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Madvora
08-10-2007, 03:28 PM
I think it was yesterday that Hawk and Stone were talking about Ichiro Suzuki and how he may be the greatest leadoff hitter ever. Hawk brought up Rickey Henderson, which got me thinking.
Has there ever been any steroid suspicion surrounding this guy? I was just thinking about a lot of cooincidences... how he had a lot of power for a smaller guy, legs like tree trunks and played with McGwire and Canseco on the A's.

Now I'm not trying to accuse him of this, but I'm more interested if anyone else has ever though of this. Lots of people have been hunted down and named for steroid suspicion, but I never heard Henderson's name come up. Canseco never mentioned him in his book. I hope he didn't do anything, but it's kind of surprising that no one has even thought of him. People were going after guys like Aaron Rowand even.

mrfourni
08-10-2007, 03:35 PM
At this point, I wouldn't be surprised by anybody being named as a user.

soxinem1
08-10-2007, 03:52 PM
I am not a Rickey fan, but in all honesty, he had pop back in the early 80's before the steriod stuff became rapant.

But other than his first couple years with NYY and the year after he went back to OAK the first time, he never really hit more than mid-double digits. I even remember Billy Martin and Lou Piniella getting him away from power hitting in the late 80's with NYY.

To my memory, he was a big work out guy for legs even when he was in the minors, since that is what got him to MLB, and what he is best known for.

Nothing would suprise me, but I sort of doubt it.

downstairs
08-10-2007, 04:01 PM
Ask Rickey and Rickey would tell you that Rickey don't do steroids, Rickey is a clean player, and Rickey got all of Rickey's stats the natural way.

Madvora
08-10-2007, 05:42 PM
Recently I've been remembering what kind of player he was. He was a serious offensive threat. The kind could kill you a number of ways.
I always hated him and just about everybody on those Oakland teams that were rivaling the Sox during those early 90's years. I just hated him because he seeming like such a cocky jerk, but now I'm just starting to realize a lot of respect for the numbers he put up and the way he played offensively (I remember him not being too good out in LF.)
With that career, I hope it's legitimate. I wouldn't be surprised about anyone getting named either, but that wasn't the point. I was just surprised that it seems like no one even though of questioning a guy like this. It seems a little suspicious.
Also, just because a guy works out like a madman doesn't mean he wasn't on steroids, if anything, it would make you think the other way. They aren't magic, you're still going to have to put the work into it.

balke
08-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Man, can someone make a good poll for this? Who would be, or is the best leadoff hitter in history?


I would do it, but I'm busy right now, but I'm interested in what everyone thinks.

I would include Ty Cobb, Henderson, Ichiro, Pete Rose?. See, I'd have to look up #'s. I'm interested in Who would be the best leadoffer hitter in history, even if they were a #3 or #4 hitter in their true careers. What player is built as the ultimate leadoff hitter?

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2007, 08:34 PM
Man, can someone make a good poll for this? Who would be, or is the best leadoff hitter in history?


I would do it, but I'm busy right now, but I'm interested in what everyone thinks.

I would include Ty Cobb, Henderson, Ichiro, Pete Rose?. See, I'd have to look up #'s. I'm interested in Who would be the best leadoffer hitter in history, even if they were a #3 or #4 hitter in their true careers. What player is built as the ultimate leadoff hitter?
I doubt Cobb batted leadoff. I think he was a three or four, probably a three, to get more AB's. I think Wahoo Sam Crawford batted clean up. I think I could make a poll for the last twenty-five years or so, maybe, I'm drawing blanks now. Of the top of my head, Torn and Nellie might be able to add a few more years, because they've lived more years. Of course, it appears I didn't read your whole post. As far as the Sox go, One Dog was the best leadoff hitter I can think of. Best leadoff type stats of all time? Cobb by a huge margin. He was on base a lot, had pop, could steal bases in bunches, and was disruptive.

Brian26
08-10-2007, 08:38 PM
I would include Ty Cobb, Henderson, Ichiro, Pete Rose?. See, I'd have to look up #'s.

Of that list, he's not the best hitter or best player, but I'd go with Henderson for the pure intimdation factor of what could happen once he got on base.

eastchicagosoxfan
08-10-2007, 08:44 PM
Of that list, he's not the best hitter or best player, but I'd go with Henderson for the pure intimdation factor of what could happen once he got on base.
Henderson more intimidating than Cobb? Rickey stole more bases, but Cobb had plenty. Cobb is generally viewed as the Dale Earnhardt of baseball.

TornLabrum
08-10-2007, 09:38 PM
I doubt Cobb batted leadoff. I think he was a three or four, probably a three, to get more AB's. I think Wahoo Sam Crawford batted clean up. I think I could make a poll for the last twenty-five years or so, maybe, I'm drawing blanks now. Of the top of my head, Torn and Nellie might be able to add a few more years, because they've lived more years. Of course, it appears I didn't read your whole post. As far as the Sox go, One Dog was the best leadoff hitter I can think of. Best leadoff type stats of all time? Cobb by a huge margin. He was on base a lot, had pop, could steal bases in bunches, and was disruptive.

Cobb was a cleanup hitter.

thepaulbowski
08-10-2007, 09:50 PM
I think it was yesterday that Hawk and Stone were talking about Ichiro Suzuki and how he may be the greatest leadoff hitter ever. Hawk brought up Rickey Henderson, which got me thinking.
Has there ever been any steroid suspicion surrounding this guy? I was just thinking about a lot of cooincidences... how he had a lot of power for a smaller guy, legs like tree trunks and played with McGwire and Canseco on the A's.

Now I'm not trying to accuse him of this, but I'm more interested if anyone else has ever though of this. Lots of people have been hunted down and named for steroid suspicion, but I never heard Henderson's name come up. Canseco never mentioned him in his book. I hope he didn't do anything, but it's kind of surprising that no one has even thought of him. People were going after guys like Aaron Rowand even.

Ask Jose Canseco, he seems to know everything about everyone.

Madvora
08-11-2007, 09:51 AM
Ask Jose Canseco, he seems to know everything about everyone.
Yeah, I said that Canseco never mentioned him in his book. Who knows what that means because it didn't look like Canseco was holding out trying to protect anybody, then again anything could have happened. Canseco didn't necessarily have to know everything about everybody.

As for greatest leadoff hitter... I don't know because Ichiro Suzuki has become my favorite player out there and maybe the best I've ever seen (all around) but Henderson offensively was damn tough. Real tough decision.

soxfan13
08-11-2007, 10:44 AM
Ask Jose Canseco, he seems to know everything about everyone.

He was laughed at as a bitter ex-player that was just trying to get attention and money when he wrote his book but pretty much everything he said has ended up being true. So, maybe someone should ask him.

HomeFish
08-11-2007, 02:42 PM
Ask Rickey and Rickey would tell you that Rickey don't do steroids, Rickey is a clean player, and Rickey got all of Rickey's stats the natural way.

Rickey doesn't need any drugs. He's high on himself.

DSpivack
08-11-2007, 03:07 PM
Rickey doesn't need any drugs. Rickey is high on Rickey himself.

Fixed it for ya. :tongue: