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View Full Version : Let's talk about Jenks again


JB98
07-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Jenks has appeared in five games on this homestand, all White Sox victories:

1-0, 4 saves, 5 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 4Ks

Since everyone was whining and *****ing when Jenks was struggling a couple weeks ago, I thought I would point out that Bobby has righted the ship in a big way. He is now tied for the league lead in saves with 30. It's very unusual for a reliever on a losing team to have 30 saves at this stage of the year.

Good job, Bobby. :gulp:

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 10:54 PM
He is one of the best closers in all of baseball and is going to be for a long time

jabrch
07-28-2007, 11:01 PM
He is one of the best closers in all of baseball and is going to be for a long time

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=90457&highlight=Accardo

That's not possible. There are about 15 guys better than Bobby, most notably, Accardo, Weathers and Gregg. Studs like Gagne, Cordero and Valverde are clearly better than Bobby.

You know how we know this? Because nutjobs overreacted to a few bad outings as if he was the only closer in the history of the game to ever have a few bad outings in a week.

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=90457&highlight=Accardo

That's not possible. There are about 15 guys better than Bobby, most notably, Accardo, Weathers and Gregg. Studs like Gagne, Cordero and Valverde are clearly better than Bobby.

You know how we know this? Because nutjobs overreacted to a few bad outings as if he was the only closer in the history of the game to ever have a few bad outings in a week.
Lol, at first I thought you were serious. But then I realized that you were kidding. Hopefully I am right you're joking. I am right, right????

JB98
07-28-2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=90457&highlight=Accardo

That's not possible. There are about 15 guys better than Bobby, most notably, Accardo, Weathers and Gregg. Studs like Gagne, Cordero and Valverde are clearly better than Bobby.

You know how we know this? Because nutjobs overreacted to a few bad outings as if he was the only closer in the history of the game to ever have a few bad outings in a week.

Funny, I'm watching Gregg implode right now in San Francisco. Weathers got lit up by the Cubs last night. Cordero handed a game to St. Louis this afternoon.

All are better than Jenks.

oeo
07-28-2007, 11:04 PM
Like I said before, Jenks goes through those little slumps every once and awhile, then is unhittable for some time. It wasn't the first time he's gone through one of those slumps, and unfortunately probably won't be the last.

We should know the guy by now:
-He's a big guy, he's never going to be skinny.
-He's going to go through slumps where it almost looks like he must be hurt.
-His Spring Training velocity != his season velocity.

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 11:09 PM
It always seems to be in a cluster when he struggles. He might struggle for a week or 2, but then after, hes lights out.

JB98
07-28-2007, 11:14 PM
It always seems to be in a cluster when he struggles. He might struggle for a week or 2, but then after, hes lights out.

Typically, the struggles come whenever we play Baltimore. Jenks is 72-for-80 in save opportunities since Opening Day 2006. Three of the eight blown saves, including two this year, have come against the Orioles. Of all teams.

jabrch
07-28-2007, 11:17 PM
Lol, at first I thought you were serious. But then I realized that you were kidding. Hopefully I am right you're joking. I am right, right????

Welcome to WSI....Teal indicates sarcasm - or a fetish for South Beach Art Deco.

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 11:18 PM
Welcome to WSI....Teal indicates sarcasm - or a fetish for South Beach Art Deco.
Oh okay.

DoItForDanPasqua
07-28-2007, 11:19 PM
I honestly believe the Sox will be able to contend next year if they can fix the bullpen. The good news is that they already have the best closer in the American League. This needs to be the focus for KW during the offseason or before Wednesday. I think that the two most underrated aspects of a team are outfield defense and the bullpen.

MetroPD
07-30-2007, 08:10 PM
Sorry not buying into it. What will his velocity be next year? 5 games does not make a 3.+ ERA go away.

JB98
07-30-2007, 08:16 PM
Sorry not buying into it. What will his velocity be next year? 5 games does not make a 3.+ ERA go away.

His velocity was 96 on Sunday. I imagine his velocity will be similar next year.

Jenks is 72-for-80 since Opening Day 2006 in saves. I'm not basing anything on just five games. This guy is real solid for us. What the **** do you want?

Patrick134
07-30-2007, 08:16 PM
His velocity was 96 on Sunday. I imagine his velocity will be similar next year.

Jenks is 72-for-80 since Opening Day 2006 in saves. I'm not basing anything on just five games. This guy is real solid for us. What the **** do you want?


I don't know what he wants but I, for one, won't be happy until he "buys into it".

Daver
07-30-2007, 08:29 PM
A "closer" is almost as big a joke as the "save" stat, which was invented by stats inc. about twenty five years ago.

whitesoxfan1986
07-30-2007, 08:38 PM
Sorry not buying into it. What will his velocity be next year? 5 games does not make a 3.+ ERA go away.

His velocity was 96 on Sunday. I imagine his velocity will be similar next year.

Jenks is 72-for-80 since Opening Day 2006 in saves. I'm not basing anything on just five games. This guy is real solid for us. What the **** do you want?
Haven't you guys heard? Jenks loses 3 MPH off his fastball each year. in 2005 it was 98-101. in 2006 it was 95-98 this year it is 92-95 so then next year it will be 89-92 and in 2009 87-90 during which he will be released after posting an ERA close to Aardsma, Sisco and Day's this season.
Actually this is a legit gripe, but I doubt it will actually happen. Yeah, I admit I overreacted when Bobby had a rough stretch. However, I was advocating trading Jenks due to the fact that the net gain over the long run being greater than the net loss of a closer.

soxfanreggie
07-30-2007, 08:52 PM
It is awesome to have Jenks in there to bookend a game. We took a big risk taking him on, and it's paying off for both him and us.

From a contract website (that has been accurate as far as I know): Jenks is making $0.45 this year after being re-signed in Feb. He also received $15,000 for his All-Star selection. He made $0.34 million last season. At the time of reporting, he had 1.090 years of ML service, likely around 2 after this season. How much longer can we keep him so cheap? His first L-T deal is looking to be HUGE, as he has proven to get the job done.

JB98
07-30-2007, 08:54 PM
Haven't you guys heard? Jenks loses 3 MPH off his fastball each year. in 2005 it was 98-101. in 2006 it was 95-98 this year it is 92-95 so then next year it will be 89-92 and in 2009 87-90 during which he will be released after posting an ERA close to Aardsma, Sisco and Day's this season.
Actually this is a legit gripe, but I doubt it will actually happen. Yeah, I admit I overreacted when Bobby had a rough stretch. However, I was advocating trading Jenks due to the fact that the net gain over the long run being greater than the net loss of a closer.

Buehrle's velocity was down last year, and it's back this year. There is no way to predict stuff like that. Jenks is throwing the ball harder now than he was two weeks ago or a month ago. I don't understand why, so I don't worry about it. The only thing that matters is, are you getting the outs?

People think Jenks is Billy Koch for some reason. Koch was a one-pitch pitcher. He lost his fastball, and he was done. Jenks is not that way. His breaking ball is very good. It gets big-league hitters out. There is a reason Bobby leads the league in saves, despite the dip in velocity.

MISoxfan
07-30-2007, 08:58 PM
That has to be partly attributed to the fact that we can't beat teams by more than 3 runs :redneck.

JB98
07-30-2007, 09:03 PM
That has to be partly attributed to the fact that we can't beat teams by more than 3 runs :redneck.

Sure. Our offense has sucked for most of the year. And when it does blow somebody out, the middle relief lets the opposition back in it.

Jenks has 30 saves and three wins. He's played a key role in 33 of our 48 victories.

whitesoxfan1986
07-30-2007, 09:04 PM
Buehrle's velocity was down last year, and it's back this year. There is no way to predict stuff like that. Jenks is throwing the ball harder now than he was two weeks ago or a month ago. I don't understand why, so I don't worry about it. The only thing that matters is, are you getting the outs?

People think Jenks is Billy Koch for some reason. Koch was a one-pitch pitcher. He lost his fastball, and he was done. Jenks is not that way. His breaking ball is very good. It gets big-league hitters out. There is a reason Bobby leads the league in saves, despite the dip in velocity.
Hence the teal. Jenks has arguably the best curveball in the league, IMO it is better than Zito's because of the speed of it, and it breaks almost as much. However, I rarely see him throw anything other than his fastball for strikes, which is why the velocity drop is a concern. Honestly I am worried that Jenks may go the Koch route because of he rarely throws strikes with the breaking ball. It seems like nobody else has picked up on that. If Jenks loses any more velocity, he'll have to throw strikes with the breaking ball or he'll be toast, because hitters will sit on his straight-as-an-arrow fastball.

JB98
07-30-2007, 09:08 PM
Hence the teal. Jenks has arguably the best curveball in the league, IMO it is better than Zito's because of the speed of it, and it breaks almost as much. However, I rarely see him throw anything other than his fastball for strikes, which is why the velocity drop is a concern. Honestly I am worried that Jenks may go the Koch route because of he rarely throws strikes with the breaking ball. If Jenks loses any more velocity, he'll have to throw strikes with the breaking ball or he'll be toast, because hitters will sit on his straight-as-an-arrow fastball.

His fastball isn't straight. He cuts it, especially to left-handed hitters. He's gotten a lot of groundball outs by getting hitters to swing at his slider. And yes, he does throw that pitch for a strike. His curve is most effective when he bounces it.

If Bobby wasn't getting his breaking ball over at all, he'd be getting his brains beat in. Leaving his deuce up and out over the plate was one of his major problems during his recent slump.

AJ Hellraiser
07-30-2007, 09:08 PM
Undoubtedly I am one of the people being referred to as "overreacting" and "jumping off the ledge" when Jenks was struggling....

In my defense, all I was doing was pointing out that closers come and go and a losing team doesn't need an elite one...

My point at the time was that if a trade presented itself for Jenks where the Sox could get 2-3 good parts back i would do it and I still would....

There is a difference in saying a player sucks and hating on them and saying you would agree with a trade if it was a good one...

Just thought I'd point this out before being labeled a dark cloud or something like that

soxfanreggie
07-30-2007, 09:11 PM
Almost nothing better than watching him make people look foolish during out 2005 run with that SICK hook.

TornLabrum
07-30-2007, 09:24 PM
A "closer" is almost as big a joke as the "save" stat, which was invented by stats inc. about twenty five years ago.

The save stat was invented by Jerome Holtzman, Bud Selig's official historian who thought the 1954 Indians and four 20-game winners.

TDog
07-30-2007, 11:42 PM
A "closer" is almost as big a joke as the "save" stat, which was invented by stats inc. about twenty five years ago.

I actually agree with you on the value to the save stat. And I would rather have three or four pitchers who could reliably and interchangeably finish games than a designated "closer" who I would have to bring in to finish out a close game because it's his job.

Nellie_Fox
07-30-2007, 11:45 PM
A "closer" is almost as big a joke as the "save" stat, which was invented by stats inc. about twenty five years ago.I was also going to point out the Jerome Holtzman fact.

Jenks is making $0.45 this year after being re-signed in Feb.He's making 45 this year? I think that he should file a grievance.

JB98
08-04-2007, 09:40 PM
Jenks has now retired 29 consecutive batters.

GlassSox
08-04-2007, 09:51 PM
Jenks has now retired 29 consecutive batters.

Now that sounds like a winning stat! Jenks is getting the job done!

Frater Perdurabo
08-04-2007, 10:05 PM
Jenks has now retired 29 consecutive batters.

Remember in either 2004 or 2005 when Shingo retired 27 consecutive batters? He had the equivalent of a "perfect game" and there were several threads here about it.

What credit has Jenks gotten, other than JB pointing this out to us?

JB98
08-04-2007, 10:17 PM
Remember in either 2004 or 2005 when Shingo retired 27 consecutive batters? He had the equivalent of a "perfect game" and there were several threads here about it.

What credit has Jenks gotten, other than JB pointing this out to us?

I'm just enjoying this because a few weeks back, people were suggesting Bobby was hurt and throwing him under the bus.

At that time, I said I had tremendous faith in Bobby. He's responded to his slump just as I thought he would. He's a solid reliever for us.

FarWestChicago
08-04-2007, 10:17 PM
Remember in either 2004 or 2005 when Shingo retired 27 consecutive batters? He had the equivalent of a "perfect game" and there were several threads here about it.

What credit has Jenks gotten, other than JB pointing this out to us?WSI has changed...a lot. It's totally dominated by armchair GM's and incredibly negative people now. Why celebrate anything when there is so much excellent hating going on?

Frater Perdurabo
08-05-2007, 07:20 AM
WSI has changed...a lot. It's totally dominated by armchair GM's and incredibly negative people now. Why celebrate anything when there is so much excellent hating going on?

And Homefish hasn't even posted much lately... :D:

soxtalker
08-05-2007, 09:43 AM
...
People think Jenks is Billy Koch for some reason. Koch was a one-pitch pitcher. He lost his fastball, and he was done. Jenks is not that way. His breaking ball is very good. It gets big-league hitters out. There is a reason Bobby leads the league in saves, despite the dip in velocity.

Koch probably shouldn't be used as a comparison for any pitcher. People tend to remember that he pitched badly. But it came out later that he was probably ill with the strange Morgellons Disease, which is just recently being investigated by the CDC.

balke
08-05-2007, 10:29 AM
I still think Jenks is a great closer, and I still think if the right trade came along I would've been alright with the Sox losing him.

As Daver said, a "closer" is somewhat overrated. If he could bring 2 bullpen arms that were good, just because he's a "closer" then it would've probably been worth it since the Sox need 5-6 guys in the pen who are major leaguers, and not one. I'll be pretty happy though if Macdougal stays strong now that he's off the DL, Thornton gets back to form, and the Sox pick up one arm in the offseason to secure the pen. In all honesty, what happened with this pen was pretty random. This was the worst case scenario, but it wasn't likely at all. It seems they've settled down a bit though.

jabrch
08-05-2007, 10:56 AM
WSI has changed...a lot. It's totally dominated by armchair GM's and incredibly negative people now. Why celebrate anything when there is so much excellent hating going on?

Well said West. As the Sox won the World Series, I have had to put more and more people on my ignore list as their posts are just unreadable with the negativity and the cricisms by our resident geniuses.

jabrch
08-05-2007, 10:59 AM
Jenks has now retired 29 consecutive batters.

But, just for the record, he's worse than 15 other closers, including Jeremy Accardo, David Weathers and Gregg.

In my eyes Jenks is in the top tier of closers. Whether he is #1, #3 or #6, I don't know - but at that level they are all the same - dominant.

santo=dorf
08-05-2007, 11:46 AM
Remember in either 2004 or 2005 when Shingo retired 27 consecutive batters? He had the equivalent of a "perfect game" and there were several threads here about it.

What credit has Jenks gotten, other than JB pointing this out to us?
Jenks has been under the radar.

Shingo's streak came in 2004 because he was atrocious in 2005 and wasn't with the team in June.

balke
08-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Shingo was more fun to watch with the movement on his pitches, and he had a GONG. I mean come on, a gong?! That's pretty badass. SHINGO TIME!

If Bobby were still throwing 101 with that sick curve and buckling knees all season, he'd have the same hype. I don't care about hype though, I care about results.

JB98
08-05-2007, 05:11 PM
Shingo was more fun to watch with the movement on his pitches, and he had a GONG. I mean come on, a gong?! That's pretty badass. SHINGO TIME!

If Bobby were still throwing 101 with that sick curve and buckling knees all season, he'd have the same hype. I don't care about hype though, I care about results.

People dwell way too much on velocity. Jenks hasn't recovered his 99 mph heat, but somehow, he's managed to retire 32 hitters in a row. That's proof that he's a pitcher, not a thrower.

In fact, I think he's lost some velocity because he uses his offspeed repetoire so much. He has good breaking stuff. If he just threw fastballs all the time, the velocity would probably come back, but he'd also probably get hit more.

soxinem1
08-05-2007, 07:34 PM
A "closer" is almost as big a joke as the "save" stat, which was invented by stats inc. about twenty five years ago.

I for one long for the days when starters go for CG's every time out, and 200 IP doesn't mean you are a workhorse.

That being said, closers have been around for over 50 years, and just like it was way back when, they are almost always guys who could not make it as a starter or are no longer effective enough in that role. Very few guys like Huston Street and Royce Ring, with no college or pro starting experience, are signed as relievers.

I remember Billy Wagner as a hot-shot minor league starter with HOU. I think he only made a small handful of relief outings in the minors, and sort of went into the relief role by accident and his size. Jenks was almost exclusively a starter before he came here also, and was converted to the pen after coming to the Sox organization.

Of all the significant positions and areas in today's game, the closer is the easiest position to fill now, as this person RARELY goes more than an inning. When guys like Wilhelm, Fingers, Gossage, Sutter, and McGraw closed out games, they often pitched 2-3 innings, and even had a few starts mixed in here and there. Managers were able to do that because most of the starters were in double-digits in CG's.

So now with a guy needing to get only 1-3 outs to 'save' a game, the role is becoming so specialized that many closers do not even average an inning an outing anymore.

I'd rather have a few pitchers get 250+ IP, 20+ wins, and a decent ERA than just be happy with a 40+ save closer, because even last place teams can have that type of closer, but not many last place teams have starters like the ones I described.

Closers are indeed, over-rated.

kitekrazy
08-05-2007, 07:53 PM
People dwell way too much on velocity. Jenks hasn't recovered his 99 mph heat, but somehow, he's managed to retire 32 hitters in a row. That's proof that he's a pitcher, not a thrower.

In fact, I think he's lost some velocity because he uses his offspeed repetoire so much. He has good breaking stuff. If he just threw fastballs all the time, the velocity would probably come back, but he'd also probably get hit more.

Hitters still make contact on a 97 mph pitch. If you can't change speeds you'll get hit no matter how hard you throw.

kidmccarthy
08-06-2007, 08:52 AM
Congrats Bobby. I hated on him a bit, because lets face it, he sucked for about 2 weeks. But he has made a nice turnaround, and the team is getting some momentum. Regardless of the streak, he was definately tradeable two weeks ago, only for a huge bounty. To me thats not being negative, just realistic. To each his own though...

The Immigrant
08-09-2007, 01:08 AM
Closer Bobby Jenks pitched a perfect ninth and now has retired a Sox-record 35 consecutive batters, moving him to within three of David Wells' AL record for the New York Yankees in 1998.

This is from the Tribune's 8/8/07 game recap. Bobby is the man.

Iguana775
08-09-2007, 08:47 AM
This is from the Tribune's 8/8/07 game recap. Bobby is the man.

I really hope Bobby can get it. :supernana:

jabrch
08-09-2007, 09:15 AM
I really hope Bobby can get it. :supernana:

If he does, maybe he will be recognized as being just as good as Accardo, Weathers and Gregg?

JB98
08-10-2007, 09:51 PM
If he does, maybe he will be recognized as being just as good as Accardo, Weathers and Gregg?

That's 38 in a row retired. I'm sure Accardo will get a streak like this going soon.

thedudeabides
08-10-2007, 10:08 PM
If he does, maybe he will be recognized as being just as good as Accardo, Weathers and Gregg?

No, Accardo is just having a rough stretch and Jenks just had a couple of good games.

jabrch
08-10-2007, 10:49 PM
That's 38 in a row retired. I'm sure Accardo will get a streak like this going soon.

I still laugh at that one...Accardo, Weathers and Gregg

Brillance!

FarWestChicago
08-11-2007, 09:11 AM
That's 38 in a row retired. I'm sure Accardo will get a streak like this going soon.

I still laugh at that one...Accardo, Weathers and Gregg

Brillance!I'm just totally stunned that the omniscient GM's we have on this board could be wrong about a player. It just doesn't make sense. How do these things happen?

Greg1983
08-11-2007, 09:34 AM
Hello.

I don't post often, not because I wish to be a troll, but mostly because I rarely get to see the Sox so I'm more interested in reading what more knowledgeable Sox fans have to say.

But I want to stand up and be counted as a moron on the Jenks issue. I don't think I posted anything, but I was definitely thinking he had become a chump during his recent slump.

I remember reading on ChicagoSports.com that Ozzie said he was no longer going to use Jenks in the 8th. I thought that was total B.S. "Bobby's a big boy," I thought. "He should be able to get a 4th out."

Again, I don't get to see the team play often around here, but it seems as though it was almost immediately after Ozzie made this pronouncement that Jenks became a stud again.

I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I was an idiot. And I LOVE it when I'm wrong like this.

Just thought I'd mention it. :smile:
Greg1983

FarWestChicago
08-11-2007, 09:39 AM
Hello.

I don't post often, not because I wish to be a troll, but mostly because I rarely get to see the Sox so I'm more interested in reading what more knowledgeable Sox fans have to say.

But I want to stand up and be counted as a moron on the Jenks issue. I don't think I posted anything, but I was definitely thinking he had become a chump during his recent slump.

I remember reading on ChicagoSports.com that Ozzie said he was no longer going to use Jenks in the 8th. I thought that was total B.S. "Bobby's a big boy," I thought. "He should be able to get a 4th out."

Again, I don't get to see the team play often around here, but it seems as though it was almost immediately after Ozzie made this pronouncement that Jenks became a stud again.

I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I was an idiot. And I LOVE it when I'm wrong like this.

Just thought I'd mention it. :smile:
Greg1983I don't care how much you post. You have more guts than 99% of the Dark Clouds and armchair GM's around here. :thumbsup:

balke
08-11-2007, 12:07 PM
Hello.

I don't post often, not because I wish to be a troll, but mostly because I rarely get to see the Sox so I'm more interested in reading what more knowledgeable Sox fans have to say.

But I want to stand up and be counted as a moron on the Jenks issue. I don't think I posted anything, but I was definitely thinking he had become a chump during his recent slump.

I remember reading on ChicagoSports.com that Ozzie said he was no longer going to use Jenks in the 8th. I thought that was total B.S. "Bobby's a big boy," I thought. "He should be able to get a 4th out."

Again, I don't get to see the team play often around here, but it seems as though it was almost immediately after Ozzie made this pronouncement that Jenks became a stud again.

I was wrong, wrong, wrong. I was an idiot. And I LOVE it when I'm wrong like this.

Just thought I'd mention it. :smile:
Greg1983



I once posted that I would tattoo Ozzie's face into my forehead if the Sox ever won a World Series title with Ozzie Guillen managing. I have yet to do so, I don't have the cajones. Its good be to wrong sometimes.

TheVulture
08-11-2007, 12:21 PM
I once posted that I would tattoo Ozzie's face into my forehead if the Sox ever won a World Series title with Ozzie Guillen managing. I have yet to do so, I don't have the cajones. Its good be to wrong sometimes.

I'm inspired to come clean, too. Joe Crede, I apologize for my 2003 through the spring of 2005 posts. Anderson? Mmm, not so much. Also, I regret my claim, at the time of his last contract signing, that Contreras would be pitching like Satchel Paige throughout the term of his deal. I'm sure there's more, but I feel better already.:tongue:

ArkanSox
08-11-2007, 12:32 PM
I once posted that I would tattoo Ozzie's face into my forehead if the Sox ever won a World Series title with Ozzie Guillen managing. I have yet to do so, I don't have the cajones. Its good be to wrong sometimes.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, balke.

Ozzie gets enough ink.

ArkanSox

Dan Mega
08-12-2007, 03:18 PM
He just tied the record today. :bandance::gulp:

Lorenzo Barcelo
08-14-2007, 08:53 PM
According to rotoworld, Jenks injured his ankle at home and won't be able to pitch today. So don't stay up to watch the record.