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View Full Version : Time to DL Contreras?


rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 09:22 AM
There's nothing really to be gained by sending him out to get shelled every 5th day. Perhaps a little R & R for the rest of the season would do him some good and put him in better shape heading into 2008. I know that this is more of an NBA-type move, but maybe it would be best if he came down with a mystery ailment.

Goose
08-01-2007, 09:29 AM
I think this is exactly what is going to happen. They will find something wrong with him and put him on the 15 day. It makes sense to do it (there may actually be something wrong with him)...but it makes no sense to throw him into the bullpen. I think that doing this will diminish any trade value that he still may have for the waiver deadline...

sox1970
08-01-2007, 09:32 AM
They should DL him now, and sit him for at least a month. Bring up Jack Egbert and see what he can do.

ilsox7
08-01-2007, 09:34 AM
DL him and let Gavin start for a couple of months.

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 09:35 AM
They should DL him now, and sit him for at least a month. Bring up Jack Egbert and see what he can do.

I think that would be rushing him a little, I'm not a big fan of the AA to the majors jump. I'd let Floyd get knocked around for a month or so and see if he can improve.

sox1970
08-01-2007, 09:39 AM
I think that would be rushing him a little, I'm not a big fan of the AA to the majors jump. I'd let Floyd get knocked around for a month or so and see if he can improve.

Seeing that Egbert played college ball, and is 24, I don't think it would be rushing him in his case. He's had about 500 innings of minor league experience. If he can pitch, he can pitch. Let's see what he can do.

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 10:04 AM
Seeing that Egbert played college ball, and is 24... He's had about 500 innings of minor league experience.

Good points, but I'm still not a fan of the AA to the majors jump. I'd like for him to finish the season in AA or AAA and then fight for a spot in ST.

dickallen15
08-01-2007, 10:06 AM
DL him and let Gavin start for a couple of months.
You want things in that spot to be even worse?

Chicken Dinner
08-01-2007, 10:10 AM
Sure am glad Kenny had him sign that extension. Looks like the Sox are going to eat 20 million on another KW boo boo.

eriqjaffe
08-01-2007, 10:11 AM
You want things in that spot to be even worse?At this point in their respective careers, Contreras has nowhere to go but down, and Floyd has nowhere to go but up. There's really nothing to lose at this point.

dickallen15
08-01-2007, 10:14 AM
At this point in their respective careers, Contreras has nowhere to go but down, and Floyd has nowhere to go but up. There's really nothing to lose at this point.
I disagree. Contreras at least has had some success. Floyd has been getting worse every season in the majors.

Huisj
08-01-2007, 10:14 AM
I could see this happening, but maybe not until MacDougal is ready to come off the DL. What's his status? Haven't heard anything about him lately at all.

CHIsoxNation
08-01-2007, 10:15 AM
After reading this, I don't think it would be a bad idea at all to give the guy some time off...


The big hurdle facing Cooper is making sure Contreras' off-the-field distractions are not the reasons for his landslide on the field. Contreras (5-14) and his wife are going through a divorce, and he hasn't seemed right since that news hit him at the start of the season.


http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/491879,CST-SPT-sox01.article

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 10:16 AM
I disagree. Contreras at least has had some success. Floyd has been getting worse every season in the majors.

But unless he pitches in the majors we'll never know if he can adjust. What if the Sox had said the same thing about Garland in 2001/2002 and had just forgotten about him?

People complain about us "not developing pitchers". Well if we don't let them develop, how in the world are we going to change that!?

decolores9628
08-01-2007, 10:18 AM
Floyd has only had 21 starts in his career. I think we should give him an extended look

chaerulez
08-01-2007, 10:20 AM
Good points, but I'm still not a fan of the AA to the majors jump. I'd like for him to finish the season in AA or AAA and then fight for a spot in ST.

Players going from AA to the majors isn't rare.

champagne030
08-01-2007, 10:22 AM
DL him and let Gavin start for a couple of months.

:o:

You want things in that spot to be even worse?

Well, on second thought, maybe we should let him get his **** kicked in for a month and end any thoughts KW may have about him being in the mix next season. Awww, ****, who am I kidding? Floyd's a grinder. :cool:

Flight #24
08-01-2007, 10:24 AM
Sox need to figure out if there's any hope of generating enough value in Jose to get another team to take his salary. If that's continuing to start him and hoping he pulls out of it, fine. If that's DLing him for a stretch and then bringing him back in time to make some starts and prove he's a decent bottom-of-the-rotation starter, that's fine too.

I'd say the 15-day DL would be the thing to do, but coming out of a long layoff following the ASB, he sucked as well. It's confusing because there hasn't been a similar cliff-like dropoff that I can recall from a guy being dominant to absolutely sucking in 6-9months absent an injury.

I mean it's not even like he has an occasional good game, he's uniformly horrible. You'd think he'd at least be able to pull it together for a game here and there if it was primarily mental.

jdm2662
08-01-2007, 10:25 AM
Jose is the perfect example of a lingering injury in the majors, inflammed ERA.

eriqjaffe
08-01-2007, 10:30 AM
I disagree. Contreras at least has had some success. Floyd has been getting worse every season in the majors.Contreras has, with the exception of half of 2005 and half of 2006, been a replacement-level (at best) major league pitcher. His velocity is down, his movement has flattened, he's at least 35 years old. He is decidedly on the downside of his career. Take out that one period of quality pitching, and his career ERA is 5.21.

Sure, Floyd hasn't impressed, but he's only pitched 123 innings at the major league level. He needs an extended tryout, and this is the season to do that.

Chicken Dinner
08-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Maybe we should find out who Zach Greinkes head doctor was and send him there. :?:

dickallen15
08-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Floyd has only had 21 starts in his career. I think we should give him an extended look
So his 8 homers and over 10.00 era in 14 innings warrants a shot at the rotation? He has over 100 innings of major league service and not only has showed nothing, he's getting worse. He doesn't deserve the opportunity. Make him earn it.

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 10:33 AM
Players going from AA to the majors isn't rare.

Hmmmmmmmm. It might not be all that rare, but the question is are they successful? Birmingham is a huge ballpark, long fly outs there are homers at the Cell. Charlotte however, is a hitters haven. I really would like to see some of the guys like Gio and Egbert pitch there before getting called up.

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 10:34 AM
So his 8 homers and over 10.00 era in 14 innings warrants a shot at the rotation? He has over 100 innings of major league service and not only has showed nothing, he's getting worse. He doesn't deserve the opportunity. Make him earn it.

How is he supposed to "earn it". He was dominating AAA, so what else can he do?

balke
08-01-2007, 10:35 AM
Contreras doing bad. Sox fan MAD. SOX FAN SMASH! GAVIN FLOYD rah! rah! rah!

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him get some rest for next season, but I don't know if DLing him and giving him a break is going to the best thing for him or not. Hopefully if they do that, the Sox can work out a scenario where he is still training off and on with the team, and staying in shape.

dickallen15
08-01-2007, 10:37 AM
How is he supposed to "earn it". He was dominating AAA, so what else can he do?
Well he was horrid in his 2 starts and not too impressive in the bullpen. How about having a few nice outings out of the bullpen before he gets a shot at starting. Maybe show he can get major league hitters out once in a while. Having a decent ERA in your 4th season of AAA just doesn't impress me that much. Prinz had a great ERA in AAA and he was released.

ilsox7
08-01-2007, 10:43 AM
Gavin is out of options after this year. It's imperative to find out now if he has a shot at being a major league starter. If not, then we go into next year with him as our #5 and no idea what we'll get. If he sucks for 2 months this year, you can feel better about closing the book on him. If he remains an unknown, you can bet there is a good chance he is with the big club next April.

The Immigrant
08-01-2007, 10:45 AM
Floyd has been getting worse every season in the majors.

That's probably how Tribe fans felt about Fausto Carmona last year, but the team's patience with him paid off. I'm not saying Floyd will replicate Carmona's success, but we have nothing to lose by giving him a few scheduled starts to see if he can show some progress.

champagne030
08-01-2007, 10:45 AM
But unless he pitches in the majors we'll never know if he can adjust. What if the Sox had said the same thing about Garland in 2001/2002 and had just forgotten about him?

People complain about us "not developing pitchers". Well if we don't let them develop, how in the world are we going to change that!?

I understand your point, but don't use Garland as an example. Floyd can only dream of doing what Jon did in 2001/2002. Maybe you're referring to 2000, but I still don't buy that because Garland showed flashes - he'd just implode in one inning. Floyd shows zero, zip, nada. His two-seamer has okay movement (that he cannot control), but is 89-90 mph. His four-seamer is 90-92 and he cannot throw it low in the zone. He has a plus curve, at times, but way, way too often gets behind it and it just rolls up to the plate.

I haven't seen him pitch at Charlotte this season. His numbers were impressive, but I'd like to know what was behind them. Up here, people lay off his two-seamer, wait until he falls behind in the count and crush the four-seamer or anytime he rolls a curve up to the plate. Did AAA guys chase the two-seamer? I get the feeling he was always working ahead in the count in Charlotte and his stuff isn't good enough to get ahead up here. :dunno:

BainesHOF
08-01-2007, 10:46 AM
For a couple weeks now I thought putting Contreras on the DL was the thing to do. I think it's finally going to happen.

Perhaps a buyout of his contract is coming.

eriqjaffe
08-01-2007, 10:48 AM
Well he was horrid in his 2 starts and not too impressive in the bullpen. How about having a few nice outings out of the bullpen before he gets a shot at starting. Maybe show he can get major league hitters out once in a while. Having a decent ERA in your 4th season of AAA just doesn't impress me that much. Prinz had a great ERA in AAA and he was released.You seem to be having difficulty with the concept of a player's potential. Contreras is playing at his potential right now - and he's brutal - I'm talking Scott Schoenweis brutal. Floyd is a player who has some promise, although he has yet to play up to anything approaching it. Sure, he may be a bust, but he deserves a chance on a rebuilding team infinitely more than a money pit like Contreras does. Better to pitch a guy who at least can improve as opposed to pitching a guy who is 35 (at least) and probably done.

The important thing is that at this point in the season, there is absolutely nothing to lose by putting Floyd out there every five days. It's not like Floyd stinking is going to keep us out of the playoffs or anything.

soxinem1
08-01-2007, 10:53 AM
By securing his 14th loss so early in the season yesterday, Jose needs only six more to reach 20 losses. I remember the Todd Ritchie countdown a few years ago, and believe me, this is not something any of us Sox fans look forward to.

While I do not want to seem like I am gloating by any means over Contreras' consistent failures lately, I would think it is high time to drop him from the rotation and go to the pen and work on his issues.

And not to beat a dead horse, but how much of this do Contreras, the team, and the fans have to watch? Why bother going to the games he starts when you know it will end up in a loss?

At the same token, valuable experience can be given to Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. Gonzalez can break into the bigs with no pressure, and the Sox need to see what they have with Floyd, because either he makes the team in 2008, or he would be lost.

Why is Ozzie delaying the inevitable?

balke
08-01-2007, 10:57 AM
You seem to be having difficulty with the concept of a player's potential. Contreras is playing at his potential right now - and he's brutal - I'm talking Scott Schoenweis brutal. Floyd is a player who has some promise, although he has yet to play up to anything approaching it. Sure, he may be a bust, but he deserves a chance on a rebuilding team infinitely more than a money pit like Contreras does. Better to pitch a guy who at least can improve as opposed to pitching a guy who is 35 (at least) and probably done.

The important thing is that at this point in the season, there is absolutely nothing to lose by putting Floyd out there every five days. It's not like Floyd stinking is going to keep us out of the playoffs or anything.


How is this Contreras' potential? He started off the season as the team's ace. How did that happen if this is the best he can do? He's still got 3 times the amount of pitches Floyd has, and better movement on everything. All he doesn't have is focus it would seem. Rest him if you want, and play Gavin. Just don't get your hopes up that Gavin is going to magically be awakened because of all the glorious MLB opportunity he is getting.

That is a huge problem on this board lately, everyone thinks giving MLB experience to a minor league prospect is going to somehow elevate his game. It hasn't worked that way with anyone yet. This stud had a +6 era in triple A last season.

As Dennis Green would say "Gavin Floyd is exactly who we think he is".

dickallen15
08-01-2007, 10:59 AM
You seem to be having difficulty with the concept of a player's potential. Contreras is playing at his potential right now - and he's brutal - I'm talking Scott Schoenweis brutal. Floyd is a player who has some promise, although he has yet to play up to anything approaching it. Sure, he may be a bust, but he deserves a chance on a rebuilding team infinitely more than a money pit like Contreras does. Better to pitch a guy who at least can improve as opposed to pitching a guy who is 35 (at least) and probably done.

The important thing is that at this point in the season, there is absolutely nothing to lose by putting Floyd out there every five days. It's not like Floyd stinking is going to keep us out of the playoffs or anything.
I think Contreras is better than he's pitching right now. He did have a stretch were he was pretty good this year, and was maybe the best pitcher in baseball a little more than a year ago. Floyd has never been good. He never will be good. Giving him opportunities he hasn't earned isn't going to make him grow any stones. You are doing him and guys who actually do well but never get the opportunities a disservice by handing him the ball every 5th day. El Duque was also done when he left the Sox, but he seems to be doing better than Gavin Floyd right now.

salty99
08-01-2007, 11:07 AM
It's time for him to retire, that's what it's time for.

kitekrazy
08-01-2007, 11:07 AM
By securing his 14th loss so early in the season yesterday, Jose needs only six more to reach 20 losses. I remember the Todd Ritchie countdown a few years ago, and believe me, this is not something any of us Sox fans look forward to.

While I do not want to seem like I am gloating by any means over Contreras' consistent failures lately, I would think it is high time to drop him from the rotation and go to the pen and work on his issues.

And not to beat a dead horse, but how much of this do Contreras, the team, and the fans have to watch? Why bother going to the games he starts when you know it will end up in a loss?

At the same token, valuable experience can be given to Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd. Gonzalez can break into the bigs with no pressure, and the Sox need to see what they have with Floyd, because either he makes the team in 2008, or he would be lost.

Why is Ozzie delaying the inevitable?

It's looking like a Contreras start is demoralizing the team. We assume it's an automatic loss and I'm sure players feel that way. They just aren't losses but embarrassing losses.

Hopefully this is also an incentive to lock up Garland.

balke
08-01-2007, 11:12 AM
I don't think anyone was, or would be talking like this 5 games ago. He is horrible now, don't get me wrong and I even think it might be wise to give him a break... but let's not get carried away. He has 9 quality starts this season, which is 2 more than Danks and he was looking good after the first game of the season, all the way to about mid June. Then he really went downhill the past 5 games. Something is going on right now, but its not related to him needing to enter retirement or being done. He has absolutely filthy movement on his pitches and there's a way to iron that out for sure. its most likely in his head.

sox1970
08-01-2007, 11:26 AM
I don't think anyone was, or would be talking like this 5 games ago. He is horrible now, don't get me wrong and I even think it might be wise to give him a break... but let's not get carried away. He has 9 quality starts this season, which is 2 more than Danks and he was looking good after the first game of the season, all the way to about mid June. Then he really went downhill the past 5 games. Something is going on right now, but its not related to him needing to enter retirement or being done. He has absolutely filthy movement on his pitches and there's a way to iron that out for sure. its most likely in his head.

Last 35 starts--14 quality starts, 6.10 ERA

Last 6--0-6 with a 12.09 ERA

It's time.

soxfan13
08-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I don't think anyone was, or would be talking like this 5 games ago. He is horrible now, don't get me wrong and I even think it might be wise to give him a break... but let's not get carried away.He has 9 quality starts this season, which is 2 more than Danks and he was looking good after the first game of the season, all the way to about mid June. Then he really went downhill the past 5 games. Something is going on right now, but its not related to him needing to enter retirement or being done. He has absolutely filthy movement on his pitches and there's a way to iron that out for sure. its most likely in his head.

What about the 5 games before this. He has had his spots but overall he has been very ****ty all year.

southside rocks
08-01-2007, 11:32 AM
Why is Ozzie delaying the inevitable?


He might not be, from this on the White Sox website today:

Guillen talked very pointedly about Jose Contreras, his struggling starter who has lost 23 times since the 2006 All-Star break and slipped to 5-14 this season, allowing seven runs on eight hits over 2 2/3 innings on Tuesday. After giving the affable right-hander every chance to work his way out of what has basically become a season-long slump, the White Sox manager mentioned how Contreras might be removed from the rotation before his next start Sunday in Detroit.

If they pull Contreras from the rotation, it would be announced in the next day or so. I really hope that action is taken.

balke
08-01-2007, 11:32 AM
Last 35 starts--14 quality starts, 6.10 ERA

Last 6--0-6 with a 12.09 ERA

It's time.

That would be a miracle run for Gavin Floyd at this point.

balke
08-01-2007, 11:35 AM
What about the 5 games before this. He has had his spots but overall he has been very ****ty all year.

In the past 5 starts his ERA rose from 4.63 to 6.22. Before this season, 4.63 is what you'd expect and accept from Vazquez.

Again, I agree he should be sent down. The buyout/retirement talk is a bit much though.

kitekrazy
08-01-2007, 12:12 PM
Last 35 starts--14 quality starts, 6.10 ERA

Last 6--0-6 with a 12.09 ERA

It's time.

He's been the worst pitcher in baseball from the 2nd half of 2006 to the first half of 2007. You owe it to the team to get him out of the rotation.

kitekrazy
08-01-2007, 12:14 PM
Again, I agree he should be sent down. The buyout/retirement talk is a bit much though.

Can they send him down without being on the DL? I thought veteran players have to be put on waivers before you can send them down.

wdelaney72
08-01-2007, 12:16 PM
The Sox have to ride him out til the waiver deadline. There's always a chance that a SP on a contending team has an injury and would possibly pick him up. Once waiver deadline is over, then yes, he sits to allow some of the prospects to get MLB starts.

oeo
08-01-2007, 12:21 PM
I don't think anyone was, or would be talking like this 5 games ago. He is horrible now, don't get me wrong and I even think it might be wise to give him a break... but let's not get carried away. He has 9 quality starts this season, which is 2 more than Danks and he was looking good after the first game of the season, all the way to about mid June. Then he really went downhill the past 5 games. Something is going on right now, but its not related to him needing to enter retirement or being done. He has absolutely filthy movement on his pitches and there's a way to iron that out for sure. its most likely in his head.

He's been inconsistent all year. He's had a few good starts here and there, but that's it. And this has been the case for him since after that DL stint in May of 2006. Ever since then, he's been Mr. Inconsistent. Now, he's not even that, he's instead Mr. Consistent...consistently bad.

This is why the Sox are always hesitant to give pitchers more than 3 year contracts. I don't think I've ever seen them in a situation such as this one, where they owe a pitcher this much money, and he's not giving us any results. This is a very bad feeling, so I'm glad the Sox are never willing to give pitchers long term contracts.

Paulwny
08-01-2007, 12:35 PM
Can they send him down without being on the DL? I thought veteran players have to be put on waivers before you can send them down.

He can't be sent down unless it's for rehab, you are correct.
For pitchers rehab in the minors is a 30 days max, for position players it's 20 days max.

balke
08-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Can they send him down without being on the DL? I thought veteran players have to be put on waivers before you can send them down.

DL'd is what I should've said.

champagne030
08-01-2007, 01:18 PM
so I'm glad the Sox are never willing to give pitchers long term contracts.

clears throat........

:burly

You wish they hadn't signed me???

oeo
08-01-2007, 01:20 PM
clears throat........

:burly

You wish they hadn't signed me???

I'm talking Barry Zito long. I knew they would go at least four years for Mark, but anything beyond that is a big risk. Even four is quite long, but the Sox and Buehrle have a good relationship, so an exception was made.

RCWHITESOX
08-01-2007, 01:22 PM
Sox need to figure out if there's any hope of generating enough value in Jose to get another team to take his salary. If that's continuing to start him and hoping he pulls out of it, fine. If that's DLing him for a stretch and then bringing him back in time to make some starts and prove he's a decent bottom-of-the-rotation starter, that's fine too.

I'd say the 15-day DL would be the thing to do, but coming out of a long layoff following the ASB, he sucked as well. It's confusing because there hasn't been a similar cliff-like dropoff that I can recall from a guy being dominant to absolutely sucking in 6-9months absent an injury.

I mean it's not even like he has an occasional good game, he's uniformly horrible. You'd think he'd at least be able to pull it together for a game here and there if it was primarily mental.
The only way we can get anything for Contreras is at gun point or if we have Garland switch identities with him for a couple of starts. It hurts just to watch him pitch.

soxfan13
08-01-2007, 01:38 PM
He's been inconsistent all year. He's had a few good starts here and there, but that's it. And this has been the case for him since after that DL stint in May of 2006. Ever since then, he's been Mr. Inconsistent. Now, he's not even that, he's instead Mr. Consistent...consistently bad.

This is why the Sox are always hesitant to give pitchers more than 3 year contracts. I don't think I've ever seen them in a situation such as this one, where they owe a pitcher this much money, and he's not giving us any results. This is a very bad feeling, so I'm glad the Sox are never willing to give pitchers long term contracts.

Jamie Navarro:tongue:

IlliniSox4Life
08-01-2007, 01:42 PM
He's been inconsistent all year. He's had a few good starts here and there, but that's it. And this has been the case for him since after that DL stint in May of 2006. Ever since then, he's been Mr. Inconsistent. Now, he's not even that, he's instead Mr. Consistent...consistently bad.

This is why the Sox are always hesitant to give pitchers more than 3 year contracts. I don't think I've ever seen them in a situation such as this one, where they owe a pitcher this much money, and he's not giving us any results. This is a very bad feeling, so I'm glad the Sox are never willing to give pitchers long term contracts.


It all depends on the pitcher. Obviously, Zito length is insane no matter who the pitcher. 3 years to a guy like Jose who could be roughly 74 years old seems insane (although it didn't back when he was Cy-Young). 4 to 5 to a young guy like Buehrle who has been consistent his whole career is fairly reasonable to me.

DrewSox56
08-01-2007, 01:45 PM
The only way we can get anything for Contreras is at gun point...

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f322/fugnutz/marlonbrando_godfather.jpg

"I'll make'em an offer they can't refuse."

rdivaldi
08-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Jamie Navarro:tongue:

Yep, that name immediately popped into my head.

4 years/$20 million for that bum. I was soooo happy when Milwaukee was dumb enough to trade for him in his final year.

25- 43 with an ERA of almost 6.25, ugh!

Chicken Dinner
08-01-2007, 02:10 PM
I'm talking Barry Zito long. I knew they would go at least four years for Mark, but anything beyond that is a big risk. Even four is quite long, but the Sox and Buehrle have a good relationship, so an exception was made.

But in Contreras's case, 4+3 is OK? :rolleyes:

AZChiSoxFan
08-01-2007, 02:14 PM
Contreras has, with the exception of half of 2005 and half of 2006, been a replacement-level (at best) major league pitcher. His velocity is down, his movement has flattened, he's at least 35 years old. He is decidedly on the downside of his career. Take out that one period of quality pitching, and his career ERA is 5.21.

Sure, Floyd hasn't impressed, but he's only pitched 123 innings at the major league level. He needs an extended tryout, and this is the season to do that.

35????? More like 55.

Domeshot17
08-01-2007, 02:43 PM
if he isnt hurt dont DL him. Put his ass in bullpen and see if he can set up. Maybe being able to let it all go for one inning at a time can turn his career around and someone will claim him off waivers. But we won't be in a bad spot. Even if he does come alive as a reliever again, he is an expensive option, but if you fill 2 of the holes with guys from the minors making the minimuim (Danks and Broadway, Floyd, Gio Eg etc.) it offsets it a little. Jose has to learn to channel his anger.

ArkanSox
08-01-2007, 03:17 PM
At $20M invested over the next two years, and with the Sox far out of contention this year, I think they need to let him pitch his spot in the rotation and hope that he can somehow rediscover his rhythm. The way he's been pitching, he'll clear waivers all right, but who's gonna want him? He's gonna have to get much better to be of any value to anyone, period.

Watching him last night, I really don't understand it. His fastball topped out at 93 mph and his split was dropping off the table. His location and his lack of confidence seem to be the main problems. It looks like he tries to aim the ball whenever he gets behind in the count, or after Coop comes out to talk with him. With the movement he has on his forkball, he just shouldn't be this ineffective.

I want to see him dominate again, for even after this horrible stretch, if he should happen to have a couple of decent outings, the Sox may be able to dump him. Obviously, Jose is not the only one with confidence issues.

oeo
08-01-2007, 03:55 PM
But in Contreras's case, 4+3 is OK? :rolleyes:

How is this the same? :?:

alohafri
08-01-2007, 05:01 PM
Something has to happen. That much is certain. Be it a trip to the DL (although I don't think his problems are physical), a trip to the bullpen, or a trip down to the minors. Every start he makes, Ed Farmer says in the pregame notes, "Jose has to keep from dropping down to the side to throw his pitches." And every start, Jose drops down to the side to throw his pitches.

I say send him down for a couple of starts and make him throw overhand...every pitch. If he drops to the side, fine him. At the very least, the sidearming will be ruled out.

Puffy Palmeiro
08-01-2007, 05:25 PM
My mother is 1/2 Cuban so, naturally, I am a huge Contreras fan. I have staunchly kept him on my fantasy team and start him without trepidation every 5th day. Having said that, his post-All Star stats are starting to concern me:

0-4 20.2 IP 40 H 31 R 31 ER 9 BB 10 K 13.50 ERA 2.37 WHIP .426 BA 8 HR

Those are not good numbers. Should I drop him from my fantasy team or hang in there until Sox management decides his immediate future?

PP

lostfan
08-01-2007, 05:45 PM
How is this Contreras' potential? He started off the season as the team's ace.
In name only. That Opening Day turd he left out on the mound is still fresh in my mind.

russ99
08-01-2007, 05:51 PM
Something has to happen. That much is certain. Be it a trip to the DL (although I don't think his problems are physical), a trip to the bullpen, or a trip down to the minors. Every start he makes, Ed Farmer says in the pregame notes, "Jose has to keep from dropping down to the side to throw his pitches." And every start, Jose drops down to the side to throw his pitches.

I say send him down for a couple of starts and make him throw overhand...every pitch. If he drops to the side, fine him. At the very least, the sidearming will be ruled out.

Either Jose is injured or he's favoring the shoulder by avoiding overhand throws. In both cases, he should be DL'ed

munchman33
08-01-2007, 06:44 PM
My mother is 1/2 Cuban so, naturally, I am a huge Contreras fan. I have staunchly kept him on my fantasy team and start him without trepidation every 5th day. Having said that, his post-All Star stats are starting to concern me:

0-4 20.2 IP 40 H 31 R 31 ER 9 BB 10 K 13.50 ERA 2.37 WHIP .426 BA 8 HR

Those are not good numbers. Should I drop him from my fantasy team or hang in there until Sox management decides his immediate future?

PP

Jose Contreras has no business on any fantasy league roster, let alone getting starts.

soxtalker
08-01-2007, 07:03 PM
People aren't talking about it a lot, but there has been some mention that he's going through a divorce. Weren't some of the problems he had in NY attributed to being separated from his family? If he's having trouble because of personal problems, time may (or may not) solve the problem.

The Sox are pretty well stuck with Contreras for now because of the $20M remaining on his contract. Look at it from another perspective. If it is personal issues, they should try to keep his mechanics in good form and try to build his confidence back up. He could revert to that pitcher we saw in the past. Next year, it is a bigger issue, but, right now, we've got the rest of a wasted season.

soltrain21
08-01-2007, 07:19 PM
People aren't talking about it a lot, but there has been some mention that he's going through a divorce. Weren't some of the problems he had in NY attributed to being separated from his family? If he's having trouble because of personal problems, time may (or may not) solve the problem.

The Sox are pretty well stuck with Contreras for now because of the $20M remaining on his contract. Look at it from another perspective. If it is personal issues, they should try to keep his mechanics in good form and try to build his confidence back up. He could revert to that pitcher we saw in the past. Next year, it is a bigger issue, but, right now, we've got the rest of a wasted season.


Either way; let him take a break mentally AND physically. He is laboring out there. Put him on the DL and let him sort out whatever he needs to sort out.

Maybe I'm wrong; but wasn't there a story towards the beginning of the season about the ways in which his family came over here and how he could have been facing some huge fines for it from the goverment?

Sockinchisox
08-01-2007, 08:03 PM
Either way; let him take a break mentally AND physically. He is laboring out there. Put him on the DL and let him sort out whatever he needs to sort out.

Maybe I'm wrong; but wasn't there a story towards the beginning of the season about the ways in which his family came over here and how he could have been facing some huge fines for it from the goverment?

He's being skipped on Sunday, Floyd is pitching in is place.

HotelWhiteSox
08-01-2007, 08:28 PM
He's being skipped on Sunday, Floyd is pitching in is place.

Still a loss

Frater Perdurabo
08-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Still a loss

Can't we just forfeit and save the bullpen?

KyWhiSoxFan
08-01-2007, 09:00 PM
JC is terrible and should be out of the rotation. No doubt.

However ... the only way to get him taken on waiver -- even if it's only a 100-1 chance someone is stupid enough to do it -- is to let him pitch. If they think he's injured, being on the DL, you got no chance to get rid of him.

If he's not gone by the middle of August, then you put him out to pasture the rest of the year.

thomas35forever
08-01-2007, 09:37 PM
They need a legitimate reason to put him on the DL. Emotional problems are not one of them. Maybe him skipping a start or two will give him time to clear his head.

A. Cavatica
08-01-2007, 09:37 PM
Top ten pitchers I would prefer to see in this rotation spot:

1. Egbert
2. Gonzalez
3. Haeger
4. Masset
5. Broadway
6. Wing
7. Phillips
8. De Los Santos
9. Floyd
10. Contreras

oeo
08-01-2007, 10:47 PM
Still a loss

The way I see it...if we can score some runs, at least Floyd gives us a chance. Jose does not give us a chance, at all.

And here's Gavin's second chance to earn a rotation spot, we'll see how he does this time out. I swear if the mental midget could get his curve over consistently (and use it even when he gets behind in the count), he can be a very good pitcher. His problem is getting behind and then everyone and their mother knows that the fastball is coming.

balke
08-02-2007, 12:16 AM
Gavin isn't earning a permanent spot, so get that out of your head. He might take it by default for a while while Contreras figures things out, but Floyd hasn't shown anything so far except how to throw a great fastball to hit.

I really hope a pitcher emerges from the minors next season. I don't wanna see anyone rushed, but the Sox are gonna have to dismantle the rotation a bit after next season for sure. Gio or Broadway or someone needs to step up.

RockJock07
08-02-2007, 01:04 AM
I watched the 2005 ALCS game 5 the other day and you can see a night and day's difference in Jose. He looked so confident with his pitches and arm slots that he dominated that game and pitched well in Game 1 of the WS.

I see him nibbling alot around the zone this year and when he goes after guys they tee-off on him. The Yankees are hot but this has been going on with Jose for months now and finnally we see a move.

We keep saying it about guys that have come up this season, but this is their chance to make the team next year. Gavin needs to show some balls on the mound, and as Hawk said the other night, gavin's a one-pitch pitcher.

harwar
08-02-2007, 06:56 AM
Take it from one who knows ..It really sucks to get old before your time.
Jose is not only up there in age but(like mentioned earlier)he is dealing with some off-field issues.
In fact,i wonder how much of Juan Uribe being really bad this year is due to the mess he has in his native country.
Both are very emotioal guys.

Flight #24
08-02-2007, 09:28 AM
Top ten pitchers I would prefer to see in this rotation spot:

1. Egbert
2. Gonzalez
3. Haeger
4. Masset
5. Broadway
6. Wing
7. Phillips
8. De Los Santos
8.1 oeo
8.2 jabrch
8.3 PHG
8.4 Daver
8.5 Chopper
8.6 A Cavatica
9. Floyd
10. Contreras
Fixed it for ya

Seriously, best case scenario is JC misses a start, passes through waivers, gets his **** together, and puts in a couple of dominant outings into mid-August, making him a potential impact acquisition for a playoff team, and probably the only one out there.

Cuck_The_Fubs
08-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Maybe if we acquire El Duque, Jose would pitch better.

Paulwny
08-02-2007, 10:43 AM
Maybe if we acquire El Duque, Jose would pitch better.


I was also thinking of this.
Two jobs and two pay checks for El Duque
1) pitcher
2) Jose's shrink