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ondafarm
09-13-2007, 12:02 PM
JR has suggested that the White Sox will spend money to make this team competitive next year. This either means teaching old dogs new tricks and really fast at that, or adding upgraded components in the off-season. Barring trades which are steals, this would presumably mean adding free agents. So what free agents would you want the White Sox to pursue? Would ARod be worth another championship? I presume he'd move back to shortstop and Crede would stay at third. Would Hunter look good in center field? Would Santana add a little more to the rotation? I think the Sox might get one of these three.

sox1970
09-13-2007, 12:04 PM
I'm not holding my breath on either Arod or Torii Hunter.

Johan Santana won't be a free agent until after 2008, and he'll probably be the home pitcher when the new Yankee Stadium opens in 2009.

SoxSpeed22
09-13-2007, 12:11 PM
I think that KW will try making more trades, because they have money that they have to get rid of, plus the FA market isn't all that strong. Certainly not '05. The starting pitching market is very weak so he could trade Contreras for something. If they do sign free agents, it will be low-price vets.

Edit: I think Ondafarm meant Ervin Santana when referring to Santana.

It's Dankerific
09-13-2007, 12:22 PM
I have a feeling we are going to pick up some more slap happy, injury prone, questionable defense utility/journeymen

I know I said after 2005 that I wouldnt ask for much.. but this season is really putting it to the test.

eriqjaffe
09-13-2007, 12:48 PM
Would Santana add a little more to the rotation?Just a little.

soxfanatlanta
09-13-2007, 12:59 PM
I have a feeling we are going to pick up some more slap happy, injury prone, questionable defense utility/journeymen .

That's the spirit!

I'd rather see JR invest more money on scouting and player development; having a surplus of young talent would mitigate the ebbs and flows of free agent movement. The organization is really top heavy right now and that's not a good place to be.

TDog
09-13-2007, 01:11 PM
In many years, teams are reluctant to make big deals before the major free agents are signed. Teams that will take on big contracts are teams that generally will be looking to take them on in signings rather than trades. I don't expect the White Sox will be able to free up money for free agents before going after free agents.

The Sox already have re-signed Buehrle and Dye, who appeared headed for the free-agent market, so they have started their commitment to be competitive and not rebuilding in 2008. In addressing the bullpen, the Sox will have to deal with other teams, probably acquiring relievers as part of multiplayer deals involving other needs. Free agent relievers are usually a bust economically. (Bob Howry, for example, pitched 76 innings last year and will likely pitch fewer than 80 inning this year, already losing seven games in relief, while being paid an annual $3 million salary.)

The White Sox will be an improved team in 2008. I expect them to contend. There will be changes, but I think people will be surprised, and perhaps upset, with some of the changes that aren't made.

ondafarm
09-13-2007, 01:41 PM
I think adding ARod, and subtracting Uribe, reinserting Crede, some relatively minor tweaking in the bullpen plus a bit of updating the rotation (dumping Contreras) would make this team very competitive. I also think ARod would love to play half his games in USCF. He could probably easily hit a White Sox record number of homers and returning to his natural position, SS, would be a plus.

dooda
09-13-2007, 01:42 PM
Amen to the upgrading of the farm system. Free agency shouldn't be used to retool an entire franchise. Use it to fill a hole here or there or upgrade a
position or two. It's too expensive to rely on to fill 5 or 6 weak spots. Trying to do so cripples the franchise for years financially.

The Twins have been competitive most years with out major expenditures on top tier FA's because they are able to develop their own talent.

ondafarm
09-13-2007, 01:42 PM
I'd rather see JR invest more money on scouting and player development; having a surplus of young talent would mitigate the ebbs and flows of free agent movement. . .

I agree 100% but I haven't heard JR say a word about this. Has anyone?

chisoxmike
09-13-2007, 01:45 PM
I think adding ARod, and subtracting Uribe, reinserting Crede, some relatively minor tweaking in the bullpen plus a bit of updating the rotation (dumping Contreras) would make this team very competitive. I also think ARod would love to play half his games in USCF. He could probably easily hit a White Sox record number of homers and returning to his natural position, SS, would be a plus.

