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View Full Version : Fields is now our left fielder.


munchman33
08-26-2007, 11:35 AM
Fields is now our left fielder. Originally for today, but the score is reporting that Ozzie said for the rest of the season.

Good news for Joe Crede fans.

Dan Mega
08-26-2007, 11:38 AM
At least he is still getting playing time.

upperdeckusc
08-26-2007, 11:38 AM
is crede coming back this season? that'd be awesome if he could for september to see how he responds. if he plays well it'd build his trade value. if not, see ya

Jerko
08-26-2007, 11:39 AM
So is Cintron the 3b for the rest of the year?

Daver
08-26-2007, 11:41 AM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.

upperdeckusc
08-26-2007, 11:44 AM
So is Cintron the 3b for the rest of the year?

i'd rather see jason bourgeois at 3b for september than cintron

LITTLE NELL
08-26-2007, 11:47 AM
I think Josh, being the athlete that he is, will be a lot better than what we have had in the past; Garr, Kittle, Lee and Pods just to name a few.

Whitesox029
08-26-2007, 11:51 AM
The way I see it...what have we got to lose? Let Cintron play third every day. We basically have a 3 month spring training on our hands here, with a 4.5 month break in the middle of it.

Brian26
08-26-2007, 11:51 AM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.

Play him on the warning track like Caballo.

On the plus side, Fields probably has a better arm than Pods.

Brian26
08-26-2007, 11:52 AM
The way I see it...what have we got to lose?

About 30 more games.

FedEx227
08-26-2007, 11:53 AM
I like it. Obviously, we're not trying to win a pennant here, so let's see if he can do this. If he can, then we have options with Crede.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-26-2007, 11:53 AM
I think this is good news. The Sox have to see if Fields can play left. If he can, it changes the dynamics of the team. He can't possibly be any worse than Pods.

The Immigrant
08-26-2007, 11:58 AM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.

I don't think he will be any worse than Podsednik or Gonzales. He is a great athlete and will adapt quickly.

voodoochile
08-26-2007, 11:59 AM
About 30 more games.

And if the Sox did, why would it matter?

Fields would have to be the worst LF in the history of baseball on all levels to seriously cost the Sox a bunch of games.

Jerko
08-26-2007, 12:02 PM
I realize that only one team has more losses than the Sox, but getting me out to games for the rest of this year will be tough if one of Gonzales or Cintron plays every day. Fields in left doesn't bother me; it's the **** that's gonna be at 3rd that gets my goose. I think I'd rather see Erstad Owens Dye in the OF and leave Fields at 3rd.

Brian26
08-26-2007, 12:05 PM
And if the Sox did, why would it matter?

Fields would have to be the worst LF in the history of baseball on all levels to seriously cost the Sox a bunch of games.

I'm not worried about Fields in LF. I'm worried about having Cintron's bat and glove in the lineup for the rest of the year. :D:

I like the idea of 2008 auditions. I have tickets to 10 or 11 more games, though, and I'd like to see some wins.

FedEx227
08-26-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm glad Ozzie finally grew some balls and hopefully punished Gonzalez for his play yesterday.

How can you stop with the ball in your hands in LF? Are you kidding me?

voodoochile
08-26-2007, 12:09 PM
I'm not worried about Fields in LF. I'm worried about having Cintron's bat and glove in the lineup for the rest of the year. :D:

I like the idea of 2008 auditions. I have tickets to 10 or 11 more games, though, and I'd like to see some wins.

No worries, Sox will be playing the ALC for most of the rest of the year and the early reports of said division being a powerhouse have been blown out of the water...

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 12:12 PM
I like this move, good idea to get Josh's feet wet early in left field so the sox can know if he can handle it considering they're going to need to play Joe to prove he's healthy so he can be traded.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-26-2007, 12:13 PM
I don't want to see Cintron at third. What's the point? He's not part of the future. I'd rather see someone like Bourgeois called up on Sept. 1 and given an opportunity, to see if he can be a backup infielder for next year.

JB98
08-26-2007, 12:14 PM
I realize that only one team has more losses than the Sox, but getting me out to games for the rest of this year will be tough if one of Gonzales or Cintron plays every day. Fields in left doesn't bother me; it's the **** that's gonna be at 3rd that gets my goose. I think I'd rather see Erstad Owens Dye in the OF and leave Fields at 3rd.

It may not be pretty at 3B the rest of the year, but honestly, can it get any uglier than what we've seen in general the last 14 or 15 games?

I don't mind this move at all. Find out now whether Josh can make this adjustment. If he can't, things have to be reevaluated in the offseason. If he can, then we solved a problem in our outfield. Crede gets his position back next year, and Fields is still around and developing as a hitter in case Joe gets hurt again.

FWIW, I certainly have not liked what I've seen from Josh defensively at 3B. This kid has a lot of promise as a hitter, but he's not close to being a big-league 3B defensively. Maybe I'm spoiled by years of watching Ventura and Crede, but the dropoff defensively has been severe since Fields took the position over.

SoxSpeed22
08-26-2007, 12:19 PM
No worries, Sox will be playing the ALC for most of the rest of the year and the early reports of said division being a powerhouse have been blown out of the water...As long as we play spoiler and screw teams out of the playoffs, that's the only thing we have left.

CLR01
08-26-2007, 12:20 PM
I realize that only one team has more losses than the Sox, but getting me out to games for the rest of this year will be tough if one of Gonzales or Cintron plays every day. Fields in left doesn't bother me; it's the **** that's gonna be at 3rd that gets my goose. I think I'd rather see Erstad Owens Dye in the OF and leave Fields at 3rd.

I agree except I replace Ersty with Sweeney.

TDog
08-26-2007, 12:24 PM
I think this is good news. The Sox have to see if Fields can play left. If he can, it changes the dynamics of the team. He can't possibly be any worse than Pods.

Really, he could be worse than Podsednik. I don't know that he will be. I don't know that he has ever played much left field. It is often the position, like first base, that hides the weakest, weak-armed defender. The problem is, a lot of fly balls and line drives are hit to left field. Fields has a better arm than Podsednik, but Podsednik has better speed to chase down his mistakes.

The Sox cold be looking at Fields being a future left fielder and needing to see how he looks there. That probably means the Sox won't be trying to deal Crede in the off-season. and possibly they believe they have a good chance of signing him -- unless they are looking to acquire someone else to play third base.

If the Sox are looking at getting one more year out of Crede and moving Fields back to third base, moving Fields to left is not a great move. But I don't know if there is a position Fields can play well at the major league level. If they are looking to package Fields in an off-season deal and want to stress his versatility, this could be a good move. I don't know what plan this reflects.

I do know that instead of making Fields the everyday leftfielder next year, I would rather see the White Sox sign Hunter and Rowand in the off-season and put together a good defensive outfield.

But I'm not going to attack the Sox plan when I don't know what it is.

jabrch
08-26-2007, 12:26 PM
Well - Nothing (except 30 more meaningless games) left to lose - no reason not to just sit back and see what happens.

Was Fields known to be this much of a question on the defensive side in his time in the minors? Is this something he will eventually grow out of? Could he eventually be average with the glove, if Joe leaves or is traded?

I can't wait until this one is in the rear view mirror.

Daver
08-26-2007, 12:30 PM
Was Fields known to be this much of a question on the defensive side in his time in the minors? Is this something he will eventually grow out of? Could he eventually be average with the glove, if Joe leaves or is traded?



Yes.

He has actually played better defensively at the MLB level than he did in the minors.

DickAllen72
08-26-2007, 12:57 PM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.
Maybe. But it definitely improves the infield defense.

LITTLE NELL
08-26-2007, 01:00 PM
Breaking news: Gonzalez playing 3b today.

DickAllen72
08-26-2007, 01:02 PM
i'd rather see jason bourgeois at 3b for september than cintron
I wish Pablo was ready to play 3B.

oeo
08-26-2007, 01:09 PM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.

No offense, Daver, but you have no idea how it will work out. So Carlos Lee sucks in left...that doesn't mean Fields will. He's a great athlete, let's see how it works first.

thomas35forever
08-26-2007, 01:13 PM
Let's see if his outfield defense is Pods-esque or Ozuna-esque.

EDIT: Ozzie just said he wants to see what Fields can do in left next year. I knew that's why he's making the switch.

It's Dankerific
08-26-2007, 01:14 PM
This is great news. Crede is my favorite current player, if he can play next year, he's earned a _chance_ to stay at 3b in Chicago. If fields can be _adequate_ in left.. I'm getting excited about our offense next year with both of them in the lineup.

MisterB
08-26-2007, 01:36 PM
Upside: If Crede comes back healthy next year, then Fields has gotten his feet wet playing another position.

Downside: If Crede isn't healthy next year, then Fields' defense will still be lacking because he didn't get more time at 3B.

Unfortunately, I think the Sox would be foolish to assume that Crede will be back and healthy next year. Same goes for Pods, Erstad and (to some degree, Thome).

Bucky F. Dent
08-26-2007, 01:52 PM
Take the next thirty games to see if we can solve one of our offseason problems.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-26-2007, 01:58 PM
If Pods could stay healthy out there maybe this is a tougher call. But he can't, so why not?

Tragg
08-26-2007, 03:17 PM
I think it's odd that he doesn't play LF once, and then Ozzie puts him there and says its permanent. Does Ozzie have a real plan for developing these players? We've been out of the race for 2 months, so that clearly should have been a top priority.
Hopefully, Ozzie and his coaching staff turn at least ONE of these young hitters into a legitimate major leaguer.
I'd like to see Sweeney join the party - why not?

Who do they have in mind for 3B for next year and beyond. Can you count on Crede?

KyWhiSoxFan
08-26-2007, 03:25 PM
Really, he could be worse than Podsednik. I don't know that he will be. I don't know that he has ever played much left field. It is often the position, like first base, that hides the weakest, weak-armed defender. The problem is, a lot of fly balls and line drives are hit to left field. Fields has a better arm than Podsednik, but Podsednik has better speed to chase down his mistakes.

The Sox cold be looking at Fields being a future left fielder and needing to see how he looks there. That probably means the Sox won't be trying to deal Crede in the off-season. and possibly they believe they have a good chance of signing him -- unless they are looking to acquire someone else to play third base.

If the Sox are looking at getting one more year out of Crede and moving Fields back to third base, moving Fields to left is not a great move. But I don't know if there is a position Fields can play well at the major league level. If they are looking to package Fields in an off-season deal and want to stress his versatility, this could be a good move. I don't know what plan this reflects.

I do know that instead of making Fields the everyday leftfielder next year, I would rather see the White Sox sign Hunter and Rowand in the off-season and put together a good defensive outfield.

But I'm not going to attack the Sox plan when I don't know what it is.

I sure hope that is not the case. Why would they trade one of the few young players they have with some upside? So they can keep old guys--Dye, Konerko, Thome, Erstad, etc.--with no upside and just aging before our eyes? If KW trades Fields I will be hopping mad (Unless, we got a No. 1 or No. 2 starter out of it; short of that, no.)

wassagstdu
08-26-2007, 04:11 PM
I'm glad Ozzie finally grew some balls and hopefully punished Gonzalez for his play yesterday.

How can you stop with the ball in your hands in LF? Are you kidding me?
That was all on Fields. The runner stopped at third and would have been out by 10 ft if Fields had had a clue.

Noneck
08-26-2007, 04:12 PM
I sure hope that is not the case. Why would they trade one of the few young players they have with some upside? So they can keep old guys--Dye, Konerko, Thome, Erstad, etc.--with no upside and just aging before our eyes? If KW trades Fields I will be hopping mad (Unless, we got a No. 1 or No. 2 starter out of it; short of that, no.)

Don't worry, he's cheap for at least 4 more years so he's not going anywhere.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:14 PM
I think it's odd that he doesn't play LF once, and then Ozzie puts him there and says its permanent. Does Ozzie have a real plan for developing these players? We've been out of the race for 2 months, so that clearly should have been a top priority.
Hopefully, Ozzie and his coaching staff turn at least ONE of these young hitters into a legitimate major leaguer.
I'd like to see Sweeney join the party - why not?

Who do they have in mind for 3B for next year and beyond. Can you count on Crede?

the 3B for next year and beyond is Fields. Fields needs to get his feet wet in left field because the WS would like to have his bat in the lineup and the only way to do that when Crede gets back is to put him in left field for the time it takes for Crede to show that he is healthy and can hit then the Sox can trade Crede and move Fields back to 3rd. I think they played Fields at 3rd for the extended time to show he can play major league third base, he's proven he can now Ozzie wants to get his feet wet in left so he's ready to play it next year.

FedEx227
08-26-2007, 04:15 PM
That was all on Fields. The runner stopped at third and would have been out by 10 ft if Fields had had a clue.

I don't think so, honestly. That's for the LFer to find a way to get rid of it. He was in shallow left field looking towards home plate. If you don't have enough arm to go from shallow left to home on at least one bounce then you shouldn't be out in left field. Also, if you're going to hit a cutoff man whos like 5 feet away from you, at least throw it with some damn power. He tossed it to Fields which put Fields in a bad position

Daver
08-26-2007, 04:15 PM
One game, one error that led to unearned runs.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:16 PM
That was all on Fields. The runner stopped at third and would have been out by 10 ft if Fields had had a clue.

I would have to agree. It looked as if Fields had a 'brain cramp', you could see AJ yelling at Josh and then his frustration when Josh didn't throw the ball. Andy did give the opening to Lowell by just bobbling the ball and just tossing it to Josh.

FedEx227
08-26-2007, 04:16 PM
One game, one error that led to unearned runs.

Yeah, not a very good first day to say the least.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:17 PM
One game, one error that led to unearned runs.

I'll let it go considering it was his first game in left and the unearned runs he gave up didn't really matter in that point. When he has an error in a tie or close ball game then I'll be worried.

DickAllen72
08-26-2007, 04:19 PM
I'll let it go considering it was his first game in left and the unearned runs he gave up didn't really matter in that point. When he has an error in a tie or close ball game then I'll be worried.
The troubling thing about it was he looked like he didn't have a clue on that very routine play.

Daver
08-26-2007, 04:21 PM
The troubling thing about it was he looked like he didn't have a clue on that very routine play.

He didn't have a clue when they tried it in the minors either.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:22 PM
The troubling thing about it was he looked like he didn't have a clue on that very routine play.

Yeah I agree, once again though it was his first game. Hopefully by spring training we can have Aaron Rowand/Torii Hunter giving him some pointers on the outfield.

voodoochile
08-26-2007, 04:23 PM
The troubling thing about it was he looked like he didn't have a clue on that very routine play.

Heck on the very first out of the game, he initially took a step back before coming on only to watch Uribe field a popup midway between the IF and where Fields had initially been standing.

Didn't see the error as I had a headache and had to lie down this afternoon, but he's obviously got a long way to go.

kitekrazy
08-26-2007, 04:23 PM
Maybe I'm spoiled by years of watching Ventura and Crede, but the dropoff defensively has been severe since Fields took the position over.

I think you got a point there. It's hard to top a guy like Crede.

Tragg
08-26-2007, 04:24 PM
the 3B for next year and beyond is Fields. Fields needs to get his feet wet in left field because the WS would like to have his bat in the lineup and the only way to do that when Crede gets back is to put him in left field for the time it takes for Crede to show that he is healthy and can hit then the Sox can trade Crede and move Fields back to 3rd. I think they played Fields at 3rd for the extended time to show he can play major league third base, he's proven he can now Ozzie wants to get his feet wet in left so he's ready to play it next year.
So, when is Crede going to come back?

DickAllen72
08-26-2007, 04:24 PM
He didn't have a clue when they tried it in the minors either.
Wow. I guess his future is either at 1B or DH. :(:

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:26 PM
So, when is Crede going to come back?

Should be back by Spring Training hopefully.

JermaineDye05
08-26-2007, 04:27 PM
Wow. I guess his future is either at 1B or DH. :(:

Once again, it's 3rd. Crede is gone, Josh is the future. Josh may never win a gold glove, but he sure will drive in a hell of a lot of runs.

soltrain21
08-26-2007, 04:29 PM
Let Josh play third everyday. Our handling of rookies is stupid. We can't rely on Crede.

SoxandtheCityTee
08-26-2007, 04:29 PM
If Pods could stay healthy out there maybe this is a tougher call. But he can't, so why not?

Oh, I see.

FedEx227
08-26-2007, 04:43 PM
Once again, it's 3rd. Crede is gone, Josh is the future. Josh may never win a gold glove, but he sure will drive in a hell of a lot of runs.

Going to have to agree. I'm all for trying Josh out in LF, but from what I've seen it might not be pretty. Honestly, I'd be fine with locking Josh down at 3B, telling Crede to take a hike, then finding replacements in either LF/CF (Owens can take whichever we don't fill), SS and RP.

Tragg
08-26-2007, 04:44 PM
Once again, it's 3rd. Crede is gone, Josh is the future. Josh may never win a gold glove, but he sure will drive in a hell of a lot of runs.
But we're playing him in the outfield now, so we can put him there next year and showcase Crede for a trade? Damage or retard Fields so that we can showcase Crede whenever he comes back? And for what end? It's not like we reaped much when we showcased other players in their contract year.

JB98
08-26-2007, 04:49 PM
But we're playing him in the outfield now, so we can put him there next year and showcase Crede for a trade? Damage or retard Fields so that we can showcase Crede whenever he comes back? And for what end? It's not like we reaped much when we showcased other players in their contract year.

I don't think Fields is going to be damaged by this move. There's only 32 games left. If he does terrible out there, they'll just have to reevaluate their plans during the offseason.

Frater Perdurabo
08-26-2007, 04:53 PM
I don't have a problem trying him in left field. If he's as good an athlete as he's said to be, then he ought to be able to learn to play left field at an acceptable level.

I really am not interested in seeing Cintron at third, though. As long as the season is a total loss, and the idea is to see how youngsters perform, I'd rather see the Sox promote and play Micah Schnurstein.

CLR01
08-26-2007, 04:54 PM
One game, one error that led to unearned runs.

We have a third baseman in left and a SS at third. This is White Sox baseball.

