PDA

View Full Version : 7/31/07 *Official Jamie Navarro Makes Cameo Appearance Postgame Thread*


chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 09:16 PM
Somehow, I'd rather Navarro return than keep on throwing Contreras out there every fifth game. He certainly is making a case for looking just like our former sucky pitcher.

This is very "FRUSTRATING!"

Definitely one of the most depressing games I've seen in a long time.

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:17 PM
Definitely one of the most depressing games I've seen in a long time.

Why?

CanBuehrleWait
07-31-2007, 09:17 PM
Holy crap Jose is on his own level of suck right now :o:

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 09:18 PM
A glorious 3-1 win!






Wait, the second digit counts?

soltrain21
07-31-2007, 09:18 PM
Well, at least Jermaine upped his trade value with that great catch.

Grzegorz
07-31-2007, 09:19 PM
Well??? Someone had to start one.

Can Contreras please be skipped over in the rotation? He needs to get better from whatever ails him.

Tonight I am embarrassed for the Chicago White Sox...

The Dude
07-31-2007, 09:19 PM
Too bad JD and JC were both on the field today.:angry:

Tragg
07-31-2007, 09:19 PM
A couple of small thoughts:

Fields hit well at the bottom of the order - move him back to 7th or 8th; bat Richar 2nd - let him see some good pitches so we can see what he's got.

Also, what about Contreras in the pen. Contreras is always 1/2 headcase anyway....maybe that will settle him down.

Gonzalez is playing infield now....good.

You gotta leave Floyd in the pen. You can't send him down..for what purpose. Leave him there, give him a fair shot (2 of his 4 appearances for the Sox have been in 2 of the biggest abominations of baseball that we've seen all year...the Twins game and this one - everyone sucked). It doesn't look good but it's really that or give up.

JB98
07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
At least we held the Yankees below 20 runs.

Gavin Floyd took his next step toward oblivion this evening too.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
Why?
I hope that's a rhetorical question!

Grzegorz
07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
Can Contreras please be skipped over in the rotation? He needs to get better from whatever ails him.

Tonight I am embarrassed for the Chicago White Sox...

MCHSoxFan
07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
Well??? Someone had to start one.

Can Contreras please be skipped over in the rotation? He needs to get better from whatever ails him.

Tonight I am embarrassed for the Chicago White Sox...

Stopped watching after it was 4-3. I knew the Sox Could NOT score ANYMORE runs. Nor could Jose stop the Yankees. :angry::angry::angry:

HawkDJ
07-31-2007, 09:21 PM
This guy started game 1 of the 2005 World Series. Just for perspective.

pierzynski07
07-31-2007, 09:21 PM
Why?
1. ****ty umpiring.
2. Our two starters (Haeger and Floyd) of the future were awful.
3. Team meltdown (see Konerko).
4. Tied a Yankees record for Home Runs allowed in a game.
5. On the day where we got next to nothing on the trading deadline (albet nothing was out there).

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:22 PM
I hope that's a rhetorical question!

The Sox are now 14 games out of first place, 10 under .500.

The Sox are going nowhere. 16-3, 1-0, it doesn't matter. I can think of plenty of games more depressing the past few years than this one.

I'm not saying I don't care if they lose, I would like them to win as many games as possible. But, losing a game 16-3 when the season is in the ****ter is not depressing at all.

pierzynski07
07-31-2007, 09:22 PM
This guy started game 1 of the 2005 World Series. Just for perspective.
Kenny will never give out a three year pitching contract again.

MCHSoxFan
07-31-2007, 09:26 PM
Stopped watching after is what 4-3. I just had oral surgery and this did NOT cheer me up or at least make me smile!!!! :angry::angry: I knew the Sox would NOT score ANYMORE runs. Nor would Jose be able to pitch well after Uribe hit that home run. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 09:30 PM
But, losing a game 16-3 when the season is in the ****ter is not depressing at all.

The state of the season doesn't matter much in my book when determining if a game is depressing or not. Hell, I've walked out of the United Center or turned off a ****load of Blackhawks games feeling entirely depressed even though they haven't even come close to sniffing the playoffs in five years (and over half the teams make the playoffs in the NHL).

It was a terribly depressing game to watch.

SpartanSoxFan
07-31-2007, 09:31 PM
I don't care what anyone says, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with Contreras right now. Either own up to it and place him on the DL or send him to Charlotte. He can't throw strikes to save his life right now.

Also, I think its pretty clear why Floyd didn't make the Opening Day roster. He has zero poise whatsoever on the mound, and, as Lip says, a perpetual "Deer in headlights" look in his eyes. Too bad we can't go with a 4-man rotation...

Vernam
07-31-2007, 09:31 PM
My main regret is turning the game off and missing Konerko's ejection. I hope he got his money's worth. Ozzie sure did -- I lost count after he said "****ing piece of ****" six times. :cool:

Jose is to the 2005 Sox as Lamar Hoyt was to the 1983 Sox. From the heights to the depths in record time, and seemingly with no injury to blame it on. :dunno:

Vernam

SpartanSoxFan
07-31-2007, 09:34 PM
Jose is to the 2005 Sox as Lamar Hoyt was to the 1983 Sox. From the heights to the depths in record time, and seemingly with no injury to blame it on. :dunno:

Vernam

IIRC, didn't Hoyt become addicted to pain killers by then? I would guess that would contribute to his speedy decline.

sox102
07-31-2007, 09:38 PM
what's the point in watching this team any more this year?

JB98
07-31-2007, 09:39 PM
what's the point in watching this team any more this year?

To see how Owens, Richar and Fields play.

Vernam
07-31-2007, 09:44 PM
IIRC, didn't Hoyt become addicted to pain killers by then? I would guess that would contribute to his speedy decline.More or less true, though I think it was something even worse than pain killers. Last I heard, Lamar has turned his life around, and good for him -- he had a rough childhood, supposedly.

Anyway, I didn't want to go there because there's been no suggestion of any such thing with Jose. His awfulness seems to be 100-percent free of chemical enhancements.

Vernam

SpartanSoxFan
07-31-2007, 09:48 PM
More or less true, though I think it was something even worse than pain killers. Last I heard, Lamar has turned his life around, and good for him -- he had a rough childhood, supposedly.

Anyway, I didn't want to go there because there's been no suggestion of any such thing with Jose. His awfulness seems to be 100-percent free of chemical enhancements.

Vernam

I'm positive its his age or injury or a combination or both. What amazes me is how "El Duque" is pitching amazing right now for New York and supposedly is even older than Contreras.

alohafri
07-31-2007, 09:51 PM
This guy started game 1 of the 2005 World Series. Just for perspective.

OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:57 PM
OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:

Thank you, sir! :thumbsup:

Sox fans really need to stop referring to 2005 every season.

Gavin
07-31-2007, 09:57 PM
OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:

Chill the **** out, ese. Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, nor Danny Wright carried the White Sox to the postseason while the rest of the pitching staff was struggling.

I care about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005, and I think a lot of other people do too.

Besides, it's not like the Sox are in contention right now. At least we can enjoy a good season for what it was. Yeesh.

Vernam
07-31-2007, 09:58 PM
OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:Classy.

It's possible to appreciate what Jose did for us in '05 and '06 but still admit he's hit the wall and should no longer be in the rotation. At least, for me it is. People change . . .

Vernam

soltrain21
07-31-2007, 09:59 PM
I thought the whole post of "he started game 1..." was talking about how far he has fallen in such a short time.

Either way, cool heads people.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:00 PM
OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:

I hear you on that. I'd stomach this much easier if someone would actually step up and both admit and give reasons for why Contreras is sucking, as well as telling us why he's still being thrown out there every fifth game (what's their master plan in the grand scheme of things, in other words).

Gavin
07-31-2007, 10:02 PM
I thought the whole post of "he started game 1..." was talking about how far he has fallen in such a short time.

Either way, cool heads people.

And could rebound just as quickly. I too am frustrated that such a good pitcher has fallen so hard. Management needs to step up, however, and put someone else in his rotation spot.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:05 PM
And could rebound just as quickly. I too am frustrated that such a good pitcher has fallen so hard. Management needs to step up, however, and put someone else in his rotation spot.
I highly doubt someone who was around even before Julio Franco will ever show signs of rebounding. He's THROUGH!

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:08 PM
I highly doubt someone who was around even before Julio Franco will ever show signs of rebounding. He's THROUGH!

Well, the Sox do not need him to rebound to being a dominant pitcher. If he could hold down the #4 spot in the rotation, they'd be fine with Mark, Gar, and Javy ahead of him. But as it stands, he should not be pitching. Let him rest and get his **** together.

Patrick134
07-31-2007, 10:10 PM
To see how Owens, Richar and Fields play.


Amen. If there is a silver lining to being this far back, it's that it gives you a chance to look at the young guys. Plenty of teams on the fringe of being in it won't be able to do that.

JB98
07-31-2007, 10:10 PM
Ozzie let Cuzzi have it in his postgame comments, so I think we should all prepare to see the Sox get jacked by the umps for the rest of this series.

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:12 PM
Ozzie let Cuzzi have it in his postgame comments, so I think we should all prepare to see the Sox get jacked by the umps for the rest of this series.

