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View Full Version : Wily Mo coming to 35th St?


Fenway
08-07-2007, 03:01 PM
Gammons on ESPN-Boston says the White Sox have made an offer for Wily Mo Pena

The Globe says he has cleared waivers

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/08/pena_clears_tra.html

I swear Pena has more 1-2 counts than anybody in baseball

russ99
08-07-2007, 03:05 PM
Not this again...

Dye is in RF for the rest of the season and we have Owens, Pods, Erstad, Terrero, Gonzalez on the 25-man and also Sweeney and/or Anderson coming up in September.

We don't want or need Willy Mo, and we especially don't need to pay him what he'll earn next year after Arb. I'd rather that money go to a FA, like Torii.

Mr. White Sox
08-07-2007, 03:06 PM
Gammons on ESPN-Boston says the White Sox have made an offer for Wily Mo Pena

The Globe says he has cleared waivers

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/08/pena_clears_tra.html

I swear Pena has more 1-2 counts than anybody in baseball

Why would the White Sox have made an offer for Pena after he cleared waivers? Why not just make a claim?

Fenway
08-07-2007, 03:08 PM
Why would the White Sox have made an offer for Pena after he cleared waivers? Why not just make a claim?

Red Sox would have pulled him back...now they free to talk

I don't know why any team would want him

He can't hit, field or run :?:

this might be related
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/08/07/homing_in_on_a_return/

HotelWhiteSox
08-07-2007, 03:12 PM
Unless it's a stud CF, we don't really need an OF need (we're not set, but there are bigger problems). They probably don't see Dye/Pods in their future though

DSpivack
08-07-2007, 03:17 PM
Red Sox would have pulled him back...now they free to talk

I don't know why any team would want him

He can't hit, field or run :?:

this might be related
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/08/07/homing_in_on_a_return/

I remember sitting in the bleachers seeing Bobby Kielty fall down twice during a game, one being an error. The Twins traded him for Shannon Stewart a week or two later.

oeo
08-07-2007, 03:17 PM
Not this again...

Dye is in RF for the rest of the season and we have Owens, Pods, Erstad, Terrero, Gonzalez on the 25-man and also Sweeney and/or Anderson coming up in September.

We don't want or need Willy Mo, and we especially don't need to pay him what he'll earn next year after Arb. I'd rather that money go to a FA, like Torii.

Just wait until we see Kenny's overall plan. Who knows what he plans to do if he acquires WMP? Now is not the time to judge his moves...Spring Training '08 is because there are apparently a lot of changes coming.

spiffie
08-07-2007, 03:22 PM
Just wait until we see Kenny's overall plan. Who knows what he plans to do if he acquires WMP? Now is not the time to judge his moves...Spring Training '08 is because there are apparently a lot of changes coming.
So if we promise to wait until March of 2008 to make a judgment, will you promise not to complain and say "wait until the season plays out" if that judgment is negative? Or will there just be some pictures of dark clouds and pointed references to the lack of World Series rings on the hands of any poster here, as opposed to Mr. Williams?

I don't know Kenny's plan, but I know Wily Mo Pena sucks. And that there are very few good plans that involve bringing in players who suck.

NorthSideSox72
08-07-2007, 03:24 PM
Not this again...

Dye is in RF for the rest of the season and we have Owens, Pods, Erstad, Terrero, Gonzalez on the 25-man and also Sweeney and/or Anderson coming up in September.

We don't want or need Willy Mo, and we especially don't need to pay him what he'll earn next year after Arb. I'd rather that money go to a FA, like Torii.
Sweeney and Anderson are both injured. Anderson is out for the year, not sure how long for Sweeney.

oeo
08-07-2007, 03:26 PM
So if we promise to wait until March of 2008 to make a judgment, will you promise not to complain and say "wait until the season plays out" if that judgment is negative? Or will there just be some pictures of dark clouds and pointed references to the lack of World Series rings on the hands of any poster here, as opposed to Mr. Williams?

I don't know Kenny's plan, but I know Wily Mo Pena sucks. And that there are very few good plans that involve bringing in players who suck.

Kenny's plan could be to turn around and trade him elsewhere. A few weeks ago, there was a 3-team deal that had WMP going elsewhere. Maybe we have what Boston wants, and that other team does not. You don't know what the plan is in the overall scheme of things, so just sit back and see what happens. If he's a starting outfielder going into Spring Training, then by all means start whining. Right now, it's not like we're picking up WMP as that one last piece to a division title.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 03:27 PM
Possibly WMP could be involved in a Tejada package. Perhaps Baltimore sees something we don't but feel Boston won't do business inside the division.
One could dream can't they?

rowand33
08-07-2007, 03:36 PM
So if we promise to wait until March of 2008 to make a judgment, will you promise not to complain and say "wait until the season plays out" if that judgment is negative? Or will there just be some pictures of dark clouds and pointed references to the lack of World Series rings on the hands of any poster here, as opposed to Mr. Williams?

I don't know Kenny's plan, but I know Wily Mo Pena sucks. And that there are very few good plans that involve bringing in players who suck.

Seriously... this is getting ridiculous on here today. Rowand's getting compared to Matt Murton. Wily Mo Pena is getting blasted for one bad season...

Let's clear some things up about Wily Mo.

He does not suck. He is not Joe Borchard. He has never been given a full shot, and he has amazing natural talent. David Ortiz once said "Nobody hits a ball like Wily Mo" He is having a bad year, and has been underutilized since being acquired by Boston (their outfield is far, far too crowded, and he should really have been given a shot at a larger role this year after his 2006 season).

his power potential is amazing. and he's only 24.

in 2004 he hit 24 Hrs and had 66 RBIs in only 336 ABs (project to 43 HRs over a full 550 AB season) and slugged .527. total line was .259/.319/.527.

in 2005 he hit 19 HRs and has 51 RBI in only 311 ABs. total line: .254/.304/.492.

In 2006 with the Red Sox he made great strides at the plate in limited playing time. Hitting 11 HRs with 49 RBI in 276 ABs and hitting at .301/.349/.489.

He's having a terrible 2007. But he has potential galore; saying he "sucks" is ridiculous. To show the ability to drive runners in and produce like that at the major league level from the time he was 21 on shows he does not suck.

I was against trading Dye (a proven commodity) for him. But I'm sure we'd trade very little for him through a waiver trade. His upside is huge playing half of his games in US Cellular.

If KW gets him for cheap, this is a fantastic move.

DumpJerry
08-07-2007, 03:37 PM
The Sox might be blocking him from going to the Twins or Tribe.

SBSoxFan
08-07-2007, 03:40 PM
The Sox might be blocking him from going to the Twins or Tribe.

I'm confused. If they were trying to block a team, wouldn't they have claimed WMP? Doesn't the fact that he passed through waivers mean no ML team claimed him, and now the Red Sox can talk to any team about a trade?

Fenway
08-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Wily Mo needs at bats which he can't get in Boston.

I will say this I have never seen anybody hit a ball harder when he connects....he almost killed someone last year in the Monster Seats...the ball was out there in like 3 seconds:o:

Seriously... this is getting ridiculous on here today. Rowand's getting compared to Matt Murton. Wily Mo Pena is getting blasted for one bad season...

Let's clear some things up about Wily Mo.

He does not suck. He is not Joe Borchard. He has never been given a full shot, and he has amazing natural talent. David Ortiz once said "Nobody hits a ball like Wily Mo" He is having a bad year, and has been underutilized since being acquired by Boston (their outfield is far, far too crowded, and he should really have been given a shot at a larger role this year after his 2006 season).

his power potential is amazing. and he's only 24.

in 2004 he hit 24 Hrs and had 66 RBIs in only 336 ABs (project to 43 HRs over a full 550 AB season) and slugged .527. total line was .259/.319/.527.

in 2005 he hit 19 HRs and has 51 RBI in only 311 ABs. total line: .254/.304/.492.

In 2006 with the Red Sox he made great strides at the plate in limited playing time. Hitting 11 HRs with 49 RBI in 276 ABs and hitting at .301/.349/.489.

He's having a terrible 2007. But he has potential galore; saying he "sucks" is ridiculous. To show the ability to drive runners in and produce like that at the major league level from the time he was 21 on shows he does not suck.

I was against trading Dye (a proven commodity) for him. But I'm sure we'd trade very little for him through a waiver trade. His upside is huge playing half of his games in US Cellular.

If KW gets him for cheap, this is a fantastic move.

DrewSox56
08-07-2007, 03:42 PM
Seriously... this is getting ridiculous on here today. Rowand's getting compared to Matt Murton. Wily Mo Pena is getting blasted for one bad season...

Let's clear some things up about Wily Mo.

He does not suck. He is not Joe Borchard. He has never been given a full shot, and he has amazing natural talent. David Ortiz once said "Nobody hits a ball like Wily Mo" He is having a bad year, and has been underutilized since being acquired by Boston (their outfield is far, far too crowded, and he should really have been given a shot at a larger role this year after his 2006 season).

his power potential is amazing. and he's only 24.

in 2004 he hit 24 Hrs and had 66 RBIs in only 336 ABs (project to 43 HRs over a full 550 AB season) and slugged .527. total line was .259/.319/.527.

in 2005 he hit 19 HRs and has 51 RBI in only 311 ABs. total line: .254/.304/.492.

In 2006 with the Red Sox he made great strides at the plate in limited playing time. Hitting 11 HRs with 49 RBI in 276 ABs and hitting at .301/.349/.489.

He's having a terrible 2007. But he has potential galore; saying he "sucks" is ridiculous. To show the ability to drive runners in and produce like that at the major league level from the time he was 21 on shows he does not suck.

I was against trading Dye (a proven commodity) for him. But I'm sure we'd trade very little for him through a waiver trade. His upside is huge playing half of his games in US Cellular.

If KW gets him for cheap, this is a fantastic move.

I was in the process of posting something fairly similar, but your post painted an even better picture.

Only thing I'd add is that if he is acquired for cheap, he'd be a nice DH plug in against LHP and would stay off the rosters of the competition for the remainder.

upperdeckusc
08-07-2007, 03:44 PM
if we can get him for an A/AA pitcher (ala Mackowiak), I'd full support the move.

palehozenychicty
08-07-2007, 03:49 PM
This can't be happening. :whiner:

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 03:51 PM
If they get him for cheap, rotate him through the OF and DH spots. I know no one wants to hear about his "potential" but this dude can flat out hit some bombs. And at this point in the season, might as well see if he's closer to David Ortiz or Joe Borchard. He's certainly worth a chance.

SoxxoS
08-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Good points Rowand 33 -

He is a butcher in the field, but DH is something the Sox are going to need to address soon - Thome has one more season (right?) and he is an injury risk. Dye may be gone, and the $ he is going to get (I am assuming) I would hope he would play the field.

Wily Mo could play the OF in a pinch, and possibly full time if you have a guy that can really play center. And if he does keep sucking with the bat, what do you lose? He has a lot more potential to be good than a lot of other guys.

eriqjaffe
08-07-2007, 03:55 PM
Face it, Wily Mo Pena is coming to 35th Street.

August 23-26.

salty99
08-07-2007, 03:59 PM
hehe...maybe they will take Contreras.

balke
08-07-2007, 04:06 PM
Wily Mo would be a good DH if he could hit.

TDog
08-07-2007, 04:08 PM
In addition to Pena clearing waivers to make him available to the White Sox, wouldn't the player(s) going to the Red Sox have to clear waivers up through the Red Sox?

spiffie
08-07-2007, 04:09 PM
Seriously... this is getting ridiculous on here today. Rowand's getting compared to Matt Murton. Wily Mo Pena is getting blasted for one bad season...

Let's clear some things up about Wily Mo.

He does not suck. He is not Joe Borchard. He has never been given a full shot, and he has amazing natural talent. David Ortiz once said "Nobody hits a ball like Wily Mo" He is having a bad year, and has been underutilized since being acquired by Boston (their outfield is far, far too crowded, and he should really have been given a shot at a larger role this year after his 2006 season).

his power potential is amazing. and he's only 24.

in 2004 he hit 24 Hrs and had 66 RBIs in only 336 ABs (project to 43 HRs over a full 550 AB season) and slugged .527. total line was .259/.319/.527.

in 2005 he hit 19 HRs and has 51 RBI in only 311 ABs. total line: .254/.304/.492.

In 2006 with the Red Sox he made great strides at the plate in limited playing time. Hitting 11 HRs with 49 RBI in 276 ABs and hitting at .301/.349/.489.

He's having a terrible 2007. But he has potential galore; saying he "sucks" is ridiculous. To show the ability to drive runners in and produce like that at the major league level from the time he was 21 on shows he does not suck.

I was against trading Dye (a proven commodity) for him. But I'm sure we'd trade very little for him through a waiver trade. His upside is huge playing half of his games in US Cellular.

If KW gets him for cheap, this is a fantastic move.
He's also heading into his fifth year. He has yet to show he can do more than hit for power while striking out a ton and being supposedly quite the butcher in the OF.

Also, who do you want to block to let Wily Mo Pena get 600+ AB's next year. Owens, who might be the only guy in the lineup next year not running with a piano on his back? Sweeney, who has as much potential as Pena, only without 4 years of inconsistent MLB level production? Hell, if we want a head case who didn't get a fair shot we have Brian Anderson just waiting in the wings, and apparently he's a lock for a 1.300 OPS if he'd only get 600 ABs in a season. Hell, people are talking about trying to put Fields in LF next year to keep him around.

But you're right. I was harsh on WMP. He doesn't suck. He is an inconsistent player with the chance he might one day, under just the right circumstances, possibly develop into a player sort of like Adam Dunn. At this point though I'm not disposed to cheering on taking more project players. Between Anderson, Sweeney, Fields, Owens, and possibly Pena that's just way more highly flawed OF possibilities for my stomach to handle.

oeo
08-07-2007, 04:09 PM
In addition to Pena clearing waivers to make him available to the White Sox, wouldn't the player(s) going to the Red Sox have to clear waivers up through the Red Sox?

