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thomas35forever
09-04-2007, 11:56 AM
This is Scot Gregor's opinion from the Daily Herald:

Should return
Mark Buehrle
Bobby Jenks
Jermaine Dye
Paul Konerko
Josh Fields
Jim Thome
Javier Vazquez
John Danks
Ehren Wasserman
Pablo Ozuna
A.J. Pierzynski

On the bubble
Jon Garland
Jose Contreras
Darin Erstad
Jerry Owens
Toby Hall
Danny Richar
Boone Logan
Matt Thornton

See you later
Scott Podsednik
Luis Terrero
Juan Uribe
Alex Cintron
Andy Gonzalez
Mike Myers
Ryan Bukvich
Mike MacDougal

I'd say this is a pretty fair assessment.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2007, 12:59 PM
I don't know the makeup of the 2008 club but I don't know if it's a great idea to keep the majority of the club that probably will lose 90 or so games.

I think a greater turnover is needed however I'm mindful of the fact that trades may not easily be accomplished, that other clubs may not want what the Sox are offering and that I don't know how deeply the Sox want to dive into free agency.

Like I said earlier it's going to be an interesting off season one way or another.

Lip

eriqjaffe
09-04-2007, 01:10 PM
On the whole, I agree, but I'd definitely flip flop Terrero and Erstad, especially considering Erstad would be coming back at $3.5 million next year.

The Immigrant
09-04-2007, 01:19 PM
On the whole, I agree, but I'd definitely flip flop Terrero and Erstad, especially considering Erstad would be coming back at $3.5 million next year.

Not necessarily - the Sox could buy him out for $250k and the parties could then agree on a cheaper contract for next season.

rmusacch
09-04-2007, 01:20 PM
This is Scot Gregor's opinion from the Daily Herald:

Should return
Mark Buehrle
Bobby Jenks
Jermaine Dye
Paul Konerko
Josh Fields
Jim Thome
Javier Vazquez
John Danks
Ehren Wasserman
Pablo Ozuna
A.J. Pierzynski

On the bubble
Jon Garland
Jose Contreras
Darin Erstad
Jerry Owens
Toby Hall
Danny Richar
Boone Logan
Matt Thornton

See you later
Scott Podsednik
Luis Terrero
Juan Uribe
Alex Cintron
Andy Gonzalez
Mike Myers
Ryan Bukvich
Mike MacDougal

I'd say this is a pretty fair assessment.

What about Crede?

soxfan13
09-04-2007, 01:23 PM
This is Scot Gregor's opinion from the Daily Herald:

Should return
Mark Buehrle
Bobby Jenks
Jermaine Dye
Paul Konerko
Josh Fields
Jim Thome
Javier Vazquez
John Danks
Ehren Wasserman
Pablo Ozuna
A.J. Pierzynski

On the bubble
Jon Garland
Jose Contreras
Darin Erstad
Jerry Owens
Toby Hall
Danny Richar
Boone Logan
Matt Thornton

See you later
Scott Podsednik
Luis Terrero
Juan Uribe
Alex Cintron
Andy Gonzalez
Mike Myers
Ryan Bukvich
Mike MacDougal

I'd say this is a pretty fair assessment.

Guillen has said that besides Jenks, Logan and Thorton are pretty much the only guaranteed to be back next year pitchers in the bullpen.

FielderJones
09-04-2007, 01:25 PM
What about Crede?

Looks like Scot (http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=30876) kinda spaced out on that one.

JB98
09-04-2007, 01:38 PM
Guillen has said that besides Jenks, Logan and Thorton are pretty much the only guaranteed to be back next year pitchers in the bullpen.

I don't think he guaranteed a spot for Thornton or Logan. He mentioned the two lefties as decent bets to return, but Bobby was the only pitcher he singled out as having secured a spot for next season.

The Immigrant
09-04-2007, 01:42 PM
Guillen has said that besides Jenks, Logan and Thorton are pretty much the only guaranteed to be back next year pitchers in the bullpen.

MacDoodle and Thorndog might also be guaranteed to return next season unless someone mercifully takes them off our hands. Each is signed through 2009. :o:

Frontman
09-04-2007, 01:46 PM
That's a pretty fair assessment of who I'd keep, and who I'd have to think about.

BainesHOF
09-04-2007, 02:52 PM
Why should Danks come back?

WhiteSox5187
09-04-2007, 03:40 PM
Why should Danks come back?
You'd get rid of a twenty-two year old lefty?? :?: He's going to be a good pitcher.

diehardRLsoxfan
09-04-2007, 03:50 PM
im new here just learnin the ropes on how to use the forums, if u guys have any good tips let me know, and by the way, sox will be back next year!!

oeo
09-04-2007, 03:52 PM
I don't know the makeup of the 2008 club but I don't know if it's a great idea to keep the majority of the club that probably will lose 90 or so games.

I think a greater turnover is needed however I'm mindful of the fact that trades may not easily be accomplished, that other clubs may not want what the Sox are offering and that I don't know how deeply the Sox want to dive into free agency.

Like I said earlier it's going to be an interesting off season one way or another.

Lip

You want greater than 14 players? Good luck with that. I'm not even sure 14 changes will be possible...

Who on that list do you not want to see with the Sox next year?

GAsoxfan
09-04-2007, 04:03 PM
I don't think he guaranteed a spot for Thornton or Logan. He mentioned the two lefties as decent bets to return, but Bobby was the only pitcher he singled out as having secured a spot for next season.

He also said Wassermann has a good shot at returning next season.

BainesHOF
09-04-2007, 04:34 PM
You'd get rid of a twenty-two year old lefty?? :?: He's going to be a good pitcher.

You send him to the minors and keep him there until he learns how to pitch. Another pitch might help. Danks is one of the many reasons we've been terrible this year.

Lip Man 1
09-04-2007, 05:04 PM
OEO:

In a perfect world I'd like to see these players NOT on the roster next season:

David Aardsma
Ryan Bukvich
Jose Contreras
Dewon Day
Gavin Floyd
Mike MacDougal
Mike Myers
Andrew Sisco
Toby Hall
Juan Uribe
Brian Anderson
Andy Gonzales
Scott Podsednik
Luis Terrero

In a perfect world these guys are 'maybe' (meaning if they can be replaced by an upgrade then by all means do it, but I don't know if that's possible)

Boone Logan
Nick Masset
Paulino Reynoso
Matt Thornton
Ehren Wassermann
Alex Cintron
Darin Erstad

I don't know what to make of Owens and Richar. Both have some talent, both have some ability to do some good things, both appear to be overmatched right now by MLB pitching. Will they get better? Can they?
I don't know but from the sound of things Kenny thinks they can and they'll be on the roster next year.

Lip

SoxxoS
09-04-2007, 05:20 PM
You send him to the minors and keep him there until he learns how to pitch. Another pitch might help. Danks is one of the many reasons we've been terrible this year.

We were terrible FAR before Danks had any negative impact. He was fine the first 2 months of the year.

thomas35forever
09-04-2007, 05:24 PM
We were terrible FAR before Danks had any negative impact. He was fine the first 2 months of the year.
Exactly. The only reason he doesn't have more wins is because he had absolutely no run support when his game was on. Plain and simple.

The Dude
09-04-2007, 05:51 PM
im new here just learnin the ropes on how to use the forums, if u guys have any good tips let me know, and by the way, sox will be back next year!!

I would recommend that you use capital letters, speak in complete sentences, don't use annoying abbreviations such as "u", and post in the correct forums.
Otherwise, welcome to WSI!:gulp:

oeo
09-06-2007, 03:24 PM
In a perfect world these guys are 'maybe' (meaning if they can be replaced by an upgrade then by all means do it, but I don't know if that's possible)

Boone Logan
Nick Masset
Paulino Reynoso
Matt Thornton
Ehren Wassermann
Alex Cintron
Darin Erstad

I just don't understand Wassermann coming from you, Lip. You're always talking about how we need guys that come in and throw strikes; get people out. How have you not been impressed by this guy? What has he done wrong?

If Wassermann keeps it up through September, he definitely deserves a spot in the bullpen next year. So he's not a big 'stuff' guy...so what. We brought in a bunch of 'stuff' guys this year, and look how that ended up. He gets guys out, and that's all I ask.

skottyj242
09-06-2007, 05:05 PM
Me and Toby Hall should for sure be back.

kittle42
09-06-2007, 05:21 PM
If more than half the club comes back, we're in trouble. :cool:

jenn2080
09-06-2007, 05:28 PM
If more than half the club comes back, we're in trouble. :cool:


NO ****!

Lip Man 1
09-06-2007, 05:35 PM
OEO:

You asked what I thought...I gave you my answer. Sorry if you don't like it.

Wassermann is Shingo revisited. When he gets around enough and hitters get used to him, me thinks they'll start teeing off.

You notice I put him in the 'maybe' category. The Sox may not be able to upgrade as much as I'd like so there is a decent chance he's with the team in April...whether he's with them next September remains to be seen.

Lip

MeteorsSox4367
09-06-2007, 05:36 PM
I just don't understand Wassermann coming from you, Lip. You're always talking about how we need guys that come in and throw strikes; get people out. How have you not been impressed by this guy? What has he done wrong?

If Wassermann keeps it up through September, he definitely deserves a spot in the bullpen next year. So he's not a big 'stuff' guy...so what. We brought in a bunch of 'stuff' guys this year, and look how that ended up. He gets guys out, and that's all I ask.

oeo: I agree with you fully. Maybe I'm wrong or high, but I think Wasserman could serve a purpose in the Sox bullpen similar to that of Pat Neshek with the Twins.

You look at Neshek with his funky delivery and wonder how the hell he gets people out, but he does. Wasserman's delivery isn't too far removed from Neshek's, IMO.

I think the Sox should give Wasserman a chance. He's obviously not going to close, but if the Sox need to get a tough righty out in the seventh, Wasserman could be the guy.

Besides, the last quality athlete in Chicago to wear No. 62 was former Bears guard Mark Bortz.

Tragg
09-06-2007, 06:53 PM
This is Scot Gregor's opinion from the Daily Herald:

On the bubble
Jon Garland
Jose Contreras
Darin Erstad
Jerry Owens
Toby Hall
Danny Richar
Boone Logan
Matt Thornton


I agree with everything on his must go list and stay list (although Ozuna could stay or go ). ON this list, well, I wouldn't cut Garland or Contreras - maybe trade one. Talent wise they stay. Richar's a definite keeper, despite being banished to 8th and 9th in the lineup (he should be hitting 2nd). Logan and Thornton will probably stay, unless the Sox find someone better. Erstand's terrible. Owens is getting the best opportunity that Ozzie's ever given a young hitter and by far....he's not getting better, unfortunately...it looks like he needs to return to AAA and learn how to take walks.

russ99
09-07-2007, 05:32 PM
You want greater than 14 players? Good luck with that. I'm not even sure 14 changes will be possible...

It's certainly possible and really it's what has to be done. Look what the Cubs did last offseason (not saying they're going anywhere this year) - they turned around their roster completely and went from horrible to contender.

One thing the Cubs did this year that Kenny did not was keep going after pieces that make the club better. Kenny's biggest failing is that we all knew how bad this team was by the middle of May, and he did little or nothing to shore up those weaknesses.

The big question here is what JR is going to do in regards to the payroll budget to allow Kenny to get the players to make that kind of worst-to-first turnaround.

We don't have to go Cub-crazy with the spending, but there's at least 5-7 major holes on this team, so payroll is going to (at least)
stay the same as this year. It may make more sense to do a tear-down rebuild, but Sox ticket-buyers won't stand for that.

oeo
09-07-2007, 05:38 PM
It's certainly possible and really it's what has to be done. Look what the Cubs did last offseason (not saying they're going anywhere this year) - they turned around their roster completely and went from horrible to contender.

One thing the Cubs did this year that Kenny did not was keep going after pieces that make the club better. Kenny's biggest failing is that we all knew how bad this team was by the middle of May, and he did little or nothing to shore up those weaknesses.

The big question here is what JR is going to do in regards to the payroll budget to allow Kenny to get the players to make that kind of worst-to-first turnaround.

We don't have to go Cub-crazy with the spending, but there's at least 5-7 major holes on this team, so payroll is going to (at least)
stay the same as this year. It may make more sense to do a tear-down rebuild, but Sox ticket-buyers won't stand for that.

The Cubs did not bring in 14 guys. They spent money on mediocre talent and got lucky that guys like Theriot, Fontenot, Marmol, etc. stepped up. None of those guys were in Hendry's plans to start the season.

Most of Lip's list isn't even on the 25-man roster. I thought it was, who's staying with the team, and who's going; not who we're going to entirely kick out of the organization.

Go ahead and give me some ideas on how we're going to replace fourteen out of twenty-five guys.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-08-2007, 10:33 AM
If more than half the club comes back, we're in trouble. :cool:

To the contrary, if it is truly necessary to wipe out over half of this roster in order to become championship contenders again, we're in far more trouble than what worries you above.

Never stand still when the time calls for PANIC...