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View Full Version : Santana Not Happy...


TwinKess
08-01-2007, 07:40 AM
Well, you guys may get a chance to bid for him after all...

http://www.startribune.com/179/story/1336318.html

Goose
08-01-2007, 09:06 AM
Wow...those are some remarkable words from the face of your organization! I am not sure that the brass can look the other way when they are called out like that.

I would love for Santana to be in the Sox rotation, but realistically, he is going one of two places, and they are both on the East Coast (you know who I am talking about).

This is not only because they are the only ones that will offer a 7 year $160MM contract (which is what I think JS will get after 2008), but from the words he spoke in that article, those teams are the ones that suit his philosophy...always buyers (or seemingly) and trying to win it every year.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

voodoochile
08-01-2007, 09:38 AM
"Anyone who thinks the Twinkees can catch Cleveland is crazy!"

Santana will be the most sought after FA this off-season. I expect him to sign for over $20M/season and it might get into PayRod money.

I doubt the Sox will be in the running. Yankees, Angels and BoSox will be the top suitors. The Cardinals, Mets and Braves will also be in the running, but I just don't see the Sox being able to sink that much money into a single pitcher. Plus, no way JR will authorize a 5+ year deal which is what it's going to take.

Frontman
08-01-2007, 09:55 AM
Wow...those are some remarkable words from the face of your organization! I am not sure that the brass can look the other way when they are called out like that.

I would love for Santana to be in the Sox rotation, but realistically, he is going one of two places, and they are both on the East Coast (you know who I am talking about).



5457

"Satana will join us or die, My master."


5458
"Everything is proceeding as I have forseen."

palehozenychicty
08-01-2007, 10:12 AM
I can't say that I blame his frustrations at all. The Twins in the post-Puckett era have been like that, never really doing enough to compete for a title. You can only develop players for so long, and they know how to do that. With their collection of talent now in Cuddyer/Morneau/Mauer/Santana, their window is short.

chaerulez
08-01-2007, 10:26 AM
"Anyone who thinks the Twinkees can catch Cleveland is crazy!"

Santana will be the most sought after FA this off-season. I expect him to sign for over $20M/season and it might get into PayRod money.

I doubt the Sox will be in the running. Yankees, Angels and BoSox will be the top suitors. The Cardinals, Mets and Braves will also be in the running, but I just don't see the Sox being able to sink that much money into a single pitcher. Plus, no way JR will authorize a 5+ year deal which is what it's going to take.

Depending who the new Cubs owner is, they could take a run at him as well.

jackbrohamer
08-01-2007, 10:28 AM
Terry Ryan did enough to get that team to the postseason 4 of the last 5 seasons before this year; if Santana wants to blame someone for the team not getting any farther, he should start with his own teammates.

jabrch
08-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Santana will be the most sought after FA this off-season. I expect him to sign for over $20M/season and it might get into PayRod money.

He isn't a FA this offseason. He is under contract for 2008 at 13.25mm and has full NTC based on incentives in his deal (top 3 in Cy Young voting last year)

If the Twins are willing to trade him, they will get a lot for him - 3 of an organization's top prospects. They could probably get Hughes, Chamberlain and Tabata if they want from the Yanks. I'd hope KW would offer them their choice of any three of our prospects. I have no doubt the Dodgers, Mets, LAA, etc. would all be willing to pay that price.

Minny has to move him either this offseason, or at the trade deadline next year unless they will be able to find a way to extend him. Given his current feelings towards the club, that is looking like it will be hard.

voodoochile
08-01-2007, 10:50 AM
He isn't a FA this offseason. He is under contract for 2008 at 13.25mm and has full NTC based on incentives in his deal (top 3 in Cy Young voting last year)

If the Twins are willing to trade him, they will get a lot for him - 3 of an organization's top prospects. They could probably get Hughes, Chamberlain and Tabata if they want from the Yanks. I'd hope KW would offer them their choice of any three of our prospects. I have no doubt the Dodgers, Mets, LAA, etc. would all be willing to pay that price.

Minny has to move him either this offseason, or at the trade deadline next year unless they will be able to find a way to extend him. Given his current feelings towards the club, that is looking like it will be hard.

Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I agree, trade whatever it takes to land him if he is available. It would make the Sox almost sure front runners for the AL pennant in 2008.

The Immigrant
08-01-2007, 10:51 AM
With the taxpayers funding his new stadium, Carl Pohlad will have a hell of a time explaining why he let Hunter, Santana and, eventually, Morneau get away. None of this is on Terry Ryan, who has found many unpolished turds that turned into everyday MLB players.

The Immigrant
08-01-2007, 10:53 AM
Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I agree, trade whatever it takes to land him if he is available. It would make the Sox almost sure front runners for the AL pennant in 2008.

We could offer them Mickey Mantle and Sandy Koufax in their prime, and playing for free, and the Twins still would not trade Santana to the White Sox.

voodoochile
08-01-2007, 10:55 AM
We could offer them Mickey Mantle and Sandy Koufax in their prime, and playing for free, and the Twins still would not trade Santana to the White Sox.

I'll take that deal for Buehrle and Garland and I'll even throw in Dye...

oeo
08-01-2007, 11:16 AM
"Anyone who thinks the Twinkees can catch Cleveland is crazy!"

That's almost what it seems like. He says the Tigers and Indians are 'awful good.' They're not that good. They both have major, glaring weaknesses (they're starting to show right now), which neither fixed at the deadline. I still think the Twins could have won the division. :dunno:

TDog
08-01-2007, 11:33 AM
We could offer them Mickey Mantle and Sandy Koufax in their prime, and playing for free, and the Twins still would not trade Santana to the White Sox.

You're probably right. The Twins reserve a specific dislike for the White Sox. And I don't see Santana signing with the White Sox. The Sox aren't so bad at holding on to free agents. Thomas was not wanted by the team for contractual reasons that don't make sense to a lot of people. The Ordonez situation was unique to Ordonez. A few years earlier,though, Ordonez signed an extension instead of testing free agency. But I don't hear anyone counting the days until Buehrle signs with the Cardinals. Konerko re-signed with the Sox for a smaller package than he was offered elsewhere.

Signing free agents who haven't found themselves happy to play for the White Sox is a different story. It might be interesting to see how Aaron Rowand reacts to the White Sox inevitably pursuing him this off-season.

balke
08-01-2007, 11:45 AM
I don't care what anyone has to say about Magglio. He was going to get 3 years tops from the Sox, and at 15+ million each. So just think about that for a minute, that's 2 seasons of nothing special and this his great season that has everyone drooling would be wasted on a sad run of loserdom.

Kenny made the right choice. Dye was twice the RFer Magglio was last season, and this season if Magglio was on the team he'd be traded at the deadline for 1-2 good prospects who would fizzle and wilt in the Sox minor league system.

As for Santana, the Sox can't trade for him (Twins won't trade within the division) and if he does go to free agency, the Sox won't pay for him. They've invested too much in trying to grow pitchers from within the organizations to spend 14 mil on Buehrle and 20+ mil on Santana.

Hokiesox
08-01-2007, 12:24 PM
But here's what I'm interested in:

Earlier this year, we heard Torii might want to play for the Sox, or so it was suggested. Santana isn't happy up there. I understand there's no way the Twins would trade a box of baseballs to the Sox for grass seed (another need up there in MN), but would the Sox be able to sign former Twins as FAs? That's what I wonder about.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2007, 12:52 PM
Nathan can also go free agency after 2008.

Lip

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2007, 12:55 PM
But here's what I'm interested in:

Earlier this year, we heard Torii might want to play for the Sox, or so it was suggested. Santana isn't happy up there. I understand there's no way the Twins would trade a box of baseballs to the Sox for grass seed (another need up there in MN), but would the Sox be able to sign former Twins as FAs? That's what I wonder about.
Well, we all know Santana won't play for the Cubs or Red Sox...He's clearly stated that he absolutely detests their ballparks for safety reasons in that they're not good for his fielding style. I think Comiskey is one of his best-hitting ballparks, plus that wall isn't too high for him to steal home runs. I hate him with a passion right now; but, I really think the Sox have a shot at him (or another top CF). If we DO land Hunter, then I could see him being used as a lure to bring Santana here.

INSox56
08-01-2007, 01:16 PM
Depending who the new Cubs owner is, they could take a run at him as well.I can't see that. With as many prospects as Ryan can easily demand, there's no way the scrubs could come close to matching what he'd want.

oeo
08-01-2007, 01:17 PM
Well, we all know Santana won't play for the Cubs or Red Sox...He's clearly stated that he absolutely detests their ballparks for safety reasons in that they're not good for his fielding style. I think Comiskey is one of his best-hitting ballparks, plus that wall isn't too high for him to steal home runs. I hate him with a passion right now; but, I really think the Sox have a shot at him (or another top CF). If we DO land Hunter, then I could see him being used as a lure to bring Santana here.

I think we have about a 0.00000000000000001% chance of signing Santana. Too much money, and too long of a contract. I know he's the best in the business right now, but I think the Contreras situation right now is just going to magnify the reasons the Sox do not want to give long term contracts to pitchers.

And anything can happen. He's been pretty durable, but all it takes is a line drive off his elbow, and that's years and years of wasted money.

oeo
08-01-2007, 01:18 PM
I can't see that. With as many prospects as Ryan can easily demand, there's no way the scrubs could come close to matching what he'd want.

The man is going to be a free agent after next season. If you're willing to throw out the cash, anyone can have him.

Foulke You
08-01-2007, 01:37 PM
Well, we all know Santana won't play for the Cubs or Red Sox...
I'm assuming you meant Hunter here? If so, I also have read that Hunter doesn't like Fenway and Wrigley very much. He is also good friends with Jacque Jones who probably didn't exactly rave about Cubs fans or Wrigley Field either.

JermaineDye05
08-01-2007, 01:41 PM
But here's what I'm interested in:

Earlier this year, we heard Torii might want to play for the Sox, or so it was suggested. Santana isn't happy up there. I understand there's no way the Twins would trade a box of baseballs to the Sox for grass seed (another need up there in MN), but would the Sox be able to sign former Twins as FAs? That's what I wonder about.
:AJ:
'did you forget about me?'

DumpJerry
08-01-2007, 01:44 PM
Well, we all know Santana won't play for the Cubs or Red Sox...He's clearly stated that he absolutely detests their ballparks for safety reasons in that they're not good for his fielding style.
Santana's fielding style is what got him all those Cy Young Awards. Very understandable. It is quite dangerous for a pitcher fielding pop-ups around the mound at The Urinal and Fenway. Or maybe it is the violent crime rate outside the parks that distracts him from fielding...............

Hokiesox
08-01-2007, 01:45 PM
:AJ:
'did you forget about me?'

I should have said current twins players who don't go through another team. Sorry AJ

DumpJerry
08-01-2007, 01:47 PM
It might be interesting to see how Aaron Rowand reacts to the White Sox inevitably pursuing him this off-season.
:KW
We're doing what in the offseason?

tm1119
08-01-2007, 02:06 PM
Depending who the new Cubs owner is, they could take a run at him as well.

Especially if it ends up being Cuban. That guy will do anything to win. I could definetely see him going broke to try to bring Santana in to win a world series.

PKalltheway
08-01-2007, 04:41 PM
Santana couldn't be any more correct. The Twins are a bunch of cheap-asses. They are always just one or two players away from winning it all, but instead, they'll try to play it cheap, or shed off some payroll. I'm all for developing young talent, but seriously, once you reach a point of sustained success without reaching the peak (i.e. winning the AL Central 4 out of 5 years without even REACHING the World Series), you're gonna have to eventually break the bank to prove to your players, and to the fans, that you want to win at ANY cost. The Twins do not do this, and that's why you won't see them in the World Series any time soon.

Dan the Man
08-01-2007, 04:53 PM
Especially if it ends up being Cuban. That guy will do anything to win. I could definetely see him going broke to try to bring Santana in to win a world series.
That would pretty much guarantee zero Sox coverage anywhere but CSN.

TDog
08-01-2007, 05:03 PM
:KW
We're doing what in the offseason?

The White Sox need a center fielder. White Sox management will be talking to free agent center fielders in the off season, inquiring as to their interest. The White Sox have always liked Aaron Rowand and only traded him to get a big power DH when they were overestimating Brian Anderson's future contributions to the team.

I don't think there will be any question the Sox will talk to Aaron Rowand in the off-season if he files for free agency. What Rowand says when they do will play a large part in how vigorously the Sox will pursue him.

TDog
08-01-2007, 05:06 PM
Especially if it ends up being Cuban. That guy will do anything to win. I could definetely see him going broke to try to bring Santana in to win a world series.

Santana isn't Cuban. He is Venezuelan.

thedudeabides
08-01-2007, 05:09 PM
Santana couldn't be any more correct. The Twins are a bunch of cheap-asses. They are always just one or two players away from winning it all, but instead, they'll try to play it cheap, or shed off some payroll. I'm all for developing young talent, but seriously, once you reach a point of sustained success without reaching the peak (i.e. winning the AL Central 4 out of 5 years without even REACHING the World Series), you're gonna have to eventually break the bank to prove to your players, and to the fans, that you want to win at ANY cost. The Twins do not do this, and that's why you won't see them in the World Series any time soon.

Although, I agree with most of what your saying, they have limited resources. It's part of being in a small market. They can't break the bank every time they're good. I'm sure Twins fans would have liked to see it happen at least once, and it looks like Santana feels the same way.

DumpJerry
08-01-2007, 05:13 PM
Santana isn't Cuban. He is Venezuelan.
The poster is referring to Marc Cuban.

TDog
08-01-2007, 05:18 PM
The poster is referring to Marc Cuban.

Then maybe Marc Cuban would be interested in a Cuban pitcher from the White Sox.

DumpJerry
08-01-2007, 05:24 PM
Then maybe Marc Cuban would be interested in a Cuban pitcher from the White Sox.
That might be the only way he could get Jerry R. to agree to let him become an owner.

tm1119
08-01-2007, 07:55 PM
Santana isn't Cuban. He is Venezuelan.

I really hope you werent being serious.

chisoxfanatic
08-01-2007, 11:20 PM
I'm assuming you meant Hunter here? If so, I also have read that Hunter doesn't like Fenway and Wrigley very much. He is also good friends with Jacque Jones who probably didn't exactly rave about Cubs fans or Wrigley Field either.
Yes, I did mean Hunter there.

TDog
08-02-2007, 06:21 PM
I really hope you werent being serious.

I was to the extent that I was frustrated with the quality of the post that inspired my response.

comet2k
08-02-2007, 07:00 PM
Although, I agree with most of what your saying, they have limited resources. It's part of being in a small market. They can't break the bank every time they're good. I'm sure Twins fans would have liked to see it happen at least once, and it looks like Santana feels the same way.

This is a big factor. The Twins don't draw that well and may not have a good deal on the stadium. I believe the St. Louis area has more people and certainly a much stronger following that gives them much better crowds. They've done pretty well on a limited budget, but it's just that -- limited.

soxfanreggie
08-02-2007, 10:09 PM
I could see him letting the Twins know they have no chance to re-sign him and them trading him for a boat-load of picks if he can work out a L-T deal. Yankees haven't traded away the farm in a while anyway.

Lip Man 1
08-03-2007, 12:01 PM
Interesting story on this:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/495450,CST-SPT-joe03.article

Lip

SoxSpeed22
08-03-2007, 12:15 PM
Interesting story on this:

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/495450,CST-SPT-joe03.article

LipWhoopie! Another nickname for that damn team.

jdm2662
08-03-2007, 01:01 PM
The Twins only sit six games out. Cleveland and Detroit aren't exactly tearing up the league right now. The Twins had a very good chance of catching either team. I certainly can see why Santana isn't happy...

areilly
08-03-2007, 01:13 PM
All I have to say is this:

1) Santana will be the highest-paid pitcher of all time, or at least deserves to be.
2) As such, we're down to only a handful of teams that have either the funds, track record, or both to lay claim - Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Angels, Giants, Mariners, Dodgers.
3) Santana has mentioned he likes batting and wouldn't mind going to an NL club. Now, if the guy is mowing down the AL the way he has, just imagine the insane years he could have against the weaker league.

My guess is the Twins have a fire sale starting this winter. Santana plays a season or less with a contender that traded the farm for him, then signs with either the Mets or the Cubs.

Nellie_Fox
08-04-2007, 12:33 AM
Santana plays a season or less with a contender that traded the farm for him, then signs with either the Mets or the Cubs.He's a left-handed pitcher. Do you notice that big-name pitchers don't flock to pitch in Wrigley Field? The Mets new park is going to also have rather cozy dimensions. Of the teams that can afford him, Yankee Stadium has enormous dimensions in left/left-center. Where would you want to play if you were a left-handed pitcher?

DrewSox56
08-04-2007, 12:42 AM
He's a left-handed pitcher. Do you notice that big-name pitchers don't flock to pitch in Wrigley Field? The Mets new park is going to also have rather cozy dimensions. Of the teams that can afford him, Yankee Stadium has enormous dimensions in left/left-center. Where would you want to play if you were a left-handed pitcher?

Excellent.

Now - Where is RF tough...anywhere?

Nellie_Fox
08-04-2007, 01:23 AM
Excellent.

Now - Where is RF tough...anywhere?Well, Fenway isn't too bad down the lines, but gets very deep very quickly as you move toward right-center and center.
http://www.redsoxconnection.com/dimensions.gif

PKalltheway
08-04-2007, 05:26 PM
He's a left-handed pitcher. Do you notice that big-name pitchers don't flock to pitch in Wrigley Field? The Mets new park is going to also have rather cozy dimensions. Of the teams that can afford him, Yankee Stadium has enormous dimensions in left/left-center. Where would you want to play if you were a left-handed pitcher?
Florida.

In all seriousness though, Dodger Stadium wouldn't be bad at all...

comet2k
08-05-2007, 07:22 AM
He's a left-handed pitcher. Do you notice that big-name pitchers don't flock to pitch in Wrigley Field? The Mets new park is going to also have rather cozy dimensions. Of the teams that can afford him, Yankee Stadium has enormous dimensions in left/left-center. Where would you want to play if you were a left-handed pitcher?


Where they paid me the most money and the team had a good shot at making the playoffs.

Ziggy S
08-05-2007, 01:35 PM
Although, I agree with most of what your saying, they have limited resources. It's part of being in a small market. They can't break the bank every time they're good. I'm sure Twins fans would have liked to see it happen at least once, and it looks like Santana feels the same way.
I don't think the owner of that team (Pohlad, though I'd rather not refer to him by name) would exactly be forced to beg for scraps on the street if he kept his great players. I mean, the way the Twinkees operate is good for us, especially if Johan is out of the division or better yet on the White Sox starting in 2009. Apparently, Carl could afford to loan Butthead (Bud Selig) a bunch of cash, which coincidentally was followed by the threats to contract Minnesota's team if that struggling, poor owner just couldn't get his skyboxes and suites. He almost reminds you of Dollar Bill, don't you think? As long as that guy owns the Twins they are not very likely to even sniff a World Series.

TwinKess
08-06-2007, 08:46 AM
As long as that guy owns the Twins they are not very likely to even sniff a World Series.

In no way am I defending the guy, but both of our World Series wins were with Pohlad as an owner.