I really don't think A-Rod is coming here. I would love it if he did, but I can't imagine the Sox taking on that contract.

soxfanatlanta
09-13-2007, 01:49 PM
I really don't think A-Rod is coming here. I would love it if he did, but I can't imagine the Sox taking on that contract.

Looking at his performance this year, the salaries we would have to dump, and his agent - not gonna happen.

getonbckthr
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
Carl Crawford will be the CF'r next season.

paciorek1983
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
I want to see the Sox sign guys that can drive in runners that are in scoring position.

LITTLE NELL
09-13-2007, 01:59 PM
Championship teams are always strong up the middle, what do we have? At SS a player who never saw a pitch he didnt like and is a liitle bit lazy, at 2B an unproven rookie, in Center field an unproven rookie. The only place we are in good shape is behind the plate with AJ.
KW hopefully can fill these spots if we are to contend. If we were to rebuild I would stick with Owens and Richar and see how good or bad they are for a full season. We also need to bring some bullpen guys who can get people out.

JorgeFabregas
09-13-2007, 02:24 PM
JR seemed to indicated that payroll will once again be around $100-110 million. Assuming that's true, they won't make any free agent splash unless they trade away at least one of their big contracts. Or...they might just trade one highly-payed player for another.

TDog
09-13-2007, 02:26 PM
Carl Crawford will be the CF'r next season.

... on a last place team.

thomas35forever
09-13-2007, 02:28 PM
... on a last place team.
Exactly. He's the face of the Devil Rays franchise, easily the best player they've ever had. Don't hold your breath on this one.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-13-2007, 02:42 PM
This is how I envision our team looking next year-

C- A J

3B- Crede at least until the all star break

SS- Renteria ( when we send Garland to the Braves )

2B- Richar ( hopefully with an above .200
average)

1B- Paulie

LF- Fields

CF- Rowand ( back where he belongs )

RF- Dye

DH- Thome

As for our pitching....I just hope that it gets better

Nellie_Fox
09-13-2007, 02:43 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Santana is a free agent until after next year. I've said before that the Sox are not going to give at least a fourth of their payroll to one guy, so ARod is not a consideration. Torii is a maybe.

Nellie_Fox
09-13-2007, 02:45 PM
...( when we send Garland to the Braves )...As for our pitching....I just hope that it gets betterAnd just how do you get the pitching better by trading away Garland?

Zisk77
09-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Not saying I think we are getting Arod( i would bet against it), but it might not be out of the question for the following reasons.

1. Signing him to a front loaded 5 or 6 year deal might actually work out. Sure in increases payroll....but think of the added revenue with his chase of the tainted Bonds record with his Untainted one?

2. the cell may be the friendliest HR hitting park making it an attractive option to Arod.

3. Big If Here - you don't pick up Uribe's option (duh) save 5 mil and somehow unload Contreras in the off season (good luck....c'mon Minaya) thats another what 12 mil? this & Next? or something close. Thome comes off the books after next year. maybe Garland too...hope not).

4. He would fill an immediate need at ss and probably finish his contract at 1b.

5. He would probably thrive here as the pressure is nowhere near what it is in NY. there also would be less likely to ego conflicts that he has with Mr. Yankee currently.

If i had to guess what free agents we'd sign it would be:

Scott Linebrink
Rowand or Cameronor or Hunter
Vizquel or some stop gap until a good ss emerges thru trade, draft, farm, or futer F.A.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-13-2007, 02:57 PM
And just how do you get the pitching better by trading away Garland?

Garland has been average this year, we have some young guys ie. Gio Gonzales, Lance Broadway who could fill in not to mention there may also be some young arms available in that trade.

SBSoxFan
09-13-2007, 02:58 PM
And just how do you get the pitching better by trading away Garland?

Many posters have made this point, and I tend to agree. My question then is: Are you willing to keep Uribe at short to keep the starting pitching intact? KW has always said you have to give up talent to get talent. It seems the best, and perhaps only, way to get a new, quality shortstop for next year is by trading a valuable commodity. Vazquez and Garland are probably the two most valued players the Sox have.

Having said that, I have no idea what the FA market for starting pitching is next year or what KW might be able to swing to get a middle-of-the-rotation starter.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-13-2007, 03:02 PM
I don't think that you can trade vasquez after the year that he has had. He has showed me a lot this year in overcoming his 6th inning woes. I think with Vasquez and Buehrle at the top of the rotation you can afford to deal Garland but only if the price is right.

dooda
09-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Torii Hunter is a must get. He solves so many problems. Defense, speed, OBP, RBI.

I agree with Nellie Fox. How does getting rid of John Garland improve the pitching? Didn't Garland recently win 18 games in back to back years. What is Burhle's high win total? I don't expect Garland to ever have a 3.00 ERA but he has proven he can win 18 games.

A rotation of Burhle, Vasquez, Garland, Danks and Floyd might be real competitive. Danks and Floyd are young and unproven winners, but Tom Glavine got pounded while learning at the major league level, and he wound up OK.

SBSoxFan
09-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Torii Hunter is a must get. He solves so many problems. Defense, speed, OBP, RBI.

I agree with Nellie Fox. How does getting rid of John Garland improve the pitching? Didn't Garland recently win 18 games in back to back years. What is Burhle's high win total? I don't expect Garland to ever have a 3.00 ERA but he has proven he can win 18 games.

A rotation of Burhle, Vasquez, Garland, Danks and Floyd might be real competitive. Danks and Floyd are young and unproven winners, but Tom Glavine got pounded while learning at the major league level, and he wound up OK.

Buehrle's top win total so far is 19, but he has a much better win % than Garland.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-13-2007, 03:15 PM
Torii Hunter is a must get. He solves so many problems. Defense, speed, OBP, RBI.

I agree with Nellie Fox. How does getting rid of John Garland improve the pitching? Didn't Garland recently win 18 games in back to back years. What is Burhle's high win total? I don't expect Garland to ever have a 3.00 ERA but he has proven he can win 18 games.

A rotation of Burhle, Vasquez, Garland, Danks and Floyd might be real competitive. Danks and Floyd are young and unproven winners, but Tom Glavine got pounded while learning at the major league level, and he wound up OK.


Our starting pitching has been pretty solid this year. I'm not saying give Garland away for a bag of beans and a single A backup catcher, all I am sayin is that I think someone like Renteria would fill a gaping hole in our lineup.

Not to mention I think that we would also be able to pry away some young arms in a trade like that.

Lip Man 1
09-13-2007, 03:34 PM
Nellie:

Santana can go free agent after the 2008 season (along with Nathan) and I agree with your A-Rod logic. The Sox simply can't tie up a large amount of the payroll on one guy, regardless of how good he is.

You can also apply the same logic to Santana. He could get 25-30 million a season and the only teams able or willing to do that are the Yankees, Mets, Dodgers and Red Sox. The Cubs will be under new ownership with a payroll already very high and I just can't see them getting into this.

Lip

MISoxfan
09-13-2007, 03:38 PM
Torii Hunter is a must get. He solves so many problems. Defense, speed, OBP, RBI.

I agree with Nellie Fox. How does getting rid of John Garland improve the pitching? Didn't Garland recently win 18 games in back to back years. What is Burhle's high win total? I don't expect Garland to ever have a 3.00 ERA but he has proven he can win 18 games.

A rotation of Burhle, Vasquez, Garland, Danks and Floyd might be real competitive. Danks and Floyd are young and unproven winners, but Tom Glavine got pounded while learning at the major league level, and he wound up OK.


