his bat disappears altogether make me want to scream. I didn't used to be a Uribe hater but the first half of this year pushed me over the line.

JB98
09-22-2007, 04:07 PM
Like others here, I'm OK with Richar at 2B as long as SS and CF are upgraded. We have too many holes in this lineup. If Richar is our weakest hitter, I think we'll be OK. If we have two or three guys who are weaker than he is, we're in trouble.

lostfan
09-22-2007, 04:24 PM
Like others here, I'm OK with Richar at 2B as long as SS and CF are upgraded. We have too many holes in this lineup. If Richar is our weakest hitter, I think we'll be OK. If we have two or three guys who are weaker than he is, we're in trouble.
What if Owens plays next year in CF, and has no power and no arm but bats .280/.345 and continues to steal bases at the rate he is now which would probably add up to about 50-55? Not a stretch, considering right now he's been playing the last few weeks after his slump, and the 5 hits he got today brought him up to .267/.328. Acceptable or no?

soxfanatlanta
09-22-2007, 04:26 PM
It depends on what my expectations are for next year. If I think that they could compete for the post season, I'm not too sure I want a rookie playing any positions up the middle. On the other hand, if I think that .500 is a more realistic goal, then yes, why the hell not.

Right now I'm with the second option. But KW might pull some rabbits out of his hat this off season.

Tragg
09-22-2007, 05:13 PM
With Danny Richar as our starting 2B in 2008, assuming the white sox don't sign another middle infielder. He appears to be an above average 2B with a very good arm, he's quick and now he's been showing he can hit, in September he's hitting .295 with 6 2B 2 3B and 3 HR (this is including todays game so far). So do you guys think he could be good enough to be the WS everyday 2B in 2008 or do the Sox need to sign another middle infielder this offseason?
The Sox need 2 middle infielders: one to replace Uribe and another as a backup at 2b and SS (replacing both Cintron and Gonzalez). But Richar has done a nice job. He's got some power, plays good D and has decent plate discipline. Guillen has consistently put him in the bottom of the order with zero protection and he's done better than most on this team. He came onto this team with a high walk rate; I wish the Sox had a coach who could help him develop his plate discipline (that would help Owens immensely as well).

Tragg
09-22-2007, 05:17 PM
What if Owens plays next year in CF, and has no power and no arm but bats .280/.345 and continues to steal bases at the rate he is now which would probably add up to about 50-55? Not a stretch, considering right now he's been playing the last few weeks after his slump, and the 5 hits he got today brought him up to .267/.328. Acceptable or no?We can't afford him in center with that arm and defense...LF perhaps....if he hit .350 and stole 50 bases. Despite the importance of defense to the WS team, it obviously hasn't been very important to the Sox since then.
The other thing is his walk rate is low - a low walk rate casts doubt on his ability to replicate a few weeks over a season. Slap hits go through sometime; sometimes they don't. It's not that surprising that the slap hits are going through more under expanded roster time. Owens needs to walk more.

lostfan
09-22-2007, 05:58 PM
We can't afford him in center with that arm and defense...LF perhaps....if he hit .350 and stole 50 bases. Despite the importance of defense to the WS team, it obviously hasn't been very important to the Sox since then.
The other thing is his walk rate is low - a low walk rate casts doubt on his ability to replicate a few weeks over a season. Slap hits go through sometime; sometimes they don't. It's not that surprising that the slap hits are going through more under expanded roster time. Owens needs to walk more.
His defense and range is acceptable IMO but he throws like a girl. I wouldn't mind him playing LF if we had a legit CF but then that would leave Fields hanging if Crede actually comes back strong.

He's been walking more though. When he first came up he was barely walking at all, but in August you could see the difference in his OBP and BA (but his BA went waaaaaaay down because he struck out a Jim Thome-esque TWENTY-FIVE times) and he's pretty much kept that rate up since then without striking out nearly as much.

Daver
09-22-2007, 06:23 PM
Do you guys feel comfortable...?


