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View Full Version : An idea that will get me burned by the aPaulogists


Frater Perdurabo
09-09-2007, 09:29 AM
:)

This is all in good fun, right? So at least hear me out before you decide to rip the idea to shreds... :tongue:

The Sox have holes. They also have lots of money committed for 2008. Barring a big payroll bump, free agency won't fill all the holes. There's room for perhaps one big free agent signing. Trades are OK, but KW would have to give something to get something. Danks, Jenks and Fields are the only young, cheap players with any trade value, but it would be really stupid to trade any of them now. Buehrle has a NTC. Dye, AJ, Thome & Contreras wouldn't bring equal value in return; for different reasons each is worth more to the Sox than to other teams. Vazquez & Garland have trade value, but why weaken the starting pitching? Crede and Uribe have little trade value right now.

I like Paulie. So do the Sox and many fans. So would other teams; he has trade value. Trading Paulie could make sense if it fills multiple holes.

How about Paulie to the Dodgers for Furcal? Sign Hunter & put Fields at 1B. Decline Uribe's option and invest that money in the bullpen.Pods/Ozuna, Furcal, Dye, Thome, Hunter, Fields, AJ/Hall, Crede, Richar is a powerful lineup with some speed at 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9.

Is that such a terrible lineup, that it will be so despicable, that the Sox franchise will cease to exist without Paulie as their fearless captain?

:)

DumpJerry
09-09-2007, 09:56 AM
This idea was heavily discussed (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=92271) earlier this week.

oeo
09-09-2007, 10:50 AM
How about Paulie to the Dodgers for Furcal? Sign Hunter & put Fields at 1B. Decline Uribe's option and invest that money in the bullpen.Pods/Ozuna, Furcal, Dye, Thome, Hunter, Fields, AJ/Hall, Crede, Richar is a powerful lineup with some speed at 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9.

Forgetting how stupid this is for us, the Dodgers don't need a 1B. I'm pretty sure they're high on James Loney. He's supposed to be a perennial Gold Glover at first.

Is that such a terrible lineup, that it will be so despicable, that the Sox franchise will cease to exist without Paulie as their fearless captain?

:)

Yes, as a matter of fact it is. It's still the same old, injury prone lineup we have this year. Pods needs to go. There isn't a, 'if he finishes strong he can come back.' He cannot stay healthy, so it's time to cut ties. Then you want to give a starting job to Ozuna? :?:

Then you look at the rest of that lineup and not only are they old (besides Richar and Fields), but can Dye, Thome, Crede, and even Torii stay healthy? I'd put my money on 'no.'

getonbckthr
09-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Any commitment to Podsednik in an impact form for next season is trouble.

DumpJerry
09-09-2007, 12:02 PM
I seriously doubt that Porcelain Pods will be in a White Sox uni next year.

viagracat
09-09-2007, 12:07 PM
I seriously doubt that Porcelain Pods will be in a White Sox uni next year.

I'll go further than that and guarantee this: He Gone!

Frater Perdurabo
09-09-2007, 04:03 PM
Forgetting how stupid this is for us, the Dodgers don't need a 1B. I'm pretty sure they're high on James Loney. He's supposed to be a perennial Gold Glover at first.

Yes, as a matter of fact it is. It's still the same old, injury prone lineup we have this year. Pods needs to go. There isn't a, 'if he finishes strong he can come back.' He cannot stay healthy, so it's time to cut ties. Then you want to give a starting job to Ozuna? :?:

Then you look at the rest of that lineup and not only are they old (besides Richar and Fields), but can Dye, Thome, Crede, and even Torii stay healthy? I'd put my money on 'no.'

As good as Paulie is, the Dodgers would be foolish not to want his bat to improve their anemic offense.

Put the Pods/Ozuna (or Owens/Ozuna) left field platoon in the 9-hole, move Richar to the 2 spot, and Furcal can lead off. So here's the lineup:

Furcal, Richar, Dye, Thome, Hunter, Fields, AJ, Crede, LF platoon (Pods, Owens, Ozuna)

Health is always a crapshoot. Hunter should be healthier playing on grass.

Also, are the Sox going to get a leadoff hitter/shortstop in trade for anyone else on the roster? For Thome? No. For Dye? No. For AJ? No. Do you want to trade Vazquez or Garland to get one? I don't. Would you rather forget about CF and sign Eckstein instead? He can lead off, but he's not great defensively. What other leadoff hitters are free agents? The Sox do not have unlimited resources to use free agency to fill SS, CF and LF, plus the bullpen. How about suggesting a better idea, oeo, instead of leaving a steaming pile all over mine?
:?:

Dump, if I did the wrong thing, I'm sorry to have created a separate thread. At first I thought of putting this in the Garland trade rumor thread, then decided against it. And I wasn't sure about the other thread to which you linked; sometimes it's hard to judge the fine line between resurrecting an old thread and inducing "search function is your friend" replies in a new one.

Domeshot17
09-09-2007, 07:34 PM
If you get a good deal fine.

Konerko for Furcal IS NOT A GOOD DEAL. Lets trade a guy who gives you 30 home runs and almost 200 runs a year for one who is up and down with his average and has no power. Terrible trade.

Konerko for Kemp-Furcal-Beimal/Broxton or one of their younger RP, ok.

TomBradley72
09-09-2007, 07:40 PM
Under NO scenario should Pods come back to the White Sox. He had a great first half in 2005, a great post season...other than that 2.5 seasons of constant injuries.

It's time to let go. 2005 is over ...Pods' time with the White Sox needs to come to an end.

Goodman6
09-09-2007, 09:38 PM
Under NO scenario should Pods come back to the White Sox. He had a great first half in 2005, a great post season...other than that 2.5 seasons of constant injuries.

It's time to let go. 2005 is over ...Pods' time with the White Sox needs to come to an end.

I sure hope you are right, but I would not be too sure of that statement. I am afraid that once KW and JR find out what solid free agent outfielders will be offered by other teams this off-season, the team budget may not be able to afford anyone better than Pods and Ertsad again. If you read the story in the Daily Southtown today, JR said our payroll will be $100M in 2008. According to the story, that is about $9M less than our payroll at the beginning of this season.

Thus, if those numbers are correct, the only way we can afford a real upgrade in our outfield is to trade some of our more expensive players (i.e. Contreras and Garland) to free up some money. If KW has difficulty trading one or two of our more expensive players in the offseason, he might be forced to go the cheaper route again with Pods and a guy like Erstad.

I really hope Pods won't be back but I have leaned to not believe anything KW and JR say to the media.

By the way, Tom Bradley was one of my all-time favorite Sox pitchers.

JB98
09-10-2007, 12:52 AM
If you get a good deal fine.

Konerko for Furcal IS NOT A GOOD DEAL. Lets trade a guy who gives you 30 home runs and almost 200 runs a year for one who is up and down with his average and has no power. Terrible trade.

Konerko for Kemp-Furcal-Beimal/Broxton or one of their younger RP, ok.

I agree. Konerko for Furcal straight up is just brutal for our side. This is how Frater rolls. He talks about how valuable Konerko is, then he proposes we give him away for less than equal value.

Last year at this time, Frater wanted to deal Konerko, Uribe AND Garcia for Michael Young. Michael Young's a nice player, but c'mon.

If we're gonna trade Paul Konerko, we better get three big-leaguers in return. Period.

jabrch
09-10-2007, 10:42 AM
Then who plays 1B?

There's not a single player on this team I wouldn't consider trading for the right deal - but there's no reason to trade Konerko for Furcal.

JB98
09-10-2007, 12:54 PM
Then who plays 1B?

Ross Gload.

I'm confident the "Move Dye to 1B" crowd will be posting in this thread shortly.

The Immigrant
09-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Then who plays 1B?

Fields could probably do well there and it would make Daver happy to get him out of LF.

I'm not in favor of trading Konerko, BTW, just sayin'.

jabrch
09-10-2007, 01:49 PM
Ross Gload.

I'm confident the "Move Dye to 1B" crowd will be posting in this thread shortly.

Fields could probably do well there and it would make Daver happy to get him out of LF.

I'm not in favor of trading Konerko, BTW, just sayin'.

Paul played much better D this season than I remember him ever playing before. I can't see a reason to trade him unless we get someone good, young and cheap. And I don't see many teams doing that.

Hu and Kemp/Ethier? Sure - why not? But if you are talking abouto Furcal - I'd pass.

Zisk77
09-12-2007, 03:34 PM
1. Furcal is grossly overpaid.

2. Furcal has a reoccurring DUI problem.

3. You could probably get more value trading paulie to anaheim or NYY which were teams that had interest in him.

4. I don't think I would be looking to trade him however. i think he replaces Thome at Dh when Jim's contract expires. fields moves to first and spells Crede at third when needed.

5. SS will be addressed thru F.A., draft, or trade but it won't be for Furcal unless the Dodgers and us want to exchange overpriced damaged good... furcal/contreras, which I don't expect will happen.

Domeshot17
09-12-2007, 04:10 PM
1. Furcal is grossly overpaid.

2. Furcal has a reoccurring DUI problem.

3. You could probably get more value trading paulie to anaheim or NYY which were teams that had interest in him.

4. I don't think I would be looking to trade him however. i think he replaces Thome at Dh when Jim's contract expires. fields moves to first and spells Crede at third when needed.

5. SS will be addressed thru F.A., draft, or trade but it won't be for Furcal unless the Dodgers and us want to exchange overpriced damaged good... furcal/contreras, which I don't expect will happen.

Rethink 5, I agree with the others. There isnt a quality upgrade available at SS in FA, and I dont know who the last SS who was drafted and came right up is, but I know there isnt on of those in next years draft. Trade is he only solution, unless Arod opts out, can still play short, AND Kenny and Jerry get over their fear of Boras.

Nellie_Fox
09-12-2007, 04:28 PM
Trade is he only solution, unless Arod opts out, can still play short, AND Kenny and Jerry get over their fear of Boras.Dont forget "AND are willing to dedicate a fourth of the payroll to one guy." Not going to happen.

The Dude
09-15-2007, 09:05 PM
:)

This is all in good fun, right? So at least hear me out before you decide to rip the idea to shreds... :tongue:

The Sox have holes. They also have lots of money committed for 2008. Barring a big payroll bump, free agency won't fill all the holes. There's room for perhaps one big free agent signing. Trades are OK, but KW would have to give something to get something. Danks, Jenks and Fields are the only young, cheap players with any trade value, but it would be really stupid to trade any of them now. Buehrle has a NTC. Dye, AJ, Thome & Contreras wouldn't bring equal value in return; for different reasons each is worth more to the Sox than to other teams. Vazquez & Garland have trade value, but why weaken the starting pitching? Crede and Uribe have little trade value right now.

I like Paulie. So do the Sox and many fans. So would other teams; he has trade value. Trading Paulie could make sense if it fills multiple holes.

How about Paulie to the Dodgers for Furcal? Sign Hunter & put Fields at 1B. Decline Uribe's option and invest that money in the bullpen.Pods/Ozuna, Furcal, Dye, Thome, Hunter, Fields, AJ/Hall, Crede, Richar is a powerful lineup with some speed at 1, 2, 5, 6 and 9.

Is that such a terrible lineup, that it will be so despicable, that the Sox franchise will cease to exist without Paulie as their fearless captain?

:)

How many times have you proposed a deal getting rid of Paul Konerko since you started posting here? Does anyone have a Frater tracker?:smile:

wealz07
09-16-2007, 04:28 AM
It makes zero sense to sign Buehrle and Dye and then deal Konerko.

Frater Perdurabo
09-16-2007, 07:48 AM
How many times have you proposed a deal getting rid of Paul Konerko since you started posting here? Does anyone have a Frater tracker?:smile:

Too many to count. :)

soxinem1
09-16-2007, 02:15 PM
As good as Paulie is, the Dodgers would be foolish not to want his bat to improve their anemic offense.

Put the Pods/Ozuna (or Owens/Ozuna) left field platoon in the 9-hole, move Richar to the 2 spot, and Furcal can lead off. So here's the lineup:

Furcal, Richar, Dye, Thome, Hunter, Fields, AJ, Crede, LF platoon (Pods, Owens, Ozuna)

Health is always a crapshoot. Hunter should be healthier playing on grass.

Also, are the Sox going to get a leadoff hitter/shortstop in trade for anyone else on the roster? For Thome? No. For Dye? No. For AJ? No. Do you want to trade Vazquez or Garland to get one?
.

I was rummaging through MLB box scores the other day and the idea of Johnny Damon intrigued me.

I could definitely see the NYY shop him, pay for some of his salary, and probably take Garland for him. With the logjam in their OF and the diminishing of his role as an everyday player with them, he could definitely play a key role here. Even if the Yankees win the Series they need starters big time, and would gladly take Garland, even if only for a year.

If Crede comes back and Fields is in LF, he can go to CF. If Crede does not come back, and Fields has to play 3B, then Damon can go to LF.

It looks very obvious that Guillen wants Owens in his 2008 line up, so he will be somewhere as an everyday OF.

I can also see Jack Wilson coming to The Cell as a SS. PIT will be looking to dump him and go cheap. Besides, he's way better all around than Uribe and a good defender whose 2008 salary will be similar to Uribe's.

But with so many questions on the INF I cannot see Konerko getting traded unless the Sox totally revamped their OF and put Dye there.

This team did not sign Buerhle and Dye to rebuild, or they could have let them go. Unless someone offers any mix of these two: a bonified CF, SS, 2B, and relief pitcher, no way Konerko goes anywhere.

The 2005 team had very little in the terms of superstars, and all the moves KW made before the season were for players to bolster key areas, not to put the best stat players there.

I do know one thing. This will be one of the most watched, second-guessed, and hopefully fun off-seasons we have seen in awhile.

FarWestChicago
09-16-2007, 03:18 PM
I was rummaging through MLB box scores the other day and the idea of Johnny Damon intrigued me.

I could definitely see the NYY shop him, pay for some of his salary, and probably take Garland for him.Are you saying you want to trade Garland for Damon? Now, I may not be the best GM on this board, but that strikes me as a bit of a bad trade. Let's see what others have to say.

MDF3530
09-16-2007, 04:44 PM
I say trade Konerko to Anaheim for Figgins, sign Crede to a one year contract now that he has no leverage, put him at first and Fields at 3rd.

Frater Perdurabo
09-16-2007, 04:58 PM
I say trade Konerko to Anaheim for Figgins, sign Crede to a one year contract now that he has no leverage, put him at first and Fields at 3rd.

How about leaving Crede and third and putting Fields at first?

Tragg
09-16-2007, 07:31 PM
Frater - you're giving Konerko away. Need to get an equitable return for him.

Fields is who I would consider putting at first.

UserNameBlank
09-16-2007, 07:43 PM
Are you saying you want to trade Garland for Damon? Now, I may not be the best GM on this board, but that strikes me as a bit of a bad trade. Let's see what others have to say.
I have to agree with you there. That sounds like a case of the uh-ohs to me.

UserNameBlank
09-16-2007, 07:53 PM
Frater, are you Darin Erstad? Seriously. You run BA off the team so you can have CF, then you get injured and it's all your own damn fault, and now you want PK gone - and to your old stomping grounds no less? You can't have 1B too, Darin.

There can really be no other explanation because there is no other reason why anyone in his right mind would want to dump a 35-40HR/season 1B for a bratty collection of little snot-nosed slap hitters with no power whatsoever. The Angels would do every one of these deals in a heartbeat, not because they are stupidly blind to the AWESOMENESS that is Casey Kotchman, but because they are smart enough to understand that 1B is a power position. They understand that their Casey is just a rich man's version of one Casey we already have in our organization who was removed from the 40-man and another Casey who the Tigers don't want to play anymore.

UserNameBlank
09-16-2007, 08:00 PM
How about Paulie to the Dodgers for Furcal?

Whoops, my bad. I made a post in this thread assuming PK was being shipped by you to the Angels again. My mistake.

Why Furcal? We could probably get him for a bag of balls if we wanted to eat that $13 million he has coming to him this year. The Dodgers have Hu ready to take over and for all that money they owe Furcal, it's really not worth that much. Furcal isn't even going to be worth draft picks when he hits FA after next year, because in order to get draft picks you need to first offer arbitration. No team is going to offer arbritration to a $13mil SS with no power and a drinking problem.

You say you like Paulie. Haha, that is such a lie. No one wants Paulie gone more than you do. You've been pining for his removal since at least 2005. That's two years now. He's not going anywhere.

MDF3530
09-16-2007, 08:05 PM
How about leaving Crede and third and putting Fields at first?Protect Crede's surgically repaired back (for trade possibilities) from all the diving around at third.

soxinem1
09-17-2007, 02:36 PM
Are you saying you want to trade Garland for Damon? Now, I may not be the best GM on this board, but that strikes me as a bit of a bad trade. Let's see what others have to say.

Why is it bad? An inconsistent pitcher a year from walking for one of the better lead-off men of his generation who is not washed up?

West, you know as well as I do that KW likes veterans, especially if he gets them at his price, which is money along with the player.

With the year and career Garland has had, who do you expect to get for him, Robinson Cano?

FarWestChicago
09-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Why is it bad? An inconsistent pitcher a year from walking for one of the better lead-off men of his generation who is not washed up?Well, I'm not one of the everybody is washed up after 25 crowd we have around here. But, a young starting pitcher for an old guy? He may not be washed up, but he's at least getting that faded look. I don't know. That's why I wanted to see some other opinions.

Daver
09-17-2007, 07:43 PM
Well, I'm not one of the everybody is washed up after 25 crowd we have around here. But, a young starting pitcher for an old guy? He may not be washed up, but he's at least getting that faded look. I don't know. That's why I wanted to see some other opinions.

I'm sure the Expos are glad they gave up on Randy Johnson and traded him to the Mariners in his mid twenties.

Mohoney
09-24-2007, 04:24 AM
The only scenario in which a Garland-Damon trade makes sense is if the organization believes that Garland is damaged goods and won't be a part of our long-term plan.

Garland did get pounded pretty badly in July and August, and I was worried that something was physically wrong with him, but his last 30 innings or so have been fantastic, so now I'm really confused.

If there are no health questions, I would want to get more than just a discounted Johnny Damon for Jon Garland. I would probably insist on a bullpen piece being included, or failing that, a decent middle infield or pitching prospect.