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View Full Version : *Official* "Good Comeback Falls Just Short" 8/11/07 Postgame Thread


Viva Medias B's
08-11-2007, 10:09 PM
The grand slam proved to be the rally killer, but it was great and should give us momentum for tomorrow's game.

ndgt10
08-11-2007, 10:10 PM
How do you take a fastball right down the cock with 2 strikes?

jdm2662
08-11-2007, 10:11 PM
Nice to see Erstad just look at a fastball right down the middle... Of course, when he bats fifth, I guess you should expect to lose...

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2007, 10:11 PM
Darin Erstad with two of the best ever fielders choices and a strikeout to boot!

Seriously, this was a great outing by Contreras. Owens and Richar make a nice tag team. Might Fields have a shot at ROY? Doesn't he lead the AL in homers among rookies?

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:11 PM
Cut him
Just cut him.
That's pitiful
One softball right down the middle; and while strike 3 was a better pitch, you have to swing at it.

Good think AJ and Konerko didn't pick up a bat in PH duty.

A. Cavatica
08-11-2007, 10:12 PM
Nice to see Erstad just look at a fastball right down the middle... Of course, when he bats, I guess you should expect to lose...

Fixed it for you.

JB98
08-11-2007, 10:12 PM
Contreras pitched well in relief, and Fields is proving that he deserves a starting spot (somewhere) on the 2008 team.

I can't believe we lost this game without a plate appearance from either Paulie or AJ in the ninth. If one of those two makes the last out, I could deal with the loss a little better.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:13 PM
Cut him
Just cut him.
That's pitiful
One softball right down the middle; and while strike 3 was a better pitch, you have to swing at it.

Good think AJ and Konerko didn't pick up a bat in PH duty.

Erstad stays on this team; he's a great role player. Outstanding defensively at two different positions.

Why was this game lost? Because of the starting pitching.

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2007, 10:14 PM
Despite the fact that Floyd was terrible in two innings, I still want him to get the ball every fifth day for the rest of the season.

Keep Contreras in long relief for now.

A. Cavatica
08-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Erstad stays on this team; he's a great role player. Outstanding defensively at two different positions.

Why was this game lost? Because of the starting pitching.

Erstad is a great role player, but our idiot manager thinks he's a starter.

JermaineDye05
08-11-2007, 10:16 PM
Cut him
Just cut him.
That's pitiful
One softball right down the middle; and while strike 3 was a better pitch, you have to swing at it.

Good think AJ and Konerko didn't pick up a bat in PH duty.

Yes lets blame Erstad for this loss, for he is truly the one at fault in this game.

Give me a break people, you act as if he did everything wrong in this game. He made 2 great plays at first, and yes he struck out a couple times but he didn't lose the game for us. The game was lost when Gavin gave up the GS to Betancourt.

I seriously don't get a lot of people on this board, a loss like this and the first person they turn to for blame is Erstad *****.

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2007, 10:17 PM
I really hope Crede comes back at full strength next season. I want his glove at third base as much as possible. But I want Fields to get 500-600 plate appearances next year, too. I think he could get that if he DHs against LHP, and rotates between left and third against RHP.

Noneck
08-11-2007, 10:18 PM
I truly never saw what the Skip sees in in Erstad. Yesterday leading him off instead of Pod and today batting him 5th. How could anyone look at one right down the pipe? He should be just a defensive replacement, not positioned to be an intricate part of the offense.

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:18 PM
Erstad stays on this team; he's a great role player. Outstanding defensively at two different positions.

Why was this game lost? Because of the starting pitching.

Yea Floyd had a tough game.
The team mustered 2 runs until the 9th.

Hes a little old to play late inning defensive replacement when you have a lead. And that's all he can do. Erstad can't hit. Ozzie bats him in premium hitting positions game after game after game (1st, 2nd, 5th - it's a joke). Ozzie refuses to pinch hit for him. As such, he's a huge anchor.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:20 PM
With the fifth spot is wide open I'd like to see Masset get some starts if at all possible.

oeo
08-11-2007, 10:21 PM
The grand slam proved to be the rally killer, but it was great and should give us momentum for tomorrow's game.

Thome should have sent the first pitch he got, way out of there.

I don't understand keeping Erstad in there. Konerko, please? Even though Konerko probably isn't going to do **** now anyway.

Thome and/or Konerko need to get out of their funks, like right now. We can't have our 3 and 4 hitters going 0-fer every night. They're both killing this offense right now.

Frater Perdurabo
08-11-2007, 10:21 PM
[COLOR=Teal]Yes lets blame Erstad for this loss, for he is truly the one at fault in this game.

[COLOR=Black]Give me a break people, you act as if he did everything wrong in this game. He made 2 great plays at first, and yes he struck out a couple times but he didn't lose the game for us. The game was lost when Gavin gave up the GS to Betancourt.

Gavin deserves nothing but scorn and the full blame for this loss.

That doesn't mean that Erstad doesn't blow at the plate, though. Yes, he's a great defensive player. But once Fields hit the grand slam, it was inexcusable for Ozzie NOT to pinch hit for Erstad. His OBP is low enough to make us know that he's not likely to get on base, and he's not much of a candidate to hit a homer, either.

Lip Man 1
08-11-2007, 10:23 PM
I guess Floyd has returned to 'normal...'

Lip

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:24 PM
I seriously don't get a lot of people on this board, a loss like this and the first person they turn to for blame is Erstad *****.