It's the games like these when MLB should suspend the umpire and do so publicly. At some point, MLB needs to show its fans (and players) that bad umpiring has its consequences.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:12 PM
Ozzie let Cuzzi have it in his postgame comments, so I think we should all prepare to see the Sox get jacked by the umps for the rest of this series.
What did he say? I turned off the TV right after Hawk said "and this ballgame is over."

NoNeckEra
07-31-2007, 10:12 PM
The White Sox cap off a disappointing day of insignificant trade deadline activity with a resounding 16-3 loss to the Yankees who hit 8 home runs off a plethora of White Sox hurlers (causing numerous reports of Sox fans "hurling" back in Chicago).

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:13 PM
It's the games like these when MLB should suspend the umpire and do so publicly. At some point, MLB needs to show its fans (and players) that bad umpiring has its consequences.
I agree wholeheartly with that! I mean, the players and coaches are called out publicly for when they **** up. Umpires and referees in any sport should be held to the exact same standard in that regard.

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:15 PM
I agree wholeheartly with that! I mean, the players and coaches are called out publicly for when they **** up. Umpires and referees in any sport should be held to the exact same standard in that regard.

I understand bad calls b/c all umpires will have bad games. But at least recognize you are sucking. It looks even worse for the guy b/c Ozzie got run in the first and he went on to have an awfully one-sided game.

soltrain21
07-31-2007, 10:16 PM
It's the games like these when MLB should suspend the umpire and do so publicly. At some point, MLB needs to show its fans (and players) that bad umpiring has its consequences.


Well, I think its pretty obvious that there were Mafia ties to this game.

JB98
07-31-2007, 10:18 PM
What did he say? I turned off the TV right after Hawk said "and this ballgame is over."

Ozzie called Cuzzi out for escalating the confrontation, and he added that in 23 big-league seasons, he has never seen an umpire more disrespectful of players and managers than Cuzzi.

Ozzie added that it's time for someone to step up and say something about Cuzzi, because otherwise he'll just keep screwing people.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:21 PM
Ozzie called Cuzzi out for escalating the confrontation, and he added that in 23 big-league seasons, he has never seen an umpire more disrespectful of players and managers than Cuzzi.

Ozzie added that it's time for someone to step up and say something about Cuzzi, because otherwise he'll just keep screwing people.

Even more than Froemming or Wendelstadt?

It's a damn shame that, if anyone speaks out about ANY umpire, they get fines and/or suspensions. Umpires and referees get off scott free EVERY time! Like, there's no incentive to actualy do their best job or something!

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:22 PM
Ozzie called Cuzzi out for escalating the confrontation, and he added that in 23 big-league seasons, he has never seen an umpire more disrespectful of players and managers than Cuzzi.

Ozzie added that it's time for someone to step up and say something about Cuzzi, because otherwise he'll just keep screwing people.

Looks like Ozzie is aiming for a full week to ten days off. It was blatantly obvious that this ******* umpire escalated the entire confrontation. I was hoping Ozzie would sit on homeplate and refuse to move.

JB98
07-31-2007, 10:25 PM
Even more than Froemming or Wendelstadt?

It's a damn shame that, if anyone speaks out about ANY umpire, they get fines and/or suspensions. Umpires and referees get off scott free EVERY time! Like, there's no incentive to actualy do their best job or something!

They are beyond reproach. I'm pretty sure Ozzie will be fined, if not suspended.

whitesoxfan1986
07-31-2007, 10:26 PM
Something is seriously ****ed up with Contreras. I don't see how he could go from arguably the best pitcher in the game to a Jaime ****ing Navarro level in one calendar year without being injured. I don't want to hear the "well, maybe if Jose wasn't 50 years old..." line anymore. If Jose is 50 years old, then he was dominating the AL at 49, so that throws that theory out the window. I don't know whether it is a back issue or an arm issue, but it has to be one or the other. I also don't understand why Jose denies being injured, when it is quite obvious he is. Ozzie and Kenny are fools to believe him. They need to shut him down, and replace him with someone other than that blowhard Floyd. He's made me look like a fool for thinking that a change of scenery could help him become a major league pitcher. I'd go with Masset or Haeger for the remainder of the season. DFA Floyd, Erstad, and Pods already.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:26 PM
Looks like Ozzie is aiming for a full week to ten days off. It was blatantly obvious that this ******* umpire escalated the entire confrontation. I was hoping Ozzie would sit on homeplate and refuse to move.

Out of everything that happened in that game, the thing I was shocked at at most was that AJ wasn't tossed! I'm shocked that he actually reserved himself instead of getting in the middle of things. I kinda wish AJ had made SOME sort of a point during the game. He'd do it better than anyone else.

alohafri
07-31-2007, 10:31 PM
Out of everything that happened in that game, the thing I was shocked at at most was that AJ wasn't tossed! I'm shocked that he actually reserved himself instead of getting in the middle of things. I kinda wish AJ had made SOME sort of a point during the game. He'd do it better than anyone else.

