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View Full Version : Ozzie's Logic Today with Bullpen/Myers


Brian26
08-22-2007, 07:10 PM
I didn't see the game, but I just saw the highlights. Myers gave up a bomb to a righthanded hitter (I believe it was Butler). Last night, Ozzie let Myers pitch to one lefthanded batter (who got a hit), and then Ozzie ran out and pulled Myers immediately for a righty, before bringing in Thornton after that batter to face a lefty. So last night Ozzie wouldn't let Myers face one righty. Today, it appears Ozzie let Myers face a righty (Butler), if not more. Anyone know Ozzie's reasoning on this? Is there any logic to it?

The Dude
08-22-2007, 07:14 PM
I didn't see the game, but I just saw the highlights. Myers gave up a bomb to a righthanded hitter (I believe it was Butler). Last night, Ozzie let Myers pitch to one lefthanded batter (who got a hit), and then Ozzie ran out and pulled Myers immediately for a righty, before bringing in Thornton after that batter to face a lefty. So last night Ozzie wouldn't let Myers face one righty. Today, it appears Ozzie let Myers face a righty (Butler), if not more. Anyone know Ozzie's reasoning on this? Is there any logic to it?

In a word...no. Just Ozzie being Ozzie.

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:14 PM
I didn't see the game, but I just saw the highlights. Myers gave up a bomb to a righthanded hitter (I believe it was Butler). Last night, Ozzie let Myers pitch to one lefthanded batter (who got a hit), and then Ozzie ran out and pulled Myers immediately for a righty, before bringing in Thornton after that batter to face a lefty. So last night Ozzie wouldn't let Myers face one righty. Today, it appears Ozzie let Myers face a righty (Butler), if not more. Anyone know Ozzie's reasoning on this? Is there any logic to it?

Ozzie does the lefty-righty, batter-by-batter stuff whenever the Sox are leading. He's more inclined to let a pitcher work a full inning when the Sox are trailing.

Tragg
08-22-2007, 07:24 PM
Is there any logic to Meyers being on this team?

ilsox7
08-22-2007, 07:25 PM
Is there any logic to Meyers being on this team?

Sure. They are paying him almost nothing this year to see if he can help out next year. If he sucks, so be it. If he looks good, then he has at least had an audition in MLB games.

getonbckthr
08-22-2007, 07:26 PM
A lost season trying to see if this guy can prove his worth towards next years team. I expect alot of this from Ozzie and i'm happy about. This season is a loss see what we have, what our guys can and can't do.

Tragg
08-22-2007, 07:37 PM
Sure. They are paying him almost nothing this year to see if he can help out next year. If he sucks, so be it. If he looks good, then he has at least had an audition in MLB games.
I just wonder why we're letting 38 year olds join the team and prove their worth instead of the bevy of young pitchers we have in AAA and AA. It's pretty par for the course, but I don't get it.


Let's say he's good this year. Does that mean you pencil him in next year, as inconsistent as he is? At the Sox' risk.

On the other hand, the Sox have a bevy of pitchers in AAA and AA (studs and relief pitcher ceiling prospects) they could try out. Through it all, 2 low ceiling AAA pitchers, Wasermann and Logan, have outperformed the collection of career middle relievers this year.

getonbckthr
08-22-2007, 07:40 PM
I just wonder why we're letting 38 year olds join the team and prove their worth instead of the bevy of young pitchers we have in AAA and AA. It's pretty par for the course, but I don't get it.


Let's say he's good this year. Does that mean you pencil him in next year, as inconsistent as he is? At the Sox' risk.

On the other hand, the Sox have a bevy of pitchers in AAA and AA (studs and relief pitcher ceiling prospects) they could try out. Through it all, 2 low ceiling AAA pitchers, Wasermann and Logan, have outperformed the collection of career middle relievers this year.
I believe we have an option on him for next season. So the idea of finding a possible veteran arm for the pen next year isn't horrible.

Tragg
08-22-2007, 07:47 PM
I believe we have an option on him for next season. So the idea of finding a possible veteran arm for the pen next year isn't horrible.NOt at all. I suggest AAA.
But there's nothing this guy can prove anyway. This year is no indication of next. He has a good month and the Sox throw 1.5 million at him? ONLY because he's a veteran. Pitchers like Polite and Hermanson - they weren't career middle relievers by any stretch. Neither was Marte. The only one was Viz and he was last out of the pen. And hell, in the playoffs we used El D and he was better than any of them. So after 2005, we go back to loading up with mediocre veteran middle relievers, just like we did in 03 and 04. Last year it was Nelson and Riske; this year Ardsma, MacDougal, Bukvich

Tragg, it would be really nice if you looked up some stuff on this 'bevy' of players we have in the minors. You keep bringing this up, but they're non-existent. You want guys that have already failed in the bullpen, to be put back into the bullpen. And you don't want extra arms for next year, when this year we were 2, 3, 4 arms short. We need arms, and we need a lot of them.

Our farm system is bad, we don't have all these players you keep talking about to come up. If we did, they would have been up here, and we never would have had to re-sign Pods, or sign Erstad or Terrero. We just don't have the resources, stop thinking we do.
As I've done before: Egbert, Gio, Masset, Floyd, Sisco (et al in the lower minor leagues). Some have been given some chances; some have failed in limited chances, some haven't. Most are YOUNG and need to be developed.
Our farm system is NOT bad in pitching. It's bad in hitting. And there's another factor: a coaching staff whose both interest in and ability to develop young players is a major question mark.
No question you need a lot of vets to win. But let's get some good ones.

oeo
08-22-2007, 07:47 PM
I just wonder why we're letting 38 year olds join the team and prove their worth instead of the bevy of young pitchers we have in AAA and AA. It's pretty par for the course, but I don't get it.

Let's say he's good this year. Does that mean you pencil him in next year, as inconsistent as he is? At the Sox' risk.

On the other hand, the Sox have a bevy of pitchers in AAA and AA (studs and relief pitcher ceiling prospects) they could try out. Through it all, 2 low ceiling AAA pitchers, Wasermann and Logan, have outperformed the collection of career middle relievers this year.

Tragg, it would be really nice if you looked up some stuff on this 'bevy' of players we have in the minors. You keep bringing this up, but they're non-existent. You want guys that have already failed in the bullpen, to be put back into the bullpen. And you don't want extra arms for next year, when this year we were 2, 3, 4 arms short. We need arms, and we need a lot of them.

Give it up. Myers was not a bad signing. Why does his age matter if he's going to help the team? We need the arms, who cares if he's 50...if he gets outs, I like him.

Our farm system is bad, we don't have all these players you keep talking about to come up. If we did, they would have been up here, and we never would have had to re-sign Pods, or sign Erstad or Terrero. We just don't have the resources, stop thinking we do.

soxfanreggie
08-22-2007, 07:49 PM
I don't mind giving a guy a shot. The guys we have brought up from the minors haven't done too well for us so far this year, so what's wrong with having a few veteran guys on the team.

oeo
08-22-2007, 07:51 PM
NOt at all. I suggest AAA.
But there's nothing this guy can prove anyway. This year is no indication of next. He has a good month and the Sox throw 1.5 million at him? ONLY because he's a veteran.

As it is, he's been used in 2 high leverage situations and failed miserably both times. That's a lot more opportunity than young pitchers get.

Okay, if he sucks next year, we only owe him $1 million. If he sucks, he sucks. Do you really want another situation like this year where we take a huge risk with a bunch of young pitchers? Come on...you're ready to make the same mistake that Kenny made this year, and then you'd probably be the first to criticize if it didn't work again.

russ99
08-23-2007, 09:22 AM
If we throw our developing pitchers into a MLB bullpen, it would stunt their growth. It's better for them to develop their craft and confidence against lesser competition.

I'm sure one or two might work out, but would completely destroy the confidence of most of them, especially how Ozzie uses pitchers.

Let's give Myers a shot. He's cheap and had a decent enough ERA with the Yankees. He may fill a middle relief spot next year, and Kenny won't have to spend for an extra reliever in the offseason.

If he flames out this season, at least they took a shot on an experienced MLB vet, instead of throwing career minor leaguers like Prinz & Bukvich to the wolves.

spiffie
08-23-2007, 10:13 AM
NOt at all. I suggest AAA.
But there's nothing this guy can prove anyway. This year is no indication of next. He has a good month and the Sox throw 1.5 million at him? ONLY because he's a veteran. Pitchers like Polite and Hermanson - they weren't career middle relievers by any stretch. Neither was Marte. The only one was Viz and he was last out of the pen. And hell, in the playoffs we used El D and he was better than any of them. So after 2005, we go back to loading up with mediocre veteran middle relievers, just like we did in 03 and 04. Last year it was Nelson and Riske; this year Ardsma, MacDougal, Bukvich


As I've done before: Egbert, Gio, Masset, Floyd, Sisco (et al in the lower minor leagues). Some have been given some chances; some have failed in limited chances, some haven't. Most are YOUNG and need to be developed.
Our farm system is NOT bad in pitching. It's bad in hitting. And there's another factor: a coaching staff whose both interest in and ability to develop young players is a major question mark.
No question you need a lot of vets to win. But let's get some good ones.
How does Sisco not fall into the category of awful veteran pitchers? He had 132 MLB appearances coming into this year and is 24 years old, more than Aardsma who had 56 and is 25 years old.

Huisj
08-23-2007, 11:20 AM
How does Sisco not fall into the category of awful veteran pitchers? He had 132 MLB appearances coming into this year and is 24 years old, more than Aardsma who had 56 and is 25 years old.

Could it have something to do with the fact that he is, as you stated, 24 years old? He was rushed to the majors extremely quickly--went from A ball with the Cubs to the majors as a Rule V pick with KC. He was ok but wild that year, then bad and wild the next year, and then blew up this year after some decent outings early on. And your arguing he's a veteran based on that?

spiffie
08-23-2007, 12:19 PM
Could it have something to do with the fact that he is, as you stated, 24 years old? He was rushed to the majors extremely quickly--went from A ball with the Cubs to the majors as a Rule V pick with KC. He was ok but wild that year, then bad and wild the next year, and then blew up this year after some decent outings early on. And your arguing he's a veteran based on that?
I'm not, but considering that Tragg was calling Aardsma, a guy one year older and with half the MLB experience a mediocre veteran middle reliever, I was hoping that seeming discrepancy could be cleared up.