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rowand33
08-07-2007, 12:04 PM
From rotoworld:

According to the Arizona Republic, Eric Byrnes has agreed to a three-year contract extension with the Diamondbacks.

The deal is said to be worth around $30 million and comes shortly after the two sides reportedly broke off negotiations. The newspaper speculates that with Byrnes signed long term and both Chris Young and Justin Upton not going anywhere, the Diamondbacks may look to part with Carlos Quentin.

Looks like Sox fans can scratch him off the 08 wish list (thank god)

102605
08-07-2007, 12:15 PM
That will be similiar $$$ to what Roward would take.

:smile:

jabrch
08-07-2007, 12:21 PM
Good - I wanted nothing to do with Byrnes.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 12:26 PM
Happy about this. I think he's playing over his head and is overrated. I would much rather spend that money on Rowand -- or a more elite player than Byrnes.

Foulke You
08-07-2007, 12:47 PM
Happy about this. I think he's playing over his head and is overrated. I would much rather spend that money on Rowand -- or a more elite player than Byrnes.
Agreed. I think those are NL inflated numbers for Byrnes. We saw what he did in Oakland and it wasn't anything close to what he is doing in AZ this year. I'd rather invest the $30 million in a proven AL commodity like Rowand, Cameron, or spend a bit more for Hunter.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 01:16 PM
God I hope we don't give that kind of money to Rowand. Hunter is one thing, but he'll cost a lot more than that on the open market. Sweeney, Anderson, and Owens are all capable of playing at the league minimum, so let's do that and not waste a ****load of money on the free agent market. I'd rather see KW trade prospects for veterans with manageable contracts than **** us so that we have no flexibility.

oeo
08-07-2007, 01:26 PM
God I hope we don't give that kind of money to Rowand. Hunter is one thing, but he'll cost a lot more than that on the open market. Sweeney, Anderson, and Owens are all capable of playing at the league minimum, so let's do that and not waste a ****load of money on the free agent market. I'd rather see KW trade prospects for veterans with manageable contracts than **** us so that we have no flexibility.

Sweeney, Anderson, and Owens also give us a last place finish. You can't just give that many jobs to inexperienced guys if you expect to contend. You need that veteran presence.

And...
-Owens still hasn't locked up a job.
-Anderson is out for the year and could not hit big league pitching before, what makes you think he can now?
-Apparently Sweeney is hurt now, as well, and he may still need another year in Charlotte.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 01:44 PM
Sweeney, Anderson, and Owens also give us a last place finish. You can't just give that many jobs to inexperienced guys if you expect to contend. You need that veteran presence.

And...
-Owens still hasn't locked up a job.
-Anderson is out for the year and could not hit big league pitching before, what makes you think he can now?
-Apparently Sweeney is hurt now, as well, and he may still need another year in Charlotte.
I'm not saying all of them. Just put one in CF. We'll probably have Fields in LF next year because of Crede's return and the Sox are already negotiating with Dye, so if Dye and Crede come back we'll only have one spot to fill. I say fill it with one of those three instead of paying out the ass for another overrated baseball player.

If we can get Dye at say around $10mil/year, it makes no sense to let him walk and sign Rowand for that amount, or re-sign him and still pick up Rowand for that amount. Actually, it really doesn't make sense to me to sign Rowand for any amount over $5 million per year or so because it's not like he's that great of a player, and it's not like the upgrade he would provide over Sweeney/Anderson/Owens would be worth that much money. Aaron is as inconsistent year to year as Grinderstad and probably will be for the rest of his career. His face-first defense really overshadows the rest of his marginal play.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 01:52 PM
I would rather see Fields stay at third. I love Crede, but I think its time to move on unless we can sign him for a ridiculously low price. Otherwise I would rather see Fields at 3rd, Owens in LF-CF, Dye in RF, and a FA picked up to play CF-LF.

I don't like the idea of overpaying either, but in today's MLB sometimes you have to pay a little extra to get proven MLB talent. I think this will be the case with Rowand.

Mr. White Sox
08-07-2007, 02:04 PM
Agreed. I think those are NL inflated numbers for Byrnes. We saw what he did in Oakland and it wasn't anything close to what he is doing in AZ this year. I'd rather invest the $30 million in a proven AL commodity like Rowand, Cameron, or spend a bit more for Hunter.