Tragg
08-26-2007, 04:54 PM
I don't think Fields is going to be damaged by this move. There's only 32 games left. If he does terrible out there, they'll just have to reevaluate their plans during the offseason.
Probably right; but he still needs a lot of work at 3B and 32 games are a lot of opportunity to learn.
If the post above is right, and we're putting him there now, so he can play there to showcase crede - that is just looney-tunes.
Meanwhile, the highest ceiling young OF the Sox have, the OF who's already proven he can hit AAA pitching, remains in AAA. Pods is hurt, so there is an obvious opening.
Where is Sweeney????

JB98
08-26-2007, 04:59 PM
Probably right; but he still needs a lot of work at 3B and 32 games are a lot of opportunity to learn.
If the post above is right, and we're putting him there now, so he can play there to showcase crede - that is just looney-tunes.

I don't think they are doing this to showcase Crede. You only bring Crede back if you believe he is an essential piece to a championship run in 2008. If you don't think you can get back into contention next year, cut ties with Crede, park Fields at third and get ready for 2010.

I think the Sox would like Fields to play winter ball and continue to get ABs and develop his skills. The next 32 games will decide whether he's a 3B or LF this winter. If he butchers up LF, he's still a 3B. Then KW has to find a way to get Fields ABs with the 2008 Sox. If that means letting Crede go, or making a trade somewhere else to free a spot for Fields, then so be it. Sending Fields back to Charlotte for 2008 would be foolish.

JB98
08-26-2007, 05:03 PM
Where is Sweeney????

If Fields is in LF, Owens is in CF and Dye is in RF, where are you going to put Sweeney?

To tell you the truth, Ryan hasn't had a great year. He's had an injury, and his numbers at Charlotte aren't overly impressive. He hasn't made enough of an impression to be part of the 2008 plans, and I don't think there's anything he could do the next month to change my mind. I think he needs another year in the minors. He's only 22, I believe, so it isn't like this is now or never for him.

I really like the kid. I think eventually he'll help us, but right now, I'm not sure he's the answer to our problems. He needs more polish, especially at the plate.

Daver
08-26-2007, 05:09 PM
I don't think they are doing this to showcase Crede. You only bring Crede back if you believe he is an essential piece to a championship run in 2008.


Yeah, re-signing a young gold glove caliber third baseman is stupid if you can't win in 2008.

JB98
08-26-2007, 05:15 PM
Yeah, re-signing a young gold glove caliber third baseman is stupid if you can't win in 2008.

Are the Sox going to be able to sign him to a long-term deal? I would love to have Crede as our 3B for the next 10 years. I've always been a fan. But his health is anybody's guess, and Boras will keep it a secret from the Sox team doctors and KW.

Realistically, we can probably only keep Joe for one more year because of Boras. So, if we don't think next year can be the year, and we're going to lose Joe anyway, might as well turn the position over to Fields permanently.

Daver
08-26-2007, 05:23 PM
Are the Sox going to be able to sign him to a long-term deal? I would love to have Crede as our 3B for the next 10 years. I've always been a fan. But his health is anybody's guess, and Boras will keep it a secret from the Sox team doctors and KW.

Realistically, we can probably only keep Joe for one more year because of Boras. So, if we don't think next year can be the year, and we're going to lose Joe anyway, might as well turn the position over to Fields permanently.

Perhaps you have missed the statements made by Joe himself, that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen.

Tragg
08-26-2007, 05:26 PM
Perhaps you have missed the statements made by Joe himself, that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen.
What would you do with Fields, Daver? Keep him at 3rd and then, if there's a logjam, deal with it then? Always a market for a quality 3B - and lord knows this team has plenty of other needs.

Domeshot17
08-26-2007, 10:07 PM
Perhaps you have missed the statements made by Joe himself, that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen.

Words and Actions are 2 things. We already seeing his Boras effect by Boras keeping his rehab under wraps. Im not saying Crede is as good as gone, but his situation has changed ALOT since he made those statements over a year ago. He has seen the flare of a championship team wear off, and us suck for a year. He has seen our future at 3b pounding he ball even as he struggles to grow defensively. But here is the biggest factor: Joe Crede probably will only get 1 long term contract. He may be back in 08 to show he can still play, but with this surgery, I dont think he will play late into his 30s. This is a surgery that will probably catch up to him as he gets older, and a surgery that is very hard to get full range and motion back. If the Sox offer him a 3 year deal for 30-25 million in FA, and a team like the phillies who need a 3b bad come back at a 5 year 50 million dollar deal the Sox won't match and Crede won't take the shorter deal. This may be it for him, he knows it, get it while you can. I love Joe Crede, but we have to be realistic, the odds of him here in 2008 are about 75%, beyond that is 50/50 AT BEST.

JB98
08-26-2007, 10:20 PM
Perhaps you have missed the statements made by Joe himself, that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen.

No, I didn't miss those statements. I just take them with a grain of salt. What else is an athlete going to say when asked those questions?

voodoochile
08-26-2007, 10:26 PM
No, I didn't miss those statements. I just take them with a grain of salt. What else is an athlete going to say when asked those questions?

Just want to do my part to help the team win. Play 'em one game at a time and gawd willing we'll be there in October. I love this city. I love these fans. I hope to remain a part of the (insert city and team name here) organization forever and I won't let a little thing like SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS stand in the way of it happening. I'm a (insert team name here) through and through and I wouldn't have it any other way.

JB98
08-26-2007, 10:33 PM
Just want to do my part to help the team win. Play 'em one game at a time and gawd willing we'll be there in October. I love this city. I love these fans. I hope to remain a part of the (insert city and team name here) organization forever and I won't let a little thing like SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS stand in the way of it happening. I'm a (insert team name here) through and through and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Precisely. :D:

russ99
08-26-2007, 10:42 PM
Words and Actions are 2 things. We already seeing his Boras effect by Boras keeping his rehab under wraps. Im not saying Crede is as good as gone, but his situation has changed ALOT since he made those statements over a year ago. He has seen the flare of a championship team wear off, and us suck for a year. He has seen our future at 3b pounding he ball even as he struggles to grow defensively. But here is the biggest factor: Joe Crede probably will only get 1 long term contract. He may be back in 08 to show he can still play, but with this surgery, I dont think he will play late into his 30s. This is a surgery that will probably catch up to him as he gets older, and a surgery that is very hard to get full range and motion back. If the Sox offer him a 3 year deal for 30-25 million in FA, and a team like the phillies who need a 3b bad come back at a 5 year 50 million dollar deal the Sox won't match and Crede won't take the shorter deal. This may be it for him, he knows it, get it while you can. I love Joe Crede, but we have to be realistic, the odds of him here in 2008 are about 75%, beyond that is 50/50 AT BEST.

This becomes a problem only if (a big if) that Crede is healthy and can play full-time on Opening Day 2008. Both of which I seriously doubt.

This is truly a boneheaded move by Ozzie. Play the kid at 3B, how is he going to get better without game experience?? Now the kid will have no confidence at both 3B and LF, plus us paying customers have to deal with Cintron or Gonzalez playing every day.

Sept 1 is a few days away, and there's a bunch of guys in the minors who can play LF. Call up some kids, Oz, you obviously need some extra healthy players on the roster...

Hopefully today's debacle opened Ozzie and Kenny's eyes to this bad idea, and I certainly hope this means Kenny's not going to go cheap on rebuilding the outfield for 2008.

balke
08-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Fields has looked horrible at 3B compared to Crede. I don't think its a coincidence Buehrle's big inning was a series of hits through the left side of the infield yesterday. And it was an embarassment yesterday that Fields cut the ball off, had a play at home against Lowell, and he just held the ball without trying to make a play. This team needs someone at 3B that can play good D. The pitching will suffer without.

upperdeckusc
08-26-2007, 10:50 PM
I would have to agree. It looked as if Fields had a 'brain cramp', you could see AJ yelling at Josh and then his frustration when Josh didn't throw the ball. Andy did give the opening to Lowell by just bobbling the ball and just tossing it to Josh.

when josh peeked at lowell, he was pulling up at 3rd. he had no idea he was going to pull the deek on him and take off for home. when josh cut it off, he didnt know lowell was going home. i think aj was just throwing a tantrum cuz he thought fields knew he was running. it was clear no1 was talking out there that he was going home, cuz josh not only cut it off, he didnt even bother turning around and looking at home. he thought the play was dead. thats not on josh. thats on uribe and aj for not screaming their brains off to go home with it. i'd rather just put it all on andy for not getting rid of the ball right when he gets it. who does he think he is, vlad? im gonna hold onto the ball to make you go home so i can gun you down. please. andy does not deserve to be anywhere near US Cellular unless his friends on the team send him free tickets to watch the game.
now hopefully he can be somewhat decent in LF.........maybe

russ99
08-26-2007, 10:55 PM
Fields has looked horrible at 3B compared to Crede. I don't think its a coincidence Buehrle's big inning was a series of hits through the left side of the infield yesterday. And it was an embarassment yesterday that Fields cut the ball off, had a play at home against Lowell, and he just held the ball without trying to make a play. This team needs someone at 3B that can play good D. The pitching will suffer without.

Who really cares about winning a lot of games the rest of the year at this point?? I think it's a lot more important that Josh grows as a fielder at 3B and can be the Sox' solid 3B-man for the next 10 years.