He's crowding out young talent, he's never done a thing for this team and he's treated by management like he's a konerko or dye. That's why I don't like him. (not him personally, just his baseball presence on this team).

How many games do you think the Sox will win with a player who has no power at all playing 1B and batting 5th?

rowand33
08-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Good things:

Fields is awesome.
We know Floyd is terrible so we don't have to bother with him in 08.
Contreras has looked great in relief.

Bad things:
Erstad (why is he on the team? can't we at least get an organizational minor leaguer for him? Andy Gonzalez can backup Paulie at 1st)

Floyd is so bad that it's downright pathetic. Try to convert him to a reliever for the rest of the year.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:28 PM
Yea Floyd had a tough game.
The team mustered 2 runs until the 9th.

Yeah, but Floyd gave up seven. I understand the audition for the fifth spot in the rotation but to blame this game on Erstad is a stretch.


Hes a little old to play late inning defensive replacement when you have a lead. And that's all he can do. Erstad can't hit. Ozzie bats him in premium hitting positions game after game after game (1st, 2nd, 5th - it's a joke). Ozzie refuses to pinch hit for him. As such, he's a huge anchor.

Erstad is thirty-three years old; that is not too old. He's shown he's a plus defender in the outfield and tonight he has shown he a high quality defensive first baseman.

If he accepts a backup role he should be on this roster.

oeo
08-11-2007, 10:29 PM
Bad things:
Erstad (why is he on the team? can't we at least get an organizational minor leaguer for him? Andy Gonzalez can backup Paulie at 1st)

Floyd is so bad that it's downright pathetic. Try to convert him to a reliever for the rest of the year.

Those are your only bad things? How about Thome continuing his suckage? I can't even tell you the last time he's even reached base.

And how is converting Gavin to a reliever going to change anything? His problem is that curve ball. When he doesn't get it over, he gets in trouble. So whether he's a reliever or starter, it's not going to matter, if he can't get the curve ball over, he will get hammered. When he does get it over (like we saw in Detroit), he can be very good. I don't know what the hell is problem is, but I'm hoping that he can learn to control it. If not, he's trash.

Brian26
08-11-2007, 10:30 PM
I truly never saw what the Skip sees in in Erstad. Yesterday leading him off instead of Pod and today batting him 5th. How could anyone look at one right down the pipe? He should be just a defensive replacement, not positioned to be an intricate part of the offense.

Erstad also left the bases loaded earlier in the game when we were down 7-2. I had a feeling that might come back to haunt us at the end. Every run counts.

Still, I have no idea why Ozzie is batting Erstad 5th, and I'm suprised PK didn't get a chance to pinch hit in the 9th. Erstad's got to find a way to get on base in that situation, though, knowing AJ's left bat is on deck to face Putz.

oeo
08-11-2007, 10:30 PM
He's crowding out young talent, he's never done a thing for this team and he's treated by management like he's a konerko or dye. That's why I don't like him. (not him personally, just his baseball presence on this team).

How many games do you think the Sox will win with a player who has no power at all playing 1B and batting 5th?

For the last time, what ****ing young talent is he crowding out? If we had a ton of young talent, Erstad wouldn't even have been signed. Look at our AAA team right now, we don't have a single position prospect playing.

Alright, Erstad should be gone next year. He shouldn't have been batting 5th (should have been Fields, but then we wouldn't even have a 7-6 game to begin with). But...there's not all this 'young talent' that you keep talking about.

And people keep talking about Erstad, but let's not ignore that Thome continues to leave a ton of runners on base. He needs to get out of this funk, or the offense is going to continue to struggle.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:32 PM
He's crowding out young talent,

Who?

How many games do you think the Sox will win with a player who has no power at all playing 1B and batting 5th?

None when your bullpen is one of the worst in recent memory. The pen put the nail in the 2007 Chicago White Sox coffin, not guys like Erstad.

kittle42
08-11-2007, 10:37 PM
Who?



None when your bullpen is one of the worst in recent memory. The pen put the nail in the 2007 Chicago White Sox coffin, not guys like Erstad.

Tragg would apparently prefer playing guys in Charlotte who are hitting .240 to playing a major league baseball player.

Yes, Erstad should be gone next year. No, he is not "blocking" anyone right now.

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:38 PM
For the last time, what ****ing young talent is he crowding out? If we had a ton of young talent, Erstad wouldn't even have been signed. Look at our AAA team right now, we don't have a single position prospect playing.

Alright, Erstad should be gone next year. He shouldn't have been batting 5th (should have been Fields, but then we wouldn't even have a 7-6 game to begin with). But...there's not all this 'young talent' that you keep talking about.

One example now is Gonzalez....Ozzie says he wants Gonzalez to get work at 1B. Well? He's going to be the super utility guy next year, so play him.

Earlier in the year he crowded out Anderson and Sweeney...yea I know injuries all the way around.

JB98
08-11-2007, 10:40 PM
One example now is Gonzalez....Ozzie says he wants Gonzalez to get work at 1B. Well? He's going to be the super utility guy next year, so play him.

Earlier in the year he crowded out Anderson and Sweeney...yea I know injuries all the way around.

Is Gonzalez going to be the utility guy next year? I would like to think we could find somebody better.

oeo
08-11-2007, 10:41 PM
One example now is Gonzalez....Ozzie says he wants Gonzalez to get work at 1B. Well? He's going to be the super utility guy next year, so play him.

So you're going to sacrifice defense for similar offense? Erstad is a Gold Glove first baseman, and made a play today that Konerko never would have came close to. But you'd rather watch Andy Gonzalez, who can't hit worth **** and has spent about two innings at first base?

Earlier in the year he crowded out Anderson and Sweeney...yea I know injuries all the way around.

Sweeney got the playing time when he was up. He was up because Pods was on the DL. He got sent back down because he wasn't ready. As for Anderson, IMO, he's not very good. I still don't think he was ready this year, though some around here would argue it to the grave that he was.

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Yeah, but Floyd gave up seven. I understand the audition for the fifth spot in the rotation but to blame this game on Erstad is a stretch.


Erstad is thirty-three years old; that is not too old. He's shown he's a plus defender in the outfield and tonight he has shown he a high quality defensive first baseman.

If he accepts a backup role he should be on this roster.
Maybe it's the manager I should be frustrated with because the manager refuses to treat him like a backup player...he plays him like a front-line hitter. It's a joke because he can't hit. As a late inning defensive replacement, he also would need to come at minimum salary.

I'm not blaming a game on Erstad or anyone. My concern is next year anyway. I want too see players developed. I'm not going to beat on Floyd cause he's a rookie and I think he has some good pitches; but throws too many stinkers.

JorgeFabregas
08-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Sweeney is back in Charlotte's lineup, folks. He could be up. Bourgeois also comes to mind. They don't play 1B, though.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:42 PM
Is Gonzalez going to be the utility guy next year? I would like to think we could find somebody better.

I know he can't touch him defensively but is Gonzalez a better hitter than Erstad?

I am not so sure...

soxinem1
08-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Couldn't AJ, Paulie, or even Uribe PH in the ninth? What happened to 'Win or DIE Trying?'

Erstad is becoming a big ****ing joke. Are they trying to build his AB totals so he looks more appealing to other teams? *****!!!!!

JB98
08-11-2007, 10:43 PM
So you're going to sacrifice defense for similar offense? Erstad is a Gold Glove first baseman, and made a play today that Konerko never would have came close to. But you'd rather watch Andy Gonzalez, who can't hit worth **** and has spent about two innings at first base?



Sweeney got the playing time when he was up. He was up because Pods was on the DL. He got sent back down because he wasn't ready. As for Anderson, IMO, he's not very good. I still don't think he was ready this year, though some around here would argue it to the grave that he was.

Not to mention, the goal at the start of the year was to win now, not develop talent. Hence, it made sense to stick with veterans. Obviously, the situation has changed, and younger players are rightfully getting more ABs at this stage of the season.

oeo
08-11-2007, 10:44 PM
Maybe it's the manager I should be frustrated with because the manager refuses to treat him like a backup player...he plays him like a front-line hitter. It's a joke because he can't hit. As a late inning defensive replacement, he also would need to come at minimum salary.

I'm not blaming a game on Erstad or anyone. My concern is next year anyway. I want too see players developed. I'm not going to beat on Floyd cause he's a rookie and I think he has some good pitches; but throws too many stinkers.

And yet you want Andy Gonzalez starting everyday...:?:

Since coming back from the DL, Erstad has been a backup player. He's played one game in center, but mostly first and the corners. He hasn't played everyday, he's been platooning. So he got a couple of games, big whoop...Ozzie likes to play his bench. He always has, and he always will.

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:44 PM
Thome should have sent the first pitch he got, way out of there.

He saw several, including some from the starter, that he would have obliterated were he on his game.

JB98
08-11-2007, 10:45 PM
I know he can't touch him defensively but is Gonzalez a better hitter than Erstad?

I am not so sure...

IMO, no, Gonzalez is not a better hitter than Erstad.

To me, Ozuna becomes the utility guy when he comes back. Gonzalez belongs in AAA. Maybe we can bring back Mackowiak if the price is right this offseason. Why not Bourgeois as a utility guy? He hasn't had a big-league chance yet, but he might be a better hitter than Gonzalez.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 10:50 PM
IMO, no, Gonzalez is not a better hitter than Erstad.

To me, Ozuna becomes the utility guy when he comes back. Gonzalez belongs in AAA. Maybe we can bring back Mackowiak if the price is right this offseason. Why not Bourgeois as a utility guy? He hasn't had a big-league chance yet, but he might be a better hitter than Gonzalez.

I see Bourgeois as a less experienced Ozuna. Can you ave two of the same type of player on the same bench? This seems to be overkill.

Two for the price of one: Erstad gives you plus defense in the outfield and at first base.

Noneck
08-11-2007, 10:51 PM
but let's not ignore that Thome continues to leave a ton of runners on base. He needs to get out of this funk, or the offense is going to continue to struggle.

Its not a funk it is reality. Here is a guy that for almost 2 years that hits below .200 vs. lefties. But will not change his style vs. lefties. If he would slap a few to left , he wouldn't be shifted and would get some hits to right. And I've heard it here before, He is a power hitter and has done that for his whole career. Well if he doesn't take the time and effort to adjust, he should become a platoon DH because dumping him is impossible.

Tragg
08-11-2007, 10:51 PM
And yet you want Andy Gonzalez starting everyday...:?:

He's not 32 years old and a 10 year vet. He's had 3 months of ML experience. That's the difference.
Yea, you can justify playing Erstad tonight; you probably did the same thing last night and the night before. Thing is, he's playing every night and 4/5 times in a primo hitting position (when he can't hit a lick). Globally, that's hard to justify. No pinch hitting - except the guy you just pounded hitting for Richar who had some pretty good ABs tonight. Go figure.

I realize there's not much of a bench left (and there wasn't a real good hitting bench to start the year).

I don't know if Gonzalez is any good or not. But it appears he's our utility infielder for next year. Play him.

JB98
08-11-2007, 10:57 PM
I see Bourgeois as a less experienced Ozuna. Can you ave two of the same type of player on the same bench? This seems to be overkill.

Two for the price of one: Erstad gives you plus defense in the outfield and at first base.

The main thing is we need someone who can handle SS. People rag on Uribe, including me. But when Juan doesn't play, we see how bad we are at the position otherwise.

If I had to choose between Erstad and Pods, I'd pick Pods as a fourth outfielder. Just because he provides a different dynamic offensively. Erstad is a plus defender no matter where you put him, but I question our need for a backup 1B. Konerko's going to give you 150 games.

Grzegorz
08-11-2007, 11:02 PM
The main thing is we need someone who can handle SS. People rag on Uribe, including me. But when Juan doesn't play, we see how bad we are at the position otherwise.

Try to trade for Jack Wilson... I do not want to see the Chicago White Sox open the 2008 season with Uribe at SS.

If I had to choose between Erstad and Pods, I'd pick Pods as a fourth outfielder. Just because he provides a different dynamic offensively. Erstad is a plus defender no matter where you put him, but I question our need for a backup 1B. Konerko's going to give you 150 games.

A poor defense can lose games...

I'd go with Erstad because of his defensive ability. Can you imagine a tired PK in the middle of the lineup during a long pennant drive? With a tired bat he'll probably hit into more double plays.

PK more than any other on this team needs the rest. Therefore a high quality reserve first baseman is a must.

JB98
08-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Try to trade for Jack Wilson... I do not want to see the Chicago White Sox open the 2008 season with Uribe at SS.



A poor defense can lose games...

I'd go with Erstad because of his defensive ability. Can you imagine a tired PK in the middle of the lineup during a long pennant drive? With a tired bat he'll probably hit into more double plays.

PK more than any other on this team needs the rest. Therefore a high quality reserve first baseman is a must.

PK has always given us 150 games in the past. I'm not concerned about him at all. He hasn't had near the injuries of Thome, Dye or Crede in his career, so I don't understand the statement that he needs the rest "more than any other" on this team.

FarWestChicago
08-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Erstad stays on this team; he's a great role player. Outstanding defensively at two different positions.

Why was this game lost? Because of the starting pitching.

Yes lets blame Erstad for this loss, for he is truly the one at fault in this game.

Give me a break people, you act as if he did everything wrong in this game. He made 2 great plays at first, and yes he struck out a couple times but he didn't lose the game for us. The game was lost when Gavin gave up the GS to Betancourt.

I seriously don't get a lot of people on this board, a loss like this and the first person they turn to for blame is Erstad *****.
The Rabid Erstad Haters are basically psychotic; there really isn't another term to use. They have no contact with reality anymore. If a Sox pitcher gives up 20 runs while Erstad is on the bench it will be his fault. Blaming Erstad for everything makes them feel cool and brilliant. Good for them. It might behoove them to try to have an occasional rational thought. But, that's just my opinion. :smile:

MisterB
08-11-2007, 11:24 PM
Try to trade for Jack Wilson... I do not want to see the Chicago White Sox open the 2008 season with Uribe at SS.

So you want to replace Uribe with someone who's really no better offensively or defensively, is 2 years older, and will cost more than the guy we already have? (and give up talent to boot) :?:

tacosalbarojas
08-11-2007, 11:28 PM
Couldn't AJ, Paulie, or even Uribe PH in the ninth? What happened to 'Win or DIE Trying?'

Erstad is becoming a big ****ing joke. Are they trying to build his AB totals so he looks more appealing to other teams? *****!!!!!
AJ was on deck to PH for Cintron should Erstad have gotten on to try to win it. IMO didn't matter. Putz gave up his one HR for the month to Fields. No one has been touching this guy all season and for Fields to do it was special. Anything else off of Putz would have been gravy and FWIW Paulie is 2-10 lifetime off of Putz, AJ 1-5.

JB98
08-11-2007, 11:39 PM
AJ was on deck to PH for Cintron should Erstad have gotten on to try to win it. IMO didn't matter. Putz gave up his one HR for the month to Fields. No one has been touching this guy all season and for Fields to do it was special. Anything else off of Putz would have been gravy and FWIW Paulie is 2-10 lifetime off of Putz, AJ 1-5.

No doubt, there's a strong chance we would have lost anyway. I just would have liked to see one of those two guys get a shot.

And I really don't dislike Erstad. I liked the fact that he was the CF over Anderson at the start of the year. He's not a pariah or a non-contributor. I just think he should have been PH'ed for in that spot.

FedEx227
08-11-2007, 11:41 PM
The Rabid Erstad Haters are basically psychotic; there really isn't another term to use. They have no contact with reality anymore. If a Sox pitcher gives up 20 runs while Erstad is on the bench it will be his fault. Blaming Erstad for everything makes them feel cool and brilliant. Good for them. It might behoove them to try to have an occasional rational thought. But, that's just my opinion. :smile:

He's in no way to blame for the loss, but can we just please stop playing him? That's all most of us "RABID HATERS" want. Try out Sweeney, see what Gonzalez can give you.

I've yet to hear a "RATIONAL" answer from the "RATIONAL" people for what reason there is at this point in the season to play Erstad and bat him in primo spots of the lineup. Don't you want to see what you have with these other guys or are we living in delusion world and think we actually have a chance at this division?

With that being said, I'll ask it for the 5,000th time without getting an answer.

What is the point of playing Erstad over Sweeney/Gonzalez/Rogowski or any other minor leaguers/prospects at this point in the season?

JB98
08-11-2007, 11:49 PM
He's in no way to blame for the loss, but can we just please stop playing him? That's all most of us "RABID HATERS" want. Try out Sweeney, see what Gonzalez can give you.

I've yet to hear a "RATIONAL" answer from the "RATIONAL" people for what reason there is at this point in the season to play Erstad and bat him in primo spots of the lineup. Don't you want to see what you have with these other guys or are we living in delusion world and think we actually have a chance at this division?

With that being said, I'll ask it for the 5,000th time without getting an answer.

What is the point of playing Erstad over Sweeney/Gonzalez/Rogowski or any other minor leaguers/prospects at this point in the season?


Rogowski? He's not a legit MLB prospect anymore. Sweeney just came back off the DL yesterday, and Gonzalez sucks. If Gonzalez were in the lineup batting fifth, people would be complaining about that too.

psyclonis
08-11-2007, 11:53 PM
Looking at our 5-9 today I'm surprised it was even this close... this division is up for grabs and it seems like no one wants it. (The Sox should be on a 9 game streak.) :angry: I hope we never see Floyd again till next year.

Martinigirl
08-11-2007, 11:53 PM
Erstad is a great role player, but our idiot manager thinks he's a starter.

Just like he overused Rob Mackowiak.

And I don't dislike DE, but I don't understand Ozzie not using Paulie or AJ to pinch hit in the ninth. This is the second time this week Ozzie did something like this. On Wednesday, he did not use Thome as a pinch hitter during during the 9th, 10th, 11th or 12th innings, yet he let Andy Gonzalez hit. How does that make any sense? What is he waiting for exactly?

Noneck
08-11-2007, 11:56 PM
I've yet to hear a "RATIONAL" answer from the "RATIONAL" people for what reason there is at this point in the season to play Erstad and bat him in primo spots of the lineup. Don't you want to see what you have with these other guys or are we living in delusion world and think we actually have a chance at this division?



The scary part is I think the last 2 lineups were made thinking we did have a chance at our division. And Erstad yesterday lead off instead of Pod and today batted 5th instead of Fields.

soxinem1
08-11-2007, 11:58 PM
Try to trade for Jack Wilson... I do not want to see the Chicago White Sox open the 2008 season with Uribe at SS.




A poor defense can lose games...

I'd go with Erstad because of his defensive ability. Can you imagine a tired PK in the middle of the lineup during a long pennant drive? With a tired bat he'll probably hit into more double plays.

PK more than any other on this team needs the rest. Therefore a high quality reserve first baseman is a must.


Honestly, Wilson would not be much help. He does nothing really well anymore, at least Uribe can put a charge into a few and has the gun.

But one guy who intrigues me is Clint Barnes on COL. A couple years ago he looked like a keeper but sort of fizzed a bit.

He has hit a dead end in COL and could probably be had for nothing.

I think Craig Wilson is better served now to back up PK instaed of Erstad. At least you might get a few HR's out of the spot when he is in there.

FarWestChicago
08-12-2007, 12:04 AM
He's in no way to blame for the loss, but can we just please stop playing him? That's all most of us "RABID HATERS" want. Try out Sweeney, see what Gonzalez can give you.

I've yet to hear a "RATIONAL" answer from the "RATIONAL" people for what reason there is at this point in the season to play Erstad and bat him in primo spots of the lineup. Don't you want to see what you have with these other guys or are we living in delusion world and think we actually have a chance at this division?

With that being said, I'll ask it for the 5,000th time without getting an answer.

What is the point of playing Erstad over Sweeney/Gonzalez/Rogowski or any other minor leaguers/prospects at this point in the season?
It is a common misconception that those of us who are not REH's want him to start at all 9 positions and bat in all 9 spots in the order. This is not true. I have no issue with any kids playing. I do have an issue with the nutbags who declared Erstad the Antichrist before the season started and have attributed global warming, the collapse of the US dollar, avian bird flu, the fall of the Roman empire and any future natural disaster that occurs to him. Some people just need to get a grip...period. Insane people believe in themselves more than sane people. They know they are "right". Sane people always have doubts about what they think. Indeed, you could almost define sanity that way. :smile:

Tragg
08-12-2007, 12:05 AM
If Gonzalez were in the lineup batting fifth, people would be complaining about that too.
And for good reason.
We are a little short on talent right now.
And really, we had a bench that consisted of 100% utility players and ozzie's slappers this year....and it didn't do the job. It can cover to give someone a day off, but playing a utililty player every day (due to injury) provides woefully insufficient production.

Richar should bat 1 or 2. He can actually work the bat to get on base (versus making Ozzie-style outs) and it would be interesting to see what he can do with lineup protection.
Fields could bat 3, 4 or 5.

ChiSoxGirl
08-12-2007, 12:29 AM
TBGR: So Close, Yet So Far (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/../rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3457)

jabrch
08-12-2007, 12:46 AM
Richar should bat 1 or 2. He can actually work the bat to get on base (versus making Ozzie-style outs)

Let me see how this works

Player A - works the bat and gets on base .194/.286/.290/.576 -- should get the most ABs on the team.

Meanwhile, in a land far far away,

Player B - who makes Ozzie-style outs - .266/.317/.348/.665 - is completely worthless?

Do I have this right?

chisoxmike
08-12-2007, 12:48 AM
What happened to 'Win or DIE Trying?'


:rolleyes:

DickAllen72
08-12-2007, 12:55 AM
Its not a funk it is reality. Here is a guy that for almost 2 years that hits below .200 vs. lefties. But will not change his style vs. lefties. If he would slap a few to left , he wouldn't be shifted and would get some hits to right. And I've heard it here before, He is a power hitter and has done that for his whole career. Well if he doesn't take the time and effort to adjust, he should become a platoon DH because dumping him is impossible.
Well said.

comet2k
08-12-2007, 12:55 AM
Hey, as long as we're blaming people, how about Toby Hall? The three times he was the catcher when Floyd started, Floyd got shelled. The one time A.J. caught Floyd, he pitched six scoreless innings.

The Sox are 7-15 in games Hall has started, and .500 when A.J. starts. Doesn't look like Hall calls a very good game, does it?

thomas35forever
08-12-2007, 12:56 AM
The Good: Contreras regaining his form and Fields continuing to prove he belongs at this level.

The Bad: Gavin Floyd deserving every bit of this loss. I wouldn't be surprised if he's sent back to Charlotte soon.

The Ugly: My 2007 record falling to 0-2 tonight.

Who else hates losing via the longball?

DickAllen72
08-12-2007, 01:01 AM
Hey, as long as we're blaming people, how about Toby Hall? The three times he was the catcher when Floyd started, Floyd got shelled. The one time A.J. caught Floyd, he pitched six scoreless innings.

The Sox are 7-15 in games Hall has started, and .500 when A.J. starts. Doesn't look like Hall calls a very good game, does it?
Interesting.

Noneck
08-12-2007, 01:02 AM
Let me see how this works

Player A - works the bat and gets on base .194/.286/.290/.576 -- should get the most ABs on the team.

Meanwhile, in a land far far away,

Player B - who makes Ozzie-style outs - .266/.317/.348/.665 - is completely worthless?

Do I have this right?


The way I took his post was that Player A is a part of the future so lets see what he can do in the 1&2 hole. Player B should not be in the future plans and until I see an interest from other clubs he does seem to be worthless.

ChiSoxGirl
08-12-2007, 01:07 AM
Hey, as long as we're blaming people, how about Toby Hall? The three times he was the catcher when Floyd started, Floyd got shelled. The one time A.J. caught Floyd, he pitched six scoreless innings.

The Sox are 7-15 in games Hall has started, and .500 when A.J. starts. Doesn't look like Hall calls a very good game, does it?

DumpJerry pointed this out to me a few weeks back and he's right. It seems like every time Hall starts a game, we lose. When Hall started the second game of the doubleheader against the Tigers a few weeks ago, we were losing, and losing big. When A.J. replaced Hall in the sixth due to injury (he suffered a mild concussion from C. Guillen's backswing), we came from behind and won. Coincidence? I think not....

thomas35forever
08-12-2007, 01:12 AM
To those who are questioning why Erstad was in the lineup batting fifth, those who read the pregame analysis on whitesox.com know that Erstad had put up stellar career numbers against Batista. I had no problem with Ozzie putting him in the lineup and was really hoping he'd be in there. Yes, he did go 0 for 5 tonight, but put some blame on Thome and Dye too, who went a combined 0 for 7 tonight.

I also felt we peaked too early when Fields hit the GS.

Tragg
08-12-2007, 01:13 AM
Let me see how this works

Player A - works the bat and gets on base .194/.286/.290/.576 -- should get the most ABs on the team.

Meanwhile, in a land far far away,

Player B - who makes Ozzie-style outs - .266/.317/.348/.665 - is completely worthless?

Do I have this right?
Actually 9 is fine for right now.

There is some info that I find relevant that you didn't mention.

Player A is a ROOKIE who's been up less than a month and has gotten 9 hole protection. By all accounts he's got a ton of potential.

Player B is a 10+ year 32 year old veteran in steep decline, who has enjoyed Thome protection most of the year (when his .348 slg isn't hitting in the 5 hole).


One other small fact: Ozzie's transformation of this offense has resulted in: last in the AL in runs socred, last in the AL in OBP and 3rd to last in the AL in slugging. And it isn't because Joe Crede is hurt. And this team is 8 below .500 and out of the race.

The one time A.J. caught Floyd, he pitched six scoreless innings.

Interesting point.
It's in character that that this manager would support the rookie pitcher with the B lineup and the B catcher.
Floyd makes his own bed, but I'd still give him several more starts. He throws a lot of good pitches and bad ones. I hear calls for Maseet - he had 1/2 a season up here. Let Floyd have some starts.

hi im skot
08-12-2007, 01:15 AM
Nice to see the Sox string some hits/walks together in the 9th to even give Fields the chance to do some damage. Although we lost, I left the ballpark excited to see Josh come through in a big way.

Floyd was pretty brutal, but it's obvious he's got the arm. If he can get his location issues fixed, he's going to be a nice fifth starter.

Contreras also looked solid in long relief today. Sure, there were some adventures, but he also had some tough luck on balls being hit in just the wrong spot.

Erstad was solid in the field but looked absolutely atrocious at the plate. 0 for 5? Give me a break. He and Thome were our rally killers tonight; we had some chances to really get back in the game early, but no one was able to come through.

Still, a lot to be excited about with this game. Let's get the win tomorrow in dominating fashion.

kittle42
08-12-2007, 01:49 AM
Looking at our 5-9 today I'm surprised it was even this close... this division is up for grabs and it seems like no one wants it. (The Sox should be on a 9 game streak.) :angry: I hope we never see Floyd again till next year.

Up for grabs? Yeah, between the Indians and the Tigers.

jabrch
08-12-2007, 03:01 AM
One other small fact: Ozzie's transformation of this offense has resulted in: last in the AL in runs socred, last in the AL in OBP and 3rd to last in the AL in slugging.

Tragg, that's completely ridiculous.

First, there is no "ozzie's transformation". You are making this up to fit your model. It's not accurate. Second, the reson this offense is underperforming is a collective suckitude of the players who were expected to play better. It is not Erstad's fault that Dye stunk in the first half. It is not Erstad's fault that PK couldn't hit until July. It is not Erstads fault that the earth rotates on its axis either. To blame either this game, or this season on Erstad is completely ridiculous.

To say Richar should be hitting at the top of the order is even more ridiculous. Ozzie's job is still to give the team that he has the best chance of winning. You should be able to look at those two stat lines and make a pretty quick decision that giving Richar more ABs and putting the kid at the top of the order is not the right thing to do.

jabrch
08-12-2007, 03:03 AM
The way I took his post was that Player A is a part of the future so lets see what he can do in the 1&2 hole. Player B should not be in the future plans and until I see an interest from other clubs he does seem to be worthless.


You really are advocating taking a guy with Richar's line and hitting him at the top of the order? As long as I am still paying to go see these games, I'm glad our manager doesn't agree with you.

oeo
08-12-2007, 03:33 AM
DumpJerry pointed this out to me a few weeks back and he's right. It seems like every time Hall starts a game, we lose. When Hall started the second game of the doubleheader against the Tigers a few weeks ago, we were losing, and losing big. When A.J. replaced Hall in the sixth due to injury (he suffered a mild concussion from C. Guillen's backswing), we came from behind and won. Coincidence? I think not....

His catcher's ERA is pretty bad, but he did call Danks' best start of the year. Today, it was Floyd, though, not Hall. If Floyd doesn't get the curve ball over, it doesn't matter who is calling the game.

oeo
08-12-2007, 03:37 AM
Its not a funk it is reality. Here is a guy that for almost 2 years that hits below .200 vs. lefties. But will not change his style vs. lefties. If he would slap a few to left , he wouldn't be shifted and would get some hits to right. And I've heard it here before, He is a power hitter and has done that for his whole career. Well if he doesn't take the time and effort to adjust, he should become a platoon DH because dumping him is impossible.

So that explains why he can't get hits off of anyone? :?:

The guy was fine two weeks ago...this is just stupid. He's in a funk, just like Konerko is. Hopefully they get out of it soon so we can start scoring some runs. Then we can really go on a winning streak and get back to respectability.

MetroPD
08-12-2007, 05:23 AM
I seriously don't get a lot of people on this board, a loss like this and the first person they turn to for blame is Erstad *****.


Maybe because some of us understand the concept of players having to produce runs in order to win a ball game.

Grzegorz
08-12-2007, 05:52 AM
So you want to replace Uribe with someone who's really no better offensively or defensively, is 2 years older, and will cost more than the guy we already have? (and give up talent to boot)

I am tired of Uribe's extended dry spells during the season. Uribe also has a tendency to take plays off and has recently re-acquainted himself with the 'human missile' concept where he goes running out to left field for a ball with reckless abandon.

I do not want a two-twenty hitter running down my left fielder and blowing out the the knee of that left fielder.

Wilson is a better ball player than Uribe. Wilson has more walks and has half of the strikeouts of Uribe. Wilson can handle the bat; sacrifice, hit and run, etc.

Can Uribe do that? As for defense, Uribe might have better defensive potential but Wilson plays the game day in day out. I'll take the guy that shows up every day any day.

If Wilson is two years older so what? He'll be thirty years old.

How many on this board clamored for Omar Visquel?

I want the better baseball player on the Chicago White Sox.

Frater Perdurabo
08-12-2007, 08:01 AM
I don't know what Hall's "catching ERA" is. What I do know is that he was signed to be the backup catcher primarily because of his ability to hit left-handed pitching. In spring training, there was talk that he and AJ would platoon, and AJ was said to be unhappy with that prospect.

Never once did I read anything about Hall's ability to handle pitchers or his receiving and throwing skills.

It's very unfortunate he got hurt; being on the DL early in the year probably caused his swing and timing to atrophy. It certainly has hurt his throwing ability.

As a result, he really hasn't produced like any of us had hoped.

I hope he recovers and becomes a productive player. I just haven't seen him do it in a Sox uniform yet.

LITTLE NELL
08-12-2007, 09:10 AM
Such a frustrating season. With Detroit and Cleveland coming back to the pack we could have been right there knocking at the door of 1st place. This team just cannot go on a sustained winning streak. Thome really hurt us last night but that screaming line drive that was just foul was the turning point. If that ball was fair we are right back in the ball game at that point.

ZombieRob
08-12-2007, 09:35 AM
Despite the fact that Floyd was terrible in two innings, I still want him to get the ball every fifth day for the rest of the season.

Keep Contreras in long relief for now.
Ozzie and Coop love him to much to do that.Plus owing him alot of $$$ may have something to do it.I dont think I have ever seen a manager cater to anyone player then Ozzie does with Jose.

Law11
08-12-2007, 09:52 AM
Such a frustrating season. With Detroit and Cleveland coming back to the pack we could have been right there knocking at the door of 1st place. This team just cannot go on a sustained winning streak. Thome really hurt us last night but that screaming line drive that was just foul was the turning point. If that ball was fair we are right back in the ball game at that point.

Or the guys on 2nd and 3rd he left stranded earlier, or the bases loaded erstad left stranded in the 5th... Typical of the season I guess.

Noneck
08-12-2007, 10:20 AM
So that explains why he can't get hits off of anyone? :?:

The guy was fine two weeks ago...this is just stupid. He's in a funk, just like Konerko is. Hopefully they get out of it soon so we can start scoring some runs. Then we can really go on a winning streak and get back to respectability.

No he wasn't fine 2 weeks ago. 2007 stats vs. lefties .176/.291/.287/.578 and last years stats vs. lefties were none too good either. He is a guy that is in career decline but can't face reality, so he doesn't adapt. As I stated before, he is a platoon DH.

Noneck
08-12-2007, 10:30 AM
You really are advocating taking a guy with Richar's line and hitting him at the top of the order? As long as I am still paying to go see these games, I'm glad our manager doesn't agree with you.

Its that time of year, when you pay to see what a player can do for next years club.

jabrch
08-12-2007, 11:30 AM
Its that time of year, when you pay to see what a player can do for next years club.

I'd like to see him prove he can hit lower in the order before we put pressure on him of leading off. We put Owens up there only because we had no options when Pods and Erstad were both down. I'd rather he grow from the bottom of the lineup also.

Noneck
08-12-2007, 11:56 AM
I'd like to see him prove he can hit lower in the order before we put pressure on him of leading off. We put Owens up there only because we had no options when Pods and Erstad were both down. I'd rather he grow from the bottom of the lineup also.

I'd love for him to grow in the bottom also, but considering we need someone for next years 1&2 hole, roll the dice and see what happens with him now so decisions can be made in the off season.

oeo
08-12-2007, 12:05 PM
No he wasn't fine 2 weeks ago. 2007 stats vs. lefties .176/.291/.287/.578 and last years stats vs. lefties were none too good either. He is a guy that is in career decline but can't face reality, so he doesn't adapt. As I stated before, he is a platoon DH.

Read, Noneck. Yes, he was fine two weeks ago. He could hit righties, he was drawing walks. Right now he's not getting on base, period. This whole platoon thing is irrelevant in this converstation. He is struggling, and it isn't because he hasn't face a RHP in over a week. :rolleyes:

GlassSox
08-12-2007, 12:09 PM
Hey, as long as we're blaming people, how about Toby Hall? The three times he was the catcher when Floyd started, Floyd got shelled. The one time A.J. caught Floyd, he pitched six scoreless innings.

The Sox are 7-15 in games Hall has started, and .500 when A.J. starts. Doesn't look like Hall calls a very good game, does it?

Good point!

Noneck
08-12-2007, 12:36 PM
Read, Noneck. Yes, he was fine two weeks ago. He could hit righties, he was drawing walks. Right now he's not getting on base, period. This whole platoon thing is irrelevant in this converstation. He is struggling, and it isn't because he hasn't face a RHP in over a week. :rolleyes:


Well Oeo, I don't consider just hitting righties fine for a DH. Unless a team has a platoon DH system. Finally, did you ever think that maybe father time has finally caught up with Thome? Its been a long season he has been hurting alot, so maybe what you see is what you get.

kittle42
08-12-2007, 03:15 PM
But one guy who intrigues me is Clint Barnes on COL. A couple years ago he looked like a keeper but sort of fizzed a bit.

There is very little intriguing about Barmes. he had one good half season, and other than that is a mediocre hitter with little to no power and doesn't get on base consistently.

Jack Wilson? Clint Barmes? Is this what we foresee for the 2008 Sox?

Frater Perdurabo
08-12-2007, 03:44 PM
I agree that Thome should sit against LHP, for several reasons:

1. He doesn't hit lefties very well;

2. To give him "planned" games to rest his back;

3. To give Fields guaranteed starts against LHP, whom he slaughters.

soxinem1
08-12-2007, 05:52 PM
There is very little intriguing about Barmes. he had one good half season, and other than that is a mediocre hitter with little to no power and doesn't get on base consistently.


Jack Wilson? Clint Barmes? Is this what we foresee for the 2008 Sox?


Sort of like Uribe when the Sox got him from COL, right?:smile:

Barnes was hurt most of last year, and this year was squeezed out. I'm not saying bet the ranch on him, but at worst, you have a decent backup.

Honestly, I see Michael Young in the White Sox future..........

Walker29
08-15-2007, 08:32 PM
ouch...I was in the Mirage sportsbook to watch this one come to an end. The Sox pull it out and I win $250 on a 3-team Red Sox, White Sox, Bears parlay bet. First and last time I bet on the White Sox....as if my emotional attachment isn't enought, putting a financial attachment on it just doubles the pain.