Oh, I think he came close! You see that bat toss after he popped out swinging at a similar pitch that Paulie was called for strike three on?

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:31 PM
Out of everything that happened in that game, the thing I was shocked at at most was that AJ wasn't tossed! I'm shocked that he actually reserved himself instead of getting in the middle of things. I kinda wish AJ had made SOME sort of a point during the game. He'd do it better than anyone else.

AJ had a few words for him. But yea, I am shocked he didn't get run.

BarbG
07-31-2007, 10:31 PM
Even more than Froemming or Wendelstadt?
Without question. If they got reprimanded this guy deserves to be.

That cap-tipping piece of histrionics was the most moronic, immature, blatantly biased action I've ever seen from an umpire.

soxtalker
07-31-2007, 10:32 PM
It's the games like these when MLB should suspend the umpire and do so publicly. At some point, MLB needs to show its fans (and players) that bad umpiring has its consequences.

What purpose would it serve for MLB to do this publicly? The umpires need to know that bad umpiring has consequences, but that can be (and probably is to some extent) done privately.

JB98
07-31-2007, 10:34 PM
What purpose would it serve for MLB to do this publicly? The umpires need to know that bad umpiring has consequences, but that can be (and probably is to some extent) done privately.

They sanction the players publicly for poor behavior. Why not the umpires? The fans need to know that actions like what we saw from Cuzzi are not tolerated by MLB.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:35 PM
Oh, I think he came close! You see that bat toss after he popped out swinging at a similar pitch that Paulie was called for strike three on?
I sure did see that. I am shocked that Cuzzi didn't toss him for THAT!

PAULIE KONERKO getting tossed out of a game? I can't EVER recall a game where THAT happened! Can anyone counter this?

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:36 PM
What purpose would it serve for MLB to do this publicly? The umpires need to know that bad umpiring has consequences, but that can be (and probably is to some extent) done privately.

It's a tough line to cross, but in the end, this is a game for the fans. From the fans' perspective, umpires are not accountable at all for the job that they do. Whether it's publicly announcing the rare suspensions of umpires or publicly grading, I think something needs to be done. No one is saying these guys will be perfect, but when you escalate arguments, show up players and managers, and cannot recognize a ball from a strike for 9 innings, you deserve a public censure. It wouldn't happen often, but it would hopefully go a long way toward improving things.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 10:38 PM
They sanction the players publicly for poor behavior. Why not the umpires? The fans need to know that actions like what we saw from Cuzzi are not tolerated by MLB.
Exactly! Umpires are no more "special" than managers and players. From a fan's standpoint, we don't ever know when one of these screw-ups gets called out. It's all done "under the table" if it is at all! They need to be held to the exact same standard!

HotelWhiteSox
07-31-2007, 10:41 PM
Expected with Jose starting, and then you add Gavin Floyd, there's icing on the cake. I agree that no one would want Jose, we aren't cheap to where we won't sign guys, and that JR knows he better turn things around if he wants butts in those seats next year, but with the market and players out there, can we really get anyone other than a bunch of mediocre talent? All our big acquisitions are usually through trade, but we don't really want to part with our best chips (though I don't mind saying bye to Thome or Vazquez for a good return). We came into this year with questionable holes, and that was when we were expected to win, I think we better pray for lightning in a bottle or this might take a while.

This guy started game 1 of the 2005 World Series. Just for perspective.

Here's my perspective, this guy was probably alive when the Treaty of Versailles was signed


Is there anyone in this league, in 2007, that he can beat? He's gonna lose 20 games!

Brian26
07-31-2007, 10:43 PM
Amen. If there is a silver lining to being this far back, it's that it gives you a chance to look at the young guys. Plenty of teams on the fringe of being in it won't be able to do that.

Right. We need to see how good these kids can play and decide whether or not we need to go after some free agents this winter like Iguchi and Rowand :D:

Frontman
07-31-2007, 10:43 PM
Well, I finally recovered long enough to type.

For cryin' out loud, with all the longballs given up, we couldn't give one to A-Rod so that he overshadowed Bonds, even for one day?!?!?!?

Man, that was a new level of a "butt whuppin" as Hawk put it.

Shake it off, we go back at them tomorrow.

Brian26
07-31-2007, 10:47 PM
They sanction the players publicly for poor behavior. Why not the umpires? The fans need to know that actions like what we saw from Cuzzi are not tolerated by MLB.

Maybe they can suspend the umpires, but then the umpires can appeal the suspension and wait until their next trip to New York to have Selig hear their case, which would probably be sometime around July of 2009.