Yes.

misty60481
09-22-2007, 06:34 PM
I think we definitley need a good hard hitting CF. Fields should already be our regular LF, if Crede comes back strong we are setting pretty good. I think Hall when he recovers from his injuries is a good back-up to AJ. Keep Erstead and try to get Mack back, both are good utility players. I dont know between Cintron and Ozuna, both had bad luck years. Neither is very good defensively. Fix the bull pen and keep Garland.

pmck003
09-22-2007, 07:01 PM
I think it really goes into a deeper question of what the Sox's philosophy is gonna be next year. I would be comfortable starting Fields, Richar, and Owens. If I was a fan on another team, I'd probably be hoping that we could get a starting Sox pitcher on the cheap.
Course I'd also be comfortable with better players. Yet, signing or trading for big name(s) and leaving holes never seems to pan out. Unless the Sox wanna sign a bunch of talent and increase the payroll by the millions. That would probably work like Boston and NY. Then I'd be the most comfortable with a new lazy boy.

TDog
09-23-2007, 01:28 AM
Back-up catching? Are you serious?! Of all the holes this team has, we really need to go out and get that top-notch back-up catcher (which Toby Hall can be)? Wow...:o:

I really can't believe that so many of you think Toby Hall is this bad. Look at his career numbers...he's not another Chris Widger. He won't be replaced, and he doesn't need to be; he was playing hurt for God's sake, give the guy a break.

A back-up catcher will be on the White Sox' shopping list this off-season. Signing Hall would have been a great move if he were not hurt in spring training. As things worked out, he has been ineffective offensively and defensively this season. There is no indication that he will be better next season. Hall's career numbers are irrelevant.

kittle42
09-23-2007, 05:45 AM
Like others here, I'm OK with Richar at 2B as long as SS and CF are upgraded.

Agreed, as well. If Owens, Richar, and Fields are all starting in April 2008, welcome to this year again.

kittle42
09-23-2007, 05:46 AM
A back-up catcher will be on the White Sox' shopping list this off-season. Signing Hall would have been a great move if he were not hurt in spring training. As things worked out, he has been ineffective offensively and defensively this season. There is no indication that he will be better next season. Hall's career numbers are irrelevant.

It's also the least important hole to fill on any team. Most teams don't even have an adequate starting catcher, let alone worrying about a backup. The sixth/seventh bullpen guy is more important.

Frontman
09-23-2007, 08:13 AM
Fair enough. I'm the opposite. I've Uribe's been annoying me far longer than Owens has, so Uribe gets my first ticket out of town. :redneck

Uribe at the plate makes me want to see him gone. Uribe in the field makes me want him to hit better.

If (and a lot of ifs, actually)

Crede returns healthy
We get a real MLB caliber CF
We get a far stronger bullpen (Jenks, Logan, Wasserman, and possibly Thorton are my only keepers there)
Danny Richar continues to grow and improve

I can handle Juan staying with that. If the lineup looked like this on opening day 2008, I would be a happy Sox fan

1 THE ELUSIVE CF
2 Fields
3 Thome
4 Konerko
5 Dye
6 Pierzynski
7 Crede
8 Uribe
9 Richar

The problem is that we don't have a MLB caliber CF in our system right now. None of the Free Agent prospects are leadoff men. So, unless Richar becomes a hitting god in winter ball, I think we need to look to SS as our lead off hitter; which means Juan has to be moved.





And Aaron Rowand returns to patrolling center. :wink:

delben91
09-23-2007, 08:27 AM
Agreed, as well. If Owens, Richar, and Fields are all starting in April 2008, welcome to this year again.

Well, I think there's a pretty good chance that at least Richar and Fields will both be starting in 2008. I desperately hope the Sox upgrade SS, the bullpen, and CF. I just don't know how many holes can actually be filled. Would adding LF to that list be doable?

LITTLE NELL
09-23-2007, 01:57 PM
Not with our Sox, we are 2nd in the A.L. in HRs but last in runs. We need a much better OBP if we are to win next year. I hope that Owens and Richar are the answer along with an high OBP shortstop. What scares me is what if Owens and Richar flop next year. Right now they are starting to look good so whats KW to do this off season, does he stay with these 2 kids or go the FA route?

JB98
09-23-2007, 11:05 PM
Not with our Sox, we are 2nd in the A.L. in HRs but last in runs. We need a much better OBP if we are to win next year. I hope that Owens and Richar are the answer along with an high OBP shortstop. What scares me is what if Owens and Richar flop next year. Right now they are starting to look good so whats KW to do this off season, does he stay with these 2 kids or go the FA route?

He can't stick with both if he wants to win next season. You can't fill your lineup with a bunch of second-year players and expect to contend. In addition, Fields-Owens-Dye is a very poor defensive outfield. I can live with Fields/Owens in LF, if we get somebody big-time to play CF, just as I can live with Richar at 2B, if we upgrade SS.

Sticking with all these kids = rebuilding in 2008.

Jaffar
09-24-2007, 08:07 AM
I might be the only one who thinks we'll see all 3 Fields/Richar/Owens next year only because I can't see KW getting a star CF and SS. I think it will be a step towards winning the AL Central but I just can't see KW putting a team together that will win 90+ games next year.

ondafarm
09-24-2007, 08:44 AM
I might be the only one who thinks we'll see all 3 Fields/Richar/Owens next year only because I can't see KW getting a star CF and SS. I think it will be a step towards winning the AL Central but I just can't see KW putting a team together that will win 90+ games next year.

I agree with your lineup prediction. Come Opening Day 2008 the White Sox lineup will feature Richar at 2B, Fields and Owens in CF. I'll also go out on a limb and predict Konerko at 1B, AJ at Catcher, Dye in RF and Thome at DH. Whether Crede is at 3B and Fields in LF or Fields at 3B and someone else, possibly Erstad in LF, is more up in the air. As to the SS, I consider that quite open.

GAsoxfan
09-24-2007, 09:26 AM
Uribe is not terrible. Names like Jeter, Eckstein, Lugo, Young, Furcal, Ramirez, Pena and Guillen all have more errors than him. He hits 20 Hrs a year and drives in runs. Yes his BA sucks but I can live with that in a number 9 hitter.

People always bring up Juan's HR numbers as if it justifies the fact that he's horrible at basically every other offensive facet of the game. Juan is exactly what is wrong with the Sox offensive approach. An undisciplined, low average, low OBP, all-or-nothing hitter. If Ozzie is serious about playing "Ozzie ball" next year, Uribe needs to go.

Also, I could possibly stomach Uribe if he was a young guy making $1-$2M a year, but he'll be 29 next spring and will be making $5M. Do you really want him for $5M? I sure hope the Sox don't. (Although the Sox picked up a $5M option for Juan Uribe Sr. (Jose Valentin) a few years ago, so they might do the same again.)

chisoxfanatic
09-24-2007, 01:00 PM
Yes, I am. As long as Uribe isn't part of that 6-4 combo, I'm fine.

Grzegorz
09-25-2007, 05:10 AM
People always bring up Juan's HR numbers as if it justifies the fact that he's horrible at basically every other offensive facet of the game. Juan is exactly what is wrong with the Sox offensive approach. An undisciplined, low average, low OBP, all-or-nothing hitter. If Ozzie is serious about playing "Ozzie ball" next year, Uribe needs to go.

Absolutely spot on; I do not want Uribe and his "all or nothing" approach to the game anywhere near this team in 2008.

Maybe Juan Uribe would shine if the Chicago White Sox fire Walker...

wassagstdu
09-25-2007, 06:56 AM
Juan is exactly what is wrong with the Sox offensive approach. An undisciplined, low average, low OBP, all-or-nothing hitter. If Ozzie is serious about playing "Ozzie ball" next year, Uribe needs to go.
Can you say "scapegoat?" So it is Uribe's fault that the Sox lineup is full of all-or-nothing hitters? Defense is a large part of "Ozzie ball" and the shortstop is the heart of the defense. Uribe is outstanding defensively and earns the right to be the weakest hitter in the lineup. 20 HR and 65 RBI is a bonus. Juan is not what is wrong with the Sox offensive approach. The Sox offensive approach is what is wrong with Juan.