This is also great news because I think KW was going to make Byrnes one of his top targets; he would've been cheaper than the "top-tier" guys and has a grinder mentality. I'm more than okay with him not being on the Sox next year. At this point, one of the better bargains out there may be Corey Patterson. I know everyone here hates him, but his defense is unquestionably outstanding (or, at the least, comparable to Rowand, Jones, Cameron, etc.). If KW can get a solid RF/LF bat (Fukudome?) to complement him, I think Patterson would be a better choice than Mike Cameron and much cheaper than the red-flags-a-plenty team of Hunter, Rowand, and Jones.

Of the last three names, I'd prefer Hunter first (unless Rowand comes much, much cheaper), with Jones in last place.

SBSoxFan
08-07-2007, 02:15 PM
This is also great news because I think KW was going to make Byrnes one of his top targets; he would've been cheaper than the "top-tier" guys and has a grinder mentality. I'm more than okay with him not being on the Sox next year. At this point, one of the better bargains out there may be Corey Patterson. I know everyone here hates him, but his defense is unquestionably outstanding (or, at the least, comparable to Rowand, Jones, Cameron, etc.). If KW can get a solid RF/LF bat (Fukudome?) to complement him, I think Patterson would be a better choice than Mike Cameron and much cheaper than the red-flags-a-plenty team of Hunter, Rowand, and Jones.

Of the last three names, I'd prefer Hunter first (unless Rowand comes much, much cheaper), with Jones in last place.

Every time I hear his name I think of Konerko's ball he dropped in Wrigley in 2005.

DSpivack
08-07-2007, 02:22 PM
This is also great news because I think KW was going to make Byrnes one of his top targets; he would've been cheaper than the "top-tier" guys and has a grinder mentality. I'm more than okay with him not being on the Sox next year. At this point, one of the better bargains out there may be Corey Patterson. I know everyone here hates him, but his defense is unquestionably outstanding (or, at the least, comparable to Rowand, Jones, Cameron, etc.). If KW can get a solid RF/LF bat (Fukudome?) to complement him, I think Patterson would be a better choice than Mike Cameron and much cheaper than the red-flags-a-plenty team of Hunter, Rowand, and Jones.

Of the last three names, I'd prefer Hunter first (unless Rowand comes much, much cheaper), with Jones in last place.

Is Fukudome a corner OF or CF?

upperdeckusc
08-07-2007, 02:27 PM
im pretty sure i heard he's a RF

Mr. White Sox
08-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Every time I hear his name I think of Konerko's ball he dropped in Wrigley in 2005.

Yeah, that was an embarrassing play. I think he's cut down on those mistakes since then, though. I have to admit that Rowand has also corrected his faults from 2005; he's made some great catches and in the few PHI games I've seen his route-running is much improved.

Fukudome is a corner OF, btw.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Happy about this. I think he's playing over his head and is overrated. I would much rather spend that money on Rowand -- or a more elite player than Byrnes.
Rowand=Byrnes with shorter hair.
Agreed. I think those are NL inflated numbers for Byrnes. We saw what he did in Oakland and it wasn't anything close to what he is doing in AZ this year. I'd rather invest the $30 million in a proven AL commodity like Rowand, Cameron, or spend a bit more for Hunter.
What has Rowand really proven in the AL besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.
I would rather see Fields stay at third. I love Crede, but I think its time to move on unless we can sign him for a ridiculously low price. Otherwise I would rather see Fields at 3rd, Owens in LF-CF, Dye in RF, and a FA picked up to play CF-LF.

I don't like the idea of overpaying either, but in today's MLB sometimes you have to pay a little extra to get proven MLB talent. I think this will be the case with Rowand.
I'll take my last comment 1 step further What has Rowand really proven in the ML's besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 02:53 PM
Rowand=Byrnes with shorter hair.

What has Rowand really proven in the AL besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.

I'll take my last comment 1 step further What has Rowand really proven in the ML's besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.

I wont argue to much of that, because most of it is true. I don't like to many of the CF options this offseason, so let me ask you this. Would you rather pay Byrnes money for Rowand, or 15+ mil for Hunter or Jones?

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 03:01 PM
I wont argue to much of that, because most of it is true. I don't like to many of the CF options this offseason, so let me ask you this. Would you rather pay Byrnes money for Rowand, or 15+ mil for Hunter or Jones?
I will answer your question with a question:
10 million for 16-24 hrs, 80 RBI's with average defense over-rated because of his daredevil mindset.
OR
15 million for between 30-45 hrs, 110-130 RBI's with highly above average defense and in Jones case at times under-rated defense due to lack of wall crashing and diving?
Give me Jones or Hunter at 15 million. Now will those guys get 15 million, no they will get 18-20 and I would still go with them over Rowand at 10.

rowand33
08-07-2007, 03:18 PM
Ignore my screen name on this one...

Rowand=Byrnes with shorter hair.

They're similar players, I'll give you that.

Before the 2005 season, rotoworld described Rowand as a poor man's Beltran and Byrnes as a poor man's Rowand.

And Rowand's number back his superiority to Byrnes up. Byrnes career line:
.268/.329/.457.
Rowand's: .285/.342/.513.

Pretty big difference there.

And Rowand's a better fielder IMO. But I haven't seen Byrnes play since he was with the A's.

What has Rowand really proven in the AL besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.

Well, there's his 2004 season where he hit .310/.361/.544, came very close to 25/20 and 100 runs scored in almost 487 ABs.

That was supposed to be his breakout season. In 2005, he regressed at the plate a little bit. But he's appeared to have found his stroke again this year with the Phils going .315/.384/.513 so far.

Are 04 and 07 the type of player Rowand is? Are 05 and 06? Is it somewhere in between?

Time will tell. But he hasn't had a single season over the last four years where he wouldn't merit being a starter. He's proven plenty, and showed in 2 out of the last 4 seasons that it is possible for to put up allstar quality numbers.

I'll take my last comment 1 step further What has Rowand really proven in the ML's besides being able to take bad routes? He is a better fielding Matt Murton.

See above.

He also was an allstar this year. I believe that qualifies as proving something.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 03:29 PM
Ignore my screen name on this one...



They're similar players, I'll give you that.

Before the 2005 season, rotoworld described Rowand as a poor man's Beltran and Byrnes as a poor man's Rowand.

And Rowand's number back his superiority to Byrnes up. Byrnes career line:
.268/.329/.457.
Rowand's: .285/.342/.513.

Pretty big difference there.

And Rowand's a better fielder IMO. But I haven't seen Byrnes play since he was with the A's.



Well, there's his 2004 season where he hit .310/.361/.544, came very close to 25/20 and 100 runs scored in almost 487 ABs.

That was supposed to be his breakout season. In 2005, he regressed at the plate a little bit. But he's appeared to have found his stroke again this year with the Phils going .315/.384/.513 so far.

Are 04 and 07 the type of player Rowand is? Are 05 and 06? Is it somewhere in between?

Time will tell. But he hasn't had a single season over the last four years where he wouldn't merit being a starter. He's proven plenty, and showed in 2 out of the last 4 seasons that it is possible for to put up allstar quality numbers.



See above.

He also was an allstar this year. I believe that qualifies as proving something.
Has he proven to be a 10 million a year player? I say no. Was he an all-star, yes but that had a lot of ESPN influence to it.

rowand33
08-07-2007, 03:37 PM
Has he proven to be a 10 million a year player? I say no. Was he an all-star, yes but that had a lot of ESPN influence to it.

that wasn't your ponit though. Your point was he hadn't proven anything. He's proven plenty, and a helluva lot more than Byrnes.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 03:44 PM
that wasn't your ponit though. Your point was he hadn't proven anything. He's proven plenty, and a helluva lot more than Byrnes.
I truly disagree he had 1 1/2 seasons.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 04:12 PM
So its Rowand for 10 million or Hunter/Jones for 18-20.

Which is more realistic for this organization? I'd love Hunter and Jones also, I wouldn't mind paying that much for a contract 3-4 years, but i don't think it will happen. This is my opinion. So I'm starting to see the other options out there and what might be more realistic, and it looks like we might be settling on Rowand -- yet this settling is better than what we have now.

balke
08-07-2007, 04:15 PM
So its Rowand for 10 million or Hunter/Jones for 18-20.

Which is more realistic for this organization? I'd love Hunter and Jones also, I wouldn't mind paying that much for a contract 3-4 years, but i don't think it will happen. This is my opinion. So I'm starting to see the other options out there and what might be more realistic, and it looks like we might be settling on Rowand -- yet this settling is better than what we have now.

