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DC Sox Fan
09-22-2007, 12:22 PM
The first- and last "cookie cutter" stadium to host MLB- RFK stadium- will see its final baseball games this weekend.

RFK started the trend of utilitarian stadiums in 1961 and was followed by an exact copy- Fulton Co. in Atlanta, and several others. At least she never had turf- and the unique undulations of the cantilevered roof gave her some character.

It was a tremendous place to watch the Skins in action. The "We want Dallas" chants and bouncing stands before the '82 NFC championship game...

But it's terrible for baseball as all cookie-cutters are. Case in point- my view from the Nats' first ever home game- 2nd row from the top of the upper deck. When showing off my pictures, several folks commented "I've never seen the top of a foul pole before." Any outfield (all upper deck) seats guaranteed an obstructed view of the outfield below since you were so close to the field, and the new pressbox installed before the 05 season dropped so low it obscured view of flyballs from my usual lower deck seats.

The upper deck was as steep if not moreso than the much maligned cell's pre-renovations, and the lower deck was ridiculously shallow, moving you further away from the action.

But she brought baseball back to DC, so "the old girl" did her job well.

I won't shed a tear at the last game, and my stomach won't turn when they take her down, like when I went to Comiskey for the last time and saw the wrecking ball strike, and drove by as it languished for months on end in a slow, agonizing death. But I've had quite a few memories there the last few years and will always hold those dear. Cheers to you, Old Girl:

http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/e20770c2-4d0d-4dba-b4e9-abbc1fca9d28.jpg
http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/4441865a-0c3c-4a4c-8c84-5b22593302d0.jpg
Good article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/21/AR2007092101959.html
Another great one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/19/AR2007091902502.html?sub=AR

Fenway
09-22-2007, 01:18 PM
Went to my first game at RFK in 1969 and saw 2 teams that no longer exist, the Seattle Pilots vs the Senators. What I remember most ( and it is funny to say this now ) but I was shocked that ticket prices were almost double what Fenway charged as the lowest ticket in 1969 was $3

Went back 2 years ago and saw a Nationals game and RFK was showing her age badly. Yet my most vivid memory of that night were the dragon flies that swarmed all over the place. I guess the stadium is near a swamp and the lights attract them.

But my most vivid memory is going to a Pats-Redskins game there. There is nothing in the NFL that comes close to the noise generated when the Skins score and the Redskins band belts out

Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!

So if RFK is coming down where is DC United going to play?

Hendu
09-22-2007, 01:22 PM
I'm sure DC United will be playing there for a couple more years. In case you ever get nostalgic for those obstructed views and the shaking grandstand. :D:

ChiSoxRowand
09-22-2007, 01:30 PM
I actually like cookie cutters for some reason.

Fenway
09-22-2007, 01:31 PM
RFK played a major role in NFL history.

Believe it or not in 1961 the Redskins refused to sign black ballplayers and the owner famously said

"We'll start signing Negroes," Washington Redskins owner George Preston Marshall once quipped, "when the Harlem Globetrotters start signing whites."

In 1961 John Kennedy became President and tried to force the Redskins to sign black players using the new stadium as a wedge.

The impetus for the Redskins' desegregation order came from Interior Department lawyers. Early in March 1961 they informed Udall that the administration might be able "to force Marshall's hand" on the color ban. They pointed out that he had recently signed a 30-year lease to play all home games beginning October 1961 at D.C. Stadium, then under construction. Financed with public funds, the new $24 million stadium was located at Anacosta Flats, part of the National Capital Parks system. As the "residential landlord" of the parks area, the Interior Department could deny use of the stadium to any party practicing discriminatory hiring policies

The Redskins said they would draft a black player for the 1962 season and the government backed down for the 61 season and the following year the Redskins did sign black players.

http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/2002/0305/1346021.html (http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/2002/0305/1346021.html)

Fenway
09-22-2007, 01:53 PM
There are still 2 cookie cutter stadiums left

Shea Stadium which will bite the dust next year.

Rogers Centre ( Skydome ) can also be classified as a cookie cutter as they move seats around for Argonauts games

Hitmen77
09-22-2007, 02:59 PM
There are still 2 cookie cutter stadiums left

Shea Stadium which will bite the dust next year.

Rogers Centre ( Skydome ) can also be classified as a cookie cutter as they move seats around for Argonauts games

What about the Metrodome and the Oakland Colosseum?

Fenway
09-22-2007, 03:03 PM
What about the Metrodome and the Oakland Colosseum?

how could I forget those 2 beautiful stadiums

thomas35forever
09-22-2007, 03:20 PM
To me, Busch Stadium was the last cookie-cutter stadium to go. They all essentially had the same design, so I think it's only fair to classify them as that.

oeo
09-22-2007, 03:50 PM
http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/e20770c2-4d0d-4dba-b4e9-abbc1fca9d28.jpg
http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/4441865a-0c3c-4a4c-8c84-5b22593302d0.jpg
Good article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/21/AR2007092101959.html
Another great one:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/19/AR2007091902502.html?sub=AR

It looks like a dump on TV, but it doesn't look like TV does it justice.

soxinem1
09-22-2007, 03:59 PM
The first- and last "cookie cutter" stadium to host MLB- RFK stadium- will see its final baseball games this weekend.

RFK started the trend of utilitarian stadiums in 1961 and was followed by an exact copy- Fulton Co. in Atlanta, and several others. At least she never had turf- and the unique undulations of the cantilevered roof gave her some character.

But she brought baseball back to DC, so "the old girl" did her job well.

I won't shed a tear at the last game, and my stomach won't turn when they take her down, like when I went to Comiskey for the last time and saw the wrecking ball strike, and drove by as it languished for months on end in a slow, agonizing death. But I've had quite a few memories there the last few years and will always hold those dear. Cheers to you, Old Girl:

While I agree 100% with your observances, this may be one case where a stadium should not be refered to as a female, as Robert Kennedy was not one!:smile::smile:

Brian26
09-22-2007, 04:02 PM
My biggest RFK baseball-related memory was watching Luke Appling hit a homerun out of there in an old timer's exhibition game from the early 80's (must have been '83 or '84 and televised on NBC or ABC).

Brian26
09-22-2007, 04:03 PM
I was off a couple of years. Wikipedia says it's was '82:


On July 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_19), 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_in_baseball), Appling played in an old-timers' game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-timers%27_game) at RFK Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFK_Stadium) in Washington, DC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington%2C_DC). Appling, then 75 years old, hit a 250-foot home run (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_run) off Warren Spahn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Spahn). Spahn applauded him as he rounded the bases.

Railsplitter
09-22-2007, 07:17 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Bears 1984 playoff win the only post season game the Redskins lost in RFK?

DSpivack
09-22-2007, 11:29 PM
Went there wednesday for the first and last time. Just wanted to see it before the Nats move in their new park. As much of a dump as I thought it would be, but the Presidential Race is one of my favorite things in sports. :cool:

MeteorsSox4367
09-23-2007, 10:09 AM
I went to RFK in August to see the Nats and the Reds. Yeah, it's an old park that has seen its better days, but it was cool to take pictures and sit in the seats in the upper deck in the outfield where Frank Howard hit his home runs. When I was sitting in the seat in center, I said to myself, 'To hit one up here, he had to hit some bombs.'

For one of the games, we had seats in one of the old pressboxes between the plate and the Nats' dugout and that provided a great vantage point. It was just kinda cool to walk around an old ballpark that stunk like stale beer and think of all the teams and players (Sox-Senators, anyone?) who've played there over the years.

Hitmen77
09-23-2007, 11:53 AM
how could I forget those 2 beautiful stadiums

In addition, there are some baseball stadiums that aren't "cookie cutters", but are still terrible baseball parks. Specifically, the two Florida stadiums.

RFK will be replaced next year. Shea will be replaced in '09. Is the Twins new park a done deal? If so, the Dome will be replaced in a couple of years. I'm not sure how much of a done deal the new A's park is.

If all this goes through, come ~2011 the only teams that won't be in a well-liked baseball only facility will be Toronto, Tampa Bay, and Florida (and who knows what will happen to them).

Everyone else will be in either the two dumpy-but-historic cash cows (Bos, Flubs), the two popular 60s era parks (LA, LAA), and the rest will be in post-1990 ballparks.

Fenway
09-23-2007, 12:02 PM
In addition, there are some baseball stadiums that aren't "cookie cutters", but are still terrible baseball parks. Specifically, the two Florida stadiums.

RFK will be replaced next year. Shea will be replaced in '09. Is the Twins new park a done deal? If so, the Dome will be replaced in a couple of years. I'm not sure how much of a done deal the new A's park is.

If all this goes through, come ~2011 the only teams that won't be in a well-liked baseball only facility will be Toronto, Tampa Bay, and Florida (and who knows what will happen to them).

Everyone else will be in either the two dumpy-but-historic cash cows (Bos, Flubs), the two popular 60s era parks (LA, LAA), and the rest will be in post-1990 ballparks.

Twins have broken ground, A's all set. KC has no plans for a new park. Meanwhile I am stuck with Fenway.

DSpivack
09-23-2007, 12:23 PM
Twins have broken ground, A's all set. KC has no plans for a new park. Meanwhile I am stuck with Fenway.

Royals are remodeling, no? Or that deal never come through? Is Oakland definitely moving into that stadium plan in Fremont? I thought that was far from a done deal.

itsnotrequired
09-23-2007, 12:35 PM
Royals are remodeling, no? Or that deal never come through? Is Oakland definitely moving into that stadium plan in Fremont? I thought that was far from a done deal.

Kansas City renovations are a done deal.

soxinem1
09-23-2007, 12:39 PM
Twins have broken ground, A's all set. KC has no plans for a new park. Meanwhile I am stuck with Fenway.

And they don't need one, IMO. Royals Stadium was the nicest of those 70's parks. A little upgrading, sure, but the seating is nice, and the asthetics of the park are still good looking.

I still have problems believing that no one goes there, as I remember the days when they seemed to contend every year. I remember when KC used to draw well.

Even a great looking park looks like **** when no one shows up.

Daver
09-23-2007, 12:46 PM
Meanwhile I am stuck with Fenway.

Enjoy your turd.

The Dude
09-23-2007, 02:17 PM
Enjoy your turd.

I heard that it's a floater.:D:

DSpivack
09-23-2007, 02:40 PM
..And it's over. Nameless Nationals stadium here we come!

Hitmen77
09-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Twins have broken ground, A's all set. KC has no plans for a new park. Meanwhile I am stuck with Fenway.

Royals are remodeling, no? Or that deal never come through?

Kansas City renovations are a done deal.

And they don't need one, IMO. Royals Stadium was the nicest of those 70's parks. A little upgrading, sure, but the seating is nice, and the asthetics of the park are still good looking.


I forgot KC in my list of pre-1990 ballparks don't need to be replaced. The parks in LA, Anaheim, and KC are the exceptions by being great ballparks that were built during the "dark ages" of stadium design. The "Big A" was butchered when they converted it to multipurpose for the Rams, but remodeled nicely in the late 90s.

Yes, they are going to remodel Kauffman Stadium. It sounds like work begins on the ballpark next month and will be done by opening day 2009:
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/ballpark/renovations.jsp

Brian26
09-23-2007, 05:49 PM
Yes, they are going to remodel Kauffman Stadium. It sounds like work begins on the ballpark next month and will be done by opening day 2009:
http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/ballpark/renovations.jsp

I'm not a big fan of KC's idea of putting seats in the outfield area where the grass and fountains currently are. I always thought the lack of seats out there made that park unique, and visually it was beautiful.

Hitmen77
09-23-2007, 11:05 PM
I'm not a big fan of KC's idea of putting seats in the outfield area where the grass and fountains currently are. I always thought the lack of seats out there made that park unique, and visually it was beautiful.

I don't have a problem with the seats there. I like the visual effect of having fans close to the action. Plus, for the Royals, it's an opportunity for them to add seats that are attractive to fans because of their location.

Based on the artist renderings, it doesn't look like the seats will take up the entire outfield area. So, perhaps the grass and fountains will remain behind the seats.

Fenway
09-24-2007, 11:41 AM
They fired Youppi! for that mascot???

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070923/capt.e168d7237682470bb2050d5c9f9ef003.phillies_nat ionals_baseball_rfk108.jpg

DSpivack
09-24-2007, 12:37 PM
They fired Youppi! for that mascot???

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070923/capt.e168d7237682470bb2050d5c9f9ef003.phillies_nat ionals_baseball_rfk108.jpg

"Screech", who snubbed one of my friends (female) for a picture. My college mascot was named Screech (our nickname was the Eagles) and looked a heck of a lot better. The Presidents (Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson, and Teddy Roosevelt, who has never won the race) are a much better group of mascots.

DC Sox Fan
09-27-2007, 05:04 PM
Best moment of the game IMO was the same folks who showed up for the game in '71 made an updated version of their original banner voicing their thoughts on Sens owner Bob Short, who was moving the team to Minneapolis and renaming them the Twins the following year. No riots this time, just looking forward to a new, more enjoyable stadium that's 2.25 miles southwest instead of 1200 miles to the southwest.


1971, final sens game:
http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4065/3042/320/151647/may03_shortstinks.jpg
Sunday, same place, same folks unfurling:(no misspells, just tearing of the bottom of the banner)
http://lh3.google.com/curlywfan/Rvb8kZyPlhI/AAAAAAAAHPI/BeaNHzXGYxg/IMG_4255.JPG?imgmax=640
Thread discussing it: http://www.ballparkguys.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=014570

gregoriop
09-27-2007, 05:35 PM
Best moment of the game IMO was the same folks who showed up for the game in '71 made an updated version of their original banner voicing their thoughts on Sens owner Bob Short


This is seriously awesome.

Hokiesox
09-27-2007, 07:06 PM
Fenway:

The United are still playing at RFK. I believe they are fighting for a soccer only stadium to be built.

Here's their latest proposal:

http://web.mlsnet.com/t103/stadium/poplar_point/

FarWestChicago
09-27-2007, 07:11 PM
Best moment of the game IMO was the same folks who showed up for the game in '71 made an updated version of their original banner voicing their thoughts on Sens owner Bob Short, who was moving the team to Minneapolis and renaming them the Twins the following year. No riots this time, just looking forward to a new, more enjoyable stadium that's 2.25 miles southwest instead of 1200 miles to the southwest.That is quite good. :thumbsup:

DSpivack
09-27-2007, 07:58 PM
Fenway:

The United are still playing at RFK. I believe they are fighting for a soccer only stadium to be built.

Here's their latest proposal:

http://web.mlsnet.com/t103/stadium/poplar_point/

I believe that deal fell through, and they're back to the drawing board. Can't wait to see the Fire at RFK in a few weeks!

mark2olson
09-27-2007, 08:41 PM
Sunday, same place, same folks unfurling:(no misspells, just tearing of the bottom of the banner)

This was absolutely classic! A sense of history! Very well done.

Incidentally, I've stayed down in the area near the new ball park on business, it looks as though they are investing some serious money in the area. There is a ton of new construction going on. It seems as though they are building and renovating from the new stadium up to the Navy Yard.

Hitmen77
09-27-2007, 08:44 PM
Best moment of the game IMO was the same folks who showed up for the game in '71 made an updated version of their original banner voicing their thoughts on Sens owner Bob Short, who was moving the team to Minneapolis and renaming them the Twins the following year. No riots this time, just looking forward to a new, more enjoyable stadium that's 2.25 miles southwest instead of 1200 miles to the southwest.


1971, final sens game:

Sunday, same place, same folks unfurling:(no misspells, just tearing of the bottom of the banner)

Thread discussing it: http://www.ballparkguys.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=41;t=014570


That's pretty funny. By the way, after '71 the Senators moved to Texas to become the Rangers. It was the original Senators who moved to Minnesota after 1960. (sorry to nitpick:wink:)

DC Sox Fan
09-27-2007, 10:06 PM
That's pretty funny. By the way, after '71 the Senators moved to Texas to become the Rangers. It was the original Senators who moved to Minnesota after 1960. (sorry to nitpick:wink:)

No apologies, Hitmen... you're absolutely correct :gulp: got a little carried away in trying to express the awesomeness of the moment :supernana:

DC Sox Fan
09-27-2007, 10:16 PM
But my most vivid memory is going to a Pats-Redskins game there. There is nothing in the NFL that comes close to the noise generated when the Skins score and the Redskins band belts out

Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!
Run or pass and score -- we want a lot more!
Beat 'em, Swamp 'em,
Touchdown! -- Let the points soar!
Fight on, fight on 'Til you have won
Sons of Wash-ing-ton. Rah!, Rah!, Rah!
Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!
Braves on the Warpath!
Fight for old D.C.!


Got engaged this past weekend, and I've already told my fiancee (an avid Eagles fan) that this will be the first dance at our reception:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtRhq1AWANE

Viva Medias B's
09-27-2007, 11:31 PM
Got engaged this past weekend, and I've already told my fiancee (an avid Eagles fan) that this will be the first dance at our reception:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtRhq1AWANE

Not to tangent this thread, but is Washington the only NFL team that has a marching band. And does the Washington marching band basically do the same things at Redskins games that a college marching band would do at a college football game?

Fenway
09-28-2007, 07:18 AM
Not to tangent this thread, but is Washington the only NFL team that has a marching band. And does the Washington marching band basically do the same things at Redskins games that a college marching band would do at a college football game?

The Colts had a band in Baltimore and I *think* the Ravens adopted them. The name Redskins can be traced back to their Boston days. They started as the football Braves ane played at Braves Field and when they moved to Fenway they became the RED(sox)skins. Even with a good team they drew poorly and moved to DC