Frontman
07-31-2007, 10:49 PM
It's a tough line to cross, but in the end, this is a game for the fans. From the fans' perspective, umpires are not accountable at all for the job that they do. Whether it's publicly announcing the rare suspensions of umpires or publicly grading, I think something needs to be done. No one is saying these guys will be perfect, but when you escalate arguments, show up players and managers, and cannot recognize a ball from a strike for 9 innings, you deserve a public censure. It wouldn't happen often, but it would hopefully go a long way toward improving things.

Especially if you're tossing a manager or player for foul language, the umpire better keep his mouth clean too. There were a few words out of that guys mouth that had he been a player or manager? He would of been walkin' to the showers.

I'm not saying they can't get just as fired up, but don't toss someone for an F-bomb, then turn around and use it yourself.

oeo
07-31-2007, 10:52 PM
This game got out of hand with the 7 runs in the 3rd and 4th innings. None should have scored because Matsui was struck out both times. Not to mention Jeter's swing in the first.

Cuzzi was a ****ing prick tonight. He gave Mussina a massive strike zone, while ours was tiny. Hopefully tomorrow, a fair game is called.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 11:01 PM
Is there anyone in this league, in 2007, that he can beat? He's gonna lose 20 games!
Jose couldn't even beat the 2003 Detroit Tigers at this point!
Especially if you're tossing a manager or player for foul language, the umpire better keep his mouth clean too. There were a few words out of that guys mouth that had he been a player or manager? He would of been walkin' to the showers.

I'm not saying they can't get just as fired up, but don't toss someone for an F-bomb, then turn around and use it yourself.
I agree with you big time! It's like a teacher writing up a student for a certain behavior and doing the same thing right for the students to see. As a teacher, I model the behavior I expect of my students. I call Cuzzi a big hypocrite tonight!

soxfanreggie
07-31-2007, 11:12 PM
I was watching the games with 3 Cubs fans. They ever claimed that Cuzzi made some brutal calls, starting with the non-punchout of Jeter.

HawkDJ
07-31-2007, 11:25 PM
OH MY GOD! SHUT UP WITH GAME 1 OF THE 2005 WORLD SERIES ALREADY! This guy has reached a level of suckage that I haven't seen since Jamie Navarro, Todd Ritchie, and Danny Wright! Who the hell cares about Game 1 of the World Series of 2005 in 2007? Yeah, okay...fine, you won it. Now don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.:angry::angry::angry:

Yikes. Got a bit upset, did we? I was just saying that to show how far the man has fallen in a very short time span. My bad. 2005 never happened. Let's see here...ok. This guy was dominant for the beginning of 2006 and now he is possibly the worst pitcher in baseball. Amazing.

Navarro's Talent
07-31-2007, 11:34 PM
Somehow, I'd rather Navarro return than keep on throwing Contreras out there every fifth game.

I knew this day would come! :D:

Martinigirl
07-31-2007, 11:48 PM
What did Paulie get ejected for? Arguing balls & strikes?

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 11:49 PM
What did Paulie get ejected for? Arguing balls & strikes?

Yup. He was called out on a high pitch and got run after a few choice words.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 11:49 PM
What did Paulie get ejected for? Arguing balls & strikes?
Yes. The same things that were being called balls for Matsui and Jeter were called strikes for him in that particular at bat.

oeo
07-31-2007, 11:50 PM
Looks like Ozzie is aiming for a full week to ten days off. It was blatantly obvious that this ******* umpire escalated the entire confrontation. I was hoping Ozzie would sit on homeplate and refuse to move.

He should have done the 'ole Phil Wellman routine.

esbrechtel
08-01-2007, 12:57 AM
Yup. He was called out on a high pitch and got run after a few choice words.
And Paulie got tossed like a year later...he was already in the dugout when the ump tossed him....Oh and good thing Erstad was healthy so he could play first all game...

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2007, 01:18 AM
I was listening to the Yankees broadcast on XM, and even THEY thought the umpire was way out of line on the Paulie ejection. They said it wasn't a strike, and they said he followed Paulie away from home plate, looking for a reason to run him. He said "He had his say, he's walking away, why do you have to follow him? That's just wrong."

ThomesHomie
08-01-2007, 02:54 AM
Well??? Someone had to start one.

Can Contreras please be skipped over in the rotation? He needs to get better from whatever ails him.

Tonight I am embarrassed for the Chicago White Sox...

Sadly enough, I don't think our GM, or Manager see our players playing badly... they just take it as a grain of salt. Serious, when will something be done to players that can't get it done.

Our bull pen went on long enough with this mess, stuff needs to be done.

Grzegorz
08-01-2007, 04:48 AM
Sadly enough, I don't think our GM, or Manager see our players playing badly... they just take it as a grain of salt. Serious, when will something be done to players that can't get it done.

