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rowand33
08-16-2007, 10:28 AM
From rotoworld:

Manager Ozzie Guillen said Wednesday that Gavin Floyd will spend the remainder of the season in the bullpen unless the White Sox trade a starter.

"We are going with Floyd in the bullpen," Guillen said. "I don't want to play games with this kid, starting one day and you don't know the next day. I want him to prepare mentally to be out there every day and know his role on the club."
Source: Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/512482,CST-SPT-soxnt16.article)

Sounds like he's pretty much out of our plans.

Hopefully he'll show he can excel out of the bullpen and fill a hole for us next season.

PatK
08-16-2007, 10:35 AM
Floyd kind of reminds me of a right handed version of Rich Hill with a much better fastball.

With both of them, if they don't have their curve working, they're getting rocked.

Tragg
08-16-2007, 10:35 AM
Who's the 5th starter? Contreras? He pitched well out of the pen. They won't raise his trade value - his trade value is pick up most of his contract and someone will take him.

I'd leave Floyd in the rotation and see what he has.

balke
08-16-2007, 10:41 AM
I think we've seen what Floyd has for the most part. I'd rather see the 20 million dollars the Sox spent turn things around, then to play around with the rookie who's lights out one day, and BP pitcher the next.

voodoochile
08-16-2007, 10:44 AM
Who's the 5th starter? Contreras? He pitched well out of the pen. They won't raise his trade value - his trade value is pick up most of his contract and someone will take him.

I'd leave Floyd in the rotation and see what he has.

If Contreras doesn't get traded they will want to use him as a starter next year. He makes WAY too much money to be a reliever.

It sounds like most of the problems with him have been mental - missing his arm slots and causing his pitches to rise which leads to him getting hammered. If he can correct that (and the recent stints in the bullpen may have already done so) then he's a viable starter and much too valuable to waste in the pen. The Sox need to find that out immediately and not cross their fingers and hope for next year to work itself out.

Tragg
08-16-2007, 09:57 PM
If Contreras doesn't get traded they will want to use him as a starter next year. He makes WAY too much money to be a reliever.

You certainly wouldn't pay $20 mill up front to a reliever. But today, excepting a trade, Contreras' salary is a SUNK cost. There's nothing we can do about it. So you make decisions about where Contreras should play without considering the $20 million.
If you start him and he blows, you have a bad starter and you're out $20 million.
If you pitch him in relief and he pitches well, you have a decent reliever and you're out $20 million.
No matter what happens, that $20 mill is gone.

Unless you can trade him. I don't see what Williams expects to get, but perhaps he can split the salary 50/50 with some team. And what if he blows up in Seattle? Then what?


As for Floyd, he's had 4 starts. I don't think that's a definitive opportunity; I think he throws some really good pitches. And at least last time, he worked with the backup catcher and a lot of backups in the field. (He just made some mistakes...but he threw a lot of good pitches. He's gone Starter-pen-starter-pen...and Ozzie says he doesn't want to jerk him around.

soxinem1
08-17-2007, 12:24 AM
Floyd kind of reminds me of a right handed version of Rich Hill with a much better fastball.

With both of them, if they don't have their curve working, they're getting rocked.

:?: You sure about that? Not only does Hill throw harder, but he is a F-A-R better pitcher than Floyd. Hill will challenge hitters, move them off the plate, and attack them. It is not easy for me to say that, as I am definitely no cub fan.

I agree about the curves, but what starting pitcher isn't in the same situation?

FedEx227
08-17-2007, 12:28 AM
:?: You sure about that? Not only does Hill throw harder, but he is a F-A-R better pitcher than Floyd. Hill will challenge hitters, move them off the plate, and attack them. It is not easy for me to say that, as I am definitely no cub fan.

I agree about the curves, but what starting pitcher isn't in the same situation?

Exactly. Hill is light years better than Floyd.

Also about the curves part, any pitcher with a great curveball is going to be worthless without it. Look at guys like Barry Zito.

cws05champ
08-17-2007, 10:58 AM
Exactly. Hill is light years better than Floyd.

Also about the curves part, any pitcher with a great curveball is going to be worthless without it. Look at guys like Barry Zito.

Hill is a better pitcher at this point than Floyd, by far. The difference between them(besides throwing with a different arm) is Floyd works his curve off his fastball(which is harder than Hill's). Hill seems to work his fastball off his curve. And both of their curves are different, Hill is more 11-6, while Floyd's, at it best, is a tighter curve.

The biggest difference is the mound presence in my opinion. Keep in mind that Hill is 3 years older than Floyd....when Hill was 24 was was still in AA with similar #'s to Floyd's Minor league numbers. Because Floyd was a Top 3 pick overall he is considered a bust so far.

Huisj
08-17-2007, 11:15 AM
Hill is a better pitcher at this point than Floyd, by far. The difference between them(besides throwing with a different arm) is Floyd works his curve off his fastball(which is harder than Hill's). Hill seems to work his fastball off his curve. And both of their curves are different, Hill is more 11-6, while Floyd's, at it best, is a tighter curve.

The biggest difference is the mound presence in my opinion. Keep in mind that Hill is 3 years older than Floyd....when Hill was 24 was was still in AA with similar #'s to Floyd's Minor league numbers. Because Floyd was a Top 3 pick overall he is considered a bust so far.

And Rich Hill posted a solid ERA of 9 in 24 innings that he threw in 2005 as a 25 year old. Floyd is clearly better since he too is now 25 and his ERA through 24 innings is only 8.5.

Ok, kidding aside, I'm just saying it's hard to judge a guy from 24 innings. Hill also had an ERA of over 9 through the first month of 2006 before getting sent down. When he came back up for the last two months, he suddenly was no longer one-pitch Rich.

Lip Man 1
08-17-2007, 11:16 AM
I honestly has concerns about Floyd from the first interview I saw with him at spring training.

It was either the first day or the next one when Dan Roan from WGN-TV spoke with him. He asked him a softball question about the 5th starter role.

Floyd's answer was so wishy-washy that I immediately thought to myself that this guy doesn't appear to have the self confidence needed to succeed at this level.

One thing about a pro athlete, 99% of them have no doubt they are going to do well. Floyd's answer to Dan's question about 'taking control' of the 5th starter spot went along the lines of, (in a quiet voice) 'well all I can do is try and we'll see what happens...'

I'm not saying that a player needs to be arrogant about it but in practically every interview I've seen along these lines (and I've done a tad myself...) the answer is along the lines of, (in a confident voice,) 'yes I'm going to pitch great to take the job...' or 'I'm going to pitch well enough to make it very hard for Ozzie to decide otherwise...'

Floyd didn't say anything close to that and his pitching to me also reflects a lack of confidence, a killer instinct that's needed at this level.

Lip

Medford Bobby
08-17-2007, 04:27 PM
I honestly has concerns about Floyd from the first interview I saw with him at spring training.

It was either the first day or the next one when Dan Roan from WGN-TV spoke with him. He asked him a softball question about the 5th starter role.

Floyd's answer was so wishy-washy that I immediately thought to myself that this guy doesn't appear to have the self confidence needed to succeed at this level.

One thing about a pro athlete, 99% of them have no doubt they are going to do well. Floyd's answer to Dan's question about 'taking control' of the 5th starter spot went along the lines of, (in a quiet voice) 'well all I can do is try and we'll see what happens...'

I'm not saying that a player needs to be arrogant about it but in practically every interview I've seen along these lines (and I've done a tad myself...) the answer is along the lines of, (in a confident voice,) 'yes I'm going to pitch great to take the job...' or 'I'm going to pitch well enough to make it very hard for Ozzie to decide otherwise...'

Floyd didn't say anything close to that and his pitching to me also reflects a lack of confidence, a killer instinct that's needed at this level.

Lip


Honestly I agree, if pitchers today had half the "I own the plate" mentality that Don Drysdale or Bob Gibson had.......