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Cellview22
07-29-2007, 09:21 PM
Did anyone see the WGN News at 9 tonight? I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw what they were doing for one of their top stories (right after 9:00pm). I was actually changing channels when I came across WGN on mute and saw the headline they created "GET ON THE BANDWAGON". I turned up the volume to see what the heck they were talking about, and they were just beginning a new segment. It must've been about a 5 minute segment where the reporter was on the street asking "could this be the year?". They interviewed Cubs fans on the street and at Harry Carrays, all wearing CUbbie gear, of course all wearing the rose-colored glasses, saying this has to be the year. They showed clips of Cubs highlights throughout the years, and never once did they mention the White Sox. I don't think I ever saw a segment devoted to the Sox, even in '05, where the reporter didn't mention the Cubs. It's funny how when the Cubs are in contention, the local media acts like only 1 team represents Chicago, but when the Sox are dominating the league, they report it like .. yep, there's another team in Chicago. :rolleyes: Chill out media, there's still 2 months to go. :o:

Viva Medias B's
07-29-2007, 09:23 PM
This is exactly what I was talking about in a post I made in the Brewers thread.

Lip Man 1
07-29-2007, 09:26 PM
Viva:

And like I replied did you expect anything else when the team and the TV station are owned by the same entity?

Plus in fact it was two seasons ago when the Sox won the title, the good will they got started to fade after the All Star Break last season when they started playing poorly, it disappeared this year.

Lip

Vernam
07-29-2007, 09:28 PM
The hype will make their collapse that much sweeter. Same as it ever was . . .

Vernam

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:34 PM
Did anyone see the WGN News at 9 tonight? I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw what they were doing for one of their top stories (right after 9:00pm). I was actually changing channels when I came across WGN on mute and saw the headline they created "GET ON THE BANDWAGON". I turned up the volume to see what the heck they were talking about, and they were just beginning a new segment. It must've been about a 5 minute segment where the reporter was on the street asking "could this be the year?". They interviewed Cubs fans on the street and at Harry Carrays, all wearing CUbbie gear, of course all wearing the rose-colored glasses, saying this has to be the year. They showed clips of Cubs highlights throughout the years, and never once did they mention the White Sox. I don't think I ever saw a segment devoted to the Sox, even in '05, where the reporter didn't mention the Cubs. It's funny how when the Cubs are in contention, the local media acts like only 1 team represents Chicago, but when the Sox are dominating the league, they report it like .. yep, there's another team in Chicago. :rolleyes: Chill out media, there's still 2 months to go. :o:
Umm there was tons of Sox coverage in 05. What TV were you watching?

Viva Medias B's
07-29-2007, 09:35 PM
Umm there was tons of Sox coverage in 05. What TV were you watching?

Did Sox coverage like this occur on July 29, 2005?

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:37 PM
Did Sox coverage like this occur on July 29, 2005?
Yes I believe it did.

Brian26
07-29-2007, 09:41 PM
Did Sox coverage like this occur on July 29, 2005?

Yes I believe it did.

No. Not even close.

You continue to prove my theory that you're legitimately a scrubs fan in disguise.

Cellview22
07-29-2007, 09:44 PM
Umm there was tons of Sox coverage in 05. What TV were you watching?

I was talking about during the season.. and where there wasn't some mention of the Cubs in the segment. Even the national media does it; every time they mention the White Sox as a lead story, they always mention the team on the north side of town. ...even in the 2005 World Series DVD, look how it starts out!!

At this time in '05, the national media did do a segment on the White Sox and a potential run at the playoffs/World Series, but it was with the headline "Does anyone in Chicago even care?". The AP showed a picture of empty blue seats at a game right before the gates opened at a game in April to make it look like no one cared about the Sox. The local media treated the Sox the same way until we clinched in Detroit... I'm not really complaining, just merely pointing out how the media portrays the White Sox and the lovable losers.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:47 PM
No. Not even close.

You continue to prove my theory that you're legitimately a scrubs fan in disguise.
Cubs fan, no I am not. Cubs hater, no I am not. I just can't stand the bull**** between the 2 teams. I can't figure out why as Sox fans we have to be so occupied about what they do, and as Cub fans they have to be so occupied with us. We play each other 6 times and don't compete for anything against each other unless we, by way of miracle, reach the World Series against each other. One has success and the other fans ***** and moan. Deal with it. A stupid comment I have read and heard numerous times already, " we better not make a trade with the Cubs and help them out!" Why the **** not? If it was the best offer Kenny got then you ****ing take it.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:50 PM
I was talking about during the season.. and where there wasn't some mention of the Cubs in the segment. Even the national media does it; every time they mention the White Sox as a lead story, they always mention the team on the north side of town. ...even in the 2005 World Series DVD, look how it starts out!!

At this time in '05, the national media did do a segment on the White Sox and a potential run at the playoffs/World Series, but it was with the headline "Does anyone in Chicago even care?". The AP showed a picture of empty blue seats at a game right before the gates opened at a game in April to make it look like no one cared about the Sox. The local media treated the Sox the same way until we clinched in Detroit... I'm not really complaining, just merely pointing out how the media portrays the White Sox and the lovable losers.
Don't forget though at this point in 05 we started slipping a little bit and Cleveland started to catch up where as the Cubs are doing to opposite. Also we all know in this city the Cubs are the sweethearts. Why get yourself worked up about it? Personally I don't hate or dislike the Cubs, I hate their fans and stadium and a certain announcer that wears a wig and fake legs.

Brian26
07-29-2007, 09:55 PM
Personally I don't hate or dislike the Cubs, I hate their fans and stadium and a certain announcer that wears a wig and fake legs.

Classy.

I'm guessing Ron Santo, as terrible as he is on the mic, would choose not to wear "fake legs" if he didn't have to. Diabetes is a pretty serious illness.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:56 PM
Classy.

I'm guessing Ron Santo, as terrible as he is on the mic, would choose not to wear "fake legs" if he didn't have to. Diabetes is a pretty serious illness.
Yes I know I have it as does some family members.

BiggestFan14
07-29-2007, 10:00 PM
Cubs fan, no I am not. Cubs hater, no I am not. I just can't stand the bull**** between the 2 teams. I can't figure out why as Sox fans we have to be so occupied about what they do, and as Cub fans they have to be so occupied with us. We play each other 6 times and don't compete for anything against each other unless we, by way of miracle, reach the World Series against each other. One has success and the other fans ***** and moan. Deal with it. A stupid comment I have read and heard numerous times already, " we better not make a trade with the Cubs and help them out!" Why the **** not? If it was the best offer Kenny got then you ****ing take it.
Well said. I hate all this crap between the Cubs and Sox. I'm no Cub fan but I don't make it a point in life to loathe them and root for them to loose. And the teams are definately not rivals. The fans can be rivals, but it gets way too extreme.

Sox Rivals:
1. Twins, Tigers, Indians, Royals






2. Cubs
3. Everyone else in the NL.


As for news coverage, let them have some fun while they can. Don't forget their are Cub fans too. White Sox get enough attention as well when they play well.

Cellview22
07-29-2007, 10:01 PM
Why don't you dislike the Cubs? They play for the most arrogant and annoying fanbase that happens to live among us, and they play for the guy with the wig and fake legs that you hate.

I hate the fans.. and the team.. and the ton of clueless people out there who constantly question why I'm not happy with the Cubbies. :D: I get irritated with all the people who assume I'll be rooting for the Cubs since I'm a sports fan.

Viva Medias B's
07-29-2007, 10:02 PM
FWIW, all three of the big stations (CBS 2, NBC 5, and ABC 7) did not lead off their newscasts the same way WGN did.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 10:05 PM
Why don't you dislike the Cubs? They play for the most arrogant and annoying fanbase that happens to live among us, and they play for the guy with the wig and fake legs that you hate.

I hate the fans.. and the team.. and the ton of clueless people out there who constantly question why I'm not happy with the Cubbies. :D: I get irritated with all the people who assume I'll be rooting for the Cubs since I'm a sports fan.
Because the team is from Chicago. I won't root for the Cubs but I won't root against them. I will root against who ever wins our division and the Yanks. After that I don't care who wins as long as the playoffs are exciting and enjoyable. I hate Santo because he is the same as the fanbase. I hate the Bosox fans as well. I like them though. I like Papi and Manny. Youkilis is a gamer.

Cellview22
07-29-2007, 10:06 PM
FWIW, all three of the big stations (CBS 2, NBC 5, and ABC 7) did not lead off their newscasts the same way WGN did.

They're all compiling their video and sound bites and highlights for next weeks' top stories. Get ready! :D:

WhiteSox5187
07-29-2007, 10:09 PM
I'm more pissed off about the Sox sucking than anything else, but having said that, everytime some Cubs' fan tells me "Hey, we're looking pretty good!" or "This is the year!" I always remind them, "It's July...pennants aren't won in July." This reference seems to elude them...the Cubs are a good team in a bad division and there is still a lot of time for them to **** it up. It looks like the Brewers are in free fall, but the Cardinals (god willing) might get hot. They're hitting is coming around. We'll see. Truth be told, at this point last year I wasn't really think about Minnesota and they caught us.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 10:10 PM
I'm more pissed off about the Sox sucking than anything else, but having said that, everytime some Cubs' fan tells me "Hey, we're looking pretty good!" or "This is the year!" I always remind them, "It's July...pennants aren't won in July." This reference seems to elude them...the Cubs are a good team in a bad division and there is still a lot of time for them to **** it up. It looks like the Brewers are in free fall, but the Cardinals (god willing) might get hot. They're hitting is coming around. We'll see. Truth be told, at this point last year I wasn't really think about Minnesota and they caught us.
I, as was alot of other people especially this site, was saying the same thing in 05.

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2007, 10:11 PM
Cubs fan, no I am not. Cubs hater, no I am not. I just can't stand the bull**** between the 2 teams. I can't figure out why as Sox fans we have to be so occupied about what they do, and as Cub fans they have to be so occupied with us. We play each other 6 times and don't compete for anything against each other unless we, by way of miracle, reach the World Series against each other. One has success and the other fans ***** and moan. Deal with it. A stupid comment I have read and heard numerous times already, " we better not make a trade with the Cubs and help them out!" Why the **** not? If it was the best offer Kenny got then you ****ing take it.

Because we are in direct competition with the Cubs in the Chicago market. The better they do, the harder it makes it on us! It's as simple as that!

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 10:13 PM
Because we are in direct competition with the Cubs in the Chicago market. The better they do, the harder it makes it on us! It's as simple as that!
I look at it like the better the Cubs do the more pressure there is on Kenny and Jerry to build a great team for 08.

Palehose Pete
07-29-2007, 10:19 PM
Guh.

Please don't tell me that this is what we as a fan base have been reduced to just because the Sox are having an off season.

Just don't look. Just don't look.

WhiteSox5187
07-29-2007, 10:21 PM
I look at it like the better the Cubs do the more pressure there is on Kenny and Jerry to build a great team for 08.
Yea...someone pointed out in ST that we are only one good Cubs season from being insignificant again. Don't think the Cubs didn't know this, they saw the park was empty in September and how the Sox beat them in ratings. So they went out and signed a bunch of stupid deals that would make them good for like, a year or two, and then cripple them five years down the road (Soriano in left oughta be a lot of fun when he's thirty eight!). But the sheep will buy it.

Dick Allen
07-29-2007, 10:24 PM
Plain and simple, the Cub cheerleaders/pseudo-journalists/losers, otherwise known as the Chicago media, will be forcing this flubbie love down our throats to the point where it will be nauseating to pick up a newspaper or turn on the TV/radio. We should be used to this by now, but somehow, I never am. As was mentioned earlier, though, it will make it that much sweeter when the eventual collapse comes.

Palehose Pete
07-29-2007, 10:31 PM
I suspect that the Cubs will make it to October, so anyone who isn't ready for the onslaught of Cubbie love should leave the Northern Hemisphere during October.

The collapse will not garner the same romanticized attention that previous collapses have attracted. I think bandwagoners and the media will tire of the same story of the "curse" and "lovable losers" and eventually just see them as chokers.

That is, I deeply hope that will be the case...

It's Time
07-29-2007, 10:35 PM
The Cubs were dead in the water at 32-39, 8.5 games back and having just lost two of three to the Rangers. Then they came to the Cell, swept the Sox and haven't stopped winning since.

You just know the Cubs and their fans will point to the series at the Cell as the turning point of their season.

TheOldRoman
07-29-2007, 11:03 PM
I, as was alot of other people especially this site, was saying the same thing in 05.If you compare what the Sox did (or were doing at this point two years ago) to a second place team in the worst division in baseball, you are nuts. Yes I believe it did.
No, not even close. If fact, at no point before the ALCS did the Sox get the amount of press and pure love from the media that the Cubs are getting NOW. The Sox were clearly the best team in baseball. They barnstormed the the league the entire year, only to have the media do a collective yawn. They ignored the Sox for as long as they could. When they had to recognize the Sox, they said the team was a fluke, and had no chance to make the playoffs, let alone win a championship. Then they rubbed their palms and laughed expecting the Sox epic collapse. They gleefully reminded us daily that the Sox would have the biggest collapse in history. Then as the Sox were rolling through the playoffs, the media trivialized the Sox, claiming that nobody cared, that the only ones at the parade were Cubs fans, and finally saying "well, it isn't close to the Cubs winning, but I guess it is ok anyway."

At what point was the media talking about the Sox going to the world series in 05, let alone claiming it was their year? Two weeks ago, when the Cubs were 4 1/2 games back, Bruce Wolf (who is pure human excrement) lead off the Sports segment on NBC5 with the headline "Next year is here!" I guess they give out trophies to second place teams in July. Maybe you don't remember that the Sox weren't even the lead story on the news the night they won the division.

slavko
07-29-2007, 11:22 PM
? Bruce Wolf (who is pure human excrement)


I understand how worked up you are, but I'm very sure Bruce is a Sox fan who works to a varied audience and not human excrement (nor animal, for that matter). It would give me great pleasure to see Another Heartbreaking Collapse, but what's wrong with letting them have some fun in a 162 game season? I'm not sure if I'd feel this way without '05, but I do. They are playing good ball, admit it. I believe the turning point was Lou's going postal on an umpire, but we helped the cause by laying down 5 of 6.

Grzegorz
07-30-2007, 05:00 AM
Because the team is from Chicago. I won't root for the Cubs but I won't root against them. I will root against who ever wins our division and the Yanks. After that I don't care who wins as long as the playoffs are exciting and enjoyable. I hate Santo because he is the same as the fanbase. I hate the Bosox fans as well. I like them though. I like Papi and Manny. Youkilis is a gamer.

I will always prefer any other MLB team to win the World Series rather than the Cubs.

That said, in my world they do not exist and I continually ignore them.

OBTW, the Cubbie base is getting frothy. I am starting to get comments by just my appearance in my '68 White Sox blue cap.

And, whether a team is from Chicago or not means nothing to me in terms of support. I was raised as a Lions fan and would always prefer a Detroit Tiger WS win over any other team than our White Sox.

The fact that there are more Cubs fans in this town means NOTHING in a logical world. Remember at one time more folks thought the world was flat than round.

ZombieRob
07-30-2007, 05:30 AM
Can't say I hate the team itself.it's the fans and the propaganda i had to deal with growing up that you had to be a Cub fan.IMO the Cubs will win the Division which will make it even more unbearable.THe Brew Crew need to address some issues and to me they arte just to cheap of a team to go spend or take on some money to get better.

tebman
07-30-2007, 08:31 AM
This discussion is a treadmill we've been on before. The thread began with a description of a blatant promotional piece on WGN-TV's newscast that raised the question (again) of the Tribune Company's cross-pollination.

The Tribune is a ravenous beast that needs to keep feeding itself. It owns the newspaper of course, and WGN radio and WGN-TV and CLTV and the Spanish-language newspaper ("Hoy") and Chicago Magazine and a couple dozen other TV stations and newspapers across the country. It owns the Cubs so that it can provide the radio and TV station with steady program material, which is no secret -- that was the reason the bosses gave when they bought the Cubs in 1981. Remember that Andy MacPhail said that the Tribune is the Cubs' "house organ."

The Tribune's and WGN's silly posturing about journalistic integrity is so transparent you could glaze your windows with it. Zell owns the company now and is selling the Cubs. We'll see how much Cubs maypole-dancing happens after the team is no longer owned by the Tribune.

Wake me when the party's over.

soxfan13
07-30-2007, 10:15 AM
Because we are in direct competition with the Cubs in the Chicago market. The better they do, the harder it makes it on us! It's as simple as that!

Wrong if anything has shown you the last couple of years is that the Chicago market is plenty big enough to support both teams. It is up to the Sox fans to keep showing up during the down times so as not to make it harder on Sox management.

russ99
07-30-2007, 11:57 AM
FWIW, all three of the big stations (CBS 2, NBC 5, and ABC 7) did not lead off their newscasts the same way WGN did.

No, but their sports broadcasts and after-news sports programs did. It's like I have to watch Comcast's sports reports to get any Sox coverage at all, and on Comcast it's always after the Cubs' coverage. :angry:

And, in 2005, the media didn't warm up to the Sox completely until the playoffs.

What about that clown who ran onto the field at Wrigley years ago and his new t-shirt slogan, "It's gonna happen!"? Makes me me want to vomit.

I hope the baseball gods are paying attention...

Maybe the rest of you are insulated in other parts of town, but I live and work on the North Side and if the Cubs even get into first place, my life will become much more intolerable. It's like every loud annoying bandwagoning semi-fan comes out of the woodwork around here.

GO BREWERS!!!

chisoxfanatic
07-30-2007, 12:01 PM
OBTW, the Cubbie base is getting frothy. I am starting to get comments by just my appearance in my '68 White Sox blue cap.

Even I received an email in my junk folder from an email address I couldn't figure out that said "Go Cubs" this morning. :rolleyes:

Wrong if anything has shown you the last couple of years is that the Chicago market is plenty big enough to support both teams. It is up to the Sox fans to keep showing up during the down times so as not to make it harder on Sox mangement.

"Last couple of years"??? That would mean AFTER we won the World Series. It took that to revive things here! The Cubs doing well will do nothing but rip down some of the progress our organization has made.

SOXBOY
07-30-2007, 12:05 PM
Who cares! The Sox are second class in this city but the fans are first class.

soxfan13
07-30-2007, 12:31 PM
Even I received an email in my junk folder from an email address I couldn't figure out that said "Go Cubs" this morning. :rolleyes:



"Last couple of years"??? That would mean AFTER we won the World Series. It took that to revive things here! The Cubs doing well will do nothing but rip down some of the progress our organization has made.

Yes, exactly, after the WHITE SOX won the World Series attendance has been up A LOT. I am saying in order for there not to be pressure on management fans have to keep coming out to the games. This has nothing to do with what the Cubs are doing on the other side of town. It has to do with the fickledness of Sox fans.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2007, 12:38 PM
Soxfan 13:

Let me make sure I understand you correctly.

If the product on the field is poor, it's up to the paying customers to keep going out to see it so that the organization doesn't decide to allow that to continue?

:?:

Let's put your comment into another business situation.

I go to a restaurant and the food is poor....so I should keep going back, so the owner doesn't allow the food to get worse?

Lip

ZombieRob
07-30-2007, 12:51 PM
So the Cubs get the lead story in this town.Has it always been this way? And I throw this out to the well Vets of Sox lore.I go as far back as 73' and and I didn't watch the news or read the rags that much since i was only 5.But I do remember the Sox from 75on were the "It" team when it cam to baseball in this town.up until early 80's.Now my Gram who loved Billy Pierce and the Sox since she was a little girl always said the Sox own this city in the 50's and 60's is that true? And what I'm getting at is this .Doesnt this usually happen in stretched were one team has all the pub and the other,well is just there?

soxfan13
07-30-2007, 12:56 PM
Soxfan 13:

Let me make sure I understand you correctly.

If the product on the field is poor, it's up to the paying customers to keep going out to see it so that the organization doesn't decide to allow that to continue?

:?:

Let's put your comment into another business situation.

I go to a restaurant and the food is poor....so I should keep going back, so the owner doesn't allow the food to get worse?

Lip


Completely bad comparision not even in the same ballpark.(Pardon the pun) what I am saying is that White Sox fans are known to abandon the team when things are going rough and actually even when there is a competitive team on the field. The only way the team would be able to improve, is to consistently put fans in the seats. We have a down year with alot of things going wrong in 2007. Does that mean you will not be in attendance next year because its been a rough year? (because with your comparision thats what you are saying) If so thats being no better then someone who jumped on the bandwagon after or during 2005.

ZombieRob
07-30-2007, 01:04 PM
Completely bad comparision not even in the same ballpark.(Pardon the pun) what I am saying is that White Sox fans are known to abandon the team when things are going rough and actually even when there is a competitive team on the field. The only way the team would be able to improve, is to consistently put fans in the seats. We have a down year with alot of things going wrong in 2007. Does that mean you will not be in attendance next year because its been a rough year? (because with your comparision thats what you are saying) If so thats being no better then someone who jumped on the bandwagon after or during 2005.
Well defending Sox fans attending the Park.2006 was kind of a dissapointment and as bad as the first half was this year they still had good turnouts.So I do see the fans giving this Team a chance to fix itself.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2007, 01:13 PM
Zombie:

It is true that the Sox dominated the city and the news coverage during that period. There were a few very good reasons for this.

1. From 1951 through 1967 the Sox had 17 straight winning seasons. They won the pennant in 1959, alomost won the pennant in 1964 and 1967 and had six years in that stretch with 90 or more wins. The Cubs were a joke in that department.

2. The Sox had the nationally known stars, guys like Pierce, Fox, Aparicio, Wynn, Landis Peters, Horlen and Wilhelm. They had large numbers of All Stars in that period. The Cubs had Ernie Banks.

3. The Sox outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 seasons.

Sonfan 13:

Given that I live in Idaho it's not easy for me to see a lot of games in person...LOL

My point was though (even if you disagree with the analogy) that the onus is on the business to produce a product the paying customer wants to support...be that baseball, steak, seafood or clothing.

Not the other way around as you seemed to imply.

Also I'm wondering, can you supply some data to support your comment about Sox fans being known to "abandon the team when things are going rough and actually even when there is a competitive team on the field"

I'm curious as to when was the last season the Sox had say a 'winning' record and poor attendance?

Lip

tony1972
07-30-2007, 01:27 PM
This stuff did bother me..but I don't care anymore..

This weekend we had crowds of 34,000..37,000 and 36,000 to see a team NEAR LAST PLACE. Granted..many of these tickets were pre-sold befoe the season started..but still..there were years we were in first place and couldn't even get 20,000 to show up at the ballpark for many games.

If Chicago is a Cubs town..so be it..if Cubs fans outnumber Sox fans 3 to 1..I don't really care. The Chicago Metro area has nearly 10 million people. If only a third consider themselves followers of the Sox..we still have a pretty big fanbase. I think we diminish ourselves when comparing us to the Cubs..(they are an anomoly)...to sell out game after game, etc..is the exception..not the rule.

And in 2005 it was the Trib/WGN that came up with Soxtober, etc. I have subscribtions to both papers and from about June, 2005 on..the Sox dominated the Tribune and the Cubs were pushed to the last page.

The Cubs are half a game out..the Sox are one or two games better than the Royals..sorry..but the Cubs (this year at least) deserve the front page coverage. If the Sox have been pushed to the back..it's the teams fault for thier own poor play.

I guess I don't care..I just want to go to Sox games and see the fans and the team and enjoy myself. If the Cubs get 40,000 that day and we get 35,000..it doesn't matter to me...

soxinem1
07-30-2007, 01:40 PM
Zombie:


Also I'm wondering, can you supply some data to support your comment about Sox fans being known to "abandon the team when things are going rough and actually even when there is a competitive team on the field"

I'm curious as to when was the last season the Sox had say a 'winning' record and poor attendance?

Lip

I remember in 2005 there were a lot of games when the team didn't draw squat, especially down the stretch.

In 1983, packed houses were common throughout the second half, but it took a huge outpour in the last couple homestands to push the team over 2 million.

The 1982 White Sox, who were an excellent run-scoring and pitching team, won their first nine games and were in contention most of the year. true, the start of the season was delayed several times from snow storms, but once it got warm, the fans still did not come out, as only five teams in the league drew less than the Sox.

In 1993 the White Sox won the division with an attendance drop of 100K from 1992.

The 1992 Sox dropped 250K from 1991. The team wasn't great, but it was the third year in a row that they had a winning season.

To make matters worse, the 1994 White Sox dropped from 3rd to 5th in attendance despite the fact that the team was in or close to first place almost all season, something that the 1993 White Sox did not do.

In 2003 when both the Sox and cubs were knocking on the door or totally in first place, cub fans were showing up at Sox games with signs asking 'Sox fans - where are you? We are here as cub fans rooting for an All-Chicago World Series'.

In 1990 the White Sox didn't pick up in attendance until the closing month and a half of the season. Th is was despite the fact that the team contended most of the year, and went into first place the day they were no-hit and won 4-0. A cub fan friend of mine bought a ticket to the last game of Comiskey Park on game day a half hour before the gates opened.

I hate to say it, and I usually agree with most of your points, but in this instance there is plenty of evidence that the team has had many issues putting fannies in the seats for at least the last 25 years.

soxfan13
07-30-2007, 02:11 PM
Sonfan 13:

Given that I live in Idaho it's not easy for me to see a lot of games in person...LOL

My point was though (even if you disagree with the analogy) that the onus is on the business to produce a product the paying customer wants to support...be that baseball, steak, seafood or clothing.

Not the other way around as you seemed to imply.

Also I'm wondering, can you supply some data to support your comment about Sox fans being known to "abandon the team when things are going rough and actually even when there is a competitive team on the field"

I'm curious as to when was the last season the Sox had say a 'winning' record and poor attendance?

Lip

Yeah I guess that would be a long drive for you to attend games regularly:tongue:

I agree with you that the onus is on the "business" to produce a product that you want to support but remember in baseball which again, alot different then what you are comparing it to, management is putting a product out there that they "hope" is good enough to win. Alot of times things dont work out and thats just the way it goes. Its not like the Sox slashed salaries and threw out a triple A team out there to compete. They threw out there what they thought was their best chance to win. So with that said am I going to stop going to games because it hasnt worked out this year, No because I like to watch the "game " of baseball and I would hope that management in the meanwhile is doing their best to improve the team.

As for examples of competitve White Sox teams with attendance problems you can look at the 4 years leading up to 2005. These stats are from baseball almanac

2000 95-67 won their division Sox atten- 1,947,799 AL AVG-2,262,577
2001 83-79 Sox- 1,766,172 AL AVG-2,346,071
2002 81-81 1,676,804 AL 2,207,891
2003 86-76 1,939,524 AL 2,191,745
2004 83-79 1,930,537 AL 2,340,422


Granted not phenominal teams but yes competitve and the Sox were below the AL Avg in every year (actually in 2005 also)

tebman
07-30-2007, 03:20 PM
Germane to this discussion of the Tribune's attraction to big numbers is this story in (where else?) the Tribune:

Cubs' Billion-Dollar Question (http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-sun_cubs_0729jul29,0,1860352.story)

The gist of it is that financiers who should know better are throwing around one billion as the price the Tribune could get for the Cubs. There is an offhand mention in the text of the article that the company that's selling the Cubs also owns (cough, cough) the newspaper.

Doesn't the Securities and Exchange Commission or the Federal Trade Commission have rules on the books regarding one part of a company pumping up the sale price of another part of the company? Maybe not, but the article sure sounds in parts like a real-estate listing. All that's missing are the exclamation marks.

Lip Man 1
07-30-2007, 04:24 PM
Story should be of interest to all:

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2118763&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Soxinem 1: Hard to argue with your points although you've opened the door to another question entirely, regarding the comment about 'having trouble putting fannies in the seats the past 25 years...'

Certain things were done going back to SportsVision that directly resulted in those problems resulting in the first place or becomming magnified weren't they?

Lip

nsolo
07-31-2007, 08:32 AM
No. Not even close.

You continue to prove my theory that you're legitimately a scrubs fan in disguise.

To support you, I was watching Comcast sports the other morning for Sox highlights. They first covered the Cubs game, then the Brewers, then the tryouts for fans to sing "Take me out to the ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, then a long segment on the Bears. Even though the Sox had won the previous night, nothing was broadcast on the game.

Where I live, South Bend is the market for TV coverage. They are SO pro Cub, SO excited to talk about them, I'd swear that the sportscasters are sitting at their desks sans pants with one had out of view. White Sox coverage is always second to the Cubs. This was true even during 2005.

chisoxfanatic
07-31-2007, 12:20 PM
To support you, I was watching Comcast sports the other morning for Sox highlights. They first covered the Cubs game, then the Brewers, then the tryouts for fans to sing "Take me out to the ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, then a long segment on the Bears. Even though the Sox had won the previous night, nothing was broadcast on the game.

Where I live, South Bend is the market for TV coverage. They are SO pro Cub, SO excited to talk about them, I'd swear that the sportscasters are sitting at their desks sans pants with one had out of view. White Sox coverage is always second to the Cubs. This was true even during 2005.
I was listening to Comcast last night, and one of the guys even said "I guess we'll have to wait just another day for the Cubs to be in first place." :rolleyes: God, I hope Milwaukee pours it on now that they're at home and that St. Louis finds a way to pass them! I'm contemplating buying this one neat Cardinals shirt I saw at Niketown.

oeo
07-31-2007, 12:24 PM
I was listening to Comcast last night, and one of the guys even said "I guess we'll have to wait just another day for the Cubs to be in first place." :rolleyes: God, I hope Milwaukee pours it on now that they're at home and that St. Louis finds a way to pass them! I'm contemplating buying this one neat Cardinals shirt I saw at Niketown.

That would be Mark Schanowski, who has been a biased anchor in Chicago for years. Gail Fischer is another one of those Flubbie-loving anchors. She hosted Chicago Tribune Live last week, and just about **** her pants when Mark Gonzalez said he would not trade Dye for Carlos Marmol.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/extra/gail.jpg
"What?! You wouldn't do that?! Marmol could be the Cubs closer next year!"

If he's in your plans as closer, then why would you want the Cubs to make that deal, you moron.

I'm starting to find Comcast unwatchable unless it's the Sox game or postgame.

Foulke You
07-31-2007, 01:01 PM
That would be Mark Schanowski, who has been a biased anchor in Chicago for years. Gail Fischer is another one of those Flubbie-loving anchors. She hosted Chicago Tribune Live last week, and just about **** her pants when Mark Gonzalez said he would not trade Dye for Carlos Marmol.

http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/extra/gail.jpg
"What?! You wouldn't do that?! Marmol could be the Cubs closer next year!"

If he's in your plans as closer, then why would you want the Cubs to make that deal, you moron.

I'm starting to find Comcast unwatchable unless it's the Sox game or postgame.
Yep, the only one with a brain who works for Comcast is Bill Melton.

Law11
07-31-2007, 01:13 PM
Why is anyone surprised by GN opening with the Cubs.. The two are like PB&J. They go hand in hand always have and barring something with the sale always will.

I for one am so tired of whiney Sox fans (ESPN is dissing us, GN is showing the Cubs, local news is focusing on Cubs first.. etc.. ) who cares... change the channel..

SOX fans dont need the world to love them. We are a tightknit hardcore group
who should care about one thing. The Sox, not how many lines of type we are getting in the news.

When I see anything Cub on I turn the channel.. It's easy.

FielderJones
07-31-2007, 01:51 PM
Story should be of interest to all:
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070730&content_id=2118763&vkey=news_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Lip

Boy, Jerry just couldn't pass up another opportunity to get a shot in at Veeck:

"It was the worst behavior I've ever seen in the ballpark," added Reinsdorf of the crowd demeanor when he took over ownership from Bill Veeck, who once referred to old Comiskey Park as the world's largest outdoor saloon. "We adopted a code of conduct for the fans and started putting the drunks out. That's when we started to get more families coming. "Bill was very proud of the unruly crowd. But Eddie [Einhorn] and I felt that if we were ever going to grow attendance -- and our goal was to someday draw 2 million people -- we would have to attract more than men. Women and children would have to come out."


Being the world's largest outdoor saloon doesn't seem to hurt Wrigley's attendance. Of course, it helps when you have your own grandfathered newspaper, radio, OTA-TV, and cable-TV owned by the same company to promote said saloon.

rwcescato
07-31-2007, 09:27 PM
Don't forget though at this point in 05 we started slipping a little bit and Cleveland started to catch up where as the Cubs are doing to opposite. Also we all know in this city the Cubs are the sweethearts. Why get yourself worked up about it? Personally I don't hate or dislike the Cubs, I hate their fans and stadium and a certain announcer that wears a wig and fake legs.

I really don't care we won the 05 WS and almost swept through the playoffs.
Unless the scrubs can sweep all the playoffs and WS screw them and the media.
Rich

ZombieRob
07-31-2007, 10:01 PM
Boy, Jerry just couldn't pass up another opportunity to get a shot in at Veeck:

"It was the worst behavior I've ever seen in the ballpark," added Reinsdorf of the crowd demeanor when he took over ownership from Bill Veeck, who once referred to old Comiskey Park as the world's largest outdoor saloon. "We adopted a code of conduct for the fans and started putting the drunks out. That's when we started to get more families coming. "Bill was very proud of the unruly crowd. But Eddie [Einhorn] and I felt that if we were ever going to grow attendance -- and our goal was to someday draw 2 million people -- we would have to attract more than men. Women and children would have to come out."


Being the world's largest outdoor saloon doesn't seem to hurt Wrigley's attendance. Of course, it helps when you have your own grandfathered newspaper, radio, OTA-TV, and cable-TV owned by the same company to promote said saloon.
That and the area lost few of establishments when the new park was built I believe.

Frontman
07-31-2007, 10:36 PM
Personally I don't hate or dislike the Cubs, I hate their fans and stadium and a certain announcer that wears a wig and fake legs.

Hey now. Ronny might be annoying as all hell, but his "Walk for the Cure" is something my family helps support, as we have family members with diabetes, including a child. No need to be nasty with the fake legs comment.

As far as the news story, is anyone at all surprised? They won a game that IF the Brewers loose, the Cubs move into first. With two months left to the season; on the trade deadline day where it seems every team in contention made moves to improve EXCEPT for the Cubs.

Look, as a Chicagoan, any Chicago team winning is fine by me. The Cubs getting to the post season? Been there, done that.

As I tell all my Cubs fans who celebrate over this type of stuff.

"My team won the last game of the season. The one that counts for the title. If the Cubs win that? You'll get a congrats out of me. Beyond that? Who gives a care about winning divisions or even going to the Series. Win it outright."

Besides, in 2005; the White Sox ended the city's drought of baseball titles. The Sox got their first.

Frontman
07-31-2007, 10:39 PM
Boy, Jerry just couldn't pass up another opportunity to get a shot in at Veeck:

"It was the worst behavior I've ever seen in the ballpark," added Reinsdorf of the crowd demeanor when he took over ownership from Bill Veeck, who once referred to old Comiskey Park as the world's largest outdoor saloon. "We adopted a code of conduct for the fans and started putting the drunks out. That's when we started to get more families coming. "Bill was very proud of the unruly crowd. But Eddie [Einhorn] and I felt that if we were ever going to grow attendance -- and our goal was to someday draw 2 million people -- we would have to attract more than men. Women and children would have to come out."


Being the world's largest outdoor saloon doesn't seem to hurt Wrigley's attendance. Of course, it helps when you have your own grandfathered newspaper, radio, OTA-TV, and cable-TV owned by the same company to promote said saloon.

Jerry had a point. For a few years there, my Grandad stopped taking us kids to the games as it just got beyond rude and nasty. One of the reason's my Mom didn't keep the season tickets when he died was what would we do with them until me and my brother got old enough to go on our own? (Remember, this is before the ticket exchange/internet; so selling tickets was either to coworkers or going down near the ballpark and taking your chances.)