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Randar68
04-09-2002, 09:00 PM
Again, I cannot watch the games from Korea, but could someone like Kermie and crew give me a breif rundown of how we looked today?

1) 2 good outings in a row for Danny. In hindsight, maybe shouldn't have come out for the 8th at 95 pitches, but who knew?
2) Frank and Maggs: Seems like they are starting to click. If I recall, it is a long way to left-center at Comerica, was that a bomb Frank hit?
3) Good to see MJ in there. Hasn't he started both Wright outings? He just seems to know how to call a game well and knows his pitchers, something I'm still not convinced Sandy can do.
4) Bottom of the order carried us today, any observations?

thanks in advance!

HawkDJ
04-09-2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by Randar68

2) Frank and Maggs: Seems like they are starting to click. If I recall, it is a long way to left-center at Comerica, was that a bomb Frank hit?

I believe it is 398 feet to left center.

CerberusWG
04-09-2002, 09:15 PM
Ok I saw the whole game:

1) Wright fell behind too many hitters. He was 3-0 at least three times, but made some really good 3-1 picthes. He hung some Curves, but some were nasty.

2) The ball Frank hit was a BOMB. When I heard the sound I knew it was gone.

3) PK, Maggs, Valentin missed HRs because of Comerica.

4) Higginson missed an HR because of Comerica.

5) Royce sucked.

6) Kenny showed his arm is 100%, almost threw out a guy going from 2nd to 3rd.

7) C Lee crushed a few balls foul.


Hope this helps.

Daver
04-09-2002, 09:16 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
Again, I cannot watch the games from Korea, but could someone like Kermie and crew give me a breif rundown of how we looked today?

1) 2 good outings in a row for Danny. In hindsight, maybe shouldn't have come out for the 8th at 95 pitches, but who knew?
2) Frank and Maggs: Seems like they are starting to click. If I recall, it is a long way to left-center at Comerica, was that a bomb Frank hit?
3) Good to see MJ in there. Hasn't he started both Wright outings? He just seems to know how to call a game well and knows his pitchers, something I'm still not convinced Sandy can do.
4) Bottom of the order carried us today, any observations?

thanks in advance!

Danny looked very sharp,and featured all 5 of his pitches,he came out for the usual reason,JM .

Frank still is not in the swing,but can still hit a hanger a ton,and did,Magglio is showing his usual traits.

Why Mark Johnson is not out there most days is beyond me,the payroll dictates that of course.

The bottom of the order had a good day,even Roids got a hit,though Lee in the seven hole and Johnson in the 8 did a good job.

JoeBatters
04-09-2002, 09:17 PM
Should have tuned into Sox-and-roll . We cover the whole game in a totally biased way with good pbp.

Danny wright looked great! Everyone was behind his fastball.
71\3 IP
5 hits , 2 runs, 4 k's No walks as far as i remember. At least none i see on the score sheet. lol

marte 2\3 inning 1 hit, 1 un earned run

Howry pitched the 9th, 3 up, 3 down , 1K.


Mark Johnson 3-5 carlos lee 2-4 2b 2 rbi

Valentin 3b, 1rbi

Maggs 3 hits, 2 runs scored, 2 doubles

Frank 2-4 HR, 2 rbi

0 errors, Lofton made one hell of a catch to end the game.

Final: 8-2 good guys!

Tune into us saturday

Jerry_Manuel
04-09-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Randar68
3) Good to see MJ in there. Hasn't he started both Wright outings? He just seems to know how to call a game well and knows his pitchers, something I'm still not convinced Sandy can do.

Manuel made mention awhile back that Alomar will catch Buehrle and Ritchie, while MJ catches the rest. So Sandy gets plenty of off days that way. Plus it gives MJ more work, which is good for next year. I haven't really paid to close attention, but it looks like Manuel has kept his word so far.

kermittheefrog
04-09-2002, 09:27 PM
1) 2 good outings in a row for Danny. In hindsight, maybe shouldn't have come out for the 8th at 95 pitches, but who knew?

I like the decision to let him start the 8th, he was throwing very very well and he deserved a chance to keep his shutout going. It also seemed like later in the game he was actually missing bats more than he was early in the game but he lost his command so it was for naught. Wright definitely had all three pitches working, he was throwing strikes and he was nasty. Even when he missed he missed well not throwing any fat pitches.

2) Frank and Maggs: Seems like they are starting to click. If I recall, it is a long way to left-center at Comerica, was that a bomb Frank hit?

Huge bomb by Frank, he looked very good at the plate today. He had some solid cuts agaisnt Sparks and did well taking the ball to right center against Farnsworth. He looks a lot more comfortable at the plate now than he did in Seattle.

Maggs' third double was also a bomb that would be a homer in just about any other park in baseball.

3) Good to see MJ in there. Hasn't he started both Wright outings? He just seems to know how to call a game well and knows his pitchers, something I'm still not convinced Sandy can do.

I've got some comments about Sandy but I'll save them for some of my upcoming content on WSI.

4) Bottom of the order carried us today, any observations?

Everyone looked good at the plate, maybe the Sox spent their off days working with Gary Ward in cages or maybe Detroit pitching just really sucks or both.

GASHWOUND
04-09-2002, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Manuel made mention awhile back that Alomar will catch Buehrle and Ritchie, while MJ catches the rest. So Sandy gets plenty of off days that way. Plus it gives MJ more work, which is good for next year. I haven't really paid to close attention, but it looks like Manuel has kept his word so far.

Hmm, why wouldn't JM want Sandy to catch the younger pitchers cause he has more experience, an MJ to catch Buehrle and Ritchie?

Randar68
04-09-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Manuel made mention awhile back that Alomar will catch Buehrle and Ritchie, while MJ catches the rest. So Sandy gets plenty of off days that way. Plus it gives MJ more work, which is good for next year. I haven't really paid to close attention, but it looks like Manuel has kept his word so far.

Thanks guys, that helps a lot.

As far as Sandy goes, Ritchie and Buehrle are good enough to pitch over Sandy, so I think that is ok. I really like the way MJ works with the young guys. He knows when to slow it down, and give them some time as well as when to just push them to get it and throw it. Everyday I get to watch MJ catch, the more I like him.

PS, MJ has the best average on the team right now...LOL!

Daver
04-09-2002, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Hmm, why wouldn't JM want Sandy to catch the younger pitchers cause he has more experience, an MJ to catch Buehrle and Ritchie?

Because Sandy will not be here next year.

GASHWOUND
04-09-2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I like the decision to let him start the 8th, he was throwing very very well and he deserved a chance to keep his shutout going. It also seemed like later in the game he was actually missing bats more than he was early in the game but he lost his command so it was for naught. Wright definitely had all three pitches working, he was throwing strikes and he was nasty. Even when he missed he missed well not throwing any fat pitches.



Huge bomb by Frank, he looked very good at the plate today. He had some solid cuts agaisnt Sparks and did well taking the ball to right center against Farnsworth. He looks a lot more comfortable at the plate now than he did in Seattle.

Maggs' third double was also a bomb that would be a homer in just about any other park in baseball.



I've got some comments about Sandy but I'll save them for some of my upcoming content on WSI.



Everyone looked good at the plate, maybe the Sox spent their off days working with Gary Ward in cages or maybe Detroit pitching just really sucks or both.

I agree with everything you said, but it bothers me when Frank pops up weakly to the infield, which he did once today. And everytime MJ gets in the game he produces, he's become a way better hitter than I'd ever imagined.
But you also have to consider that Detroit does suck, and we should take these wins cautiously. You know what I'm saying?
But a win is a win. and I hope we sweep so we can get over .500.

Randar68
04-09-2002, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by GASHWOUND


Hmm, why wouldn't JM want Sandy to catch the younger pitchers cause he has more experience, an MJ to catch Buehrle and Ritchie?

Over-rated....

:sandy
"I've never really believed in all that catchers who call good games. It's up to the pitchers..."

kermittheefrog
04-09-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


Over-rated....

:sandy
"I've never really believed in all that catchers who call good games. It's up to the pitchers..."

For as much as I don't like Sandy I completely agree with that and there are numbers to back it up.

HawkDJ
04-09-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Ok I saw the whole game:
5) Royce sucked.

Uh, I wouldn't say 1-3 with 2 rbi's and a double is sucking. I know it wasn't good but honestly what does he need to do to not suck? Konerko went 0-5 but the thought probably never crossed your mind that he sucked.

doublem23
04-09-2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2


Uh, I wouldn't say 1-3 with 2 rbi's and a double is sucking. I know it wasn't good but honestly what does he need to do to not suck? Konerko went 0-5 but the thought probably never crossed your mind that he sucked.

No, because Walnuts is good, while Babe Klayton, well... he just sucks.

:hitless
Hey, one more game like this and I'll nearly be halfway to the Mendoza Line!

RedPinStripes
04-09-2002, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2


Uh, I wouldn't say 1-3 with 2 rbi's and a double is sucking. I know it wasn't good but honestly what does he need to do to not suck? Konerko went 0-5 but the thought probably never crossed your mind that he sucked.

See how ugly his other ab's were . he sucks and please don't try to defend a guy batting under .100.

Randar68
04-09-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


For as much as I don't like Sandy I completely agree with that and there are numbers to back it up.

I like stats as much as the next guy, but how can something so intangible be measured by numbers, but there I go again, trying to use logic with a stathead! LOL!

kermittheefrog
04-09-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


I like stats as much as the next guy, but how can something so intangible be measured by numbers, but there I go again, trying to use logic with a stathead! LOL!

Glad you asked: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20000110woolner.html

Randar68
04-09-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


Glad you asked: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20000110woolner.html

Man of these kinds of these, while using stats, are subjective in their construction. If someone does 4 or 5 types of these studies and only publishes the one method that proves his point, what does it mean? This guy takes out defensive capabilities such as passed balls/wild Pitches as well as batters thrown out/total bases. IMO these are more valuable measures of a catcher's capability. If you notice the Benito Santiago example, hitters had much lower BB and Slg% numbers with him behind the plate.

"Stats can be construed to mean whatever the author wants them to if he knows how to manipulate them properly."
- Stats 101

Tragg
04-10-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by daver


Because Sandy will not be here next year.

Then we should quit wasting time and go ahead and let :versatile our future at catcher take all the pitchers:

kermittheefrog
04-10-2002, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Randar68


Man of these kinds of these, while using stats, are subjective in their construction. If someone does 4 or 5 types of these studies and only publishes the one method that proves his point, what does it mean?


Uhm Randar, he didn't start with a point to prove he started with a question. Sabermetrics isn't the search to be right it's research on baseball. His study would have just as much impact if he proved there was a gamecalling ability. You can't just assume he started out to prove something because he didn't.

Randar68
04-10-2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
Uhm Randar, he didn't start with a point to prove he started with a question. Sabermetrics isn't the search to be right it's research on baseball. His study would have just as much impact if he proved there was a gamecalling ability. You can't just assume he started out to prove something because he didn't.


I understand this generally, but unless you know the guy and his intentions, how can you definitively know his intentions or agendas?

The WAY he measured things seemed to show little correllation, but the names in the career lists are generally the ones I would have expected to be there.....

Also, Catcher is maybe the hardest thing to quantify because catchers rarely share time 50/50 with pitchers, the sample space is in question, and it is heavily dependant upon the guy throwing you the ball. Pitchers and catchers across the league don't have identifying and linking commonalities between them.

IT IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to quantify the skills of catchers against other catchers because the position is nearly entirely dependant upon an element that is uncommon between the desired subjects. Thus the results which show little to no correlation.


And one last point, I guarantee the guy who did that story has never caught one inning of a meaningful baseball game.

Soxboyrob
04-10-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by daver

Danny looked very sharp,and featured all 5 of his pitches,he came out for the usual reason,JM .

Why Mark Johnson is not out there most days is beyond me,the payroll dictates that of course.



I'm not ready to ride the Wright bandwagon just yet. He pitched well, but he also gave up some deeply hit balls that are out of most parks or at least off the wall for extra bases. Overall, a very nicely pitched game for Danny. He's spotting the ball exceptionally well, constantly busting hitters on the fist w/ the moving Fastball.

voodoochile
04-10-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


Then we should quit wasting time and go ahead and let :versatile our future at catcher take all the pitchers:

I assume you just forgot the teal...

HawkDJ
04-10-2002, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


See how ugly his other ab's were . he sucks and please don't try to defend a guy batting under .100.

Like I said, I know it wasn't good, but if 2 rbi's is sucking than I don't know what to think. I'm not saying he is good or anything but its getting ridiculous how he can do anything and suck to you guys. And by not sucking I don't mean good, I just want to clarify that again.

HawkDJ
04-10-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by doublem23


No, because Walnuts is good, while Babe Klayton, well... he just sucks.

:hitless
Hey, one more game like this and I'll nearly be halfway to the Mendoza Line!

I was talking about this game, not in general.