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View Full Version : Thome vs Steroid boys in 500th homer.


Railsplitter
09-17-2007, 09:11 AM
It took Jim Thome fewer at bats to reach 500 homers than did SamME Sosa or Rapheal Palmero
Thome 6,809 ab
Sosa 7,036 ab
Palmero 9,116 ab

itsnotrequired
09-17-2007, 09:19 AM
ARod whooped his ass though.

DrCrawdad
09-17-2007, 09:43 AM
5 of 7 Cubune sports writers say Thome YES to Thome in the HoF, 2 say NO. The NOs are Mike Downey and Philip Hersch.

Mike Downey: I like Jim Thome (who doesn't?), but he would not have my Hall of Fame vote if we voted tomorrow. He doesn't even have 2,000 hits. Thome has been an All-Star only five times in 17 seasons. But he certainly isn't finished swinging yet, so he's got a shot.

2000 hits? Thome has 1912, so far. Barring a career ending injury he'll have 2000.

Philip Hersh: My inclination is no. I have an especially high standard for first basemen, especially slug-footed first basemen (18 career stolen bases) with .281 averages. Yes, he drove in 100-plus runs nine times. But he struck out from 144 to 185 times in his best years. Lou Gehrig, George Sisler, Bill Terry, Jimmie Foxx and Hank Greenberg are in the Hall as first basemen. Thome is light years from their standard.

Since when are stolen bases a criteria to exclude sluggers, or strike-outs?

Consider the various HoF standards, and for comparisons sake let's see how Thome compares to the Cubune favorite Ron Slanto:

Thome/Slanto
Black Ink: 13/11
Gray Ink: 112/147
HoF Standards: 49.3/41
HoF Monitor: 127.5/88

Bold is where the player is above the average or likely Hall of Famer.

Seasons with 100+ RBI? Slanto 4. Thome 9.

WizardsofOzzie
09-17-2007, 10:08 AM
I'm just waiting for the Windsock column saying it wasn't a big accomplishment

Hitmen77
09-17-2007, 10:51 AM
2000 hits? Thome has 1912, so far. Barring a career ending injury he'll have 2000.


..and who's to say that Thome will not get much further past 500 HRs? I know he's had nagging injuries in recent years, but barring any sudden drop off in performance or a serious injury, I think he's a good candidate to reach 550 or even 600 HRs.

SBSoxFan
09-17-2007, 10:56 AM
It took Jim Thome fewer at bats to reach 500 homers than did SamME Sosa or Rapheal Palmero
Thome 6,809 ab
Sosa 7,036 ab
Palmero 9,116 ab


I read Thome was the fourth (I think) fastest by AB's.

CHISOXFAN13
09-17-2007, 11:07 AM
Certainly an interesting argument as we are getting to the point where there will be guys reaching 500 who are big question marks.

Carlos Delgado has 429. If he gets to 500, is he a Hall of Famer? I wouldnt say so.

Thome should end up in the top 15 on the all-time list when all is said and done, so I think he's a lock.

chaerulez
09-17-2007, 11:37 AM
5 of 7 Cubune sports writers say Thome YES to Thome in the HoF, 2 say NO. The NOs are Mike Downey and Philip Hersch.


Downey proved his stupidity when he brought up All Star games. All Star games mean almost nothing. Ryne Sandberg made 10 and he wasn't even a first ballot HOFer. Andre Dawson made 8 and he's not in (although he should be). Edgar Martinez made 7 and he will probably never get in. Palmerio only made 4 but if he was clean he would've easily made the HOF. Frank Thomas has only made 5 but he should get in. Hersh isn't even a baseball writer, so I don't know why the Tribune even asked him. I don't know why he brings up stolen base numbers on a power hitting 1B/DH. And why does he bring up strikeouts? Reggie Jackson is the all time strikeout leader and he's in the HOF. Strikeouts also aren't as bad as one would think if you have the power numbers to back it up. Thome will finish with more than 2000 hits, 525 home runs, and a .400+ OBP if he retires after 2008. I think he still has a few more years to rack up even more numbers. His career OPS+ is 149. Reggie Jackson's was 139. Sosa with his roids is only 128. Most of the recent hitters inducted range from 120 to 130. Just like Frank (career OPS+ of 157), I don't think there should be a question if he's in or not.

DumpJerry
09-17-2007, 11:48 AM
Hersh makes a pretty good argument for voting for him. That's how twisted Hersh is in his reasoning.

Yes, SBSoxFan, you are right. They reported on Sportscenter last night that Thome reached 500 with the 4th fewest at bats of the 23 members of the club.

When my friend who was with me at the game yesterday, she told me that some girl was on the phone while standing in line for the bathroom and said "Some guy is about to hit his 500th home run of the season today." Wow. I'm not aware of any juice that would produce that (given that if someone goes yard every time up, he would set a record for IIBB's).

pierzynski07
09-17-2007, 11:54 AM
2000 hits? Thome has 1912, so far. Barring a career ending injury he'll have 2000.

And since when is 2000 hits HOF worthy?

Consider the various HoF standards, and for comparisons sake let's see how Thome compares to the Cubune favorite Ron Slanto.

Were the same writers asked about Santo and whether or not he should be in? How about looking at those quotes, as opposed to looking at numbers and calling for a double standard?

cheezheadsoxfan
09-17-2007, 11:56 AM
5 of 7 Cubune sports writers say Thome YES to Thome in the HoF, 2 say NO. The NOs are Mike Downey and Philip Hersch.




Hersch should stick to Figure Skating.

SBSoxFan
09-17-2007, 12:04 PM
When my friend who was with me at the game yesterday, she told me that some girl was on the phone while standing in line for the bathroom and said "Some guy is about to hit his 500th home run of the season today." Wow. I'm not aware of any juice that would produce that (given that if someone goes yard every time up, he would set a record for IIBB's).

Wow. That's just funny and sad in so many ways!

pierzynski07
09-17-2007, 12:07 PM
Wow. That's just funny and sad in so many ways!
Seems more like one misspoken word to me.

As for Thome, he's only 37. Old, but he still has several years in him. He has at least a few more 20HR 70RBI seasons left.

SOXPHILE
09-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Hersch should stick to Figure Skating.


My sentiments exactly. Although he did make valid arguments against Sosa last year, and I will always like him for that, he isn't a baseball writer, and he never really comes across as knowing too much about it, or any other of the 4 major sports. Like you said, he really should keep plucking away at those interesting figure skating and luge stories.

NardiWasHere
09-17-2007, 03:13 PM
For me, I'd put guys into the hall if they fall under three categories

1. Impressive HOF-worthy Stats gained over the course of the career
2. "Dominance/Wow Factor"- This applies to guys who catch your attention. Whenever your team faces this player, you get excited to see them play. Or, players who completely dominated for a fairly brief time span.
3. Guys who have both 1&2

Whenever the Sox would face the Tribe, you would have to be lying if you were never awed by a player like Thome. He was so good at what he did, he would almost always change the game.

Likewise, a player like Cal Ripkin to me is the prototypical #1 guy. If the Orioles were coming to town, you never felt the same way about him as a Jim Thome. He was great for a long period of time, but he was never a transcendent force if you took him out of the context of his career accomplishments.

Neither category is better or worse than the other, and I believe both types of players deserve the same amount of consideration.

But I often feel as though voters depend so much on these milestones... and then you sort of miss the point.

Even if Thome or Thomas never hit 500, they were still HOFers. 500 is just a number. This arbitrary system seems to make little sense to me. Downey's "2000 hit" argument is missing the point. What makes some players HOF caliber is not something measurable, but the impact they had on the game as a whole.

Where I look to the milestones is in a case like Delgado. Now a player like Delgado doesn't necessarily "feel" like a Hall of Famer to me, but if he reaches 500, that milestone is sort of the begining of re-examining his credentials.

Also, to say Thome isn't as good as Gehrig and others, and therefore should not be inducted, doesn't make too much sense. Few players are. How is that a practical way to decide on Hall of Famers?

russ99
09-17-2007, 03:32 PM
Thome never played in Boston or New York, so he's going to be knocked down a peg by national sportswriters, regardless of how we all know he's a future hall of famer.

itsnotrequired
09-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Thome never played in Boston or New York, so he's going to be knocked down a peg by national sportswriters, regardless of how we all know he's a future hall of famer.

Get real...

areilly
09-17-2007, 06:25 PM
2. "Dominance/Wow Factor"- This applies to guys who catch your attention. Whenever your team faces this player, you get excited to see them play. Or, players who completely dominated for a fairly brief time span.

I usually think along these lines too, but I call it "The Pedro Martinez Factor."

WSox597
09-17-2007, 07:17 PM
Of the 23 players, 4 of them should have big red asterisks next to their names. Neon, flashing, red asterisks. And a spotlight on the asterisk just in case anybody misses it.

Bonds, McGwire, Sham-Me, and Palmeiro.

Hopefully, Barroid will retire so we can be rid of his stench. And then Rodriguez can blow him away down the road, and take the crown away from him.

If he does, you can bet your bottom dollar that Barroid won't be as classy as Hank Aaron was.