Haha, those millions are way off. The only team that would pay Hunter 18 million is the White Sox, to keep him off of the Twins. He's not going to get that much $$$. Jones really hurt himself this season too. I see both getting anywhere from 14-18 per year depending on how many years.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 04:16 PM
Haha, those millions are way off. The only team that would pay Hunter 18 million is the White Sox, to keep him off of the Twins. He's not going to get that much $$$. Jones really hurt himself this season too. I see both getting anywhere from 12-17 per year depending on how many years.

I hope you are right, but I fear you aren't. Look at Soriano and Zito. Contracts are going way up in a hurry. Wont be hard to find a team to give them 15-20 mil.

MisterB
08-07-2007, 04:17 PM
15 million for between 30-45 hrs, 110-130 RBI's with highly above average defense and in Jones case at times under-rated defense due to lack of wall crashing and diving?
Give me Jones or Hunter at 15 million. Now will those guys get 15 million, no they will get 18-20 and I would still go with them over Rowand at 10.

Hunter has hit 30+ homers only once (31 last year) and has had 100+ rbi's only once (102 on '03).

No way I'm paying $15M+ for what's more likely a .275/25/90 hitter, no matter how good his defense is.

balke
08-07-2007, 04:19 PM
I hope you are right, but I fear you aren't. Look at Soriano and Zito. Contracts are going way up in a hurry. Wont be hard to find a team to give them 15-20 mil.

Yeah, I had to change those #'s after I posted. 14-18 I can see. Right now the Yanks have Damon, and I don't know if Boston is ready to get a new CFer or not. The market might make a shift.

Marqhead
08-07-2007, 04:49 PM
Hunter has hit 30+ homers only once (31 last year) and has had 100+ rbi's only once (102 on '03).

No way I'm paying $15M+ for what's more likely a .275/25/90 hitter, no matter how good his defense is.

What then do you propose we do about center? I don't like the situation as much as the next guy, I'm just trying to feel out all the possibilities and what the people on this board think might happen///want to happen.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
So its Rowand for 10 million or Hunter/Jones for 18-20.

Which is more realistic for this organization? I'd love Hunter and Jones also, I wouldn't mind paying that much for a contract 3-4 years, but i don't think it will happen. This is my opinion. So I'm starting to see the other options out there and what might be more realistic, and it looks like we might be settling on Rowand -- yet this settling is better than what we have now.
Let's say Aaron gets 10 million per and Hunter/Jones gets 18 million per.

Career:
Rowand: .285/.342/.457
Hunter: .271/.324/.470
Jones: .263/.343/.500

Defensively I guess you'd rank them Hunter, Rowand, Jones since I guess Jones has lost a step (although I haven't really watched him play this year that seems to be the consensus). Hunter owns Rowand on defense, that's not even debatable without wearing Sox-colored glasses. So realistically the best bargain here is probably Rowand for $10 million overall.

Still, I'd like to see the Sox come up with a young player making the minimum for CF. We don't play in PetCo or anything so we don't need an elite defender, just a pretty good one. I'd rather see that $10 mil or so go to offense or pitching. I wouldn't be adverse to doing something way out of the box like dealing Garland for young players/prospects and throwing $18mil/year at Zambrano. I doubt KW would do that, but something like that would be a better use of money IMO.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 05:47 PM
Let's say Aaron gets 10 million per and Hunter/Jones gets 18 million per.

Career:
Rowand: .285/.342/.457
Hunter: .271/.324/.470
Jones: .263/.343/.500

Defensively I guess you'd rank them Hunter, Rowand, Jones since I guess Jones has lost a step (although I haven't really watched him play this year that seems to be the consensus). Hunter owns Rowand on defense, that's not even debatable without wearing Sox-colored glasses. So realistically the best bargain here is probably Rowand for $10 million overall.

Still, I'd like to see the Sox come up with a young player making the minimum for CF. We don't play in PetCo or anything so we don't need an elite defender, just a pretty good one. I'd rather see that $10 mil or so go to offense or pitching. I wouldn't be adverse to doing something way out of the box like dealing Garland for young players/prospects and throwing $18mil/year at Zambrano. I doubt KW would do that, but something like that would be a better use of money IMO.
Rowand is no where near the player that is Andruw Jones

BadBobbyJenks
08-07-2007, 05:52 PM
Im not sure how you put rowand ahead of andruw in any scenario. He is still a gold glover. And there is no way Andruw does not get at least 17 mil per.



Sign me up for rowand at 10 and dye at 10

the1tab
08-07-2007, 06:08 PM
Reportedly 3 years @ $30 million for this year's overachiever. I've been talking him up on this message board as a guy that would fit really well w/ the Sox, and now he's staying put in Arizona.

More pressing issue: If Kenny Williams is going to go after the big names he allegedly is targeting this winter (see Sun Times 08/07 edition), what does $10m per mean to Andruw Jones or Torii Hunter's W2s?

:(:

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 06:09 PM
Rowand is no where near the player that is Andruw Jones
Offensively, hell no he's not and I never said he was. Defensively, like I said I haven't seen him play but it seems the word is he hasn't been the same player this year. And Rowand isn't even close to Hunter either. Both Jones and Hunter are future HOFers, and Rowand doesn't even come close to that.

Hunter and Rowand are both having much better years this year than Jones is. I'm not sure you'd want to give that much money over 4+ years to a guy who is hitting .217/.316/.426 and having by far the worst year of his career since 1997, which was his first full year in MLB. Yeah, he'll probably bounce back, but he could also be a really bad contract waiting to happen.

Taliesinrk
08-07-2007, 06:14 PM
I was thinking the same thing.. does that mean that it just became harder to re-sign Dye?

upperdeckusc
08-07-2007, 06:18 PM
I was thinking the same thing.. does that mean that it just became harder to re-sign Dye?

I doubt it. That signing doesn't change the fact he was terrible in the first half and will have, overall, a disappointing yr. That, along with the fact he said he wants to stay in Chicago, I think we'll be able to get him at a decent price for 2 yrs. Unless we find a similar situation thru free agency/trades for a RF. Then he or thome would become expendable.

soxinem1
08-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Byrnes signing is not a bad thing, as it means he is very tradeable. I'm sure KW will inquire about him in the off-season.

churlish
08-07-2007, 09:49 PM
Both Jones and Hunter are future HOFers, and Rowand doesn't even come close to that.


Teal??? The closest Hunter will ever get to the Hall of Fame is as a visitor. He's a .270 hitter with some pop in his bat who plays great defense.

If the Sox give either of these guys $15 million, I will be very sick.

getonbckthr
08-07-2007, 09:50 PM
Teal??? The closest Hunter will ever get to the Hall of Fame is as a visitor. He's a .270 hitter with some pop in his bat who plays great defense.

If the Sox give either of these guys $15 million, I will be very sick.
Better than 10 million for Rowand

TheOldRoman
08-07-2007, 10:00 PM
Teal??? The closest Hunter will ever get to the Hall of Fame is as a visitor. He's a .270 hitter with some pop in his bat who played great defense.

If the Sox give either of these guys $15 million, I will be very sick.I fixed it for you. Hunter was always overrated, and he has lost a few steps.

oeo
08-07-2007, 10:01 PM
Better than 10 million for Rowand

:rolleyes:

Why? Some of the Rowand hate is ridiculous. That's a good deal, if you ask me.

Paying Andruw Jones that kind of money? :puking:

TheOldRoman
08-07-2007, 10:01 PM
Yeah, he'll probably bounce back, but he could also be a really bad contract waiting to happen.Nobody will get the chance to give Jones a horrible contract. In true Borass fashion, Jones will sign a one year deal. He will finally work out, come into camp in shape for the first time in years, and probably have a much better season, allowing him to sign a monster deal in 09.

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 11:19 PM
Nobody will get the chance to give Jones a horrible contract. In true Borass fashion, Jones will sign a one year deal. He will finally work out, come into camp in shape for the first time in years, and probably have a much better season, allowing him to sign a monster deal in 09.
You never know. They all said the same thing about Maggs before he signed a contract that was at the time massive. Maybe another Tiger's-like team in a Tigers-like situation will do the same?

UserNameBlank
08-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Teal??? The closest Hunter will ever get to the Hall of Fame is as a visitor. He's a .270 hitter with some pop in his bat who plays great defense.

If the Sox give either of these guys $15 million, I will be very sick.
6 consecutive Gold Gloves and he's 32. There will probably be more to come, including a seventh this year.

balke
08-08-2007, 12:42 AM
6 consecutive Gold Gloves and he's 32. There will probably be more to come, including a seventh this year.

32? Pretty old. The only reason I'd support the GIDP King's acquirement is to keep him from the Twins. I won't cry if he stays in Minnesota though. Without a contract year, I don't see him hitting like this ever again.