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View Full Version : *Official* Welcome back to the cellar - 8/22 Post Game Thread


SBSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Fields made it interesting. :whiner:

Oops. That's post game thread :redface:

chisoxmike
08-22-2007, 05:22 PM
Seriously, what the **** Jose? I like two out runs

kidmccarthy
08-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Nice to see them make the game interesting. I have an important question. What is the Sox record with Hall catching. I dont think its very good. That could be a problem next year as well.

infohawk
08-22-2007, 05:26 PM
The silver lining is that Fields continues to show impressive power and Owens is getting on base. The continued development of these two, along with Danny Richar, is absolutely crucial to this franchise.

cleanwsox
08-22-2007, 05:26 PM
16 losses for Jose now. Could he hit 20?

The Immigrant
08-22-2007, 05:27 PM
Josh Fields is a special talent.

KingXerxes
08-22-2007, 05:31 PM
16 losses for Jose now. Could he hit 20?

They should mothball him for the remainder of the year. In the Spring of 2008, if he shows some decent velocity/movement, start touting him as being "all better" and then try to unload him. If they keep trotting him out, and he keeps losing, he'll be nothing more than a $22 million liability to this club.

HotelWhiteSox
08-22-2007, 05:31 PM
Seriously, what the **** Jose?

I will go with *** Ozzie. There's no reason for Jose to start any more games this year (and of course right now in the postgame he says he will continue to run him out there). If he's good or comfortable in the bullpen, just leave him in there (McCarthy showed being good in one role won't guarantee that translating to another role), and maybe make him look more appealing, now it's all down the trash again. Time to see what the young guys got, even if they suck too.

voodoochile
08-22-2007, 05:31 PM
Josh Fields is a special talent.

At the rate he is developing he's going to bat 4th or 5th some day.

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-22-2007, 05:31 PM
16 losses for Jose now. Could he hit 20?

:?:

:angry::angry::angry:

southside rocks
08-22-2007, 05:32 PM
Ugh, I really wanted them to win this one ... I'm going tomorrow night and Beckett's pitching. That could be dismal for the good guys. Oh well, I have great seats.

SBSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:32 PM
Seriously, what the **** Jose? I like two out runs

No doubt. 5 2-out runs + one unearned run = 1 run loss.

SBSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:35 PM
I will go with *** Ozzie. There's no reason for Jose to start any more games this year (and of course right now in the postgame he says he will continue to run him out there). If he's good or comfortable in the bullpen, just leave him in there (McCarthy showed being good in one role won't guarantee that translating to another role), and maybe make him look more appealing, now it's all down the trash again. Time to see what the young guys got, even if they suck too.

He actually wasn't all that bad today. 6 IP, 4 ER will get you a nice paycheck with an NL team. And Floyd seems to be better out of the pen than starting.

MCHSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:43 PM
Nice to see them make the game interesting. I have an important question. What is the Sox record with Hall catching. I dont think its very good. That could be a problem next year as well.

Oh man. The Sox seem to really suck with Hall catching. Literally, I think they have won no more than 3 games. On a good note, Josh made it fun...A LITTLE.

Mr.1Dog
08-22-2007, 05:44 PM
:puking: Atleast I was busy at work today where I didn't have to endure watching or paying attention. If Jose starts one more game for the Sox, that is one too many for him.

Foulke You
08-22-2007, 05:45 PM
At the rate he is developing he's going to bat 4th or 5th some day.
If he keeps hitting at this clip, I don't see how the Sox can NOT have a roster spot saved for him in '08. The question remains though as what defensive position he will have. 3B, LF, or DH seem to be the only options for him.

ilsox7
08-22-2007, 05:45 PM
Oh man. The Sox seem to really suck with Hall catching. Literally, I think they have won no more than 3 games. On a good note, Josh made it fun...A LITTLE.

The Sox suck no matter who is catching. Also, Hall presumably plays mostly when left-handers start and we suck at hitting left-handers.

MCHSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:49 PM
The Sox suck no matter who is catching. Also, Hall presumably plays mostly when left-handers start and we suck at hitting left-handers.

Yes. I hate to say it, but that is ALL TRUE of the White Sox.

Flight #24
08-22-2007, 05:51 PM
I'd like a bit more hitting from Owens (who seems to have settled in around .250), but I think he, Richar (despite the avg), and Fields are definite keepers. Hopefully Crede comes back strong and the Sox can use him to upgrade LF (by plugging Fields in and returning Joe to 3B). That would be huge for the O, leaving pretty much just SS as a gaping hole with Owens in CF (and Anderson/Sweeney right behind or a resigned erstad platooning at less than his $3.5M and with a commitment from Ozzie to play him no more then 2x/week).

voodoochile
08-22-2007, 05:52 PM
If he keeps hitting at this clip, I don't see how the Sox can NOT have a roster spot saved for him in '08. The question remains though as what defensive position he will have. 3B, LF, or DH seem to be the only options for him.

KW also has said he could play 1B but that would move PK to DH and then what do you do with Thome?

I think the chance of Crede re-signing with the Sox are becoming less and less likely with every ball Josh crushes and he has been crushing a LOT of them recently. Even a couple of outs he had earlier this week were simply smoked into CF/RCF (nice to see he has power to the opposite field too).

The Immigrant
08-22-2007, 05:56 PM
Also, Hall presumably plays mostly when left-handers start and we suck at hitting left-handers.

You'd think that would be the case, but then you see that the last 4 games Hall has started were all against right-handers. Bizarre.

ilsox7
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
You'd think that would be the case, but then you see that the last 4 games Hall has started were all against right-handers. Bizarre.

Day games after night games?

Who knows.

soxtalker
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Oh man. The Sox seem to really suck with Hall catching. Literally, I think they have won no more than 3 games. On a good note, Josh made it fun...A LITTLE.

I keep wondering just how well Hall recovered from his injury. Is he likely to undergo surgery in the off season?

voodoochile
08-22-2007, 06:01 PM
Day games after night games?

Who knows.

As is often the case on Sundays too.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 06:16 PM
At the rate he is developing he's going to bat 4th or 5th some day.
My question is this.Could he be a better talent then Crede or Ventura at least offensively?And IMO I don't move him from 3rd .I think moving him from 3rd to LF could really slow his defensive growth at 3rd.Unless they plan on extending Crede a few more years.

voodoochile
08-22-2007, 06:18 PM
My question is this.Could he be a better talent then Crede or Ventura at least offensively?And IMO I don't move him from 3rd .I think moving him from 3rd to LF could really slow his defensive growth at 3rd.Unless they plan on extending Crede a few more years.

I think he's easily as good as those two players offensively from what I have seen. Maybe not Ventura yet, but he's will be better than Crede, IMO.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 06:21 PM
If he keeps hitting at this clip, I don't see how the Sox can NOT have a roster spot saved for him in '08. The question remains though as what defensive position he will have. 3B, LF, or DH seem to be the only options for him.
I think if the Sox are going to keep Crede now is the prime opportunity to sign him to a Dye like contract.But like I mentioned before ,I'd hate to see Fields shifting to LF then back to 3rd again in a year or two.

The Immigrant
08-22-2007, 06:23 PM
Day games after night games?

Only two out of four. Also, two of the four games were on nights right after we faced a left-hander (DiNardo in Oakland and Washburn at home), with A.J. getting the start against them and Hall going the following night against a right-hander.

My theory is that Ozzie doesn't want A.J. to think he is in a platoon situation and thus mixes up the matchups from time to time.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 06:28 PM
I know alot of people don't like Erstad,but I'm convinced he definitely has a role on this team next year has a versatile bench player.I like him alot better defensively and offensively then what Mack brought to the table.

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:29 PM
At the rate he is developing he's going to bat 4th or 5th some day.

He probably should be batting fifth or sixth right now. All these Ks don't jive well with the second spot in the order. Josh needs to be in a power-producing spot in the lineup.

My only other comment on today's game: Contreras is still bad.

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:31 PM
I know alot of people don't like Erstad,but I'm convinced he definitely has a role on this team next year has a versatile bench player.I like him alot better defensively and offensively then what Mack brought to the table.

Defensively, Erstad is better than Mack, but I think Mack is a better hitter. Depends on what you value more in bench players.

Personally, I liked Mack better because he doesn't spend as much time on the DL as Erstad.

Darin has contributed when healthy.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 06:34 PM
Defensively, Erstad is better than Mack, but I think Mack is a better hitter. Depends on what you value more in bench players.

Personally, I liked Mack better because he doesn't spend as much time on the DL as Erstad.

Darin has contributed when healthy.
I think they are 2 diffrent types of hitters IMO.As far as your Fields view I agree.I also think as D.J pointed out,If and once he learns to go with pitches,He could be a monster.And what impresses me is ,he already seems to be trying to at times to go the other way.

LITTLE NELL
08-22-2007, 06:36 PM
Defensively, Erstad is better than Mack, but I think Mack is a better hitter. Depends on what you value more in bench players.

Personally, I liked Mack better because he doesn't spend as much time on the DL as Erstad.

Darin has contributed when healthy.
With Pods always a ? mark I think we have to give Erstad one more year. If he stays healthy he is a real good 4th outfielder and a real good backup at 1st. Pods was great in 05 but its time for him to go.

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:41 PM
I think they are 2 diffrent types of hitters IMO.As far as your Fields view I agree.I also think as D.J pointed out,If and once he learns to go with pitches,He could be a monster.And what impresses me is ,he already seems to be trying to at times to go the other way.

Fields has hit some balls out to the opposite field. He has power in all directions. He's a good fastball hitter. He has trouble with right-handed pitchers with good breaking balls. Josh doesn't seem to like the ball moving away from him. That's the adjustment he needs to make to cut down on his Ks and become a really good hitter.

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:42 PM
With Pods always a ? mark I think we have to give Erstad one more year. If he stays healthy he is a real good 4th outfielder and a real good backup at 1st. Pods was great in 05 but its time for him to go.

I think Darin's option is a little too pricey, but we'll see.

I agree on Pods. I've grown weary of his injuries. He's a good player, but he's just too unreliable.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 07:00 PM
Heres another thing I'm torn on.I like Owens,but I'm really on the fence about him being an everyday guy.Do the Sox give him the ball next year?Do the pull a shot like they did Rowand when they brough Loften in after he thought he had the job?Or do you keep him as a bench player and bring in another CF? Also Richar is a Keeper no doubt.Is there a F.A shortstop availible next year that can lead off?Also on the fence about Owens leading off...Maybe some time in winter ball?

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:02 PM
Heres another thing I'm torn on.I like Owens,but I'm really on the fence about him being an everyday guy.Do the Sox give him the ball next year?Do the pull a shot like they did Rowand when they brough Loften in after he thought he had the job?Or do you keep him as a bench player and bring in another CF? Also Richar is a Keeper no doubt.Is there a F.A shortstop availible next year that can lead off?Also on the fence about Owens leading off...Maybe some time in winter ball?

I keep him in the lineup, but bat him ninth. Try to acquire someone else to hit leadoff (Furcal?) and try to fill the other outfield spot with someone with some pop.

ndgt10
08-22-2007, 07:04 PM
At the rate he is developing he's going to bat 4th or 5th some day.:hijacked: :hijacked: :hijacked:
Funny how everyone wants to get in Fields' pants, when Chris Young is getting bashed on this same site despite having more HR's and a similar batting average.

:hijacked: :hijacked: :hijacked:

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:05 PM
Funny how everyone wants to get in Fields' pants, when Chris Young is getting bashed on this same site despite having more HR's and a similar batting average.

Chris Young is batting .140 with RISP.

Josh Fields has gotten some big hits for the club, and he's done it in the late innings. That's a refreshing change from some of the other young players this organization has produced in recent years.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 07:06 PM
I keep him in the lineup, but bat him ninth. Try to acquire someone else to hit leadoff (Furcal?) and try to fill the other outfield spot with someone with some pop.
I agree ,having him and Richar at the bottem will really cause some problems for other teams.I have always liked slice and slash hitters with speed and Richar can surprise with a little power.Think we can get Furcal cheap?

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 07:08 PM
Funny how everyone wants to get in Fields' pants, when Chris Young is getting bashed on this same site despite having more HR's and a similar batting average.
A little bit diffrent then hitting big league pitching compared to minor league pitching.I do think Chris Young will have a chance during next spring training to shine.

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:09 PM
I agree ,having him and Richar at the bottem will really cause some problems for other teams.I have always liked slice and slash hitters with speed and Richar can surprise with a little power.Think we can get Furcal cheap?

Don't know what it would take to get Furcal, but the Dodgers have a SS prospect waiting in the wings. They might be looking to move Furcal this offseason.

I'd be tempted to move Richar up to the second spot in the order. He makes more contact than Owens does. I'd like to see what he can do with Thome protecting him in the order.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 07:14 PM
Don't know what it would take to get Furcal, but the Dodgers have a SS prospect waiting in the wings. They might be looking to move Furcal this offseason.

I'd be tempted to move Richar up to the second spot in the order. He makes more contact than Owens does. I'd like to see what he can do with Thome protecting him in the order.
I just want more speed on the team period .No more clogs and I'd like to try mixing power guys with the speed guys instead of having 3456 hitters with no speed.

OG4LIFE
08-22-2007, 07:16 PM
Oh man. The Sox seem to really suck with Hall catching. Literally, I think they have won no more than 3 games.


Sox are 7-21 whenever hall has seen the field (0-2 when he has come in to pinch hit, 0-1 when in as a defensive replacement).

:o::o::o:

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:18 PM
I just want more speed on the team period .No more clogs and I'd like to try mixing power guys with the speed guys instead of having 3456 hitters with no speed.

That's another reason to put Fields in the middle of the lineup somewhere. I know Josh is playing with a nagging hamstring problem. When healthy, he can run well enough to steal bases. He hasn't been able to show that part of his game much this season.

JB98
08-22-2007, 07:19 PM
Sox are 7-21 whenever hall has seen the field (0-2 when he has come in to pinch hit, 0-1 when in as a defensive replacement).

:o::o::o:

I hope we extend AJ, and I hope Lucy develops. We haven't had much luck with that backup catcher spot the last several years. We caught lightning in a bottle with Widger in 2005. Other than that, it's been dry.

MisterB
08-22-2007, 07:45 PM
Funny how everyone wants to get in Fields' pants, when Chris Young is getting bashed on this same site despite having more HR's and a similar batting average.

Chris Young is batting .140 with RISP.

Josh Fields has gotten some big hits for the club, and he's done it in the late innings. That's a refreshing change from some of the other young players this organization has produced in recent years.

Plus Young has had 200 more plate appearances.

Brian26
08-22-2007, 08:01 PM
Oh man. The Sox seem to really suck with Hall catching. Literally, I think they have won no more than 3 games.

This is the 2007 version of Chris Widger bashing.

Brian26
08-22-2007, 08:03 PM
KW also has said he could play 1B but that would move PK to DH and then what do you do with Thome?

If we were going to do that, I'd rather put Fields' glove in the DH position and keep PK on the field. Fields seems to be a liability, at this point at least, in the infield.

SoxSpeed22
08-22-2007, 08:05 PM
I would say Hall is very low on the huge-ass list of the Sox problems this year. And if I had to pick something to blame it on, it's the fact that getting hurt in Spring training screwed up his chance to mesh with the pitchers and get into the rhythm of the games.
With that said, I hope he's ok next year because there really isn't anyone better that's available.

Brian26
08-22-2007, 08:06 PM
Sox are 7-21 whenever hall has seen the field (0-2 when he has come in to pinch hit, 0-1 when in as a defensive replacement).

:o::o::o:

The Sox problems this year are far beyond anything related to Toby Hall.

FarWestChicago
08-22-2007, 08:14 PM
:hijacked: :hijacked: :hijacked:
Funny how everyone wants to get in Fields' pants, when Chris Young is getting bashed on this same site despite having more HR's and a similar batting average.

:hijacked: :hijacked: :hijacked:I think we all know who the winner of the Mr. Completely Irrelevant title is for the day. :thumbsup:

Tragg
08-22-2007, 08:31 PM
2 appearances for the 38 year old Meyers and he's been decimated 2 times. Let's see if he's marginalized like a young player would be in his shoes.

The problem with Erstad as 4th outfielder is a)pricey option and b)the manager loves this slap at everything hitter, so no way will be relegated to 4th outfielder duty if he's on the roster. I'd rather more pop, but he's fine for a 4th outfielder - certainly better than what we've had.

I'd like to see Richar hit at the top of the order (2nd) for a few games and see what he can do with some pitches to swing at; he has plate patience so I think he's eventually hit; but I hope he isn't "untaught" that hanging around this team and these coaches.

FarWestChicago
08-22-2007, 08:50 PM
2 appearances for the 38 year old Meyers and he's been decimated 2 times. Let's see if he's marginalized like a young player would be in his shoes.

The problem with Erstad as 4th outfielder is a)pricey option and b)the manager loves this slap at everything hitter, so no way will be relegated to 4th outfielder duty if he's on the roster. I'd rather more pop, but he's fine for a 4th outfielder - certainly better than what we've had.

I'd like to see Richar hit at the top of the order (2nd) for a few games and see what he can do with some pitches to swing at; he has plate patience so I think he's eventually hit; but I hope he isn't "untaught" that hanging around this team and these coaches.Tragg, have you been hitting the Apollo Moon Missions Never Happened sites lately or listening to Art Bell at night. You're really getting pretty far out in conspiracy land. :smile:

soxfanreggie
08-22-2007, 09:17 PM
Tough loss today, but 2,000 posts for me...that's cause to toast one up.

Hopefully the next milestone I hit will be after a White Sox win...so here's for post 3,000 being one that says "White Sox in the '08 Playoffs"

:gulp:

Tragg
08-23-2007, 12:10 AM
If we were going to do that, I'd rather put Fields' glove in the DH position and keep PK on the field. Fields seems to be a liability, at this point at least, in the infield.
His bat's pretty good and getting better. He needs to find a position that he can handle.
However Crede-Konerko-Thome-Dye-Fields manning 3B, 1B, DH, and one OF position offers good depth and, regular rest which the first 4 really need.

Tragg, have you been hitting the Apollo Moon Missions Never Happened sites lately or listening to Art Bell at night. You're really getting pretty far out in conspiracy land.
Beep beep beep beep beep.
I deserve that West...good one - and funny.

chisoxmike
08-23-2007, 12:37 AM
I know alot of people don't like Erstad,but I'm convinced he definitely has a role on this team next year has a versatile bench player.I like him alot better defensively and offensively then what Mack brought to the table.


Don't use this logic to people that think Erstad is responsible for everything wrong in the world.

I think Erstad's starting days are gone, but I wouldn't mind him as our 4th outfielder and backup first basemen.

kitekrazy
08-23-2007, 01:08 AM
Chris Young is batting .140 with RISP.

Josh Fields has gotten some big hits for the club, and he's done it in the late innings. That's a refreshing change from some of the other young players this organization has produced in recent years.

Just shows you how many fans over rate homeruns. I'll take timely hitting over homeruns any day.
The organization can't seem to shake station to station baseball and I think fans still believe in it.

kitekrazy
08-23-2007, 01:10 AM
I just want more speed on the team period .No more clogs and I'd like to try mixing power guys with the speed guys instead of having 3456 hitters with no speed.

What kind of Sox fan are you? We tried that once this century and all it got us was a World Series.

slavko
08-23-2007, 01:10 AM
Tragg, have you been hitting the Apollo Moon Missions Never Happened sites lately or listening to Art Bell at night. You're really getting pretty far out in conspiracy land. :smile:

I think Art's totally retired now. He's not even on weekends anymore.

MetroPD
08-23-2007, 05:40 AM
I think Art's totally retired now. He's not even on weekends anymore.
George is more humorous anyways.:redneck

Sad
08-23-2007, 02:43 PM
did the Comcast broadcast yesterday ever show ex-Bull Bob Love during the broadcast?

He was sitting on the aisle in the section next to us (also behind the Sox dugout)

just curious...

FarWestChicago
08-23-2007, 06:43 PM
I think Art's totally retired now. He's not even on weekends anymore.I saw that. I abused the facts a little for the humor angle. :smile:

wassagstdu
08-23-2007, 08:58 PM
Josh Fields is a special talent.

A .245 hitter with 90 strikeouts and 19 walks in 257 AB???

And average defensive skills at best???

Maybe special for being the best the Sox system has produced recently.

chisoxfanatic
08-23-2007, 09:01 PM
A .245 hitter with 90 strikeouts and 19 walks in 257 AB???
Josh Fields went to the Juan Uribe School Of Swinging.