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KnightSox
09-11-2007, 04:04 PM
The score just reported that Ozzies contract has been extended through 2012, I for one am glad.

MCHSoxFan
09-11-2007, 04:08 PM
Yeeeeesssss!!!!

LITTLE NELL
09-11-2007, 04:13 PM
Good move, you cant blame Ozzie for this mess of a season.

tebman
09-11-2007, 04:14 PM
Good move. :thumbsup:

Now, some hard questions about the 2008 roster.

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-11-2007, 04:16 PM
Lock up the leadership.

Now, allow him to manage this team.

chisoxmike
09-11-2007, 04:16 PM
Alright. Now, put together a winning team for 2008.

MCHSoxFan
09-11-2007, 04:19 PM
Alright. Now, put together a winning team for 2008.

Agian: YEEEEESSSS!!!

BainesHOF
09-11-2007, 04:27 PM
Good for Ozzie, but whatever.

It's silly this comes during a disasterous season.

DumpJerry
09-11-2007, 04:31 PM
Does this mean we won't try to get Lou "The Perfect Baseball Mind" Pinella?

downstairs
09-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Assuming he doesn't get canned during these 5 years, he'll join Jimmie Dykes and Al Lopez as the only White Sox managers to manage for 9 years.

Lopez managed for 9.

Dykes managed for 12- and had a LOSING record in Chicago. No manager today would keep up a losing record for 12 years!

The Immigrant
09-11-2007, 04:35 PM
I imagine ondafarm shaking his fist at the sky.

LITTLE NELL
09-11-2007, 04:36 PM
Put to rest the Larussa rumors.

DumpJerry
09-11-2007, 04:39 PM
Put to rest the Larussa rumors.
He's in line to be the Clubhouse Manager.

DumpJerry
09-11-2007, 04:40 PM
I imagine ondafarm shaking his fist at the sky.
He became a Cub fan 30 minutes ago.

Daver
09-11-2007, 04:41 PM
He's in line to be the Clubhouse Manager.

He's not qualified.

kevingrt
09-11-2007, 04:44 PM
Good news. No better options out there then Ozzie.

Navarro's Talent
09-11-2007, 04:57 PM
Glad to hear it. Now, it's time to reload this roster and get ready for next season.

VenturaFan23
09-11-2007, 04:57 PM
:moron
"Looks like I got my material for 4 more years. Thank you White Sox!"

mjmcend
09-11-2007, 04:57 PM
Good move, if only for the reason it will cut down on the idiotic 'will he - won't he get fired' articles next season.

jabrch
09-11-2007, 04:58 PM
You couldn't keep him as a lame duck - so it was either extend him, or fire him. I really didn't care much either way.

chisoxfanatic
09-11-2007, 05:02 PM
Glad to hear it. Now, it's time to reload this roster and get ready for next season.
Yes, it is. You can't expect ANY manager to win with the hand Ozzie was dealt this year.

downstairs
09-11-2007, 05:03 PM
:moron
"Looks like I got my material for 4 more years. Thank you White Sox!"



Actually, 5

;)

Standing Ovation
09-11-2007, 05:15 PM
What?????? IMO, bad move. Ozzie has been such a stabilizing force this year.

thomas35forever
09-11-2007, 05:16 PM
:moron
"Curses! Foiled again! I shall not rest until I prove to all the world that Ozzie is the worst human being on the planet! Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!"

lumpyspun
09-11-2007, 05:23 PM
Can Ozzie still hit? We might need a decent SS next year...

delben91
09-11-2007, 05:25 PM
Good for Ozzie, good for the Sox.

Southsider101
09-11-2007, 05:31 PM
Good move by the front office. It gives the Sox some stability for next year and shows that Ozzie will have a hand in reshaping this ball club. Congrats Ozzie!

Lip Man 1
09-11-2007, 05:34 PM
I think the good things Ozzie brings to the table, his passion, knowledge, honestly, desire to win... outweigh the negatives, i.e. giving guys rest, especially early in the year and burning through the bullpen with his constant 'matchup's.'

One other thing this does is let every player or potential future player know that at least for the next few seasons, Ozzie is in charge. There is some good in having stability in the organization.

However make no mistake, it's about performance.

If he can't get the players motivated, can't get them to begin doing the things that Little Leaguers seem to be able to do, bunt, steal bases, hit and run and so forth then he can and will be fired eventually.

Sox ownership simply can't afford to have this club fall into the black hole for any long amount of time and go back to drawing 12,000 a night. There's simply to much now at stake.

Lip

soxinem1
09-11-2007, 05:36 PM
True Guillen cannot be totally blamed for this year, but locking him up for five years is not entirely the right thing either.

