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Lillian
08-22-2007, 06:20 AM
In that the middle infield remains one of the team's biggest question marks for next year, could we please discuss the "in house" possibilities?
I'd personally like to see Richar given a shot at short. He has the range, and the arm to be a pretty good defensive shortstop. There had been some criticism of his work at that position in the past, but he seems like he has the tools.
The quality of the infield surface at the Cell might help him significantly. Perhaps the minor league parks adversely affected his play.

We have several candidates for second base. Chris Getz was injured earlier this season, but appears back on track. He is a good on base percentage hitter, and could eventually be a great number 2 hitter.
Jason Bourgeois is still only 25, and can steal some bases, in addition to handling the bat. How good is he on defense?
I wouldn't rule out Pablo Ozuna at second. He will be in the Sox plans for next year, and there won't be any room for him in left field, where he never belonged in the first place.

I'd like to see Richar and Getz, and or Bourgeois as the keystone combo for the rest of the year.
Uribe can just sit for the rest of the season, as far as I'm concerned. Like many, I've always loved his potential, but he just hasn't improved at all.
He now seems to be retrogressing!

StillMissOzzie
08-22-2007, 09:52 AM
You're certainly much more up to speed on the Sox minor league candidates than I, but I'd have to agree, the midle infield is really in a state of flux for 2008.
I think that the jury is still out on Richar at 2B, but I like what I have seen so far. I would bet that Uribe, with a $5M option for 2008, is taillights. What I do find mildly amusing is that Omar Vizquel's name keeps getting tossed around. The Sox were interested in this guy three years ago, but only offered a two year deal. The Giants swooped in with a three year deal and off he went. Now that he's completed the third year that the Sox didn't want to give him in the first place, supposedly we want him starting now?

SMO
:?:

KRS1
08-22-2007, 12:15 PM
I have said this before, but I'll just put it back out there. Getz has experience at, and seems capable of playing good D at SS. I would love for him to play out the year at SS, and get a good long look there in ST to see if there is a future for him as an everyday SS. I would rather obtain a good young SS by almost any means necessary, without gutting the farm or our team, but whether that is realistic to hope for remains to be seen.

The Immigrant
08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
I expect Garland to be traded in the offseason for a package including a legitimate SS prospect or a current starter.

Madscout
08-22-2007, 02:44 PM
I expect Garland to be traded in the offseason for a package including a legitimate SS prospect or a current starter.

I hope not. That would be stupid. All this guy does is win. Sure, he'll come out and get shelled every once in a while, but W-L doesn't lie. 05' 18-10, '06 18-7, and with no run support, '07 8-9, but with just about the same ERA he had in '06.

esbrechtel
08-22-2007, 05:30 PM
I hope not. That would be stupid. All this guy does is win. Sure, he'll come out and get shelled every once in a while, but W-L doesn't lie. 05' 18-10, '06 18-7, and with no run support, '07 8-9, but with just about the same ERA he had in '06.
He will not win with a shotty infield....If Fields is to be the starting 3B we NEED solid D at SS otherwise having pitchers like Jon and Mark is pointless because they are not strike out pitchers....

MCHSoxFan
08-22-2007, 05:35 PM
He will not win with a shotty infield....If Fields is to be the starting 3B we NEED solid D at SS otherwise having pitchers like Jon and Mark is pointless because they are not strike out pitchers....

...They are ground-out pitchers.

roadrunner
08-22-2007, 06:02 PM
I hope not. That would be stupid. All this guy does is win. Sure, he'll come out and get shelled every once in a while, but W-L doesn't lie. 05' 18-10, '06 18-7, and with no run support, '07 8-9, but with just about the same ERA he had in '06.

You contradict yourself by providing a great example of how W-L record DOES lie.

I do, however, agree with your point about Garland being a winner. (but W-L record lies quite often)

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:04 PM
You contradict yourself by providing a great example of how W-L record DOES lie.

I do, however, agree with your point about Garland being a winner. (but W-L record lies quite often)

Most important stats for a starting pitcher: 30 starts, 200 innings. Do those two things, and the W-L usually takes care of itself. Garland is one of the guys who does that.

BadBobbyJenks
08-22-2007, 06:40 PM
Most important stats for a starting pitcher: 30 starts, 200 innings. Do those two things, and the W-L usually takes care of itself. Garland is one of the guys who does that.



I dont know "inning eaters" is quickly becoming one of the most overated things in evaluating pitchers.

goldglovesox
08-22-2007, 06:45 PM
Getz is not a SS. His arm is a little short to play the position. His hands and arm play better at 2B. Also a post earlier stated that he shows the makings of a "great" # 2 hitter. # 1 - I do not think I am ready nor do I see myself ever being ready to say that. # 2 - What makes you think that? Anyone for that matter, who believes he could be a force at the top of the order, I would like to hear that opinion. Maybe you see something I do not.

IMO I think he could be a very valuable utility IF who can give you a little bit of speed and bat control off the bench and also plays all 3 spots in the IF to give your everyday guys a day off. However I do not believe he is going to be a "great" # 2 hitter. When I think great # 2 guys I think Polanco in Detroit or Jeter etc. Getz certainly is not on that level and do not think he has the potential to be there.

My opinion is that the Sox will find a SS via trade or Free Agency. I would like to see Richar play 2B everyday next year. I think he swings the double play pretty well and will be a much better 2B than he would SS.
Just my opinion.

JB98
08-22-2007, 06:45 PM
I dont know "inning eaters" is quickly becoming one of the most overated things in evaluating pitchers.

A lot of the so-called "innings eaters" don't actually throw 200 innings. Chances are, if you get that many innings, you've been effective.

ZombieRob
08-22-2007, 06:58 PM
Myself and JB(* talked about this in the Post game thread.If there is a shortstop available we would want one that can lead off so Owens can bat 8th or 9th And the only one JB thought of was Furcal.And that might be a doible deal if the Sox do dangle Garland to the Dodgers.Except i think the Dodgers have to sweeten the pot.

Hitmen77
08-22-2007, 08:58 PM
I just can't stand Uribe anymore. Hitting .220 and his defense has declined significantly.

Unfortunately, the SS problem isn't one that the Sox can easily buy their way out of through free agency because there aren't many good options available.

I'm not sure what the Sox are going to do for SS next year. A trade is possible as some have suggested, but that will be costly for the Sox in terms of talent we'll have to give up. There is no easy solution for the Sox on this one.

Grzegorz
08-22-2007, 09:07 PM
Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh: the perfect stopgap.

Daver
08-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Most important stats for a starting pitcher: 30 starts, 200 innings. Do those two things, and the W-L usually takes care of itself. Garland is one of the guys who does that.

If you are going to use useless stats to define a starting pitcher, then I would go with quality starts.

KRS1
08-22-2007, 09:13 PM
Getz is not a SS. His arm is a little short to play the position. His hands and arm play better at 2B.

I am curious as to how many times you have seen him play. I have only seen him play a handful of games, and I saw him play SS twice. Both times he looked very capable. He has excellent footwork at either MI spot, and his arm is nothing to knock. It's nothing to write home about either, but compared to what Eckstein is working with, it's a cannon. I never said he would be a great fielding SS, but he has experience there, and has shown some good competence at the position from what I have witnessed. Thus, why I dont think it would be a bad idea in any way to let him get a bunch of work there, and try to prove his mettle at SS next spring.

JB98
08-22-2007, 09:17 PM
If you are going to use useless stats to define a starting pitcher, then I would go with quality starts.

Why? The quality start is the dumbest stat on earth. Pitch six innings and give up three runs, that's a quality start. Pitch eight innings and give up four, and that's not a quality start. What sense does that make?

If a guy makes all his starts and gets deep in the ballgame each time, chances are he's going to win his fair share.

SoxxoS
08-22-2007, 09:57 PM
Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh: the perfect stopgap.

Really?

Daver
08-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Why? The quality start is the dumbest stat on earth. Pitch six innings and give up three runs, that's a quality start. Pitch eight innings and give up four, and that's not a quality start. What sense does that make?

If a guy makes all his starts and gets deep in the ballgame each time, chances are he's going to win his fair share.

If you are going to use useless stats


That about says it all.

Tragg
08-22-2007, 10:24 PM
Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh: the perfect stopgap.
His contract is obscene.
I'd go for a stopgap, if we had the "After the stopgap" SS in the organization, who perhaps just needs experience. We need to get one of those.

fozzy
08-22-2007, 11:37 PM
Considering how the free agent shortstop pool for next year consists of david eckstein, omar vazquel and uribe and that it, all the sudden jack wilson is not that bad of an option. His contract is bad, he's owed 7.25 mil in 2008 and 8.5 in 2009, but if kenny could the pirates to kick in a million a year its do able. To put it in prospective uribe's option for 2008 is 5.5 mil.

Grzegorz
08-23-2007, 04:49 AM
Jack Wilson from Pittsburgh: the perfect stopgap.

Really?

Yes really...

stop·gap
–noun
Something that fills the place of something else that is lacking; temporary substitute; makeshift: Candles are a stopgap when the electricity fails.


Work on a deal, try to get Pittsburgh to eat some of the contract. Maybe look into the Pirate organization for some talent too. Philly ate some of Thome's contract. Having another team eat part of a contract is not a foreign concept.

SoxxoS
08-23-2007, 10:42 AM
Yes really...

stop·gap
–noun
Something that fills the place of something else that is lacking; temporary substitute; makeshift: Candles are a stopgap when the electricity fails.


Work on a deal, try to get Pittsburgh to eat some of the contract. Maybe look into the Pirate organization for some talent too. Philly ate some of Thome's contract. Having another team eat part of a contract is not a foreign concept.

I think a stopgap only works when who/what you are replacing is worse than the stopgap -and Jack Wilson, well, sucks.

Grzegorz
08-23-2007, 08:27 PM
I think a stopgap only works when who/what you are replacing is worse than the stopgap -and Jack Wilson, well, sucks.

Believe me, Wilson is an upgrade.

kitekrazy
08-23-2007, 09:57 PM
Most important stats for a starting pitcher: 30 starts, 200 innings. Do those two things, and the W-L usually takes care of itself.

Unless you are Jose Contreras.

kitekrazy
08-23-2007, 09:58 PM
Considering how the free agent shortstop pool for next year consists of david eckstein, omar vazquel and uribe and that it, all the sudden jack wilson is not that bad of an option. His contract is bad, he's owed 7.25 mil in 2008 and 8.5 in 2009, but if kenny could the pirates to kick in a million a year its do able. To put it in prospective uribe's option for 2008 is 5.5 mil.

We may be stuck Uribe for another year.:(:

MetroPD
08-24-2007, 04:33 AM
Believe me, Wilson is an upgrade.

Over Juan Uribe? You better believe it! Juan Uribe at 4.1 mil vs Wilson's 5.4 isn't that much of deal though.

Grzegorz
08-24-2007, 04:52 AM
The Pirates want Wilson off their books, deal and maybe the Pirates eat some of that salary.

Madscout
08-25-2007, 01:59 PM
He will not win with a shotty infield....If Fields is to be the starting 3B we NEED solid D at SS otherwise having pitchers like Jon and Mark is pointless because they are not strike out pitchers....

You tell me what is harder to find, a shortstop that can play the field, or two starting pitchers that have the play-off/world series expirience that these two have? With today's market on pitching, what's going to be harder?

I rest my case.

Danryan
08-26-2007, 07:34 AM
Iguchi at second, A healthy Cintron SS, we need more offense.