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balke
09-21-2007, 10:24 AM
The season is over as far as postseason and hope. What about leaving the season with some small encouragement for the future? What about showing the fans that the Old Sox are coming back next season, and not these losers?

I think the Twins series is always the best. They've ruined a few playoffs shots for the Sox in recent years, and Santana v. Buehrle is always fun to watch. I think this is the last series that means anything to the Sox. If they don't put up a fight here, Kenny can fire at will as far as I'm concerned, and burn the thing to the ground. Who's with me?

Cuck_The_Fubs
09-21-2007, 12:03 PM
No matter how bad, how awfully pathetic the white sox have been this year, beating the twins is always a pleasure. I expect nothing below a sweep!
Go Sox! :bandance:
:gulp:

BRDSR
09-21-2007, 12:05 PM
LOL, did anyone else laugh out loud when they saw this thread title in the Clubhouse? We had similar thread titles in September '05 when the division lead was slipping through our fingers. Even those weren't, for the most part, must-win series.

The Sox haven't had a single must-win series all season. Sad but true.

chisoxmike
09-21-2007, 12:09 PM
While I voted that this series is no different than any other meaningless series we've played, sweeping these jagbags would be nice.

my5thbench
09-21-2007, 12:31 PM
I'm for about 35 runs against the twinkies

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 12:42 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick. I edited the poll options and voted my opinion...

rdwj
09-21-2007, 12:47 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick. I edited the poll options and voted my opinion...

As much as I hate to admit it, I'm in the same boat. May as well build for the future with a good pick

itsnotrequired
09-21-2007, 01:06 PM
The Sox haven't had a single must-win series all season. Sad but true.

The September 7-9 series against the Twins was must-win as losing meant the Sox were mathematically eliminated from the postseason. The Sox lost on Sunday and were gone.

Hitmen77
09-21-2007, 01:20 PM
I never really root for the Sox to lose, but whether they win or lose this series is really pointless. I wouldn't mind getting a great player in the draft, but there's no guarantee that high picks will pan out.

For the remaining games, I'd like to see: continued good at bats from Fields and Richar, good outings by all of our starters but especially Floyd (building on his recent success) and Contreras (raise his trade value as much as possible).

As far as Uribe, Cintron, Bukvich, Meyers, Gonzalez, and some others go, I really don't care. I just hope they are off the team by next April.

spiffie
09-21-2007, 01:26 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick. I edited the poll options and voted my opinion...
No fair, I would have voted for that, but all I had was "who cares?" as my best option.

At this point I'm hoping not to see another win the rest of the year. I want Andy Gonzalez batting cleanup and Minnie Minoso playing CF.

alohafri
09-21-2007, 01:37 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick.

I don't even think good draft positioning will help. Who have the Sox drafted in the past few years that have done anything?

chisoxmike
09-21-2007, 01:40 PM
The September 7-9 series against the Twins was must-win as losing meant the Sox were mathematically eliminated from the postseason. The Sox lost on Sunday and were gone.

Yeah, because we all had hopes that they were going to put together a run at that point.

:party:

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 01:43 PM
I don't even think good draft positioning will help. Who have the Sox drafted in the past few years that have done anything?

Now hang on there, when's the last time they had a draft pick in the top 5 or possbly 1st? 1989 season, 1990 draft sounds about right and I think they landed Frank and Robin that year...

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 01:44 PM
No fair, I would have voted for that, but all I had was "who cares?" as my best option.

At this point I'm hoping not to see another win the rest of the year. I want Andy Gonzalez batting cleanup and Minnie Minoso playing CF.

Fixed...

ondafarm
09-21-2007, 01:47 PM
Let's try to refine "Must Win". World War II was a "Must Win". Everything else is pretty much gravy. Having said that, I hate the Twinkies and beating them would be nice.

slavko
09-21-2007, 02:16 PM
Gotta see if the "two teams playing out the string after disappointing season" factor is more powerful than the "longtime enemy" factor. Emotions on the field will be at a fever pitch, I'm sure.

CLR01
09-21-2007, 02:37 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick. I edited the poll options and voted my opinion...

Agreed. There is no status in winning a few extra games and finishing with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th worst record. Besides the draft pick, what happens over the next 8 games means nothing about what will happen next year.

itsnotrequired
09-21-2007, 02:43 PM
Yeah, because we all had hopes that they were going to put together a run at that point.