He should play winter ball to work on his defense thus year, and the Sox should hire someone to work with him in the offseason. I'm not expecting him to be as good as Crede in the field, but also, if he had a SS who didn't take plays off all the time, he'd do a lot better.

balke
08-26-2007, 10:55 PM
Josh has made a lot of rookie mistakes on both sides of the ball, and I think I trust the organization with whatever the plan is. They already had Josh testing out LF in the minors, so I think they were already thinking he's not going to develop his glove much further. Too many brain cramps. There's little things that go unnoticed, like him hesitating, having poor position, and having his first jump be in the opposite direction the ball has been hit. I think the D is okay if the Sox HAVE to play him there, but Crede's obviously the better option by far if he's even 80 percent.

The Dude
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.

You really think he is going to be worse than Pods? Pods has no arm, takes bad routes, and makes bad decisions. Plus he is much better at the plate even as a rookie with much more to improve on.

balke
08-26-2007, 11:00 PM
Who really cares about winning a lot of games the rest of the year at this point?? I think it's a lot more important that Josh grows as a fielder at 3B and can be the Sox' solid 3B-man for the next 10 years.

He should play winter ball to work on his defense thus year, and the Sox should hire someone to work with him in the offseason. I'm not expecting him to be as good as Crede in the field, but also, if he had a SS who didn't take plays off all the time, he'd do a lot better.

Josh is working on defense for 08' at this point. LF defense, where it looks like he'll be playing. Edit: too harsh. Josh has been subpar at D so far, and I don't see him improving that much to overtake Crede's spot. I think Pods' injuries have lost him his job, Josh is the best option in LF at this point.

CLR01
08-26-2007, 11:04 PM
They already had Josh testing out LF in the minors, so I think they were already thinking he's not going to develop his glove much further.


When was this? During batting practice?

balke
08-26-2007, 11:10 PM
When was this? During batting practice?

Maybe I'm wrong, if he wasn't tested there then they've just been talking about it forever. Everyone's known Josh was going to Left Field, there's been rumors about it all season. He's even listed as a 3B/LFer.

Domeshot17
08-26-2007, 11:13 PM
The sad thing is this probably means we are looking at Owens in CF next year leading off. Atleast when Pods is healthy hes a good lead off htiter. Owens is hitting .241 with a .290 obp. He steals bases well, but he is never on base. He hasn't been good in the second half either. Hopefully we have other options because Owens/Erstad in CF leading off isnt going to win ball games.

CLR01
08-26-2007, 11:22 PM
Maybe I'm wrong, if he wasn't tested there then they've just been talking about it forever. Everyone's known Josh was going to Left Field, there's been rumors about it all season. He's even listed as a 3B/LFer.

From what I can tell he has a whole inning of experience in LF during his minor league career.

balke
08-26-2007, 11:25 PM
The sad thing is this probably means we are looking at Owens in CF next year leading off. Atleast when Pods is healthy hes a good lead off htiter. Owens is hitting .241 with a .290 obp. He steals bases well, but he is never on base. He hasn't been good in the second half either. Hopefully we have other options because Owens/Erstad in CF leading off isnt going to win ball games.

If you believe in miracles and common sense, I think there'll be a new CFer in 08' or a leadoff SS. Could mean the loss of a good pitcher or two though. I'm pretty sure Kenny realizes its do or die next season, and they aren't talking about dismantling at all. I'm a believer that the Sox spend way too much money this offseason for one last hurrah. Can't wait to see what happens. Although the rumors will kill me. I haven't heard anyone from the organization appoint Jerry Owens next year's starting CFer yet.

balke
08-26-2007, 11:34 PM
From what I can tell he has a whole inning of experience in LF during his minor league career.

Good enough for me :wink:

I've heard several grumblings about moving Fields to LF from announcers this season. I think better D at 3rd is needed at this point. Sox might be ready to stick with Crede, or test out Gonzalez and Cintron at 3B. I don't really care at this point, I don't think Fields is winning any Gold Gloves over there right now. If the organizaiton doesn't think he's going to be the answer there, might as well get him used to LF. Maybe its nor permanant at all though, perhaps they just wanna see who can/can't utility next season.

White Sox | Fields to remain at third for rest of the season
Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:57:46 -0700

Scott Merkin, of MLB.com, reports Chicago White Sox 3B Josh Fields will not be given any starts in left field as the team wants him to remain at third base for the rest of the season. With the return of 3B Joe Crede (back) from injury in 2008, some in the organization felt the team might try out Fields in left field in order to keep both in the starting lineup

thomas35forever
08-26-2007, 11:46 PM
From what I can tell he has a whole inning of experience in LF during his minor league career.
Maybe, I couldn't really tell. However, it's been said he played left a lot during winter ball. He could've gotten more experience there.

WhiteSox5187
08-26-2007, 11:59 PM
If you believe in miracles and common sense, I think there'll be a new CFer in 08' or a leadoff SS. Could mean the loss of a good pitcher or two though. I'm pretty sure Kenny realizes its do or die next season, and they aren't talking about dismantling at all. I'm a believer that the Sox spend way too much money this offseason for one last hurrah. Can't wait to see what happens. Although the rumors will kill me. I haven't heard anyone from the organization appoint Jerry Owens next year's starting CFer yet.
I agree, I don't think Owens is plan A right now...he's more like, plan Q...moving Fields to left makes sense because we have to make room for Crede next year if only to move him....I also think we're returning to that pre-2005 form where we have a bunch of sluggers but little if any team speed.

GlassSox
08-27-2007, 12:01 AM
One game, one error that led to unearned runs.

You said it, that was a no brainer.

TDog
08-27-2007, 12:11 AM
I sure hope that is not the case. Why would they trade one of the few young players they have with some upside? So they can keep old guys--Dye, Konerko, Thome, Erstad, etc.--with no upside and just aging before our eyes? If KW trades Fields I will be hopping mad (Unless, we got a No. 1 or No. 2 starter out of it; short of that, no.)

I didn't mean to imply I even believe Fields is on the trade block. But if the Sox are going to pick up a solid starter, they aren't going to do it through free agency because they aren't going to go more than three years on a pitching contract. Fields looks like he can't hit, although defense appears to be a challenge. Still, a rookie is just a prospect who has moved farther along in the system.

People would have been more upset after the 2005 season if the Sox had sent off Anderson instead of Rowand in the Thome trade. I don't know that the Phillies would have taken Anderson instead of Rowand, but it's too bad they didn't insist on it. The Sox have traded a lot of prospects, and what they've picked up in return have helped them more than their prospects have.

The Sox will be active in the free agent market and will be dealing with other teams this off-season. I don't expect Fields to be traded, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were.

WhiteSox5187
08-27-2007, 12:23 AM
I didn't mean to imply I even believe Fields is on the trade block. But if the Sox are going to pick up a solid starter, they aren't going to do it through free agency because they aren't going to go more than three years on a pitching contract. Fields looks like he can't hit, although defense appears to be a challenge. Still, a rookie is just a prospect who has moved farther along in the system.

People would have been more upset after the 2005 season if the Sox had sent off Anderson instead of Rowand in the Thome trade. I don't know that the Phillies would have taken Anderson instead of Rowand, but it's too bad they didn't insist on it. The Sox have traded a lot of prospects, and what they've picked up in return have helped them more than their prospects have.

The Sox will be active in the free agent market and will be dealing with other teams this off-season. I don't expect Fields to be traded, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were.
Fields is one of the few Sox who I think can get a bit in a trade.

StillMissOzzie
08-27-2007, 01:23 AM
This makes outfield defense go from bad to brutal.
Could it be any worse than Andy Gonzalez out there?

I don't think he will be any worse than Podsednik or Gonzales. He is a great athlete and will adapt quickly.
Pods, I dunno, but he can't stay on the field anyhow, so who cares? I've seen enough of Andy Gonzalez in LF, though.

I'm glad Ozzie finally grew some balls and hopefully punished Gonzalez for his play yesterday.

How can you stop with the ball in your hands in LF? Are you kidding me?
QFT

If Pods could stay healthy out there maybe this is a tougher call. But he can't, so why not?
QFT, again.

Perhaps you have missed the statements made by Joe himself, that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen.
Joe is still arb-eligible for 2008, right? So it looks like any steps taken would involve dismissing one Mr. Bora$.

No, I didn't miss those statements. I just take them with a grain of salt. What else is an athlete going to say when asked those questions?
QFT the usual pablum. Love to see Crede follow Buehrle's lead.

Just want to do my part to help the team win. Play 'em one game at a time and gawd willing we'll be there in October. I love this city. I love these fans. I hope to remain a part of the (insert city and team name here) organization forever and I won't let a little thing like SEVERAL MILLION DOLLARS stand in the way of it happening. I'm a (insert team name here) through and through and I wouldn't have it any other way.
You forgot..."It's a simple game: throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball. I just want to help the team to win any way I can."

Maybe...just maybe, putting Fields in LF is a signal that the Sox intend to get Crede back for 2008.

SMO
:gulp:

October26
08-27-2007, 08:45 AM
I read this entire thread and Fields in left makes no sense to me. I remember when we put Fisk in left field and that was a catastrophe. What is the point of this exercise in futility? Why not try him at another infield position like shortstop or second? Because he doesn't have the arm strength? Well, right now he doesn't know what he's doing in the left field. I feel bad for the kid. :angry:

The 2007 White Sox - they drove me to drink.

balke
08-27-2007, 08:47 AM
I read this entire thread and Fields in left makes no sense to me. I remember when we put Fisk in left field and that was a catastrophe. What is the point of this exercise in futility? Why not try him at another infield position like shortstop or second? Because he doesn't have the arm strenghth? Well, right now he doesn't know what he's doing in the left field. I feel bad for the kid. :angry:

How does he not know what he's doing out there, and why do you feel bad for him? He may want to play LF for all we know.

October26
08-27-2007, 08:53 AM
How does he not know what he's doing out there, and why do you feel bad for him? He may want to play LF for all we know.
Perhaps Fields does want to play LF. I don't know. I just thought it might have been wise to have him get a little practice first, like in winter ball or something. Seems to me like Kenny and Ozzie are grasping at straws right now, just experimenting for the sake of experimentation. I feel bad for Fields because he has to learn a new position at the end of August during what is already a miserable season. Fields offensive numbers look good and I just hate to mess with that.

The 2007 White Sox - they drove me to drink

nccwsfan
08-27-2007, 08:54 AM
Maybe...just maybe, putting Fields in LF is a signal that the Sox intend to get Crede back for 2008.

That's how I read it. A healthy Crede should be starting at 3B over Fields anyway, but it's important to keep Fields (and his bat) in the lineup on an everyday basis. Give him some experience/training now, get some more time in at ST, and have him be the opening day LF. If Crede gets hurt or gets traded, simply put him back at 3B- there is no harm in giving this a try.

The key for this offseason is getting a quality CF to play alongside Fields...

Chez
08-27-2007, 09:10 AM
I think you can (and have been made on this thread) make an argument either way for Fields playing the rest of the season at 3B or in LF. He's probably easier to hide in left. The saddest upshot of this issue is that with Fields in left for the balance of the year, the Sox have no alteratives at 3B (even after the September call-ups) better than Andy Gonzalez and Alex Cintron -- both dogs.

esbrechtel
08-27-2007, 10:54 AM
With Fields at LF, and Dye in RF does Jerry Owens play CF or do the Sox go after a FA? If they go for a FA to play in CF does he have to lead off? OR do the Sox go for a SS in Free Agency? I havent personally looked at FA in the infield but I thought there were more OF options....this is really turning into a huge mess....

russ99
08-27-2007, 01:40 PM
With Fields at LF, and Dye in RF does Jerry Owens play CF or do the Sox go after a FA? If they go for a FA to play in CF does he have to lead off? OR do the Sox go for a SS in Free Agency? I havent personally looked at FA in the infield but I thought there were more OF options....this is really turning into a huge mess....

I'm really hoping the Sox get 2 new outfielders this offseason. I don't want Kenny cheaping out on us this offseason like with the bullpen this season...

As for Crede's comments over a year ago (that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen) - how come those measures didn't include taking the club's advice to have something done with his condition last offseason, and the current games being played by his agent keeping rehab details secret from the Sox???

Sure doesn't sound like it to me. It's the typical Boras client hypocracies, talk all about how you'll do everything for the team, until the big payday comes around...

I'm personally offended the Sox would make such a ridiculous move (Fields to LF) to accomodate an injured player hiding behind his agent.

UserNameBlank
08-27-2007, 01:51 PM
Perhaps Fields does want to play LF. I don't know. I just thought it might have been wise to have him get a little practice first, like in winter ball or something. Seems to me like Kenny and Ozzie are grasping at straws right now, just experimenting for the sake of experimentation. I feel bad for Fields because he has to learn a new position at the end of August during what is already a miserable season. Fields offensive numbers look good and I just hate to mess with that.

The 2007 White Sox - they drove me to drink
Fields did get practice in winterball and he said it took him until the AS break to get comfortable with 3rd again. After watching his play yesterday I'm even more convinced that we need to stop ****ing around and stick him at 3rd for the next five plus years.

Ditto with Owens BTW. Why is he, not Sweeney, in CF? Jerry has no arm. Sweeney should be up playing center.

I agree with you on grasping at straws. You have one player best suited for 3B yet he's playing LF. Another best suited for LF yet he's playing CF. Then you have another player who should be up who isn't. And then we have like half our 40-man in the bullpen. Why? One LR is all we need. Let Floyd pitch all the extra innings, or bring back Haeger again just for the hell if it. It's not like we need to win more games this year; the more we lose the higher we draft next year.

UserNameBlank
08-27-2007, 01:56 PM
I'm really hoping the Sox get 2 new outfielders this offseason. I don't want Kenny cheaping out on us this offseason like with the bullpen this season...

As for Crede's comments over a year ago (that his first choice is to remain a member of the White Sox, and will take measures to make it happen) - how come those measures didn't include taking the club's advice to have something done with his condition last offseason, and the current games being played by his agent keeping rehab details secret from the Sox???

Sure doesn't sound like it to me. It's the typical Boras client hypocracies, talk all about how you'll do everything for the team, until the big payday comes around...

I'm personally offended the Sox would make such a ridiculous move (Fields to LF) to accomodate an injured player hiding behind his agent.
Totally agree with you on Crede. He did some great things for us, but Joe isn't going to sign a lowball extension prior to '08 and the Sox aren't going to give a bunch of money to Joe prior to '08. It seems that even if something could get done and Joe did switch agents, contract talks wouldn't begin until at least around midseason if at all. Therefore it appears that Joe will definitely hit FA and will use the Sox '08 season as an extended rehab assignment. If we didn't have Josh Fields looking like such a great prospect I'd be cool with it, but there is no need to **** with Josh's development and take one year of major league 3B experience away from him just so Crede can build up some value.

esbrechtel
08-27-2007, 01:59 PM
I thought herm said that he would be fine without surgery and gave him an alternative workout plan....I donno about you but I would want to avoid surgery ESPECIALLY back surgery...

voodoochile
08-27-2007, 02:00 PM
Totally agree with you on Crede. He did some great things for us, but Joe isn't going to sign a lowball extension prior to '08 and the Sox aren't going to give a bunch of money to Joe prior to '08. It seems that even if something could get done and Joe did switch agents, contract talks wouldn't begin until at least around midseason if at all. Therefore it appears that Joe will definitely hit FA and will use the Sox '08 season as an extended rehab assignment. If we didn't have Josh Fields looking like such a great prospect I'd be cool with it, but there is no need to **** with Josh's development and take one year of major league 3B experience away from him just so Crede can build up some value.

Yes, but the current move also tells Joe, "we want you back. We want you to play for the Sox as long as you are capable of doing so. We aren't going to give away your position until you decide to leave."

It probably won't make any difference long term, but it never hurts to try and schmooze your players and stroke their egos. In effect the Sox are saying, "3B is yours for the asking, Joe." Nothing wrong with that either.

UserNameBlank
08-27-2007, 02:15 PM
Yes, but the current move also tells Joe, "we want you back. We want you to play for the Sox as long as you are capable of doing so. We aren't going to give away your position until you decide to leave."

It probably won't make any difference long term, but it never hurts to try and schmooze your players and stroke their egos. In effect the Sox are saying, "3B is yours for the asking, Joe." Nothing wrong with that either.
I see what you're saying but IMO it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Sox unless four big things happen all at once next year:
1. Joe switches agents, dumping Borass;
2. Joe puts up second half '05-06 numbers;
3. Joe's back remains healthy all year;
4. Joe signs a below-market extension.

If Joe has a great year and keeps Borass he is going to hit FA, and if that happens, would the Sox be willing to pay him $11mil or more per year? Would Borass want more than that? Would he want 4-5 years? And if Joe stays healthy and has a bad year, or a typical pre-2005 year, would the Sox want to pay $5-6mil or more for the difference in defense at 3B between Fields and Crede?

Fields IMO is going to be very, very good. I really think he's going to evolve into a franchise player over the course of the next year or two. His defense will improve and a bat like his doesn't come around very often, so if you can stick his bat at a more defensive position in 3B why not do that? Why use a guy capable of adaquately playing 3B in LF when you can use that position for an offensive player incapable of playing a tougher position?

I just don't see this working, and really it seems like Josh is the one of very few good things to come from this disaster of a season. I think the Sox need to look at Josh as more of a future cornerstone and less of a man without a position.

slavko
08-27-2007, 02:38 PM
This is truly a boneheaded move by Ozzie. Play the kid at 3B, how is he going to get better without game experience?? Now the kid will have no confidence at both 3B and LF, plus us paying customers have to deal with Cintron or Gonzalez playing every day.



If this is an Ozzie move rather than a Kenny move, then I am a ring-tailed baboon. Forgive me if someone else had the same thought, I didn't scour the thread.

SBSoxFan
08-27-2007, 03:11 PM
If this is an Ozzie move rather than a Kenny move, then I am a ring-tailed baboon. Forgive me if someone else had the same thought, I didn't scour the thread.

Why would anyone think you are a ring-tailed baboon? :redneck

I agree. It's likely even more than just Kenny and Ozzie made this decision, so laying all this on Ozzie is pointless.

