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View Full Version : Not to alarm anybody, but...


PaleHoseGeorge
04-09-2002, 12:50 PM
...with last night's rainout and Cleveland beating Minnesota, our Sox are 3.5 games out of first-place. After one week of games, we've already fallen off the pace to the EXACT same amount as back in July, 1997 when Jerry Reinsdorf threw in the towel.

Should I remind anyone that it was that same trade (which many Sox Fans applauded at the time) which officially launched the rebuilding process that got us where we are today?

Do I need to remind anyone that this team is now threatened with precisely the same fate?

Who wants to stand up and call Jerry Reinsdorf a genius today?

THE_HOOTER
04-09-2002, 12:54 PM
I don't think that Reinsdorf is to blame for our slow start this year.

How about the bullpen? This team has the talent to win 90 games.

Personally, if we suck this year, I hope we get rid of Valentin, Durham, Thomas, and of course Clayton.

Sooner or later you have to realize we can't win with this nucleus.

New blood.

RedPinStripes
04-09-2002, 01:18 PM
:reinsy
"Keep it up and I'll trade foulke with Ray this year!!!" Idiot fans! Do you think we'll actually catch Clevland?"

moochpuppy
04-09-2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
...with last night's rainout and Cleveland beating Minnesota, our Sox are 3.5 games out of first-place. After one week of games, we've already fallen off the pace to the EXACT same amount as back in July, 1997 when Jerry Reinsdorf threw in the towel.



One big difference is then the Sox were 53-53, now they are 2-4.

Interesting stat: Back in 1997 the Sox payroll was $58,832,000 and now 5 seasons later it has only increased to $63,703,667. That's less than a $5 million increase. Hmmmm...........that's good accounting for Reinsdorf.

MarqSox
04-09-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy


One big difference is then the Sox were 53-53, now they are 2-4.

Interesting stat: Back in 1997 the Sox payroll was $58,832,000 and now 5 seasons later it has only increased to $63,703,667. That's less than a $5 million increase. Hmmmm...........that's good accounting for Reinsdorf.

Yeah but I'd argue that the team is more talented today than in 1997, even if their record at the moment doesn't reflect that.

moochpuppy
04-09-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


Yeah but I'd argue that the team is more talented today than in 1997, even if their record at the moment doesn't reflect that.

Oh, there is no question this team is more talented all around (even the pitching). What I was comparing were the records. In '97 they had played 106 games while now they have only played 6. Hardly time to throw in the towel.

Besides, after the trade in '97 the team went 27-28 to finish the season so it really didn't impact that team in anyway from the way they were playing all year.

Bmr31
04-09-2002, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
...with last night's rainout and Cleveland beating Minnesota, our Sox are 3.5 games out of first-place. After one week of games, we've already fallen off the pace to the EXACT same amount as back in July, 1997 when Jerry Reinsdorf threw in the towel.

Should I remind anyone that it was that same trade (which many Sox Fans applauded at the time) which officially launched the rebuilding process that got us where we are today?

Do I need to remind anyone that this team is now threatened with precisely the same fate?

Who wants to stand up and call Jerry Reinsdorf a genius today?

hmm He may not be genius, but that trade was.....the guys we traded haven proven to be DOG CRAP.

Bmr31
04-09-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Bmr31


hmm He may not be genius, but that trade was.....the guys we traded haven proven to be DOG CRAP.

and from our side i dont think its JRs fault that barcelo blew out his arm and foulke is being used to the disadvantage of his talent....

Pete_SSAC
04-09-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
...with last night's rainout and Cleveland beating Minnesota, our Sox are 3.5 games out of first-place. After one week of games, we've already fallen off the pace to the EXACT same amount as back in July, 1997 when Jerry Reinsdorf threw in the towel.


Wow, thank god it's NOT JULY! Jesus, some of you chicken littles are streaching to come up with stuff.

- Pete

baggio202
04-09-2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Pete_SSAC


Wow, thank god it's NOT JULY! Jesus, some of you chicken littles are streaching to come up with stuff.

- Pete

i could see kenny williams dumping durham and valentin for 3 minor leaguers today... "the fans just arnt supporting the team and because of it we dont have the revenue to pay these guys...i mean..do you all realize that as of this date the sox are tied for dead last in attendance???...thats just unacceptable ..its the fans fault and they are forcing these moves".... :gulp:

foulkesfan11
04-09-2002, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
....

Should I remind anyone that it was that same trade (which many Sox Fans applauded at the time) which officially launched the rebuilding process that got us where we are today?



I hated that trade, and I hate the situation now. Crede should be up here. I don't care how much Clayton gets paid. He'd be as productive down South as he is here.

Tragg
04-10-2002, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Bmr31


and from our side i dont think its JRs fault that barcelo blew out his arm and foulke is being used to the disadvantage of his talent....

At this point, it is Foulke v. Roberto Hernandez. Alverez pitched okay for a while (back this year), Howry had his moments. That is it: the rest of our players were duds; the rest of the ones we traded did nothing after 1997.
Obviously, Foulke is far superior to Hernandez. Yet, when you trade the proven commodities, as the Sox did, you are supposed to get a big premium long term. i.e. you should get more than you give up because they needed the help today.
Trading the players was okay - that Scheuler didn't get what he could still irks me. And Williams is walking right in his footsteps - go out of your way NOT to get an edge on paper in a trade.

bringbackrobin
04-10-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by Tragg


At this point, it is Foulke v. Roberto Hernandez. Alverez pitched okay for a while (back this year), Howry had his moments. That is it: the rest of our players were duds; the rest of the ones we traded did nothing after 1997.
Obviously, Foulke is far superior to Hernandez. Yet, when you trade the proven commodities, as the Sox did, you are supposed to get a big premium long term. i.e. you should get more than you give up because they needed the help today.
Trading the players was okay - that Scheuler didn't get what he could still irks me. And Williams is walking right in his footsteps - go out of your way NOT to get an edge on paper in a trade.

Don't forget, the original trade was going to be Danny Darwin for Keith Foulke. It later expanded to what was to be known as the White Flag Trade. Looking at the non-Darwin/Foulke part, you have Roberto Hernandez and Wilson Alvarez for Howry, Vining, and Caruso. Ugh.

Kilroy
04-10-2002, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by bringbackrobin
Looking at the non-Darwin/Foulke part, you have Roberto Hernandez and Wilson Alvarez for Howry, Vining, and Caruso. Ugh.

You forgot Barcelo. There was also some outfielder that didn't do anything. Brian Manning? Not sure.

Anyway, they traded a guy that was older than dirt in Darwin, a mediocre starter in Alvarez, and a decent closer in Hernandez.
They got Foulke, Howry, and Barcelo, who are ML pitchers, and Vining who still may be. All for guys that were not gonna be on the Sox the next season. The problem wasn't with the trade, it was with the remarks made about catching Cleveland and Sox fans being crazy.

harwar
04-10-2002, 10:57 AM
The only thing that i am sure of is this..If the Sox go in the tank and don't get it done this year,and as a consequence,the attendance is low(per usual) then there will be a firesale,and what we see on the field next year will be for the most part a AAA team.