:party:

Like it or not, it is a true statement. With 30 MLB teams and four from each league making the postseason, there are at most 22 "must-win" series for all teams. These are the series that will get a team tossed out of the season. Of course, a team winning it's must-win series means the next series is also a must-win.

balke
09-21-2007, 02:46 PM
Agreed. There is no status in winning a few extra games and finishing with the 2nd, 3rd or 4th worst record. Besides the draft pick, what happens over the next 8 games means nothing about what will happen next year.

This is true. I'd really like them to go out fighting against the Twins though. If they really want the draft pick, they can forfeit the games. Show the fans that if you did care, you could win. Show something, these guys are complete losers collectively. Worse than KC? I didn't know that term existed.

Santana v. Buehrle, I always wanna see Buehrle win. I guess maybe I just care about this game more than the series collectively though. I'll be angry if I watch the game and they bring the bullpen in the game in the 5th inning or something dumb like that. People still wanna see good baseball.

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 02:47 PM
Like it or not, it is a true statement. With 30 MLB teams and four from each league making the postseason, there are at most 22 "must-win" series for all teams. These are the series that will get a team tossed out of the season. Of course, a team winning it's must-win series means the next series is also a must-win.

So wait, there's actually more than 22? In fact The Sox by themselves had at least 7 must sweep series at some point this year. After a while that kind of sucks the life out of ya...

JB98
09-21-2007, 02:50 PM
The main thing I want to see finishing up the string is good performances from our pitchers. Even though we only won two of four in KC, all four games featured good starting pitching by the Sox. If all these guys can finish up the year throwing the ball well, it gives the Sox more options in what they can do this offseason.

Wins and losses are meaningless at this point. Whether we finish fourth or fifth, the season is a total failure.

thegooch
09-21-2007, 02:53 PM
I voted for the draft pick. However, upon further consideration I think 'd like to change my vote. A good draft pick increases the chances that the player will have Scott Boras as an agent, and the Sox won't negotiate with him. Therefore, a good draft pick means very little for the sox.

itsnotrequired
09-21-2007, 02:54 PM
So wait, there's actually more than 22? In fact The Sox by themselves had at least 7 must sweep series at some point this year. After a while that kind of sucks the life out of ya...

Correct, there can be more than 22. If a team is in a must-win series, they are on the brink of elimination. If they win the first one, the next one automatically becomes must-win. Otherwise, the first wouldn't have been a must-win as they could have lost the first one and won the next and still be in the same boat.

The Sox never had a second must-win series since they lost their first one.

In many cases, the must-win series turns into a must-sweep series by default.

balke
09-21-2007, 03:05 PM
I like beating the twinkees as much as anyone, but this season is WAY past over and it's time to play for the draft pick. I edited the poll options and voted my opinion...

I'm afraid of getting a higher draft pick right now. I can see the Sox getting #1 overall, and Kenny just saying "I love Jordan Danks" and picking him because he's chased him for so long. I mean if Danks is the best bet, that's great... but I'm sure Kenny's pick is going to cause controversy. Wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another pitcher.

my5thbench
09-21-2007, 03:06 PM
yea next September

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 03:11 PM
I'm afraid of getting a higher draft pick right now. I can see the Sox getting #1 overall, and Kenny just saying "I love Jordan Danks" and picking him because he's chased him for so long. I mean if Danks is the best bet, that's great... but I'm sure Kenny's pick is going to cause controversy. Wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another pitcher.

So you don't want high draft picks because you are convinced that either KW will screw it up or someone will ***** about the pick? Well, lower picks are less risky because people expect less from them, but at the same time that's because in general they have less raw talent than the guys selected higher do.

Sounds like you'd prefer not to play the high draft game because you are afraid of losing. You cannot win with that mentality, period.

skottyj242
09-21-2007, 03:12 PM
This poll should have been public I would like to see all who all the fair weathers are.

chisoxmike
09-21-2007, 03:20 PM
Like it or not, it is a true statement. With 30 MLB teams and four from each league making the postseason, there are at most 22 "must-win" series for all teams. These are the series that will get a team tossed out of the season. Of course, a team winning it's must-win series means the next series is also a must-win.

I get that. I was being an ass.

That series wasn't going to make or break their postseason chances. They were done long before that series took place at the beginning of the month.

:ohno

balke
09-21-2007, 03:21 PM
So you don't want high draft picks because you are convinced that either KW will screw it up or someone will ***** about the pick? Well, lower picks are less risky because people expect less from them, but at the same time that's because in general they have less raw talent than the guys selected higher do.

Sounds like you'd prefer not to play the high draft game because you are afraid of losing. You cannot win with that mentality, period.

No I just don't respect the #1 overall that much anyhow. As long as the sox have a top 10 they have a shot at a future superstar. #1 overall really isn't THAT important is it? The last SUPERSTAR #1 draft pick overall was A-Rod back in 93'. A lot of great players go lower than that. I mean I guess Mauer was in there too, but he's been injured a lot and Adrian Gonzalez is there. So 2-3 Superstars in 14 years of #1 overall draft picks. Its not always a fun pick to have IMO.

But on the otherside of the coin, if A-Rod is out there its gonna take #1 to get him.

Wow... I didn't know Erstad was a #1 overall.

balke
09-21-2007, 03:23 PM
This poll should have been public I would like to see all who all the fair weathers are.

As long as they know who they are, that's what's really important.

skottyj242
09-21-2007, 03:29 PM
I hope we pick Ben Macdonald or Anna Benson if we get the pick

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 03:32 PM
This poll should have been public I would like to see all who all the fair weathers are.

If by fair weather fans, you mean the people who would rather see the team lose I guess that includes me. You know the guy who helps run the largest fan based Sox site on the Internet. Heck, add in CLR01 too another one of those fair weather admins.

Yeah, I was all about the fair weather when I was posting the Sox still had a shot in mid-August when they went on their little win streak and swept Detroit (IIRC) and look briefly like they might make a late season push to get back into contention.

I'm still riding shotgun on the bandwagon, it's just been put up for the winter. Hopefully they can upgrade the horses pulling it and make a run at the playoffs next year.

Oh, I was rooting for losses when the Bears were close to the first pick in the draft to land Peyton Manning. I was sitting in the stands and cheering on other team's touchdowns and getting the dirtiest looks from other long time season ticket holders. Of course, Wanny went and ****ed it up so it didn't happen and look how well that turned out.

Screw the meaningless wins, get the highest slot you can, draft the highest rated player you can get and hope it works out for the best. Yeah, it's a crap shoot, but I'd still rather have a chance at the next ARod than the next Brian Anderson (for example).

skottyj242
09-21-2007, 03:35 PM
I was talking along the lines of the people who said that they dont' care either way and that the season was over in April.
If by fair weather fans, you mean the people who would rather see the team lose I guess that includes me. You know the guy who helps run the largest fan based Sox site on the Internet. Heck, add in CLR01 too another one of those fair weather admins.

Yeah, I was all about the fair weather when I was posting the Sox still had a shot in mid-August when they went on their little win streak and swept Detroit (IIRC) and look briefly like they might make a late season push to get back into contention.

I'm still riding shotgun on the bandwagon, it's just been put up for the winter. Hopefully they can upgrade the horses pulling it and make a run at the playoffs next year.

Oh, I was rooting for losses when the Bears were close to the first pick in the draft to land Peyton Manning. I was sitting in the stands and cheering on other team's touchdowns and getting the dirtiest looks from other long time season ticket holders. Of course, Wanny went and ****ed it up so it didn't happen and look how well that turned out.

Screw the meaningless wins, get the highest slot you can, draft the highest rated player you can get and hope it works out for the best. Yeah, it's a crap shoot, but I'd still rather have a chance at the next ARod than the next Brian Anderson (for example).

voodoochile
09-21-2007, 03:41 PM
I was talking along the lines of the people who said that they dont' care either way and that the season was over in April.

Okay, thanks for explaining. I can actually answer that question, but I will respect the privacy the poll allowed when set up. I will inform you that some of those posters are far from what I consider fair weather.

ondafarm
09-21-2007, 03:49 PM
I admit, I never like to see the Sox lose and hate it if they do it intentionally. I can see a greater good in them losing though for these last nine games. Not sure if that makes me fair-weather or not.

itsnotrequired
09-21-2007, 03:57 PM
No I just don't respect the #1 overall that much anyhow. As long as the sox have a top 10 they have a shot at a future superstar. #1 overall really isn't THAT important is it? The last SUPERSTAR #1 draft pick overall was A-Rod back in 93'. A lot of great players go lower than that. I mean I guess Mauer was in there too, but he's been injured a lot and Adrian Gonzalez is there. So 2-3 Superstars in 14 years of #1 overall draft picks. Its not always a fun pick to have IMO.

But on the otherside of the coin, if A-Rod is out there its gonna take #1 to get him.

Wow... I didn't know Erstad was a #1 overall.

By all accounts I read, Pedro Alverez sounds like one of those "once every decade" kind of hitters. i wouldn't cry myself to sleep if the Sox placed last and then drafted him.

skottyj242
09-21-2007, 04:01 PM
Okay, thanks for explaining. I can actually answer that question, but I will respect the privacy the poll allowed when set up. I will inform you that some of those posters are far from what I consider fair weather.


I will just keep my mouth shut on this topic from now on.

jdm2662
09-21-2007, 04:08 PM
When the Bears had terrible years (which at one point was just about every year :o:), no matter what, I always wanted them to win their division games. That hasn't changed here.

chisoxmike
09-21-2007, 04:31 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:J4qSvHeAot5haM:http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/edwards_herman0108.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/edwards_herman0108.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/01/15/edwards040115.html&h=194&w=194&sz=14&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=J4qSvHeAot5haM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherm%2Bedwards%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den )
"You play to win the game!"

Chips
09-21-2007, 04:34 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:J4qSvHeAot5haM:http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/edwards_herman0108.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topstory/sports/edwards_herman0108.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2004/01/15/edwards040115.html&h=194&w=194&sz=14&hl=en&start=12&tbnid=J4qSvHeAot5haM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dherm%2Bedwards%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den )
"You play to win the game!"

He hasn't been doing much of that lately.

bluestar
09-21-2007, 04:36 PM
I voted before the poll was changed, but as much as I hate to see the Sox, lose, I agree the rest of this season means nothing. If the Sox can get a better draft pick, I'm all for losing right now.

As someone who is fortunate enough to get to watch Pedro Alvarez play during college baseball season, I would love to see the Sox get him.

palehozenychicty
09-21-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm afraid of getting a higher draft pick right now. I can see the Sox getting #1 overall, and Kenny just saying "I love Jordan Danks" and picking him because he's chased him for so long. I mean if Danks is the best bet, that's great... but I'm sure Kenny's pick is going to cause controversy. Wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another pitcher.

I am tired of hearing this crap. If management is as serious about winning as we believe, they'll get the best players possible. If they have to go through Boras for a potential great player and they don't do it, then they aren't who we thought they were. One way or another, we will know about our management staff's potential to rebuild into a premier franchise again this winter.

Nellie_Fox
09-22-2007, 12:56 AM
I change back and forth on this, depending on the time of day. I try to be rational and say I don't care, the games mean nothing now. Then game time comes, and I always want the Sox to win the game I'm watching (or listening to.) If the season is a loss, I can see each game as its own little, self-contained unit. This rambling probably makes no sense.

voodoochile
09-22-2007, 01:09 AM
I change back and forth on this, depending on the time of day. I try to be rational and say I don't care, the games mean nothing now. Then game time comes, and I always want the Sox to win the game I'm watching (or listening to.) If the season is a loss, I can see each game as its own little, self-contained unit. This rambling probably makes no sense.

Perfect sense to me, Nellie. With my head, I actually want them to lose, but then comes the ninth and the Sox are leading and Bobby's on the hill and there I go whooping and clapping and rooting for a meaningless win.

MarySwiss
09-22-2007, 11:01 AM
I voted before the poll was changed, but as much as I hate to see the Sox, lose, I agree the rest of this season means nothing. If the Sox can get a better draft pick, I'm all for losing right now.

As someone who is fortunate enough to get to watch Pedro Alvarez play during college baseball season, I would love to see the Sox get him.

This may sound contradictory--okay, it is contradictory--but although the rest of the season means nothing, beating the Twinkies always means something to me.

GO SOX!!!

Grzegorz
09-22-2007, 01:00 PM
As a fan I never want the team I cheer for intentionally lose. I do not like to see the integrity of the game challenged.

chisoxmike
09-22-2007, 03:12 PM
:supernana:

Sox win two in the garbage dome!

Brian26
09-22-2007, 05:38 PM
If I attend the game in person, I absolutely want them to win at all costs.

chisoxmike
09-22-2007, 05:51 PM
:hawk
"I luuuuuuv beating the Twins."

:twinslose:

SoxSpeed22
09-22-2007, 06:22 PM
Personally, I'm always against tanking, because of pride and that I want the team to try. Since the draft is such a crap-shoot, no one knows who's gonna be good, there have been plenty of early flops while great players were found a few picks later.
And to answer VC's comment about the Bears in '97, knowing them, they would've picked Ryan Leaf instead of Manning.