On the good side, it will show the players that the team will not let their underachieving ways result in the predictable 'fire the manager' routine (at least now), but Guillen has made many questionable managing decisions and strategies, mainly letting the press dictate benching Anderson for more offense last year when the team didn't need it at the time.

His problems developing rookie players have stood out while little reprocussions were felt when guys like Uribe, Erstad, and Mackowiak produced little, but stayed in the line up. The lack of motivation the team has shown since last July, and a good part of 2004, is definitely a very legit concern.

Additionally, many dumb comments when he was better offf shutting up even made KW voice his concern over Guillen's future with the team, but now, he can shoot his mouth off when he wants because he's going to be paid for five more seasons.

On a colorful note, I hope they put a 'Stop looking in the stands during the games so often' clause in his contract so he concentrates more on the events on the field.

His best managing job was most of 2005, but his teams underachieved in 2004, 2006, and 2007. I really think they should have waited until next year to extend him.

Frontman
09-11-2007, 05:42 PM
All right White Sox! Now, get to building this team up. You've got the superstructure, now let's see some additions.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2007, 05:49 PM
It's hard to say the Sox underachieved in 2004 when Magglio and Frank basically missed the second half of the season.

Remember the Sox were in first at the break...then came the injuries which ruined any chance they had. Particularly when you add in an unstable back of the starting rotation.

Lip

DumpJerry
09-11-2007, 05:51 PM
True Guillen cannot be totally blamed for this year, but locking him up for five years is not entirely the right thing either.

On the good side, it will show the players that the team will not let their underachieving ways result in the predictable 'fire the manager' routine (at least now), but Guillen has made many questionable managing decisions and strategies, mainly letting the press dictate benching Anderson for more offense last year when the team didn't need it at the time.

His problems developing rookie players have stood out while little reprocussions were felt when guys like Uribe, Erstad, and Mackowiak produced little, but stayed in the line up. The lack of motivation the team has shown since last July, and a good part of 2004, is definitely a very legit concern.

Additionally, many dumb comments when he was better offf shutting up even made KW voice his concern over Guillen's future with the team, but now, he can shoot his mouth off when he wants because he's going to be paid for five more seasons.

On a colorful note, I hope they put a 'Stop looking in the stands during the games so often' clause in his contract so he concentrates more on the events on the field.

His best managing job was most of 2005, but his teams underachieved in 2004, 2006, and 2007. I really think they should have waited until next year to extend him.
I was wondering what username LaRussa used when he registered here.:redneck

jdm2662
09-11-2007, 05:54 PM
It's hard to say the Sox underachieved in 2004 when Magglio and Frank basically missed the second half of the season.

Remember the Sox were in first at the break...then came the injuries which ruined any chance they had. Particularly when you add in an unstable back of the starting rotation.

Lip

That's my thoughts exactly. Scott Schoenwis was the number 4 starter. Danny Wright was still in the rotation. Talent wise, the 2004 team had much less than 2003. The fact, even after losing your two best hitters, they still won 83 games was probably Ozzie's best job as manager.

soxinem1
09-11-2007, 05:56 PM
I was wondering what username LaRussa used when he registered here.:redneck

I do not know Tony LaRussa, Tony La Russa is not a friend of mine, and Sir, I am no Tony LaRussa!:smile:

WSox597
09-11-2007, 05:56 PM
I wonder why a last place team's manager was rewarded by an extension. It doesn't make sense.

Put me down for disagreeing with the move. I don't have the virulent hate for the man that some do, life is too short for that. It just seems to send the wrong message to a last place team when their manager is rewarded.

If he is being rewarded for the 2005 WS, that should have taken place before 2006.

We've suffered through too many losing or subpar seasons, at least those of us over 50 have, to put up with more of it.

At least the fans stop coming if the product stinks, unlike other fans who shall remain nameless. This will force the power structure to make the right moves. I hope.

soxinem1
09-11-2007, 05:57 PM
That's my thoughts exactly. Scott Schoenwis was the number 4 starter. Talent wise, the 2004 team had much less than 2003. The fact, even after losing your two best hitters, they still won 83 games was probably Ozzie's best job as manager.

On paper I agree, but that team, along with the 2003 White Sox, lost a LOT of games they should have won against ****ty teams they should have beaten.

MarySwiss
09-11-2007, 05:58 PM
:moron
"Looks like I got my material for 4 more years. Thank you White Sox!"

Any guesses as to the Windsock's topic for tomorrow? :tongue:


All I can say is, "Yippee!"

Patrick134
09-11-2007, 06:00 PM
I wonder why a last place team's manager was rewarded by an extension. It doesn't make sense.

Put me down for disagreeing with the move. I don't have the virulent hate for the man that some do, life is too short for that. It just seems to send the wrong message to a last place team when their manager is rewarded.

If he is being rewarded for the 2005 WS, that should have taken place before 2006.

We've suffered through too many losing or subpar seasons, at least those of us over 50 have, to put up with more of it.

At least the fans stop coming if the product stinks, unlike other fans who shall remain nameless. This will force the power structure to make the right moves. I hope.


Right move #1 being locking Ozzie up for years to come. Bravo.

tacosalbarojas
09-11-2007, 06:09 PM
On AM1000 Mac, Jurko, Harry and Levineline were saying that JR is saying this is his last management team and that after Ozzie and Kenny he is riding off into the sunset and handing the team off to his son. Can anyone find a JR quote to this effect? Or is it just Levine throwing stuff out there to see what sticks? If JR said something to this effect, this is much more interesting than just the contract extension.

Soxfest
09-11-2007, 06:09 PM
What is the hurry and till 2012? KW would not have signed up OG that long, If KW extension is not for behind. I am not a fan of this long of an extension.

TomBradley72
09-11-2007, 06:33 PM
I wouldn't have minded a 1-2 year extension...but 4 years? I don't think he deserves that level of commitment based on the results he's had in the 4 years he's been manager.

Playing Machowiak in CF as much as he did in 2006 should have been worth a 2 year reduction on it's own. :cool:

Daver
09-11-2007, 06:44 PM
What is the hurry and till 2012? KW would not have signed up OG that long, If KW extension is not for behind. I am not a fan of this long of an extension.

Kenny Williams will be the GM until he resigns, or Jerry retires, Jerry will not fire him.

ChiSoxRowand
09-11-2007, 06:52 PM
What a complete joke. The Sox have their worst record in years and he gets a five year extension? I didn't want him to get a two year extension, let alone five. I guess this assures that Ozzie will never be fired.

anewman35
09-11-2007, 06:57 PM
What a complete joke. The Sox have their worst record in years and he gets a five year extension? I didn't want him to get a two year extension, let alone five. I guess this assures that Ozzie will never be fired.

It's not a five year extension - he already had a contract for 2008, and (I believe) an option for 2009.

steveo_88(UK)
09-11-2007, 07:08 PM
What i would like to see him do now is forget the season as it stands, there's nothing to play for excepth pride! Now he can take the team he has and look to win over .500 of the games that remain to put the team in a decent position to perform seriously better in the next season. Get Thome past 500 and light a fire under the starting rotation to show improvement or get rid!

mjmcend
09-11-2007, 07:14 PM
What a complete joke. The Sox have their worst record in years and he gets a five year extension? I didn't want him to get a two year extension, let alone five. I guess this assures that Ozzie will never be fired.

Also, from what I read, it has a relatively low buy-out, so it wouldn't be hard (financially) to fire him if needed.

Hendu
09-11-2007, 07:23 PM
Cool. Now build him a team to work with, KW.

DickAllen72
09-11-2007, 07:23 PM
Ozzie's OK I guess, but does this mean we're stuck with Walker and Baines??? :(:

Hitmen77
09-11-2007, 07:53 PM
Ozzie's OK I guess, but does this mean we're stuck with Walker and Baines??? :(:

That's the biggest problem I have with Ozzie - the coaching staff is full of his buddies from his playing days. Will there ever be accountability for any of those guys?

JR loves Ozzie as a person so much that he's giving him an "A" in a season where we're sinking to the worst record in the league. Likewise, how bad do things have to get with the Sox before Walker, Baines, and/or Cora's effectiveness are called into question.

I'm not necessarily saying fired 'em all now - but how much slack would Walker be given if he wasn't employed by a former teammate who has been a friend for over 20 years?

oeo
09-11-2007, 07:56 PM
Ozzie's OK I guess, but does this mean we're stuck with Walker and Baines??? :(:

Honestly, what is Harold Baines doing wrong? :?:

That's the biggest problem I have with Ozzie - the coaching staff is full of his buddies from his playing days. Will there ever be accountability for any of those guys?

JR loves Ozzie as a person so much that he's giving him an "A" in a season where we're sinking to the worst record in the league. Likewise, how bad do things have to get with the Sox before Walker, Baines, and/or Cora's effectiveness are called into question.

I'm not necessarily saying fired 'em all now - but how much slack would Walker be given if he wasn't employed by a former teammate who has been a friend for over 20 years?

I would agree, but he's fired a friend in Tim Raines.

viagracat
09-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Ozzie's cool. Most of the things that went wrong this year weren't really his fault. And JR loves the guy. Always has.

That's not to say he won't be gone if the Sox don't improve. I think his free pass from 2005, as it were, was used up this season. If the Sox don't improve in a hurry, he will be gone. It's the way it works, right or wrong.

But the signing will lead to some stability, which is never a bad thing.

thomas35forever
09-11-2007, 08:58 PM
Honestly, what is Harold Baines doing wrong? :?:

Being too quiet, of course!:tongue:

TommyJohn
09-11-2007, 09:17 PM
:moron
"Looks like I got my material for 4 more years. Thank you White Sox!"

Any guesses as to the Windsock's topic for tomorrow? :tongue:


All I can say is, "Yippee!"


Are you kidding? He is going to flip out and go on a Captain Queeg rant
about how Reinsdorf extended Guillen just to stick it to him personally.

Noneck
09-11-2007, 09:18 PM
What are the financial details: salary per year, option amount, buyout amount of this deal?

DickAllen72
09-11-2007, 09:31 PM
Honestly, what is Harold Baines doing wrong? :?:

Exactly what does he bring to the table?

BTW, who is the Sox' outfielder coach? Whoever it is hasn't been doing a very good job over the past couple of years considering the poor play, both mental and physical, of the outfielders.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 09:32 PM
What a complete joke. The Sox have their worst record in years and he gets a five year extension? I didn't want him to get a two year extension, let alone five. I guess this assures that Ozzie will never be fired.

1 of the few voices of reason, a 4 year extension, to the manager with a huge payroll and possibly the worst record in baseball. I hope that JR got a good deal.

Vernam
09-11-2007, 09:39 PM
This should put to rest any suggestion that the Sox are going to treat 2008 as a rebuilding year. Even Ozzie would probably admit he's not the right guy for that job.

I do think, however, that he's the right guy to get us back to the World Series. Kenny has to give him the horses, but I think Ozzie is ready to start re-earning his reputation for kicking ass and taking names. He went soft on the players after they gave him a championship -- understandable, but not a mistake he seems likely to repeat after 2007.

I'm looking for Ozzie and Kenny to make an example of one or two fairly big names for "not playing the game the right way." Getting rid of Pods will be the obvious move, but they've got to be tempted to dump Uribe with his pathetic OBP. Trouble is, it's way easier to dump guys than to find serviceable replacements. Still, I look for Ozzie to put his stamp on the team and roster, the way he and Kenny did in the off-season before 2005 -- if for no other reason than because neither of them could bear another season like this one. Maybe 2007 is leaving such a bad taste in everyone's mouth, it could be a blessing in disguise.

Vernam

FarWestChicago
09-11-2007, 09:50 PM
1 of the few voices of reason...:rolling:

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 09:58 PM
:rolling:

Are you enjoying last place that much? I'm not laughing at all.

ondafarm
09-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Great play, eh Mrs Lincoln?

A. Cavatica
09-11-2007, 10:17 PM
I can't think of a worse signal to send than to reward Ozzie with a long extension after the team's performance since mid-2006.

Horrible.

Patrick134
09-11-2007, 10:19 PM
I can't think of a worse signal to send than to reward Ozzie with a long extension after the team's performance since mid-2006.

Horrible.


Good point. This team really needs chaos and wondering who will be the manager on top of learning how to hit-pitch-field again.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 10:20 PM
I can't think of a worse signal to send than to reward Ozzie with a long extension after the team's performance since mid-2006.

Horrible.

Huge cosign.

A. Cavatica
09-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Good point. This team really needs chaos and wondering who will be the manager on top of learning how to hit-pitch-field again.

In this case, the only thing worse than not knowing who the manager is...is knowing who it is.

Tragg
09-11-2007, 10:21 PM
Hopefully he'll make some changes in the coaching staff. He needs someone on the staff who can teach some plate patience to the young hitters and develop them into major leaguers. Richar e.g. has nearly quit taking walks once he came up to the majors. Ozzie and Walker certainly didn't practice obp and patience as players, but Ozzie's slap hitters that he loves are useless if they can't take a walk. This team isn't hitting a lick and really hasn't all year and to completely immunize, if not reward, the coaching staff for c.65 wins is silly.

Until this year, I thought the team always played hard for Ozzie, for 162 games. That's about all I can expect from a manager, I guess. The only thing I really don't like about Guillen's managing are 1) his insistence on playing mediocre/lousy veteran ballplayers and 2)the affirmative decisions that Guillen made that decimated the Sox defense. and 3) what seems to be a disinterest in and/or inability to developing young talent. Several players marginalized. And who's getting better?

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 10:23 PM
In this case, the only thing worse than not knowing who the manager is...is knowing who it is.

Now this deserves.... the guy rolling on the floor laughing, nicely done.

FedEx227
09-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Great well get use to horrible coaches and guys out of position for another 5 years.

Yay rewarding/accepting mediocrity! :bandance::bandance:

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 10:40 PM
Great well get use to horrible coaches and guys out of position for another 5 years.

Yay rewarding/accepting mediocrity! :bandance::bandance:
MEDIOCRITY? That would be an improvement.

Patrick134
09-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Any manager that won a world series with Uribe as his shortstop deserves an extension.

SOXandILLINI
09-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Any manager that won a world series with Uribe as his shortstop deserves an extension.

That ends this argument. At least the northside weenies lost.

RockJock07
09-11-2007, 10:51 PM
I'm a little surprised by this move, especially given the years the extension is for, but I think more is going on behind closed doors here.

I think Ozzie told KW and JR that he needs players that fit is managerial style. Granted, he was given a team this year that was very good on paper and the reason that this team is awful is not Ozzie but the players themselves. But at rate, my guess, and it's just a guess, is that Ozzie wants speed, defense, and a bullpen, but that needed to be overhauled anyway. I think Ozzie said, do bother bringing me back if you're not gonna give me the players i know i can win with.

Besides, i'm really not sure who else was gonna be out there that i would want. Maybe Brenley, stone, but Stone doesn't seem interested in managing and brenley doesn't get me excited.

Lip Man 1
09-11-2007, 10:59 PM
Regarding the speculation on Mac, Jerko and Harry on JR. I can not find, nor have I heard any comments to this end from anyone either in the media or the folks that I know in the organization.

However considering that JR is 71 that would logically make sense. In 2012 he'd be 76.

Regarding handing things over to his son. Again I can only give you the information from the man himself. In May 2004 JR appeared on Chicago Tonight with Bob Sirott.

Sirott directly asked him if anyone if the family was interested in taking over and JR said no. (I have a tape copy of the interview). This dovetails with something told to me by Rich Lindberg who worked for the organization and knows people both in JR's ownership group and folks who worked with Bill Veeck.

Rich told me no one in the family is interested and in fact JR's wife has been urging him to sell for years.

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

FedEx227
09-11-2007, 11:03 PM
Regarding the speculation on Mac, Jerko and Harry on JR. I can not find, nor have I heard any comments to this end from anyone either in the media or the folks that I know in the organization.

However considering that JR is 71 that would logically make sense. In 2012 he'd be 76.

Regarding handing things over to his son. Again I can only give you the information from the man himself. In May 2004 JR appeared on Chicago Tonight with Bob Sirott.

Sirott directly asked him if anyone if the family was interested in taking over and JR said no. (I have a tape copy of the interview). This dovetails with something told to me by Rich Lindberg who worked for the organization and knows people both in JR's ownership group and folks who worked with Bill Veeck.

Rich told me no one in the family is interested and in fact JR's wife has been urging him to sell for years.

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip

I can see that being the case. I like Ozzie and I want him to be my last manager, it makes sense. Will it translate to great play on the field, we'll see. But I respect that.

Tragg
09-11-2007, 11:08 PM
I'm a little surprised by this move, especially given the years the extension is for, but I think more is going on behind closed doors here.

I think Ozzie told KW and JR that he needs players that fit is managerial style. Granted, he was given a team this year that was very good on paper and the reason that this team is awful is not Ozzie but the players themselves. I agree that Ozzie needs players that fit his style - it's williams' job to get him good ones.
This team really wasn't that good on paper. A lot of mediocre players added. Thin as can be. The bench was 100% utility level talent (aside from Hall). The team was obviously extremely vulnerable to injury. And a dubious bullpen on paper and in reality.

tstrike2000
09-12-2007, 06:00 AM
That's the biggest problem I have with Ozzie - the coaching staff is full of his buddies from his playing days. Will there ever be accountability for any of those guys?

JR loves Ozzie as a person so much that he's giving him an "A" in a season where we're sinking to the worst record in the league. Likewise, how bad do things have to get with the Sox before Walker, Baines, and/or Cora's effectiveness are called into question.

Those are good points as well. I wasn't particularly a fan either of giving Ozzie this long of an extension, but I too have also been curious about Cora, Walker, and Baines. Besides being a reunion of old buddies, though not bad guys, do they really provide any benefits to the team?

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2007, 06:17 AM
Hopefully he'll make some changes in the coaching staff. He needs someone on the staff who can teach some plate patience to the young hitters and develop them into major leaguers. Richar e.g. has nearly quit taking walks once he came up to the majors. Ozzie and Walker certainly didn't practice obp and patience as players, but Ozzie's slap hitters that he loves are useless if they can't take a walk. This team isn't hitting a lick and really hasn't all year and to completely immunize, if not reward, the coaching staff for c.65 wins is silly.

Until this year, I thought the team always played hard for Ozzie, for 162 games. That's about all I can expect from a manager, I guess. The only thing I really don't like about Guillen's managing are 1) his insistence on playing mediocre/lousy veteran ballplayers and 2)the affirmative decisions that Guillen made that decimated the Sox defense. and 3) what seems to be a disinterest in and/or inability to developing young talent. Several players marginalized. And who's getting better?

Excellent analysis. I agree on all points. Ozzie has his strengths and his weaknesses, just like any other manager. I would add one additional weakness: predictable bullpen management that does not seem to take performance into account. I certainly do NOT want a manager who makes all decisions according to stats. But it's apparent, for example, that Thornton is better against RHB than LHB. Yet Ozzie stubbornly sticks to the lefty-lefty and righty-righty matchups.

IlliniSox4Life
09-12-2007, 06:20 AM
Kenny Williams will be the GM until he resigns, or Jerry retires, Jerry will not fire him.

Regarding the speculation on Mac, Jerko and Harry on JR. I can not find, nor have I heard any comments to this end from anyone either in the media or the folks that I know in the organization.

However considering that JR is 71 that would logically make sense. In 2012 he'd be 76.

Regarding handing things over to his son. Again I can only give you the information from the man himself. In May 2004 JR appeared on Chicago Tonight with Bob Sirott.

Sirott directly asked him if anyone if the family was interested in taking over and JR said no. (I have a tape copy of the interview). This dovetails with something told to me by Rich Lindberg who worked for the organization and knows people both in JR's ownership group and folks who worked with Bill Veeck.

Rich told me no one in the family is interested and in fact JR's wife has been urging him to sell for years.

Take it for what it's worth.

Lip


I better start saving now. Is anybody interested in an investment opportunity in about 5 years?

Better yet, does Jerry have any attractive granddaughters?

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2007, 06:21 AM
Great play, eh Mrs Lincoln?

:rolling:

I know you really believe what you write, and that it's not schtick, but in the face of tremendous criticism I'm going to give you credit for sticking with it.

In all seriousness, I respect your opinion and the reasons you have for it.

Frater Perdurabo
09-12-2007, 06:22 AM
Better yet, does Jerry have any attractive granddaughters?

Why do they have to be attractive? Isn't next in line to own the Sox good enough? :redneck

IlliniSox4Life
09-12-2007, 06:28 AM
Why do they have to be attractive? Isn't next in line to own the Sox good enough? :redneck

I'm not satisfied anymore just making the playoffs. :redneck

RedHeadPaleHoser
09-12-2007, 06:43 AM
Lock Guillen up - done.

Help KW fund a team purchase that will give him majority ownership - in progress.

Sell team to KW in 2012 & move Ozzie to GM - in progress.

There - JR's master plan. Glad I could help. :D:

Bucky F. Dent
09-12-2007, 06:50 AM
GOOD.

I'm glad they did it. Now lets work the roster.

soxfan80
09-12-2007, 08:17 AM
Why lock him in for this long when you dont if the team will even be good NEXT YEAR?
If ozzie continues to regress, we'll have a situation WORSE than Manuel, since Ozzie will be locked in for 3 additional years past his 2009 option year.

delben91
09-12-2007, 08:51 AM
Why lock him in for this long when you dont if the team will even be good NEXT YEAR?
If ozzie continues to regress, we'll have a situation WORSE than Manuel, since Ozzie will be locked in for 3 additional years past his 2009 option year.

Managers get fired in the middle of contracts all the time. Locked in or not.

southside rocks
09-12-2007, 09:43 AM
I think this was a good move on JR's part. Ozzie and KW are the reason why I am a season ticket holder, and I will be one as long as they are here.

Sure glad to see that the team was fired up by the news and that it showed in their game last night.

kevin57
09-12-2007, 10:08 AM
I'll join the crowd of those not quite pleased with this decision. I do believe Ozzie (and Kenny) deserve some more rope, but if the Sox don't turn it around significantly next year, someone's got to walk the plank.

Also, I don't necessarily have a problem with the coaches being Ozzie's buds. I think that was an ingredient in the '05 success. That said, it is time that one or more of them walk the plank after this season.

If only players are held responsible for the debacle of this year, I'll be :angry:

kitekrazy
09-12-2007, 11:07 AM
I'll join the crowd of those not quite pleased with this decision. I do believe Ozzie (and Kenny) deserve some more rope, but if the Sox don't turn it around significantly next year, someone's got to walk the plank.

Also, I don't necessarily have a problem with the coaches being Ozzie's buds. I think that was an ingredient in the '05 success. That said, it is time that one or more of them walk the plank after this season.

If only players are held responsible for the debacle of this year, I'll be :angry:

I think they need to get rid of Walker for not having players work on bunting and blowing off the early season slump that hasn't ended. The player should be held responsible for 99% of this season.
The minors need to be revamped because so many of the young players seem clueless about the game of baseball. There's more to this game than hitting a ball over the fence and taking enhancement drugs.

oeo
09-12-2007, 11:18 AM
I think they need to get rid of Walker for not having players work on bunting and blowing off the early season slump that hasn't ended.

I've been thinking about the bunting problem, and I think the worst thing Ozzie could have done last Spring Training is put emphasis on it. When you're out on the field thinking, you're not going to get the job done. All this crap in Spring Training about working on it more just made the situation worse.

I think those drills should be thrown out the window. I find it hard to believe that a major league hitter can hit a 100 mph fastball, but not lay down a bunt. It's all mental; just don't emphasize it as much and I think they can get it done.

soxfanatlanta
09-12-2007, 11:22 AM
I've been thinking about the bunting problem, and I think the worst thing Ozzie could have done last Spring Training is put emphasis on it. When you're out on the field thinking, you're not going to get the job done. All this crap in Spring Training about working on it more just made the situation worse.

I cannot agree with that one. I know this is a simplified statement, but if you practice something enough, it should become second nature. You should be able to do it without thinking.

soxfan80
09-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Managers get fired in the middle of contracts all the time. Locked in or not.Jerr dosent like to pay people to do nothing. If the team is mediocre, Ozzie wont get canned until 2011

CLR01
09-12-2007, 12:18 PM
I cannot agree with that one. I know this is a simplified statement, but if you practice something enough, it should become second nature. You should be able to do it without thinking.

That's why you're not a major league manager. Everyone knows practice does nothing to help one become better at something and usually has the opposite effect. Just ask AI.

ondafarm
09-12-2007, 12:25 PM
That's why you're not a major league manager. Everyone knows practice does nothing to help one become better at something and usually has the opposite effect. Just ask AI.

Where are the teal police when you need them?

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2007, 02:33 PM
I've been thinking about the bunting problem, and I think the worst thing Ozzie could have done last Spring Training is put emphasis on it. When you're out on the field thinking, you're not going to get the job done. All this crap in Spring Training about working on it more just made the situation worse.I think this is the first time I've ever seen anybody make the argument that practicing a skill makes you worse at it. It's not like bunting is instinctive. You have to develop a feel for it.

soxfanatlanta
09-12-2007, 02:49 PM
That's why you're not a major league manager. Everyone knows practice does nothing to help one become better at something and usually has the opposite effect. Just ask AI.

I've been living a lie.

:tongue:

kitekrazy
09-12-2007, 04:22 PM
I've been thinking about the bunting problem, and I think the worst thing Ozzie could have done last Spring Training is put emphasis on it. When you're out on the field thinking, you're not going to get the job done. All this crap in Spring Training about working on it more just made the situation worse.


Do you really believe the B.S. that all the teams work on fundamentals in Spring training?

Hellen Keller could even tell they didn't work on bunting in Spring training.

kitekrazy
09-12-2007, 04:27 PM
I think this is the first time I've ever seen anybody make the argument that practicing a skill makes you worse at it. It's not like bunting is instinctive. You have to develop a feel for it.

I would nominated it for the "Einstein" post of the week.

There was a time in MLB, that even power hitters knew how to bunt. I watched Eddie Murray do it.

tick53
09-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Nice to know that Ozzie's gonna be with us for a long time. Not to sound redundant but again this season was not Ozzie's fault.

TDog
09-12-2007, 05:17 PM
I think this is the first time I've ever seen anybody make the argument that practicing a skill makes you worse at it. It's not like bunting is instinctive. You have to develop a feel for it.

Like the time I thought I would become really good at the piano if I didn't practice. And then I thought I would be even better if no one taught me how to play it. Then I sat down at the piano and found myself far on the wrong side of the line that separates music from noise.

Really, I doubt that Nellie Fox practiced bunting in the later years of his life, but I have no doubt he could have demonstrated in batting practice for others how to bunt. At one time, he practiced bunting until it became instinctive.

The day I got Fox's autograph in 1972 in Arlington, Texas, he was coaching for the Rangers. (Manager Ted Williams was the hitting coach but delegated bunting coaching to Fox.) Fox wasn't teaching bunting, though. He was working with the catcher after batting practice. Standing in the batter's box and facing center field with, I believe, Dick Billings crouched behind him, Fox hit fungo foul popups. Each came down just in front of the screen protecting the spectators behind home plate. Fox apparently believed that the catcher had to practice going back on foul pop ups. Had he not believed in practice, he wouldn't have had the incredible bat control to work with the catcher that day.

FarWestChicago
09-12-2007, 07:16 PM
Are you enjoying last place that much? I'm not laughing at all.I'm enjoying you calling a known goofball a voice of reason. :roflmao:

And you definitely need to work on developing a sense of humor. You are too young to go through life pissed off all the time. You'll have a heart attack before you hit middle age. :o:

A.T. Money
09-12-2007, 09:03 PM
Guillen never should have gotten an extension. Afterall, he did manage the Sox to a World Series title. He should have been canned after the 2005 season, since this championship would ruin the fans' *****fest and make them miserable.

I wonder what Cito Gasten is doing these days?

Take your plank, guantlet or whatever, and shove it up your pie hole.

TornLabrum
09-12-2007, 09:52 PM
I think this is the first time I've ever seen anybody make the argument that practicing a skill makes you worse at it. It's not like bunting is instinctive. You have to develop a feel for it.

You're obviously unaware of the age old saying, "Practice makes ****ty."

A. Cavatica
09-12-2007, 10:13 PM
A year ago I pointed out how similar Ozzie's track record is to Billy Martin's with Oakland:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1359106&postcount=8

Without revisiting my comparison of their personalities, I want to point out that the comparison of their track records looks even better today.

Martin:
1980 Oakland 162 83 79 .512 2
1981 Oakland 60 37 23 .617 1 First half
1981 Oakland 49 27 22 .551 2 Second half
1982 Oakland 162 68 94 .420 5

Ozzie:
2004 ChicagoW 162 83 79 .512 2
2005 ChicagoW 162 99 63 .611 WS 1
2006 ChicagoW 162 90 72 .556 3
2007 ChicagoW 145 61 84 .421 5

This is flat-out eerie.

Frontman
09-12-2007, 11:02 PM
You know, I have to laugh that folks are upset that with Ozzie's contract, the Sox don't have a lame duck manager. Had they not extended him; with him possibly on his way out the door the last day of the season, 2008; how would you expect the Sox to get free agents to sign here?

Free Agents want stability and pay. If the manager is on his way out, the whole system could change, there goes the stability. And since the Sox are not top tier in their contracts, those free agents wouldn't be getting the pay.

So again, why is it that we want Ozzie gone? So we can have ANOTHER 2007 season?

No, so far the 2008 Sox have started to be rebuilt. We got Mark, Jermaine, Javy (damn, was he good today) and Paulie signed for a few more years. You then give these guys the manager who led them to a championship. You've given them some stability. Now, you make the moves you need, and then hope to hell the moves you make pay off.

Otherwise, all the talk of getting a quality CF would of gone out the window if Ozzie wasn't re-upped. If JR and KW didn't give him a stamp of approval, who would want to play for him?

Grzegorz
09-13-2007, 04:51 AM
You know, I have to laugh that folks are upset that with Ozzie's contract, the Sox don't have a lame duck manager. Had they not extended him; with him possibly on his way out the door the last day of the season, 2008; how would you expect the Sox to get free agents to sign here?

Free Agents want stability and pay. If the manager is on his way out, the whole system could change, there goes the stability. And since the Sox are not top tier in their contracts, those free agents wouldn't be getting the pay.

So again, why is it that we want Ozzie gone? So we can have ANOTHER 2007 season?

No, so far the 2008 Sox have started to be rebuilt. We got Mark, Jermaine, Javy (damn, was he good today) and Paulie signed for a few more years. You then give these guys the manager who led them to a championship. You've given them some stability. Now, you make the moves you need, and then hope to hell the moves you make pay off.

Otherwise, all the talk of getting a quality CF would of gone out the window if Ozzie wasn't re-upped. If JR and KW didn't give him a stamp of approval, who would want to play for him?

Lets get Ozzie "his" type of team and see how it performs under his guidance. Then we can judge how good of a manger he really happens to be.

I'd never sign him to an extension. I would have waited to see how the team pulls out of the gate in 2008 before making that decision.

Free Agents (the biggies) come to a team for money, marketing potential, and probability of winning. Ozzie might play some role in getting free agents signed but I believe his attraction or star appeal to potential free agents is greatly overblown.

Frater Perdurabo
09-13-2007, 05:26 AM
You know, I have to laugh that folks are upset that with Ozzie's contract, the Sox don't have a lame duck manager. Had they not extended him; with him possibly on his way out the door the last day of the season, 2008; how would you expect the Sox to get free agents to sign here?

... Otherwise, all the talk of getting a quality CF would of gone out the window if Ozzie wasn't re-upped. If JR and KW didn't give him a stamp of approval, who would want to play for him?

Even before giving him this new extension, the Sox hold/held an option on Ozzie for 2009. If they wanted stability, JR and KW should have announced that Ozzie's 2009 option was being exercised. They should have waited until at least mid-2008 before extending him beyond the 2009 season.

SBSoxFan
09-13-2007, 09:08 AM
Free Agents (the biggies) come to a team for money, marketing potential, and probability of winning. Ozzie might play some role in getting free agents signed but I believe his attraction or star appeal to potential free agents is greatly overblown.

It seems Garcia's extension was largely due to Ozzie being there. Some have also suggested the chance to continue playing for Ozzie were influential in Buehrle and Dye resigning.

Actually what I'm most happy about is Ozzie's statement that he was too reserved this year, worrying about what people thought. And that he vowed to be himself in the years to come. I hope that attitude brings some more championships before it gets him fired. :redneck