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MCHSoxFan
08-19-2007, 12:45 PM
Last night, while I was trying to sleep, I was thinking about the Sox. I usually do. I asked my self, is this year a fluke? After the they White Sox won 90 games in 2006 and just missed the postseason, someone said when they won the WS it was a fluke. That is stupid because they won 90 games after winning 99. It just was not enough to win the A.L. Central. I do not think 2005-2006 was a fluke. I have a feeling this year is. I mean, it seems as if the the talent is there.

So, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IF THIS YEAR IS A FLUKE OR 2005 WAS?

What I really think think this is just a bad year for the Sox. I do not think ths is the norm. Sure, 2005 may not be either, but 2007 for sure not the norm.

JB98
08-19-2007, 12:56 PM
Neither 2005 nor 2007 are flukes. We had a great club in 2005. They backed up the world championship with a 90-win season last year. That would have been good enough to make the playoffs in a lot of other seasons. Just not last year. It was an outstanding two years.

This year isn't a fluke either. The club has earned its position in the standings. In two years time, there has been a lot of roster turnover. This isn't the 2005 Sox anymore. Just look at the bullpen. Jenks is the only one left from the World Series.

Hell, look at our everyday lineup. Everett, Rowand and Iguchi are no longer here. Crede has been gone with injury most of the year. Look at our bench. No more Harris, Blum, Widger or Timo. Pablo has missed most of the year with injury.

The failure of the 2007 club doesn't make 2005 a fluke. Just as the 2005 success doesn't mean 2007 is a fluke. Very different clubs. Times change quickly in this era of baseball.

voodoochile
08-19-2007, 12:58 PM
Neither 2005 nor 2007 are flukes. We had a great club in 2005. They backed up the world championship with a 90-win season last year. That would have been good enough to make the playoffs in a lot of other seasons. Just not last year. It was an outstanding two years.

This year isn't a fluke either. The club has earned its position in the standings. In two years time, there has been a lot of roster turnover. This isn't the 2005 Sox anymore. Just look at the bullpen. Jenks is the only one left from the World Series.

Hell, look at our everyday lineup. Everett, Rowand and Iguchi are no longer here. Crede has been gone with injury most of the year. Look at our bench. No more Harris, Blum, Widger or Timo. Pablo has missed most of the year with injury.

The failure of the 2007 club doesn't make 2005 a fluke. Just as the 2005 success doesn't mean 2007 is a fluke. Very different clubs. Times change quickly in this era of baseball.

Great post... :thumbsup:

MCHSoxFan
08-19-2007, 01:01 PM
Neither 2005 nor 2007 are flukes. We had a great club in 2005. They backed up the world championship with a 90-win season last year. That would have been good enough to make the playoffs in a lot of other seasons. Just not last year. It was an outstanding two years.

This year isn't a fluke either. The club has earned its position in the standings. In two years time, there has been a lot of roster turnover. This isn't the 2005 Sox anymore. Just look at the bullpen. Jenks is the only one left from the World Series.

Hell, look at our everyday lineup. Everett, Rowand and Iguchi are no longer here. Crede has been gone with injury most of the year. Look at our bench. No more Harris, Blum, Widger or Timo. Pablo has missed most of the year with injury.

The failure of the 2007 club doesn't make 2005 a fluke. Just as the 2005 success doesn't mean 2007 is a fluke. Very different clubs. Times change quickly in this era of baseball.

Thank you very much. Now, I maybe actually able to sleep.

MCHSoxFan
08-19-2007, 01:05 PM
Oh, JB98, what you are saying is that the how a team plays one year has nothing to do with another. I already knoew that, but that is what you are trying to say. Correct?

Based on this, hopefully this WILL happen: The Sox are not playing good at all this season. Next season, we strom right back to win the division and go on to WIN IT ALL. This is how the game of baseball is. Man, this really is making me just soooo dang happy.

I gotta do this: YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!! :D:

TDog
08-19-2007, 01:13 PM
Here is where I should post a picture I took of a humpback whale fluke.

People who want to diminish the accomplishment of having the league's best record, going 7-1 in the ALDS and ALCS to get to the World Series and sweeping the World Series will call it a fluke. Obviously, things have to go right for a team to win the World Series, but the 2005 White Sox earned the title.

This season hasn't worked out as people expected. Even the people who predicted the Sox to fail expected them to fail for different reasons. Centerfield has been a huge problem for the last two seasons because the Sox, and everyone else, overestimated what Brian Anderson would bring to the team. A few valuable relievers haven't been able to come close to their production since 2005, and a couple of relievers people around here were happy to dump after 2005 have done better. The differences go on from there. This team is very different from the team that won the World Series, not just in their quality of play, but in their personnel.

Some flukey things have happened to the Sox this year. Some flukey things happened to the Sox in 2005. You play baseball for six months, just about ever day, and you're going to see some flukey things happen. But neither this team or the 2005 team should be regarded as flukes.

MCHSoxFan
08-19-2007, 01:20 PM
Here is where I should post a picture I took of a humpback whale fluke.

People who want to diminish the accomplishment of having the league's best record, going 7-1 in the ALDS and ALCS to get to the World Series and sweeping the World Series will call it a fluke. Obviously, things have to go right for a team to win the World Series, but the 2005 White Sox earned the title.

This season hasn't worked out as people expected. Even the people who predicted the Sox to fail expected them to fail for different reasons. Centerfield has been a huge problem for the last two seasons because the Sox, and everyone else, overestimated what Brian Anderson would bring to the team. A few valuable relievers haven't been able to come close to their production since 2005, and a couple of relievers people around here were happy to dump after 2005 have done better. The differences go on from there. This team is very different from the team that won the World Series, not just in their quality of play, but in their personnel.

Some flukey things have happened to the Sox this year. Some flukey things happened to the Sox in 2005. You play baseball for six months, just about ever day, and you're going to see some flukey things happen. But neither this team or the 2005 team should be regarded as flukes.

YEEEESSS!!! Another post I agree wtih. Now, I have a question. Based on this and what JB98 said, it seems like there really CANNOT be flukes, right? I mean, a team can do a couple things one year that they cannot do another and also the opposite. Presonally, I just think the Sox, this season, did not play to their potentional. However, I do not think 2005 was a fluke. They just played DIFFERNTLY. Does this sound about right?

Daver
08-19-2007, 01:21 PM
This is a fluke.


http://au.fluke.com/NR/rdonlyres/E5A435D5-EBC4-45D9-9518-44CAB51B24E0/0/F922_246p.jpg

JB98
08-19-2007, 01:23 PM
Oh, JB98, what you are saying is that the how a team plays one year has nothing to do with another. I already knoew that, but that is what you are trying to say. Correct?

Based on this, hopefully this WILL happen: The Sox are not playing good at all this season. Next season, we strom right back to win the division and go on to WIN IT ALL. This is how the game of baseball is. Man, this really is making me just soooo dang happy.

I gotta do this: YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!! :D:

Basically, I'm saying that personnel changes greatly from year to year, especially in this era. More than half the roster has changed since we won the World Series. Therefore, the club you see now is not comparable to the team we had two years ago. Apples and oranges.

Times change quickly. There are several teams that had losing seasons in 2006 that are now contending. Look at the club we are playing this weekend, the Seattle Mariners. Where were they at this time last year?

I would guess that next year's club will be significantly different than what we see now. Certainly, by 2009, a lot of players currently on the Sox roster will be distant memories. We are having a very poor year. I do not enjoy watching the 2007 Sox at all, but that does not mean we will be poor next season. In fact, it's not ridiculous at all to think we'll be a winning team in 2008. KW needs to make some shrewd moves, but he's done that before. We'll see if he is up to the challenge.

itsnotrequired
08-19-2007, 01:23 PM
This is a fluke.


http://au.fluke.com/NR/rdonlyres/E5A435D5-EBC4-45D9-9518-44CAB51B24E0/0/F922_246p.jpg

I prefer their electrical multimeters.

A. Cavatica
08-19-2007, 01:30 PM
They backed up the world championship with a 90-win season last year. That would have been good enough to make the playoffs in a lot of other seasons. Just not last year. It was an outstanding two years.

I don't know what team you were watching last year. Despite the 90 wins, it was a pathetic train wreck of a season. The team had no drive, no resilience, and played about six innings a night. Considering the World Series experience, the influx of new talent and the bigger payroll, we all expected a lot better.

2007 is more of the same.

DoItForDanPasqua
08-19-2007, 01:31 PM
This is a fluke.


http://au.fluke.com/NR/rdonlyres/E5A435D5-EBC4-45D9-9518-44CAB51B24E0/0/F922_246p.jpg

And this....

http://www.glenncarr.com/blog/uploaded_images/2006CardsWin-715308.jpg


But, as stated earlier in this thread, the Sox won 99 games and only lost one post season game. That is far from being a fluke.

There have been different champions every year of this decade. So were they all flukes? Players get older, they move to different teams, they get injured.

MCHSoxFan
08-19-2007, 01:35 PM
Basically, I'm saying that personnel changes greatly from year to year, especially in this era. More than half the roster has changed since we won the World Series. Therefore, the club you see now is not comparable to the team we had two years ago. Apples and oranges.

Times change quickly. There are several teams that had losing seasons in 2006 that are now contending. Look at the club we are playing this weekend, the Seattle Mariners. Where were they at this time last year?

I would guess that next year's club will be significantly different than what we see now. Certainly, by 2009, a lot of players currently on the Sox roster will be distant memories. We are having a very poor year. I do not enjoy watching the 2007 Sox at all, but that does not mean we will be poor next season. In fact, it's not ridiculous at all to think we'll be a winning team in 2008. KW needs to make some shrewd moves, but he's done that before. We'll see if he is up to the challenge.

Once again, thank you. I cannot wait for the off-season to see what KW has up his sleeve. Also, I agree, we can be a very good team in 2008. All Kenny has to do is add a few things and almost there.

JB98
08-19-2007, 01:39 PM
I don't know what team you were watching last year. Despite the 90 wins, it was a pathetic train wreck of a season. The team had no drive, no resilience, and played about six innings a night. Considering the World Series experience, the influx of new talent and the bigger payroll, we all expected a lot better.

2007 is more of the same.

Bull****. Look back at the last 25 or 30 years and count the 90-win seasons. There aren't that many, and you want to call 2006 a train wreck? That's foolish. There is absolutely no comparison between last year's team and this year's team. The 2006 Sox would pound lumps on the horse**** squad we are fielding now.

Let's see here:
2006: 90-72 (.556)
2007: 54-68 (.443)

More of the same, my ass. There is no comparison. The 2006 season had a lot of high points, a lot of memorable games. The 2007 season has featured nothing of the sort. Once you get past Buehrle's no-hitter and Jenks' streak, there's been nothing to get excited about this year.

Just because the 2006 season did not meet YOUR expectations does not mean it was a train wreck. Was it disappointing? Sure. But I'm glad I've lived long enough to see a time where a 90-win season is considered a disappointment for the White Sox.

areilly
08-19-2007, 01:40 PM
The thing I try to answer a lot is which year's edition represents the typical Sox team? By which I mean, if someone were to ask me name one season that sums up the White Sox as a franchise and as an organization, what year would I point to?

Based on my lifetime, I narrow it to either the shortened 1994 team or the 2004 team; both were technically good, but not really that good, but in the end it didn't matter because neither didn't make the playoffs - albeit for different circumstances in each case.

TDog
08-19-2007, 01:44 PM
Once again, thank you. I cannot wait for the off-season to see what KW has up his sleeve. Also, I agree, we can be a very good team in 2008. All Kenny has to do is add a few things and almost there.


I read that Mark Buehlre said that one of the reasons he re-signed with the White Sox was that he was impressed with Kenny Williams' vision for the team, speaking specifically about some of the free agents he would pursue in the off-season. I don't know if any of them have signed with their current teams, but it sounds like Williams has a plan that doesn't end with re-signing Buehlre and Jermaine Dye and farm-system call-ups.

DumpJerry
08-19-2007, 02:39 PM
No flukes. The Sox have one of the best records 1990-2006. This year is a perfect storm of injuries, shaky bullpen and bad karma. Next will be different simply if everyone can be healthy.

jabrch
08-19-2007, 02:46 PM
No flukes. The Sox have one of the best records 1990-2006. This year is a perfect storm of injuries, shaky bullpen and bad karma. Next will be different simply if everyone can be healthy.

I hope you are right Dump. I agree with you - and I hope you are right. We don't even really need EVERYONE healthy, just not the "perfect storm" of failures that we had.

jdm2662
08-19-2007, 02:47 PM
No flukes. The Sox have one of the best records 1990-2006. This year is a perfect storm of injuries, shaky bullpen and bad karma. Next will be different simply if everyone can be healthy.

Agreed. The White Sox haven't hit rock bottom since 1989. They are the last time in the MLB to do so. Even the Yankees had rock bottom years more recently than the Sox. Not every year goes your way. Let's see what happens in the offseason.

JermaineDye05
08-19-2007, 02:47 PM
I read that Mark Buehlre said that one of the reasons he re-signed with the White Sox was that he was impressed with Kenny Williams' vision for the team, speaking specifically about some of the free agents he would pursue in the off-season. I don't know if any of them have signed with their current teams, but it sounds like Williams has a plan that doesn't end with re-signing Buehlre and Jermaine Dye and farm-system call-ups.

I'm hoping one of the moves Kenny told Buehrle about was the pursuit of Carl Crawford.

DumpJerry
08-19-2007, 03:14 PM
I hope you are right Dump. I agree with you - and I hope you are right. We don't even really need EVERYONE healthy, just not the "perfect storm" of failures that we had.
If Pods, Erstad and Ozuna had not been on the DL, we'd be feeling very different right now.

I realize "if" is the biggest word in the English language.

jabrch
08-19-2007, 03:43 PM
If Pods, Erstad and Ozuna had not been on the DL, we'd be feeling very different right now.

I realize "if" is the biggest word in the English language.

And Crede and Thome...

Put it this way - I would have lost my house had someone be willing to be me even money that the Sox would not be .500 this year.

But I'd probably make that same bet again next year. This team has too much talent to suck.

A. Cavatica
08-19-2007, 04:38 PM
There is absolutely no comparison between last year's team and this year's team. The 2006 Sox would pound lumps on the horse**** squad we are fielding now.

Let's see here:
2006: 90-72 (.556)
2007: 54-68 (.443)

More of the same, my ass. There is no comparison. The 2006 season had a lot of high points, a lot of memorable games. The 2007 season has featured nothing of the sort. Once you get past Buehrle's no-hitter and Jenks' streak, there's been nothing to get excited about this year.


None of those high points came in the second half. The Sox were a game out on July 6. Then came the Boston series; by August 10th they were 10 games out.

No comparison?

2006, second half: 33-41 (.446)

TCentral
08-19-2007, 07:39 PM
Sadly enough... this is a last place squad and theres not much we can do about it.

Tragg
08-19-2007, 10:20 PM
Neither was a fluke.

It's not that uncommon for teams to turn sour overnight...actually, it's pretty frequent. The team stagnated the 2nd half of last season, and the weaknesses weren't addressed (we made some moves, but not to address the weaknesses - more long term moves). I didn't like the offensive makeup of this team to start the year at all - but I did like the bullpen. 1/2 right, 1/2 wrong.

We're not this bad, but it's not a total mirage either. This team needs young offensive talent.

The baseball philosophies that built the 2005 team have changed:

Offense - from speed, good situational hitting and homers in 2005----> to slower, more singles hitters and more bunting

Defense- in 2006, defense was debased to put a mediocre veteran to the lineup, instead of an offensively struggling youngster.

Relief pitching - a bullpen with pitchers with either a) solid pitching pedigrees or b) high ceiling youngsters in 2005, to 2007 pen of Jenks plus mediocre veteran middle relievers and a couple of low-ceiling young pitchers.

I support making personnel changes. But why change the PHILOSOPHY of the club? I think it's Ozzie and his increased influence over personnel, but that's just me.

soxinem1
08-19-2007, 10:37 PM
This year is not a fluke, this year has been earned and deserved, and the same goes for 2005.

This year should be awake up call that you are not just going to show up and win.

JB98
08-20-2007, 12:43 AM
None of those high points came in the second half. The Sox were a game out on July 6. Then came the Boston series; by August 10th they were 10 games out.

No comparison?

2006, second half: 33-41 (.446)

The Sox swept Detroit in mid-August last year, and it looked like we might be poised to make a run for the division title. The club had a bad September (12-17), plain and simple. You are wrong to say there were no high points the second half of last year.

This year's team isn't even competitive. There is no comparison. Look at the ugly style of play. Look at the lopsided losses. This nonsense was NOT going on last year.