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Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:05 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 03:07 PM
Talk about overreacting...

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:08 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents

There's still the possibility of trading a guy like Contreras if he turns around. Not to mention, an entire offseason.

Nothing Kenny could do, it looked like most of the interest from other teams was in relievers. Gagne and Dotel seemed to be the best two available guys out there, besides Teixeira.

AzureJazzMan
07-31-2007, 03:09 PM
Well now...Let's just wait a few hours...MLB still has lots of deals it has yet to announce due to paperwork. It could very well be that KW did do more, but we just don't know it yet. And...he did also get us Richar, that helps the future...right? :?:

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:09 PM
I think we're in for a very turbulent offseason. Lots of trades and FA signings.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:10 PM
Talk about overreacting...


Whats over recating that the team that I love might have another long season next year since we didn't do anything during the trade period..

Who is going to be our
SS
RF
CF
LF
2B If Richar doesn't work out
thats not even counting all the holes in the bullpen

thepaulbowski
07-31-2007, 03:10 PM
How can you be disappointed about something that hasn't even happened yet? :?:

soltrain21
07-31-2007, 03:10 PM
I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents


Well thanks, Cleo. We traded a 2B to clear a spot for hopefully our 2B of the future. We also traded a utility player.

Could he have gotten better? Possibly...but probably not much.

102605
07-31-2007, 03:10 PM
I guess you don't know how baseball works? Mackowiak + Iguchi = 6+ million in payroll.

Mackowiak could be easily replaced with one of our AAA OF and Richar will be pretty equal to Iguchi in every aspect.

Except this solution only will costs the White Sox around 1 million.

soxinem1
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
Did you expect A-Rod, Santana, and some other hot prospects for an unproductive below-average 2B and a backup OF whose best position is LF/DH?

Let's get real here....

russ99
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
Well now...Let's just wait a few hours...MLB still has lots of deals it has yet to announce due to paperwork. It could very well be that KW did do more, but we just don't know it yet. And...he did also get us Richar, that helps the future...right? :?:

And who's to say even if either Dye or Contreras aren't dealt that the Sox can still make a deal through waivers.

Kenny will be really busy this offseason. I don't see the Sox carrying all 4 starters at $10M+

lostfan
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
Yeah if the Sox don't contend next year I know it'll be because KW failed to get Jake Peavy or Chris Young for Macowiak and Cole Hamels for Iguchi. Damn you, Kenny Williams. Trading away the core of our team for peanuts...

The Immigrant
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
The deadline for dealing Contreras is not today, as he would certainly pass through waivers.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 03:11 PM
Whats over recating that the team that I love might have another long season next year since we didn't do anything during the trade period..

Who is going to be our
SS
RF
CF
LF
thats not even counting all the holes in the bullpen

Good grief, the Sox have 8 months to get the 2008 team put together. You think KW is going to sit on his hands all that time?

You're about 7 months early with this thread...

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:13 PM
There's still the possibility of trading a guy like Contreras if he turns around.


Now that this circus is over, he can concentrate on pitching instead of possible travel plans.

Marqhead
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Lets wait till after the offseason to judge how rough 2008 will be.

Luke
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents

As baseball fans we're just going to gave to get used to the fact that economics have changed what happens at the trade deadline. Teams aren't willing to trade prospects like they used to for rent-a-players. Blockbuster trades are going to be more common in the offseason. I'm sure if a reasonable deal was out KW would have made it.

As for free agents, who knows? It's not quite time to panic just yet.

TheCommander
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Wow,get off the ****ing ledge for gosh sakes people! :rolleyes:

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Whats over recating that the team that I love might have another long season next year since we didn't do anything during the trade period..


1) You don't know we didn't do anything yet.

2) The trade period isn't over today - lots of guys would clear waivers

3) We have a long season before any potential long season would start.

4) We will be able to compete for FA and for trades in the off season

5) You are overreacting - the market for anything he'd trade was not enough to get what he wanted. He's smart for not settling on dumping Dye for less than he believes he will get in draft pick compensation. He's smart for not trading Contreras and eating a contract if he feels he has other options.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Good grief, the Sox have 8 months to get the 2008 team put together. You think Kw is going to sit on his hands all that time?

You're about 7 months early with this thread...

I do see KW filling a few holes in the off season but not enough to get us back into the world series next year..

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:14 PM
Lets wait till after the offseason to judge how rough 2008 will be.

Nah, let's start complaining now.

TDog
07-31-2007, 03:16 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents

Because you could have done better? Most of the people who post around here believe they could do better. Some realists around here have been pointing out in the trade rumor threads that the Sox won't get as much as trade advocates believe they would.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:16 PM
1) You don't know we didn't do anything yet.

2) The trade period isn't over today - lots of guys would clear waivers

3) We have a long season before any potential long season would start.

4) We will be able to compete for FA and for trades in the off season

5) You are overreacting - the market for anything he'd trade was not enough to get what he wanted. He's smart for not settling on dumping Dye for less than he believes he will get in draft pick compensation. He's smart for not trading Contreras and eating a contract if he feels he has other options.


I said if the only thing KW did was to trade Iguchi and Mack since that is all reported right now if it happen that he made a few more moves today than I will give him credit if we got back decent prospects

balke
07-31-2007, 03:16 PM
There's so many teams that didn't do anything, and won't do anything this offseason. I'm pretty okay with how things went. I'm hoping Dye comes back, and the Sox are able to land a reliever or two this offseason. Other than that, this team is looking pretty alright.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 03:16 PM
I do see KW filling a few holes in the off season but not enough to get us back into the world series next year..

And what makes you believe that? Because a bunch of trades didn't happen today? Not picking up the options of Uribe, Erstad and Pods alone frees up $13 million for next season. You think JR is going to pocket that money?

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:17 PM
I think K.W gets the benefit of the offseason and and the 2008 season.If he fails then I think he should be out.I'm glad we won in 2005,but he can only ride that train so long.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:17 PM
Because you could have done better? Most of the people who post around here believe they could do better. Some realists around here have been pointing out in the trade rumor threads that the Sox won't get as much as trade advocates believe they would.


I see that the Rangers did a hell of a job this offseason picking up 8 prospects for 3 players

PalehosePlanet
07-31-2007, 03:19 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents


Gimme a break! You seem to be forgetting something very important: KW is hell-bent and absoultely obsessed with winning. We will rebound in '08, it was just an ugly case of Murphy's Law this year.

Marqhead
07-31-2007, 03:19 PM
I see that the Rangers did a hell of a job this offseason picking up 8 prospects for 3 players

The Rangers are also always in constant rebuilding mode, not the case for the Sox.

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:19 PM
I see that the Rangers did a hell of a job this offseason picking up 8 prospects for 3 players

Are you kidding? I missed your threads clamouring that we trade away our Buehrle so we can stock up on prospects. That's the equivalent - they traded Teixera, their best player...

Marqhead
07-31-2007, 03:19 PM
Gimme a break! You seem to be forgetting something very important: KW is hell-bent and absoultely obsessed with winning. We will rebound in '08, it was just an ugly case of Murphy's Law this year.

Agreed, all this talk of firing Kenny and Ozzie makes me sick. They brought a WS 2 seasons ago!

Chicken Dinner
07-31-2007, 03:22 PM
The deadline for dealing Contreras is not today, as he would certainly pass through waivers.

He'll easily pass through waivers.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:23 PM
Are you kidding? I missed your threads clamouring that we trade away our Buehrle so we can stock up on prospects. That's the equivalent - they traded Teixera, their best player...

than you should do some research because I said the only players I would keep on this current team is Buehrle, Danks, Garland, Richar and Fields

SABRSox
07-31-2007, 03:24 PM
I guess you don't know how baseball works? Mackowiak + Iguchi = 6+ million in payroll.

Mackowiak could be easily replaced with one of our AAA OF and Richar will be pretty equal to Iguchi in every aspect.

Except this solution only will costs the White Sox around 1 million.

More like $600,000 tops.

voodoochile
07-31-2007, 03:25 PM
than you should do some research because I said the only players I would keep on this current team is Buehrle, Danks, Garland, Richar and Fields

You want to replace 20 players?

With what, prospects?

You're freaking insane...

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:26 PM
Agreed, all this talk of firing Kenny and Ozzie makes me sick. They brought a WS 2 seasons ago!
So what.And your content? Why wouldn't you expect more from your team?K.W has had 1 winner albeit a W.S going on 8 years .Not even a Wild Card.I don't care if it's the first W.S in 200 years.In any sport the goal of your team should always go for a World Series.And anything less then that is failure.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 03:26 PM
The Sox have plenty of time to trade Contreras this season; he'll pass through waivers.

And if he improves to the point that a team claims him to prevent another competitor from trading for him, then KW can either negotiate a trade with the claiming team, or simply say "here you go, now you're on the hook for his full salary." That opens up $10M or so for the offseason.

The same is true for any other player on the Sox: Uribe, Cintron, etc. all could be dealt through waiver trades, or during the offseason.

Plenty of things can happen between now and April 2008. Withhold judgment until comprehension is complete.

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:26 PM
than you should do some research because I said the only players I would keep on this current team is Buehrle, Danks, Garland, Richar and Fields

:?:

Thome, Konerko, Jenks and Thornton don't make your cut?

:thud:

TheCommander
07-31-2007, 03:26 PM
than you should do some research because I said the only players I would keep on this current team is Buehrle, Danks, Garland, Richar and Fields


:bong:

thedudeabides
07-31-2007, 03:27 PM
I see that the Rangers did a hell of a job this offseason picking up 8 prospects for 3 players


And that's worked out real well for the Rangers in the past. I think I'll keep KW over Jon Daniels.

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:28 PM
There's so many teams that didn't do anything, and won't do anything this offseason. I'm pretty okay with how things went. I'm hoping Dye comes back, and the Sox are able to land a reliever or two this offseason. Other than that, this team is looking pretty alright.

The only team that really improved themselves was the Braves. Look around the league and there are a lot of contenders that needed help right now and didn't get it. Mariners, Cubs, Angels, Dodgers (although they did get Proctor), D'backs,...the list goes on. We have plenty of time to fix this team up.

thedudeabides
07-31-2007, 03:29 PM
The only team that really improved themselves was the Braves. Look around the league and there are a lot of contenders that needed help right now and didn't get it. Mariners, Cubs, Angels, Dodgers (although they did get Proctor), D'backs,...the list goes on. We have plenty of time to fix this team up.

Gagne could be a big pickup for Boston.

Randar68
07-31-2007, 03:30 PM
Well thanks, Cleo. We traded a 2B to clear a spot for hopefully our 2B of the future. We also traded a utility player.

Could he have gotten better? Possibly...but probably not much.

Not to mention Dye walking would net 2 high draft picks, so unless he get's 2 1st/2nd round talents for Dye, why would you trade him in the first place. Now the Sox also have the next few months to try to sign him to an extension as well.

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:30 PM
the goal of your team should always go for a World Series.And anything less then that is failure.

That's assinine.

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:31 PM
Gagne could be a big pickup for Boston.

It could be, but it's not something that shoots them up the ranks; and they also gave up quite a lot to get him (Gabbard was in their rotation, was he not?). They already had a pretty solid bullpen. If Ortiz goes down, they're going to be wishing they gave us what we wanted.

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:32 PM
That's assinine.
Why because your happy with just a good enough team? Thats your preference.Me,I want a consistant contender.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:32 PM
You want to replace 20 players?

With what, prospects?

You're freaking insane...


Did I say with prospects but mostly younger players like Salty, Buch holz, Wainwright to name a few players

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:32 PM
than you should do some research because I said the only players I would keep on this current team is Buehrle, Danks, Garland, Richar and Fields

And you aren't a Major League GM? I'm stunned. God bless the ignore feature!!!!

ode to veeck
07-31-2007, 03:33 PM
So what.And your content? Why wouldn't you expect more from your team?K.W has had 1 winner albeit a W.S going on 8 years .Not even a Wild Card.I don't care if it's the first W.S in 200 years.In any sport the goal of your team should always go for a World Series.And anything less then that is failure.

Huh? Last time I looked the Sox hadn't had a losing season since Kenny got here and have competed for the Div Title in each of those years before 2007. As he became GM in 10'00, he's also going on 7 years, not 8.

Get a grip.

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Gagne could be a big pickup for Boston.
Looks like Boston is in great shape.Going to be an interesting waiver wire deadline to see who blocks whom.

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Did I say with prospects but mostly younger players like Salty, Buch holz, Wainwright to name a few players

Yeah, good luck with that. Teixeira is younger and cheaper than Konerko, who do we have that the Red Sox want for Buchholz, and Wainwright isn't going anywhere...the Cards have literally no SP. This isn't Playstation, you can't just get what you want.

Luke
07-31-2007, 03:34 PM
So what.And your content? Why wouldn't you expect more from your team?K.W has had 1 winner albeit a W.S going on 8 years .Not even a Wild Card.I don't care if it's the first W.S in 200 years.In any sport the goal of your team should always go for a World Series.And anything less then that is failure.

That's a pretty tough curve if only one GM per year is not a failure.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
Did I say with prospects but mostly younger players like Salty, Buch holz, Wainwright to name a few players

Good thing all those players are available.

:rolleyes:

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
:?:

Thome, Konerko, Jenks and Thornton don't make your cut?

:thud:


I would just like to add more speed players who has power on the team rather than PK or Thome..

I would have traded Jenks for about 3 great prospects that could have help us out next year than sign Joe Nathan this offseason

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:35 PM
Why because your happy with just a good enough team? Thats your preference.Me,I want a consistant contender.

This team has been a constant contender under Kenny. This was the first bad year he has had - and it was due partially to injuries.

There are many outcomes short of winning a WS that are just fine with me.

1) Making the WS
2) Making the ALCS
3) Making the post season
4) Having a good season and falling just short of making the playoffs, but having made every effort

None of those are failures to me.

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:36 PM
Looks like Boston is in great shape.Going to be an interesting waiver wire deadline to see who blocks whom.

Yeah, until they lose Ortiz for an extended amount of time, Beckett has his annual blister problems, and Schilling goes back on the DL.

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:36 PM
I would just like to add more speed players who has power on the team rather than PK or Thome..

That's fine, but who and where are these players? You can dream of acquiring young studs, but you aren't going to just call Theo Epstein and say, "Give me Taylor Bucholtz for a song".

voodoochile
07-31-2007, 03:36 PM
Did I say with prospects but mostly younger players like Salty, Buch holz, Wainwright to name a few players

Are these young talented players FAs this off season?

If not, were they available in trade now or will they be then?

Not following other teams much, I have to ask can some of them hit for the power we will lose when you trade/dump Konerko, Dye and Thome?

Is there a catcher in the group?

What about the rest of the starters and all 6-7 bullpen positions?

It's all well and good to say that you think the team needs to be dismantled, but without a plan in place to contend in the next few years, you are simply giving away the gains in popularity/attendance the Sox have managed to gain these past few years.

I for one would cringe to see a return to "the kids can play" and think KW is still on the right track to keep the Sox in contention for years to come.

SABRSox
07-31-2007, 03:37 PM
This team has been a constant contender under Kenny. This was the first bad year he has had - and it was due partially to injuries.

There are many outcomes short of winning a WS that are just fine with me.

1) Making the WS
2) Making the ALCS
3) Making the post season
4) Having a good season and falling just short of making the playoffs, but having made every effort

None of those are failures to me.

Number 4 is a failure.

TDog
07-31-2007, 03:39 PM
... And anything less then that is failure.

Jon Miller on the radio the other night said the Giants can claim the most Hall of Famers of any franchise. I didn't check to see if he was right about that because I know the Giants have had a bunch. And yet, they have been in San Francisco for a long time, and San Francisco has never won a World Series.

If anything short of the World Series is a failure. There wouldn't be Giants fans. There wouldn't be White Sox fans. There certainly wouldn't be Cubs fans.

oeo
07-31-2007, 03:39 PM
I would just like to add more speed players who has power on the team rather than PK or Thome..

I would have traded Jenks for about 3 great prospects that could have help us out next year than sign Joe Nathan this offseason

Yeah, let's get Jose Reyes, we'll put him at first. Then we'll get Juan Pierre, he can DH. We'll be fast...but it won't matter when we don't have any run producers.

We might have gotten two good prospects for Jenks, and that's it. Gagne got two pretty good ones, and then one that's 17 years old. Dotel got Kyle Davies. And you want to contend in 2008? How are we going to do it without a closer?

ArkanSox
07-31-2007, 03:40 PM
I actually think KW did well by holding onto (and probably eventually resigning) Dye, especially after hearing the trade options mentioned.

I hope and expect him to extend Garland's contract, and with free agent acquisitions, we should have a very competitive team next year.

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:40 PM
Yeah, until they lose Ortiz for an extended amount of time, Beckett has his annual blister problems, and Schilling goes back on the DL.
Why I said the Waiver Wire should be interesting.Just to see if the Yankees block any deals.You think the Tribe may try and block anything Boston or the Yankees do?

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:41 PM
In any sport the goal of your team should always go for a World Series.And anything less then that is failure.

If you ain't first, you're last! -- Reese Bobby

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 03:47 PM
Kenny did good holding up I would have been upset if he traded Dye for the bare minimum. If the Red Sox weren't going to give us Delcarmen (didnt think him and Mo Pena were worth Dye either) then they weren't going to get Dye. Now Kenny can re-sign Dye for perhaps less, or he could let Dye go and get the 2 draft picks, either way he did better then Willy Mo Pena and Craig Hansen.

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:47 PM
I have mixed feelings if they extend Dye.Is his loss of range in Right,due to injury or age? And will his bat comeback?

jabrch
07-31-2007, 03:48 PM
It is threads like this that remind me how much so many of our fans absolutely suck.

ArkanSox
07-31-2007, 03:48 PM
Yeah, good luck with that....This isn't Playstation, you can't just get what you want.

:smile:

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:48 PM
I have mixed feelings if they extend Dye.Is his loss of range in Right,due to injury or age? And will his bat comeback?

Check out his stats since the All Star Break, his bat is back. True his range in right is still not up to snuff, but he's still adequate out in the field.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 03:49 PM
It is threads like this that remind me how much so many of our fans absolutely suck.

:rolling:

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:51 PM
Check out his stats since the All Star Break, his bat is back. True his range in right is still not up to snuff, but he's still adequate out in the field.
I can live with a 1 year ext,with an option for a second.Not sure if you want him locked in for another 3 years like the reports are saying.Then again they are just reports.......

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 03:52 PM
I can live with a 1 year ext,with an option for a second.Not sure if you want him locked in for another 3 years like the reports are saying.Then again they are just reports.......

Well, I can see that. But he's not going to take anything less than 2 years. I was thinking a 2 year contract with an option for a third.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:54 PM
Check out his stats since the All Star Break, his bat is back. True his range in right is still not up to snuff, but he's still adequate out in the field.

Can you say that 3 years from now when Dye is to old to move around RF if we sign him to an extension..

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
I can live with a 1 year ext,with an option for a second.Not sure if you want him locked in for another 3 years like the reports are saying.Then again they are just reports.......

What about a one year deal with two option years? Perhaps where the second year is a mutual option: Dye can exercise the option at, say, $6 million. If he declines, then the Sox have an option to keep him at, say, $8 million.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
It is threads like this that remind me how much so many of our fans absolutely suck.

if you don't like the thread don't read it

BRDSR
07-31-2007, 03:55 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, just the first page so forgive me if I'm rehashing anything, but I honestly think this team could have more talent on the big league squad than it did 6 days ago. I think having Richar playing everyday instead of Iguchie could be a wash right now let alone in a season or two. He's got Soriano talent written all over him. Not saying he will put up those type of numbers, but I think he will be a similar player and a big addition.

Mackowiak is two steps down from anyone the Sox will call up to replace him in a utility outfielder roll. Heck, the Sox should call up a minor leaguer and put him in a starting roll and make Erstad the utility guy. He's been getting injured so much and the season is so far gone that getting a young guy some reps is probably the way to go.

I like it. And if a Dye trade could get pulled off for anything halfway decent, I'd consider a great trading season.

Edit: Or if Contreras could get traded for literally anything. Churro batter would be fine. I do not want him on the club next season.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 03:56 PM
Can you say that 3 years from now when Dye is to old to move around RF if we sign him to an extension..

If Dye was still here in 2010, I imagine he'd replace Thome at DH.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 03:58 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic

ArkanSox
07-31-2007, 03:58 PM
I have mixed feelings if they extend Dye.Is his loss of range in Right,due to injury or age? And will his bat comeback?

I think JD fought through injuries this season, and in my eyes, he's a special talent. He wants to play for us, and (especially with our outfield situation) I think that we'd be crazy not to resign him.

How 'bout Pods and Dye in the corners and a FA stud in center?
I know, Pods is injury prone, but isn't he about due for a another full season?

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 03:59 PM
What about a one year deal with two option years? Perhaps where the second year is a mutual option: Dye can exercise the option at, say, $6 million. If he declines, then the Sox have an option to keep him at, say, $8 million.
You think is agent will go for that?It would be a good dealfor both.I'd like to keep him at least 1 more year and let Sweeney get some time up here next year.

southside rocks
07-31-2007, 04:00 PM
if you don't like the thread don't read it

Um, that's about as realistic as some of the trade scenarios ... People are going to read stuff they think is ridiculous -- first of all, that's HOW they come to the conclusion that it's ridiculous -- and they're going to comment on it.

I think that if you're disappointed, then your expectations were unrealistically high. The spots that you think need to be filled (and I don't agree with you on a couple of them) weren't going to be filled by trading Jermaine Dye and Jose Contreras, with the years they're having.

KW's right, there's more parity among the MLB clubs in terms of talent than there has been for a long time. It changes the whole environment for dealing.

It's just not realistic to say that because the Sox only dealt Igu and Mack at the July 31 deadline, they're doomed in 2008.

Chicken Dinner
07-31-2007, 04:00 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic

Who are all the free agents after this year. Give me thel list and we'll answer.

TheCommander
07-31-2007, 04:01 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic

Maybe that is because the roster for 2008 doesn't get made on July 31,2007? :rolleyes:

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 04:02 PM
I think JD fought through injuries this season, and in my eyes, he's a special talent. He wants to play for us, and (especially with our outfield situation) I think that we'd be crazy not to resign him.

How 'bout Pods and Dye in the corners and a FA stud in center?
I know, Pods is injury prone, but isn't he about due for a another full season?
I agree,for at least 1 year with options like "frater" mentioned.Just don't lock him in for 3.IMO If you do,and he struggles like he did this year it's really going to be tough to move him.

Paulwny
07-31-2007, 04:02 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic

Who are all the free agents after this year. Give me thel list and we'll answer.

Or tell us who you want and which sox players you trade for your picks.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 04:03 PM
Who are all the free agents after this year. Give me thel list and we'll answer.

http://www.mlb4u.com/freeagency.php

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 04:03 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic
I don't think even K.W has the answers for that right now.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 04:06 PM
If all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year.

I'm disappointed that he couldn't work a favorable deal for a good hitter like Dye. But I'm happy he didn't dump him for Theo's garb.

The key thing now is to get the hackers and utility players on the bench and bring up the real prospects and play them every day. (or put them in the pen).

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 04:08 PM
Also think that Garland, AJ, Thome and Pods will be free agents after next season so we might have to replace them as well..

I'm the type of person who likes to look into the future so we can be strong for many years rather than go year by year...

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 04:10 PM
I'm disappointed that he couldn't work a favorable deal for a good hitter like Dye. But I'm happy he didn't dump him for Theo's garb.

The key thing now is to get the hackers and utility players on the bench and bring up the real prospects and play them every day. (or put them in the pen).


Im also glad we didn't get Pena

Chicken Dinner
07-31-2007, 04:12 PM
Also think that Garland, AJ, Thome and Pods will be free agents after next season so we might have to replace them as well..

I'm the type of person who likes to look into the future so we can be strong for many years rather than go year by year...

It's very difficult to sign all your free agents at one time for 5 years or more. Plus each season exsposes different needs.

ArkanSox
07-31-2007, 04:12 PM
I agree,for at least 1 year with options like "frater" mentioned.Just don't lock him in for 3.IMO If you do,and he struggles like he did this year it's really going to be tough to move him.

If he's all right physically, and the price is right, and he plays like he did last year, we'll be :whiner: that we didn't lock him up.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 04:13 PM
It's very difficult to sign all your free agents at one time for 5 years or more. Plus each season exsposes different needs.


thats why I wouldn't mind traded any of them today except for Garland

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 04:15 PM
Also think that Garland, AJ, Thome and Pods will be free agents after next season so we might have to replace them as well..

I'm the type of person who likes to look into the future so we can be strong for many years rather than go year by year...

Thome can be replaced by JD if we re-sign him and plug Sweeney into Right. Garland could be replaced possibly by Gio if he's ready then, or possibly Egbert. Pods could be replaced by Jerry if he continues to hit. AJ, I'm not so sure who could replace him but we have 2 more offseasons to think about that.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 04:32 PM
All I have to say is GO SOX!!!

voodoochile
07-31-2007, 04:34 PM
Also think that Garland, AJ, Thome and Pods will be free agents after next season so we might have to replace them as well..

I'm the type of person who likes to look into the future so we can be strong for many years rather than go year by year...

But the Sox are still in an open window for championship contender.

A core of Konerko, Thome, Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez, Jenks, Danks, Fields/Crede, Pierzynski and a few young players working out ala Owens, Richar, Sweeney doesn't need to be overhauled from scratch.

At this stage of the game, I wouldn't be upset if Owens was penciled in as the 2008 opening day CF with the thought that either Sweeney or Anderson could step up if he crashed. I'd even take Dye back and let him finish his career here figuring the 3-5 slots would be fine.

Of course that's the point of getting rid of some of the players the Sox have - so the young guns get a chance to show what they can do when playing at this level and see whether they can be counted on next year.

SS and LF and bullpen are the only obvious problem areas at the moment and I trust KW to fill them with players during the off season. If some of the others don't work out, then there will be more options available, but even the bullpen may need less work than we think if some of the good live arms in the minors can continue to develop and make the team next year.

It's 7/31/2007 not 4/1/2008. Expecting this team to be ready to go for next year right now seems dark cloudish to the extreme...

Lukin13
07-31-2007, 04:50 PM
The ONLY thing that seems odd to me is:

In 2005: The asking price was too high so we didn't make any major moves
In 2006: The asking price was too high so we didn't make any major moves
In 2007: The going rate was too low so we didn't make any major moves???


My take..... the White Sox are big time, big city, big payroll baseball now and big time market teams don't rebuild they reload. JD being moved for prospects would upset fans/ticket holders... and a few second rate prospects is not worth upsetting the fanbase.

I think KW would have made a trade if a sure thing was coming back, and that just doesn't happen very often anymore.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Also think that Garland, AJ, Thome and Pods will be free agents after next season so we might have to replace them as well..

I'm the type of person who likes to look into the future so we can be strong for many years rather than go year by year...

I think that KW and most fans also want the Sox to be strong now and in the future. It's an interesting but ultimately futile exercise to look ahead to 2009 and beyond. Yes, I look at Sox prospects and "pencil" them into positions from time to time, but it's all a crapshoot.

Garland could get dealt this offseason. Or, he might sign a long-term extension like Buehrle. Or maybe his "knot" is a torn labrum. Or perhaps he wins the Cy Young award next year. AJ could blow out his knee tonight and never play another game. Or, maybe Donny Lucy progresses, gets a midseason callup next year, and the Sox deem AJ expendable in 2009. Thome could yank his back out of alignment belting a homer and never swing a bat again. Or he could hit #500 this year, and go on and hit 40 more next season, and then retire or try to play two more years and go for 600. Pods could get traded in a waiver wire deal. Or he could hit .300 and steal 30 bases for the rest of the year and the Sox decide to give him an extension. Or he could tear his groin and never play again.

Concerning yourself too much with what might happen in 2009 ultimately will drive you crazy; there simply are too many factors for any person to compute.

On April 1, 2004, who in their right mind would have thought that within 18 months, Valentin, Lee and Maggs would be gone, Frank would be on the DL, Dye would be in right, ex-Twin AJ would be catching, Contreras would be pitching, Iguchi would be playing second base, and we'd have a 99 MPH closer picked up off waivers closing out a 1-0 victory in Game 4 of the World Series - that Freddy Garcia started? Anyone predicting that in April 2004 would have been sent to funny farm.

sullythered
07-31-2007, 05:04 PM
Meh. I'm kinda happy Kenny didn't do anything drastic. Yeah, we need stuff, but I don't think it needs to be blown up. Resign JD if his asking price isn't crazy, sign a CF like Rowand (shut up), a middle infielder if possible, a couple bullpen guys, and hopefully move Jose this offseason. We can do all those things without breaking the bank, Cubs-style. We already have the hardest thing to assemble in baseball: a good starting staff. I don't see any reason why we can't contend next year.

JB98
07-31-2007, 05:10 PM
I'm happy with KW. No, he didn't do anything to excite us for 2008, but he didn't do anything to hurt his cause either. All he did was unload a couple of veterans with expiring contracts who likely weren't in the plans for next year anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a feeling other GMs thought KW was in a position where he HAD TO trade JD for business reasons. They tried to wait KW out, but it was a failed strategy. Reinsdorf didn't order a salary dump, so it doesn't make sense to trade a potential Type A free agent for garbage.

If KW wasn't getting EXACTLY what he wanted for Dye, he was wise to hold on to him. That leaves open the option of an extension. The worst-case scenario now is you offer him arbitration and end up with draft picks.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 05:10 PM
I see that alot of you are bashing me for being disappointed but not one of you mention who will be our
SS
CF
RF
LF
maybe 2B
bullpen

and be realistic

Is it the offseason already?

jabrch
07-31-2007, 05:21 PM
I'm happy with KW. No, he didn't do anything to excite us for 2008, but he didn't do anything to hurt his cause either. All he did was unload a couple of veterans with expiring contracts who likely weren't in the plans for next year anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a feeling other GMs thought KW was in a position where he HAD TO trade JD for business reasons. They tried to wait KW out, but it was a failed strategy. Reinsdorf didn't order a salary dump, so it doesn't make sense to trade a potential Type A free agent for garbage.

If KW wasn't getting EXACTLY what he wanted for Dye, he was wise to hold on to him. That leaves open the option of an extension. The worst-case scenario now is you offer him arbitration and end up with draft picks.

Agreed!

If we'd have traded him for whatever Boston was going to give us, people would ***** that it wasn't enough.

jabrch
07-31-2007, 05:23 PM
The White Sox wanted two players from the group of Justin Masterson, Manny Delcarmen and Craig Hansen to send Jermaine Dye to Boston.

The Red Sox weren't willing to part with either of the first two, and their best offer was Wily Mo Pena and Hansen for Dye. Dye is in the White Sox lineup tonight and could take a contract extension to remain with the team beyond this year.
Source: Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/07/price_too_high.html)
Related: Wily Mo Peņa (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_relatednews.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3071)


I'm glad KW didn't give up JD for less than he was worth.

JB98
07-31-2007, 05:26 PM
I'm glad KW didn't give up JD for less than he was worth.

I'm glad he stayed away from Wily Mo Pena too. That guy reminds me of LTP a little bit too much.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 05:28 PM
I'm glad he stayed away from Wily Mo Pena too. That guy reminds me of LTP a little bit too much.

reminds me more of Joe Borchard.

JB98
07-31-2007, 05:32 PM
reminds me more of Joe Borchard.

LTP is Joe Borchard. Check your WSI glossary!

jabrch
07-31-2007, 05:38 PM
I'm glad he stayed away from Wily Mo Pena too. That guy reminds me of LTP a little bit too much.

I could live with Pena - but I wouldn't give up Dye for him and one prospect. I'd rather either bring Dye back on his 1 year arbitration number, sign him to a 2-3 year extension at a reasonable price or take at least one and possibly two draft picks for him.

Asking for 2 of the 3 on that list wasn't outrageous. But KW has proven over and over again that he is one of the best GMs in baseball at playing chicken. He may get run over by a truck, but you can be he's not going to be the first to blink. He didn't do it with Mark. He didn't do it with trading Dye. He has an idea what his guys are worth, and will wait to get that.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 05:38 PM
LTP is Joe Borchard. Check your WSI glossary!

my bad.

dickallen15
07-31-2007, 05:42 PM
And what makes you believe that? Because a bunch of trades didn't happen today? Not picking up the options of Uribe, Erstad and Pods alone frees up $13 million for next season. You think JR is going to pocket that money?
Buerhle gets a nice little raise next year. Vazquez gets more from the White Sox next season. Garland goes up to $12 million. Jenks is getting more money. AJP gets some more. The payroll is going to be tight. We don't even know what the carnage from this season as far as season ticket drops will be. Saying not picking up the options will free $13 million is a little misleading. If they drop them all they will pay out about $750,000, which is what they are currently paying Erstad. Pods and Uribe make a combined $7 million. The cost to replace the roster spots assuming it all isn't done with Charlotte Knights will probably be very close if not go over that for mediocrity.

JB98
07-31-2007, 05:42 PM
I could live with Pena - but I wouldn't give up Dye for him and one prospect. I'd rather either bring Dye back on his 1 year arbitration number, sign him to a 2-3 year extension at a reasonable price or take at least one and possibly two draft picks for him.

Asking for 2 of the 3 on that list wasn't outrageous. But KW has proven over and over again that he is one of the best GMs in baseball at playing chicken. He may get run over by a truck, but you can be he's not going to be the first to blink. He didn't do it with Mark. He didn't do it with trading Dye. He has an idea what his guys are worth, and will wait to get that.

My impression is Pena was only going to be involved if a third team became part of the trade. Boston wanted desperately to get rid of him, but KW didn't really want the guy on the Sox.

dickallen15
07-31-2007, 05:46 PM
I could live with Pena - but I wouldn't give up Dye for him and one prospect. I'd rather either bring Dye back on his 1 year arbitration number, sign him to a 2-3 year extension at a reasonable price or take at least one and possibly two draft picks for him.

Asking for 2 of the 3 on that list wasn't outrageous. But KW has proven over and over again that he is one of the best GMs in baseball at playing chicken. He may get run over by a truck, but you can be he's not going to be the first to blink. He didn't do it with Mark. He didn't do it with trading Dye. He has an idea what his guys are worth, and will wait to get that.

He has a payroll over $100 million and he's put together a team in fourth place. He's been relegated to dumping relatively modest salaries at the deadline for basically non prospects. The 2 trades he made weren't a bad idea, he has to start saving some cash. But its time to start looking at little more closely at KW. He's not the baseball genius he believes himself to be.

areilly
07-31-2007, 05:46 PM
Is it the offseason already?

Might as well be...

JB98
07-31-2007, 05:51 PM
He has a payroll over $100 million and he's put together a team in fourth place. He's been relegated to dumping relatively modest salaries at the deadline for basically non prospects. The 2 trades he made weren't a bad idea, he has to start saving some cash. But its time to start looking at little more closely at KW. He's not the baseball genius he believes himself to be.

Let's just wait and see what happens next season. It isn't like we've had a host of bad seasons like this one during the KW era. This year marks the first real failure for the Kenny-Ozzie tandem.

SABRSox
07-31-2007, 06:08 PM
Let's just wait and see what happens next season. It isn't like we've had a host of bad seasons like this one during the KW era. This year marks the first real failure for the Kenny-Ozzie tandem.

He's facing a huge uphill battle. That's for sure.

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 06:09 PM
Excellent job by KW today. Not making that dumbass trade with Boston earns him a passing grade for this trade deadline.

JB98
07-31-2007, 06:15 PM
Excellent job by KW today. Not making that dumbass trade with Boston earns him a passing grade for this trade deadline.

Of course, KW's unwillingness to help the beloved Red Sox will earn him harsh criticism from the national media. :rolleyes:

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 06:18 PM
Of course, KW's unwillingness to help the beloved Red Sox will earn him harsh criticism from the national media. :rolleyes:

I am surprised Boston didn't cave. They are just an episode of Manny getting disinterested or Ortiz going down for the season from being extremely vulnerable in the AL.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-31-2007, 06:20 PM
Excellent job by KW today. Not making that dumbass trade with Boston earns him a passing grade for this trade deadline.

KW was obviously not getting anywhere near what he wanted or needed from the BoSox in exchange for Dye. In the Gagne trade, they gave up Gabbard for a player that is eligible for free agency, just like Dye, at the end of the year.

While the BoSox did not have to give up Buchholz or Ellsbury to get Gagne, I think they paid a pretty high price. They must have used the one chip they were going to spend on pitching, not an outfielder.

While everyone bemoans the fact that no trades were made, the Sox will go through waivers with a couple of these guys and then there's always the offseason. There's so much to fix, trading one player like Dye is not going to bring in all the parts needed to be competitive in 2008.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 06:39 PM
The Red Sox have been trying to pawn Pena off on the White Sox for a while. First they wanted Buehrle. Then they wanted Dye.

I'm glad KW told Theo that he can go to hell and keep Pena rotting on their bench.

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 07:04 PM
Buerhle gets a nice little raise next year. Vazquez gets more from the White Sox next season. Garland goes up to $12 million. Jenks is getting more money. AJP gets some more. The payroll is going to be tight. We don't even know what the carnage from this season as far as season ticket drops will be. Saying not picking up the options will free $13 million is a little misleading. If they drop them all they will pay out about $750,000, which is what they are currently paying Erstad. Pods and Uribe make a combined $7 million. The cost to replace the roster spots assuming it all isn't done with Charlotte Knights will probably be very close if not go over that for mediocrity.

Oh, I realize all this. The point is that it's freaking July of 2007 and some people are already bent out of shape about 2008.

Brian26
07-31-2007, 07:11 PM
Of course, KW's unwillingness to help the beloved Red Sox will earn him harsh criticism from the national media. :rolleyes:

Also the Scrubs fan who runs mlbtraderumors out of his mom's garage in Lombard. He had some smarmy remark about Kenny thinking two draft picks are better than Hansen and Pena. :rolleyes:

Brian26
07-31-2007, 07:13 PM
LTP is Joe Borchard. Check your WSI glossary!

Obviously JermaineDye05 hasn't been around the block. His post requires fixing.

He must have been a Brewers fan or something back in '02 when we coined that phrase.

JB98
07-31-2007, 07:17 PM
Also the Scrubs fan who runs mlbtraderumors out of his mom's garage in Lombard. He had some smarmy remark about Kenny thinking two draft picks are better than Hansen and Pena. :rolleyes:

LOL. I'd like to ask that guy one thing: If Pena is so good, how come the Red Sox are so desperate to unload him? :rolleyes:

Vernam
07-31-2007, 07:39 PM
Whitesox.com has posted Kenny's media conference call from this afternoon (http://tinyurl.com/2own7e), for those who can't get enough of the trade deadline chatter.

To me, he sounds pretty down, FWIW. But typically, he says he's "not frustrated, not in the least." Says he didn't wake up today expecting a deal to happen, though he'd hoped the Teixeira trade would shake some other things loose. He summed it up by saying that most teams are just too reluctant to deal young talent, given the cost of even average established players. Nothing very new . . .

Vernam

esbrechtel
07-31-2007, 07:43 PM
If there was a deal to be made Kenny would have made it....JD is still here because we werent getting what we would deserve for unloading him...

Tragg
07-31-2007, 08:19 PM
This team has been a constant contender under Kenny. This was the first bad year he has had - and it was due partially to injuries.

There are many outcomes short of winning a WS that are just fine with me.

Through it all, one Williams team has made the playoffs (albeit quite a run it was). While none of his teams were woefully out of it (until this one), none was really a strong contender right down to the wire either.

He's got a lot of work to do to rebuild this team: SS, LF, CF, leadoff (maybe be one of the aforementioned) plus pretty much an entire bench. And he got really no salary relief in this deadline season, which will make his job more difficult.

What he has is a strong staff of starting pitchers, and a pretty strong set of pitchers near MLB ready. Hopefully we can use that to fix this mess of a positional team.

Getting 1 of owens or sweeney as a starter would be big. But how can we put owens in CF with his arm? Bad defense doesn't mesh with good pitching. Hopefully Sweeney will be called up. Put Dye in LF, Sweeney in right and for now Owens in CF.

That Williams turned down Theo's garb, is what good gms do, which Williams is.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 08:24 PM
KW repeatedly has said he's interested in "championship" players. Whether or not any of us agrees with his assessment of who is an who is not, it's clear the players being offered in return for Dye, etc. are players that he thinks are not of that caliber.

StillMissOzzie
07-31-2007, 08:35 PM
I understand that it takes two to tango.
I understand that other GMs are not going to part with a lot of talent for some of the rentals and not-in-our-plans guys being offered by the Sox.
I would not be surprised if KW/JR didn't want to eat too much of some contracts just to make a move.

I just wish that we, the fans, could have been spared some of the "heads will roll" and "changes will be made, believe you me" bluster from KW in the weeks after the All-Star game if unloading Gooch and Mack were really the extent of it.

Here's to an interesting off-season. Should make for an entertaining SoxFest 2008, too.

SMO
:mad:

JB98
07-31-2007, 08:37 PM
I understand that it takes two to tango.
I understand that other GMs are not going to part with a lot of talent for some of the rentals and not-in-our-plans guys being offered by the Sox.
I would not be surprised if KW/JR didn't want to eat too much of some contracts just to make a move.

I just wish that we, the fans, could have been spared some of the "heads will roll" and "changes will be made, believe you me" bluster from KW in the weeks after the All-Star game if unloading Gooch and Mack were really the extent of it.

Here's to an interesting off-season. Should make for an entertaining SoxFest 2008, too.

SMO
:mad:

I'm pretty sure KW meant it when he said changes would be made. Then, he started aggressively shopping guys and realized what he had wasn't going to bring much in return.

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 08:51 PM
Whats over recating that the team that I love might have another long season next year since we didn't do anything during the trade period..

Who is going to be our
SS
RF
CF
LF
2B If Richar doesn't work out
thats not even counting all the holes in the bullpen

Many people seem to forget that KW filled LF, RF, 2B, C, backup C, and got a 5th starter after the '04 season for '05.

Can he do it again? We'll see...

pierzynski07
07-31-2007, 08:58 PM
Many people seem to forget that KW filled LF, RF, 2B, C, backup C, and got a 5th starter after the '04 season for '05.

Can he do it again? We'll see...
Left field was more of a downgrade stats wise, but a necessary move, and point taken.

JB98
07-31-2007, 09:02 PM
Many people seem to forget that KW filled LF, RF, 2B, C, backup C, and got a 5th starter after the '04 season for '05.

Can he do it again? We'll see...

In addition, he added two arms for the bullpen (Hermy and Viz). A lot can happen between now and April 2008.

champagne030
07-31-2007, 09:02 PM
I'm happy with KW. No, he didn't do anything to excite us for 2008, but he didn't do anything to hurt his cause either. All he did was unload a couple of veterans with expiring contracts who likely weren't in the plans for next year anyway. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a feeling other GMs thought KW was in a position where he HAD TO trade JD for business reasons. They tried to wait KW out, but it was a failed strategy. Reinsdorf didn't order a salary dump, so it doesn't make sense to trade a potential Type A free agent for garbage.

If KW wasn't getting EXACTLY what he wanted for Dye, he was wise to hold on to him. That leaves open the option of an extension. The worst-case scenario now is you offer him arbitration and end up with draft picks.

I'm glad KW didn't take the Boston deal, that's a good sign to me. I do, however, expect JD to be re-signed to a deal or offered arbitration. These national reports, probably jaded, give me slight concern. Excluding major injury, I better not hear "blah, blah, blah" why we didn't offer JD arbitration if it comes to that. We saved enough with Mack and Iguchi to afford a 1/$11M for Dye if he calls KW's bluff.

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:04 PM
In addition, he added two arms for the bullpen (Hermy and Viz). A lot can happen between now and April 2008.

And, let's not forget he got two starting pitchers during the '04 season.

We will need a fifth starter for next season. Hopefully, it comes from a FA signing. I don't know who is on the market, but the thought of Gavin Floyd or Charlie Haegar next year in the rotation scares the **** out of me.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 09:06 PM
if KW makes all the moves so we can be a playoff contender than I will come back here and eat my words and say I was wrong. I just wish this trade period was the start of making us stronger...

I think KW is an amazing GM but today i was unhappy

itsnotrequired
07-31-2007, 09:08 PM
if KW makes all the moves so we can be a playoff contender than I will come back here and eat my words and say I was wrong. I just wish this trade period was the start of making us stronger...

I think KW is an amazing GM but today i was unhappy

So why even start a thread? There is no need to eat words if none are to be eaten.

JB98
07-31-2007, 09:08 PM
And, let's not forget he got two starting pitchers during the '04 season.

We will need a fifth starter for next season. Hopefully, it comes from a FA signing. I don't know who is on the market, but the thought of Gavin Floyd or Charlie Haegar next year in the rotation scares the **** out of me.

Yeah, neither Floyd nor Haeger are exactly pitching themselves into the 2008 plans. Floyd, in particular, has been terrible.

I wonder if Gio can make the jump next year, or whether we'll have to go outside the organization. At the very least, KW should sign a veteran as an insurance policy.

I don't know what the **** you do with Contreras at this point.

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 09:08 PM
if KW makes all the moves so we can be a playoff contender than I will come back here and eat my words and say I was wrong. I just wish this trade period was the start of making us stronger...

I think KW is an amazing GM but today i was unhappy

I've got a terrific deal for you: I'll give you a nice, crisp $20 bill. In return for that, I'd like you to give me a $50 bill. Deal?

Vernam
07-31-2007, 09:19 PM
Yeah, neither Floyd nor Haeger are exactly pitching themselves into the 2008 plans. Floyd, in particular, has been terrible.

I wonder if Gio can make the jump next year, or whether we'll have to go outside the organization. At the very least, KW should sign a veteran as an insurance policy.

I don't know what the **** you do with Contreras at this point.At the very least, he has to go to the pen. If people are frustrated with the idea of Erstad stealing ABs from Owens, the same thinking should apply to Contreras and Floyd. Gavin hasn't shown much, but there's no point in having him on the roster as a mop-up man, especially with Haeger around.

Vernam

JB98
07-31-2007, 09:22 PM
At the very least, he has to go to the pen. If people are frustrated with the idea of Erstad stealing ABs from Owens, the same thinking should apply to Contreras and Floyd. Gavin hasn't shown much, but there's no point in having him on the roster as a mop-up man, especially with Haeger around.

Vernam

True. Contreras needs to be out of the rotation. I just don't know if you put him in the bullpen, DL him or send him to Charlotte. We obviously couldn't trade him.

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 09:23 PM
True. Contreras needs to be out of the rotation. I just don't know if you put him in the bullpen, DL him or send him to Charlotte. We obviously couldn't trade him.

Gotta be the DL. Let him sort out his life and hope baseball comes back to him after that.

MySoxAreClean
07-31-2007, 09:30 PM
:KW You need to stay out of WhiteSox BuisIf all we traded was Iguchi and Mack for 2 single A pitchers that are probably a long shot to make the majors and with the Sox having so many holes going into next season its going to be a very long season next year. I don't see the Sox signing many top free agents

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 09:42 PM
here is what I like to see next year line up look like
1 Danny Richar 2B ( would love to see him play winter ball as a leadoff hitter)
2 Orlando Cabrera SS
3 Carl Crawford LF
4 Paul Konerko 1B
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Aaron Rowand CF
7 AJ Pierzynski C
8 Joe Crede 3B
9 Ryan Sweeney RF

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 09:44 PM
here is what I like to see next year line up look like
1 Danny Richar 2B ( would love to see him play winter ball as a leadoff hitter)
2 Orlando Cabrera SS
3 Carl Crawford LF
4 Paul Konerko 1B
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Aaron Rowand CF
7 AJ Pierzynski C
8 Joe Crede 3B
9 Ryan Sweeney RF

And how do you expect to get Carl Crawford?

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 09:47 PM
And how do you expect to get Carl Crawford?

im not to sure what it would take but I would start a package with Danks than I would sign a free agent pitcher to take his place in the rotation

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:47 PM
im not to sure what it would take but I would start a package with Danks

Then we have three holes to fill in the rotation.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 09:52 PM
Then we have three holes to fill in the rotation.

how do you figure
Buehrle
Garland
Vazquez
Free agent pitcher
Contreras

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:55 PM
how do you figure
Buehrle
Garland
Vazquez
Free agent pitcher
Contreras

:redface: Ah, well, then two open spots. Contreras should be no where near the team next season.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 09:57 PM
:redface: Ah, well, then two open spots. Contreras should be no where near the team next season.


I totally agree with you about Contreras but no team is going to take him off our hands...

chisoxmike
07-31-2007, 09:58 PM
I totally agree with you about Contreras but no team is going to take him off our hands...

Then they need to cut their losses and deal with it. Contreras is a automatic loss. He's worthless.

thomas35forever
07-31-2007, 09:59 PM
What are the chances of the Sox giving Contreras his outright release at the end of the year?

ilsox7
07-31-2007, 10:02 PM
What are the chances of the Sox giving Contreras his outright release at the end of the year?

I'd bet zero.

dickallen15
07-31-2007, 10:28 PM
What are the chances of the Sox giving Contreras his outright release at the end of the year?
About the same as KW admitting Gavin Floyd is not one of the top prospects in baseball.

kittle42
07-31-2007, 11:58 PM
here is what I like to see next year line up look like
1 Danny Richar 2B ( would love to see him play winter ball as a leadoff hitter)
2 Orlando Cabrera SS
3 Carl Crawford LF
4 Paul Konerko 1B
5 Jim Thome DH
6 Aaron Rowand CF
7 AJ Pierzynski C
8 Joe Crede 3B
9 Ryan Sweeney RF


Enjoying your PlayStation, I see.

TDog
07-31-2007, 11:58 PM
And how do you expect to get Carl Crawford?

Carl Crawford probably won't be available for trade until he has only a few months left before free agency. What could you give Tampa Bay that would convince them to part with an inexpensive outfielder who gives people reason to come out to the ballpark? The answer is nothing that a smart GM would agree to.

Crawford puts up numbers, but overall he isn't a winner. This will be on display after some team shells out megabucks for his services.

Nellie_Fox
07-31-2007, 11:59 PM
Enjoying your PlayStation, I see.:rolling:

esbrechtel
08-01-2007, 12:48 AM
im not to sure what it would take but I would start a package with Danks than I would sign a free agent pitcher to take his place in the rotation
Getting rid of Danks is one of the dumbest ideas ever....the only young pitcher that has proved himself...genious...., well I guess the Carl Crawford manlove continues, If I was a betting man I would bet that Crawford NEVER wears the White Sox uniform...

At the very least, he has to go to the pen.

I read that it takes Jose too long to warm up to be able to pitch out of the pen...it takes him over an hour to warm up to pitch....so we are pretty much screwed...

oeo
08-01-2007, 01:02 AM
Carl Crawford probably won't be available for trade until he has only a few months left before free agency. What could you give Tampa Bay that would convince them to part with an inexpensive outfielder who gives people reason to come out to the ballpark? The answer is nothing that a smart GM would agree to.

In all honesty, if Crawford were to be had, we have the best shot we've had in the last few years to acquire him. They wanted McCarthy before. Well, with a surplus of young SP, it's going to have to go somewhere. We could realistically put together a package for him. Will it happen? Probably not.

Crawford puts up numbers, but overall he isn't a winner. This will be on display after some team shells out megabucks for his services.I don't know where this is coming from. Look at the team he plays for.

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2007, 01:11 AM
...with a surplus of young SP, it's going to have to go somewhere. We could realistically put together a package for him. Will it happen? Probably not.Just where is this "surplus" of starting pitching? If the Sox had a surplus of starting pitching, would Contreras still be rolling out there every fifth day?

bradboy70
08-01-2007, 06:42 AM
ever since KW was such a b.t.c.h to Frank Thomas i lost alot of respect for him... i can only hope he retires with sox

soxrme
08-01-2007, 08:16 AM
Kenny did good holding up I would have been upset if he traded Dye for the bare minimum. If the Red Sox weren't going to give us Delcarmen (didnt think him and Mo Pena were worth Dye either) then they weren't going to get Dye. Now Kenny can re-sign Dye for perhaps less, or he could let Dye go and get the 2 draft picks, either way he did better then Willy Mo Pena and Craig Hansen.

He didn't get draft picks for Maggs, got nothing.

soxfan13
08-01-2007, 08:25 AM
ever since KW was such a b.t.c.h to Frank Thomas i lost alot of respect for him... i can only hope he retires with sox

Ahhhhhh the old Williams screwed Thomas arguement, that doesnt fit in this thread:rolleyes:

voodoochile
08-01-2007, 08:29 AM
He didn't get draft picks for Maggs, got nothing.

Right because they weren't going to offer Maggs arbitration without being allowed to examine the knee first.

I'm glad Maggs didn't have to retire, but anyone who is faulting KW for his handling of the Maggs situation is using a HUGE dose of hindsight. At the time it was a very risky situation.

Law11
08-01-2007, 08:40 AM
What's obvious is that baseball has changed.
Look at the starting pitchers who went anywhere.. Loshe and Morris?
Both guys have Contreras type numbers.

Gagne... big deal, batters are hitting .300 off him since the break.
Dotel... KC got a cast off pitcher the Braves just sent down.

Nobody was budging much as far as giving up prospects.
At least Castillo is gone from Minn. I got tired of that slapshot to third routine that seemed to kill us.

We're having a terrible year, then trying to get something for what we have to trade off in a season where GM's are wising up as far as trading top prospects kicks in just when we are trying to score something on the return.

Kenny has his work cut out... Signing Dye might be the best thing.
We have enough other holes to fix.

jabrch
08-01-2007, 08:53 AM
He didn't get draft picks for Maggs, got nothing.

Because there was no reason to offer the guy arbitration if he wouldn't let our doctors examine any of his medical records after he had to go to Europe to get an experimental procedure done on him. I don't blame KW one bit.

ever since KW was such a b.t.c.h to Frank Thomas i lost alot of respect for him... i can only hope he retires with sox

First off, welcome to WSI. Second, enjoy your vacation for language filter evasion. Third, KW did nothing wrong to Frank. It was Frank who couldn't just shut his damn mouth and behave gracefully even for one moment.

southside rocks
08-01-2007, 09:02 AM
What's obvious is that baseball has changed.
Look at the starting pitchers who went anywhere.. Loshe and Morris?
Both guys have Contreras type numbers.

Gagne... big deal, batters are hitting .300 off him since the break.
Dotel... KC got a cast off pitcher the Braves just sent down.

Nobody was budging much as far as giving up prospects.
At least Castillo is gone from Minn. I got tired of that slapshot to third routine that seemed to kill us.

We're having a terrible year, then trying to get something for what we have to trade off in a season where GM's are wising up as far as trading top prospects kicks in just when we are trying to score something on the return.

Kenny has his work cut out... Signing Dye might be the best thing.
We have enough other holes to fix.

I think you're right. It's a really tight market ... KW even said that he was disappointed by what he wasn't able to do on this trading deadline.

Tragg
08-01-2007, 09:38 AM
What's obvious is that baseball has changed.
Look at the starting pitchers who went anywhere.. Loshe and Morris?
Both guys have Contreras type numbers.

Gagne... big deal, batters are hitting .300 off him since the break.
Dotel... KC got a cast off pitcher the Braves just sent down.



Actually, I think Texas got a lot for their reliever. Texas got the supposedly "untouchable" pitching prospect plus two outfielders.
KC got a gascan for a gascan.

This is the time to trade middle relief, not acquire it. We didn't have middle relief to trade, but with the price at absolute peak, Williams was trying to trade FOR middle relievers. Middle relivers are completely unreliable year to year which makes them nice 1/2 year aquisitions. (williams should know: the ones he traded for last year stink).

We also have 3 top pitching prosepects and 3-5 more who are soldid Bs.
WE have 1 top positional prospect.

kitekrazy
08-01-2007, 11:49 AM
Getting rid of Danks is one of the dumbest ideas ever....the only young pitcher that has proved himself...genious...., well I guess the Carl Crawford manlove continues, If I was a betting man I would bet that Crawford NEVER wears the White Sox uniform...



I read that it takes Jose too long to warm up to be able to pitch out of the pen...it takes him over an hour to warm up to pitch....so we are pretty much screwed...

They could always have Jose throw batting practice. It isn't any different than what he's doing on the mound now.

Lip Man 1
08-01-2007, 12:12 PM
It's still early and you can't make an evaluation yet because trading players isn't done. They have to clear waivers, granted, but deals will still be made...plus you have the off season.

I was speaking with a member of the front office / organization yesterday and was told they are expecting a lot of action this winter because this losing isn't any fun.

We'll see...

But only after say early February can you really say if this effort to change this team is a 'disappointment.'

Lip

wdelaney72
08-01-2007, 12:19 PM
Seeing as how we have Sweeney and Owens that need extended looks, I'm disappointed. I dont' want to see Dye, Podsednik, or Erstad play for the rest of the season. The market for Dye this off-season will be very interesting.

kittle42
08-01-2007, 12:22 PM
I dont' want to see Dye, Podsednik, or Erstad play for the rest of the season.

Amen. Get Sweeney up here already!

balke
08-01-2007, 01:21 PM
Sweeney most likely will be called up this second half, but I still plan on going to games so I'd rather see professionals play. Show me what this team can do healthy the rest of the season. I'm not optimistic about the Sox chances at all, but the Florida Marlins showed you don't give up mid season. This is a competitive division, and strange things could happen. The Sox gotta give 100% or close to it til elimination.

JB98
08-01-2007, 01:45 PM
Getting rid of Danks is one of the dumbest ideas ever....the only young pitcher that has proved himself...genious...., well I guess the Carl Crawford manlove continues, If I was a betting man I would bet that Crawford NEVER wears the White Sox uniform...



I read that it takes Jose too long to warm up to be able to pitch out of the pen...it takes him over an hour to warm up to pitch....so we are pretty much screwed...

It doesn't take over an hour for Contreras to warm up. It may take him longer than others, but an hour is overstating it. If he gets sent to the bullpen, he'll need to change his routine. But he's a professional, and he should be able to do it.

rowand33
08-01-2007, 01:54 PM
It doesn't take over an hour for Contreras to warm up. It may take him longer than others, but an hour is overstating it. If he gets sent to the bullpen, he'll need to change his routine. But he's a professional, and he should be able to do it.

He should be able to get out major league batters too...

kittle42
08-01-2007, 02:03 PM
Sweeney most likely will be called up this second half, but I still plan on going to games so I'd rather see professionals play. Show me what this team can do healthy the rest of the season.

There's a surefire way to shoot yourself in the foot for 2008.

whitesoxfan
08-01-2007, 02:16 PM
Sweeney most likely will be called up this second half, but I still plan on going to games so I'd rather see professionals play. Show me what this team can do healthy the rest of the season. I'm not optimistic about the Sox chances at all, but the Florida Marlins showed you don't give up mid season. This is a competitive division, and strange things could happen. The Sox gotta give 100% or close to it til elimination.

Why? Who cares what they do if they're healthy? Get the kids AB's in the majors and see what you have for 2008.

I'm much more interested in seeing the kids play over the "professionals." Hell, it's the only reason why I turn on the games from time to time.

spiffie
08-01-2007, 02:18 PM
It's still early and you can't make an evaluation yet because trading players isn't done. They have to clear waivers, granted, but deals will still be made...plus you have the off season.

I was speaking with a member of the front office / organization yesterday and was told they are expecting a lot of action this winter because this losing isn't any fun.

We'll see...

But only after say early February can you really say if this effort to change this team is a 'disappointment.'

Lip
Ah, but we all know that's not how it goes. Should things not turn around in the following season it is pretty safe to assume the following conversations will take place:

Right now any complaints are met with the totally justified logic that there is an entire offseason to rebuild. Complaints after Aug. 31 will meet the same response.

After the first wave of free agency people who complain will be told that there is still plenty of time to make deals and sign "under the radar" free agents, as opposed to overpriced superstars.

As we enter spring training any complaints will be met with the response that it is unfair to criticize before a single pitch is thrown and that no one knows what will happen.

Any complaints made early in the season will be told that there is still a lot of time left, and that this isn't the NFL where you have to worry about every single game.

Any complaints near the 2008 trade deadline will receive responses of how no one could have foreseen (insert any negative scenario here) and how we don't want to trade (established vet) for (contending team)'s garbage or how we don't want to trade (hot shot prospect) for (available established player) and there's no reason to mortgage the future.

Any complaints after the 2008 trade deadline will be responded to by being told that the team will be in great shape for the 2009 season after KW and team have the 2008 offseason to retool because KW certainly will not in any way accept a third straight bad season.

Throughout this process you will have lots of people
-ripping on Brian Anderson
-ripping on anyone who rips on Brian Anderson
-missing Aaron Rowand
-hating Aaron Rowand if he doesn't come back here
-hating Aaron Rowand if he comes back here
-saying what they would do better than Williams
-saying no one here knows more about baseball than Williams.

jabrch
08-01-2007, 02:24 PM
Ah, but we all know that's not how it goes. Should things not turn around in the following season it is pretty safe to assume the following conversations will take place:

Right now any complaints are met with the totally justified logic that there is an entire offseason to rebuild. Complaints after Aug. 31 will meet the same response.

After the first wave of free agency people who complain will be told that there is still plenty of time to make deals and sign "under the radar" free agents, as opposed to overpriced superstars.

As we enter spring training any complaints will be met with the response that it is unfair to criticize before a single pitch is thrown and that no one knows what will happen.

Any complaints made early in the season will be told that there is still a lot of time left, and that this isn't the NFL where you have to worry about every single game.

Any complaints near the 2008 trade deadline will receive responses of how no one could have foreseen (insert any negative scenario here) and how we don't want to trade (established vet) for (contending team)'s garbage or how we don't want to trade (hot shot prospect) for (available established player) and there's no reason to mortgage the future.

Any complaints after the 2008 trade deadline will be responded to by being told that the team will be in great shape for the 2009 season after KW and team have the 2008 offseason to retool because KW certainly will not in any way accept a third straight bad season.

Throughout this process you will have lots of people
-ripping on Brian Anderson
-ripping on anyone who rips on Brian Anderson
-missing Aaron Rowand
-hating Aaron Rowand if he doesn't come back here
-hating Aaron Rowand if he comes back here
-saying what they would do better than Williams
-saying no one here knows more about baseball than Williams.


While you may be right, it is also possible that things work out well. It has happened before.

Tragg
08-01-2007, 02:39 PM
As bummed as I am about what happened (or didn't) yesterday, get a decent SS and a top-drawer (or soon to be) CF in here and we're contending again.

spiffie
08-01-2007, 03:24 PM
While you may be right, it is also possible that things work out well. It has happened before.
Absolutely it might. That's why I said "Should things not turn around in the following season." While I personally do not expect the Sox to turn it back around in just one season, I would not be shocked if they do, merely a little surprised.

BadBobbyJenks
08-01-2007, 05:15 PM
But I wanted Willy Mo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !