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Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 03:31 PM
Sigh.

At least Gavin looked good in his inning, and Dye hopefully increased his trade value. Pods, however, did not sell anyone on his value as a plus-defense OF.

...
07-29-2007, 03:33 PM
Pods ****ing blows...

Tragg
07-29-2007, 03:33 PM
It's impossible to score runs with that lineup. Just no chance. Slap hitters up and down the lineup. Few offensive producers. Cintron in the 2 hole. (shouldn't Gonzalez be getting the utility infielder starts pretty soon?).
It's just not serious.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 03:34 PM
Vazquez had another quality start, which is a positive. Although he kind of melted down at the end, he still pitched very well up until that point. I'm really starting to like him as a member of the Sox rotation; IMHO he's about equal with Garland as the #2 behind Garland.

whitesoxfan
07-29-2007, 03:37 PM
It's impossible to score runs with that lineup. Just no chance. Slap hitters up and down the lineup. Few offensive producers. Cintron in the 2 hole. (shouldn't Gonzalez be getting the utility infielder starts pretty soon?).
It's just not serious.

Playing Cintron makes absolutely no sense.

TDog
07-29-2007, 03:38 PM
White Sox pitchers threw 21 scoreless innings against the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays only scored in two innings during the entire series. The bullpen was not scored upon. The White Sox faced tough pitching in the series and took two out of three.

I know people are upset that the Sox didn't sweep, but they are playing good baseball.

JermaineDye05
07-29-2007, 03:41 PM
Playing Cintron makes absolutely no sense.

despite the fact he saved a run in the 1st inning...

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 03:41 PM
I know that during the "June swoon" when the offense sucked for a long stretch (after also sucking for most of April and May), we all agreed we were sick of "tipping our caps" to the opposing pitchers. But even if it makes us want to vomit, sometimes you do have to tip your cap when a pitcher has a great game.

Instead of giving Mark Buehrle credit for all his great starts - like his most recent win, or his no-hitter - would we rather say the opposing offense sucked? Of course not. Buehrle pitched great in those starts!

Yes, the Sox offense didn't hit well today. And yes, they do have some chronic problems. But they faced a pitcher who had a great game.

SOXSINCE'70
07-29-2007, 03:42 PM
It's a shame to waste a quality start by Javy.:thud:

munchman33
07-29-2007, 03:43 PM
White Sox pitchers threw 21 scoreless innings against the Blue Jays. The Blue Jays only scored in two innings during the entire series. The bullpen was not scored upon. The White Sox faced tough pitching in the series and took two out of three.

I know people are upset that the Sox didn't sweep, but they are playing good baseball.

People are upset because it's too late for "good" baseball. If there's any chance of getting back in it, this team has to play exceptional baseball, and win every game they're in.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 03:44 PM
despite the fact he saved a run in the 1st inning...

Still, there are better options than Cintron who are on the Sox right now, or are in Charlotte. I can only hope they are showcasing him for a possible trade. Maybe he can go be somebody else's Geoff Blum.

DickAllen72
07-29-2007, 03:46 PM
I'm tired of Podsednik's antics in LF already. Bring up Sweeney.

lostfan
07-29-2007, 03:47 PM
Javy was lights out. But Marcum was just better.

Every now and again Pods has to remind us of what the rest of his game looks like when he's not at the plate and the other criticisms besides "injury prone." Sure he's great on the basepaths... but just a plain disaster in left.

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2007, 03:57 PM
When you get a chance to sweep, you go out and do it! This team hasn't done that yet this season at home! Just brutal. There's no reason for Cintron and Hall to be in the same lineup, especially with Konerko out and a day off tomorror! I didn't get that lineup makeup.

I'm so/so on the next series. I bet Contreras gives up ARod's 500th.

LITTLE NELL
07-29-2007, 04:00 PM
I'm tired of Podsednik's antics in LF already. Bring up Sweeney.
Could not see the game down here in FL. How did Pods screw up?

DickAllen72
07-29-2007, 04:05 PM
Could not see the game down here in FL. How did Pods screw up?
Made an error on a fly ball near the warning track in LF allowing two unearned runs to score. Ran a long way to get to the ball, got there and the ball glanced right off his glove for the error.

Railsplitter
07-29-2007, 04:08 PM
Blame Ozzie for this loss. :cuss:

Why did have owens try to bunt his way on to lead off the seventh?

Why did he let Javvy talk him into staying in?

SoxSpeed22
07-29-2007, 04:17 PM
Losing games like this stinks all around. A lineup like this was lucky to score one run, Javy was good until the 8th, but you can't sell me that the bullpen guys would've done any better if he was pulled during first and second with one out.

Tragg
07-29-2007, 04:25 PM
but you can't sell me that the bullpen guys would've done any better if he was pulled during first and second with one out.
They probably wouldn't have, based on performance to date...but, what's the choice - add more pitches to Vasquez' arm late in a game in a lost year?
The only thing about Podsednik is - Owens has a long way to get to be a leadoff hitter. So, who are we going to use next year if Owens doesn't demonstrate that he can get on base at least 35% or so of the time?

The Sox and Ozzie have a love for slap hitters, but most contenders really have little use for them...so if the market for Iguchi was non-existent,
then I'd think the market for Erstad and POds is double-secret non-existent.

JB98
07-29-2007, 04:35 PM
We can't afford to rest Konerko when AJ is out of the lineup.

Don't understand the Cintron hate here. He plays once or twice a week. Big ****ing deal. Everyone makes it sound like Ozzie is playing him every day or something. That's just not the case. And Alex saved Vazquez a first-inning run with a tremendous defensive play. On that alone, he contributed more today than several other players in the lineup.

Javy walked Curtis Thigpen in the eighth. That was a mistake, and today was a day where there was no room for error. Tough loss for Vazquez, but he was the second-best pitcher out there today.

MCHSoxFan
07-29-2007, 04:35 PM
When you get a chance to sweep, you go out and do it! This team hasn't done that yet this season at home! Just brutal. There's no reason for Cintron and Hall to be in the same lineup, especially with Konerko out and a day off tomorror! I didn't get that lineup makeup.

I'm so/so on the next series. I bet Contreras gives up ARod's 500th.

Jose WILL. I bet he WILL. I 100% AGREE with you on this crappy line-up. I saw it on the scoreboard and I said to my grandma, "Sox will NOT sweep today!!!" Unfortunately, I was correct.

WHAT A WASTE FOR JAVY!!! :angry:

Man, if I were a Sox starter (Pitcher), I would not be able to sleep most nights. This would be due to frustration. I feel that right now and I am just a fan. :angry::angry::angry:

Hey, maybe when I am a batboy next season, I can give the players a pep talk almost eveyday in the clubhouse before the game.

California Sox
07-29-2007, 04:35 PM
Marcum pitched great, but that may have been the worst lineup Ozzie's thrown out there all year, and that's saying something. Uribe was hitting sixth, 'nuff said.

Wins and losses aren't crucial at this point, but it would be nice to get a read on who's going to play where next year. Also, it would be nice to give Floyd some starts down the stretch to see what we have.

But good to see Javy throw the ball well. I'm not his biggest fan, but this loss was not at all his fault.

Patrick134
07-29-2007, 04:39 PM
Jose WILL. I bet he WILL. I 100% AGREE with you on this crappy line-up. I saw it on the scoreboard and I said to my grandma, "Sox will NOT sweep today!!!" Unfortunately, I was correct.

WHAT A WASTE FOR JAVY!!! :angry:

Man, if I were a Sox starter (Pitcher), I would not be able to sleep most nights. This would be due to frustration. I feel that right now and I am just a fan. :angry::angry::angry:

Hey, maybe when I am a batboy next season, I can give the players a pep talk almost eveyday in the clubhouse before the game.


Don't shed too many tears for the sox staters, they were the ones that kept the sox out of the playoffs last year, when the offense was much better.

kittle42
07-29-2007, 04:40 PM
People are upset because it's too late for "good" baseball. If there's any chance of getting back in it, this team has to play exceptional baseball, and win every game they're in.

People still believe this???

chisox77
07-29-2007, 04:48 PM
Toronto's pitcher was awfully good today. It just felt like one of those games the Sox were going to lose.

There's not much more I can post about this - so we'll see how the Sox will do in the Bronx.

alohafri
07-29-2007, 04:58 PM
It's impossible to score runs with that lineup. Just no chance. Slap hitters up and down the lineup. Few offensive producers. Cintron in the 2 hole. (shouldn't Gonzalez be getting the utility infielder starts pretty soon?).
It's just not serious.

Ozzie should be forced to refund the money of those of us who go to any game he puts in that ****ing lineup he had in there today. I have been saying this for three years. Why must he insist on resting three starters in the same game? I can understand giving a guy a day off here and there, but does he have to rest Paulie, AJ, and Fields in the same game?:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

Tragg
07-29-2007, 05:02 PM
We can't afford to rest Konerko when AJ is out of the lineup.

Don't understand the Cintron hate here. He plays once or twice a week. Big ****ing deal. Everyone makes it sound like Ozzie is playing him every day or something. That's just not the case. And Alex saved Vazquez a first-inning run with a tremendous defensive play. On that alone, he contributed more today than several other players in the lineup.

He has been less than steady defensively for most of the year and plays in close to 1/2 of the games (5 this week; 4 last week), including a stint at DH and some inch hit duty. The main thing is he's paid, 1.9 million and we can get his production at a minimum salary....so I see him as crowding out his replacement utility player, as others see Pods crowding out Sweeney or whatever.

IN 2005 we won with ONE doink hitter in the lineup and he could steal bases and get on at 35%. The number of doinkers on this team multpilied over the last 2 years, and the results are disasterous. I hope that philosophy changes, but I haven't seen much evidence that it will.

whitesoxfan
07-29-2007, 05:14 PM
despite the fact he saved a run in the 1st inning...

Who cares? Does it really matter if we're 8 under .500 or 10 under .500 at the finish of the season? Of course it doesn't. Wins and losses don't mean much of anything right now. Player development, on the other hand, means a whole hell of a lot.

#11
07-29-2007, 05:28 PM
Who cares? Does it really matter if we're 8 under .500 or 10 under .500 at the finish of the season? Of course it doesn't. Wins and losses don't mean much of anything right now. Player development, on the other hand, means a whole hell of a lot.

Exactly. This season is completely blown, and the only reason it matters who we play today is if we're showcasing somebody for a trade. So it makes sense that Dye was in the lineup, but others weren't. My only beef was leaving Vasquez in as long as Ozzie did. Why not give him a little extra rest, even if we expect the bullpen to blow the game?

#11

LITTLE NELL
07-29-2007, 05:30 PM
I hate it when we finish under .500. So far this decade we havent. Plus I have bets with a Cub fan, a Brave fan and a Met fan that the Sox would have a better record.

Viva Medias B's
07-29-2007, 05:36 PM
Pods ****ing blows...

I was at the game. When Pods came to bat in the 8th inning, he was booed by some fans.

During the Chevrolet Pride Crew's first run around the field, members of the Toronto bullpen threw water at them. I was in Section 105 which overlooks the visitors' bullpen. Jeremy Accardo and Brandon League were sitting behind the fence. Solo was the first member of the CPC to run past them and evidently did not get splashed, but when two female members of the CPC following Solo went by, Accardo and/or League threw water from their Gatorade cups at them.

kittle42
07-29-2007, 05:43 PM
I hate it when we finish under .500. So far this decade we havent. Plus I have bets with a Cub fan, a Brave fan and a Met fan that the Sox would have a better record.

You'll lose.

It's Time
07-29-2007, 05:44 PM
No reason to be upset anymore. Lets just hope they get to .500 and the kids develop in the last 2 months.

russ99
07-29-2007, 06:23 PM
Pods play did look awful, but it looked worse than it actually was - since who else on our team could even catch up to that ball. He was still a half-step further away he needed to be to make a clean play. If you look at the replay, his arm is really low when the ball grazed his mitt. If he had come up with it, it would have been a spectacular play, but those are the breaks. At least one Sox fan appreciates the effort, unlike that play in the 7th where the Blue Jay hitter took second base on a single when he caught Owens napping...

Also, Pods error may have put the game out of reach, but that's not why the Sox lost the game:

1. No Konerko, Fields or A.J... I understand that Ozzie needs to give some guys a rest on Sundays but we have 36,000 paying fans there to see the White Sox, not the Sox "b" team. It's especially bad knowing the Sox have an off day tomorrow. They likely would have managed more than 1 hit through 7 against Marcum.

2. The home plate umpire was awful. For Sox hitters, anything close was a strike, especially the corners. For the Jays hitters, different zones popped up at different times, and that ball call on the 2-2 count on the walk Javy gave up in the 8th to start the rally was simply butchered. I hope they had Questec at the game today...

Too bad, Javy looked great tonight, he deserved better. Richar looks like the real deal in the field, needs work at the plate, but with further work and experience, it's looking like he'll be our 2B-man next season.

Grzegorz
07-29-2007, 06:50 PM
Javy walked Curtis Thigpen in the eighth. That was a mistake, and today was a day where there was no room for error. Tough loss for Vazquez, but he was the second-best pitcher out there today.

Well said; no room for error. I want Pods to do well and be a part of the 2008 squad. That is what I'd like to see happen.

I felt he should have caught that ball. Did he have a long run? Yes... Was the ball tailing away from him? Yes...

Did he get a glove on it? Yes...

The Immigrant
07-29-2007, 07:00 PM
That was an awful lineup Marcum faced today. No respectable team rests its starting 1B, 3B and C at the same time.

Great job by Javy keeping it close, but this AAA lineup is lucky it scored a run today. We sure looked like no-hit candidates.

TDog
07-29-2007, 07:37 PM
People are upset because it's too late for "good" baseball. If there's any chance of getting back in it, this team has to play exceptional baseball, and win every game they're in.

During most of my life as a White Sox fan it's been "too late for good baseball." Usually the baseball hasn't been that good. The bad baseball frequent enough, and ranting over the good baseball wouldn't be good for my health. I don't want to shorten my life by getting upset over the good baseball.

TomParrish79
07-29-2007, 08:06 PM
least we won the series

kittle42
07-29-2007, 08:08 PM
least we won the series

:jerry
That's all I ever cared about!

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 08:20 PM
:jerry
That's all I ever cared about!

:jerry
Let's go for ice cream! Who wants sprinkles?

chisoxfanatic
07-29-2007, 08:51 PM
:jerry
That's all I ever cared about!

:jerry
"I taught Ozzie how to make Sunday lineups!"

VenturaFan23
07-29-2007, 08:58 PM
:jerry
"I taught Ozzie how to make Sunday lineups!"

This is why I always dread going to Sunday games. It started when that guy was in charge and it's still in existence today.

Ward Hershberger
07-29-2007, 09:02 PM
I mentioned some of this in another thread too, but I think its worth noting here as well: on July 29th, 2005 Cleveland trailed the Sox by 13.5 and on July 29th 2006, the Minnesota Trailed Detroit by 10.5 - I don't remember the Indians or Twins giving up on either season, making White Flag trades or playing thier Junior Varsity teams - so yeah, I realize its a longshot for the Sox to get back into it, but don't tell me they can't, and I think they owe it to themselves and the fans to give it everything they've got.

MCHSoxFan
07-29-2007, 09:12 PM
I mentioned some of this in another thread too, but I think its worth noting here as well: on July 29th, 2005 Cleveland trailed the Sox by 13.5 and on July 29th 2006, the Minnesota Trailed Detroit by 10.5 - I don't remember the Indians or Twins giving up on either season, making White Flag trades or playing thier Junior Varsity teams - so yeah, I realize its a longshot for the Sox to get back into it, but don't tell me they can't, and I think they owe it to themselves and the fans to give it everything they've got.

I TOTALLY AGREE with you. Another example is the Astros in 2005. At one point, they were 15-30. Yes, I know, that is the NL CENTRAL, however, that is still hard to do. They went all the way to the WORLD SERIES. Yes, they lost, WE WON :D:, but that is darn good.

Brian26
07-29-2007, 09:16 PM
I bet Contreras gives up ARod's 500th.

And his 501st, 502nd, 503rd, and 504th.

itsnotrequired
07-29-2007, 09:17 PM
Eh, I was there today.

Sig update time...

Brian26
07-29-2007, 09:19 PM
Ozzie should be forced to refund the money of those of us who go to any game he puts in that ****ing lineup he had in there today. I have been saying this for three years. Why must he insist on resting three starters in the same game? I can understand giving a guy a day off here and there, but does he have to rest Paulie, AJ, and Fields in the same game?:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

I'm not sure I agree with it, but Ozzie's not the first manager to do this. His predecessor made a habit of doing the "Sunday lineup."

Patrick134
07-29-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm not sure I agree with it, but Ozzie's not the first manager to do this. His predecessor made a habit of doing the "Sunday lineup."


Also, while I like Fields, I wouldn't lump him not playing in with more proven guys like AJ and PK.

Ward Hershberger
07-29-2007, 09:30 PM
I don't get the concept of resting anybody on Sunday when you have an off-day on Monday

Patrick134
07-29-2007, 09:30 PM
I don't get the concept of resting anybody on Sunday when you have an off-day on Monday


Isn't it as much to get the other guys in as it is to rest guys though ?

oeo
07-29-2007, 09:34 PM
Also, while I like Fields, I wouldn't lump him not playing in with more proven guys like AJ and PK.

Paulie asked for the day off. He's played in nearly every game this year, the man is tired.

BTW, can we just skip Contreras' spot in the rotation and give him some extra rest? With the off day, it will work fine...and will increase our chances of winning the series (possibly sweeping).

Ward Hershberger
07-29-2007, 09:47 PM
Isn't it as much to get the other guys in as it is to rest guys though ?

We already have Owens and Richar in the line-up to see what they can do - along with a recovering Pods - and we need to find out what Mack, Cintron and Hall can do too?

Patrick134
07-29-2007, 09:53 PM
We already have Owens and Richar in the line-up to see what they can do - along with a recovering Pods - and we need to find out what Mack, Cintron and Hall can do too?


In theory, for the non rookies, it's just to get them some time out there. It's a 25 man roster.

Ward Hershberger
07-29-2007, 10:06 PM
I understand - I just think its suicidal to play them all at the same time

johnny bench
07-29-2007, 10:17 PM
I was not very happy with Owens allowing Toronto to stretch a leadoff single into a double in the second inning. Looked like he was slow getting to the ball, which gave the runner the idea to stretch. He didn't show me much on the throw to second either.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2007, 06:22 AM
I mentioned some of this in another thread too, but I think its worth noting here as well: on July 29th, 2005 Cleveland trailed the Sox by 13.5 and on July 29th 2006, the Minnesota Trailed Detroit by 10.5 - I don't remember the Indians or Twins giving up on either season, making White Flag trades or playing thier Junior Varsity teams - so yeah, I realize its a longshot for the Sox to get back into it, but don't tell me they can't, and I think they owe it to themselves and the fans to give it everything they've got.

Fair enough. But those teams weren't in fourth place, needing to leapfrog at least two - and probably three - teams to get back into the race.

The Immigrant
07-30-2007, 07:21 AM
His predecessor made a habit of doing the "Sunday lineup."

His predecessor also got ****-canned.

balke
07-30-2007, 08:29 AM
BTW, can we just skip Contreras' spot in the rotation and give him some extra rest? With the off day, it will work fine...and will increase our chances of winning the series (possibly sweeping).

He's been pretty bad, but it doesn't make sense right now to skip his start just because he's been struggling. The Sox are in contention for anything, and the only way Contreras can improve his #'s is with more play throughout the season. We've seen before, he can be awful for a stretch, then all of a sudden be dominant for a longer stretch.

TomBradley72
07-30-2007, 09:14 AM
Yesterday's line up is a mystery to me. We have the first signs of life on this team since early May...two nice wins to start the series coming off beating the Tigers 3/5. We're only three weeks removed from the three day All Star break, big crowd on the last game before a road trip. Fields and AJ should have been in there.

Side note: Why is Hall still playing? Why not get the shoulder repaired ASAP...and accelerate the recovery process?

Foulke You
07-30-2007, 09:43 AM
I was not very happy with Owens allowing Toronto to stretch a leadoff single into a double in the second inning. Looked like he was slow getting to the ball, which gave the runner the idea to stretch. He didn't show me much on the throw to second either.
That play angered me. I hate players who lolly gag after balls like that. Hey Owens, you're trying to make this club for '08 and impress the coaches? Being lazy isn't how you get it done. If he would have hustled and thrown it in right away, the guy would have taken a wide turn and headed back to 1B. BTW, that noodle arm throw of his was also pathetic.

Foulke You
07-30-2007, 09:47 AM
Yesterday's line up is a mystery to me. We have the first signs of life on this team since early May...two nice wins to start the series coming off beating the Tigers 3/5. We're only three weeks removed from the three day All Star break, big crowd on the last game before a road trip. Fields and AJ should have been in there.

Side note: Why is Hall still playing? Why not get the shoulder repaired ASAP...and accelerate the recovery process?
The Sunday lineup or as I call it "The Surrender Sunday Lineup" was pretty terrible. I was at the game thinking I was going to see a loss unless Javy pitched a complete game shutout. He almost did but ran out of gas in the 8th.

Toby has been a huge bust with the Sox so far. I don't believe he is fully recovered from that shoulder injury. It's not the same player. He can't throw a runner out, is average behind the dish, and is almost an automatic out. I don't think he has hit the ball hard since the Cubs series at Wrigley where he made his debut. He looks like he is swinging in slow motion. He needs to shut it down and get healthy. Gustavo Molina can hit as well as Toby right now and would give us better defense behind the dish.

Foulke You
07-30-2007, 09:50 AM
Paulie asked for the day off. He's played in nearly every game this year, the man is tired.
Didn't Paulie get a day off on Friday as well? Personally, I'm beginning to think that they were showcasing Mackowiak for a trade.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 09:52 AM
That play angered me. I hate players who lolly gag after balls like that. Hey Owens, you're trying to make this club for '08 and impress the coaches? Being lazy isn't how you get it done. If he would have hustled and thrown it in right away, the guy would have taken a wide turn and headed back to 1B. BTW, that noodle arm throw of his was also pathetic.
Supposedly Ozzie hates stuff like that so I hope he talked to him about it.
His arm isn't going to get any better, so put him in left, where he'll play, if he plays.

I saw Cintron's play...perhaps it was great for Cintron but run of the mill for someone like Crede. Ozzie gives Cintron a hug for that play - geeze.

soxfanaticpaulie
07-30-2007, 11:43 AM
Sunday's lineup made me sick...I heard the lineup on the radio on the way to the park and was real close to turning around and going home. Ozzie should have that lineup printed on a white flag, and hang it in the dugout when he's giving games away like Sunday. No chance to win with that lineup-baring a complete game shutout (as was mentioned here before)...also Cintron at third made me want to be sick all over my car. Yeah, he made a nice play over there in the first, I'll give him that...but really...Mr. noodle arm at third? Not to mention he's an automatic out...get him off this team please!

I'm glad I went though, because I got a free hat out of it. Really nice hats for hat day, which is par for the course at Comiskular. Even better because I didn't know it was a hat day!