Why are you comparing Buehrle and Garland? There is really no way to compare Garland and Buehrle and have Garland come out on top.

eriqjaffe
09-13-2007, 03:39 PM
Buehrle's top win total so far is 19, but he has a much better win % than Garland.Also, pitching wins are one of the least useful metrics for measuring how good a pitcher is. Garland's numbers this year are almost identical as they were last year (except for the fact that his BB:K ratio this year is much worse), and he may not even get to 10 wins this year because the offense is so bad.

2005 was (by a pretty good margin) the aberration in his career, the same as it was for Cotts, Politte, Contreras, and (to a lesser extent) Hermanson. Garland's only real advantage over Contreras is the fact that he's at least 8 years younger.

ondafarm
09-13-2007, 04:44 PM
Where I the manager of any other team, I would be ringing KW's phone as soon as allowable (a week after WS ends IIRC) about trading for Jon Garland. A sinkerballer who had back to back 18 win seasons and has had one down year. Sorry, acquiring young guys with a 50-50 (or better) shot of posting another 18 win season is nearly always a good thing. Word I've heard is that he wants to return to the West Coast.

oeo
09-13-2007, 05:06 PM
Where I the manager of any other team, I would be ringing KW's phone as soon as allowable (a week after WS ends IIRC) about trading for Jon Garland. A sinkerballer who had back to back 18 win seasons and has had one down year. Sorry, acquiring young guys with a 50-50 (or better) shot of posting another 18 win season is nearly always a good thing. Word I've heard is that he wants to return to the West Coast.

One down year? He's had one up year in his entire career. This year is much closer to his career norm than 2005 was.

DickAllen72
09-13-2007, 05:28 PM
Carl Crawford will be the CF'r next season.
Just what they need. A Left Fielder playing CF.

upperdeckusc
09-13-2007, 05:34 PM
JR has suggested that the White Sox will spend money to make this team competitive next year. This either means teaching old dogs new tricks and really fast at that, or adding upgraded components in the off-season. Barring trades which are steals, this would presumably mean adding free agents. So what free agents would you want the White Sox to pursue? Would ARod be worth another championship? I presume he'd move back to shortstop and Crede would stay at third. Would Hunter look good in center field? Would Santana add a little more to the rotation? I think the Sox might get one of these three.

Probably not. He's nothing special or anything....

upperdeckusc
09-13-2007, 05:37 PM
Amen to the upgrading of the farm system. Free agency shouldn't be used to retool an entire franchise. Use it to fill a hole here or there or upgrade a
position or two. It's too expensive to rely on to fill 5 or 6 weak spots. Trying to do so cripples the franchise for years financially.

The Twins have been competitive most years with out major expenditures on top tier FA's because they are able to develop their own talent.

And what type of ring does MLB give you exactly for "being competitive" ? Maybe if they spent money on a FA here or there they would have won something relevant.

upperdeckusc
09-13-2007, 05:46 PM
One down year? He's had one up year in his entire career. This year is much closer than his career norm than 2005 was.

Amen. My thoughts exactly. I really wanted KW to pull the trigger at the break and cash in on him when his era was in the 3's. With boston paying a good amount of renteria's contract, it wouldnt be a terrible idea. I'd obviously prefer a younger/higher upside SS and a really good pitcher. Pretty much 2 cant miss players. Now, in his contract yr, after another toronto blue jays ted lilly like (minus the K's) year, dont be surprised if the offers for him dont look alot like the garcia deal....

mjmcend
09-13-2007, 06:39 PM
Torii Hunter is a must get. He solves so many problems. Defense, speed, OBP, RBI.

Hunter doesn't help OBP. His career mark is .324 which is below league average.

mjmcend
09-13-2007, 06:43 PM
And what type of ring does MLB give you exactly for "being competitive" ? Maybe if they spent money on a FA here or there they would have won something relevant.

And not spending money is Ryan's fault?
He did an amazing job with little resources and the Sox are better off without him at the helm of a division foe.

oeo
09-13-2007, 09:29 PM
Amen. My thoughts exactly. I really wanted KW to pull the trigger at the break and cash in on him when his era was in the 3's. With boston paying a good amount of renteria's contract, it wouldnt be a terrible idea. I'd obviously prefer a younger/higher upside SS and a really good pitcher. Pretty much 2 cant miss players. Now, in his contract yr, after another toronto blue jays ted lilly like (minus the K's) year, dont be surprised if the offers for him dont look alot like the garcia deal....

I'm wishing that the deal with the Astros last offseason would have went through. Hirsh, Taveras, and Buchholz? Thank you, come again.

eriqjaffe
09-14-2007, 09:29 AM
Hunter doesn't help OBP. His career mark is .324 which is below league average.Which is still higher than the White Sox team OBP this year. Only Thome, Konerko, and Luis Terrero(!) have higher OBPs than that this year. (Iguchi and Mackowiak also had higher OBPs when they were traded).

oeo
09-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Which is still higher than the White Sox team OBP this year. Only Thome, Konerko, and Luis Terrero(!) have higher OBPs than that this year. (Iguchi and Mackowiak also had higher OBPs when they were traded).

Well, the key words being 'this year.' Every guy in the lineup is having one of the worst (if not the worst) years of their careers.

The more I think about it, I want the Sox to sign one of Rowand or Hunter (of course with the price being right). Both of those guys bring two things: fire and leadership...and we've lacked that fire the last couple of years. There are some good leaders on this team, but they're not the ones that kick you in the rear...they're more of support. Torii Hunter will kick you in the rear and fire you up.

Now, if it takes Vernon Wells/Ichiro money, no way. At the right price, I'd welcome Torii if only because of what he offers in the clubhouse.

AZChiSoxFan
09-14-2007, 11:20 AM
I'd rather see JR invest more money on scouting and player development.

:KW:reinsy

"Scouting? Player development? What's that? I'll have my secretary look into that and see if that's something we might want to start doing."

Lip Man 1
09-14-2007, 12:47 PM
This column from Friday's Daily Southtown is very interesting.

In fact, if true, it's downright shocking some in the organization still think the Sox are "close" and that major off season changes don't need to be performed:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/557537,141LAD1.article

Lip

spiffie
09-14-2007, 12:59 PM
This column from Friday's Daily Southtown is very interesting.

In fact, if true, it's downright shocking some in the organization still think the Sox are "close" and that major off season changes don't need to be performed:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/557537,141LAD1.article

Lip
Eh, some people on this board seem convinced that next year everything will turn around if just make one or two moves, and let the rest of the team just stay as is and watch everyone play great next season. No surprise some people inside the team would come to the same conclusion.

ondafarm
09-14-2007, 01:30 PM
This column from Friday's Daily Southtown is very interesting.

In fact, if true, it's downright shocking some in the organization still think the Sox are "close" and that major off season changes don't need to be performed:

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/ladewski/557537,141LAD1.article

Lip

The Southtown seems to take as gospel that firing Larussa was a "boo-boo". With the talent he had or fouled up, the Sox should have won a couple of World Series.

SBSoxFan
09-14-2007, 02:31 PM
Eh, some people on this board seem convinced that next year everything will turn around if just make one or two moves, and let the rest of the team just stay as is and watch everyone play great next season. No surprise some people inside the team would come to the same conclusion.

There's also people on this board who think that nearly every veteran is washed up, and that none of the youngsters are going to improve. I'd be surprised if there's anyone inside the team who thinks that.

Next year's a new year; do you think Konerko, for example, is going to hit 240, 260, or 300?

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2007, 02:52 PM
Next year's a new year; do you think Konerko, for example, is going to hit 240, 260, or 300?

It all depends on who else is in the lineup and how they are performing. If he has a great season, he deserves all the credit. If he has a bad season, it's because no one else is producing, either.

In all seriousness, I think he will bounce back and hit .280 with 40 homers and 100 RBI.

spiffie
09-14-2007, 02:58 PM
There's also people on this board who think that nearly every veteran is washed up, and that none of the youngsters are going to improve. I'd be surprised if there's anyone inside the team who thinks that.

Next year's a new year; do you think Konerko, for example, is going to hit 240, 260, or 300?
No idea. Historically he tends to hit around 270-280. Hopefully he'll do that or better. Of course if he has a couple nice weeks to close out the season, he'll be close to his career average anyhow.

GoSox2K3
09-14-2007, 05:16 PM
No idea. Historically he tends to hit around 270-280. Hopefully he'll do that or better. Of course if he has a couple nice weeks to close out the season, he'll be close to his career average anyhow.

Paulie is hitting 18 pts below his career avg. as of today. I doubt he'll be able to change his avg much with about 2 weeks left to play.

He's also on track to have his lowest totals in HR, RBI, SLG, OBP, and OPS since 2003.

RCWHITESOX
09-14-2007, 05:50 PM
And just how do you get the pitching better by trading away Garland?

By going after Jake Peavy who said this is probably going to be his last year in San Diego. He like Garland is in his last year next year and he said he expects to get traded this year. He would look great in a Sox uniform.

Frater Perdurabo
09-14-2007, 06:12 PM
By going after Jake Peavy who said this is probably going to be his last year in San Diego. He like Garland is in his last year next year and he said he expects to get traded this year. He would great in a Sox uniform.

Hmmm. On the surface my gut instinct is to say that Peavy is the better pitcher. Here are their respective 162-game averages:

Peavy: 14 W, 10 L, 3.31 ERA, 4.02 LG ERA, 121 ERA+, 214.3 IP, 21 HR, 68 BB, 215 K

Garland: 13 W 11 L, 4.46 ERA, 4.65 LG ERA, 104 ERA+, 206 IP, 26 HR, 68 BB, 110 K.

Peavy obviously gives up fewer homers in Petco; he'd give up a few more at the Cell and against AL lineups with the DH. But he strikes out hitters twice as much as Garland. So, Peavy still seems to be the better pitcher.

I'd do a Peavy for Garland deal in a second. But the Padres wouldn't. Peavy makes less $ than Garland, too. The Sox would have to send the Padres more talent and/or cash to get the deal done.

Still, I like the idea of building a deal around a Peavy/Garland swap.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-14-2007, 07:50 PM
Getting Peavy for Garland and any package of minor leaguers would be a steal for the sox. I don't see it happening but I'd be happy to pack Garlands bags if it were to happen.

palehozenychicty
09-14-2007, 11:38 PM
Eh, some people on this board seem convinced that next year everything will turn around if just make one or two moves, and let the rest of the team just stay as is and watch everyone play great next season. No surprise some people inside the team would come to the same conclusion.


Indeed. If you're in last place, you need a LOT of work. Not just a FA here and there.

oeo
09-15-2007, 09:55 AM
Indeed. If you're in last place, you need a LOT of work. Not just a FA here and there.

You're completely ignoring the fact that AJ Pierzynski, Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Jermaine Dye were all below their career averages most of the year/still are in most categories. Not to mention, we've been without our starting 3B since May.

It's not like we've got a bunch of 22-year-old kids that are looking like they won't pan out.

soxinem1
09-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Indeed. If you're in last place, you need a LOT of work. Not just a FA here and there.http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/hendry0115.jpg

'Basically, what you need to do is just buy a whole freakin' team, then make a few trades with whoever the bone-headed GM of the Pirates is, then you're all set.'

soxfan1983
09-16-2007, 11:28 PM
Carl Crawford will be the CF'r next season.

im hoping for crawford in LF, rowand in CF, dye in RF, crede at 3b, arod at SS, richar 2b, konerko 1b, aj C.....

open the piggybank for arod and trade for crawford and sign rowand