Our bull pen went on long enough with this mess, stuff needs to be done.

I just want Contreras to sit a while to get himself together. I do not have any confidence whatsoever in Gavin Floyd, the bull pen is still undependable, so I am not sure where the fifth starter comes from.

Possibly Nick Masset???

I just want to see some different faces in 2008 starting with a new shortstop and continuing on with bull pen help. A new outfielder would be nice but with Crede being the wild card it looks as if the position pieces, particularly third base and left field, will take a while to fall in place.

BTW, I do not agree with you that KW doesn't see this team as playing badly; I believe he knows he has put a bad product out on the field.

Remember trading for the sake of trading is worthless. There has to be a return in every deal. I have a feeling this off season will be a frenetic one.

alohafri
08-01-2007, 07:06 AM
Yikes. Got a bit upset, did we? I was just saying that to show how far the man has fallen in a very short time span. My bad. 2005 never happened. Let's see here...ok. This guy was dominant for the beginning of 2006 and now he is possibly the worst pitcher in baseball. Amazing.

I didn't read that into your post. Sorry about that. But it isn't the first time I have read someone post "Oh, he started game one of the 2005 World Series."

Yeah, I am happy we won it all in 2005, but we can't live in the past here. We can't try to "get that old gang of ours back together for one last run." This isn't Hollywood. We need to be moving forward or we will be like the Bears. "Hey, it is 2025. Let's see what Rowand, AJ, and the boys are doing and have a reunion." Hell no! I want to win another one of these things. To do that, dead weight must be gotten rid of...starting with AARP cardholder, Jose Contreras! Right now, he is as close to a guaranteed loss as I have seen since Danny Wright

spiffie
08-01-2007, 07:55 AM
Well, I think its pretty obvious that there were Mafia ties to this game.
This must have been one of those games ondafarm told us about, where the umps have decided beforehand who is going to win.

stl_sox_fan
08-01-2007, 07:58 AM
Wow, I just watched the 8 HR montage clip. "See Ya!!!". I think I now understand how/if non-Sox fans can hate Hawk's HR call.

palehozenychicty
08-01-2007, 08:36 AM
Wow, I just watched the 8 HR montage clip. "See Ya!!!". I think I now understand how/if non-Sox fans can hate Hawk's HR call.


Michael Kay "Mr. See-Ya" is as bad as it gets, on many many levels.

Frontman
08-01-2007, 08:41 AM
Yikes. Got a bit upset, did we? I was just saying that to show how far the man has fallen in a very short time span. My bad. 2005 never happened. Let's see here...ok. This guy was dominant for the beginning of 2006 and now he is possibly the worst pitcher in baseball. Amazing.

No, he wasn't the most dominant. He was the luckiest. Some of those "non-loss" games he was on the hook for until the hitting pulled him out of the fire. Just because Harrelson and DJ keep saying he was doesn't change the fact I, along with a lot of us, watched those games and saw that "dominant" run of Jose's for what it was.

He's also two years older now than he was in 2005. He's probably on the last legs of his career. It drives me nuts to see him peform like this, as he was great in 2005. But careers fade, and I think Jose's is on the downslope.

palehozenychicty
08-01-2007, 08:47 AM
Couldn't make this game, although I thought about riding the bus over and snagging a cheap ticket. My feelings on this game is that Contreras is done and Floyd is not a major-league pitcher. We knew these things going into the game, and they proved true to form. No surprises. We play tonight.

HawkDJ
08-01-2007, 09:27 AM
No, he wasn't the most dominant. He was the luckiest. Some of those "non-loss" games he was on the hook for until the hitting pulled him out of the fire.

Well, I never did say MOST dominant. But whichever way you slice it, he had a 2.53 ERA and a 0.98 WHIP after 10 starts in 2006. Not too shabby. After that yes, things went a bit downhill despite, as you said, not losing many. Either way, as someone pointed out, if he's 50 now, he was great at 48. Age shouldn't really matter too much.

Frontman
08-01-2007, 09:44 AM
Well, I never did say MOST dominant. But whichever way you slice it, he had a 2.53 ERA and a 0.98 WHIP after 10 starts in 2006. Not too shabby. After that yes, things went a bit downhill despite, as you said, not losing many. Either way, as someone pointed out, if he's 50 now, he was great at 48. Age shouldn't really matter too much.

Actually, the MOST part is my annoyance at DJ and Hawk. They make it sound like he was ripped off by not winning the Cy Young or something.

HawkDJ
08-01-2007, 09:47 AM
Actually, the MOST part is my annoyance at DJ and Hawk. They make it sound like he was ripped off by not winning the Cy Young or something.


Ah. Well, that's unfortunate for me then...considering my name. :tongue:

Frontman
08-01-2007, 09:56 AM
Ah. Well, that's unfortunate for me then...considering my name. :tongue:

lol. I WAS trying to work around that. Noticed how I called him Harrelson in an earlier post?

No harm, no foul. :D:

HawkDJ
08-01-2007, 10:14 AM
lol. I WAS trying to work around that. Noticed how I called him Harrelson in an earlier post?

No harm, no foul. :D:

Yes, and "DJ and Hawk". Brilliant.

oeo
08-01-2007, 11:36 AM
No, he wasn't the most dominant. He was the luckiest. Some of those "non-loss" games he was on the hook for until the hitting pulled him out of the fire. Just because Harrelson and DJ keep saying he was doesn't change the fact I, along with a lot of us, watched those games and saw that "dominant" run of Jose's for what it was.

He's also two years older now than he was in 2005. He's probably on the last legs of his career. It drives me nuts to see him peform like this, as he was great in 2005. But careers fade, and I think Jose's is on the downslope.

This is false. It wasn't until after he went on the DL in May that he became inconsistent. He was dominant to that point (carrying it from August of 2005). He's fallen a long, long way from that point he was placed on the DL.

jenn2080
08-01-2007, 11:44 AM
This is false. It wasn't until after he went on the DL in May that he became inconsistent. He was dominant to that point (carrying it from August of 2005). He's fallen a long, long way from that point he was placed on the DL.

Exactly. He was great in 06. A few no decisions, but still pitching great. Once they put him on the DL it was over. He was getting rocked almost every game.

Hitmen77
08-01-2007, 03:40 PM
No, he wasn't the most dominant. He was the luckiest. Some of those "non-loss" games he was on the hook for until the hitting pulled him out of the fire. Just because Harrelson and DJ keep saying he was doesn't change the fact I, along with a lot of us, watched those games and saw that "dominant" run of Jose's for what it was.

He's also two years older now than he was in 2005. He's probably on the last legs of his career. It drives me nuts to see him peform like this, as he was great in 2005. But careers fade, and I think Jose's is on the downslope.

What I don't understand is the Sox willingness to commit to Contreras for 4 more seasons during the '05-'06 offseason when he was already at least 35 (hasn't his real age been questioned?) and only had only about 2-3 months of success in the majors.

Yes, I know he signed only a 3 yr deal, but that was on top of the 1 yr left on his old contract - so he essentially had a 4 yr deal at that point. Of course, 6 weeks into this 4 yrs worth of contracts, Jose goes on the DL and his dominance was gone with more than 3 1/2 season still committed to him.

....and yet, for players who might be close to 10 years younger than Jose and who have a long track record of durability and/or success (Buehrle and Garland), it seems like it's either 3 yrs or the highway. Only at the last minute did Buehrle get the unique exception of getting a 4 yr deal.

I understand the reluctance for long term contracts for pitchers, but what I don't understand is the "one-size-fits-all" approach the Sox seem to take with this policy. Yes - 3 yrs only, we don't care if you're 27 or 35 going on 40+. If you're the latter, we'll still give you a 1+3 year deal regardless of age or track record because it's still technically only a 3 yr contract.

I know alot of this is hindsight, but locking up a 35 (and probably somewhat older) pitcher who only had 1/2 season above mediocrity for 4 more seasons is risky even without the benefit of hindsight.

palehozenychicty
08-01-2007, 04:22 PM
What I don't understand is the Sox willingness to commit to Contreras for 4 more seasons during the '05-'06 offseason when he was already at least 35 (hasn't his real age been questioned?) and only had only about 2-3 months of success in the majors.

Yes, I know he signed only a 3 yr deal, but that was on top of the 1 yr left on his old contract - so he essentially had a 4 yr deal at that point. Of course, 6 weeks into this 4 yrs worth of contracts, Jose goes on the DL and his dominance was gone with more than 3 1/2 season still committed to him.

....and yet, for players who might be close to 10 years younger than Jose and who have a long track record of durability and/or success (Buehrle and Garland), it seems like it's either 3 yrs or the highway. Only at the last minute did Buehrle get the unique exception of getting a 4 yr deal.

I understand the reluctance for long term contracts for pitchers, but what I don't understand is the "one-size-fits-all" approach the Sox seem to take with this policy. Yes - 3 yrs only, we don't care if you're 27 or 35 going on 40+. If you're the latter, we'll still give you a 1+3 year deal regardless of age or track record because it's still technically only a 3 yr contract.

I know alot of this is hindsight, but locking up a 35 (and probably somewhat older) pitcher who only had 1/2 season above mediocrity for 4 more seasons is risky even without the benefit of hindsight.

Amen to that.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2007, 04:25 PM
Hitmen:

You bring up some very valid, solid points. No question. If you are going to lock up pitching, you do it for guys who have shown durability and good performance like Mark and Jon to lead your rotation, not the other way around.

Lip

jdm2662
08-01-2007, 04:36 PM
As I said in previous threads, I seriously doubt anyone on this board predicted Jose would become this bad. I seriously doubt many of you questioned the signing, in fact, probably most of you were happy Jose was signed under market value at the time. If this isn't the case, then prove me wrong. It's easy to say it was wrong to sign him to an extension since he's awful now. However, I seriously doubt ANYONE here predicted this was going to happen.

BadBobbyJenks
08-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Well I understood why he was pitching leading up to the deadline, hoping hed pull a couple of rabbits out of his hat and maybe get something for him, but now see ya later. I appreciate everything he did in the 2nd half of 05 and into the playoffs but this guy is done. Throw him in the pen, start gavin or haeger and see how they do. Its ovah, whats the point of watching Jose embarass him self every fifth day.

GoSox2K3
08-03-2007, 12:08 PM
As I said in previous threads, I seriously doubt anyone on this board predicted Jose would become this bad. I seriously doubt many of you questioned the signing, in fact, probably most of you were happy Jose was signed under market value at the time. If this isn't the case, then prove me wrong. It's easy to say it was wrong to sign him to an extension since he's awful now. However, I seriously doubt ANYONE here predicted this was going to happen.

....except that nobody "here" is getting paid a penny to make decisions for the Chicago White Sox franchise.

KW is getting paid to be responsible for such decisions and it's legitimate to question why the team seems to be taking a one-size-fits-all approach to signing pitchers like Jose, Buehrle, and Garland. Their age and track record don't seem to be as important as their willingess to stick to a 3-yr/$3x million extension. Both Garland and Jose would have been free agents at the end of '06 if I'm not mistaken. The Sox chose to extend Jose through 2009 and Garland through 2008. Stick with the guy who is 10 yrs older for one extra year doesn't make sense to me. We'd be in much better shape right now if we locked up JG through '09 and JC through '08 instead. Why wasn't this done? It almost seems like it's all about the fact that Jose had an existing contract for '06 while Jon didn't (arbitration eligible) rather than which pitcher made more sense to lock up for more years.

oeo
08-03-2007, 12:16 PM
....except that nobody "here" is getting paid a penny to make decisions for the Chicago White Sox franchise.

KW is getting paid to be responsible for such decisions and it's legitimate to question why the team seems to be taking a one-size-fits-all approach to signing pitchers like Jose, Buehrle, and Garland. Their age and track record don't seem to be as important as their willingess to stick to a 3-yr/$3x million extension. Both Garland and Jose would have been free agents at the end of '06 if I'm not mistaken. The Sox chose to extend Jose through 2009 and Garland through 2008. Stick with the guy who is 10 yrs older for one extra year doesn't make sense to me. We'd be in much better shape right now if we locked up JG through '09 and JC through '08 instead. Why wasn't this done? It almost seems like it's all about the fact that Jose had an existing contract for '06 while Jon didn't (arbitration eligible) rather than which pitcher made more sense to lock up for more years.

You're not getting paid anything, but this whole paragraph you just wrote is based on hindsight. Go take a look back at the thread when Contreras signed the extension. People couldn't believe we got a Cy Young candidate for so cheap. It's easy to say that such and such should have happened after the fact.

BTW, I like how you compare him to Garland who isn't having a very good year himself.

jdm2662
08-03-2007, 12:52 PM
You're not getting paid anything, but this whole paragraph you just wrote is based on hindsight. Go take a look back at the thread when Contreras signed the extension. People couldn't believe we got a Cy Young candidate for so cheap. It's easy to say that such and such should have happened after the fact.

BTW, I like how you compare him to Garland who isn't having a very good year himself.

That's exactly my point. People are saying this only because Jose is really bad now. We are not alone here. Mediots, other fans, etc do the same thing. It's just easy to second guess NOW when at the time it was almost a bargin. None of these so called concerns of his age, falling off the face of the earth wasn't even discussed. It's just kind of funny to me. It's easy to say it's the wrong decision now, but no one thought so at the time. I think some people like to make them feel like they are always right and surperior. Like a lot of people, I don't like the state of the Sox right now. However, I'm certainly not going to go out and say signing Jose was a mistake when it was a bargin at the time.

As for Garland, someone else pointed out since becoming a full time starter, he has had only season where his ERA was below 4.50. His ERA currently sits at 4.60. Certainly not terrible numbers, but pretty much around league average for the AL. Worthy of a huge extension? Well, not really. The one pitcher with a good track record was Mark, and he got more than three years. Pretty much since Garland opened his big mouth about Mark's contract situation, he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire.