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View Full Version : Magglio Ordonez: what a comeback or what Ozzie said when he left the Sox


flo-B-flo
08-14-2007, 11:30 PM
I guess he's recovered from that knee. .356 leading the league and two homers in the same inning the other day. Tonight another homer. What's your view?

itsnotrequired
08-14-2007, 11:32 PM
KW made the right move. The Tigers gambled and to date have won. Good for them.

jdm2662
08-14-2007, 11:35 PM
I guess he's recovered from that knee. .356 leading the league and two homers in the same inning the other day. Tonight another homer. What's your view?

If he is on the team in 2005, there would be no World Series championship. It was well worth it.

ChiSoxGirl
08-14-2007, 11:38 PM
KW made the right move. The Tigers gambled and to date have won. Good for them.

Agreed. If KW keeps Magglio, the team doesn't end up with Jermaine Dye. Or in other words, they don't end up with the 2005 World Series MVP. It's not even up for discussion.

itsnotrequired
08-14-2007, 11:38 PM
If he is on the team in 2005, there would be no World Series championship. It was well worth it.

You can never say for certain but it would be highly unlikely.

KW had no real choice, what with Maggs saying no doctors could look at his knee. In 2005, Maggs sucked anyway and it looked like Detroit was hosed. A year later and he is walking-off for a pennant win and a year after that he is looking at a batting title.

Like I said, good for them but KW made the right move.

Irishsox1
08-14-2007, 11:55 PM
Once Maggs got Boras as his agent he was gone. End of story.

WhiteSox5187
08-15-2007, 12:11 AM
I have no regrets in letting Mags go.

Foulke You
08-15-2007, 01:57 AM
Magglio Ordonez was one of my favorite White Sox players of all time while he was here but letting him walk to the Tigers in the offseason after '04 was the right move. We didn't know the status of that knee and Maggs ended up having a medicore 2005 season for the Tigers. The Tigers are getting their money's worth out of Maggs now and good for them but some people tend to forget that we used the Magglio/Carlos Lee money to sign Dye, Pierzynski, Iguchi, Hermanson, and El Duque. We also got Scotty Pods and Luis Vizcaino in the Lee trade. If the Sox keep Maggs after '04 they wouldn't have had the resources to get those other players. Without the resources to acquire those players, the Sox don't get this:
http://chicagoist.com/attachments/chicago_benjy/2006_05_sports_sox_ws_trophy.jpg

It was well worth it.:cool:

TDog
08-15-2007, 02:28 AM
You really don't know how things would have worked out if the Sox had resigned Ordonez. They probably wouldn't have signed Dye, as he wouldn't have been available when Ordonez went on the DL. You don't know who would have been playing right, and you don't know how he would have done.

But I've been alive for half a century, and the White Sox have only won one World Series in that time. They not only made the postseastseason for the fourth time in my lifetime, but they went 11-1 when they got there, with huge help from Jermaine Dye.

I'm happy with the way things worked out in 2005. I wouldn't trade that for a chance to have a better lineup in 2007.

Frater Perdurabo
08-15-2007, 07:37 AM
I wouldn't trade the 2005 World Series championship season for anything (well, I'd trade it for TWO World Series victories :tongue: ).

But I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. In a deeppink fantasy world, it would have been nice if the Sox could have afforded to keep Ordonez and could have acquired AJ, Iguchi and El Duque before 2005, and still traded Lee for Pods and Vizcaino, and signed Dye as a backup plan because of Ordonez having been injured.
:tongue:

I sure would like to have Magglio batting third and playing left field for the Sox right now.

DumpJerry
08-15-2007, 08:14 AM
It was impossible to sign Mags after '04. Borass would not let the Sox see the medical records before making the arbitration decision following his mysterious Euro surgery. There was only one, I repeat, ONE, team that talked contract with Mags. The Tigers. Boras had made Mags toxic.

Borass got the Kitties to sign Mags to a Pudge-like contract: If he did not spend X number of days on DL because of the knee in the first year of the contract, the entire contract was guaranteed. Without hindsight, only a fool would take that risk without full medical information. Mags then went on the DL for most of '05 with a previously undisclosed "hernia" which nade sure that he would not go on the DL for the knee.

Going into 2006, the contract still looked like a very risky deal for the Tigers.

Frontman
08-15-2007, 08:26 AM
Maggs being on fire now just gives me a reason to appreciate 2005 all the more. He could of remained here, and we wouldn't of ever gotten a WS that year.

I for one am glad to see him, as well as Frank and Aaron and others from the Sox do well.

I just want Maggs to go 0-12 in a 3 game series against the Sox. :wink:

SOXSINCE'70
08-15-2007, 08:28 AM
It was the right move. The Sox offered him a 5 year,60 mil contract
AFTER he'd blown out his knee in 2004.He turned it down.He's the toothless
Tiggers' problem now.Good riddance!!

itsnotrequired
08-15-2007, 08:59 AM
It was the right move. The Sox offered him a 5 year,60 mil contract
AFTER he'd blown out his knee in 2004.He turned it down.He's the toothless
Tiggers' problem now.Good riddance!!

Doesn't seem like the Tigers are having a problem with a guy who leads the AL in doubles, AVE, OBP, is second in RBI, SLG and OPS and is third in hits...

PatK
08-15-2007, 11:25 AM
Funny, Kenny gets penned as the idiot for not re-signing him and going on to win a World Series.

What about all the other GMs who didn't even bother to take a look or make him an offer?

Walker29
08-15-2007, 11:57 AM
o-eeeeee-o...GLAD TO SEE HIM GO!

jabrch
08-15-2007, 12:08 PM
Magglio was a complete douchebag. Between his "it's not about money" and then turning down an offer because it wasn't enough bit and then him not allowing the Sox doctors to look at anything, the Sox did exactly the right thing by letting him go.

There's no way I'd have signed a guy who went to Austria for a surgery and wouldn't let our staff even look at records.

bluestar
08-15-2007, 01:17 PM
I don't think Maggs wanted to be a White Sox player anymore. It wasn't a matter of the Sox not re-signing him; he was not going to sign with the Sox regardless of the circumstances. I think this is evident based on the fact that he turned down the contract offer during a time when his future as a player was at least somewhat in doubt. He was willing to gamble that his injury wasn't career ending and hope some team was willing to give him the contract Detroit eventually gave him.

I don't harbor any resentment toward Maggs, although the circumstances did significantly change my view of him as a player and person. As others have pointed out, the circumstances led to the Sox winning the WS in 2005, and I seriously doubt that would have happened with Maggs on the team and some of the people acquired because he left not on the team.

balke
08-15-2007, 01:21 PM
Some of you forget he decided not only to leave the Sox after keeping his medical records a secret, but to sign with a division rival. Maggs doesn't like you the Sox fan. Why such attachment?

SBSoxFan
08-15-2007, 01:24 PM
Didn't Mags get hurt shortly AFTER declining the Sox' offer?

Frontman
08-15-2007, 01:25 PM
Magglio was a complete douchebag. Between his "it's not about money" and then turning down an offer because it wasn't enough bit and then him not allowing the Sox doctors to look at anything, the Sox did exactly the right thing by letting him go.


"Whenever a player says 'it's not about the money;' its exactly about the money. Right now, the sox are down by two; if PK hits a home run, they'll be down by one."

:farmer

balke
08-15-2007, 01:57 PM
Didn't Mags get hurt shortly AFTER declining the Sox' offer?

The offer was on the table most believed. It was reported when the injury happened that Ozzie whispered to him on the field that you better sign that contract (most likely as a joke).

Many were saying the Sox were leaving the same money on the table, so long as they could view his medical records. I was thrilled they let him go, the Sox had too many holes to fill to be spending 15 million dollars on an injured player.

SBSoxFan
08-15-2007, 03:27 PM
The offer was on the table most believed. It was reported when the injury happened that Ozzie whispered to him on the field that you better sign that contract (most likely as a joke).

Many were saying the Sox were leaving the same money on the table, so long as they could view his medical records. I was thrilled they let him go, the Sox had too many holes to fill to be spending 15 million dollars on an injured player.

That's what I was basing it on, as I had heard the same thing. Except I thought Ozzie was purported to say that he should have signed the contract.

balke
08-15-2007, 03:34 PM
That's what I was basing it on, as I had heard the same thing. Except I thought Ozzie was purported to say that he should have signed the contract.


Most like it was purported. I've just never used that word before. :tongue: I feel like the deal was still on the table for Maggs for like 2 days though if he did want to sign it. That's how I vaguely remember things.

LITTLE NELL
08-15-2007, 03:35 PM
How many World Series rings does Ordonez have. None, cased closed.
P.S. Carlos Lee will never come close to a World Series, hes a loser. Would not be surprised to see him with the Cubs before his career is over.

balke
08-15-2007, 03:37 PM
Both of these players are great, I just personally never liked Maggs, and I feel like the Sox got something more important for the team than CLee in a leadoff hitter. Its unfortunate all these big boppers came through at the exact same time, if only they could've been spread out a little more.

Juice16
08-16-2007, 11:48 AM
I really don't know how anyone can say the Sox would not have won the Series with Magglio on the team. Nobody will ever know, it is pure speculation, yet people say it so matter-of-fact around here. I am no fan of Maggs after the way he handled his departure, and I'm a big Dye fan, so I'm not a Maggs lemming here. The World Series MVP could have been anybody else just as anyone at anytime throughout the season picked that team up.

spiffie
08-16-2007, 11:55 AM
I really don't know how anyone can say the Sox would not have won the Series with Magglio on the team. Nobody will ever know, it is pure speculation, yet people say it so matter-of-fact around here. I am no fan of Maggs after the way he handled his departure, and I'm a big Dye fan, so I'm not a Maggs lemming here. The World Series MVP could have been anybody else just as anyone at anytime throughout the season picked that team up.
I think its not so much the idea we couldn't win with Maggs as that we couldn't win with the combination of Maggs/Willie Harris/Ben Davis/Danny Wright (or Arnie Munoz, or even Brandon McCarthy) all having starting roles, which is the likely result if we sign Maggs to a huge long term deal.

balke
08-16-2007, 12:07 PM
I really don't know how anyone can say the Sox would not have won the Series with Magglio on the team. Nobody will ever know, it is pure speculation, yet people say it so matter-of-fact around here. I am no fan of Maggs after the way he handled his departure, and I'm a big Dye fan, so I'm not a Maggs lemming here. The World Series MVP could have been anybody else just as anyone at anytime throughout the season picked that team up.

I know that we have a W.S. title, and that Maggs doesn't. The Sox didn't have the budget to pay Maggs and rebuild. Maggs would've sat out 80 games in 2005. That season would've been dead in the water. The Sox would've missed out on a lot of the talent in the free agent pool they got for that season.

areilly
08-16-2007, 01:02 PM
How many World Series rings does Ordonez have. None, cased closed.
P.S. Carlos Lee will never come close to a World Series, hes a loser. Would not be surprised to see him with the Cubs before his career is over.

You can't be so prematurely dismissive, especially considering how well Magglio's playing these days and that his current team took the AL pennant last year - and could very well do it again this year.

As for Carlos Lee, we'll see what happens. I wouldn't be shocked to see Houston trade him to an AL team that needs a DH and from there, anything's possible.

And by the way, our own Jim Thome has never won a World Series, either. Does that make him a loser? Robin Ventura? Carlton Fisk? Ted Williams? Ernie Banks? History is riddled with outstanding players that never went all the way; I think you need different criteria for loserdom.

Frontman
08-16-2007, 02:00 PM
And by the way, our own Jim Thome has never won a World Series, either. Does that make him a loser? Robin Ventura? Carlton Fisk? Ted Williams? Ernie Banks? History is riddled with outstanding players that never went all the way; I think you need different criteria for loserdom.

Technically, Frank Thomas never "won" one either, as he didn't get to play (which I agree is the biggest shame of it all. Frank's career will be marked by the fact that he has a ring, without ever taking a single at bat during the World Series.)

I refuse to hold the idea that without a championship ring, you can downplay an athelete's worth. Branching to other sports, who is a better QB, Jim McMahon or Dan Marino? Is Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson "losers" since they played in the Jordan era?

Foulke You
08-16-2007, 02:16 PM
I refuse to hold the idea that without a championship ring, you can downplay an athelete's worth. Branching to other sports, who is a better QB, Jim McMahon or Dan Marino? Is Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson "losers" since they played in the Jordan era?
David Robinson won 2 rings with the Spurs btw, but I still get your point and agree that it shouldn't diminish a great player who played on non-championship teams. Fisk never won a ring and is still a HOFer and one of the greatest catchers of all time.

kitekrazy
08-16-2007, 03:31 PM
Funny, Kenny gets penned as the idiot for not re-signing him and going on to win a World Series.

What about all the other GMs who didn't even bother to take a look or make him an offer?

Yep, his first year with the Tigers was not a Boras type contract. I'm happy the Maggs is putting up great numbers. I hate to see any great career cut short by injuries. The Tigers took a chance and it worked out for them. The Sox took a chance on Dye and it worked out for them.

I don't miss Maggs because he never seemed to show up in the big games when they played the Twins in July and August.

balke
08-16-2007, 03:39 PM
He does now though, yikes these #'s are scary. link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?playerId=3728&teamId=9)

kitekrazy
08-16-2007, 03:40 PM
Technically, Frank Thomas never "won" one either, as he didn't get to play (which I agree is the biggest shame of it all. Frank's career will be marked by the fact that he has a ring, without ever taking a single at bat during the World Series.)

I refuse to hold the idea that without a championship ring, you can downplay an athelete's worth. Branching to other sports, who is a better QB, Jim McMahon or Dan Marino? Is Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, and David Robinson "losers" since they played in the Jordan era?

The Sox went without an official DH until they got Everett. Somes games you would see Timo as the D.H.

2005 was a unique season. Going without a D.H. and losing 2 closures.

Frontman
08-16-2007, 07:00 PM
David Robinson won 2 rings with the Spurs btw, but I still get your point and agree that it shouldn't diminish a great player who played on non-championship teams. Fisk never won a ring and is still a HOFer and one of the greatest catchers of all time.

You know, I hit send, I went was doing some work around the house, and then went, "Hey, didn't Robinson win....?"

:)

Thanks for the catch.