If they're on the 40-man roster. But the way to get around that is with a 'player to be named later.'

eriqjaffe
08-07-2007, 04:21 PM
hehe...maybe they will take Contreras.I'd be happy if the Sox got Wily Mo Pena's mother for Contreras.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 04:39 PM
I'd be happy if the Sox got Wily Mo Pena's mother for Contreras.
Jane Doe Mo Pena is a pretty good hitter. If we could only be so lucky!

That said, I'd take anything for Contreras. I heard that after the divorce, Jose's fastball moved into 2Pac's house to live with Janis Joplin, Elvis, and Amelia Earhart. I don't think we'll ever see it again.

FedEx227
08-07-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm sorry.

Wily Mo Pena sucks. Especially for this team.

Do we really need another all or nothing power hitter?

And get this power potential, change of scenery crap out of here. He played in Cincinnati... if you can't become a great hitter in Cincy, in that stadium, in the NL... there is no hope for you.

Great, he hits for power. His miraculous 2004 where he hit 26 homers, 66 RBI in 336 AB projected out to 42 HR, 108 RBI (550 ABs) aka a 3-run home run monster aka White Sox Corpseball.

Unfortunately, when you project homers and RBIs with someone like Wily Mo, most defenders will conveniently not project his strikeout totals which were 108 in 336 at-bats or 176 Ks which would have put him 2nd in the league only behind fellow all-or-nothing Cincy bandbox member Adam Dunn.

In that same 2004, he also only walked 22 times in 336 ABs, which projects to 38 FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON which would rank him 170th among MLB players tied with the likes of Ben Greive,Keith Ginter and all-or-nothing specialists like Jose Guillen.

Maybe the Sox should take away the exploding scoreboard so fans will stop drooling over all or nothing, no speed, no defense, home run or strikeout artists. Wily Mo is the absolute last thing this team needs. Honestly, THE LAST. Haven't we seen that a team filled with mashers doesn't equal success? Balance is the key to championships and acquiring Wily Mo would just about eliminate any balance for the next couple of years.


That said, I'd take anything for Contreras. I heard that after the divorce, Jose's fastball moved into 2Pac's house to live with Janis Joplin, Elvis, and Amelia Earhart. I don't think we'll ever see it again.

Nah, Jimmy Hoffa has it.

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry.

Wily Mo Pena sucks. Especially for this team.

Do we really need another all or nothing power hitter?

And get this power potential, change of scenery crap out of here. He played in Cincinnati... if you can't become a great hitter in Cincy, in that stadium, in the NL... there is no hope for you.

Great, he hits for power. His miraculous 2004 where he hit 26 homers, 66 RBI in 336 AB projected out to 42 HR, 108 RBI (550 ABs) aka a 3-run home run monster aka White Sox Corpseball.

Unfortunately, when you project homers and RBIs with someone like Wily Mo, most defenders will conveniently not project his strikeout totals which were 108 in 336 at-bats or 176 Ks which would have put him 2nd in the league only behind fellow all-or-nothing Cincy bandbox member Adam Dunn.

In that same 2004, he also only walked 22 times in 336 ABs, which projects to 38 FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON which would rank him 170th among MLB players tied with the likes of Ben Greive,Keith Ginter and all-or-nothing specialists like Jose Guillen.

Maybe the Sox should take away the exploding scoreboard so fans will stop drooling over all or nothing, no speed, no defense, home run or strikeout artists. Wily Mo is the absolute last thing this team needs. Honestly, THE LAST. Haven't we seen that a team filled with mashers doesn't equal success? Balance is the key to championships and acquiring Wily Mo would just about eliminate any balance for the next couple of years.



Nah, Jimmy Hoffa has it.


He's worth a shot, it's not like the Sox would have to give up much for him. And considering the success rate of the WSox top prospects, I don't fully trust that any of our "top" guys are going to pan out. Yes, Owens and Fields have shown some promise, but it's not like they are tearing it up like a Ryan Braun or Hunter Pence did when they were called up. I don't mind taking a ch ance on a Wily Mo, he can't be worse than Luis freaking Terrero.

FedEx227
08-07-2007, 04:50 PM
He's worth a shot, it's not like the Sox would have to give up much for him. And considering the success rate of the WSox top prospects, I don't fully trust that any of our "top" guys are going to pan out. Yes, Owens and Fields have shown some promise, but it's not like they are tearing it up like a Ryan Braun or Hunter Pence did when they were called up. I don't mind taking a ch ance on a Wily Mo, he can't be worse than Luis freaking Terrero.

People, most prospects aren't going to be like Braun or Pence. Why can't this organization and its fans have any patience with young players. I think Fields and Owens are progressing tremendously, Owens has been reaching base almost every game, granted it's not a 3-run homer, but for a guy early in the lineup getting on-base is the objective.

And yes, he can be worse than Luis Terrero, at least Terrero can catch a ball and draw a walk.

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 04:54 PM
And yes, he can be worse than Luis Terrero, at least Terrero can catch a ball and draw a walk.


Terrero's career 162 game ave is 32 walks, Wily Mo's is 31. I'll take Wily Mo's power potential over Terrero's one extra walk per 162 games any day.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 04:55 PM
Unfortunately, when you project homers and RBIs with someone like Wily Mo, most defenders will conveniently not project his strikeout totals which were 108 in 336 at-bats or 176 Ks which would have put him 2nd in the league only behind fellow all-or-nothing Cincy bandbox member Adam Dunn.

In that same 2004, he also only walked 22 times in 336 ABs, which projects to 38 FOR THE ENTIRE SEASON which would rank him 170th among MLB players tied with the likes of Ben Greive,Keith Ginter and all-or-nothing specialists like Jose Guillen.
The only way I'd go along with Wily Mo getting starter's playing time would be if he were to be a fulltime DH while the Sox were in rebuilding mode, and even then, I'd only want to see that if the Sox could use the Cell to bump up his HR totals, raise his trade value, and then ship him off for a useful piece. The buy low, sell high approach could work well with Wily Mo.

But, the Sox are saying now that they aren't in rebuilding mode. We do need to look for Thome's replacement very soon, if not right now, so my question is this: why not call up Cincy and see if we can do something with Adam Dunn? Dunn is the prototypical LH high strikeout home run hitter, but he also walks (.378 career OBP). I'd rather see the Sox deal the prospects to pick him up (assuming of course an extension could be worked out) because at least then we'd know what we're getting.

spiffie
08-07-2007, 04:59 PM
People, most prospects aren't going to be like Braun or Pence. Why can't this organization and its fans have any patience with young players. I think Fields and Owens are progressing tremendously, Owens has been reaching base almost every game, granted it's not a 3-run homer, but for a guy early in the lineup getting on-base is the objective.

And yes, he can be worse than Luis Terrero, at least Terrero can catch a ball and draw a walk.
I think its the frustration from the fact none of our prospects are Pence, or Braun, or Zimmerman, or any rookie who makes an impact on the MLB level. When's the last rookie to come up and be anything more than average? I can't think of the last rookie (outside of Iguchi) we've had who could legitimately be called a R.O.Y. candidate.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 05:00 PM
Terrero's career 162 game ave is 32 walks, Wily Mo's is 31. I'll take Wily Mo's power potential over Terrero's one extra walk per 162 games any day.
Terrero has been a different player this year, albeit in limited reserve playing time. Plus he's actually a good defensive CF with an arm, despite the fact that many here will claim he's terrible because of a couple bad plays. At least Terrero fills a legitimate need on any 25-man roster (back up CF). Wily as a bench player isn't useful because he can't play defense anywhere, and there is no need for a high strikeout, poor disciplined power hitter coming off the bench solely as a pinch hitter if he can't even make contact.

TDog
08-07-2007, 05:01 PM
I think its the frustration from the fact none of our prospects are Pence, or Braun, or Zimmerman, or any rookie who makes an impact on the MLB level. When's the last rookie to come up and be anything more than average? I can't think of the last rookie (outside of Iguchi) we've had who could legitimately be called a R.O.Y. candidate.

Jenks didn't suck in his rookie season.

FedEx227
08-07-2007, 05:01 PM
I think its the frustration from the fact none of our prospects are Pence, or Braun, or Zimmerman, or any rookie who makes an impact on the MLB level. When's the last rookie to come up and be anything more than average? I can't think of the last rookie (outside of Iguchi) we've had who could legitimately be called a R.O.Y. candidate.

Which is equally frustrating and begs the question is it the people we're drafting or how we are handling them when they come up?

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 05:04 PM
Jenks didn't suck in his rookie season.


He also came from the Angels org. and was picked in the Rule 5 draft by the Sox. So he isn't technically a WSox prospect, same with Richar.

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 05:05 PM
Terrero has been a different player this year, albeit in limited reserve playing time. Plus he's actually a good defensive CF with an arm, despite the fact that many here will claim he's terrible because of a couple bad plays. At least Terrero fills a legitimate need on any 25-man roster (back up CF). Wily as a bench player isn't useful because he can't play defense anywhere, and there is no need for a high strikeout, poor disciplined power hitter coming off the bench solely as a pinch hitter if he can't even make contact.


Terrero is awful, he has no business being on a contending teams 25 man roster. Not saying Wily Mo should be either, but I'd like to see what he could do playing everday the rest of the season.

santo=dorf
08-07-2007, 05:06 PM
Kenny's plan could be to turn around and trade him elsewhere. A few weeks ago, there was a 3-team deal that had WMP going elsewhere. Maybe we have what Boston wants, and that other team does not. You don't know what the plan is in the overall scheme of things, so just sit back and see what happens. If he's a starting outfielder going into Spring Training, then by all means start whining. Right now, it's not like we're picking up WMP as that one last piece to a division title.
OK smart guy. How exactly is KW going to trade WMP for something of value if absolutely nobody wanted him in June and July, and he cleared waivers despite having a relatively small contract?

WMP value isn't much, and it's because he sucks.

TDog
08-07-2007, 05:09 PM
He also came from the Angels org. and was picked in the Rule 5 draft by the Sox. So he isn't technically a WSox prospect, same with Richar.

Then maybe you have to wonder how the Sox didn't screw Jenks up before bringing him to the big leagues.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 05:10 PM
I think its the frustration from the fact none of our prospects are Pence, or Braun, or Zimmerman, or any rookie who makes an impact on the MLB level. When's the last rookie to come up and be anything more than average? I can't think of the last rookie (outside of Iguchi) we've had who could legitimately be called a R.O.Y. candidate.
They are few and far between across the board, and also Braun as an example came out of a strong farm system built almost entirely on the "spoils," if you want to call them that, of an historically ****ty Milwaukee team (taken 5th overall in the 2005 draft).

We do have Josh Fields who we should not forget has only been concentrating fully on baseball since June of 2004 when he was drafted. He's made huge strides since coming out of college incredibly raw and it's not out of the question to expect him to cut his K numbers down and become more selective at the plate as time goes on. I really think Josh is going to be a stud in the near future. Plus we have Richar who is looking good, Danks who is at least making it and learning in the Majors when he should rightfully be in Triple A still, and Owens who has at least shown improvement as of late.

oeo
08-07-2007, 05:10 PM
OK smart guy. How exactly is KW going to trade WMP for something of value if absolutely nobody wanted him in June and July, and he cleared waivers despite having a relatively small contract?

WMP value isn't much, and it's because he sucks.

Now we're going to start name-calling? Both the Nationals (and then the Brewers) were rumored to be looking at him. Like I said, maybe we have what Boston wants, and a team like Washington does not. It sounds like Epstein is overvaluing the guy, as he wouldn't give up anything in addition to him, for Dye. Maybe he wants something for him?

And I never said that it was going to happen...read the post, it was speculation. Kenny has a plan and I trust him that he'll put together the best possible team for 2008.

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 05:10 PM
Then maybe you have to wonder how the Sox didn't screw Jenks up before bringing him to the big leagues.


Good thing Richar was called up a couple months after being acquired.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 05:17 PM
Terrero is awful, he has no business being on a contending teams 25 man roster. Not saying Wily Mo should be either, but I'd like to see what he could do playing everday the rest of the season.
Terrero's .714 OPS isn't all that bad for a 25th guy. He's a backup CF. Look around at other rosters and I'm sure you'll find other teams who are much worse. Besides, what does Terrero have to do with this argument anyway? You are comparing a backup who plays a good CF, which is a tough defensive position, to a guy who has no place on defense at all and is looked at as an every DH project. Wily Mo could hit a lot of home runs over the course of a full season, but how many runs would he allow out there in LF? How frustrating would it be to watch a team like the Twins just hit weak little bloopers out there for doubles over and over because our LF has no buisness standing out there?

soxfan43
08-07-2007, 05:22 PM
Terrero's .714 OPS isn't all that bad for a 25th guy. He's a backup CF. Look around at other rosters and I'm sure you'll find other teams who are much worse. Besides, what does Terrero have to do with this argument anyway? You are comparing a backup who plays a good CF, which is a tough defensive position, to a guy who has no place on defense at all and is looked at as an every DH project. Wily Mo could hit a lot of home runs over the course of a full season, but how many runs would he allow out there in LF? How frustrating would it be to watch a team like the Twins just hit weak little bloopers out there for doubles over and over because our LF has no buisness standing out there?


My main point is, I'd rather see Wily Mo out there for the rest of the year to see if he's got anything besides power in him. The rest of the year is a tryout for next year, I don't see the point in wasting AB's on Pods or Erstad. If you only get a Single A pitcher for Gooch, I'm guessing it won't take a lot to get Wily Mo. He's worth a shot. Terrero will never be anything more than a 25th man. Maybe that's the best Wily Mo can do, but maybe not.

PennStater98r
08-07-2007, 05:33 PM
I think its the frustration from the fact none of our prospects are Pence, or Braun, or Zimmerman, or any rookie who makes an impact on the MLB level. When's the last rookie to come up and be anything more than average? I can't think of the last rookie (outside of Iguchi) we've had who could legitimately be called a R.O.Y. candidate.

If we are talking players Sox brought up to the Bigs and have had at least one year of success, I can think of a few.

Here are some names off the top of my head:


Ray Durham - 1995 - solid big league career - All-Star
Mike Cameron - 1995 20/20 guy 5 times - All-Star
Magglio Ordonez - 1997 - ROY candidate and current MVP candidate All-Star
Mike Caruso - 1998 - ROY candidate (I know he was drafted by the Giants, but he was the 'gem' SS prospect in our system for years)
Carlos Lee - 1999 - ROY Candidate - All-Star
Mark Buehrle - 2000 - Recently compared to Glavine - All-Star
Jon Garland - 2000 Back to back 18 win seasons - All-Star (I know he was drafted by the Cubs, but we brought him over when he was 19)
Aaron Rowand - 2002 - All-Star

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 05:50 PM
My main point is, I'd rather see Wily Mo out there for the rest of the year to see if he's got anything besides power in him. The rest of the year is a tryout for next year, I don't see the point in wasting AB's on Pods or Erstad. If you only get a Single A pitcher for Gooch, I'm guessing it won't take a lot to get Wily Mo. He's worth a shot. Terrero will never be anything more than a 25th man. Maybe that's the best Wily Mo can do, but maybe not.
Well I agree with you on that then. I'd rather see anyone out there over Pods and Erstad, but knowing the Sox, if they acquired Pena they'd dump the wrong guy and still end up sticking with the DL Twins. I guess they could maybe hope WMP raises his value a bit before dealing him in the offseason. I just don't want the guy to be any part of our future unless we're rebuilding, which we're not apparently.

Taliesinrk
08-07-2007, 06:34 PM
This is confusing. I just don't understand why we'd want WMP. Where's he gonna play? seriously though. I think Dye needs to be re-signed, and I can't understand why we'd want a strikeout king.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really wouldn't be opposed to having Pods back around next year. He's had a lot of time off this year, and maybe we could get him healthy for next year. Worst case scenario, we go with Owens or Sweeney (which we would do anyway) if he gets hurt.. again. When Pods is healthy, he can change how an entire line-up moves.

Tragg
08-07-2007, 10:42 PM
If they get him for cheap, rotate him through the OF and DH spots.
There is absolutely no reason he should cost a cent more than we got for Mack. At that price (and no higher), he may be worth the risk.

Have we waived our players, and did they clear?

Sargeant79
08-08-2007, 07:24 AM
If we are talking players Sox brought up to the Bigs and have had at least one year of success, I can think of a few.

Here are some names off the top of my head:


Ray Durham - 1995 - solid big league career - All-Star
Mike Cameron - 1995 20/20 guy 5 times - All-Star
Magglio Ordonez - 1997 - ROY candidate and current MVP candidate All-Star
Mike Caruso - 1998 - ROY candidate (I know he was drafted by the Giants, but he was the 'gem' SS prospect in our system for years)
Carlos Lee - 1999 - ROY Candidate - All-Star
Mark Buehrle - 2000 - Recently compared to Glavine - All-Star
Jon Garland - 2000 Back to back 18 win seasons - All-Star (I know he was drafted by the Cubs, but we brought him over when he was 19)
Aaron Rowand - 2002 - All-Star

Playing devil's advocate here, I feel obligated to point out the absence of any names on the list in the last 5 years. I think we can all agree that this is a problem and is one of the reasons why we find ourselves a sub-.500 team with a $100 million payroll.

Also, Caruso wasn't in the system for years. IIRC, he came over in the White Flag trade in 1997, had a solid rookie year, and then fell off the face of the earth.

rdivaldi
08-08-2007, 09:23 AM
Playing devil's advocate here, I feel obligated to point out the absence of any names on the list in the last 5 years.


A lot of that has to do with our philosophy of trading prospects for proven veterans. Jon Rauch, Matt Guerrier, Chris Young, Josh Rupe, Josh Fogg and Gary Majewski have enjoyed successful stints in the majors over the past 5 years.

rdivaldi
08-08-2007, 09:25 AM
He also came from the Angels org. and was picked in the Rule 5 draft by the Sox. So he isn't technically a WSox prospect, same with Richar.

Considering we got Richar by trading one of our prospects for him, I'd say he is a product of our farm system.

spiffie
08-08-2007, 09:33 AM
If we are talking players Sox brought up to the Bigs and have had at least one year of success, I can think of a few.

Here are some names off the top of my head:


Ray Durham - 1995 - solid big league career - All-Star
Mike Cameron - 1995 20/20 guy 5 times - All-Star
Magglio Ordonez - 1997 - ROY candidate and current MVP candidate All-Star
Mike Caruso - 1998 - ROY candidate (I know he was drafted by the Giants, but he was the 'gem' SS prospect in our system for years)
Carlos Lee - 1999 - ROY Candidate - All-Star
Mark Buehrle - 2000 - Recently compared to Glavine - All-Star
Jon Garland - 2000 Back to back 18 win seasons - All-Star (I know he was drafted by the Cubs, but we brought him over when he was 19)
Aaron Rowand - 2002 - All-Star
My point wasn't that no one from our system has had success. The point was that it has been forever since we had an impact rookie. For some reason the guys in our system take seemingly 3-6 years to get acclimated to major league ball. When we bring up a kid the best we hope for is for him to keep his head above water.

Here's how our farm kids/non Japanese players have done in ROY voting:
2004 - Ross Gload 7th place (4 pts out of 140 max)
2000 - Kelly Wunsch 5th place (2 pts out of 140 max)
1999 - Chris Singleton 6th place (9 pts out of 140 max)
1999 - Carlos Lee 7th place (4 pts out of 140 max)
1998 - Mike Caruso 3rd place (34 pts out of 140 max)
1998 - Magglio Ordonez 5th place (1 pt out of 140 max)
1997 - Mike Cameron 6th place (5 pts out of 140 max)
1996 - James Baldwin 2nd place (64 pts out of 140 max)
1995 - Ray Durham 6th place (3 pts out of 140 max)
1993 - Jason Bere 2nd place (59 pts out of 140 max)
1990 - Robin Ventura 7th place (3 pts out of 140 max)
1990 - Scott Radinsky 9th place (1 pt out of 140 max)
1985 - Ozzie Guillen 1st place (101 pts out of 140 max)

Ozzie is also the last person we've had get a single 1st place vote in ROY voting. I think that's where some of the frustration comes from. Every other organization seemingly has seen some young kid come up and light things up upon arrival.

Totally off-topic, but damn was the 2001 voting some power names. In the AL ROY votes went to 4 players: Ichiro, Sabathia, Soriano, Eckstein. In the NL ROY votes went to 5 players: Pujols, Oswalt, Rollins, Dunn, and Bud Smith. Don't worry, Bud only got 1 pt out of 140.

Randar68
08-08-2007, 09:45 AM
I swear Pena has more 1-2 counts than anybody in baseball

Maybe you don't watch many White Sox games, but I think Uribe prolly sees more than 3 pitches in less than half his AB's...

3.58 pitches/PA for Uribe versus 3.86 for Pena.

soxfan13
08-08-2007, 09:52 AM
This is confusing. I just don't understand why we'd want WMP. Where's he gonna play? seriously though. I think Dye needs to be re-signed, and I can't understand why we'd want a strikeout king.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I really wouldn't be opposed to having Pods back around next year. He's had a lot of time off this year, and maybe we could get him healthy for next year. Worst case scenario, we go with Owens or Sweeney (which we would do anyway) if he gets hurt.. again. When Pods is healthy, he can change how an entire line-up moves.

Thats the big thing "when he is healthy". He hasnt been healthy since he has been here. People seem to forget that even in 2005 he missed some time that led to the Sox almost giving up the division. Ive said before thanks for the memories Pods but we need a table setter that is a little more reliable.

balke
08-08-2007, 09:54 AM
Thats the big thing "when he is healthy". He hasnt been healthy since he has been here. People seem to forget that even in 2005 he missed some time that led to the Sox almost giving up the division. Ive said before thanks for the memories Pods but we need a table setter that is a little more reliable.

He's barely paid anything, and he effects the team enough that they don't seem to come close to the playoffs without him. I hate his injuries, but he's the final piece to the Sox' puzzle. I think they should keep him around. Wily Mo is the opposite direction you wanna go if you are thinking of replacing Pods.

soxfan13
08-08-2007, 09:58 AM
He's barely paid anything, and he effects the team enough that they don't seem to come close to the playoffs without him. I hate his injuries, but he's the final piece to the Sox' puzzle. I think they should keep him around. Wily Mo is the opposite direction you wanna go if you are thinking of replacing Pods.

Im not saying get Wily Mo or not and I dont care what hes paid. Why keep someone around that is not reliable? The Sox have proven what kind of team they are when he is healthy and when he is injured. So wouldnt you want that type of player but that will give you 140-145 games minimum?

Sockinchisox
08-08-2007, 10:12 AM
Im not saying get Wily Mo or not and I dont care what hes paid. Why keep someone around that is not reliable? The Sox have proven what kind of team they are when he is healthy and when he is injured. So wouldnt you want that type of player but that will give you 140-145 games minimum?

Oh god if they let Pods go this offseason and sign Rowand is Pods going to be the new "Rowand"? I don't think I could stomach people screaming for Pods back saying he was the heart and soul of this team.

And about Pena, if the Red Sox would take Contreras and pay 75% of his contract I would gladly take Pena off of their hands.

Tragg
08-08-2007, 10:17 AM
I hate his injuries, but he's the final piece to the Sox' puzzle. I think they should keep him around. Wily Mo is the opposite direction you wanna go if you are thinking of replacing Pods.
You can't trust Pods' health, thus you can't build around him. Find someone like him - that's what they hope they get in Owens; .030 more points in his BA and start taking some walks (a real weakness in his game) and he's Pods Jr.
Ideally, though would be a leadoff hitter with more tools (power and defensive abilities)...those are rare.

soxfan13
08-08-2007, 10:19 AM
Oh god if they let Pods go this offseason and sign Rowand is Pods going to be the new "Rowand"? I don't think I could stomach people screaming for Pods back saying he was the heart and soul of this team.

And about Pena, if the Red Sox would take Contreras and pay 75% of his contract I would gladly take Pena off of their hands.

Oh you can see it coming a mile away:tongue:

oeo
08-08-2007, 10:35 AM
OK smart guy. How exactly is KW going to trade WMP for something of value if absolutely nobody wanted him in June and July, and he cleared waivers despite having a relatively small contract?

WMP value isn't much, and it's because he sucks.

No one interested?

A major league scout yesterday mentioned the Orioles as the kind of team that might have interest.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/08/08/way_is_cleared_for_pea_trade/?page=1

Now it makes you wonder if the O's want WMP in a package for Tejada.

balke
08-08-2007, 11:10 AM
Im not saying get Wily Mo or not and I dont care what hes paid. Why keep someone around that is not reliable? The Sox have proven what kind of team they are when he is healthy and when he is injured. So wouldnt you want that type of player but that will give you 140-145 games minimum?

I would like that, but I don't see many available.

balke
08-08-2007, 11:15 AM
Now it makes you wonder if the O's want WMP in a package for Tejada.

Bring it on. I'd love to see Tejada next season. This team's lineup would resemble 2004, but with better 1-2 hitters.

upperdeckusc
08-08-2007, 11:33 AM
Considering we got Richar by trading one of our prospects for him, I'd say he is a product of our farm system.

:?:

SBSoxFan
08-08-2007, 11:35 AM
I would like that, but I don't see many available.

Should KW talk to Mets and see what it would take to get Reyes?

soxfan13
08-08-2007, 11:44 AM
I would like that, but I don't see many available.

Its not like we are trying to replace Ricky Henderson. Patterson's name jumps right out immediately.*This is not a endorsement of signing him.

russ99
08-08-2007, 12:03 PM
Two things about Willy Mo.

1. He's making $2M this season and the reason the Red Sox can't deal him is because he's Arb eligible and will get a substantial raise this offseason due to his HR numbers. No team wants a player "with potential" and have to pay him $4-5M to take a chance that he'll develop that potential next season.

2. Going back to his minor league days, last season was the only time he hit for a good average for an extended period of time, and there's no indications that he can do it again. In fact this year's numbers are more in line with his historical performance, and not the "bad season" abberation some people claim it to be.

Baseball Reference lists his most similar players at age as Pete Incaviglia and Jesse Barfield, meaning he'd be a passable power hitting outfielder - and doubtful that he'll develop into a great Griffey/Beltran type player, even with significant playing time. In my observations, he's a mix of Juan Uribe and Sammy Sosa at the plate, and I'm not sure I want that playing LF for the Sox for the forseeable future...

soxfan43
08-08-2007, 12:05 PM
The sox are a different team with a legit lead off hitter. Whether its Pods or someone else, it doesn't matter. Pods hasn't had one injury free season with the Sox, so why keep bringing him back? Owens is showing promise, but he's not there yet. The Sox need a true leadoff guy to get to the playoffs, but I for one, don't want to rely on Pods being that guy anymore.

balke
08-08-2007, 12:12 PM
Its not like we are trying to replace Ricky Henderson. Patterson's name jumps right out immediately.*This is not a endorsement of signing him.

The OBP wouldn't be there as a leadoff hitter. The big fault of the 2004 Chicago White Sox was the leadoff men were rarely on base. They were a feast or famine offense that didn't spread the runs around. Once they got a leadoff hitter who could bunt, get on base, and steal followed by someone in the 2-hole who could get him over, the offensive production grew greatly.

Patterson has the speed, but you don't want someone who K's that much and only gets on base .311. He'd cost more too. I'd take him as a replacement, but the leadoff spot would look pretty ugly.

There's not anyone readily available that will step in at the leadoff spot and give what Pods does, I don't believe.

Foulke You
08-08-2007, 12:32 PM
Now it makes you wonder if the O's want WMP in a package for Tejada.
The pieces seem to fit the puzzle. KW failed to land Tejada in a waiver deal and now are going after a piece (WMP) that doesn't seem to fit in with the direction of our team. Perhaps the O's told KW that if he got WMP, then they would do the deal.

The only other conclusion/possibility I can draw from the Sox trying to get WMP is that they are going to shop Jim Thome in the offseason to clear his salary for spending elsewhere and go with a younger, cheaper DH in Willy Mo Pena. The Tejada scenario seems the more realistic one to me.

russ99
08-08-2007, 12:49 PM
The OBP wouldn't be there as a leadoff hitter. The big fault of the 2004 Chicago White Sox was the leadoff men were rarely on base. They were a feast or famine offense that didn't spread the runs around. Once they got a leadoff hitter who could bunt, get on base, and steal followed by someone in the 2-hole who could get him over, the offensive production grew greatly.

Patterson has the speed, but you don't want someone who K's that much and only gets on base .311. He'd cost more too. I'd take him as a replacement, but the leadoff spot would look pretty ugly.

There's not anyone readily available that will step in at the leadoff spot and give what Pods does, I don't believe.

That's why unless the Sox go after an extremely expensive leadoff guy in the offseason, they're better off with Owens, and Pods as a backup due to his health concerns.

balke
08-08-2007, 01:13 PM
That's why unless the Sox go after an extremely expensive leadoff guy in the offseason, they're better off with Owens, and Pods as a backup due to his health concerns.

I think it would be reversed. Why would sit him due to health concerns? He's a better hitter and if he's healthy he'll produce better. You keep Owens to platoon with Pods, and whoever plays CF. IF Pods does go down again, the team has Owens backing him up with speed.

soxfan13
08-08-2007, 01:36 PM
I think it would be reversed. Why would sit him due to health concerns? He's a better hitter and if he's healthy he'll produce better. You keep Owens to platoon with Pods, and whoever plays CF. IF Pods does go down again, the team has Owens backing him up with speed.

Why dont they just expand the rosters to 30 then. This way they can keep extra players for players that consistently are getting dinged around.:tongue: I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

balke
08-08-2007, 05:58 PM
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.


http://www.geocities.com/simpsonshq2000/Pictures/other/skinner2.JPG

"I Don't agree with that."

santo=dorf
08-08-2007, 06:53 PM
The pieces seem to fit the puzzle. KW failed to land Tejada in a waiver deal and now are going after a piece (WMP) that doesn't seem to fit in with the direction of our team. Perhaps the O's told KW that if he got WMP, then they would do the deal.

The only other conclusion/possibility I can draw from the Sox trying to get WMP is that they are going to shop Jim Thome in the offseason to clear his salary for spending elsewhere and go with a younger, cheaper DH in Willy Mo Pena. The Tejada scenario seems the more realistic one to me.
:?:
If the O's wanted WMP, why didn't they put a claim in for him? The Sox put in a claim for Tejada so that means they automatically want to trade for him right now?

Jim Thome makes around $8 million with the Sox to be the best hitter against RHP. Trading him doesn't free up much money when Eric Byrnes igetting $10 million per on a closed market.

.....and any team wanting to replace Thome with Pena is completely clueless. I don't care how young he is, he sucks. Despite his age, he will be a free agent after next season, so he's not really a plan for the future.

santo=dorf
08-08-2007, 06:59 PM
No one interested?



http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/08/08/way_is_cleared_for_pea_trade/?page=1

Now it makes you wonder if the O's want WMP in a package for Tejada.
"as a team that might have interest."

That's as about as shallow as you can get. I believe there were rumors of Baltimore being interested in him earlier in the year, so it makes sense to mention his name with them.

Mike Caruso - 1998 - ROY candidate (I know he was drafted by the Giants, but he was the 'gem' SS prospect in our system for years)
Caruso was in the Sox's farm System for about a month and a half. How the hell does that equal a "gem SS prospect in our system for years?" His rookie season wasn't even that good either.

balke
08-08-2007, 07:07 PM
Wily Mo looks like the slower more powerful CYoung. So that could shut some people up at least about losing the "future superstar".

RCWHITESOX
08-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Seriously... this is getting ridiculous on here today. Rowand's getting compared to Matt Murton. Wily Mo Pena is getting blasted for one bad season...

Let's clear some things up about Wily Mo.

He does not suck. He is not Joe Borchard. He has never been given a full shot, and he has amazing natural talent. David Ortiz once said "Nobody hits a ball like Wily Mo" He is having a bad year, and has been underutilized since being acquired by Boston (their outfield is far, far too crowded, and he should really have been given a shot at a larger role this year after his 2006 season).

his power potential is amazing. and he's only 24.

in 2004 he hit 24 Hrs and had 66 RBIs in only 336 ABs (project to 43 HRs over a full 550 AB season) and slugged .527. total line was .259/.319/.527.

in 2005 he hit 19 HRs and has 51 RBI in only 311 ABs. total line: .254/.304/.492.

In 2006 with the Red Sox he made great strides at the plate in limited playing time. Hitting 11 HRs with 49 RBI in 276 ABs and hitting at .301/.349/.489.

He's having a terrible 2007. But he has potential galore; saying he "sucks" is ridiculous. To show the ability to drive runners in and produce like that at the major league level from the time he was 21 on shows he does not suck.

I was against trading Dye (a proven commodity) for him. But I'm sure we'd trade very little for him through a waiver trade. His upside is huge playing half of his games in US Cellular.

If KW gets him for cheap, this is a fantastic move.
Couldn't have said it better!

santo=dorf
08-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Wily mo doesn't get a fair shot because he's absolutely atrocious in the OF. He is a complete liability and his bat simply does not make up for his poor, poor defense.

Remember the Carl Everett frustration in 2003? Sure his bat was pretty good, but he was not a good defender in CF.

I'll also take an OPS that OBP driven as well because a .304 OBP isn't good.

StillMissOzzie
08-09-2007, 05:03 PM
Face it, Wily Mo Pena is coming to 35th Street.

August 23-26.

Just so long as he's on the team plane out of town on 8/26.

Wily Mo would be a good DH if he could hit.

****, you can say that about ANYBODY.

:hawk
"Where's he gonna play?"

SMO
:gulp:

balke
08-09-2007, 05:52 PM
****, you can say that about ANYBODY.

:hawk
"Where's he gonna play?"

SMO
:gulp:


That was the joke. There's nothing he offers this team. They don't need a power guy in the lineup. They need someone on-base with speed.

Taliesinrk
08-09-2007, 07:05 PM
I think it would be reversed. Why would sit him due to health concerns? He's a better hitter and if he's healthy he'll produce better. You keep Owens to platoon with Pods, and whoever plays CF. IF Pods does go down again, the team has Owens backing him up with speed.

I'd love to see a pods-owens-ozuna trio covering LF and CF next year..

Tragg
08-09-2007, 07:22 PM
I'd love to see a pods-owens-ozuna trio covering LF and CF next year..
Not an arm in the bunch; and not 5 homers between them. That can't score enough runs nor prevent enough to cover 2 positions. 2 of those 3 max.

But you may be right: Ozzie still starts Erstad every chance he gets (after a pitiful 0/5 performance last night, Ozzie wheels him out there again), so he won't let go of his slap-hitters easily.

Taliesinrk
08-09-2007, 07:46 PM
Not an arm in the bunch; and not 5 homers between them. That can't score enough runs nor prevent enough to cover 2 positions. 2 of those 3 max.

But you may be right: Ozzie still starts Erstad every chance he gets (after a pitiful 0/5 performance last night, Ozzie wheels him out there again), so he won't let go of his slap-hitters easily.


Yeah. I forgot about the whole arm thing. Plus, with Richar, we'd be getting kind of slap happy (<-- that's funny). Anyway, I don't know, I just would have a tough time justifying a 15 mil/yr contract to a FA OF when it's like Arow (whom I like, but not at that price). Who knows... I just like speed

Tragg
08-09-2007, 08:42 PM
Anyway, I don't know, I just would have a tough time justifying a 15 mil/yr contract to a FA OF when it's like Arow (whom I like, but not at that price). Who knows... I just like speed
I agree with you on that contract.
We just need BETTER young players in a couple of OF positions, imo.
Sweeney and Anderson both had some power and both could play quality defense and overall higher upsides that what we have now (Owens or Ozzie's veteran slappers). Anderson's probably finished here, and Ozzie didn't keep Sweeney up here very long.
It's disappointing that in a lost year, the low ceiling outfield prospects have had far more ML batting opportunities than have the Sox high ceiling outfield prospects (now due to injury).
Hopefully Sweeney gets healthy, he's called up, and Ozzie plays him every day and/or we trade for a good YOUNG outfielder who has some offensive skill. (and can play d).

Fenway
08-10-2007, 09:38 AM
Just so long as he's on the team plane out of town on 8/26.



:gulp:

Pena will not be in Boston by then.......

His replacement is in Pawtucket waiting for Pena to be moved
Bobby Kielty plays for Triple-A Pawtucket on a contract that has an out if he isnít called up to the Sox within a week. It is believed Kielty would be in line to fill Penaís role as an outfield bat off the bench to be used primarily against left-handed pitching.


http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1016375

Taliesinrk
08-10-2007, 01:42 PM
Pena will not be in Boston by then.......

His replacement is in Pawtucket waiting for Pena to be moved


http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1016375


gonna be an interesting week...

Mohoney
08-15-2007, 02:48 AM
If Wily Mo signs somewhere else as a free agent after this season, would we get draft pick compensation?

Mohoney
08-15-2007, 03:01 AM
People, most prospects aren't going to be like Braun or Pence. Why can't this organization and its fans have any patience with young players. I think Fields and Owens are progressing tremendously, Owens has been reaching base almost every game, granted it's not a 3-run homer, but for a guy early in the lineup getting on-base is the objective.

And yes, he can be worse than Luis Terrero, at least Terrero can catch a ball and draw a walk.

The thing is, though, that we are faced with a very real possibility of 3 outfielders (Pods, Dye, Erstad) not being here next year. If we can get Wily Mo for next to nothing, it wouldn't hurt.

If Dye signs an extension soon, the point is moot, but what if he doesn't? In my opinion, we might as well hedge our bets

Grzegorz
08-15-2007, 04:51 AM
If we can get Wily Mo for next to nothing, it wouldn't hurt.

If Dye signs an extension soon, the point is moot, but what if he doesn't? In my opinion, we might as well hedge our bets

Does playing WMP over Sweeney, Anderson, or Owens really help this team win in the short or long term?

No, so keep WMP away from this team and play the kids.

Mohoney
08-15-2007, 05:23 AM
Does playing WMP over Sweeney, Anderson, or Owens really help this team win in the short or long term?

No, so keep WMP away from this team and play the kids.

Anderson and Sweeney are both injured, IIRC. I don't see how playing Wily Mo this year hinders any of those guys since they can't play anyway.

I hate to quarrel, but Ken Williams flat-out said that we are NOT rebuilding next year, so I see NO WAY that more than one of Sweeney, Owens, or Anderson is in our starting OF next season, and the possibility exists that NONE of those guys start for us next season. Plus, 3 OF openings might crop up.

IMO, Wily Mo for next to nothing does no harm this season. All it does is keep Andy Gonzalez away from LF.

The Immigrant
08-15-2007, 08:46 AM
Does playing WMP over Sweeney, Anderson, or Owens really help this team win in the short or long term?

Well, it obviously depends on where he plays. He hits .282 against LHP and would be a nice platoon partner for Thome in the DH slot. Thome is downright brutal against LHP and is only getting worse. He's gone from having an .803 OPS against lefties in 2004 to .714 in 2006 to .580 in 2007 (stats courtesy of Sox Machine) and is batting only .180/.292/.288 against them this year. He is basically an automatic out against LHP and is brutal to watch - and I like Thome.

WMP would bring value to the White Sox if he is given 200 ABs against LHP as a DH and his glove never sees the field. He would also be nice to have as a PH in late-innings situations to ensure that we never again see a slap-hitter like Cintron or Erstad used as a PH with no baserunners.

DickAllen72
08-15-2007, 05:11 PM
Well, it obviously depends on where he plays. He hits .282 against LHP and would be a nice platoon partner for Thome in the DH slot. Thome is downright brutal against LHP and is only getting worse. He's gone from having an .803 OPS against lefties in 2004 to .714 in 2006 to .580 in 2007 (stats courtesy of Sox Machine) and is batting only .180/.292/.288 against them this year. He is basically an automatic out against LHP and is brutal to watch - and I like Thome.

WMP would bring value to the White Sox if he is given 200 ABs against LHP as a DH and his glove never sees the field. He would also be nice to have as a PH in late-innings situations to ensure that we never again see a slap-hitter like Cintron or Erstad used as a PH with no baserunners.

Good post. All valid points.

upperdeckusc
08-15-2007, 05:42 PM
Well, it obviously depends on where he plays. He hits .282 against LHP and would be a nice platoon partner for Thome in the DH slot. Thome is downright brutal against LHP and is only getting worse. He's gone from having an .803 OPS against lefties in 2004 to .714 in 2006 to .580 in 2007 (stats courtesy of Sox Machine) and is batting only .180/.292/.288 against them this year. He is basically an automatic out against LHP and is brutal to watch - and I like Thome.

WMP would bring value to the White Sox if he is given 200 ABs against LHP as a DH and his glove never sees the field. He would also be nice to have as a PH in late-innings situations to ensure that we never again see a slap-hitter like Cintron or Erstad used as a PH with no baserunners.

very true. also, you have to imagine he'll get A FEW spot starts in RF to rest Dye (if he resigns) or whoever else is out there. ozzie is all about keeping ppl fresh, so you know you'll see pena in the OF in some of those sunday rosters. between the ideas mentioned above, plus my thinking, i think he'd stay relatively active (300ab's?). i think it could be an effective acquiring if we dont give up much. i think its time for us to acquire someone elses trash for an A/AA pitcher....

rowand33
08-16-2007, 09:26 AM
According to the Boston Herald, Wily Mo Pena is on the verge of being traded or designated for assignment by the Red Sox.

A move of some kind is expected by Friday, when the Red Sox will likely use Pena's roster spot for Clay Buchholz. Pena has cleared waivers, so he can be traded anywhere. Buchholz is expected to start Friday, at which point he'll likely be sent back to the minors with Bobby Kielty replacing Pena long term.
Source: Boston Herald (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=1017448)

Looks like he's going somewhere. If he gets designated for assignment and we can get him for nothing, we better grab him.

AzureJazzMan
08-17-2007, 01:04 PM
Well...I guess we can officially proclaim this thread as "Ovah" as the BoSox traded Willy Mo to the Nationals for cash and considerations...