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The Immigrant
08-28-2007, 07:08 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=26474&src=162

If the scouting report on Delcarmen did not mention his cutter, which he started featuring this year, then there is something seriously wrong here.

CLR01
08-28-2007, 07:18 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=26474&src=162

If the scouting report on Delcarmen did not mention his cutter, which he started featuring this year, then there is something seriously wrong here.

As long as Walker and the scouting team are still showing up for the poker game nothing is wrong.

oeo
08-28-2007, 08:36 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=26474&src=162

If the scouting report on Delcarmen did not mention his cutter, which he started featuring this year, then there is something seriously wrong here.

Hopefully this 'shouting match' is a reason to can his ass. That, and they can't hit; constantly going through prolonged slumps. Walker seems like a nice guy, but also seems like crap when it comes to being the coach.

And I realize Ozzie said the whole coaching staff will be back...but will Kenny feel the same way? Let's hope not.

upperdeckusc
08-28-2007, 08:39 AM
while i agree its someones fault for AJ not knowing about the cutter, theres no reason to bring it up in the dugout during the game. u've been working with walker for 3 yrs now........take it to the clubhouse and talk about it there.

palehozenychicty
08-28-2007, 08:44 AM
Hopefully this 'shouting match' is a reason to can his ass. That, and they can't hit; constantly going through prolonged slumps. Walker seems like a nice guy, but also seems like crap when it comes to being the coach.

And I realize Ozzie said the whole coaching staff will be back...but will Kenny feel the same way? Let's hope not.


If Walk is back as the hitting coach, then.....:o: I don't want to think about it.

billcissell
08-28-2007, 10:04 AM
"We've faced Delcarmen 20 times."

Really? I think we've only played Tampa Bay 6-7 times this year. Same number last year. How is it we've faced Delcarmen 20 times? Sorry, doesn't add up.

I guess faulty scouting reports is why we got embarassed over the weekend by Boston. And why we're in last place. Yea, that's it.

Simply a matter of frustration between Walker and A.J. The end result of a season gone very bad. 2007 can't end soon enough for this sorry bunch. It should be a very interesting off-season ...

spawn
08-28-2007, 10:12 AM
"We've faced Delcarmen 20 times."

Really? I think we've only played Tampa Bay 6-7 times this year. Same number last year. How is it we've faced Delcarmen 20 times? Sorry, doesn't add up.

Del Carmen is on the DRays? That's news to me.

champagne030
08-28-2007, 10:40 AM
Del Carmen is on the DRays? That's news to me.

No, but since Delcarmen has made 7 appearances, covering 7 1/3 innings in his career against the White Sox you get the point.

spawn
08-28-2007, 10:46 AM
No, but since Delcarmen has made 7 appearances, covering 7 1/3 innings in his career against the White Sox you get the point.
If my math is correct, 7 1/3 innings pitched translates to 22 batters faced.

Jerko
08-28-2007, 10:54 AM
If my math is correct, 7 1/3 innings pitched translates to 22 batters faced.

So AJ faced him what, 3 times at most? I'm sure not every hitter remembers every pitcher's repertoire.

Fenway
08-28-2007, 10:55 AM
You don't need a scout to know he has been pitching the cutter..Remy talks about it all the time on NESN

These teams SHOULD have all the game tapes from every other team to see on video....the Red Sox have 4 video terminals in the clubhouse that players look at during games and can call up any pitcher on demand.

I have to assume the White Sox have something similar

spawn
08-28-2007, 10:58 AM
So AJ faced him what, 3 times at most? I'm sure not every hitter remembers every pitcher's repertoire.
AJ never said he faced Delcarmen 20 times...he said "we've" faced Delcarmen 20 times. I would think it's up to the hitting coach to remind the hitters of a certain pitcher's repertoire.

champagne030
08-28-2007, 11:12 AM
If my math is correct, 7 1/3 innings pitched translates to 22 batters faced.

So AJ faced him what, 3 times at most? I'm sure not every hitter remembers every pitcher's repertoire.

I took Ozzie's comment to mean that Delcarmen has made 20 appearances against the White Sox.

This was AJ's first AB against him this season. He faced him twice last season.

Jerko
08-28-2007, 11:15 AM
AJ never said he faced Delcarmen 20 times...he said "we've" faced Delcarmen 20 times. I would think it's up to the hitting coach to remind the hitters of a certain pitcher's repertoire.

I said AJ faced him 3 times max.... Ozzie is the one that threw out the "20 times" line and I AGREE the hitting coach should remind the hitters of what certain guys throw. If it's all up to the players, why even HAVE a hitting coach?

Jaffar
08-28-2007, 12:27 PM
For not knowing much about the behind the scenes coaching aspect of the game it came across to me that Walker worked with AJ before the game and failed to go over the cutter with him. Shouldn't AJ getting upset publicly with Walker over this be a red flag as it is?

Fenway
08-28-2007, 01:14 PM
I said AJ faced him 3 times max.... Ozzie is the one that threw out the "20 times" line and I AGREE the hitting coach should remind the hitters of what certain guys throw. If it's all up to the players, why even HAVE a hitting coach?

I think the real question is did Walker know? If the advance scounting missed it then the White Sox have problems that have to be fixed behind the curtain.

southside rocks
08-28-2007, 01:20 PM
I think the real question is did Walker know? If the advance scounting missed it then the White Sox have problems that have to be fixed behind the curtain.

No one has said that Walker did not know. The newspaper accounts said that he blew up at AJ for that very reason: because Walker DID know and because AJ wasn't paying attention during that game prep, Walker felt.

The Sun-TImes account here. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/530732,CST-SPT-sox28.article

There's nothing to indicate that the Sox scouts missed anything, only that AJ made a stupid remark after a bad at-bat and the hitting coach verbally smacked him upside the head for it. BFD.

oeo
08-28-2007, 02:11 PM
....the Red Sox have 4 video terminals in the clubhouse that players look at during games and can call up any pitcher on demand.

I have to assume the White Sox have something similar

So are we going to have to hear about how the Red Sox organization is the second coming of Christ until they get eliminated or what? We get it, the Red Sox do everything right; they're perfect.

Fenway
08-28-2007, 02:19 PM
So are we going to have to hear about how the Red Sox organization is the second coming of Christ until they get eliminated or what? We get it, the Red Sox do everything right; they're perfect.

You are missing the point. They are not doing anything that any other club can't do if they want to spend the money.

The Red Sox are not the only team that does this but I am asking if the White Sox have something similar.

wealz07
08-28-2007, 02:27 PM
You are missing the point. They are not doing anything that any other club can't do if they want to spend the money.

The Red Sox are not the only team that does this but I am asking if the White Sox have something similar.

The Sox prefer to spend their money on Roger Bossard who I guarantee you wins more games for them than that video system does for the Red Sox.

Fenway
08-28-2007, 02:29 PM
The Sox prefer to spend their money on Roger Bossard who I guarantee you wins more games for them than that video system does for the Red Sox.

Roger designed the new field at Fenway :smile:

wealz07
08-28-2007, 02:35 PM
Roger designed the new field at Fenway :smile:

He isn't groundskeeping it though. That's where the magic of Bossard is.

TornLabrum
08-28-2007, 06:41 PM
For not knowing much about the behind the scenes coaching aspect of the game it came across to me that Walker worked with AJ before the game and failed to go over the cutter with him. Shouldn't AJ getting upset publicly with Walker over this be a red flag as it is?

No. Two year olds act like that.

kitekrazy
08-28-2007, 07:27 PM
Does it really matter? Maybe no one can hit his cutter anyway.
It's hard for the press to cover a losing team. So you need to turn something like this into a major controversy.
I was watching a Colt's game that looked like Manning and Tom Moore were shouting at each other. They were because they couldn't hear each other.

hi im skot
08-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Is it just me, or is this pretty much a non-story?

:dunno:

Myrtle72
08-28-2007, 09:13 PM
Is it just me, or is this pretty much a non-story?

:dunno:

It's just a story because there are only so many ways in which one can say "the White Sox are horrible" and they need something else to complain about.

soxinem1
08-29-2007, 01:38 PM
So that is why AJ hits so many pop ups on pitches right down the middle?!?

Is that also why he is well below his career BA, SLB, and OBP? Not to mention the vacation he was on offensively from the start of the season until June.

Walker's no HOF hitting coach, but I think the Sox have been too hard on their hitting coaches since Hriniak was fired. These hitters are professionals and need to be more responsible for their performance than taking it out on some coach who is making a fraction of what they do.

So I am all in favor of him staying. It wasn't Walker's great tutelage that enabled them to crush baseballs the first half of 2006, and it is not his fault that AJ, in his seventh full season, cannot hit a cutter because he didn't know that perennial All-Star reliever Manny DelCarmen has one.

He also knows Mariano Rivera has a cutter and still can't hit it. Grow up, AJ.

The Immigrant
08-29-2007, 02:14 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/08/29/back_troubles_ko_kielty_and_ramrez/

Funniest part about the dugout flareup in Chicago between A.J. Pierzynski of the White Sox and batting coach Greg Walker, with Pierzynski complaining that no one had told him that Sox reliever Manny Delcarmen throws a cutter? "I don't throw a cutter," Delcarmen said yesterday. "[Jason Varitek] said that pitch [Pierzynski] was talking about was as straight as can be. I saw afterward that he was talking a lot to somebody, and then there was a lot of commotion. Sometimes my pitch moves a little, but I don't throw a cutter."

:nuts:

salty99
08-29-2007, 02:58 PM
The story that won't die.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2007, 10:08 AM
As long as Walker and the scouting team are still showing up for the poker game nothing is wrong.

If Walker loses his job, you can mark this as the event that finally sank him. Keeping clubhouse differences private is of primary importance to anyone who never picks up a glove or bat and contributes between the lines.

I agree with your sentiment. Walker should have stuck with poker. He would be miles ahead of where he is now, don't you agree?

CLR01
09-01-2007, 10:10 AM
If Walker loses his job, you can mark this as the event that finally sank him. Keeping clubhouse differences private is of primary importance to anyone who never picks up a glove or bat and contributes between the lines.

I agree with your sentiment. Walker should have stuck with poker. He would be miles ahead of where he is now, don't you agree?

I don't know, I have never played poker with the man. :wink:

Steelrod
09-01-2007, 10:23 AM
What I don't understand is, if the scouting report didn't mention it, isn't it the scout's fault, not Walker's?

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 10:51 AM
This is not a smart-alek question; I really want to know: Why was Hriniak fired in the first place?

I know I'm asking for a beat-down by PHG, but I'm serious as can be when I say that teams ought to employ more than one hitting coach.

For example, I remember that Hriniak's (Lau's) style was contorversial; not every player liked it (Sosa, etc.) and many felt it robbed them of their power. Other players (Ventura, Thomas) did like it. Hindsight's 20/20, but those early 90s Sox should have had Hriniak to coach Thomas, Ventura, etc., and another hitting coach with a different style to coach Sosa, etc.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2007, 11:05 AM
This is not a smart-alek question; I really want to know: Why was Hriniak fired in the first place?

I have no idea why Hriniak was fired. I only know the Sox hitters did not improve in any meaningful way after he left and the best hitter in Sox history remained a disciple of his long after the Sox showed him the door.

Chalk it up to the stupidity of what the Old Sox used to be?

I know I'm asking for a beat-down by PHG, but I'm serious as can be when I say that teams ought to employ more than one hitting coach.

I personally believe every major league ballplayer should seek, and even pay for, professional coaching advice tailored to his own specific needs. Lord knows they earn enough to afford it.

As for the Sox employing more than one hitting coach, I believe the Cubs employed a similar strategy with their College of Coaches back in the early 60's. Contradictory advice is never effective. Count on the Cubs to be so stupid they needed empirical evidence before wising up.

Daver
09-01-2007, 11:10 AM
This is not a smart-alek question; I really want to know: Why was Hriniak fired in the first place?

I know I'm asking for a beat-down by PHG, but I'm serious as can be when I say that teams ought to employ more than one hitting coach.

For example, I remember that Hriniak's (Lau's) style was contorversial; not every player liked it (Sosa, etc.) and many felt it robbed them of their power. Other players (Ventura, Thomas) did like it. Hindsight's 20/20, but those early 90s Sox should have had Hriniak to coach Thomas, Ventura, etc., and another hitting coach with a different style to coach Sosa, etc.

He was fired because all of the young hitters on the team, with the exception of Frank Thomas, refused to listen to him, and did nothing but complain about him. The veteran players for the most part ignored him.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 11:18 AM
I personally believe every major league ballplayer should seek, and even pay for, professional coaching advice tailored to his own specific needs. Lord knows they earn enough to afford it.

I completely agree with that.

As for the Sox employing more than one hitting coach, I believe the Cubs employed a similar strategy with their College of Coaches back in the early 60's. Contradictory advice is never effective. Count on the Cubs to be so stupid they needed empirical evidence before wising up.

I wouldn't want contradictory advice offered. Each player should get individual advice, as you said, "tailored to his own specific needs."

But if the players were not willing to pay for their own professional coaching advice, then perhaps the team should be willing to pay for it.

Good coaching can be purchased for pennies on the dollar - and with the upside of equal or even better results - compared to the marginal improvement offered by signing many free agent players.

If (and I know this probably won't happen) Mark Cuban were to buy the Cubs, I would not be surprised if he paid for players to have their own professional hitting coaches. With the Mavericks, he has almost as many coaches as players - I think he even has a designated "free throw" coach and a coach who only works with the "big men." He may be a quack as an owner, but he's turned that POS franchise into one of the powerhouse teams of the NBA by providing his players with the very best resources.

PaleHoseGeorge
09-01-2007, 11:27 AM
But if the players were not willing to pay for their own professional coaching advice, then perhaps the team should be willing to pay for it.

Good coaching can be purchased for pennies on the dollar - and with the upside of equal or even better results - compared to the marginal improvement offered by signing many free agent players....

It would be interesting to hear what the MLBPA would say about the Sox stipulating that the signing ballplayer must take the advice of a hired professional coach of his own choosing. It sounds coercive to my ears...

I agree coaching is cheap, especially compared to the price of major league talent and the salaries it commands. If a ballplayer is too obstinate to follow any good advice -- paid for or otherwise -- shouldn't that ballplayer be removed from the roster as soon as possible?

This is a solution in search of a problem. MLB already has a means for handling this situation. It's called a trade... or outright release.

Daver
09-01-2007, 11:38 AM
I completely agree with that.



I wouldn't want contradictory advice offered. Each player should get individual advice, as you said, "tailored to his own specific needs."

But if the players were not willing to pay for their own professional coaching advice, then perhaps the team should be willing to pay for it.

Good coaching can be purchased for pennies on the dollar - and with the upside of equal or even better results - compared to the marginal improvement offered by signing many free agent players.


MLB teams are limited to the number of coaches they can have on staff by the CBA, I think the max is 7, so your idea would have each player with his own consultant, and work with that consultant would be away from the teams facility. That is not conducive to building a team, you are instead building twenty five individual ballplayers, but baseball is a team sport.

kitekrazy
09-01-2007, 11:38 AM
I personally believe every major league ballplayer should seek, and even pay for, professional coaching advice tailored to his own specific needs. Lord knows they earn enough to afford it.


It didn't seem like that "let em ride it out" approach really worked for this lineup with they all slumped at once. Is it over yet?
The team got worse at bunting. No one tries to go to the opposite field.
How many times did this team come up empty with bases loaded and no one out?
When a player isn't hitting, do they take the responsibility to spend a few hours in the morning in a batting cage?

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 11:41 AM
It would be interesting to hear what the MLBPA would say about the Sox stipulating that the signing ballplayer must take the advice of a hired professional coach of his own choosing. It sounds coercive to my ears...

Of course a team that I own:tongue: wouldn't put it in contract language. Rather, the owner tells the GM, who tells the manager, who tells the players, that the team will pay the cost for every player to hire a professional hitting coach of his choosing to provide coaching tailored to his specific needs.

If the private tutoring helps, it will be apparent in the player's production. If it doesn't work, then the team can trade or release the player.

If a player doesn't take advantage of that offer and continues to suck, then it's obvious that he sucks as a player AND he has a horse-manure attitude. The decision to release him is even easier, then, and the team can't be blamed for "giving up" on a player.

MLB already has a means for handling this situation. It's called a trade... or outright release.

Absolutely.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 11:44 AM
MLB teams are limited to the number of coaches they can have on staff by the CBA, I think the max is 7, so your idea would have each player with his own consultant, and work with that consultant would be away from the teams facility. That is not conducive to building a team, you are instead building twenty five individual ballplayers, but baseball is a team sport.

I had no idea that was the case. Did the MLBPA or MLB insist on that being part of the CBA?

The two of them together literally are a confederacy of dunces.

kitekrazy
09-01-2007, 11:48 AM
Some players probably do this in the offseason. I heard Thomas did.

Daver
09-01-2007, 11:49 AM
I had no idea that was the case. Did the MLBPA or MLB insist on that being part of the CBA?

The two of them together literally are a confederacy of dunces.

It was an agreement on both parts aimed at keeping competitive balance, all teams can have the same number of coaches.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 11:52 AM
competitive balance

:roflmao:

Competitive balance

:rolling:

kitekrazy
09-01-2007, 11:55 AM
:roflmao:

Competitive balance

:rolling:

My thoughts exactly.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 11:57 AM
It was an agreement on both parts aimed at keeping competitive balance, all teams can have the same number of coaches.

At the risk of sounding like I'm worshipping at the altar of two of the three DFW pro sports team owners (I'm not), smart businessmen like Jerry Jones or Mark Cuban would find a way around this. They can afford better lawyers than Bud Selig and MLBPA.

Daver
09-01-2007, 12:06 PM
At the risk of sounding like I'm worshipping at the altar of two of the three DFW pro sports team owners (I'm not), smart businessmen like Jerry Jones or Mark Cuban would find a way around this. They can afford better lawyers than Bud Selig and MLBPA.

I already told you how to get around it, but is doing so helping or hurting the team?

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 12:38 PM
I already told you how to get around it, but is doing so helping or hurting the team?

It can hurt the team if done wrong but it can help the team if done right.

Tell the players that if they do the private tutoring/coaching, they must do so at times when regular team activities are not scheduled. During the season, that would be in hours before they are expected to report to the stadium for games, or at any time during the offseason. Maybe cutting down on so much resistance training to spend more time practicing batting skills wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Do the team coaching - defensive drills, baserunning drills, etc. - during regular pre-game activities.

The individualized coaching should be a supplement to, not a substitute for, team practices.

Make sure the players know that whatever training they are getting, they are responsible for following the manager's orders during game situations. If the manager calls for the player to bunt, then he bunts. If he calls for him to hit the ball to the right side, then he does so. Trying but failing to execute in those situations is one thing. Disobeying an order - like trying to pull a curveball in the dirt or an outside pitch at eyeball level when your orders are to bunt or hit to the right side - is grounds for benching.

But there are times when going for stats also helps the team. I'd sure like it if the Sox hit better with the bases loaded. If individualized coaching helps more Sox players get big base hits (or even walks) with RISP, that's going to help the team win.

Daver
09-01-2007, 12:45 PM
It can hurt the team if done wrong but it can help the team if done right.

Tell the players that if they do the private tutoring/coaching, they must do so at times when regular team activities are not scheduled. During the season, that would be in hours before they are expected to report to the stadium for games, or at any time during the offseason. Maybe cutting down on so much resistance training to spend more time practicing batting skills wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

Do the team coaching - defensive drills, baserunning drills, etc. - during regular pre-game activities.

The individualized coaching should be a supplement to, not a substitute for, team practices.

Make sure the players know that whatever training they are getting, they are responsible for following the manager's orders during game situations. If the manager calls for the player to bunt, then he bunts. If he calls for him to hit the ball to the right side, then he does so. Trying but failing to execute in those situations is one thing. Disobeying an order - like trying to pull a curveball in the dirt or an outside pitch at eyeball level when your orders are to bunt or hit to the right side - is grounds for benching.

But there are times when going for stats also helps the team. I'd sure like it if the Sox hit better when the bases loaded. If individualized coaching helps more Sox players get big base hits (or even walks) with RISP, that's going to help the team win.

OK, now you have five different consultants for your starting rotation, who are going to stress their philosophy on mechanics and approach, whether it coincides with the pitching coach or teams philosophy. The same goes for your hitters, what are they going to think first when it comes to situational hitting, what their consultant stresses or what will it take to advance the runner?

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 12:56 PM
OK, now you have five different consultants for your starting rotation, who are going to stress their philosophy on mechanics and approach, whether it coincides with the pitching coach or teams philosophy. The same goes for your hitters, what are they going to think first when it comes to situational hitting, what their consultant stresses or what will it take to advance the runner?

If a guy is an established starter or reliever, I don't care what he does (not performance-enhancing drugs, of course) as long as he gets guys out and gives up as few runs as possible. If he can do it with strikeouts, great. If he can do it with a pop up and a double play, great.

That's true for hitters and fielders, too. The proof of whether or not a player is effective is shown in his production. If he fails to produce even if he has his own coach/tutor, then it's obvious that he sucks.

During the game, you follow the manager's orders. If not, go sit on the bench.

Separate question - do you think Baines would be a better hitting coach than Walker? (I don't care about his poker game.)

Daver
09-01-2007, 01:03 PM
If a guy is an established starter or reliever, I don't care what he does (not performance-enhancing drugs, of course) as long as he gets guys out and gives up as few runs as possible. If he can do it with strikeouts, great. If he can do it with a pop up and a double play, great.

That's true for hitters and fielders, too. The proof of whether or not a player is effective is shown in his production. If he fails to produce even if he has his own coach/tutor, then it's obvious that he sucks.

During the game, you follow the manager's orders. If not, go sit on the bench.

So your starter refuses to walk a guy, because his consultants philosophy is no walks, and he gives up a homerun, you want the starter taken out?

Separate question - do you think Baines would be a better hitting coach than Walker? (I don't care about his poker game.)

No.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 01:14 PM
So your starter refuses to walk a guy, because his consultants philosophy is no walks, and he gives up a homerun, you want the starter taken out?

Follow team rules. If the manager says to issue the walk, issue the walk.

I really don't even care anymore. It's not going to happen anyway. I defer to your expertise, and I'm not being disrespectful. If you say it wouldn't work, it almost certainly wouldn't work.

I'd just like to see the Sox have a competent hitting coach who works with his hitters instead of playing cards, and who is flexible enough to maximize each individual player's talent to improve his ability to succeed in any possible game situation.

Daver
09-01-2007, 01:22 PM
I'd just like to see the Sox have a competent hitting coach who works with his hitters instead of playing cards, and who is flexible enough to maximize each individual player's talent to improve his ability to succeed in any possible game situation.

They had one that was pretty damn good at working with young and veteran hitters, could teach fundamental hitting, and helped get a young team to the players in 2000, he was fired as a scapegoat for Jerry Manuel.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 01:27 PM
They had one that was pretty damn good at working with young and veteran hitters, could teach fundamental hitting, and helped get a young team to the players in 2000, he was fired as a scapegoat for Jerry Manuel.

So did Manuel want Von Joshua fired? With Manuel gone, what would prevent his return to the Sox in some kind of capacity?

Why was Hriniak let go?

Daver
09-01-2007, 01:30 PM
So did Manuel want Von Joshua fired? With Manuel gone, what would prevent his return to the Sox in some kind of capacity?

Why was Hriniak let go?


Nothing that I know of.


See post #35 in this thread.

Frater Perdurabo
09-01-2007, 01:34 PM
See post #35 in this thread.

:redface: Guess I missed that. :redface:

Were any reasons given for why the veteran players ignored him? (i.e. Did Hriniak have an annoying personality, poor communication skills, etc.?) It's not like the Sox had a ton of veteran HOF-caliber hitters at that time.

Daver
09-01-2007, 01:37 PM
:redface: Guess I missed that. :redface:

Were any reasons given for why the veteran players ignored him? (i.e. Did Hriniak have an annoying personality, poor communication skills, etc.?) It's not like the Sox had a ton of veteran HOF-caliber hitters at that time.

There are not a whole lot of players that have the plate discipline required to take advantage of Hriniak's philosophy.

UserNameBlank
09-01-2007, 04:32 PM
OK, now you have five different consultants for your starting rotation, who are going to stress their philosophy on mechanics and approach, whether it coincides with the pitching coach or teams philosophy. The same goes for your hitters, what are they going to think first when it comes to situational hitting, what their consultant stresses or what will it take to advance the runner?
Don't agents already do stuff like this enough? Don't pitch if you have a sore toe, don't go the other way if you're a powerful pull hitter in a contract year...

Daver
09-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Don't agents already do stuff like this enough? Don't pitch if you have a sore toe, don't go the other way if you're a powerful pull hitter in a contract year...

You give way to much credit to the influence agents have on baseball players.

Nellie_Fox
09-02-2007, 12:53 AM
If a ballplayer is too obstinate to follow any good advice -- paid for or otherwise -- shouldn't that ballplayer be removed from the roster as soon as possible?Like, oh I don't know, maybe...BA?

CLR01
09-02-2007, 12:57 AM
Like, oh I don't know, maybe...BA?

:rolling:

You mean the "good advice" Walker didn't want to give him because he wanted his natural talent to get him through it? You have any proof that he didn't want to follow advice? Didn't think so.... :rolleyes:

Nellie_Fox
09-02-2007, 01:00 AM
:rolling:

You mean the "good advice" Walker didn't want to give him because he wanted his natural talent to get him through it? You have any proof that he didn't want to follow advice? Didn't think so.... :rolleyes:Any prove?

CLR01
09-02-2007, 01:01 AM
Any prove?

slam....:rolleyes: