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View Full Version : *Official* Can You Blame The White Sox Tonight 8/31/2007


MCHSoxFan
08-31-2007, 10:07 PM
That play in the 8th. MAAAN!!! :(:

GOOD NIGHT!:angry:

Grzegorz
08-31-2007, 10:10 PM
No lead is safe...

JB98
08-31-2007, 10:13 PM
It sucks. Hopefully, us fans who are still watching will be rewarded with a win someday.

Our last road victory: Aug. 5 when Floyd pitched six shutout innings vs. Detroit.

alohafri
08-31-2007, 10:15 PM
Is it too late to implicate MacDougal in "Family Secrets"?

October26
08-31-2007, 10:15 PM
I must be a massochist for watching these games looking for some hope. There is none. I watched because I am a Buerhle fan. Buerhle deserved this win. Why the **** was he taken out of the game? Pitch count? That is crap. Myers is crap, MacDougal is crap ... I'm sorry, I'm an Ozzie fan but he blew it tonight. Somebody please tell my why BOONE LOGAN was not brought in as the first left handed specialist out of the bullpen?

I pray for our entire bullpen (except for Bobby Jenks) to be sucked into a black whole during the offseason never to be heard from or seen again. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

The 2007 White Sox - they drove me to drink.

MCHSoxFan
08-31-2007, 10:15 PM
It sucks. Hopefully, us fans who are still watching will be rewarded with a win someday.

Our last road victory: Aug. 5 when Floyd pitched six shutout innings vs. Detroit.

Daaang!!! :(:

southsideirish71
08-31-2007, 10:22 PM
I must be a massochist for watching these games looking for some hope. There is none. I watched because I am a Buerhle fan. Buerhle deserved this win. Why the **** was he taken out of the game? Pitch count? That is crap. Myers is crap, MacDougal is crap ... I'm sorry, I'm an Ozzie fan but he blew it tonight. Somebody please tell my why BOONE LOGAN was not brought in as the first left handed specialist out of the bullpen?

I pray for our entire bullpen (except for Bobby Jenks) to be sucked into a black whole during the offseason never to be heard from or seen again. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

Lets see, Logan who is a loogy lefties are batting .208 against him. And Myers lefties are hitting .318 against him.

Sure Myers makes the perfect choice in the 8th inning against Travis Hafner.:angry:

It's Time
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
:kelly
"Maybe I can be a part the pen next year, Kenny"

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 10:23 PM
I must be a massochist for watching these games looking for some hope. There is none. I watched because I am a Buerhle fan. Buerhle deserved this win. Why the **** was he taken out of the game? Pitch count? That is crap. Myers is crap, MacDougal is crap ... I'm sorry, I'm an Ozzie fan but he blew it tonight. Somebody please tell my why BOONE LOGAN was not brought in as the first left handed specialist out of the bullpen?

I pray for our entire bullpen (except for Bobby Jenks) to be sucked into a black whole during the offseason never to be heard from or seen again. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

It is long past time for Ole MacDoodle to head to the farm. Down on the farm, where the relief pitchers are strange and the sheep are afraid. :angry:

JB98
08-31-2007, 10:25 PM
I must be a massochist for watching these games looking for some hope. There is none. I watched because I am a Buerhle fan. Buerhle deserved this win. Why the **** was he taken out of the game? Pitch count? That is crap. Myers is crap, MacDougal is crap ... I'm sorry, I'm an Ozzie fan but he blew it tonight. Somebody please tell my why BOONE LOGAN was not brought in as the first left handed specialist out of the bullpen?

Because it is imperative that Myers pitch himself off the team. Just think, he could be blowing meaningful games next April if we don't give him the opportunity to **** all over himself now.

A four-pitch walk to Hafner? LOL.

cws05champ
08-31-2007, 10:28 PM
I got so mad I just turned it off...again. Can we just stop the Myers experiment now and cut his ass? He brings no value!! Rosters open up tomorrow...I want to see Gonzales, Egbert, Russell pitching, not a 36 year old hack that can't get anyone out.

That bad hop was a microchasm of the Sox season right there.

Sit Contreras, Sit A. Gonzales, sit MacDougal, cut Myers and play some young guys. I'm tired of watching the same old BS night after night.

JB98
08-31-2007, 10:29 PM
I got so mad I just turned it off...again. Can we just stop the Myers experiment now and cut his ass? He brings no value!! Rosters open up tomorrow...I want to see Gonzales, Egbert, Russell pitching, not a 36 year old hack that can't get anyone out.

That bad hop was a microchasm of the Sox season right there.

Sit Contreras, Sit A. Gonzales, sit MacDougal, cut Myers and play some young guys. I'm tired of watching the same old BS night after night.

36-year old hack? Myers is 38!!!!

CLR01
08-31-2007, 10:29 PM
Down to 2 games. This is getting exciting. :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

soxfanatlanta
08-31-2007, 10:29 PM
****ing brutal.

cws05champ
08-31-2007, 10:30 PM
36-year old hack? Myers is 38!!!!

Does it really matter?

It's Time
08-31-2007, 10:32 PM
:hawk
"This is unbelievable"

spiffie
08-31-2007, 10:33 PM
Ozzie wants the #1 pick as much as we do....so we get lots of Myers...

UserNameBlank
08-31-2007, 10:33 PM
Lets see, Logan who is a loogy lefties are batting .208 against him. And Myers lefties are hitting .318 against him.

