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View Full Version : 8/15 Postgame - my first postgame thread...


Tragg
08-15-2007, 11:32 PM
I'm honored

Solid game by MB.

O struggles again

Righty pitches for Oakland, but still: No Thome, No AJ, and my favorite player bats fifth.

JB98
08-15-2007, 11:35 PM
Our offense stinks when Thome and AJ are both resting the same game.

Really, our offense stinks period.

thomas35forever
08-15-2007, 11:36 PM
Sigh, another visit to Oakland, another series loss. When does football season start?

JB98
08-15-2007, 11:41 PM
Sigh, another visit to Oakland, another series loss. When does football season start?

Only 43 games left to suffer through.

hi im skot
08-15-2007, 11:43 PM
Darin Erstad can't get a clutch hit to save his life.

Tough luck for Buehrle.

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-16-2007, 12:08 AM
blah

soxfan123
08-16-2007, 12:22 AM
no replies??? wow. I am really starting to like Fields and Owens.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2007, 06:15 AM
Darin Erstad can't get a clutch hit to save his life.

Watch it. Don't you dare criticize a .400 hitter.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2007, 06:17 AM
Righty pitches for Oakland, but still: No Thome, No AJ.

Our offense stinks when Thome and AJ are both resting the same game.

Why did Ozzie sit them against a RHP? Do AJ and Thome blow against the A's starter?

Or is it just because Ozzie makes the ****ing lineups? :rolleyes:

Frontman
08-16-2007, 08:30 AM
Watch it. Don't you dare criticize a .400 hitter.

And a "grinder." To do so is tatamount to having to turn in your Sox hat and churros.

Iguana775
08-16-2007, 08:56 AM
LMAO. This thread is going to be LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

Thome_Fan
08-16-2007, 09:00 AM
Man, our offense really needs to push it to the limit.

Come on, fhqwgds.

SBSoxFan
08-16-2007, 09:04 AM
Well, pretty soon Fields and Owens will be the team leaders in batting average. I'm glad I voted for the offense in that other thread! :angry::whiner:

roadrunner
08-16-2007, 09:29 AM
Why does a DH that hasn't played every game need a rest? It must be because he's old, broken down and hasn't done a thing since the all star break last year. Or maybe they're still trying to pull his head out of his ass after getting picked off second Tues night.

palehozenychicty
08-16-2007, 09:44 AM
Why does a DH that hasn't played every game need a rest? It must be because he's old, broken down and hasn't done a thing since the all star break last year. Or maybe they're still trying to pull his head out of his ass after getting picked off second Tues night.

The answer is in your post. I love Thome, but he's done. His body just won't allow him to be a consistently great player anymore.

kitekrazy
08-16-2007, 02:08 PM
Why does a DH that hasn't played every game need a rest? It must be because he's old, broken down and hasn't done a thing since the all star break last year. Or maybe they're still trying to pull his head out of his ass after getting picked off second Tues night.

Makes you wonder why they didn't keep Thomas but I guess he's broken down more. Only from hindsight the Rowand trade didn't work for the best of the Sox.

CubsfansareDRUNK
08-16-2007, 06:29 PM
blah

Tragg
08-16-2007, 06:37 PM
We get the lead runner on in the 9th, so Ozzie sends Konerko to the bench, bunts his 5 hitter (knowing that Dye would be walked). Guillen affirmatively takes the bat out of the hands of the middle of his order to set up 2 his hackers instead: Erstad and Uribe. It's a joke.

ode to veeck
08-16-2007, 06:53 PM
1st series in Oakland in many years that I didn't even make a single game. So much for Ode being the Oakland jinx as the Sox get swept outta town at the Coliseum this afternoon on Suzuki's walk-off without me

UserNameBlank
08-16-2007, 06:54 PM
We get the lead runner on in the 9th, so Ozzie sends Konerko to the bench, bunts his 5 hitter (knowing that Dye would be walked). Guillen affirmatively takes the bat out of the hands of the middle of his order to set up 2 his hackers instead: Erstad and Uribe. It's a joke.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Oh well, Ozzie can do no wrong, remember?

This **** doesn't mean much during a season where we suck so bad, but that type of managing isn't going to work if we have a contender out there next year. Team record aside, I'd say this is easily Ozzie's worst year as far as making decisions on plays since he was hired. Maybe it has something to do with his bench coach? It needs to stop whatever the cause.

Jollyroger2
08-16-2007, 06:56 PM
God this blows...I'm in Northern Va and just realized the Sox have a worse % than my NL whipping boys, the freaking Nationals...they have a payroll about $70 million below the Sox and have a better record...unbelieveable.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2007, 07:31 PM
Well the good news is that the bullpen went 24 days without blowing a game. (wow! almost an entire month!)

The bad news is that the same bullpen has now blown and lost, 14 games where they had the lead, with the ball in their hands in the 7th inning or later.

Lip

Lip Man 1
08-16-2007, 07:33 PM
Jolly:

It's not automatically the size of the payroll but how it is distributed. The Sox have no balance in the lineup, practically none at all. Just swing for the fence hackers like Uribe, Thome ect.

Take that 100 million and redistribute it, some to get some bullpen arms, some to get a leadoff hitter, some to get some speed and I guarantee you they don't have the same record.

Lip

chisoxmike
08-16-2007, 07:39 PM
Well the good news is that the bullpen went 24 days without blowing a game. (wow! almost an entire month!)

The bad news is that the same bullpen has now blown and lost, 14 games where they had the lead, with the ball in their hands in the 7th inning or later.

Lip



Wasn't last year the number of bullpen blown saves (that cost us the division title) 12?

Looks like Kenny was wrong.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2007, 08:11 PM
Take that 100 million and redistribute it, some to get some bullpen arms, some to get a leadoff hitter, some to get some speed and I guarantee you they don't have the same record.

I too think the Sox need an improved bullpen, a leadoff hitter, better overall team speed, and some players who can hit for average and get on base.

The trouble is, from what high-priced players would you take the money to redistribute it?

Buehrle? NTC. Garland? Weakens the rotation. Vazquez? Ditto. Contreras? Who takes him unless the Sox pay some of his salary?

Konerko? Many Sox fans would mutiny if he was dealt. AJ? Who catches?

Thome? With the $ Philly sent, he's not that expensive, so trading him doesn't free up much. Plus, who would take him?

None of these are realistic options. Getting rid of hackers like Erstad and Cintron saves a negligible amount of money.

So, here are the "options" that don't require a trade partner:

Non-tender Crede and save $5 million,

Decline Uribe's option and save $5 million,

Let Dye leave and save $7 million,

Let Pods leave and save $3 million.

That means there's $20 million to obtain THREE outfielders and a shortstop - one of whom must be able to lead off - plus the needed bullpen help. And that assumes Richar and Fields are in the everyday lineup next year.

How does KW fill all those holes for $20 million?

JB98
08-16-2007, 08:13 PM
I too think the Sox need an improved bullpen, a leadoff hitter, better overall team speed, and some players who can hit for average and get on base.

The trouble is, from what high-priced players would you take the money to redistribute it?

Buehrle? No trade clause.

Garland? Not a good idea to weaken the pitching staff.

Vazquez? Ditto.

Contreras? Who will take him unless the Sox pay some of his salary?

Konerko? Many Sox fans would mutiny if he was dealt.

Thome? With the $ Philly sent, he's not that expensive, so trading him doesn't free up much. Plus, who would take him?

AJ? Who catches?

None of these seem like realistic options. Obviously getting rid of hackers like Erstad and Cintron saves a negligible amount of money. Here are the "options" that don't require a trade partner:

Non-tender Crede and save $5 million,

Decline Uribe's option and save $5 million,

Let Dye leave save $7 million,

Let Pods leave and save $3 million.

That means there's $20 million to obtain THREE outfielders and a shortstop - one of whom must be able to lead off - plus the needed bullpen help. And that assumes Richar and Fields are in the everyday lineup next year.

How does KW fill those holes for $20 million?

I hate to say it, but I think Garland is the trade bait. He's not going to give the Sox a discount to stay like Buehrle did, and he's only signed through 2008. His value will become less and less as the 2008 season progresses. This offseason might be the time to sell.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2007, 08:24 PM
I hate to say it, but I think Garland is the trade bait. He's not going to give the Sox a discount to stay like Buehrle did, and he's only signed through 2008. His value will become less and less as the 2008 season progresses. This offseason might be the time to sell.

Great. I don't need to convice you or anyone else that dealng Garland turns the team's lone strength - starting rotation - into a major question mark.

So we dump Crede, Pods, Dye and Uribe, and trade Garland.

Now there's $30 million to fill 3 OF spots and shortstop (one of whom must be able to lead off), AND bullpen help AND find a #2/#3 starter.

I realize that trading Garland means the Sox get players in return. So what young, inexpensive, solid hitting, solid defending OF or SS - or top-notch young starting pitcher - can the Sox get for a starter with one year remaining before free agency? We know that the Red Sox will only offer Willy Mo Pena and a Single-A reliever. :rolleyes:

Lip Man 1
08-16-2007, 08:28 PM
Two points:

1. Frater, I guess all we can hope for is that with the number of holes on the club, the payroll goes up next season. I agree with you I don't see any other way to fill all the gaps without creating more holes in other spots.

2. Regarding the 2006 bullpen, they blew and lost nine games where they had the lead in the 7th inning or later with the ball in their hands.

Lip

Grzegorz
08-16-2007, 08:28 PM
Take that 100 million and redistribute it, some to get some bullpen arms
Lip

KW did get bullpen arms this year. You mean get some good bullpen arms. It seems middle relief is the hardest commodity to measure in the game today.

Lip Man 1
08-16-2007, 08:35 PM
Grez:

That he did although many argued even before the season started that they were untested, had a history of control issues in the minor leagues or never played with a franchise that was expected to win anything.

Hopefully Kenny has learned and the 3rd time is a charm in 2008.

Lip

JB98
08-16-2007, 08:39 PM
Great. I don't need to convice you or anyone else that dealng Garland turns the team's lone strength - starting rotation - into a major question mark.

So we dump Crede, Pods, Dye and Uribe, and trade Garland.

Now there's $30 million to fill 3 OF spots and shortstop (one of whom must be able to lead off), AND bullpen help AND find a #2/#3 starter.

I realize that trading Garland means the Sox get players in return. So what young, inexpensive, solid hitting, solid defending OF or SS - or top-notch young starting pitcher - can the Sox get for a starter with one year remaining before free agency? We know that the Red Sox will only offer Willy Mo Pena and a Single-A reliever. :rolleyes:

It might take more than one year to fix this, unless payroll gets an additional bump. If Garland is dealt, it's hard to imagine winning in 2008, unless we get an unexpectedly large bounty in such a trade.

Somehow, KW has to keep the rotation intact and fill all the other holes for us to win in 2008. It's a tall order. I'm glad it's his problem, and not mine.

Jollyroger2
08-16-2007, 09:10 PM
Jolly:

It's not automatically the size of the payroll but how it is distributed. The Sox have no balance in the lineup, practically none at all. Just swing for the fence hackers like Uribe, Thome ect.

Take that 100 million and redistribute it, some to get some bullpen arms, some to get a leadoff hitter, some to get some speed and I guarantee you they don't have the same record.

Lip

No matter how it's sliced, there's no way I can defend it.... or look at it objectively...what does it say then about the funds? That a group of owners in their FIRST season of owning an MLB team did a better job managing their paltry funds than a team with a massive payroll and recent WS ring? And I know, the NL is about as watered-down and mediocre across the board as a league can be...the Sox's 4-14 record vs. the NL notwithstanding.

You look at the Nationals lineup and you're like huh? Their bullpen, starting pitchers, and lineup were scraped together like collections of old car parts at the start of the season, and despite every "expert" predicting they'd win 40-50 games at best, right now they have a better record than the team that won the WS two years ago. Is it the GM? The manager?

Man this bites. I'll always be a fan of the Sox but this is pretty frustrating. 2005 was great but I never figured they'd go into the tank so quickly.

FarWestChicago
08-16-2007, 09:11 PM
Well the good news is that the bullpen went 24 days without blowing a game. (wow! almost an entire month!)

The bad news is that the same bullpen has now blown and lost, 14 games where they had the lead, with the ball in their hands in the 7th inning or later.

Lip

The most important reason the Sox need to win the Series again is so you will shut the **** up, Lip. You are back to having too much fun. When you are happy, it means the Sox are sucking. :(:

russ99
08-16-2007, 09:16 PM
I wonder what that pre-game team meeting called by Kenny was about... and how peeved KW must be that it did nothing.

I'm getting annoyed with all the bad, quick 0-2, no-result at-bats we've been giving away of late with the likes of Gonzalez, Richar and yes, even Owens. I know it's a good idea to play these guys this season and get a feel if they can contribute in 2008, but at what point do we sacrifice any chance to win because of that?

Ozzie should be pinch-hitting for those guys close and late rather than guys who might actually look like they belong in a Major League batters box - like Konerko. It's not developing players, Oz, it's called giving up.

Frater Perdurabo
08-16-2007, 09:20 PM
It might take more than one year to fix this, unless payroll gets an additional bump. If Garland is dealt, it's hard to imagine winning in 2008, unless we get an unexpectedly large bounty in such a trade.

Somehow, KW has to keep the rotation intact and fill all the other holes for us to win in 2008. It's a tall order. I'm glad it's his problem, and not mine.

I hypothesize KW had hoped to make a run at Ichiro this offseason. Now that that train has sailed :tongue:, I'm not sure there's much out there on the free agent market that would really address the Sox roster holes within existing budget parameters, or even with a modest payroll increase. Certainly FA OFs like Hunter, Jones, Rowand and Cameron would be upgrades over the current LF/CF situation, but signing any one of them eats up a major chunk of payroll, and none of them is a legitimate option to lead off.

Even in a deeppink fantasy where Rowand accepts a way below-market deal just to come back to the Sox, there's no guarantee the Sox would get the Rowand of 2004 and 2007, instead of the Rowand of 2005 and 2006. I'd love a 2004 or 2007 version of Rowand on the Sox, but it's a 50/50 crapshoot with him. But it's a crapshoot with Hunter, Cameron and Jones, too. I think the best case scenario that we Sox fans can hope for is for KW to acquire a relatively unknown youngster who explodes out of the gate as a hitter. Or that Anderson and Sweeney do so. :redface:

I really haven't liked any reasonable trade proposal involving Garland.

Tragg
08-16-2007, 09:27 PM
I wonder what that pre-game team meating called by Kenny was about... and how peeved KW must be that it did nothing.

.


Re Williams meeting...

"So it's not all about batting average, and they need to understand that that walk that they take, that eight-pitch at-bat, that 10-pitch at-bat, wearing the pitcher down is just as important to the team's chances as that base hit..." http://whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070816&content_id=2152048&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws


But is that the philosophy of Ozzie Guillen, the man who loves free swingers? Is that the coaching philosophy of Greg Walker? Just today, Ozzie set things up to get to give the RBI chances to 2 free swingers, Erstad and Uribe.

Things get stranger and stranger.

MCHSoxFan
08-16-2007, 09:38 PM
Kenny and crew need to have an off-season just as good, maybe even better, than the 2004-2005 off-season. Speed, pitching, and people who can get on base and actually score in the SAME inning!!! I am a just a little :angry:. I am also excited to see what will happen. Something GOOD Betta happen!!! :mad: