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View Full Version : *Official* DOWN WITH GONZALEZ Postgame Thread


thomas35forever
08-30-2007, 11:21 PM
Someone had to start it. I wish I had fairy godparents so I could wish this season was over.

chisoxmike
08-30-2007, 11:22 PM
I hate this team.

This is bull****. ****ing swept by the Texas Rangers. ****. Have some ****ing pride.

Brian26
08-30-2007, 11:23 PM
That inning was Jose Valentinesque.

JB98
08-30-2007, 11:24 PM
I hate this team.

This is bull****. ****ing swept by the Texas Rangers. ****. Have some ****ing pride.

I hate the team too. Worst Sox team in my 31-year lifetime.

Don't know if I can muster that much anger anymore.

ChiSoxGirl
08-30-2007, 11:25 PM
I hate this team.

This is bull****. ****ing swept by the Texas Rangers. ****. Have some ****ing pride.

Mike, you're awesome. :smile: You never hesitate to say what we're all thinking!

itsnotrequired
08-30-2007, 11:26 PM
If the Sox get swept in Cleveland, let's all agree to disband and root for separate teams.

chisoxmike
08-30-2007, 11:26 PM
Mike, you're awesome. :smile: You never hesitate to say what we're all thinking!

I've bottled it up for a while now. Yeah, they've been done since June. But ****. Really. Come on. For the first time in my life, I can't wait until baseball season is over.

A. Cavatica
08-30-2007, 11:28 PM
I can't think of anything good to say, so

Chips
08-30-2007, 11:28 PM
If the Sox get swept in Cleveland, let's all agree to disband and root for separate teams.

I got Atlanta!

kittle42
08-30-2007, 11:29 PM
Why does anyone care? The players don't.

And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

JB98
08-30-2007, 11:30 PM
Why does anyone care? The players don't.

And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

Yeah, several guys are showing they can't play and shouldn't be a part of next year's team. That's the only positive.

chisoxmike
08-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Why does anyone care? The players don't.

And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

If they ****ing run out these AAA hacks, the Sox can flush my season tickets down the toilet along with their season.

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:31 PM
On the bright side, Danks pitched pretty well tonight. Too bad Gonzalez screwed up that inning...

Tragg
08-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Decent game by Danks. It's tough pitching with so much pressure - impotent offense and inept defense. Our pitchers, in general, have hung in pretty well - they've gotten no offensive support and the D has been no better than mediocre even when they aren't making errors.
Those pitchers will be the key to fixing this - the ones who stick and the ones we trade. Even the beleagured Floyd has pitched well in 5 of his last 7 appearances......that's upper tier on this team.

Owens and Richar seem to be catching the disease - they're getting worse. Can't have that.

Parrothead
08-30-2007, 11:32 PM
As if anyone expected to win tonight vs. Millwood? Danks stanks....5.41 ERA. That blows. Yes, Millwoods is high too but who really expected to Texas tonight. Sure the errors hurt but he still stinks, so does the offense and defense. Besides that the Sox should be in 1st ! If anyone is near Vegas bet on the Sox oppenents for the rest of the season, you will make a bundle. Probably enough to pay for next years season tix.

Thank god for the season the Windy City Thunderbolts (Frontier League). That is right 2007 Central Divsion Champs. There is playoff baseball on the southside.

:bandance::supernana::bandance:

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:34 PM
As if anyone expected to win tonight vs. Millwood? Danks stanks....5.41 ERA. That blows. Yes, Millwoods is high too but who really expected to Texas tonight. Sure the errors hurt but he still stinks, so does the offense and defense.

Did you even watch the game? :?:

That third inning should have been 1-2-3. If it is, he's likely to pitch at least another inning, and his line would look something like 7 IP, 9 K's, 2 ER. Yep, that's terrible. :rolleyes: 5.2, 8 K's, 2 ER isn't even bad.

Patrick134
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Did you even watch the game? :?:

That third inning should have been 1-2-3. If it is, he's likely to pitch at least another inning, and his line would look something like 7 IP, 9 K's, 2 ER. Yep, that's terrible. :rolleyes:


Danks pitched great early in the year and got zero run support. Now he's at the end of a long season pitching more innings than he has in previous years. He'll be fine.

RockJock07
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Someone said it best the other day but i'll say it again, I don't envy Kenny's off-season, he has a mess to try to figure out and it's not going to be an easy fix, at this point maybe this is just everyone's bad year, but to go from 2005 to this is REALLY hard. To expect a WS title every year is unrealistic, but please give us some good baseball and maybe a team that looks like they care.

Game 4 is the dvd player right now, i'm off to watch one the greatest displays of baseball and teamwork that i've ever seen.

CHISOXFAN13
08-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Did you even watch the game? :?:

That third inning should have been 1-2-3. If it is, he's likely to pitch at least another inning, and his line would look something like 7 IP, 9 K's, 2 ER. Yep, that's terrible. :rolleyes: 5.2, 8 K's, 2 ER isn't even bad.

He's far too busy talking to himself in the Thunderbolts playoff thread to have watched the game.

JB98
08-30-2007, 11:39 PM
Did you even watch the game? :?:

That third inning should have been 1-2-3. If it is, he's likely to pitch at least another inning, and his line would look something like 7 IP, 9 K's, 2 ER. Yep, that's terrible. :rolleyes: 5.2, 8 K's, 2 ER isn't even bad.

Yeah, Danks has had a rough second half, but tonight was a positive outing for him. He should be a 10-game winner this season. He's had horse**** for support from his teammates.

chisoxfanatic
08-30-2007, 11:41 PM
I hate this team.

This is bull****. ****ing swept by the Texas Rangers. ****. Have some ****ing pride.

Wow, Mike! Tell us how you REALLY feel?

Are you going to any other games this year? Renewing your tickets?

I hate the team too. Worst Sox team in my 31-year lifetime.

Don't know if I can muster that much anger anymore.

Same here. Hell, last night, I watched the Yankees game instead of our game. After the Yankee game ended, I fliped to HBO2 to watch Big Brother After Dark...THAT'S how bad it's gotten!

If the Sox get swept in Cleveland, let's all agree to disband and root for separate teams.

I've got the California Angels!

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:41 PM
Danks pitched great early in the year and got zero run support. Now he's at the end of a long season pitching more innings than he has in previous years. He'll be fine.

I know he'll be fine. And he was actually fine tonight...it was a pretty good game for him. Why someone comes in here that obviously didn't watch the game saying he 'stanks,' I have no idea.

Brian26
08-30-2007, 11:43 PM
I hate the team too. Worst Sox team in my 31-year lifetime.


The reason you feel this way is due to expectations. Talent-wise, there's no way this is a worse team than the '88 or '89 team. Or the '99 team.

Parrothead
08-30-2007, 11:44 PM
He'll be fine.

That is what the management said about everyone in spring training. I will believe it when I see it. Of course I am considered a ......
:darkclouds:

chisoxfanatic
08-30-2007, 11:44 PM
The reason you feel this way is due to expectations. Talent-wise, there's no way this is a worse team than the '88 or '89 team. Or the '99 team.
The '99 team would knock these Sox out of the park!

102605
08-30-2007, 11:45 PM
One of these days we are going to go on a run and get right back into this thing! :D:

Brian26
08-30-2007, 11:45 PM
And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

I have a feeling that at least two of those guys will not only be on the team, but will be in the starting lineup (Richar and Fields).

chisoxmike
08-30-2007, 11:45 PM
Wow, Mike! Tell us how you REALLY feel?

Are you going to any other games this year? Renewing your tickets?



I'm going to try not to. But, if I can't sell my tickets, I guess I have no choice, the tickets are paid for already.

Yeah, I'll renew. But like kittle42 has been saying, if Owens, Richar, Gonzalez, and the other hacks are still on this team, I'll be extremely pissed.

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:46 PM
That is what the management said about everyone in spring training. I will believe it when I see it. Of course I am considered a ......
:darkclouds:

No, more like ignorant to what just happened. I could see if Danks was terrible tonight, but he wasn't even bad. He gave us a chance to win (a very good chance), and if Andy Gonzalez could throw the ball and/or we could score some runs, he would have gotten a W tonight.

Brian26
08-30-2007, 11:47 PM
The '99 team would knock these Sox out of the park!

I'll take Buehrle over Jamie Navarro.

Parrothead
08-30-2007, 11:49 PM
He's far too busy talking to himself in the Thunderbolts playoff thread to have watched the game.

I was listening to the t-bolt game (t-bolts win 7 -2. Now 66 up and 27 down) and watching the Sox. Sorry but I don't think these are good stats.

5.2 innings pitched
108 pitches
5 runs (2 earned)
7 hits allowed
1 wild pitch
1 error
5.41 ERA ...

I am glad you do though.

It does not matter what should have been. What matters is what is. Tonight IMO he was bad.

chisoxfanatic
08-30-2007, 11:50 PM
I'll take Buehrle over Jamie Navarro.
I'll take Mike Caruso over Juan Uribe. :cool:

Patrick134
08-30-2007, 11:52 PM
I was listening to the t-bolt game (t-bolts win 7 -2. Now 66 up and 27 down) and watching the Sox. Sorry but I don't think these are good stats.

5.2 innings pitched
108 pitches
5 runs (2 earned)
7 hits allowed
1 wild pitch
1 error
5.41 ERA ...

I am glad you do though.

It does not matter what should have been. What matters is what is. Tonight IMO he was bad.



No one said it was Hall of fame worthy, just that it was nowhere near as bad as you implied.

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:53 PM
I was listening to the t-bolt game (t-bolts win 7 -2. Now 66 up and 27 down) and watching the Sox. Sorry but I don't think these are good stats.

5.2 innings pitched
108 pitches
5 runs (2 earned)
7 hits allowed
1 wild pitch
1 error
5.41 ERA ...

I am glad you do though.

8 K's, as well.

And as I mentioned before, he would have had at least one more IP with all the extra pitches he had to throw in the third inning. His 'error' should have been interference, as well.

Vernam
08-30-2007, 11:54 PM
Renewing your tickets?I know you weren't asking me, but . . . This past week has me seriously rethinking whether to renew for '08. If I didn't have $1,000 built up in my Sox account from sales on the Ticket Exchange, I probably would cancel. All the talk about this team turning it around is starting to seem like wishful thinking. There are a few position players here who I think would make good pieces of a team, but no one I'd want to build around. The pitching staff no longer strikes fear into anyone. And next year Ozzie will have to prove all over again that he can manage -- that's how terrible this year has been, less than two years removed from a championship. Un ****ing believable.

That being said, I could only feel sorry for Gonzalez. These games are meaningless, and the only reason he's at 3B is so Fields can get reps in LF. After tonight, I wouldn't be surprised if he comes down with what Mike Andrews, Steve Sax, and Chuck Knoblauch had. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Vernam

kittle42
08-30-2007, 11:54 PM
Someone said it best the other day but i'll say it again, I don't envy Kenny's off-season, he has a mess to try to figure out and it's not going to be an easy fix

He made the mess. He better clean it up. And not with more Darin Erstad or Rob Mackowiak or KC bullpen castoff type bull****.

Brian26
08-30-2007, 11:55 PM
I'll take Mike Caruso over Juan Uribe. :cool:

You'll note, of course, that Caruso was so bad in '99 that he never played another major league game until KC picked him up for 12 games in 2002 (in which he batted .100).

Wow, our shortstop situation is bad. :D:

chisoxmike
08-30-2007, 11:56 PM
He made the mess. He better clean it up. And not with more Darin Erstad or Rob Mackowiak or KC bullpen castoff type bull****.

But they're grinders and throw hard.:rolleyes:

I really hope Sox fans don't fall for the Kenny Williams bull**** about "market correction" either a lack of or due to one. Or how the Sox "are not in a position to 'go down that road," and filling roles with "B" line players that are winners on other teams.

CHISOXFAN13
08-30-2007, 11:57 PM
I was listening to the t-bolt game (t-bolts win 7 -2. Now 66 up and 27 down) and watching the Sox. Sorry but I don't think these are good stats.

5.2 innings pitched
108 pitches
5 runs (2 earned)
7 hits allowed
1 wild pitch
1 error
5.41 ERA ...

I am glad you do though.

It does not matter what should have been. What matters is what is. Tonight IMO he was bad.

Where the **** did I say he was good? I simply stated you were too busy talking to yourself in a six replay thread that nobody else has posted in.

Looks like I was the only one who was correct in this ridiculous conversation.

kittle42
08-30-2007, 11:57 PM
I have a feeling that at least two of those guys will not only be on the team, but will be in the starting lineup (Richar and Fields).

All those folks who cited Richar's "strength" - he takes a lot of pitches - what good is it if he never ****ing gets on base in the end? He's just another useless player.

And all those calling for the other AAA callups (and don't get me wrong, they should let people have chances) - there's a reason Charlotte sucked this year, too.

JB98
08-30-2007, 11:58 PM
The reason you feel this way is due to expectations. Talent-wise, there's no way this is a worse team than the '88 or '89 team. Or the '99 team.

The 1999 team won 75 games, and it had Frank, Maggs and CLee. They weren't this bad.

1989 is close. I originally said this was the worst team since 1989. The pathetic showing this last three weeks has caused them to be downgraded further.

oeo
08-30-2007, 11:59 PM
All those folks who cited Richar's "strength" - he takes a lot of pitches - what good is it if he never ****ing gets on base in the end? He's just another useless player.

Damn, he's been up for a month. Hold off judgment until at least the end of the year.

I know Owens and Gonzalez will never amount to anything, but Richar impresses me for whatever reason. Just the way he can hang in an AB, like on Monday before his double...he just looks like a big league hitter. I think he's going to be very good for us down the line.

Patrick134
08-30-2007, 11:59 PM
I know you weren't asking me, but . . . This past week has me seriously rethinking whether to renew for '08. If I didn't have $1,000 built up in my Sox account from sales on the Ticket Exchange, I probably would cancel. All the talk about this team turning it around is starting to seem like wishful thinking. There are a few position players here who I think would make good pieces of a team, but no one I'd want to build around. The pitching staff no longer strikes fear into anyone. And next year Ozzie will have to prove all over again that he can manage -- that's how terrible this year has been, less than two years removed from a championship. Un ****ing believable.

That being said, I could only feel sorry for Gonzalez. These games are meaningless, and the only reason he's at 3B is so Fields can get reps in LF. After tonight, I wouldn't be surprised if he comes down with what Mike Andrews, Steve Sax, and Chuck Knoblauch had. And I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Vernam



It's easy to be a fan after the world series, and high five everybody. Times like these are true tests for a fan. If anyone wants to jump ship now by all means do. We don't need you. It's obvious that while 2005 was awesome, it wasn't the beginning of a dynasty. The road to a world series, with all it's ups and downs, can be as enjoyable as winning it itself.

kittle42
08-31-2007, 12:00 AM
Damn, he's been up for a month. Hold off judgment until at least the end of the year.

I really don't care if he goes out there and sucks it up another month. Fine by me.

Time's up at the end of the year. Can't wait any longer than that.

JB98
08-31-2007, 12:00 AM
It's easy to be a fan after the world series, and high five everybody. Times like these are true tests for a fan. If anyone wants to jump ship now by all means do. We don't need you. It's obvious that while 2005 was awesome, it wasn't the beginning of a dynasty. The road to a world series, with all it's ups and downs, can be as enjoyable as winning it itself.

If I can afford it, I'm keeping my tickets. I haven't lost faith that 2008 can be a good season, despite the steaming pile of horse**** before us here in 2007.

chisoxmike
08-31-2007, 12:02 AM
It's easy to be a fan after the world series, and high five everybody. Times like these are true tests for a fan. If anyone wants to jump ship now by all means do. We don't need you. It's obvious that while 2005 was awesome, it wasn't the beginning of a dynasty. The road to a world series, with all it's ups and downs, can be as enjoyable as winning it itself.

So not getting season tickets on a **** team and not wanting to spend thousand of dollars on a **** team is "jumping ship?" Thats bull****.

I love the holier than thou Sox fan that tells everyone they are bad fans becuase they don't want to watch this **** and don't want to deal with the kids on the field. Some people can't afford it. Some people who can't afford it, but still get them, like me, do it becuase they love this team. But sometimes, you gotta realize that you can't do it for a team that isn't going to be worth it.

Don't tell me I'm not a true fan becuase I may or may not want to get season tickets in '08 and '09, becuase you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 12:04 AM
So not getting season tickets on a **** team and not wanting to spend thousand of dollars on a **** team is "jumping ship?" Thats bull****.

I love the holier than thou Sox fan that tells everyone they are bad fans becuase they don't want to watch this **** and don't want to deal with the kids on the field. Some people can't afford it. Some people who can't afford it, but still get them, like me, do it becuase they love this team. But sometimes, you gotta realize they you can't do it for a team that isn't going to be worth it.


I didn't say anyone has to buy season tickets to be a true fan.

Hitmen77
08-31-2007, 12:04 AM
Why does anyone care? The players don't.

And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

If I'm not mistaken, these last 2 months of the season (after the Iguchi trade) were meant to be a tryout for Richar for the starting 2B job for 2008. We're halfway through that period and he's not looking too good to me.

So, unless he has a great Sept., does that mean KW will go out and seek a 2B via free agency or do they stick with Richar and hope for the best in '08?

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 12:05 AM
What do you honestly expect?

The Sox are playing 3 rookies and Andy Gonzales. They have 3 guys in the regular lineup hitting over .250 -THREE!

They are starting 2 rookies in the starting rotation because two of their veterans are struggling with injuries all year long or just plain lost it. The bullpen is filled with journeymen and rookies until you get to the final two guys.

Defensively they have two guys starting out of position just to find out if one of them can actually play one of the two positions and right now it looks like the answer there is a big fat NO, but perhaps after another 30 games of trying to surround the baseball, Fields will develop into a guy who actually can play left-field at least a serviceable level.

The Sox are playing out the string and trying to see who should be on the team next year. You guys act like they should be winning all sorts of ball games. Who cares? I mean honestly who ****ing cares how many games they win the rest of the season. Less is actually better because it guarantees a higher draft pick.

Get over it. It's not about 2007 anymore and if you want to see a better team in 2008 you will have to learn to live with the losses.

Does winning 75 really mean that much to you? Sheesh...:rolleyes:

QCIASOXFAN
08-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Serious question, when was the last time we had a comeback victory? Every time I watch the other team take the lead we just drop like a sack of potatoes. I know they try (or hope they do) but after we give up a lead I see a lot of poor ab's from the hitters.

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 12:06 AM
If the Sox get swept in Cleveland, let's all agree to disband and root for separate teams.

I got Philly, Gooch pitched hit in the bottom of the 9th and drove in the tieing run, stole 2nd, and then scored the winning run scoring on a single.

chisoxmike
08-31-2007, 12:06 AM
Serious question, when was the last time we had a comeback victory? Eveytime I watch the other team take the lead we just fall like a sack of potatoes. I know they try (or hope they do) but after we give up a lead I see a lot more poor ab's from the hitters.

Elvis night?

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 12:07 AM
If I'm not mistaken, these last 2 months of the season (after the Iguchi trade) were meant to be a tryout for Richar for the starting 2B job for 2008. We're halfway through that period and he's not looking too good to me.

So, unless he has a great Sept., does that mean KW will go out and seek a 2B via free agency or do they stick with Richar and hope for the best in '08?

Defensively he looks fine to me, but he is obviously struggling to hit well at the moment. Every time he seems to be getting it together the next few games he goes back in the ditch...

rowand33
08-31-2007, 12:07 AM
I just got home from the game.

Absolutely brutal to watch.

I did get my first ever foul ball though! So at least one positive thing happened tonight.

oeo
08-31-2007, 12:07 AM
If I'm not mistaken, these last 2 months of the season (after the Iguchi trade) were meant to be a tryout for Richar for the starting 2B job for 2008. We're halfway through that period and he's not looking too good to me.

Again, if you just look at the statistics, he looks like crap. But if you've watched him at the plate, you can see the promise. Give him the other month, hopefully the good ABs start turning into base hits. If not, then I don't know what...Uribe might be back next year. :o:

Parrothead
08-31-2007, 12:08 AM
Where the **** did I say he was good? I simply stated you were too busy talking to yourself in a six replay thread that nobody else has posted in.

I am giving daily updates for the few of the people out there who go or read about them. You know grass roots type marketing. There really is nothing to reply about. See ya there on Sept. 4th. Yes, playoffs on the southside. What a concept! Wait til I start the Frontier league playoff thread. I am sure you will be happy then.

P.S. one post per day is not really keeping me busy for that long.

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 12:08 AM
Serious question, when was the last time we had a comeback victory? Eveytime I watch the other team take the lead we just drop like a sack of potatoes. I know they try (or hope they do) but after we give up a lead I see a lot of poor ab's from the hitters.


Monday. Comeback victory. 5 runs in the 7th inning. Sox win, 5-4.

chisoxmike
08-31-2007, 12:09 AM
Monday. Comeback victory. 5 runs in the 7th inning. Sox win, 5-4.

Wow! I've already forgotten about that game.

QCIASOXFAN
08-31-2007, 12:10 AM
I just got home from the game.

Absolutely brutal to watch.

I did get my first ever foul ball though! So at least one positive thing happened tonight.
You picked a bad one to attend. Congrats on the foul ball though.:cheers:

chisoxmike
08-31-2007, 12:13 AM
I didn't say anyone has to buy season tickets to be a true fan.

But, you posted that in response to someone talking about renewing their ST.

QCIASOXFAN
08-31-2007, 12:13 AM
Wow! I've already forgotten about that game.
I did to. Ok how about before that 5-4 win??

Patrick134
08-31-2007, 12:14 AM
But, you posted that in response to someone talking about renewing their ST.


True, my bad. That was more of a general comment than to the original poster.

kitekrazy
08-31-2007, 12:14 AM
And all those calling for the other AAA callups (and don't get me wrong, they should let people have chances) - there's a reason Charlotte sucked this year, too.

There seems to be a lot of bad defense. Some of these mistakes don't even happen at the high school level.
I don't know how long it takes to rebuild a minor league system but the Sox will probably have to keep a $100M payroll every year just to keep from last place.

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 12:17 AM
Again, if you just look at the statistics, he looks like crap. But if you've watched him at the plate, you can see the promise. Give him the other month, hopefully the good ABs start turning into base hits. If not, then I don't know what...Uribe might be back next year. :o:

I agree, give him September and let's see. It has to be demoralizing for the rookies to try to prove themselves on this team. As for Uribe being back next year, oh no :whiner:

kittle42
08-31-2007, 12:18 AM
So, unless he has a great Sept., does that mean KW will go out and seek a 2B via free agency or do they stick with Richar and hope for the best in '08?

Pipe dream of the former, ready for the reality of the latter.

Huisj
08-31-2007, 12:18 AM
I'll take Buehrle over Jamie Navarro.

Ok, but . . .

The '99 team hit .277 as a team. That's better than anyone on the roster right now.

That team had a young Konerko, a young Lee, a young Ordonez, a young Singleton with his big rookie year, Ray Durham hit almost .300, a career year from Brooke Fordyce, and Frank Thomas battling a foot injury (which handcuffed him to a terrible .305 batting average. Heck, even Greg Norton hit about as good as Fields has hit, and Caruso had a higher BA and OBP than Uribe. To think that the pieces that make up this 2007 offense right now will ever have as many quality players as that lineup produced/had is a joke.

kittle42
08-31-2007, 12:20 AM
There seems to be a lot of bad defense. Some of these mistakes don't even happen at the high school level.
I don't know how long it takes to rebuild a minor league system but the Sox will probably have to keep a $100M payroll every year just to keep from last place.

If this is what $100M hath wrought, better make it $200M.

WhiteSox5187
08-31-2007, 12:21 AM
I think Richar will be a great major league player one day, but that day isnt going to be in 2008. I think that he needs more time to develop (even though I know he was doing quite well there) but he's over matched by major league pitching. We're in between a rock and hard place, we need an entirely new team up the middle (exception being catcher) and it will be hard to do that with FAs and i have no faith in Kenny with trades. A lot of people here are screaming for Ozzie's head, I'm shocked that more people aren't screaming for Kenny's too. Kenny built this sorry excuse for a team.

Tragg
08-31-2007, 12:21 AM
Again, if you just look at the statistics, he looks like crap. But if you've watched him at the plate, you can see the promise. Give him the other month, hopefully the good ABs start turning into base hits.
I don't see the Sox play very often - just follow the box scores. But is Richar still getting the good long at bats like he did when he first came up?
I worry that he develops the bad habits - plate impatience - possessed by most of this team.

Vernam
08-31-2007, 12:30 AM
I really hope Sox fans don't fall for the Kenny Williams bull**** about "market correction" either a lack of or due to one. Or how the Sox "are not in a position to 'go down that road," and filling roles with "B" line players that are winners on other teams.I feel ya, but I also don't see that happening.

Sox management must be scared ****less that this team has squandered so much of the good will created by 2005. KW is on record saying he knew it would take at least two championships to make real inroads toward cutting into the Cubs' fan base. But I also think he expected to have a longer honeymoon after the WS05 win. Despite last year's disappointment, people would still be pretty patient if the 2007 team had been remotely competitive. But they are NOT even remotely competitive. I'm pretty die-hard, and if I'm considering not renewing my full-season tix, then a lot of other people must be rethinking it now, too. Even two weeks ago, I was committed to 2008. What's happened since then leaves no room for optimism until major changes happen.

They're also on-record saying 2008 will not be a rebuilding year. Assuming they don't back away from that -- and ethically, they'd have to backtrack before the season-ticket renewal forms get mailed -- then they have little choice but to go after a major free agent or two and dump as many of the current stiffs as they can.

KW isn't the noop that some people claim he is, but he's also not the genius some of us not long ago thought he was. Maybe he gets a mulligan because the whole world over-estimated this year's bullpen, but the Pods/Erstad signings were a clear miscalculation. Now the man has his work cut out for him, because trading virtually any veteran on the current roster will mean getting far less than what would have been market value for that same player just six months ago. Combine that with the fact that no young player after Fields looks ready to make an impact, and KW needs to get extremely creative to reload on the fly. I wouldn't put it past him, but if they win the division next year, he'll probably get that Executive of the Year award he deserved back in 2005.

Vernam

A. Cavatica
08-31-2007, 12:31 AM
I got Philly, Gooch pitched hit in the bottom of the 9th and drove in the tieing run, stole 2nd, and then scored the winning run scoring on a single.

Guch did more in this game than Michael Dubee will in his whole career. :(:

Vernam
08-31-2007, 12:39 AM
It's easy to be a fan after the world series, and high five everybody. Times like these are true tests for a fan. If anyone wants to jump ship now by all means do. We don't need you. It's obvious that while 2005 was awesome, it wasn't the beginning of a dynasty. The road to a world series, with all it's ups and downs, can be as enjoyable as winning it itself.**** off, with all due respect. I'm still watching these games -- I have to throw good money after bad to prove I'm a fan? Anyone who doesn't shell out for a full season package isn't a fan? :rolleyes: You, sir, have no right to question how I spend my hard-earned cash.

Vernam

ZombieRob
08-31-2007, 12:49 AM
I feel ya, but I also don't see that happening.

Sox management must be scared ****less that this team has squandered so much of the good will created by 2005. KW is on record saying he knew it would take at least two championships to make real inroads toward cutting into the Cubs' fan base. But I also think he expected to have a longer honeymoon after the WS05 win. Despite last year's disappointment, people would still be pretty patient if the 2007 team had been remotely competitive. But they are NOT even remotely competitive. I'm pretty die-hard, and if I'm considering not renewing my full-season tix, then a lot of other people must be rethinking it now, too. Even two weeks ago, I was committed to 2008. What's happened since then leaves no room for optimism until major changes happen.

They're also on-record saying 2008 will not be a rebuilding year. Assuming they don't back away from that -- and ethically, they'd have to backtrack before the season-ticket renewal forms get mailed -- then they have little choice but to go after a major free agent or two and dump as many of the current stiffs as they can.

KW isn't the noop that some people claim he is, but he's also not the genius some of us not long ago thought he was. Maybe he gets a mulligan because the whole world over-estimated this year's bullpen, but the Pods/Erstad signings were a clear miscalculation. Now the man has his work cut out for him, because trading virtually any veteran on the current roster will mean getting far less than what would have been market value for that same player just six months ago. Combine that with the fact that no young player after Fields looks ready to make an impact, and KW needs to get extremely creative to reload on the fly. I wouldn't put it past him, but if they win the division next year, he'll probably get that Executive of the Year award he deserved back in 2005.

Vernam
Very good post and well said.Also I won't stop watching these clowns on the field because I'm a White Sox fan.And just because this team has given up on themselves doesn't mean I'll ever give up on them.

rowand33
08-31-2007, 12:54 AM
You picked a bad one to attend. Congrats on the foul ball though.:cheers:
I sure did. FANTASTIC seats though. 28 rows behind home plate dead center.

JB98
08-31-2007, 12:56 AM
I don't see the Sox play very often - just follow the box scores. But is Richar still getting the good long at bats like he did when he first came up?
I worry that he develops the bad habits - plate impatience - possessed by most of this team.

Richar was up in the ninth last night with runners on second and third and only one out. He basically struck himself out by swinging at bad pitches. That could just be a rookie pressing in a big situation, or he might be developing bad habits.

Continue to run him out there for 29 more games and continue the evaluation process. Right now, the kid is struggling, without question.

Taliesinrk
08-31-2007, 01:45 AM
Why does anyone care? The players don't.

And again, if any more than one of these people is on the team in April 2008, I will vomit: Fields, Gonzalez, Richar, Owens, Uribe. And you can probably guess which one I'd be fine with.

Gonzalez??

ShoelessJoeS
08-31-2007, 01:51 AM
I'm still in denial that the Sox suck this bad. In my mind, they won 6-3 tonight!

:redneck

ZombieRob
08-31-2007, 01:59 AM
I saw in an earlier post that listed all the young guys that shouldn't be on this team.Why are the Vets getting a pass? Most of the young guys may stink or not be ready but at least i see them trying.IMO it's the vets mailing it in .But yet alot of Sox fans are in love with them and loyal to them to a fault.And thats the B.S of it all.

Blueprint1
08-31-2007, 02:14 AM
I have no clue what we should do. I really am totally clueless about this team. We are so bad right now its completely sick.

ZombieRob
08-31-2007, 02:24 AM
I have no clue what we should do. I really am totally clueless about this team. We are so bad right now its completely sick.
I don't think this team has a clue either.And thats the scary part.IMO this team is on the fringe of being the K.C Royals for a few years.No minor league system.No players really on the current roster anybody really wants.K.W has his work cut out for sure.

BainesHOF
08-31-2007, 03:07 AM
It was offensive to me as a Sox fan and season-ticket holder that Gonzalez was still on the roster after his Saturday defensive debacle when he fell asleep in left field. A good manager would have pulled him in the middle of the game. But not only did Gonzalez stay in the game and on the team, but there he was back in the starting lineup on Sunday. Ridiculous.

There's been virtually no accountability on the team this season. You wonder why our bad play continues? Because it's totally tolerated. See our shortstop for the most glaring example. Our center fielder bunts less as his average sinks. And now Gonzalez can't even bother himself to concentrate enough to throw the ball back to the infield in an alert manner, yet he's allowed to stay in the lineup and commit 3 errors in one inning. That'll probably earn him a start at shortstop and a move to the cleanup spot tomorrow.

Our worst offenders are the players who should be hustling the most to secure a spot on the team in 2008. Yet those same players play stupidly and lazily, and nothing is done to change that.

And the beat goes on...

roadrunner
08-31-2007, 03:24 AM
It's easy to be a fan after the world series, and high five everybody. Times like these are true tests for a fan. If anyone wants to jump ship now by all means do. We don't need you. It's obvious that while 2005 was awesome, it wasn't the beginning of a dynasty. The road to a world series, with all it's ups and downs, can be as enjoyable as winning it itself.


Any frustration expressed by a fan is justified. In fact, that very expression is what defines what it means to be a fan. Where is yours?

Grzegorz
08-31-2007, 05:46 AM
I hate the team too. Worst Sox team in my 31-year lifetime.

Don't know if I can muster that much anger anymore.

I have to agree about this being the worst CWS team in my life.

JB98, don't contain your anger that's what we're here for. :') As long as we do not engage in personal attacks this board will be all the therapy you need. :')

When is the Chicago White Sox convention this year???

I'm going to try not to. But, if I can't sell my tickets, I guess I have no choice, the tickets are paid for already.

Yeah, I'll renew. But like kittle42 has been saying, if Owens, Richar, Gonzalez, and the other hacks are still on this team, I'll be extremely pissed.

Mike, you need a latte...

KW cannot get rid of the whole team. I expect to see Richar here as a starter and Owens coming off the bench.

I'd like to see Crede back with Wilson at short, Richar at second, and PK at first.

I am hoping that Sweeney or BA (though I feel he'll be traded in the off-season) getting time in the OF would be great too.

A healthy Toby Hall will be a boost. Bullpen help, a SS, and a CF are a must. Anything less will be a slap in the face of the fans.

Things look disastrous now, but there is always hope. Face it, either KW & OG get it done next year or they should be let go.

Frater Perdurabo
08-31-2007, 07:11 AM
I sure did. FANTASTIC seats though. 28 rows behind home plate dead center.

Did you bring your broom? :tongue:

Seriously, congrats on the foul ball!

wassagstdu
08-31-2007, 07:56 AM
Great game. Rowand hit a HR and Iguchi drove in the tying run in the ninth (after Jayson Werth singled, stole second and third), stole second, and scored the winning run against Billy Wagner. These guys are upholding the honor of the 2005 Sox. But seriously, I watched a replay of the Phillies-Mets instead of the Sux-Rangers, the contrast between the way the (usually hapless) Phillies are playing and the zombie Sox is stunning.

Viva Medias B's
08-31-2007, 08:20 AM
I am just so sick of this team that I think we need a major league housecleaning.

alohafri
08-31-2007, 08:29 AM
The '99 team would knock these Sox out of the park!

These guys are a SMALL Tampa Bay winning streak away from being the worst team in major league baseball. If the Rays play the Yankees or Red Sox, we are done.

I have a sad feeling that this is not just a one year thing.

stl_sox_fan
08-31-2007, 08:43 AM
Andy Gonzalez joins Aaron Miles as players this year with 3 errors in one inning.
So he's got that going for him...

T-minus 10 days until Football!!!!!

Viva Medias B's
08-31-2007, 08:56 AM
I have a sad feeling that this is not just a one year thing.

It better not be more than a one year thing. If there is no reasonably significant improvement in 2008, Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen should both be replaced.

Jurr
08-31-2007, 09:11 AM
It better not be more than a one year thing. If there is no reasonably significant improvement in 2008, Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen should both be replaced.
Oh, if this crap continued next year, Ozzie wouldn't make it to July. KW would become headless in October.

mwc44
08-31-2007, 09:14 AM
I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll be adding this same post every game day for the rest of the season.

See signature quote of "Da Coach"... just change the team reference to the 2007 Chicago White Sox. :angry: :(: :angry:

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 09:16 AM
It was offensive to me as a Sox fan and season-ticket holder that Gonzalez was still on the roster after his Saturday defensive debacle when he fell asleep in left field. A good manager would have pulled him in the middle of the game. But not only did Gonzalez stay in the game and on the team, but there he was back in the starting lineup on Sunday. Ridiculous.

There's been virtually no accountability on the team this season. You wonder why our bad play continues? Because it's totally tolerated. See our shortstop for the most glaring example. Our center fielder bunts less as his average sinks. And now Gonzalez can't even bother himself to concentrate enough to throw the ball back to the infield in an alert manner, yet he's allowed to stay in the lineup and commit 3 errors in one inning. That'll probably earn him a start at shortstop and a move to the cleanup spot tomorrow.

Our worst offenders are the players who should be hustling the most to secure a spot on the team in 2008. Yet those same players play stupidly and lazily, and nothing is done to change that.

And the beat goes on...

Well hold on. Who says Gonzales is going to be on the team next year? I'd be pretty surprised if he is. Only reason he is on the team now is because of Crede's injury, Cintron's personal life problems and the fact that they are trying to turn Fields into a left fielder. What's the point of going and signing someone else, just to spend money?

I understand the frustration, but how about a little objectivity?

salty99
08-31-2007, 09:25 AM
It was offensive to me as a Sox fan and season-ticket holder that Gonzalez was still on the roster after his Saturday defensive debacle when he fell asleep in left field. A good manager would have pulled him in the middle of the game. But not only did Gonzalez stay in the game and on the team, but there he was back in the starting lineup on Sunday. Ridiculous.



While this may be true, with Fields now permanently in left field there is noone else to play third until Cintron comes back.

palehozenychicty
08-31-2007, 09:49 AM
I've seen worse Sox teams before like the 106 loss 1970 team. The '76 and '68 & '69 were terrible also.

This years team has turned me off like no other Sox team I can remember. To have a potential HoF player like Thome along with solid career hitters such as Konerko, Dye , and AJ should make for somewhat of a potent line up.

I am not excited about the Sox getting a high draft pick because automatically they will avoid any players Boras has signed. Plus Kenny will look for reclamation projects for trades or free agent signings.:mad:

Next year WILL be better ....it can't be any worse:o:

How can it get better if management does not allow the bolded to happen? If they want to be a consistent winner, you HAVE to develop some players to form a core. It's just the reality of any sports team. They better get the best young players they can, money be damned.

soxrme
08-31-2007, 09:53 AM
It better not be more than a one year thing. If there is no reasonably significant improvement in 2008, Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen should both be replaced.
See Phil Rogers column in tribune today, he says it well.

slavko
08-31-2007, 10:56 AM
Backed up with big contracts, no payroll flexibility, therefore can't sign free agents, farm system producing nothing, the kids can't play, current stars on the decline, no replacements in sight. The right thing to do would have been a salary dump for young talent, then sign mid-level free agents, a bitter pill to swallow and would have hacked off most of this board but the right course nonetheless, instead we locked up the aging talent.

Whomever referred to 1970, we're there again and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Who to root for the rest of the year? Against the Cubbies, of course.

oeo
08-31-2007, 11:09 AM
Oh, if this crap continued next year, Ozzie wouldn't make it to July. KW would become headless in October.

Again, I highly doubt this. I just don't see Reinsdorf firing KW, unless the team is complete and utter crap for a few years. They have too good of a relationship, which isn't always a good thing.

See Phil Rogers column in tribune today, he says it well.

Phil Rogers never says anything well.

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 11:25 AM
Backed up with big contracts, no payroll flexibility, therefore can't sign free agents, farm system producing nothing, the kids can't play, current stars on the decline, no replacements in sight. The right thing to do would have been a salary dump for young talent, then sign mid-level free agents, a bitter pill to swallow and would have hacked off most of this board but the right course nonetheless, instead we locked up the aging talent.

Whomever referred to 1970, we're there again and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. Who to root for the rest of the year? Against the Cubbies, of course.

What "aging talent" did they "lock up"? Contreras seems the only obvious problem who is also "aging" but when they signed him it was "obviously the right move" to anyone who was paying attention.

Dye for two more years - great signing and the numbers he has put up since the cortisone shots and breather during the ASG seem to bear that out.

Paulie is a bit of a big contract but he's not exactly old and is still having a solid if unspectacular season.

In addition, PK and Dye have been two of our best offensive players this season - which doesn't say as much about the year they are having as it does how poorly the rest of the team has performed, but still.

No one else really comes to mind. I assume you don't mean Garland, Vazquez or Buehrle, so exactly where are the problem aging contracts? :dunno:

Hitmen77
08-31-2007, 11:35 AM
I got Philly, Gooch pitched hit in the bottom of the 9th and drove in the tieing run, stole 2nd, and then scored the winning run scoring on a single.

There is just something wrong with the fact that Iguchi goes to another team and now he's hitting .300 there, getting clutch hits, stealing bases, etc.

I don't totally buy the excuse that it's simply because the NL has worse pitching. There is just something wrong at the core of this team. Just about everyone is underperforming. When this happens on other teams, they have major shakeups in personnel. On the Sox, apparently no one is accountable for this total team failure.

The Dude
08-31-2007, 11:44 AM
I got Atlanta!

Atlanta sucks. Go Mets and your $40!:bandance:

BainesHOF
08-31-2007, 12:43 PM
While this may be true, with Fields now permanently in left field there is noone else to play third until Cintron comes back.

That would be just a lame excuse from a losing organization. You send Gonzalez down and bring up the best alternative in the minor leagues. What Gonzalez pulled in left field last Saturday should not be tolerated. It sends a sign that anything goes without consequences. We suffered one of the biggest ass-kickings in a four-game series in baseball's past 50 years and absolutely nothing happened afterward, except of course most embarrassing effort and performances.

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 12:47 PM
That would be just a lame excuse from a losing organization. You send Gonzalez down and bring up the best alternative in the minor leagues. What Gonzalez pulled in left field last Saturday should not be tolerated. It sends a sign that anything goes without consequences. We suffered one of the biggest ass-kickings in a four-game series in baseball's past 50 years and absolutely nothing happened afterward, except of course most embarrassing effort and performances.

Who is the best option at 3B in the minors? What is their development path? How close are they to being ready to hit major league pitching? Would bringing them up now damage their development? Are they a better option than the guys who are currently on the roster?

Your idea sounds great on the surface, but the Sox may well have good reasons for keeping Gonzales on the roster at the moment...

Lip Man 1
08-31-2007, 12:52 PM
Baines and Hitmen:

You either mention directly or imply 'accountability'....I thought this was a pretty fair and honest look at the situation and discusses your point:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/536310,CST-SPT-deluca31.article

Lip

SBSoxFan
08-31-2007, 01:19 PM
Baines and Hitmen:

You either mention directly or imply 'accountability'....I thought this was a pretty fair and honest look at the situation and discusses your point:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/536310,CST-SPT-deluca31.article

Lip

I don't know Lip, the last part of the article sounded like something that would be posted here.

But many of the White Sox stopped caring last September. ... When the Indians collapsed that final week of the 2005 season, at least they left it all out on the field in the process. The '06 Sox? They nearly set records for completing the fastest games. This was a team hurrying to end the season.:rolleyes:

Does he have some proof of that? Things are bad, but things often look worse than they usually are. This is just another case of piling on. I for one am tired of people saying the players quit, because I find that nearly impossible to believe. No one wants to be embarrassed at their profession, and these guys have their results laid out for all to see. I just think someone at this level would have too much pride to tank plays and at bats due to apathy.

TheVulture
08-31-2007, 01:27 PM
That is what the management said about everyone in spring training. I will believe it when I see it. Of course I am considered a ......
:darkclouds:

I think we are all dark clouds at this point.

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 01:36 PM
I think we are all dark clouds at this point.

No, it's just 95% of what's left posting in the Clubhouse. Most of the optimists are simply washing their hands of this season and are waiting to see how things develop in the off season while hoping for the best.

Only people who revel in the losses, live to assign blame or are looking to say, "I told you so" and "Fire KW! Fire Ozzie! Back up the ****ing truck, nothing on this team worth redeeming save Roger Bossard and Nancy" keep coming to post their pearls of wisdom.

Me, I'm still sitting in the shotgun seat while watching KW and OG discuss which of the wheels needs to be fixed first before we can resume driving it in 2008...

southside rocks
08-31-2007, 01:49 PM
No, it's just 95% of what's left posting in the Clubhouse. Most of the optimists are simply washing their hands of this season and are waiting to see how things develop in the off season while hoping for the best.

Only people who revel in the losses, live to assign blame or are looking to say, "I told you so" and "Fire KW! Fire Ozzie! Back up the ****ing truck, nothing on this team worth redeeming save Roger Bossard and Nancy" keep coming to post their pearls of wisdom.

Me, I'm still sitting in the shotgun seat while watching KW and OG discuss which of the wheels needs to be fixed first before we can resume driving it in 2008...

You're probably right.

I'm an optimist, and I'm fresh out of optimism for this year. I'm truly, deeply embarrassed now when I watch the games, and I'm embarrassed for the players. The majority of them look like mopes.

I don't know how the players feel about this. I leave that to Ozzie, who is in a position to gauge how much this bothers each guy in that clubhouse.

I'll renew my season ticket package in 2008, and I expect that KW will make quite a few moves this winter ... I can't guess what they are, but I think any inclination he had to stand pat has been undone by what he's seen from this particular group of players over the course of this season.

In the end, we don't have to worry about KW breaking up the WS Championship team -- that team, or what's left of it, is in the process of self-destructing. Yikes. :(:

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 01:58 PM
You're probably right.

I'm an optimist, and I'm fresh out of optimism for this year. I'm truly, deeply embarrassed now when I watch the games, and I'm embarrassed for the players. The majority of them look like mopes.

I don't know how the players feel about this. I leave that to Ozzie, who is in a position to gauge how much this bothers each guy in that clubhouse.

I'll renew my season ticket package in 2008, and I expect that KW will make quite a few moves this winter ... I can't guess what they are, but I think any inclination he had to stand pat has been undone by what he's seen from this particular group of players over the course of this season.

In the end, we don't have to worry about KW breaking up the WS Championship team -- that team, or what's left of it, is in the process of self-destructing. Yikes. :(:

I'm still watching the games too. I'm just not wrapping up any of my ego in the outcome of said games. I'm rooting for wins because I'm a Sox fan. I rooted for Bears wins in the mid-late 90's too.

I'm curious about the young kids and trying to see if they can develop some consistency in the time they have left this season.

Wins are nice, but losses mean less than nothing to me. It just isn't that important...

alohafri
08-31-2007, 02:02 PM
Next year WILL be better ....it can't be any worse:o:

Unfortunately, it can.

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 02:04 PM
Unfortunately, it can.

:?::rolleyes:

Have a couple of these --->:gulp:

and try to relax...

JB98
08-31-2007, 02:06 PM
You're probably right.

I'm an optimist, and I'm fresh out of optimism for this year. I'm truly, deeply embarrassed now when I watch the games, and I'm embarrassed for the players. The majority of them look like mopes.

I don't know how the players feel about this. I leave that to Ozzie, who is in a position to gauge how much this bothers each guy in that clubhouse.

I'll renew my season ticket package in 2008, and I expect that KW will make quite a few moves this winter ... I can't guess what they are, but I think any inclination he had to stand pat has been undone by what he's seen from this particular group of players over the course of this season.

In the end, we don't have to worry about KW breaking up the WS Championship team -- that team, or what's left of it, is in the process of self-destructing. Yikes. :(:

The World Series champions are gone. Look at the current roster. There are only nine guys left who played in the World Series, and that includes a broken-down Pods and an essentially worthless Contreras that KW couldn't give away at the trade deadline.

I think the main problem for KW is the top-heavy nature of the roster. Look at our position players: Konerko, Dye, AJ, Thome. Still a pretty good core, still a pretty good middle of the lineup. But then look at everything else. The supporting cast is brutal. Thome had a helluva series in Texas. No one was on base ahead of him. He didn't drive in anyone other than himself. We lost all three games.

Now look at our pitching staff. Buehrle, Javy and Jenks, all having good years. I'll throw Gar in there because even though he's struggled here in the second half, I know 30 GMs who would take him in a heartbeat. Jon is battling a sore shoulder, but he's not complaining and he's still taking the ball. After those four, what do we have?

Basically, I've mentioned eight players here who are good. The rest of the roster is either injured or dreadfully bad. Among the youngsters, only Fields, Danks and Wassermann have distinguished themselves enough to be considered part of the 2008 plan. KW has to turn over roughly half of this roster. It's going to be tough. I'm very interested to see if he can pull it off, and how he'll try to go about it.

alohafri
08-31-2007, 02:07 PM
:?::rolleyes:

Have a couple of these --->:gulp:

and try to relax...

And you are a doctor, right? Helps me justify it. "But Dear, Dr. Voodo said I needed as many as I could tolerate." :bandance:

voodoochile
08-31-2007, 02:19 PM
And you are a doctor, right? Helps me justify it. "But Dear, Dr. Voodo said I needed as many as I could tolerate." :bandance:

Tell her you had a terrible vision...

On their way out of town for the opening series, the 2008 Sox team plane blew up and crashed into USCF, killing everyone on board and everyone at the ballpark including JR, Nancy (just practicing) Roger Bossard (finishing getting the field ready for opening day) and most of the board of directors who were meeting with JR to discuss the team's future. It also destroyed the ballpark completely except for Hawks microphone and a the part of the outfield wall where Joe Borchard's home run landed. Simultaneously, all of the minor league teams were subject to terrorist attacks aimed at destroying the things America cherishes most dearly. The team was immediately forced to forfeit every game for the season.

In the ensuing transfer of wills, taxes forced the families to sell the team to an Arab Sheik who promptly moved the team to Vegas and renamed them the High Rollers, leaving only the flubbies in Chicago who started out the season going 20-2 on their way to stomping through the playoffs and WS while going 11-0 and outscoring their opponents 160-15 in the 11 games.

Meanwhile the dark clouds were living large at WSI and you came on to post, "I told you it could get worse."

I am sure she'll join you for the beers...:tongue:

BainesHOF
08-31-2007, 02:25 PM
Baines and Hitmen:

You either mention directly or imply 'accountability'....I thought this was a pretty fair and honest look at the situation and discusses your point:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/deluca/536310,CST-SPT-deluca31.article

Lip

Thanks for the link. It's a damning indictman of the team.

I like Konerko, but it's ridiculous that he's our captain. He's got to be the worst captain in the history of sports, and I don't think that's an overstatement. What captain mopes like he does? Jeter is the epitome of a captain, and injects "team" and energy in everything he does.

To be fair, Konerko never asked to be named captain. It's a shame that it was foisted upon him. I saw it at the time as more of a marketing ploy and also an attempt to try to force Konerko into acting the role. That never works.

It's time for a veteran or two calls out the rest of the team. This season is beyond embarrassing. It's now a sporting disgrace.

russ99
08-31-2007, 02:27 PM
The World Series champions are gone. Look at the current roster. There are only nine guys left who played in the World Series, and that includes a broken-down Pods and an essentially worthless Contreras that KW couldn't give away at the trade deadline.

I think the main problem for KW is the top-heavy nature of the roster. Look at our position players: Konerko, Dye, AJ, Thome. Still a pretty good core, still a pretty good middle of the lineup. But then look at everything else. The supporting cast is brutal. Thome had a helluva series in Texas. No one was on base ahead of him. He didn't drive in anyone other than himself. We lost all three games.

Now look at our pitching staff. Buehrle, Javy and Jenks, all having good years. I'll throw Gar in there because even though he's struggled here in the second half, I know 30 GMs who would take him in a heartbeat. Jon is battling a sore shoulder, but he's not complaining and he's still taking the ball. After those four, what do we have?

Basically, I've mentioned eight players here who are good. The rest of the roster is either injured or dreadfully bad. Among the youngsters, only Fields, Danks and Wassermann have distinguished themselves enough to be considered part of the 2008 plan. KW has to turn over roughly half of this roster. It's going to be tough. I'm very interested to see if he can pull it off, and how he'll try to go about it.

Great post. As for the rookies, I think Richar & Owens have played well but haven't put up the numbers at the plate we need to see from them yet. I hope Kenny doesn't depend on either for 2008, since they could either hit their way to a full-time job or be solid bench players next season. I'd rather see a major leaguer who can hit in one or both of those positions.

I also have to wonder if either Thome or Konerko might be dealt in the offseason to decrease the amount of homer and strikeout-happy plodders, reduce a little salary for FAs and fill a few holes with good players in return.

alohafri
08-31-2007, 02:31 PM
Tell her you had a terrible vision...

On their way out of town for the opening series, the 2008 Sox team plane blew up and crashed into USCF, killing everyone on board and everyone at the ballpark including JR, Nancy (just practicing) Roger Bossard (finishing getting the field ready for opening day) and most of the board of directors who were meeting with JR to discuss the team's future. It also destroyed the ballpark completely except for Hawks microphone and a the part of the outfield wall where Joe Borchard's home run landed. Simultaneously, all of the minor league teams were subject to terrorist attacks aimed at destroying the things America cherishes most dearly. The team was immediately forced to forfeit every game for the season.

In the ensuing transfer of wills, taxes forced the families to sell the team to an Arab Sheik who promptly moved the team to Vegas and renamed them the High Rollers, leaving only the flubbies in Chicago who started out the season going 20-2 on their way to stomping through the playoffs and WS while going 11-0 and outscoring their opponents 160-15 in the 11 games.

Meanwhile the dark clouds were living large at WSI and you came on to post, "I told you it could get worse."

I am sure she'll join you for the beers...:tongue:
Are you sure beers are enough to recover from a nightmare like that one? The worst part came after the Arab Sheik reference.

southside rocks
08-31-2007, 02:43 PM
Wins are nice, but losses mean less than nothing to me. It just isn't that important...

I'm more interested in how they play, now, than I am in the score. Of course I'd like them to win. But if the youngsters can learn to play, that will pay off big in future wins. I really believe that. (Told you I was an optimist.)

The World Series champions are gone. Look at the current roster. There are only nine guys left who played in the World Series, and that includes a broken-down Pods and an essentially worthless Contreras that KW couldn't give away at the trade deadline.



I know! It was wishful thinking, to conflate this roster with the team that played in 2005.

I agree with the rest of your post, as well. Boy, does KW have his work cut out for him this winter.

And I don't blame Ozzie at all for his tirades; for Ozzie, he's kept a lid on it for too long. If this helps him sleep better at night -- as he said it has -- then I'm in favor of him making his feelings known. I have always been and remain a big fan of Ozzie Guillen.

Lip Man 1
08-31-2007, 02:47 PM
SB:

I agree no one save for the players themselves know if they 'quit' last September however something happened to the club starting in July 2006 and it got worse as the season moved along towards the end.

My personal opinion is that the Ozzie comments towards Mariotti and the resulting fallout changed him which altered the way he managed and spoke his mind, I think that changed the team but again I have no way of proving this.

Lip

spiffie
08-31-2007, 03:15 PM
SB:

I agree no one save for the players themselves know if they 'quit' last September however something happened to the club starting in July 2006 and it got worse as the season moved along towards the end.

My personal opinion is that the Ozzie comments towards Mariotti and the resulting fallout changed him which altered the way he managed and spoke his mind, I think that changed the team but again I have no way of proving this.

Lip
Mark Buehrle - 2006
1st half: 9-6 4.02 ERA
2nd half: 3-7 6.44 ERA

Jose Contreras - 2006
1st half: 9-0 3.38 ERA
2nd half: 4-9 5.40 ERA

Joe Crede - 2006
4/2/06 - 9/2/06: 303/335/549
9/3/06 - 10/1/06: 145/244/203

Jim Thome - 2006
4/2/06 - 8/15/06: 300/420/632
8/16/06 - 10/1/06: 245/406/482

I guess my question is which of these performances might have been changed had Ozzie Guillen been free to question the sexual preference of the player in question? Which of these guys was just being lazy and didn't want to work hard enough or just needed to be challenged? Which of them would have been so scared of an Ozzie tirade that they would have picked up their game and stayed at the levels they were at before falling off cliffs at the end of the year?

Nellie_Fox
08-31-2007, 03:43 PM
Folks, give yourselves a break and drop this idea of being "embarrassed" by the play of the Sox. Why should you be embarrassed? What did you do? You have absolutely no control over any of it, and thus are not at all responsible. Don't be embarrassed by what someone else is doing. Seriously.

Viva Medias B's
08-31-2007, 05:12 PM
Folks, give yourselves a break and drop this idea of being "embarrassed" by the play of the Sox. Why should you be embarrassed? What did you do? You have absolutely no control over any of it, and thus are not at all responsible. Don't be embarrassed by what someone else is doing. Seriously.

Well, their horrid play has embarrassed our franchise and as fans of that franchise, there is a sense of embarrassment amongst us.

JB98
08-31-2007, 06:53 PM
Folks, give yourselves a break and drop this idea of being "embarrassed" by the play of the Sox. Why should you be embarrassed? What did you do? You have absolutely no control over any of it, and thus are not at all responsible. Don't be embarrassed by what someone else is doing. Seriously.

I'm embarrassed because being a Sox fan is a major part of my identity. Everyone who knows me knows I live and die with the team. Everywhere I go, I get people asking me why this team sucks so bad.

chisoxfanatic
08-31-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm embarrassed because being a Sox fan is a major part of my identity.
I think this is the main reason many here do get embarrassed, and I really know what you're saying. There is even a collegue of mine at work who never refers to me by my real name, but instead calls me "White Sox" all the time! It's just hard to see this stuff over and over again (and over and over). It's too bad the hitting slumped from mid-May on and the bullpen had to suck for all but one month.

southside rocks
08-31-2007, 07:29 PM
Folks, give yourselves a break and drop this idea of being "embarrassed" by the play of the Sox. Why should you be embarrassed? What did you do? You have absolutely no control over any of it, and thus are not at all responsible. Don't be embarrassed by what someone else is doing. Seriously.


I'm embarrassed FOR them, the same way I would be for a friend if he or she got up to make a speech at a public function and forgot it all and stood there looking bewildered in front of 200 people. I am assuming that the players don't WANT to be this bad. If they do, then I should be happy for them, I suppose, because they're succeeding.

To me, part of being a fan is an emotional identification with the team and even with individual players. When Bobby Jenks had that consecutive out streak going, I was very proud for him and if I'd seen him in the local grocery store, I would have congratulated him.

I don't think that I know the players, but their performance in games does produce an emotional reaction in me.

GlassSox
08-31-2007, 08:55 PM
There is just something wrong with the fact that Iguchi goes to another team and now he's hitting .300 there, getting clutch hits, stealing bases, etc.

I don't totally buy the excuse that it's simply because the NL has worse pitching. There is just something wrong at the core of this team. Just about everyone is underperforming. When this happens on other teams, they have major shakeups in personnel. On the Sox, apparently no one is accountable for this total team failure.

I understand that someone called a BATTING COACH worked with Gooch the 1st couple of days when he joined the Phils. Do the Sox have one of those BATTING COACH things?

Lip Man 1
08-31-2007, 10:26 PM
Spiffie:

This is now up on White Sox.com. For what it's worth Ozzie 'apologized' for not being himself and vows to go back to the way he used to be.

We'll see.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070831&content_id=2181188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

JB98
08-31-2007, 10:28 PM
Spiffie:

This is now up on White Sox.com. For what it's worth Ozzie 'apologized' for not being himself and vows to go back to the way he used to be.

We'll see.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070831&content_id=2181188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip

Maybe Ozzie read my post over in the Guillen tirade thread. The manager we need is the 2004-05 Ozzie, who did it his way, everyone else be damned.

spiffie
08-31-2007, 10:43 PM
Spiffie:

This is now up on White Sox.com. For what it's worth Ozzie 'apologized' for not being himself and vows to go back to the way he used to be.

We'll see.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070831&content_id=2181188&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Lip
That's all well and good. Personally I don't really care what Ozzie says as this point, as his talk to the media just sort of runs together after a while. I believe he's called for Kenny to fire him on at least 5 occasions this season.

I give Ozzie credit for demanding changes to the roster following 2004. I give him credit for showing faith in players who really needed some faith shown in them not just in words but in action (like not pulling Garland the minute he hit a rough patch). I give him credit for trying to keep the media focus on him in August 2005.

But I'm sorry. I don't believe that there's a damn thing he could have done to make Thome or Crede hit better near the end of 2006. I don't believe all the rants, raves, cussing, cajoling, or anything else would make Mark Buehrle not fall apart in 2006. And seriously, Jose Contreras came from Cuba. Do you think anything Ozzie could say or do would be more inspiring than the threat of having to face an angry Fidel Castro?

Bottom line is that if Buehrle hadn't imploded, if Jose had stayed healthy, and if Crede's back doesn't fall apart and Thome fall off at the end we'd all be talking about how amazing a job Ozzie did guiding the team back to the playoffs. And unless those guys come out and say "we failed because Ozzie didn't ride us hard enough. We weren't inspired to play well, and we let injuries wear us down because Ozzie got mellow" I'm going to have trouble buying that any words out of Ozzie's mouth would have changed a damn thing last year.