Sure Myers makes the perfect choice in the 8th inning against Travis Hafner.:angry:
Don't question Ozzie you troll.

(SuperUltraMega Teal)

JB98
08-31-2007, 10:33 PM
Does it really matter?

No, I just wanted to point out that it's even worse than you think. :D:

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 10:34 PM
Ozzie wants the #1 pick as much as we do....so we get lots of Myers...


Maybe Mike Myers had to be used in some sort of promotional tie-in with The Halloween re-make hitting theatres this weekend. I wonder who would win in a poll of which Mike Myers is scarier.

nsolo
08-31-2007, 10:39 PM
I was keeping tabs on the game from web updates when my wife decided to pop in a dvd. Before getting into the movie that I had been wanting to see, I checked the score. 5-0 White Sox!! Cool!

Later, I checked the old laptop again and its a winner for the Tribe. I'm sorry to say that I wasn't even surprised. Not even a little.

At the All-Star break I told myself it couldn't get much worse. Not with the talent that was still healthy on the team. Yet, it has gotten worse, and everyday is nothing but another opportunity to further prove how inept we are.

Also, please KW, no more positive spin on "big changes" or how we're a few pieces away from being competitive. We need a major overhaul, not just a tune-up. If things continue as they are, next year our first rung on the ladder to improvement will be to prove that indeed we are better than the Royals.

ohiosoxfan
08-31-2007, 10:41 PM
Mike Myers should never, ever pitch for the White Sox again! EVER!:angry:

nsolo
08-31-2007, 10:46 PM
Mike Myers should never, ever pitch for the White Sox again! EVER!:angry:

Wow! I thought I'd never agree with anyone from Columbus, Ohio.

Go Blue!

slavko
08-31-2007, 10:51 PM
Also, please KW, no more positive spin on "big changes" or how we're a few pieces away from being competitive. We need a major overhaul, not just a tune-up. If things continue as they are, next year our first rung on the ladder to improvement will be to prove that indeed we are better than the Royals.

It is going to be extra hard to make big changes with a top-heavy salary structure that leaves no room for changes and a lack of young talent to bring up. This could last a looooong time while we wait for contracts to expire and minor league talent to develop, if it ever does. All this in the face of what is sure to be a diminishing revenue stream. We shoulda, woulda sold high and planned ahead. But that's easier to do if you have a productive farm system.

MacDougal tonight? Threw some wicked stuff, threw it hard, couldn't find the strike zone. Sometime, somewhere, he's going to be a stud for someone.

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 10:53 PM
It is going to be extra hard to make big changes with a top-heavy salary structure that leaves no room for changes and a lack of young talent to bring up. This could last a looooong time while we wait for contracts to expire and minor league talent to develop, if it ever does. All this in the face of what is sure to be a diminishing revenue stream. We shoulda, woulda sold high and planned ahead. But that's easier to do if you have a productive farm system.

MacDougal tonight? Threw some wicked stuff, threw it hard, couldn't find the strike zone. Sometime, somewhere, he's going to be a stud for someone.


This website would have been crushed under the sheer volume of posts that would have been whining/complaining if the sox "sold high".

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Mike Myers should never, ever pitch for the White Sox again! EVER!:angry:

Maybe Myers and Ole MacDoodle could share the driving duties on the way back to the farm. :cuss:

soxinem1
08-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, this is the 27th anniversary of the 1970 White Sox.

But it didn't mean that the 2007 version has to play like them.

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Well, this is the 27th anniversary of the 1970 White Sox.

But it didn't mean that the 2007 version has to play like them.


This is the 27th anniversary of the 1980 White Sox, contrary to what you said.

nsolo
08-31-2007, 10:57 PM
This website would have been crushed under the sheer volume of posts that would have been whining/complaining if the sox "sold high".

Earlier in the season, yes. Now, not so sure. Even if out of spite.

soxinem1
08-31-2007, 10:57 PM
Maybe Myers and Ole MacDoodle could share the driving duties on the way back to the farm. :cuss:

You can throw the manager and his lefty-righty-lefty-righty crap in the trunk of their 1972 Pinto too.

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 10:58 PM
You can throw the manager and his lefty-righty-lefty-righty crap in the trunk of their 1972 Pinto too.


Every manager does lefty righty. They did it before Ozzie, they'll do it after Ozzie.

slavko
08-31-2007, 10:59 PM
This website would have been crushed under the sheer volume of posts that would have been whining/complaining if the sox "sold high".

I think you are absolutely right and have said so in other posts. But that doesn't make it the wrong thing to do if your farm system is bare and you need young talent to stock it. It still might happen, esp. with pitcher(s) now under contract.

What's going to happen to A. Jones with Atlanta? (But they have a productive farm system.)

nsolo
08-31-2007, 11:00 PM
Well, this is the 27th anniversary of the 1970 White Sox.

But it didn't mean that the 2007 version has to play like them.
Ummm...ok, maybe time becomes warped in the Twilight Zone. As Sox fans, I'm sure we would all agree that we are currently living there.

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 11:02 PM
You can throw the manager and his lefty-righty-lefty-righty crap in the trunk of their 1972 Pinto too.

Oh yea, pile em on and let's get the flock out a here!

southside rocks
08-31-2007, 11:04 PM
Bill Melton was kind of ... not-depressing in the postgame. He said that Ozzie and Kenny are scrutinizing each and every player and deciding whether that player will be on the team next year.

He said it doesn't look good for MacDougal in that regard. :D:

Farmio was deeply, deeply disgusted by the Cleveland 8th. Well, who wasn't.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-31-2007, 11:07 PM
It is going to be extra hard to make big changes with a top-heavy salary structure that leaves no room for changes and a lack of young talent to bring up. This could last a looooong time while we wait for contracts to expire and minor league talent to develop, if it ever does. All this in the face of what is sure to be a diminishing revenue stream.

The overhaul has to involve the guys you can get something for in a trade, like Konerko and Thome. Trade them for pitching and gear the team toward the proven winning formula: pitching, speed, and defense. Run enough pitching out there and you're in every game.

SluggersAway
08-31-2007, 11:20 PM
The overhaul has to involve the guys you can get something for in a trade, like Konerko and Thome. Trade them for pitching and gear the team toward the proven winning formula: pitching, speed, and defense. Run enough pitching out there and you're in every game.

I agree, all these guys do is hit and clog the base paths, walk a few times, gidp's a few times, and hit HR's less and less frequently.

If we can get young, aggressive position players who hit and have speed for them and some pitching then I say KW should pull the trigger.

Konerko and Thome are not the foundation of a World Series team anymore.

JB98
08-31-2007, 11:26 PM
I agree, all these guys do is hit and clog the base paths, walk a few times, gidp's a few times, and hit HR's less and less frequently.

If we can get young, aggressive position players who hit and have speed for them and some pitching then I say KW should pull the trigger.

Konerko and Thome are not the foundation of a World Series team anymore.

One of the guys with a big salary is going to have to go, and I don't think it will be Contreras.

StillMissOzzie
08-31-2007, 11:27 PM
I have seen more than enough of both Myers and MacDougal. With no money tied up in Myers, the decision to give him the boot can't happen fast enough for me. If KW can't see that he's not part of the 2008 plans, than he is suffering from rectal/cranial inversion.
MacDougal presents a bigger problem. The Sox owe him at least $4.6M for 2008-09, not to mention a $350K buyout (per Cot's), as I think that it's a safe bet that the Sox won't be coughing up $3.75M for 2010. I think the Sox will be eating a big share of that to get rid of him.

SMO
:angry::(::mad:

nsolo
08-31-2007, 11:27 PM
I agree, all these guys do is hit and clog the base paths, walk a few times, gidp's a few times, and hit HR's less and less frequently.

If we can get young, aggressive position players who hit and have speed for them and some pitching then I say KW should pull the trigger.

Konerko and Thome are not the foundation of a World Series team anymore.
You would think that is such a trade involving the above named players could at least bring in a few mediocre bullpen guys. Mediocre would be a huge improvement.

Noneck
08-31-2007, 11:33 PM
The overhaul has to involve the guys you can get something for in a trade, like Konerko and Thome. Trade them for pitching and gear the team toward the proven winning formula: pitching, speed, and defense. Run enough pitching out there and you're in every game.

The only way the Sox could maybe get a sack of potatoes for Thome is if they picked a large portion of his salary.

SluggersAway
09-01-2007, 12:00 AM
Thome has to be worth more than that...

Hitmen77
09-01-2007, 12:12 AM
I didn't watch the game - what was up with the "bad hop" play? Was that something that Uribe should have been able to field? Or was it really out of reach from him?

Can we just cut Mike Myers already? I hope the September call ups get time to pitch over the next month instead of the Sox wasting time with someone who is completely washed up.

Patrick134
09-01-2007, 12:22 AM
I didn't watch the game - what was up with the "bad hop" play? Was that something that Uribe should have been able to field? Or was it really out of reach from him?

Can we just cut Mike Myers already? I hope the September call ups get time to pitch over the next month instead of the Sox wasting time with someone who is completely washed up.


Horrible hop. Would have taken a miracle to adjust to that one.

StillMissOzzie
09-01-2007, 12:26 AM
I didn't watch the game - what was up with the "bad hop" play? Was that something that Uribe should have been able to field? Or was it really out of reach from him?

Can we just cut Mike Myers already? I hope the September call ups get time to pitch over the next month instead of the Sox wasting time with someone who is completely washed up.

It was a pretty severe bad hop. I am no Uribe defender, but he was well-positioned for where the ball was headed and then the bad hop angled off over his left shoulder.

Yes, Myers has proven his uselessness. No financial impact, he clearly has nothing left, just show the door.

SMO
:angry:

kitekrazy
09-01-2007, 12:26 AM
The overhaul has to involve the guys you can get something for in a trade, like Konerko and Thome. Trade them for pitching and gear the team toward the proven winning formula: pitching, speed, and defense. Run enough pitching out there and you're in every game.

We seem to never run out of station to station players. Maybe those roots go deep in the organization.
Fields may also be the example that defense isn't a concern either in the minors.

Hitmen77
09-01-2007, 12:32 AM
Horrible hop. Would have taken a miracle to adjust to that one.

It was a pretty severe bad hop. I am no Uribe defender, but he was well-positioned for where the ball was headed and then the bad hop angled off over his left shoulder.



Amazing. I am certainly not using it as an excuse for the Sox sorry-ass play this year, but it does seem like we're getting an incredible amount of bad hops and "seeing eye" hits from opponents this year along with line shots right at someone by our players. It's like the anti-2005.

Oh well, may as well get our "bad luck" out of the way this year when we suck anyway.

Trav
09-01-2007, 12:51 AM
I can't believe people are defending Uribe's lack of play in the 8th. I was at the game and I felt like dieing when it happened. No excuse for that. I guess it wouldn't have been such a big deal if this sort of thing didn't happen all year.

Burls looked good.

kittle42
09-01-2007, 12:53 AM
MacDougal tonight? Threw some wicked stuff, threw it hard, couldn't find the strike zone. Sometime, somewhere, he's going to be a stud for someone.

Is that you, Kenny?

Trav
09-01-2007, 12:58 AM
I must be a massochist for watching these games looking for some hope. There is none. I watched because I am a Buerhle fan. Buerhle deserved this win. Why the **** was he taken out of the game? Pitch count? That is crap. Myers is crap, MacDougal is crap ... I'm sorry, I'm an Ozzie fan but he blew it tonight. Somebody please tell my why BOONE LOGAN was not brought in as the first left handed specialist out of the bullpen?

I pray for our entire bullpen (except for Bobby Jenks) to be sucked into a black whole during the offseason never to be heard from or seen again. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

The 2007 White Sox - they drove me to drink.


While driving to the game tonight, I thought the same thing. I was hoping for a good pitching match up and got it at first. I tell you though, I figured we would lose after the top of the first. I just hoped it wouldn't be like it was. Talk about tough to take.

...sucks that I already had tickets to tomorrows game... I should stay home and order the Bama game.

Martinigirl
09-01-2007, 01:00 AM
Did Ozzie explain why he didn't take MacD out of the game in the 8th before he gave up the double? I think everyone in the ballpark knew he couldn't throw a strike to save his life, so I am wondering how Ozzie explains not putting Boone in earlier.

I know Ozzie isn't the one out there pitching but his handling of the pitching staff has sucked all year.

soltrain21
09-01-2007, 01:12 AM
We are all going to attend the next home game and find out that they stopped selling churros.

upperdeckusc
09-01-2007, 02:28 AM
Every manager does lefty righty. They did it before Ozzie, they'll do it after Ozzie.

I agree, and for the most part I agree with the overall strategy behind it. But there is no reason, NO REASON AT ALL, to start doing lefty-righty when you have two outs and a three run lead. Wasserman has been solid all year. He had two outs and a guy on first. Is this even remotely close to a threat? The only reason I'd pull him out is if he gives up a run after having two outs and only a guy on 1st. And that, my friends, is the blame of only one man. Yes, Myers sucked and MacDougal blew, but they shouldn't have been pitching in the first place. :angry::angry::angry:

ZombieRob
09-01-2007, 02:56 AM
Did Ozzie explain why he didn't take MacD out of the game in the 8th before he gave up the double? I think everyone in the ballpark knew he couldn't throw a strike to save his life, so I am wondering how Ozzie explains not putting Boone in earlier.

I know Ozzie isn't the one out there pitching but his handling of the pitching staff has sucked all year.
Ozzie would rather whine about the kind of treatment Lou gets from his players and the media and how he's the victim.Maybe if he'd stop worrying about things that don't matter he can concentrate on what goes on the field.

Grzegorz
09-01-2007, 06:00 AM
Konerko and Thome are not the foundation of a World Series team anymore.

The middle of the lineup (Dye, Konerko, Thome, & AJ) has to be dissolved because it is so slow and unable to manufacture runs.

I believe Konerko can still contribute; he's very capable at his position defensively and he continues to be a quality hitter.

Thome is often hurt which is disappointing because he's strictly a DH. Dye can slip into a part-time DH role opening up the door for some advantageous youngster to take over right field.

I'll go with two-thirds of the OF being light on experience if there is a competent center fielder in the middle.

Hopefully Crede comes back, the Chicago White Sox obtain the rights to Jack Wilson, keep Richar and Konerko.

AJ and a healthy and conditioned Hall behind the plate should help immensely.

It's the bullpen that worries me. Thornton, Jenks, Logan, & maybe Wasserman/Bukovich.

I've not given up on Masset; but McDougal God know what his problems are.

Other teams are going to look the Chicago White Sox as a place to get starting pitching. If the Chicago White Sox deal starters then the return better be high in terms of position players and some youngsters better be ready to step it up in the rotation in '08.

wassagstdu
09-01-2007, 08:02 AM
We seem to never run out of station to station players. Maybe those roots go deep in the organization.
Fields may also be the example that defense isn't a concern either in the minors.
Ozzie says "Don't give me tools, give me players." So the top two out of our farm system are Fields and Owens, a couple of football players trying to see if they can pick up baseball. And neither of them is a player.

BeviBall!
09-01-2007, 08:09 AM
"A rough one," said MacDougal, whose record slipped to 1-5. "It has been a little bit of an off-year. I'm working every day on it and trying to get it better."

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:fX_OIno8vMh2qM:www.farfromneutral.com/exodus/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/o_rly.jpg

hsnterprize
09-01-2007, 09:23 AM
The saddest part in all of this is...I read Mariotti's online column yesterday, and it pretty much said something I thought I'd never say...fire Ozzie now. Let's face it...even though Ozzie led our team to a World Series title a couple of years ago, it's pretty obvious that the team doesn't really want to play for him anymore. The scrutiny of his tirades is becoming more and more like a broken record (when they win, he's "just being Ozzie"...when they lose, it wears thin).

Our team has played itself to total irrelevance and anonymity. It's bad enough the Cubs are in first place, but this extreme nose-dove is one for the ages. It's one thing, for example, if the Cubs and Sox were in pennant races. Then we could at least hold our heads up high and hold the local press accountable if there are any forms of Cubbie-blue bias. But we can't say that here. Unfortunately, the Cubs have earned the right to the be to front page story, and the Sox have earned the right for all the fans they've gained in '05 to jump ship (at least the bandwagoners).

The White Sox have to make some MAJOR moves in the off-season to get back into good graces with the fans and general public. All the complaints we had about the ballpark, the neighborhood, and all things Sox were dealt with on one way or another, so there's really no place to hide anymore. No more excuses about things like low attendance, quiet fans, and such. I'm preaching to the chior here, but let's face it...our teams sucks. And the Cubs' success only makes this season worse. Granted, they're in that god-awful National League Central division, but they're playing good enough to make the post-season. And once they're in, the regular season doesn't matter anymore...just ask last year's World Champs.

Kenny, Jerry, and anyone in that Sox organization who's reading this better take this seriously...we fans won't tolerate this kind of losing. You promised a competitve team, and you failed to deliver...it's as simple as that. Granted, you guys aren't the ones who are not playing fundamental baseball, blowing leads late in games, failing to bring home runners on base, and making dumb decisions on the field. But, you guys, with your money and scouting experiences, brought these players to the team and said it would contend for another division title and playoff run. Well...that's ain't happening, and someone in leadership needs to accept some responsiblity for this and fix it. This uphill climb the Sox are on has just been impeded with sinking sand, and people who swore they'd be Sox fans for life are all of a sudden thinking Cubbie blue is fashionable. We don't want to back to the days of defending our team and all-things-Sox to the critics. We like being on top of the mountain, but we can only be there as long as there is a commitment to winning on the south side. This "We Are Chicago Baseball" slogan is a joke...the Cubs are acting more like it's their motto instead of ours. And if what's going on at 35th and Shields is supposed to be "...Chicago baseball", then I'd rather move to Milwaukee.

Sorry for the long rant, but I'm tired of this crap on the field. I expect a winner in 2008...nothing less. Unless the Cubs completely choke between now and October, we can expect to get a good grilling from their fans when the season is over. Granted, our team's raised the bar of excellence, but unless they're completely out of the picture, they can at least brag of making it to the playoffs. We'll alway have the ring, but let's be honest...we don't want them to get one either. If the Cubs ever do win it all, it had better be after the Sox have won at least 3 or 4 titles...or else, they'll own this city. Considering how many fans they have compared to our team, Red Sox Nation will be a flash in the pan compared to what Cub Nation will present. Are we willing to deal with that? I'm not...and I don't think you all are either.

I actually thought there was a chance this team could salvage something. So much for being positive.

southside rocks
09-01-2007, 09:33 AM
Did Ozzie explain why he didn't take MacD out of the game in the 8th before he gave up the double? I think everyone in the ballpark knew he couldn't throw a strike to save his life, so I am wondering how Ozzie explains not putting Boone in earlier.

I know Ozzie isn't the one out there pitching but his handling of the pitching staff has sucked all year.

I don't know if Ozzie addressed that, but Bill Melton did on the Comcast postgame. Chuck Garfein said that Ozzie should have brought in Jenks at that point, and Bill shook his head no and said very firmly that Ozzie is letting guys get themselves into and out of trouble, now, to see how they handle pressure. He said 'I guarantee you Kenny Williams is sitting in the stands watching to see how Mike MacDougal deals with that situation and they are making a lot of cold, hard decisions about people for next year that way."

And since the games now are meaningless in the larger picture, they have a sort of a laboratory to do that. It better pay off next year, all this suffering we're experiencing now watching this! :(:

mccoydp
09-01-2007, 09:44 AM
I knew when Mike kyers stepped in with Jndjans on base and two outs, I surmised that the game was lost.

Sadly, I was correct.

Jerko
09-01-2007, 09:58 AM
TWO things I don't like about this whole "auditioning for next year" crap that I keep hearing about.

1. We don't know by SEPTEMBER that MacDougal sucks? We don't know by SEPTEMBER that Thornton is better at getting righties out than lefties? This team has WAY too many "relief specialists" and not enough relief PITCHERS.

2. I know we don't "owe" anybody anything, but baseball is always spouting off about the "integrity of the game" and how it should be held on this lofty platform. Well, I'm sure if the SOX were fighting for first and they needed Cleveland to beat Detroit a few times, we'd be *****ing and moaning if the Indians managed a game the way our manager has been doing lately.


And as for this "get out of trouble yourself" mantra, well, when I stop seeing 5 or 6 pitchers used per game I might believe it. The team tanked, Ozzie is tanking, and it's disgusting to even watch anymore. I don't care how far we're out, when we stop playing to win then what the **** is the point?

Patrick134
09-01-2007, 10:00 AM
TWO things I don't like about this whole "auditioning for next year" crap that I keep hearing about.

1. We don't know by SEPTEMBER that MacDougal sucks? We don't know by SEPTEMBER that Thornton is better at getting righties out than lefties? This team has WAY too many "relief specialists" and not enough relief PITCHERS.

2. I know we don't "owe" anybody anything, but baseball is always spouting off about the "integrity of the game" and how it should be held on this lofty platform. Well, I'm sure if the SOX were fighting for first and they needed Cleveland to beat Detroit a few times, we'd be *****ing and moaning if the Indians managed a game the way our manager has been doing lately.


And as for this "get out of trouble yourself" mantra, well, when I stop seeing 5 or 6 pitchers used per game I might believe it. The team tanked, Ozzie is tanking, and it's disgusting to even watch anymore. I don't care how far we're out, when we stop playing to win then what the **** is the point?

Moaning about our manager doing what lately ? It's been teamwide ineptitude lately, all 25 guys. What rabbit do you want him to pull out of his hat ?

Jerko
09-01-2007, 10:18 AM
Moaning about our manager doing what lately ? It's been teamwide ineptitude lately, all 25 guys. What rabbit do you want him to pull out of his hat ?

I've said many times on this board that the entire organization needs to look in the mirror right about now, not just Ozzie. As for Ozzie, however, can you honestly say that last night was a well managed game? Or that he even managed to win? Starter goes 7 strong, RP gets 2 outs and gives up ONE HIT, so let's pull him for 2 pieces of **** that we ALREADY KNOW are awful? How about letting the pitcher that we don't know that much about (Wasserman) get out of HIS own mess? If we're gonna get bull****ted by the team and it's post game show host, at least be consistent. If next year is an "audition", leave Wasserman in. Don't just use that audition excuse to defend more garbage LRLRL matchups, that for the 300th time this year didn't work. And I've been saying THAT since game 2 against Cleveland so don't tell me I'm moaning about what's going on lately. It's been the entire year. Glad I'm not a Tiger fan right about now, they're the only team we show up against it seems.

champagne030
09-01-2007, 10:31 AM
I've said many times on this board that the entire organization needs to look in the mirror right about now, not just Ozzie. As for Ozzie, however, can you honestly say that last night was a well managed game? Or that he even managed to win? Starter goes 7 strong, RP gets 2 outs and gives up ONE HIT, so let's pull him for 2 pieces of **** that we ALREADY KNOW are awful? How about letting the pitcher that we don't know that much about (Wasserman) get out of HIS own mess? If we're gonna get bull****ted by the team and it's post game show host, at least be consistent. If next year is an "audition", leave Wasserman in. Don't just use that audition excuse to defend more garbage LRLRL matchups, that for the 300th time this year didn't work. And I've been saying THAT since game 2 against Cleveland so don't tell me I'm moaning about what's going on lately. It's been the entire year. Glad I'm not a Tiger fan right about now, they're the only team we show up against it seems.

:cheers: :thumbsup: :yup:

voodoochile
09-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Anyone else get the feeling that the two fan bases felt exactly the same way about "the bounce" in the 8th inning?

"Sums up our season in a nutshell. It's destiny."

Chicken Dinner
09-01-2007, 10:58 AM
I can't believe there's not one person on this team that's getting fired.

CLR01
09-01-2007, 11:05 AM
I can't believe there's not one person on this team that's getting fired.

The scouting director was this years sacrificial lamb even though it was Walkers ass hanging in the butcher shop window in Greek town.

voodoochile
09-01-2007, 11:06 AM
I can't believe there's not one person on this team that's getting fired.

What would be the point now and who would you blame for the freaky rash of injuries in the first half?

This season was over in June, this is now obvious to everyone, even those like me who are hopelessly optimistic and prefer to wait until the patient has been cremated and the ashes have been spread to admit the patient might have been slightly sick. :D:

Trust me there will be changes made this off-season, the question is who would you want fired? Does it make sense to fire players who you have to pay anyway when there isn't anything left to play for? If not players, perhaps KW or OG are candidates, but again I come back to the injuries and say, maybe they deserve a pass on this season.

The Immigrant
09-01-2007, 11:14 AM
I've said many times on this board that the entire organization needs to look in the mirror right about now, not just Ozzie. As for Ozzie, however, can you honestly say that last night was a well managed game? Or that he even managed to win? Starter goes 7 strong, RP gets 2 outs and gives up ONE HIT, so let's pull him for 2 pieces of **** that we ALREADY KNOW are awful? How about letting the pitcher that we don't know that much about (Wasserman) get out of HIS own mess? If we're gonna get bull****ted by the team and it's post game show host, at least be consistent. If next year is an "audition", leave Wasserman in. Don't just use that audition excuse to defend more garbage LRLRL matchups, that for the 300th time this year didn't work. And I've been saying THAT since game 2 against Cleveland so don't tell me I'm moaning about what's going on lately. It's been the entire year. Glad I'm not a Tiger fan right about now, they're the only team we show up against it seems.

:gulp:

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The Immigrant
09-01-2007, 11:19 AM
Trust me there will be changes made this off-season, the question is who would you want fired? Does it make sense to fire players who you have to pay anyway when there isn't anything left to play for? If not players, perhaps KW or OG are candidates, but again I come back to the injuries and say, maybe they deserve a pass on this season.

KW and OG unquestionably deserve a pass for this season and a chance to right the ship. The roster and the coaching staff, on the other hand, both deserve a major shakeup. Same goes for the rest of the scouting department and our minor league instructors (there appears to be something seriously rotten in Charlotte). Next year will be critical in keeping the Sox relevant in this city, particularly if the Cubs make the post-season.

People with an ownership stake in the team realize this and I expect to see wholesale changes in the offseason.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 12:05 PM
I don't want to see changes just for the sake of making changes.

I do want to see intelligent changes, though: more runners on base, more stolen bases, better baserunning, more extra base hits, better middle relief pitching, better bullpen management.

We all have ideas for changes, but I really don't care what they are, because there are infinite permutations to fix the problems. In fact, I think every player on this roster at least has the potential to be useful if used wisely. For example, Gonzalez and Cintron are very marginal players, but if they are the 24th and 25th men off the bench, and if the starters are good and healthy, then having those two on the roster is not going to keep the Sox from winning.

Likewise, the Sox can with with Uribe's deplorable offense in the #9 hole if they can acquire a good defensive CF who also can lead off, work counts, hit .290+, have a .350+ OBP and steal 40 bases.

Similarly, they can score runs even with their base-clogging 3-6 of Thome, PK, JD and AJ if they have good speed and OBP in the 9-1-2 spots and some RBI production from 7 (Fields) and 8 (Crede).

Martinigirl
09-01-2007, 12:10 PM
I don't know if Ozzie addressed that, but Bill Melton did on the Comcast postgame. Chuck Garfein said that Ozzie should have brought in Jenks at that point, and Bill shook his head no and said very firmly that Ozzie is letting guys get themselves into and out of trouble, now, to see how they handle pressure. He said 'I guarantee you Kenny Williams is sitting in the stands watching to see how Mike MacDougal deals with that situation and they are making a lot of cold, hard decisions about people for next year that way."

And since the games now are meaningless in the larger picture, they have a sort of a laboratory to do that. It better pay off next year, all this suffering we're experiencing now watching this! :(:

If Ozzie couldn't tell that MacDougal was not going to get himself out if it after he WALKED in the TYING run, what game was he watching? How much more proof did he need? Oh wait, I know the answer - he needed to see a bases clearing double before he was absolutely positive that MacDougal was ****.

I think Sox fans have been tortured enough this season that we shouldn't have to have any and all mistakes be glossed over as 'learning experiences' that will help us next year. We are not stupid, we know that some things are just errors/mistakes/ or overall ineptitude be it by players or the manager, no matter how Bill Melton tries to justify it.

wassagstdu
09-01-2007, 12:29 PM
This team is nothing like the team that Ozzie says he needs to win. He is the last one to blame. Blame KW's hubris for the bullpen, a couple too many injuries (to injury prone players, to be sure), and a minor league system that is rotten and out of synch with the needs of the major league club.

Tragg
09-01-2007, 01:06 PM
When you stuff a bullpen with career middle relievers, when you give a hack veteran chance after chance after chance, while marginalizing young players, this is what happens. This level of ballclub.

With all of the young pitching talent in this organization, creating opportunity after opportunity for a 39 year old hack pitcher is just cynical. Absolutely cynical.
And please, no more trades of live young arms for middle relievers.
And it's more than possible that MacDougal has a good year next year; with bad pitchers like him, it comes and goes, so you don't know. How about using some good pitchers or seeing if the young pitcher are good.

I will say that that hop was perhaps the worst hop I've ever seen.

JB98
09-01-2007, 01:12 PM
When you stuff a bullpen with career middle relievers, when you give a hack veteran chance after chance after chance, while marginalizing young players, this is what happens. This level of ballclub.

With all of the young pitching talent in this organization, creating opportunity after opportunity for a 39 year old hack pitcher is just cynical. Absolutely cynical.
And please, no more trades of live young arms for middle relievers.
And it's more than possible that MacDougal has a good year next year; with bad pitchers like him, it comes and goes, so you don't know. How about using some good pitchers or seeing if the young pitcher are good.

I will say that that hop was perhaps the worst hop I've ever seen.

It was a terrible hop. I'm a Uribe critic, but there was absolutely nothing Juan could have done. But you know what? After that, we still had a 5-4 lead.

A bad hop didn't walk in the tying run. A bad hop didn't give up a three-run double. I don't know what the Sox should do with MacDougal. They are on the hook for a couple more years with him. If they have to retain him for 2008, he has to be one of the guys they use while they're trailing. He can't be trusted to protect leads in the late innings. There's no middle ground: Either he retires the side in order or he totally implodes, leaving us with no chance to win the game. He's totally unpredicatable.

QCIASOXFAN
09-01-2007, 01:14 PM
If Ozzie couldn't tell that MacDougal was not going to get himself out if it after he WALKED in the TYING run, what game was he watching?
I liked the move by Ozzie leaving MaCdougal out there on the mound to die. Hopefully this was his curtain call to not coming back next year.

JB98
09-01-2007, 01:20 PM
The middle of the lineup (Dye, Konerko, Thome, & AJ) has to be dissolved because it is so slow and unable to manufacture runs.

I believe Konerko can still contribute; he's very capable at his position defensively and he continues to be a quality hitter.

Thome is often hurt which is disappointing because he's strictly a DH. Dye can slip into a part-time DH role opening up the door for some advantageous youngster to take over right field.

I'll go with two-thirds of the OF being light on experience if there is a competent center fielder in the middle.

Hopefully Crede comes back, the Chicago White Sox obtain the rights to Jack Wilson, keep Richar and Konerko.

AJ and a healthy and conditioned Hall behind the plate should help immensely.

It's the bullpen that worries me. Thornton, Jenks, Logan, & maybe Wasserman/Bukovich.

I've not given up on Masset; but McDougal God know what his problems are.

Other teams are going to look the Chicago White Sox as a place to get starting pitching. If the Chicago White Sox deal starters then the return better be high in terms of position players and some youngsters better be ready to step it up in the rotation in '08.


The bullpen is a huge concern to me as well. I don't believe it makes sense to deal starters for relievers though because starters throw so many more innings. Hence, I agree with your sentiment that any starter who gets dealt should yield young pitching or position players in return.

My feeling about the bullpen: Maybe some of the young pitchers who project as future starters could fill some gaps in our bullpen for 2008. I'm looking at Gio and either Egbert or Russell.

Let's face it, we need at least three new arms for the bullpen next season. That's going to be hard to find via trade or free agency. We need some help from within. Wassermann might be a guy from within who helps us. Jenks is rock solid, and I suppose we keep Thornton and Logan. Maybe Matt can rediscover his 2006 form, and Boone has some usefulness as a LOOGY.

Still, if we're going to go with Thornton, Logan and Wassermann, along with Jenks, we still need three other arms. That's going to a tough job for KW, IMO.

Lip Man 1
09-01-2007, 01:30 PM
This comment from Ozzie to Nat Whalen of the Daily Southtown is telling don't you think?

It's about MacDougal but you can substitute any name you want (except for Bobby Jenks) and the implication is still valid:

"When you put (MacDougal) in there, you just hope he shows up the way we hope he shows up. Sometimes, there's not much you can do about it."

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 01:45 PM
"When you put (MacDougal) in there, you just hope he shows up the way we hope he shows up..."

Thanks for sharing that with us, Lip! Ozzie has a bit of Yogi in him. :cool:

Martinigirl
09-01-2007, 02:06 PM
I liked the move by Ozzie leaving MaCdougal out there on the mound to die. Hopefully this was his curtain call to not coming back next year.

Again, the walking in the tying run didn't already establish he was useless and shouldn't come back next year? Well that and the vast majority of his performances this year?

And did MB deserve this? He pitched a great game and because we are busy accumulating 'learning experiences' with our bullpen, he gets a no decision.

The team sucks and the managing of the team sucks.

LITTLE NELL
09-01-2007, 02:56 PM
Please wake me and tell me I was having a terrible White Sox nightmare with screaming and sweating and fever.

Hitmen77
09-01-2007, 04:09 PM
..... Starter goes 7 strong, RP gets 2 outs and gives up ONE HIT, so let's pull him for 2 pieces of **** that we ALREADY KNOW are awful? How about letting the pitcher that we don't know that much about (Wasserman) get out of HIS own mess? If we're gonna get bull****ted by the team and it's post game show host, at least be consistent. If next year is an "audition", leave Wasserman in. Don't just use that audition excuse to defend more garbage LRLRL matchups, that for the 300th time this year didn't work. ....

I agree 100%

DoItForDanPasqua
09-01-2007, 05:27 PM
Our last road victory: Aug. 5 when Floyd pitched six shutout innings vs. Detroit.


****

Nellie_Fox
09-02-2007, 02:20 AM
did MB deserve this? He pitched a great game and because we are busy accumulating 'learning experiences' with our bullpen, he gets a no decision.

The team sucks and the managing of the team sucks.What would you have done? Pointing out what went wrong is easy; saying what would have worked, especially with this bullpen, is very, very hard.

Leave Buehrle out there to throw too many pitches in a game that means absolutely nothing? For what, to make the Tigers happy? The Sox owe them only an honest effort, not a willingness to extend their best pitcher at risk of injury just because the bullpen sucks.

Martinigirl
09-02-2007, 03:22 AM
What would you have done? Pointing out what went wrong is easy; saying what would have worked, especially with this bullpen, is very, very hard.

Leave Buehrle out there to throw too many pitches in a game that means absolutely nothing? For what, to make the Tigers happy? The Sox owe them only an honest effort, not a willingness to extend their best pitcher at risk of injury just because the bullpen sucks.

I am not saying suggesting that Mark should be in a game until his arm falls off, I had no problem with putting Wasserman in. I don't think Wasserman should have been taken out, but the righty/left BS, whatever. But my biggest complaint, and what appeared very, very obvious to me, was that MacDougal had no command of his pitches and leaving him out there was a huge mistake, particularly after he had walked in the tying run. I will never understand why he was allowed to pitch to another batter after that.

champagne030
09-02-2007, 01:12 PM
I am not saying suggesting that Mark should be in a game until his arm falls off, I had no problem with putting Wasserman in. I don't think Wasserman should have been taken out, but the righty/left BS, whatever. But my biggest complaint, and what appeared very, very obvious to me, was that MacDougal had no command of his pitches and leaving him out there was a huge mistake, particularly after he had walked in the tying run. I will never understand why he was allowed to pitch to another batter after that.


Just Ozzie being Ozzie.

SoxSpeed22
09-02-2007, 01:19 PM
Listening to Rongey yesterday, he said that they wanted to see if MacDougal can get out of the mess he created and it didn't work. They did the same thing for Garland in 2004 that led to a big 2005.
As for the bullpen handling, Ozzie might or might not have a Russian-Roulette attitude that there are 5 bullets in 6 chambers and he has to pull the trigger twice. If one doesn't get him, the other will.