SoxxoS
08-27-2007, 03:12 PM
Do any people who have seen Josh last year want to comment on his speed differential between the two years? I think he had 22-25 stolen bases last year, and now his speed is being talked of as a liability. Is it b/c of his nagging hamstring injury? Can we assume we will see a faster Josh Fields in 2008?

If not, between Konerko, Crede, Thome, and Fields we are really going to be lacking that speed that Ozzie's been talking about.

And the two positions that are traditionally speed based - SS and 2B - Are currently filled by guys that aren't that fast in Richar and fatUribe.

Point is we need a major roster overhaul if we want to get more speed based - B/c a Fields/Owens/Sweeney OF is BAD and SLOW...and an IF of Crede/Uribe/Richar and Konerko is average and slow.

voodoochile
08-27-2007, 03:22 PM
Well at least it isn't messing with Fields' head. He hit another HR in today's game bringing his total in the month to 9.

balke
08-27-2007, 03:32 PM
I'm really hoping the Sox get 2 new outfielders this offseason. I don't want Kenny cheaping out on us this offseason like with the bullpen this season...

How did he cheap out on the bullpen? Everyone was happy about the bullpen coming into the season. Who was there to buy that he didn't?


I'm personally offended the Sox would make such a ridiculous move (Fields to LF) to accomodate an injured player hiding behind his agent.

He's probably not even recovered yet. I won't consider it hiding until its closer to re-sign time, and he refuses. I'd rather see a guy with Crede's glove at 3B and a guy with Fields' bat in LF.

ZombieRob
08-27-2007, 03:33 PM
Well at least it isn't messing with Fields' head. He hit another HR in today's game bringing his total in the month to 9.
Think he'll get any rookie of the year votes?I think he has an outside shot at getting a few.

balke
08-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Fields did get practice in winterball and he said it took him until the AS break to get comfortable with 3rd again. After watching his play yesterday I'm even more convinced that we need to stop ****ing around and stick him at 3rd for the next five plus years.

Why you are rooting for an inferior 3Bman to start at the corner with these pitchers is really beyond me. The defense of a healthy Crede v. Fields is night and day. I've never seen Fields make a diving stop down the line. I constantly see Uribe making ground on a roller through the left side of the infield, and Fields isn't even in the frame of the camera making an attempt, and a few times now I've seen balls hit hard to Josh's left that he would've had a play on if he weren't moving right initially.

Ditto with Owens BTW. Why is he, not Sweeney, in CF? Jerry has no arm. Sweeney should be up playing center.

Sweeney in CF? I'm not against him coming up and playing, but I hope you don't think he's MLB ready. He honestly hasn't shown that much this season. The Sox are in a corner trying to win, and I'm pretty much expecting a big name CFer in the offseason. In the meantime, hopefully Sweeney elevates his play and can sneak on the roster as a 4th OFer or something next season if Owens struggles or if he's playing LF and Fields is at 3B.

rowand33
08-27-2007, 03:43 PM
I was just thinking about this, but Fields moving to LF pretty much puts an end to the Jerry Owens experiment, doesn't it?

Assuming we intend to bring in an outfielder next year, and the fact that we have Josh and Dye locked into the corners, that leaves no room for Jerry Owens

Good. :gulp:

ZombieRob
08-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Why you are rooting for an inferior 3Bman to start at the corner with these pitchers is really beyond me. The defense of a healthy Crede v. Fields is night and day. I've never seen Fields make a diving stop down the line. I constantly see Uribe making ground on a roller through the left side of the infield, and Fields isn't even in the frame of the camera making an attempt, and a few times now I've seen balls hit hard to Josh's left that he would've had a play on if he weren't moving right initially.



Sweeney in CF? I'm not against him coming up and playing, but I hope you don't think he's MLB ready. He honestly hasn't shown that much this season. The Sox are in a corner trying to win, and I'm pretty much expecting a big name CFer in the offseason. In the meantime, hopefully Sweeney elevates his play and can sneak on the roster as a 4th OFer or something next season if Owens struggles or if he's playing LF and Fields is at 3B.
You have to keep Fields 3b ready incase Crede isn't what he used to be.As with any back surgery you most likely will lose some mobility in the way you bend.Plus we don't know what type of back surgery he had.Bulging Disc,Spinal Stenosis etc.

balke
08-27-2007, 03:47 PM
Think he'll get any rookie of the year votes?I think he has an outside shot at getting a few.

I'm sure he'll get votes. Matsuzaka is going to get the title though unfortunately. Boston has 3 big candidates with Okajima Matsuzaka and Pedroia.

ZombieRob
08-27-2007, 03:48 PM
I was just thinking about this, but Fields moving to LF pretty much puts an end to the Jerry Owens experiment, doesn't it?

Assuming we intend to bring in an outfielder next year, and the fact that we have Josh and Dye locked into the corners, that leaves no room for Jerry Owens

Good. :gulp:
I sure hope so.Ley this guy ride the bench a year or two .I'd like to see him shorten his stance,bring his right leg even with his left.IMO he has a power hitters stance without the power,this is why he seems very prone to the inside heat.I guy I'd like him to model himself after his Lance Johnson.

ZombieRob
08-27-2007, 03:50 PM
I'm sure he'll get votes. Matsuzaka is going to get the title though unfortunately. Boston has 3 big candidates with Okajima Matsuzaka and Pedroia.
Yea of course it will go to Boston.To bad he didn't get a full season.I'd just like him to get some votes just so he's recognized.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I really don't care where they play him, so long as they play him.

KenBerryGrab
08-27-2007, 04:08 PM
This is a common-sense move. Give the kid experience under fire, see if he hacks it out there, and if he does, you have more reason to keep Crede if he comes back strong.

oeo
08-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Sweeney in CF? I'm not against him coming up and playing, but I hope you don't think he's MLB ready. He honestly hasn't shown that much this season. The Sox are in a corner trying to win, and I'm pretty much expecting a big name CFer in the offseason. In the meantime, hopefully Sweeney elevates his play and can sneak on the roster as a 4th OFer or something next season if Owens struggles or if he's playing LF and Fields is at 3B.

Sweeney has shown improvements in both his power and plate discipline this year. His year has been inconsistent, but to say he hasn't shown anything is being ignorant.

He'll be up when rosters expand, and get his time in CF and RF. He's just as ready as Owens is, if you ask me.

russ99
08-27-2007, 04:50 PM
How did he cheap out on the bullpen? Everyone was happy about the bullpen coming into the season. Who was there to buy that he didn't?

I'd more accurately say everyone bought the hype about the bullpen.

Sure we had Jenks, MacDougal and Thornton, but the bullpen was a major weakness in 06 with Pollitte's flameout and Kenny shored it up with minor league trades with the Cubs and Royals. He would have had to overpay for an experienced set-up or middle-relief guy in free agency, but this season might not have been so horrible if he did.

Not to say things could have turned out any better with one more arm.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Sweeney has shown improvements in both his power and plate discipline this year. His year has been inconsistent, but to say he hasn't shown anything is being ignorant.

He'll be up when rosters expand, and get his time in CF and RF. He's just as ready as Owens is, if you ask me.

I still have high hopes for Sweeney and think he'll be a good player. He just needs time.

I'm not impressed as some by the so-called improvement that Owens has shown since being recalled. I don't see it and I don't want to see him starting in CF next year.

JermaineDye05
08-27-2007, 05:34 PM
well Josh now has 17 homeruns and 50 rbi in 74 games, averaging that over a full 162 game season he would have 37 HR and 109 RBI. Now of course I don't expect that of him since I know next season the league will make a major adjustment on Josh and that he'll have to adjust to them. Hopefully he can cut down on his strike outs and maybe get his average to about .265-.275. I really don't see Crede being here more then a month next year.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-27-2007, 06:13 PM
well Josh now has 17 homeruns and 50 rbi in 74 games, averaging that over a full 162 game season he would have 37 HR and 109 RBI. Now of course I don't expect that of him since I know next season the league will make a major adjustment on Josh and that he'll have to adjust to them. Hopefully he can cut down on his strike outs and maybe get his average to about .265-.275. I really don't see Crede being here more then a month next year.

I see Fields already making adjustments. The book on him is he's a very good fastball hitter but has trouble with the breaking ball. The last two HRs I've seen him hit have been off of breaking balls, including the one today. He went down and got that ball. Josh has a big upside.

AnkleSox
08-27-2007, 06:20 PM
I like Josh because his home runs actually come with men on base.

DickAllen72
08-27-2007, 06:31 PM
I see Fields already making adjustments. The book on him is he's a very good fastball hitter but has trouble with the breaking ball. The last two HRs I've seen him hit have been off of breaking balls, including the one today. He went down and got that ball. Josh has a big upside.
I thought the book on him was just the opposite.

Sockinchisox
08-27-2007, 06:50 PM
I thought the book on him was just the opposite.

Oh no, he can hit the fastball, just ask J.J. Putz

UserNameBlank
08-27-2007, 06:50 PM
Why you are rooting for an inferior 3Bman to start at the corner with these pitchers is really beyond me. The defense of a healthy Crede v. Fields is night and day. I've never seen Fields make a diving stop down the line. I constantly see Uribe making ground on a roller through the left side of the infield, and Fields isn't even in the frame of the camera making an attempt, and a few times now I've seen balls hit hard to Josh's left that he would've had a play on if he weren't moving right initially.

3B is more of an offensive position than a defensive position. It's just that many Sox fans generally aren't used to that because of Crede and Ventura being there regularly for most of the last 17 years or so. I've seen Fields make a diving stop down the line, in fact I've seen Fields make his share of good plays over there. Remember, a hair over three years ago Fields was drafted by the Sox as a football player. He's going to get better. He just needs time.

Also I don't think Crede is going to be with the Sox past 2008 tops. Too many things have to go right for that to happen. I would imagine the main reasons the Sox would want to hold on to him would be to 1) make the fans happy and 2) get something of value for Crede, be it draft picks if he leaves via FA or other players via pre-deadline trade.

The problem though is that we're currently on pace for a 70-91 record this year and while KW could pull off an amazing offseason that would bring us into serious contention next year, the odds aren't in our favor. That'll probably scare off fans more than Crede's departure would. Additionally, the best position prospect I can personally recall since Maggs and Lee came up is Josh and he's a 3B. I'd definitely argue that moving Fields around and taking another year of development at third away from him is going to hurt us. I also think that if you took the difference in the bounty that Crede could bring over the offseason versus the bounty a healthy, productive Crede could bring us midseason or after '08 in draft picks, the positive difference wouldn't be significant enough to offset the negatives of Josh's setback. Besides, if the Sox are capable of contending in 2009, I'd rather have a Josh Fields at 3B with a full year of big league experience there than have a Josh Fields at 3B trying to get reacquainted with the position.

Sweeney in CF? I'm not against him coming up and playing, but I hope you don't think he's MLB ready. He honestly hasn't shown that much this season. The Sox are in a corner trying to win, and I'm pretty much expecting a big name CFer in the offseason. In the meantime, hopefully Sweeney elevates his play and can sneak on the roster as a 4th OFer or something next season if Owens struggles or if he's playing LF and Fields is at 3B.

I guess it depends on what you want to call 'ready.' If 'ready' means ready to positively contribute to a championship caliber team I'd say he's not ready, but neither are Owens, Richar, or Danks for that matter. If 'ready' means ready to play and learn at the major league level during the worst Sox season in a long time, I'd say he is. I don't expect a whole lot from Ryan but the experience certainly can't hurt him. He's on the 40-man, we're using an option year on him, and our team sucks so bad that it can't hurt to play him, so I see no reason why he shouldn't be our starting CF.

If the Sox get a major league CF for next year then things turn out different, but if they don't, I'd much rather have Sweeney or the Spawn of Satan patrolling CF than Owens who couldn't stop a runner from advancing from 2nd to 3rd if he played SS. I like Jerry as a 4th OF on a good team or even a starting LF on a rebuilding, low-expectations team, but not as a CF or as a starter on a contender in any fashion.

Daver
08-27-2007, 07:02 PM
3B is more of an offensive position than a defensive position.

Perhaps in the NL, but not in the AL, in the AL you need at least an above average thirdbaseman, because your biggest defensive liability is generally going to play first. The AL is a hitters league, the better your infield is, the better your chance at winning is. You can concede defense in left if your left fielder is going to score more than he gives up, the same can somewhat be said of center, hell the White Sox won a world series with Aaron Rowand roaming center field.

balke
08-27-2007, 08:19 PM
Remember, a hair over three years ago Fields was drafted by the Sox as a football player. He's going to get better. He just needs time.

:LTP

YEAH!

Also I don't think Crede is going to be with the Sox past 2008 tops. Too many things have to go right for that to happen. I would imagine the main reasons the Sox would want to hold on to him would be to 1) make the fans happy and 2) get something of value for Crede, be it draft picks if he leaves via FA or other players via pre-deadline trade.

That and he's just a really good defensive 3Bman with power who's been clutch for the Sox and helped them win many games.

Josh Fields at 3B trying to get reacquainted with the position.

How far do you think he's going to develop? I trust the GM and managers position on Fields. If they don't feel like he's going to help the team at 3B, then I believe them. I don't think what happened with Crede's D happens with every or even a majority of 3Bman in baseball. Fields is likely to stay where he is defensively, as much as he is to progress. That being said, its not horrible D, but its not good enough for this pitching staff IMO. Sox would be better off gambling on Crede, and keeping Fields in LF. If things fall apart, there's a good young 3b/LFer to dangle as bait in a trade, and a good young vet with a solid glove to use as bait in a trade.

CLR01
08-27-2007, 08:55 PM
hell the White Sox won a world series with Aaron Rowand roaming center field.

Rowand did invent the game and is the best CFer/outfielded/player to ever play the game though...

Tragg
08-27-2007, 10:15 PM
The problem though is that we're currently on pace for a 70-91 record this year and while KW could pull off an amazing offseason that would bring us into serious contention next year, the odds aren't in our favor. That'll probably scare off fans more than Crede's departure would. Additionally, the best position prospect I can personally recall since Maggs and Lee came up is Josh and he's a 3B. I'd definitely argue that moving Fields around and taking another year of development at third away from him is going to hurt us. I also think that if you took the difference in the bounty that Crede could bring over the offseason versus the bounty a healthy, productive Crede could bring us midseason or after '08 in draft picks, the positive difference wouldn't be significant enough to offset the negatives of Josh's setback. Besides, if the Sox are capable of contending in 2009, I'd rather have a Josh Fields at 3B with a full year of big league experience there than have a Josh Fields at 3B trying to get reacquainted with the position.



I basically agree with you - if this is done to make Crede marketable - well, that doesn't make any sense at all. It has the potential of screwing up a young player; I suggest that this staff put its energy into developing young talent,. They seem to be more adept at positioning it to fail, than to succeed.

All things being equal, a 3B is more valuable than a LF. We also have several LF right now - if Owens plays, it should be in left. Dye belongs in left, not right (his D is slipping). So Owens in left means we have average or below in all OF position.
So who's our third-baseman? Extend Crede? Great - I'm all for it.
Rather than playing someone out of position why not extend Crede let Josh learn 3rd and trade him for a similar quality player at a position that we need? I'm not suggesting we do it, but it makes more sense than having a lousy defense. And we have needs.
If you want a bounty, Fields would bring a bounty. And if Crede isn't dependable, who will play 3B if Josh playes left? It looks like he'll be a great hitter - but if we have to play him out of position, move him and get a CF that we desparately need.

On a similar vein, give Richar some at bats atop the order.

Hitmen77
08-27-2007, 10:53 PM
i'd rather see jason bourgeois at 3b for september than cintron

What is Bourgeois's potential? It seems like every time I check a Charlotte box score, he's 2-4 or 3-5 for the game. How is his defense? What positions does he play well defensively?

Flight #24
08-27-2007, 11:34 PM
I basically agree with you - if this is done to make Crede marketable - well, that doesn't make any sense at all. It has the potential of screwing up a young player; I suggest that this staff put its energy into developing young talent,. They seem to be more adept at positioning it to fail, than to succeed.

All things being equal, a 3B is more valuable than a LF. We also have several LF right now - if Owens plays, it should be in left. Dye belongs in left, not right (his D is slipping). So Owens in left means we have average or below in all OF position.
So who's our third-baseman? Extend Crede? Great - I'm all for it.
Rather than playing someone out of position why not extend Crede let Josh learn 3rd and trade him for a similar quality player at a position that we need? I'm not suggesting we do it, but it makes more sense than having a lousy defense. And we have needs.
If you want a bounty, Fields would bring a bounty. And if Crede isn't dependable, who will play 3B if Josh playes left? It looks like he'll be a great hitter - but if we have to play him out of position, move him and get a CF that we desparately need.

On a similar vein, give Richar some at bats atop the order.

The problem is that Crede's a huge question mark. They don't know if they can rely on him (and if they can, for how long given his pending FA status). Their only realistic backup plan is Fields. But if Crede's healthy, he's a huge asset to the team. In an ideal world, you'd do what you say: trade one for a true OF and keep the other one (who'd be healthy and productive).

But unfortunately, you don't know Crede's long-term viability and you can't trade him for much at this point. So you either dump Crede for next to nothing, trade Fields and risk going without a real 3B if Crede's back goes out (or if he walks after '08, having that issue in '09), or do this.

Sure, this might retard Fields' defensive development, but is 6 weeks playing at a new position really going to kill a kid's career? I don't see it happening, especially not since he's already established himself as a decent major league hitter - his offensive confidence isn't going to be shot by struggling on D (plus he's moving to an easier position than 3B, so he should pick it up quicker now that he's playing it every day). The upside if he can learn to play it decently and the enhanced flexibility it gives the team in dealing with Crede is worth the small downside that if Crede gets hurt/moved and Josh moves back to 3B he'll be a few months behind where he was.

JB98
08-28-2007, 12:21 AM
I think you can (and have been made on this thread) make an argument either way for Fields playing the rest of the season at 3B or in LF. He's probably easier to hide in left. The saddest upshot of this issue is that with Fields in left for the balance of the year, the Sox have no alteratives at 3B (even after the September call-ups) better than Andy Gonzalez and Alex Cintron -- both dogs.

Why are some people so upset about Gonzalez and Cintron sharing 3B for the rest of the year? Who cares? 2007 is a lost cause. What do we have to lose, other than 31 more games? They can put me at 3B for the rest of the year, and it wouldn't hurt anything.

If Gonzalez and Cintron are sharing 3B when we open the 2008 season, then you can be upset. Right now, let it go. It's not important.

BadBobbyJenks
08-28-2007, 02:20 AM
I don't think Fields is going to be damaged by this move. There's only 32 games left. If he does terrible out there, they'll just have to reevaluate their plans during the offseason.


Miggy Cabrera never recovered from such a move....I dont get those kind of comments

Frater Perdurabo
08-28-2007, 06:17 AM
Fields isn't great defensively at any position, but his bat means the Sox need to find a place to put him.

If Crede returns, it's important that his glove be at third base, especially when Buehrle and Garland are pitching, since they rely on groundball outs.

If Crede proves to be healthy and stays with the Sox long-term, I think Fields' ultimate position is first base.

Thome's contract ends after 2008. He'll DH in 2008, then retire or leave as a free agent. Dye would DH in 2009, then probably will leave as a free agent or retire. 2010 is the last year of Paulie's current deal; I could see Paulie and Fields alternating between 1B and DH in 2010. If Paulie then leaves, Fields takes over at first.

esbrechtel
08-28-2007, 08:00 AM
Fields isn't great defensively at any position, but his bat means the Sox need to find a place to put him.

If Crede returns, it's important that his glove be at third base, especially when Buehrle and Garland are pitching, since they rely on groundball outs.

If Crede proves to be healthy and stays with the Sox long-term, I think Fields' ultimate position is first base.

Thome's contract ends after 2008. He'll DH in 2008, then retire or leave as a free agent. Dye would DH in 2009, then probably will leave as a free agent or retire. 2010 is the last year of Paulie's current deal; I could see Paulie and Fields alternating between 1B and DH in 2010. If Paulie then leaves, Fields takes over at first.
I personally think that is the best option of what to do with Fields....Smartest post in this thread....

voodoochile
08-28-2007, 08:23 AM
I personally think that is the best option of what to do with Fields....Smartest post in this thread....

Maybe. Let's see how the kid develops in LF. It's not traditionally a defensive position, in fact after 1B it's considered the least defensive position on the field. Heck, Dave freaking Kingman played LF for most of his career.

Fields has a strong enough arm for the outfield, the question is can he get used to reading flyballs off the bat and reacting quickly enough to become average. If so, leave him out there until his knees can't take it anymore and with luck that should be at least a decade.

JB98
08-28-2007, 12:06 PM
Miggy Cabrera never recovered from such a move....I dont get those kind of comments

Miguel Cabrera is batting .318 this year. I think he's doing just fine. And what does he have to do with Josh Fields anyway?

PalehosePlanet
08-28-2007, 04:20 PM
Miguel Cabrera is batting .318 this year. I think he's doing just fine. And what does he have to do with Josh Fields anyway?

I think the poster was referring to the fact that Cabrera, upon returning to 3rd base, is now a terrible defensive 3rd baseman. Like Josh he came up a 3B, then moved to OF.

JB98
08-28-2007, 06:08 PM
I think the poster was referring to the fact that Cabrera, upon returning to 3rd base, is now a terrible defensive 3rd baseman. Like Josh he came up a 3B, then moved to OF.

I still don't know what Cabrera's situation has to do with Josh Fields. Maybe Cabrera just sucks defensively. That doesn't prove that Fields is going to suck defensively forever by any means.

Frater Perdurabo
08-28-2007, 09:04 PM
I've decided if Fields starts in LF in 08, I'll be satisfied IF:

1. The Sox have a great defensive center fielder;

2. The Sox have a strong defensive shortstop;

3. One of these two guys can lead off.

Fields is not great defensively, and Dye's defense is declining (although his arm is still good). So CF is the only place to get plus defense in the outfield. The problem is that none of the pending FA CFs are leadoff hitters. OTOH, Anderson has proven he's great defensively, but even his most vocal supporters (like me) acknowledge that he's got a way to go with the bat (although I agree with Daver that the only way to learn to hit MLB pitching is to face MLB pitching) and could only be considered for the CF job if he could bat ninth and the rest of the lineup was strong 1 through 8. Obviously the rumored Contreras for Furcal swap would help tremendously. Therefore, I'd be OK with a lineup of Furcal, Richar, Thome, PK, JD, AJ, Fields, Crede and Anderson.

Tragg
08-28-2007, 09:51 PM
Why are some people so upset about Gonzalez and Cintron sharing 3B for the rest of the year? Who cares?
I don't like wasting games...play someone there who needs the experience. Gonzalez is fine....he might be our utility infielder next year;




Sure, this might retard Fields' defensive development, but is 6 weeks playing at a new position really going to kill a kid's career? I don't see it happening, especially not since he's already established himself as a decent major league hitter - his offensive confidence isn't going to be shot by struggling on D (plus he's moving to an easier position than 3B, so he should pick it up quicker now that he's playing it every day). The upside if he can learn to play it decently and the enhanced flexibility it gives the team in dealing with Crede is worth the small downside that if Crede gets hurt/moved and Josh moves back to 3B he'll be a few months behind where he was.
I hear ya. I remain suspect at players developing under this staff, so detours worry me. I guess I was hoping that Dye would move to left and we could get someone else to play right and center.

BadBobbyJenks
08-29-2007, 05:13 PM
I still don't know what Cabrera's situation has to do with Josh Fields. Maybe Cabrera just sucks defensively. That doesn't prove that Fields is going to suck defensively forever by any means.



Actually I quoted the wrong person, Miggy Cabrera played in left and 3rd just like fields and I was being sarcastic that miggy is still a hell of a player despite being messed around with in the field when he was young.

JB98
08-29-2007, 05:51 PM
Actually I quoted the wrong person, Miggy Cabrera played in left and 3rd just like fields and I was being sarcastic that miggy is still a hell of a player despite being messed around with in the field when he was young.

If Josh Fields develops into the same type of hitter Cabrera is, I'll be delighted. We'll find a spot for him somewhere on the field. That's the bottom line, getting Josh's bat in the lineup for 2008 in some way, shape or fashion.

KyWhiSoxFan
08-29-2007, 05:53 PM
I hear ya. I remain suspect at players developing under this staff, so detours worry me. I guess I was hoping that Dye would move to left and we could get someone else to play right and center.

I'm hoping Dye is the DH, we get another RF, and we trade Thome. Yeah, that probably won't happen, but I want to see the team get a lot faster.

JB98
08-29-2007, 06:02 PM
I'm hoping Dye is the DH, we get another RF, and we trade Thome. Yeah, that probably won't happen, but I want to see the team get a lot faster.

That would help. So would some guys who can hit.

UserNameBlank
08-29-2007, 06:44 PM
I think the poster was referring to the fact that Cabrera, upon returning to 3rd base, is now a terrible defensive 3rd baseman. Like Josh he came up a 3B, then moved to OF.
I think it has been said that work ethic, or lack thereof, is the main cause for that. I know the Marlins have had some trouble with Miguel in the past.

FedEx227
08-29-2007, 06:52 PM
I think it has been said that work ethic, or lack thereof, is the main cause for that. I know the Marlins have had some trouble with Miguel in the past.

Exactly. Cabrera is an exception. He has a total lack of work ethic and has gotten himself out of shape in recent years. Sad really, he has the talent to be one of the best ever.

UserNameBlank
08-29-2007, 07:02 PM
Exactly. Cabrera is an exception. He has a total lack of work ethic and has gotten himself out of shape in recent years. Sad really, he has the talent to be one of the best ever.
True, he does have all the talent in the world. Apparently he has quite an attitude too.

I don't think that will be a problem with Josh though. Josh HAS to have a terrific work ethic to come as far as he has in 3+ years after playing football. What I worry about with Josh is that he's learning so much so fast and I don't want to see him get comfortable in one area and then be moved somewhere else. I like Crede but I think he's pretty much a goner and was hoping the Sox would look at Josh as the more important piece and then decide what to do with Crede instead of the other way around. Maybe it works out but it looks like a mistake to me.

soxinem1
08-30-2007, 06:40 PM
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/carlton_fisk_autograph.jpg

'They moved me to LF, and that lasted about a month..........'


http://www.theheckler.com/news/articlefiles/202-06-08-kenny-williams.JPG

'They moved me to 3B and that lasted about a month...........'


http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/2006/03/30/46amzcMS.jpg

'I'm movin' to LF for about a month. I'd rather play SS. Let's see how it works..... Will the third time be a charm?'

In all fairness, Crede hit a ton when he was first brought up, then didn't really hit with any power consistently until later in 2005. I'd hate to see the team bank on Fields then he tanks. I'm glad Ozzie is letting him play, unlike he did with BA.

JB98
08-30-2007, 06:49 PM
In all fairness, Crede hit a ton when he was first brought up, then didn't really hit with any power consistently until later in 2005. I'd hate to see the team bank on Fields then he tanks. I'm glad Ozzie is letting him play, unlike he did with BA.

Fields has earned the right to continue to play. That can't be said for some other young players who have received opportunites recently, both position players and pitchers.

DickAllen72
08-30-2007, 06:59 PM
I long for the day when I log on to WSI and see the thread, "Fields Is Now Our DH."

Until then I'll just call him "Josh no-Fields". :(: