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Tragg
09-09-2007, 04:00 PM
Defense Matters.
Lots of infield openings on this club next year.

Daver
09-09-2007, 04:01 PM
They need a left fielder too.

soxwon
09-09-2007, 04:02 PM
Another Reverand game, another loss.
3-11 now lost something like 8 in a row.
i did see 2 wins in july.

JermaineDye05
09-09-2007, 04:03 PM
They need a left fielder too.

They also need a buyer for Crede. Hopefully the Sox can make a move to acquire a good CF be it Crawford, Hunter, Rowand, etc. then they could move Owens to Left.

Lip Man 1
09-09-2007, 04:09 PM
82 losses. The first 'official' losing season since 1999.

You knew sooner or later it was going to happen again but only two years removed from a World Series championship.....simply stunning.

Oh and they STILL can't beat Santana (or Sabathia). Not exactly condusive to 'contending' again in the division when you can basically automatically chalk up seven losses or so to those two guys every year.

Lip

LITTLE NELL
09-09-2007, 04:15 PM
Cintron makes me puke, Gonzalez makes me throw up.Can anyone play 3B.

kittle42
09-09-2007, 04:21 PM
then they could move Owens to Charlotte.

Fixed it.

WSox597
09-09-2007, 04:28 PM
You could hear the boos and catcalls when Cintron made his second error. Looks like the fans have had enough of the Cintron experiment.

The experiment where the major league club tries to find a position, any postion, where this man can play at the major league level. Because he's "versatile".

It looks like the fans have had enough of Gonzalez, too. How can you blame them? Gonzalez is "versatile", too.

Versatile must be newspeak for "can't play baseball."



Should be a real interesting off-season, and it can't come soon enough.

Daver
09-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Cintron makes me puke, Gonzalez makes me throw up.Can anyone play 3B.

The left fielder isn't terrible at third.

JermaineDye05
09-09-2007, 04:31 PM
Fixed it.

then who plays Left? unless the Sox plan on signing a CF and trading for a LF I don't see anyone on the club going into Left maybe Erstad. Josh isn't going to be in Left in 2008 for majority of the season, Crede will more then likely (perhaps that might be the other OF'er then that we trade for) be traded and Josh will go into 3rd

LITTLE NELL
09-09-2007, 04:31 PM
The left fielder isn't terrible at third.
Lets hope that Crede can come back 100%.

chisoxmike
09-09-2007, 04:32 PM
then they could move Owens to Left.

Why do a lot of people on here like sacrificing defense?

They need a new LF & CF. Fields should be nowhere near LF, and Owens should be nowhere near the roster in 2008.

Daver
09-09-2007, 04:36 PM
Why do a lot of people on here like sacrificing defense?

They need a new LF & CF. Fields should be nowhere near LF, and Owens should be nowhere near the roster in 2008.

Actually, Owens in left is not a bad move, if he is batting at the bottom of the order.

MarySwiss
09-09-2007, 04:42 PM
The left fielder isn't terrible at third.

Exactly! Why was Cintron even playing third? He's a back-up shortstop or second baseman.

Somebody please slap Ozzie!

steveo_88(UK)
09-09-2007, 04:52 PM
Im an outsider looking in but alot of people seem to be saying why are players playing out of position or somewhere they have never been able to do a job. I know Ozzie may have final say on players who play and positions. But surely the coaching staff has some input on players playing in positions and who starts?

TDog
09-09-2007, 05:27 PM
Exactly! Why was Cintron even playing third? He's a back-up shortstop or second baseman.

Somebody please slap Ozzie!

Obviously, the White Sox are looking at Crede returning next year and are impressed enough with Fields' offense that they are playing him in left field, a position he has never played professionally before this season, in hopes that he will learn it for next season. If the Sox were interested in moving Crede in the off-season, they would be playing Fields at third to gain experience there.

These are the logical possibilities, more logical than the Sox attempting to increase Crede's value by making it appear they are so confident Crede will return as an important member of the team defensively and offensively that they aren't stunting the defensive progress of the man who would be replacing him in a trade.

GlassSox
09-09-2007, 05:35 PM
Just got home from the game, :mad:. How much longer do we have to endure Cintron? When is the experiment ovah? Two more errors today for a total of 4 in the last 3 games and then stealing 2nd base and then getting tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. :angry:

Kenny, find someone to play 3rd.

StillMissOzzie
09-09-2007, 05:45 PM
Just got home from the game, :mad:. How much longer do we have to endure Cintron? When is the experiment ovah? Two more errors today for a total of 4 in the last 3 games and then stealing 2nd base and then getting tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. :angry:

Kenny, find someone to play 3rd.

Me too. Between watching that game earlier and just now watching LT punch in a TD, this has not been a fun day for me. :whiner:
Hang today's loss on Cintron's iron glove, four of those five runs are unearned. I would not have been surprised to see Garland give Cintron a forearm shiver and taken that popup himself, as he did earlier in the game, rather than risk letting Cintron take it. :o:
And that baserunning gaffe earlier didn't earn him any brownie points.
At least I got to see Thome's 498th HR :D:

SMO
:gulp:

Hitmen77
09-09-2007, 06:11 PM
Look on the bright side - just imagine how many more games we could win next year without Cintron and/or Gonzalez giving the other team 3 or 4 unearned runs.

So, why did we trade Mackowiak for an unimpressive A pitcher? Wouldn't he look much better at 3B than the butchers we are running out there now?

Brian26
09-09-2007, 06:13 PM
They also need a buyer for Crede. Hopefully the Sox can make a move to acquire a good CF be it Crawford, Hunter, Rowand, etc. then they could move Owens to Left.

Right now, I think Kenny has to seriously consider bringing Crede back if things are looking ok with his recovery.

Crawford's not really a centerfielder. I think the Sox will make a run for Hunter.

Brian26
09-09-2007, 06:14 PM
Oh and they STILL can't beat Santana (or Sabathia). Not exactly condusive to 'contending' again in the division when you can basically automatically chalk up seven losses or so to those two guys every year.

Lip

What's frustrating is that this was a winnable game. Santana didn't dominate. The Sox defense cost them the game.

Brian26
09-09-2007, 06:15 PM
You could hear the boos and catcalls when Cintron made his second error. Looks like the fans have had enough of the Cintron experiment.

The boos were loudest when he struck out in the 9th inning. Even though the crowd had dwindled, they let him have it.

GlassSox
09-09-2007, 06:15 PM
Me too. Between watching that game earlier and just now watching LT punch in a TD, this has not been a fun day for me. :whiner:
Hang today's loss on Cintron's iron glove, four of those five runs are unearned. I would not have been surprised to see Garland give Cintron a forearm shiver and taken that popup himself, as he did earlier in the game, rather than risk letting Cintron take it. :o:
And that baserunning gaffe earlier didn't earn him any brownie points.
At least I got to see Thome's 498th HR :D:

SMO
:gulp:

Yes it was good to witness Thome's 498th HR :cool: ...and Garland did pitch pretty well.

RadioheadRocks
09-09-2007, 06:15 PM
Just got home from the game, :mad:. How much longer do we have to endure Cintron? When is the experiment ovah? Two more errors today for a total of 4 in the last 3 games and then stealing 2nd base and then getting tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. :angry:

Kenny, find someone to play 3rd.


No argument here. If nothing else this series established that Cintron at third is as useless as a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest.

soxinem1
09-09-2007, 06:17 PM
Cintron makes me puke, Gonzalez makes me throw up.Can anyone play 3B.

Having been there in person today, I can honestly say Cintron looked like he didn't have a ****ing clue.

Unreal.

Garland showed his usual composure too. He's another one that can take a flying hike.

Brian26
09-09-2007, 06:20 PM
Im an outsider looking in but alot of people seem to be saying why are players playing out of position or somewhere they have never been able to do a job. I know Ozzie may have final say on players who play and positions. But surely the coaching staff has some input on players playing in positions and who starts?

Of course the coaching staff has a say. What's going on is that three guys are auditioning for 2008 jobs at specific positions, and it doesn't give Ozzie a lot of flexibility. Owens is auditioning in CF, Fields in LF, and Uribe at SS.

The fact that Uribe is playing so many games at SS as opposed to putting Gonzalez there is a clear indication that they're considering bringing him back. This is also the reason Cintron and Gonzalez are getting so much time at 3b.

TDog
09-09-2007, 06:20 PM
They also need a buyer for Crede. Hopefully the Sox can make a move to acquire a good CF be it Crawford, Hunter, Rowand, etc. then they could move Owens to Left.

I understand the love for Crawford because he is a great player to have on your fantasy team, although I find fantasy baseball compromises rooting interests. The problem is, Crawford isn't a very smart player and doesn't help his team win in the long run.

The point is moot as his is the type of player the Devil Rays would want to hold onto.

santo=dorf
09-09-2007, 06:20 PM
then who plays Left? unless the Sox plan on signing a CF and trading for a LF I don't see anyone on the club going into Left maybe Erstad. Josh isn't going to be in Left in 2008 for majority of the season, Crede will more then likely (perhaps that might be the other OF'er then that we trade for) be traded and Josh will go into 3rd
A free agent signing plays left. Owens should be moved to the Herb Washington role.

Daver
09-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Garland showed his usual composure too. He's another one that can take a flying hike.

He pitched into the eighth inning with no one behind him able to make a play, and you want to blame him?

It's a damn good thing you don't make personnel decisions for the White Sox.

Tragg
09-09-2007, 06:25 PM
Exactly! Why was Cintron even playing third? He's a back-up shortstop or second baseman.

Somebody please slap Ozzie!

Cintron's not very good at SS or 2nd either. They want Fields in left, so they have no one else for 3rd. Cintron (or Gonzalez) it is.

Fields is clumsy in left.

Owens would be okay for left in the Podsednik sense - slap his way on at a .340 obp.

Brian26
09-09-2007, 06:25 PM
He pitched into the eighth inning with no one behind him able to make a play, and you want to blame him?

It's a damn good thing you don't make personnel decisions for the White Sox.

Garland pitched a hell of a game. He gave up five lousy hits through eight innings and one earned run.

santo=dorf
09-09-2007, 06:28 PM
He pitched into the eighth inning with no one behind him able to make a play, and you want to blame him?

It's a damn good thing you don't make personnel decisions for the White Sox.
The Sox will need more pitchers who put up league average numbers and make $12 million a year in order to compete next season.

Unless this team goes on a spending spree like the Cubs this offseason, they are more than one year away from competing. Garland is a free agent after 2008, so there's no point in having him pitch here next season.

Daver
09-09-2007, 06:34 PM
The Sox will need more pitchers who put up league average numbers and make $12 million a year in order to compete next season.

Unless this team goes on a spending spree like the Cubs this offseason, they are more than one year away from competing. Garland is a free agent after 2008, so there's no point in having him pitch here next season.

Yeah I know, pitchers that don't get hurt and throw over two hundred innings a year grow on trees, you can find them everywhere.

GlassSox
09-09-2007, 06:35 PM
He pitched into the eighth inning with no one behind him able to make a play, and you want to blame him?

It's a damn good thing you don't make personnel decisions for the White Sox.

Well said, nothing at all wrong with John Garland today. The only possible thing John could have done differently was to play 3rd and pitch at the same time.

santo=dorf
09-09-2007, 07:05 PM
Yeah I know, pitchers that don't get hurt and throw over two hundred innings a year grow on trees, you can find them everywhere.
A rebuilding team does not need to pay $12 million for 200 innings of inconsistent pitching that results in average numbers.

Last year there were 44 pitchers who threw at least 200 innings.
There were 57 that threw at least at least 190 innings.
8 of those 57 were free agents after the year, 3 of them were traded in the offseason, and 1 was traded during this year.

What's so impressive about that?

Grzegorz
09-09-2007, 07:16 PM
Unless this team goes on a spending spree like the Cubs this offseason, they are more than one year away from competing.

There are no guarantees in life so competing much less winning cannot be taken as a given. By the way, what kind of return have the spendthrifts up on the north side achieved?

Garland is a free agent after 2008, so there's no point in having him pitch here next season.

If that is the case then blow up the entire show and start from scratch.

Daver
09-09-2007, 07:20 PM
A rebuilding team does not need to pay $12 million for 200 innings of inconsistent pitching that results in average numbers.

Last year there were 44 pitchers who threw at least 200 innings.
There were 57 that threw at least at least 190 innings.
8 of those 57 were free agents after the year, 3 of them were traded in the offseason, and 1 was traded during this year.

What's so impressive about that?

Suffice it to say, your knowledge on how to build a winning baseball team could fit on the head of a pin.

This is not fantasy baseball.

kitekrazy
09-09-2007, 07:21 PM
Don't they try to trade Garland every season?

Lip Man 1
09-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Perhaps of more interest are these comments from Ozzie to Dave Van Dyke of the Tribune. One seems particularly harsh towards Joe Crede, the other explains Ozzie's take on defense and why he is being forced to do what he is:

Feel free to discuss:

"We hope we can win with Joe Crede, but at the same time I don't want to do Joe Crede a favor to play him one year and all of a sudden he leaves us [via free agency]. If he is ready to play and in a White Sox uniform, he will play. But he has to produce and do well. I'm not going to rehab him here and all of a sudden we don't know what we're going to do the year after."
---
"People say I talk about defense because I couldn't hit. But defense is important because it can change the game. It means a pitcher has to throw 10-12 more pitches and that's one less inning every outing. I wish we could cut down on errors and play better defense for our pitching staff."

When asked why Cintron was playing third, Guillen replied: "My other choice is not that great either. [Andy] Gonzalez has struggled in the field, too."

Lip

Grzegorz
09-09-2007, 07:33 PM
The Cubs are contending in a bad division. They went from cellar dwellers to first place conteders.

For the amount of money spent their results have been subpar to say the least.

The entire team shouldn't be blown up because you still need some veteran leadership. Two years from now I rather have Buehrle and Vazquez in the rotation with two developing youngsters instead of 4 youngsters in the rotation.

Why is trading Garland the key? Is it because he'd command the best return?

We currently have holes at left, center, third (crede is a ? and Fields apparently won't play there,) short, second, backup catcher, bench, about 60% of the bullpen and 40% of the starting rotation

Trading Garland means the Chicago White Sox would have two solid starters based on 2007 performances. How does this help the team compete in '08?

santo=dorf
09-09-2007, 07:34 PM
There are no guarantees in life so competing much less winning cannot be taken as a given. By the way, what kind of return have the spendthrifts up on the north side achieved?



If that is the case then blow up the entire show and start from scratch.
The Cubs are contending in a bad division. They went from cellar dwellers to playing meaningful games in September.

The entire team shouldn't be blown up because you still need some veteran leadership. Two years from now I rather have Buehrle and Vazquez in the rotation with two developing youngsters instead of 4 youngsters in the rotation.

We currently have holes at left, center, third (crede is a ? and Fields apparently won't play there,) short, second, bench, about 60% of the bullpen and 40% of the starting rotation

This team needs an enema but it should be built around Buehrle, Vazquez, Konerko, and for the next two seasons, AJ, Dye and Thome.

Daver, you clearly are stubborn around statstics and apparently are forced to make snide remarks that related nothing to the argument. Nobody is stating fantasy arguments here.
You claim 200 innings pitchers don't "grow on trees" yet I showed you there were 44 guys who did it last year. There were enough men to fill two full rotations of innings eaters last year who were either free agents or moved by their 2006 teams.

You made a claim, and the numbers disagree with you. Jon Garland is what he is. He eats up a lot of innings, but in the end he has average results. I don't think that is worth $12 million in a year in which I don't expect the Sox to be contending. This is where you and I disagree.

santo=dorf
09-09-2007, 07:38 PM
For the amount of money spent their results have been subpar to say the least.
They're contending and have been in first place pretty late into the season. As the Cardinals showed last season, if you get it in, anything can happen.
Why is trading Garland the key? Is it because he'd command the best return?
Yes, and he is going to be a free agent after 2008. It'd be like the Garcia trade this past winter.

Trading Garland means the Chicago White Sox would have two solid starters based on 2007 performances. How does this help the team compete in '08?
It allows the Sox to spend money in other places to help improve the team. You create one hole to fill two others. This also opens up a spot for one of our youngsters to show something. A lot of these guys are running out of options so the Sox better get their money worth before they lose them for nothing.

Daver
09-09-2007, 07:41 PM
You made a claim, and the numbers disagree with you. Jon Garland is what he is. He eats up a lot of innings, but in the end he has average results. I don't think that is worth $12 million in a year in which I don't expect the Sox to be contending. This is where you and I disagree.

Take your numbers and shove them, they don't matter, your using numbers on a lost season. The point is, Jon Garland is consistent, and he does not get hurt. The worst thing that can happen to a team is injuries in the starting rotation. How many of the guys you found that tossed two hundred innings have done it for four consecutive seasons?

This isn't fantasy baseball, and your knowledge of building a team still wouldn't fill the head of a pin.

TomParrish79
09-09-2007, 07:46 PM
ehhhhh it happens...usually alot more when Santana pitches

Grzegorz
09-09-2007, 07:56 PM
They're contending and have been in first place pretty late into the season. As the Cardinals showed last season, if you get it in, anything can happen.

For the money spent, the north side baseball club is underachieving...

Yes, and he is going to be a free agent after 2008. It'd be like the Garcia trade this past winter.


Garcia was clearly having physical issues; Garland is not. Even so, who assumes Garland's role in the rotation? On paper, how is the 2008 starting staff better than the 2007 staff? You're still rolling the dice on a youngster. A risky proposition for a team drawing a line in the sand and declaring themselves as real contenders in '08.

You create one hole to fill two others.

Starting pitching, to me, is weighted differently than that of position ballplayers.

Regardless of what those witless baboons running the game would have you believe, pitching and defense are the most important components when building a winning team.

RowanDye
09-09-2007, 08:13 PM
Yeaaa, White Sox baseball. Why can't this team just get over it and have some fun the rest of the year? Oh yea I forgot, they don't really have enough talent to field a full team.

We better not **** up the draft this year.

For the money spent, the north side baseball club is underachieving...

<snip>

Regardless of what those witless baboons running the game would have you believe, pitching and defense are the most important components when building a winning team.

They're especially underachieving if you take into account the truckload of cash they gave to Zambono.

Good pitching and defense are nice, but you don't win games without scoring runs. I'd rather have a good balance of run producers and above average defenders than a bunch of great defenders that can't hit.

Grzegorz
09-09-2007, 08:57 PM
Perhaps of more interest are these comments from Ozzie to Dave Van Dyke of the Tribune. One seems particularly harsh towards Joe Crede, the other explains Ozzie's take on defense and why he is being forced to do what he is:

Feel free to discuss:

"We hope we can win with Joe Crede, but at the same time I don't want to do Joe Crede a favor to play him one year and all of a sudden he leaves us [via free agency]. If he is ready to play and in a White Sox uniform, he will play. But he has to produce and do well. I'm not going to rehab him here and all of a sudden we don't know what we're going to do the year after."
---Lip

Ozzie, you do not have a choice but to rehab him. When you rehab him and if he plays well you have the opportunity to:
* sign him
* trade him

Generally speaking in life it's good to have long term plans and contingencies to those plans.

Good pitching and defense are nice, but you don't win games without scoring runs. I'd rather have a good balance of run producers and above average defenders than a bunch of great defenders that can't hit.

I didn't say that pitching and defense were the only components to building a winning ball club. I said pitching and defense were the most important components to building a winning ball club.

MCHSoxFan
09-09-2007, 09:28 PM
What's frustrating is that this was a winnable game. Santana didn't dominate. The Sox defense cost them the game.

Exactly!!! I told my grandmother that if Alex did not make that error, it would have been tied at two. And, as you saw on Friday night, we could have won it in extras. Santana was NOT that good today.

THAT IS WHY I AM JUST SOOOO MAAAAD!!! :angry:

GlassSox
09-09-2007, 09:40 PM
Exactly!!! I told my grandmother that if Alex did not make that error, it would have been tied at two. And, as you saw on Friday night, we could have won it in extras. Santana was NOT that good today.

THAT IS WHY I AM JUST SOOOO MAAAAD!!! :angry:

I agree. We were at the game and when Cintron made that error I told her "there goes this game".

thomas35forever
09-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Cintron screwed up on both sides today. I assume he left after the baserunning blunder to a chorus of boos from the crowd. KW, like Gonzalez, I do not want A.C. on the roster next year.

JB98
09-09-2007, 11:34 PM
Just got home from the game, :mad:. How much longer do we have to endure Cintron? When is the experiment ovah? Two more errors today for a total of 4 in the last 3 games and then stealing 2nd base and then getting tagged out between 2nd and 3rd. :angry:

Kenny, find someone to play 3rd.

It's not an experiment. Let's not act as if the Sox are looking at Cintron as a viable option for third in 2008. It's a stopgap measure. The only reason Cintron is there is because they are looking at Fields as a LF. It's that simple. Who gives a **** if we lost today? The season was over in June. The Sox brass needs to see some things in order to make good decisions this offseason. Why is that so hard to understand?

Fields in LF is an experiment. Cintron is at 3B only because there isn't anybody else. It is costing us games here late in 2007, but so what? The horse is out of the barn.

JB98
09-09-2007, 11:38 PM
Take your numbers and shove them, they don't matter, your using numbers on a lost season. The point is, Jon Garland is consistent, and he does not get hurt. The worst thing that can happen to a team is injuries in the starting rotation. How many of the guys you found that tossed two hundred innings have done it for four consecutive seasons?

This isn't fantasy baseball, and your knowledge of building a team still wouldn't fill the head of a pin.

As I've posted previously, I think any trade of Jon Garland signals that 2008 is a rebuilding year.

If we are going to contend next season, Jon has to be a part of it. If Garland, Buehrle and Vazquez are still in the rotation, we've got a shot. But if we have Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks and a question mark, we better hope for a lot of rainouts when the back of our rotation is scheduled to pitch.

Foulke You
09-10-2007, 01:08 AM
As I've posted previously, I think any trade of Jon Garland signals that 2008 is a rebuilding year.

If we are going to contend next season, Jon has to be a part of it. If Garland, Buehrle and Vazquez are still in the rotation, we've got a shot. But if we have Buehrle, Vazquez, Contreras, Danks and a question mark, we better hope for a lot of rainouts when the back of our rotation is scheduled to pitch.
Excellent post. It's amazing how quick people are to give up on a back to back 18 game winner who eats tons of innings. Garland has had a rough year but that makes him no different than most of the players on the '07 White Sox. In '08, if the Sox #4 starter is Danks and our #5 is Floyd/Broadway/Gio...how can we compete with an Indians team that has Sabathia/Carmona/Byrd/Westbrook/Lee or Detroit's Durbin/Robertson/Verlander/Rogers/Bonderman? The answer is we don't and we'd be fighting for 3rd with Minnesota unless Floyd, Gio or Broadway become an instant phenom. If we are to compete in '08, then Garland has to be part of it.

LITTLE NELL
09-10-2007, 06:09 AM
Perhaps of more interest are these comments from Ozzie to Dave Van Dyke of the Tribune. One seems particularly harsh towards Joe Crede, the other explains Ozzie's take on defense and why he is being forced to do what he is:

Feel free to discuss:

"We hope we can win with Joe Crede, but at the same time I don't want to do Joe Crede a favor to play him one year and all of a sudden he leaves us [via free agency]. If he is ready to play and in a White Sox uniform, he will play. But he has to produce and do well. I'm not going to rehab him here and all of a sudden we don't know what we're going to do the year after."
---
"People say I talk about defense because I couldn't hit. But defense is important because it can change the game. It means a pitcher has to throw 10-12 more pitches and that's one less inning every outing. I wish we could cut down on errors and play better defense for our pitching staff."

When asked why Cintron was playing third, Guillen replied: "My other choice is not that great either. [Andy] Gonzalez has struggled in the field, too."

Lip
I really dont understand what Ozzie is saying. My guess is that if Crede is OK in the spring, that the Sox will trade him rather than sign him. If that is the case what the hell is Fields doing in left field, Id rather see him gain experience at 3B. Its easier to find a good Left fielder than a good 3rd baseman.

WSox597
09-10-2007, 06:40 AM
I really dont understand what Ozzie is saying.

Yes, I have that same experience at every press conference. Imagine how the players must feel.

santo=dorf
09-10-2007, 05:30 PM
Take your numbers and shove them, they don't matter, your using numbers on a lost season. The point is, Jon Garland is consistent, and he does not get hurt. The worst thing that can happen to a team is injuries in the starting rotation. How many of the guys you found that tossed two hundred innings have done it for four consecutive seasons?

This isn't fantasy baseball, and your knowledge of building a team still wouldn't fill the head of a pin.
YOU brought up the arbitrary numbers of 200 innings pitch and the number of years he has done it. YOU tried to claim there aren't many pitchers durable pitchers that throw 200 innings a year and when I did your homework and looked up the actual numbers, you throw a hissy fit using a lame insult on the level of some independent wrestler cutting a weak promo.

YOU also made a false claim in saying that Garland has throw 200 innings for four consecutive seasons. He's done it for three. I briefly looked at the stats, and no surprise, there are a quite a few durable horses that have eaten up the innings like Garland. In case your (sic) interested in the actual numbers, here's the link. (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/historical/player_stats.jsp?teamPosCode=all&statType=2&timeFrame=1&Submit=Submit&c_id=cws&subScope=teamCode&sitSplit=&timeSubFrame2=1&venueID=&baseballScope=mlb&timeSubFrame=2006&&sortByStat=IP) Perhaps you should get someone who can actually read the back of a baseball card to assist you.

How much is Livan Hernandez worth to you?

soxinem1
09-11-2007, 06:06 PM
He pitched into the eighth inning with no one behind him able to make a play, and you want to blame him?

It's a damn good thing you don't make personnel decisions for the White Sox.

It's a damn good thing that some others should recognize that Garland can be sailing along, then someone makes an error, or a call does not go his way, then he throws a loud HR or RBI double after the error. It has happened over, and over, and over ,and over.......

If you like watching those types of performances, that's your business. KW can trade Garland as a pure salary dump and I for one would agree with the move.

This has been happening since he came to the majors, and it is one reason why he will be shopped, hopefully sucessfully this time, when the season ends. Then it can be someone else's problem.