PDA

View Full Version : Jerry Owens


WhiteSox5187
08-17-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm not a fan of his right now and I'm curious what other people think, so here is your chance.

getonbckthr
08-17-2007, 11:27 AM
Since being recalled he has been impressive.

MeteorsSox4367
08-17-2007, 11:42 AM
If he can master the fine art of bunting, I like what I've seen with his base-stealing and defense. With the middle of the lineup the Sox have, if Owens can get on base with regularity next season and we find someone to hit No. 2, the offense could be outstanding.

As long as the center fielder isn't Andy Gonzalez or the Sox try to bring back Mackowiak to play center, I'm content with Owens.

Unless they can sign that certain free agent from Philly...:D:

chisoxmike
08-17-2007, 11:45 AM
There is no reason Owens should be swinging away. He needs to bunt. He can reach base on bad bunts with that speed.

But no, I hope the Sox go elsewhere for our CFer and leadoff man.

oeo
08-17-2007, 11:46 AM
Since being recalled he has been impressive.

Yeah, for the two weeks that he was getting infield singles to get his average up. Out of his 34 hits, 30 are singles. You'd think with his speed he would be able to rack up some doubles and triples, but he can't drive the ball for the life of him.

He has not been impressive. We need to go outside the organization for our 2008 leadoff hitter. And his arm is so weak in center, he shouldn't be playing there either.

Frater Perdurabo
08-17-2007, 12:00 PM
He's shown some nice flashes, but he needs to make several improvements.

First, he needs to learn to bunt for hits and for sacrifices.

Second, he needs to hit the ball with more authority. I don't mean swinging for the fences, but he needs to hit more line drives into the outfield. Then he'll be able to stretch base hits into doubles and doubles into triples.

Third, his arm is only suitable for left field. Consequently, even if he develops into a solid leadoff hitter going into 2008, this means the Sox still would need to find a center fielder who can also swing the bat.

Cuck_The_Fubs
08-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Leadoff? Sure, why not.

Centerfield? I sure hope Kenny can pick one up in the offseason.

voodoochile
08-17-2007, 12:18 PM
Yeah, for the two weeks that he was getting infield singles to get his average up. Out of his 34 hits, 30 are singles. You'd think with his speed he would be able to rack up some doubles and triples, but he can't drive the ball for the life of him.

He has not been impressive. We need to go outside the organization for our 2008 leadoff hitter. And his arm is so weak in center, he shouldn't be playing there either.

Now hold on. Just a few weeks ago someone posted that ALL of his hits were singles. 24/24 or something. That means he actually has started to drive the ball recently or at least take better advantage of his speed.

oeo
08-17-2007, 02:12 PM
Now hold on. Just a few weeks ago someone posted that ALL of his hits were singles. 24/24 or something. That means he actually has started to drive the ball recently or at least take better advantage of his speed.

He had a double on July 24, the dinger on July 28, another double on August 5, and then the triple the other night.

And BTW, that should have read in his 34 hits since the All Star Break. Out of his 51 on the season, he has only 6 XBH. The other two came in his first two games of his first stint up here.

I'd like to see him drive the ball more. The average looks alright for a rookie, but when you look at the hits he's gotten to get to that point, it's not very promising in my eyes. He needs to have better ABs (and take more walks), as well as get some good wood on the ball before he's in our plans.

SBSoxFan
08-17-2007, 02:18 PM
He had a double on July 24, the dinger on July 28, another double on August 5, and then the triple the other night.

And BTW, that should have read in his 34 hits since the All Star Break. Out of his 51 on the season, he has only 6 XBH. The other two came in his first two games of his first stint up here.

I'd like to see him drive the ball more. The average looks alright for a rookie, but when you look at the hits he's gotten to get to that point, it's not very promising in my eyes. He needs to have better ABs (and take more walks), as well as get some good wood on the ball before he's in our plans.

Can we count turning 15 of those hits into doubles and 1 into a triple?

getonbckthr
08-17-2007, 03:04 PM
With his speed I just want him on base cause he can turn singles into doubles and triples.

schmitty9800
08-17-2007, 03:41 PM
With his speed I just want him on base cause he can turn singles into doubles and triples.

Too bad he can't get on base.

I don't want a leadoff hitter who only has a .290 OBP and who frequently has multi-strikeout games. If we're rebuilding hardcore in 2008 I wouldn't mind giving Owens a roster spot, but even then he'd be a pretty mediocre option.

getonbckthr
08-17-2007, 03:46 PM
Realistically who is our leadoff options for 08? Now if we steal Furcal from the LAD for Contreras fine, but odds are we wont. So that leaves us with what? Erstad/Pods for 40 games each? Jesus Christ himself coming back from Philly? Mike Cameron or Dave Roberts, no thank you.

PatK
08-17-2007, 03:59 PM
He should take some batting instruction from Lance Johnson.

DumpJerry
08-17-2007, 05:24 PM
I would vote too soon to tell. However not for the reason stated in the poll, rather for the simple fact we don't know what off-season moves KW will make to start speculating right now the 2008 roster.

roadrunner
08-17-2007, 05:56 PM
I initially voted yes but after two seconds of thought I changed my mind. I would MUCH prefer next year's lead off hitter to more of a proven player. I don't mind having Owens in the lineup - perhaps hitting 2 or 9. He can bunt well and he would be nice as a 2nd lead off hitter type. If he isn't leading off, that means someone else is in the lineup with great speed which would mean the entire lineup is more dangerous top to bottom.

santo=dorf
08-17-2007, 06:12 PM
Yeah, for the two weeks that he was getting infield singles to get his average up. Out of his 34 hits, 30 are singles. You'd think with his speed he would be able to rack up some doubles and triples, but he can't drive the ball for the life of him.

He has not been impressive. We need to go outside the organization for our 2008 leadoff hitter. And his arm is so weak in center, he shouldn't be playing there either.
:worship:









:o:

santo=dorf
08-17-2007, 06:14 PM
Can we count turning 15 of those hits into doubles and 1 into a triple?
No because those stolen bases don't knock in runs like a double or a triple.

getonbckthr
08-17-2007, 07:52 PM
I initially voted yes but after two seconds of thought I changed my mind. I would MUCH prefer next year's lead off hitter to more of a proven player. I don't mind having Owens in the lineup - perhaps hitting 2 or 9. He can bunt well and he would be nice as a 2nd lead off hitter type. If he isn't leading off, that means someone else is in the lineup with great speed which would mean the entire lineup is more dangerous top to bottom.
And who are you thinking of here? Who fits the mold of a leadoff hitter that will be available and plays either LF, CF or SS? And pending on Crede LF might be occupied as well cause Fields is here to stay whether at 3rd or LF.

JB98
08-17-2007, 08:08 PM
I voted no. I think Owens belongs in LF with that weak arm. I also think he looks like a No. 9 hitter, moreso than a leadoff man.

schmitty9800
08-18-2007, 12:06 AM
And who are you thinking of here? Who fits the mold of a leadoff hitter that will be available and plays either LF, CF or SS? And pending on Crede LF might be occupied as well cause Fields is here to stay whether at 3rd or LF.
I'd ideally want Rowand, as long as it's not the .320 OBP Rowand from 2005-2006. Leadoff hitters don't need to steal bases to be effective.

getonbckthr
08-18-2007, 12:08 AM
I'd ideally want Rowand, as long as it's not the .320 OBP Rowand from 2005-2006. Leadoff hitters don't need to steal bases to be effective.
As a Leadoff hitter? Are you high?

schmitty9800
08-18-2007, 12:16 AM
As a Leadoff hitter? Are you high?
He's got a .380 OBP this year, I'd kill for anyone on the Sox hitting leadoff to approach that. Speed at the top of the lineup is overrated, especially when your lineup is built around three high strikeout power hitters.

getonbckthr
08-18-2007, 12:44 AM
He's got a .380 OBP this year, I'd kill for anyone on the Sox hitting leadoff to approach that. Speed at the top of the lineup is overrated, especially when your lineup is built around three high strikeout power hitters.
aaron Rowand should be nowhere near this team in 08. He is no where near the 10-12 million he will get in the market. And before anyone says it, yes he will get that much with Byrnes get 10 per year.

Rounding_Third
08-18-2007, 10:37 AM
He needs to work on bunting and slapping down on the outside pitch. If he continues to progress this year and in the off-season and makes the team next spring, he'll allow KW to spend JR's money elsewhere. You know our payroll isn't going to increase very much so Owens's success could be extremely important.

soxinem1
08-18-2007, 10:57 AM
I voted no. I see a lot of Lance Johnson in Owens, and that is both good and not so good. The arms, speed, and defense are very similar, but like Lance, Owens is a hacker, which is why Lance never really worked out as a lead-off man.

With Owens not having much power, I can't see him developing many other skills as a lead-off man to justify him in that position.

As a number nine, or if he makes consistent contact, number two might be his best positions in the order.

The big key will be if he can have the stamina to be a regular.

jabrch
08-18-2007, 11:15 AM
I really don't care if all of his hits are singles.

His .288 OBP is much more a problem than his XBH. If he had a .350 OBP and ZERO XBH, he'd be a huge asset to this team leading off.

Granted - if I had a choice between a single or a double, I'd take the double. But escaping from spreadsheetville, a leadoff hitter who gets on base, and steals bases is VERY valuable when making the league minimum. Since being called up, Owens has been hitting .269/.305. That's what isn't good enough. He's a rookie and he is developing - that's a far cry from the .170/.214 he was hitting when he got sent down.

I'd say yes - Owens should be penciled into the lineup next year in CF. I'd even be OK penciling him at leadoff. But if that's the case, it should leave us ample money to spend on improving ourselves at other positions (corner OF, MI)

JB98
08-18-2007, 02:14 PM
I really don't care if all of his hits are singles.

His .288 OBP is much more a problem than his XBH. If he had a .350 OBP and ZERO XBH, he'd be a huge asset to this team leading off.

Granted - if I had a choice between a single or a double, I'd take the double. But escaping from spreadsheetville, a leadoff hitter who gets on base, and steals bases is VERY valuable when making the league minimum. Since being called up, Owens has been hitting .269/.305. That's what isn't good enough. He's a rookie and he is developing - that's a far cry from the .170/.214 he was hitting when he got sent down.

I'd say yes - Owens should be penciled into the lineup next year in CF. I'd even be OK penciling him at leadoff. But if that's the case, it should leave us ample money to spend on improving ourselves at other positions (corner OF, MI)

I would be OK with Owens if you told me he was going to play LF and bat ninth. I'd like to see the Sox make a strong run at one of the free-agent CFs. If not Hunter or Jones, then make a play for Rowand or Cameron.

This guy just isn't a good enough hitter to be at the top of the lineup. Put him in the nine hole. When he does get on, he can use his speed to distract the pitcher and give the top of our order an advantage.

jabrch
08-18-2007, 02:55 PM
If not Hunter or Jones, then make a play for Rowand or Cameron.

I wouldn't give any of them the type of $$$ that they will want. 10+ for Row/Cam & close to $15m for hunter/Jones seems steep when Owens is starting to look good (since July 1)


This guy just isn't a good enough hitter to be at the top of the lineup.

Today - I agree with you. But there is no reason to believe he doesn't have the potential to be better. Owens has done it at the minor league level (.294/.362) and has skills that do translate well at the next level.

You are right JB - if he was to repeat his 2007 numbers, he shouldn't lead off. But if you are making bets for next year and are going to put a prospect up here, Owens in CF is not the worst thing in the world.

Owens has a lot of Juan Pierre in him. I know the folks from Spreadsheetville think that is an insult, but Pierre is a career .300/.350 guy who averages 55+ SBs. There is room on a championship ballclub for that at the top of the order regardless of his XBH.

JB98
08-18-2007, 05:42 PM
I wouldn't give any of them the type of $$$ that they will want. 10+ for Row/Cam & close to $15m for hunter/Jones seems steep when Owens is starting to look good (since July 1)




Today - I agree with you. But there is no reason to believe he doesn't have the potential to be better. Owens has done it at the minor league level (.294/.362) and has skills that do translate well at the next level.

You are right JB - if he was to repeat his 2007 numbers, he shouldn't lead off. But if you are making bets for next year and are going to put a prospect up here, Owens in CF is not the worst thing in the world.

Owens has a lot of Juan Pierre in him. I know the folks from Spreadsheetville think that is an insult, but Pierre is a career .300/.350 guy who averages 55+ SBs. There is room on a championship ballclub for that at the top of the order regardless of his XBH.

Maybe if we give him a year in the nine spot in 2008, he will develop into a guy we can feel comfortable putting in the leadoff spot in 2009.

Let's say we put Owens in CF. OK, who plays left? If we decide Owens is the answer, we still have another outfield spot than needs filled. And that will cost money.

I'm not against putting one young player in the outfield next year. If that's Owens, cool. But if we've got two young players out there with JD, I won't feel like we have a legitimate chance in the division.

jabrch
08-18-2007, 06:22 PM
But if we've got two young players out there with JD, I won't feel like we have a legitimate chance in the division.

I try to avoid blanket statements like this. Because the truth is, Sweeney or BA, along with Owens and JD COULD be a very good OF for 10.6mm. It COULD also suck. What it would definitely be is inexpensive enough to leave us a lot of money to spend on other areas. Let's assume a 100mm payroll. If only 11 mm is in the OF and about 50mm is in our rotation, that leaves 40 mm for a bullpen, an IF and a bench. PK eats up 15mm - so that's 35mm. But that leaves a lot of options. Add in Richar at 2B potentially, and you have a lot of money free.

Would it be a great OF, coming into the season? NOPE

But it wouldn't be an OF that is completely incapable of winning and it wouldn't be an OF that was precluded from ever being great.

JB98
08-18-2007, 06:40 PM
I try to avoid blanket statements like this. Because the truth is, Sweeney or BA, along with Owens and JD COULD be a very good OF for 10.6mm. It COULD also suck. What it would definitely be is inexpensive enough to leave us a lot of money to spend on other areas. Let's assume a 100mm payroll. If only 11 mm is in the OF and about 50mm is in our rotation, that leaves 40 mm for a bullpen, an IF and a bench. PK eats up 15mm - so that's 35mm. But that leaves a lot of options. Add in Richar at 2B potentially, and you have a lot of money free.

Would it be a great OF, coming into the season? NOPE

But it wouldn't be an OF that is completely incapable of winning and it wouldn't be an OF that was precluded from ever being great.

The reason I make statements like that is I have a tremendous lack of faith in our farm system. I have NO CONFIDENCE whatsoever that the young players coming up from triple-A can play at a level that will help us win a championship. I'm not asking them to be All-Stars, but they need to be able to hit .270 or .280, play their position and mix in some big hits. Fields is the only one in this current crop of youngsters who seems close to being able to do that.

If we have JD with Owens and either Sweeney, Anderson or Fields in the outfield next year, I will look at 2008 as a developmental year for the organization. Maybe that's what we need to do to get back to a championship level. But if that's the case, I would prefer not to hear KW bluster about how we're "going for it." If the organization says, hey, we need to take a step back and retool this year, I can live with that. I just don't want to be sold a line of bull****. I don't like it when people try to fool me.

Save McCuddy's
08-18-2007, 09:16 PM
I voted no. I see a lot of Lance Johnson in Owens, and that is both good and not so good. The arms, speed, and defense are very similar, but like Lance, Owens is a hacker, which is why Lance never really worked out as a lead-off man.

If you see a lot of Lance Johnson in him, how could you possibly vote no?

If I thought that Owens was going to be a .290 career hitter with better than 300 swipes I'd be ecstatic.

As bad as Jerry's numbers look now, a comparison can be drawn to 1 dog's first two partial seasons. Here's hoping that Owens breaks out after the 200 AB mark the way Johnson did! If there's a note of optimism, Jerry is a much better base stealer at this point in his career than Lance.

soxinem1
08-18-2007, 10:51 PM
If you see a lot of Lance Johnson in him, how could you possibly vote no?

If I thought that Owens was going to be a .290 career hitter with better than 300 swipes I'd be ecstatic.

As bad as Jerry's numbers look now, a comparison can be drawn to 1 dog's first two partial seasons. Here's hoping that Owens breaks out after the 200 AB mark the way Johnson did! If there's a note of optimism, Jerry is a much better base stealer at this point in his career than Lance.

Because the question also posed Owens as a lead-off man. I don't see him having the skills, as Lance didn't either, to be a lead-off man. Most of his career here, One Dog was not a lead off guy.

I believe Johnson had about a .330 career OBP. That will not get it done, if you are looking for a real upgrade at this spot in the order.

lostfan
08-19-2007, 12:33 PM
He's got a .380 OBP this year, I'd kill for Speed at the top of the lineup is overrated,
What???????

schmitty9800
08-21-2007, 07:47 PM
What???????
Way to butcher the quote; I said that speed at the top of your lineup is overrated, which it is. OBP is what leads to scoring runs.