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ozzie is god
07-27-2007, 11:21 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/MLB/CWS/MLB_Dye_small.jpg
According to FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal, the Red Sox had a three-way deal in place for Jermaine Dye that fell through because of an unspecified issue with a player from the third club.

The third club is unknown. Dye apparently was willing to go to the Red Sox, who were promising to play him five times per week. Something still might happen here. We're guessing Wily Mo Pena and more would go to the unspecified third team. Jul. 27 - 10:59 pm et
Source: FOXSports.com (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7065740)

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 11:24 PM
So we'd be getting players from the third team? At least something is on the table though.

Tragg
07-27-2007, 11:35 PM
So we'd be getting players from the third team? At least something is on the table though.
I think Theo would love to get Jermaine Dye for Willy Pena. I think I would too in his shoes. Boston would have to be contributing more than that, i would think (or at least hope).
What team stupid, er, broad-minded enough to take Pena has a CF or SS prospect that we need?

Foulke You
07-27-2007, 11:46 PM
So we'd be getting players from the third team? At least something is on the table though.
Interesting. It's hard to tell who KW was trying to pry loose in a 3 way deal without knowing who the mystery team was. I'm glad he wasn't biting on Willy Mo though.

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 11:48 PM
I think Theo would love to get Jermaine Dye for Willy Pena. I think I would too in his shoes. Boston would have to be contributing more than that, i would think (or at least hope).
What team stupid, er, broad-minded enough to take Pena has a CF or SS prospect that we need?
Tampa Bay maybe?

Dye to Boston
Reid Bringnac to Sox
WMP & prospect to TB?

I'd be pretty happy with that. :smile:

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 11:50 PM
Tampa Bay maybe?

Dye to Boston
Reid Bringnac to Sox
WMP & prospect to TB?

I'd be pretty happy with that. :smile:

Who is Reid Bringnac???

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 11:55 PM
Who is Reid Bringnac???
A power hitting young SS who tore up the low minors last year. He's hitting .259/.309/.434 in AA this year but has 13 HR, 22 2B, and 4 3B. Questions about his defense though, but a very good offensive prospect. Brendan Harris plays D and is having a nice year, plus Longoria is having a very good year in AA, so maybe he could be available? It's probably a bit of a pipe dream but I could see TB making a move to get a DH and a say a pitching prospect.

jabrch
07-28-2007, 12:01 AM
Who is Reid Bringnac???

Bringnac will be a starting SS in this league shortly. He would cost way more than Pena. Tampa would need to get legitimate pitching prospects for Brignac - fortunately we have that.

A. Cavatica
07-28-2007, 12:33 AM
Dye -> Boston
Pena -> third team
minor league pitcher with good fastball -> Sox

soxfanreggie
07-28-2007, 01:36 AM
Dye for Bubba Bell and Dustin Richardson/Ryan Phillips.

Would like to get something for him because I don't know what we would get as a compensatory pick.

upperdeckusc
07-28-2007, 09:25 AM
Tampa Bay maybe?

Dye to Boston
Reid Bringnac to Sox
WMP & prospect to TB?

I'd be pretty happy with that. :smile:

tampa bay has like 147 legit OF's. i doubt they want WMP, ESPECIALLY if brignac is in the conversation. they'd want a stud SP prospect at least

chaerulez
07-28-2007, 11:02 AM
tampa bay has like 147 legit OF's. i doubt they want WMP, ESPECIALLY if brignac is in the conversation. they'd want a stud SP prospect at least

I agree, unless Tampa is full of idiots they should seek pitching help for any of their prospects.

Mr. White Sox
07-28-2007, 11:51 AM
Tampa Bay maybe?

Dye to Boston
Reid Bringnac to Sox
WMP & prospect to TB?

I'd be pretty happy with that. :smile:

random speculation:

Dye to Boston
WMP and a minor prospect (Lowrie?) to LAD
Chin-Lung Hu to Chicago

This one kind of makes sense; I just have a feeling the Dodgers are interested here. Three way deals are always really difficult to organize though; the real three-way deal could be completely dead. KW may want WMP and Hu, so maybe he's sending something to the Dodgers for WMP ... confusing.

A. Cavatica
07-29-2007, 09:40 AM
In today's Boston Globe, Nick Cafardo writes about the Dye rumor:

"...the one that has fallen through -- at least for the time being -- is probably the one that might have helped the [Red] Sox most."

"...there was a three-way deal talked about in which the Red Sox would have wound up with Dye. One of the players the Sox would have had to give up was Hideki Okajima, according to one major league source, which the team was not prepared to do -- and shouldn't have done."

The article says the Red Sox consider him a half-season rental due to signability. (They wouldn't be able to guarantee him enough playing time.)

Tragg
07-29-2007, 09:45 AM
I get the Dye having to play stuff as he wants his chance at the big contract, and the Sox want to oblige if they can. And most of the teams that trade for him should want to play him.

But what if we don't trade him. Does that mean we have to play him every day for the last 2 months? We need Sweeney in RF.

Cut out middleman Boston and get that SS prospect from the Dodgers direct. If we can get 1 top CF or SS prospect from all of these expiring contracts that will really, really help.

oeo
07-29-2007, 10:04 AM
random speculation:

Dye to Boston
WMP and a minor prospect (Lowrie?) to LAD
Chin-Lung Hu to Chicago

This one kind of makes sense; I just have a feeling the Dodgers are interested here. Three way deals are always really difficult to organize though; the real three-way deal could be completely dead. KW may want WMP and Hu, so maybe he's sending something to the Dodgers for WMP ... confusing.

I think the only way to a big name prospect would be through Garland. I guess Kenny is asking for at least two, though, maybe more, if he's going to deal him.

Tragg
07-29-2007, 07:50 PM
Gammons just said that this is a contract year for Willy Pena. There's no way he can be part of any trade then....no team would want that.

The Immigrant
07-29-2007, 08:04 PM
Gammons just said that this is a contract year for Willy Pena. There's no way he can be part of any trade then....no team would want that.

Gammons really should know better. WMP will have just over 5 years of service time at the end of this year, which means one more year of arbitration.

sullythered
07-29-2007, 08:05 PM
Gammons really should know better. WMP will have just over 5 years of service time at the end of this year, which means one more year of arbitration.

Plus, I don't understand why anyone would give up anything of substance for that guy, even if he wasn't in a contract year.

Wily Mo Pena reminds me of Lyle Mo Mouton.

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 08:08 PM
If KW can't get a decent return for Dye, I'd almost prefer hanging on to him, offering him arbitration, and if he accepts, keep him to play left field.

Tragg
07-29-2007, 08:14 PM
Gammons really should know better. WMP will have just over 5 years of service time at the end of this year, which means one more year of arbitration.
I don't know the rules, but he said no one would offer arbitration

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 08:16 PM
I don't know the rules, but he said no one would offer arbitration
He meant Wli Mo Pena sucks no one would be stupid enough to offer him arbitration when they can have him at the veteran minimum in January.

Tragg
07-29-2007, 08:59 PM
For Boston, Dye would be langinappe; they don't need a hitter. I would think we'd have a better chance of getting some young players that we need from a team that needs a hitter.

A. Cavatica
07-29-2007, 09:18 PM
I wonder if it was Kenny or the third team that was asking for Okajima. I think it would be insane to try to acquire Okajima now; he's been just about perfect, and his value is at its peak. He was a pretty ordinary pitcher in Japan and the league will figure him out.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 09:19 PM
For Boston, Dye would be langinappe; they don't need a hitter. I would think we'd have a better chance of getting some young players that we need from a team that needs a hitter.
Their saying Papi is pretty dinged up right now.

Jjav829
07-29-2007, 09:52 PM
According to Olney, Milwaukee was the 3rd team involved in this deal.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 10:09 PM
According to Olney, Milwaukee was the 3rd team involved in this team.
Dye to Boston, Pena and Contreras to Brewers, Gwynn and Turnbow to SOx?

A. Cavatica
07-29-2007, 10:50 PM
Dye to Boston, Pena and Contreras to Brewers, Gwynn and Turnbow to SOx?

I assume this is just your speculation.

The trade would make sense only for Boston. They get Dye and give up only WMP.

Sox getting another unreliable reliever, and a CF who's probably no better than Jerry Owens, for Dye? Horrible!

And the Brewers would not be giving up much, but Contreras and Pena would not exactly strengthen them for their playoff push. Meh.

getonbckthr
07-29-2007, 10:53 PM
I assume this is just your speculation.

The trade would make sense only for Boston. They get Dye and give up only WMP.

Sox getting another unreliable reliever, and a CF who's probably no better than Jerry Owens, for Dye? Horrible!

And the Brewers would not be giving up much, but Contreras and Pena would not exactly strengthen them for their playoff push. Meh.
Well that would be a good reason for Milwaukee to back out. And yes that was just speculation from names that have been tossed around in trade discussion involving these teams either together or with other teams.

oeo
07-30-2007, 12:58 PM
Looks like something is probably going to happen...
In exchange for Dye, the White Sox would get Wily Mo Pena and one of either minor league pitcher Justin Masterson (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Justin%20Masterson&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=475416) or Sox reliever Manny Delcarmen.http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/07/dye_chances_pre.html

I know a lot of people are against bringing WMP here, but this looks like a good trade for us, regardless.

balke
07-30-2007, 01:04 PM
It makes sense to trade Dye, but I think Dye will be back in Chicago next season.

Dye to Red Sox falls through
Saturday, Jul 28, 2007 11:46 am EDT


A deal that could have sent Chicago White Sox outfielder Jermaine Dye to the Boston Red Sox apparently fell through Friday when the sides could not agree on the players coming back, although one source said Dye did not want to be traded there.
The Los Angeles Angels could have interest in Dye but apparently have been told to forget about first baseman Paul Konerko, who received a rare day off Friday and may get another one Sunday.
Source: Chicago Tribune



That was posted on Yahoo a couple days ago.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2007, 01:10 PM
Deal is still in the works according to MLB trade rumors. Looks like we'd get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 01:18 PM
Deal is still in the works according to MLB trade rumors. Looks like we'd get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson.

I wouldn't put too much stock into what MLB Trade Rumors has to say, they've been wrong more times than not.

oeo
07-30-2007, 01:20 PM
I wouldn't put too much stock into what MLB Trade Rumors has to say, they've been wrong more times than not.

For the last time, MLB Trade Rumors gets its information from stories around the country. It's not like this guy just makes these up, or has a 'source.' He gets the information from other stories, and posts them on one website for convenience.

Some of his opinions suck, but if you're interested in trade rumors, the site is great.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 01:22 PM
For the last time, MLB Trade Rumors gets its information from stories around the country. It's not like this guy just makes these up, or has a 'source.' He gets the information from other stories, and posts them on one website for convenience.

Some of his opinions suck, but if you're interested in trade rumors, the site is great.

I guess, I prefer prosportsdaily myself.

ChiWavDave
07-30-2007, 01:26 PM
Boston Globe is reporting as of about 45 minutes ago..

"In exchange for Dye, the White Sox would get Wily Mo Pena and one of either minor league pitcher Justin Masterson or Sox reliever Manny Delcarmen. "

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 01:31 PM
Boston Globe is reporting as of about 45 minutes ago..

"In exchange for Dye, the White Sox would get Wily Mo Pena and one of either minor league pitcher Justin Masterson or Sox reliever Manny Delcarmen. "

Of the two I'd take Masterson, simply because his numbers in AA are damn good and he's a starter. I could see why the sox have interest in Delcarmen with severe need to improve this bullpen for next year. We also have a severe need to replace Contreras, I don't know if it's Floyd (need to see a few more starts) or someone else, but I'd like to have another young starter waiting in the wings.

God do I envy the Twinkies and their pitching prospects.

oeo
07-30-2007, 01:32 PM
Of the two I'd take Masterson, simply because his numbers in AA are damn good and he's a starter. I could see why the sox have interest in Delcarmen with severe need to improve this bullpen for next year. We also have a severe need to replace Contreras, I don't know if it's Floyd (need to see a few more starts) or someone else, but I'd like to have another young starter waiting in the wings.

God do I envy the Twinkies and their pitching prospects.

We have a young starter waiting in the wings...he goes by the name of Gio Gonzalez. Masterson's stats in AA are after four starts.

If we have depth anywhere, it's in starting pitching...so there's nothing to complain about there.

Gammons Peter
07-30-2007, 01:35 PM
i just threw up in my mouth a little bit

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 01:36 PM
We have a young starter waiting in the wings...he goes by the name of Gio Gonzalez. Masterson's stats in AA are after four starts.

Yeah Gio's the only one (maybe Lance), I'm really excited about him.I just like having good pitching you can never have too much. Take the Twins, they just keep getting better and better.

russ99
07-30-2007, 01:37 PM
Deal is still in the works according to MLB trade rumors. Looks like we'd get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson.

I'm OK with the pitching side of it, but Willy Mo Pena has no business being on the Chicago White Sox, the guy is useless. It's like acquiring another Juan Uribe who can't field.

I'm hoping that this is still a 3-way deal with Pena going to another team for someone else the Sox could use.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 01:39 PM
Yeah Gio's the only one (maybe Lance), I'm really excited about him.I just like having good pitching you can never have too much. Take the Twins, they just keep getting better and better.

scratch the note of Gio being the only prospect we have waiting, I forgot about Egbert who has been really solid this year in Birmingham.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2007, 01:42 PM
On the score they mentioned the possiblity of the trade and they made no mention of Masterson.

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm OK with the pitching side of it, but Willy Mo Pena has no business being on the Chicago White Sox, the guy is useless. It's like acquiring another Juan Uribe who can't field.

I'm hoping that this is still a 3-way deal with Pena going to another team for someone else the Sox could use.

i think the only place he could excel is in the DH position. so unless they have a deal around the corner shipping thome for a SS/OF/bullpen guy, i dunno how pena would fit in either. i am intrigued by his talent and bat, but i dunno if his defense in RF is enough to compensate unless he bats .280 with 45 bombs and 120 rbis in a full season

tm1119
07-30-2007, 01:51 PM
I would much rather have Delcarmen in this deal. We already have a nice 4 man rotation set for next year. We just need 1 of Floyd, Broadway, Sisco, Gonzalez, or Egbert to step up and fill the 5th spot. Thats really not a bad situation to be in for next year.

Our bullpen on the other hand is horrible and really needs to be fixed. And i think Delcarmen is the type of guy who could be a very good set up man to Jenks next year.

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 01:55 PM
I would much rather have Delcarmen in this deal. We already have a nice 4 man rotation set for next year. We just need 1 of Floyd, Broadway, Sisco, Gonzalez, or Egbert to step up and fill the 5th spot. Thats really not a bad situation to be in for next year.

Our bullpen on the other hand is horrible and really needs to be fixed. And i think Delcarmen is the type of guy who could be a very good set up man to Jenks next year.

plus, thinking on the positive side, if macdougal can come back up and keep his success he is having in the minors (good K's, but more importantly, no walks) imagine a backend of the bullpen of jenks, delcarmen, macdougal, thorton. our bullpen wouldnt be too far off of where we'd want it to be than ppl think. but, again, its dependent on macdougal/thornton pitching like they did last yr.

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2007, 01:56 PM
i think the only place he could excel is in the DH position. so unless they have a deal around the corner shipping thome for a SS/OF/bullpen guy, i dunno how pena would fit in either. i am intrigued by his talent and bat, but i dunno if his defense in RF is enough to compensate unless he bats .280 with 45 bombs and 120 rbis in a full season

Something tells me Pena would become our 4th OF.

ChiWavDave
07-30-2007, 01:57 PM
FWIW, there is much handwringing on the Boston boards about giving up Masterson. They seem to feel that he is practically untouchable in their system. They don't like the deal if it includes Masterson from a Boston perspective. So if the sonsofsamhorn folks know as much about their team as the WSI crew does about ours. I say lets pull the trigger!

tm1119
07-30-2007, 02:05 PM
plus, thinking on the positive side, if macdougal can come back up and keep his success he is having in the minors (good K's, but more importantly, no walks) imagine a backend of the bullpen of jenks, delcarmen, macdougal, thorton. our bullpen wouldnt be too far off of where we'd want it to be than ppl think. but, again, its dependent on macdougal/thornton pitching like they did last yr.

Exactly. And there is no reason to think that McDougal wont be at least above average next year. He has been his whole career. Not to mention Aardsma is pitching well in the minors as well. We could have a pretty nice entire pitching staff of...

Buehrle
Garland
Vasquez
Danks
Gio/Egbert

FA Signing
Thorton
Aardsma
McDougal
Delcarmen
Jenks

If we adress the CF and SS positions we could be well on our way back to the playoffs.

oeo
07-30-2007, 02:09 PM
Exactly. And there is no reason to think that McDougal wont be at least above average next year. He has been his whole career. Not to mention Aardsma is pitching well in the minors as well. We could have a pretty nice entire pitching staff of...

Buehrle
Garland
Vasquez
Danks
Gio/Egbert

FA Signing
Thorton
Aardsma
McDougal
Delcarmen
Jenks

If we adress the CF and SS positions we could be well on our way back to the playoffs.

Throw out Aardsma, insert Wassermann, and I like that bullpen.

russ99
07-30-2007, 02:22 PM
Throw out Aardsma, insert Wassermann, and I like that bullpen.

Throw out Pena, insert Ellsbury, Crisp or another good prospect, and I like that trade.

oeo
07-30-2007, 02:24 PM
Throw out Pena, insert Ellsbury, Crisp or another good prospect, and I like that trade.

:?:

Let's be realistic here.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 02:26 PM
Throw out Pena, insert Ellsbury, Crisp or another good prospect, and I like that trade.

Boston's not going to give up Ellsbury or Buchholz.

soxfan43
07-30-2007, 02:27 PM
This would be a good trade if it goes down. Getting any decent young arm in return is obviously a huge plus. Going to college in Ohio, I heard all about Wily Mo from the reds fans there, but this guy has never really been given a legit chance. Throw him in the OF for the rest of the year and see if he can get his BA up. He's got some power, at worst he becomes a good 4th OF and some pop off the bench.

LITTLE NELL
07-30-2007, 02:28 PM
Tribune says Sox on the verge of trading Dye to Bosox for Wily Mo Pena and a minor leaguer.

russ99
07-30-2007, 02:29 PM
:?:

Let's be realistic here.

I am. 2006 MVP candidate Dye (and his 2 draft picks the Red Sox get for not re-signing him) are worth a lot more than Willy Mo Pena and a decent pitcher.

I hope Kenny's a lot smarter than to buy into the potential of Pena turning into a good player without substantial minor league time (and not a few months, more like at least a season.) The Red Sox have been trying to deal Pena forever with no takers. Why should the Sox use their one good trading chip to rebuild the outfield for such a giant question mark?

As for Ellsbury, I agree. Kenny would have to sweeten the deal substantially.

This from a poster on a Red Sox blog when Pena was traded to the Red Sox, I think the same still applies, but 2 years later of little to no development:

Great raw talent. He's an absolute physical specimen. Huge and ripped. Huge hands. Good speed. Strong arm. He has off-the-charts tools. Unreal power -- when he hits them, they stay hit. ... Has worked hard to improve himself. Had one of those contracts that guaranteed him a big-league spot too early, so he really didn't get the minor league polish he needed. ...

On the negative side ... Zero plate discipline. Awful defensive outfielder, although he obviously has the tools to improve this. No "baseball sense" either in the field or on the basepaths. Injury prone ... VERY streaky. He'll go through stretches where it looks like he'll hit any pitch out of the park, and stretches where he looks like he couldn't hit the ball with a sheet of plywood. ...

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Throw out Pena, insert Ellsbury, Crisp or another good prospect, and I like that trade.

I say we just hold out for Ichiro to be traded straight-up for JD . . .

rdivaldi
07-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Hey, what's the score?

Tragg
07-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Why do we want Willy Pena again?.

We went through his last night, but you have to offer arbitration, or you lose him, so that part is probably just to opern up a roster spot for Boston and we're ultimately trading Dye for yet another AA pitcher.

Wonderful.

seventyseven
07-30-2007, 02:35 PM
pardon me, what is the score, sir?

esbrechtel
07-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Why do we want Willy Pena again?.

We went through his last night, but you have to offer arbitration, or you lose him, so that part is probably just to opern up a roster spot for Boston and we're ultimately trading Dye for yet another AA pitcher.

Wonderful.
ugh....my thoughts exactly....

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-30-2007, 02:36 PM
With Texiera traded, I wouldn't be surprised if Dye ends up somewhere else. He might be the best power hitter available next to Dunn. Other teams that missed out on Tex, should have interest in Dye.

Mr. White Sox
07-30-2007, 02:38 PM
Per Rotoworld and boston.com:

The Boston Globe's Gordon Edes says the Red Sox will not part with either Manny Delcarmen or Justin Masterson along with Wily Mo Pena for Jermaine Dye.
Then they're probably not going to get a deal done. Edes says the Red Sox won't give up the young pitcher for a rent-a-player, but it's not just Dye -- it's also the draft picks he'd bring. Masterson was a second-round pick in 2006. The Red Sox would get at least one pick better than that next year if they brought in Dye now and then let him go as a free agent. Jul. 30 - 2:35 pm et

Cuck_The_Fubs
07-30-2007, 02:39 PM
Hey, what's the score?
Not so much. I heard it on the score WSCR, and they say that the deal is close.

jsg-07
07-30-2007, 02:40 PM
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/dye-to-boston.html

It is thought the White Sox might then trade Pena.

Was'nt there a 3rd team involoved initially?? I wonder if the White Sox are still in contact with that 3rd team?

itsnotrequired
07-30-2007, 02:41 PM
Not so much. I heard it on the score WSCR, and they say that the deal is close.

Remember when Buehrle signed that 4 yr/$50 million contract days before it actually happened? I love how the Score is always on top of this stuff.

esbrechtel
07-30-2007, 02:43 PM
Remember when Buehrle signed that 4 yr/$50 million contract days before it actually happened? I love how the Score is always on top of this stuff.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY...there is already a post about this in WTS....when it becomes done then it can be posted here...

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 02:45 PM
Remember when Buehrle signed that 4 yr/$50 million contract days before it actually happened? I love how the Score is always on top of this stuff.

That totally rocked. I had the sparklers, confetti, and Miller High Life out celebrating!

Cuck_The_Fubs
07-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Remember when Buehrle signed that 4 yr/$50 million contract days before it actually happened? I love how the Score is always on top of this stuff.
Yeah, you're right. But, let's factor this into the equation:

Boston is more than likely going to the playoffs. In that case, they might want to pick up a veteran, who could possibly help them in that situation.

In return, we would get a 25 year old OF, who is batting .229 atm. Perhaps they saw something in Pena that they could work on, I dont know.

This deal doesn't seem far-out, and could be true. Who knows. Your guess is as good as mine.

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 02:48 PM
I want to see Dye go to the Angels for Howie Kendrick

RCWHITESOX
07-30-2007, 02:50 PM
Throw out Pena, insert Ellsbury, Crisp or another good prospect, and I like that trade.

We would be lucky to get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson for Dye in a walk year. Another possibility I'm hearing Dye to the LAA for Aybar and Saunders.

Cuck_The_Fubs
07-30-2007, 02:52 PM
We would be lucky to get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson for Dye in a walk year. Another possibility I'm hearing Dye to the LAA for Aybar and Saunders.
Me likey :cool:

oeo
07-30-2007, 02:54 PM
We would be lucky to get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson for Dye in a walk year. Another possibility I'm hearing Dye to the LAA for Aybar and Saunders.

You didn't happen to hear that in a Phoenix airport, did you?

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 02:57 PM
We would be lucky to get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson for Dye in a walk year. Another possibility I'm hearing Dye to the LAA for Aybar and Saunders.

isn't Aybar on the DL? And does he play SS? It says on the Angels roster he was at 2B.

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 02:57 PM
We would be lucky to get Pena and either Delcarmen or Masterson for Dye in a walk year. Another possibility I'm hearing Dye to the LAA for Aybar and Saunders.

Keep in mind that it is 2 months of JD plus 2 first round picks (well one is a sandwich picj I think). Therefore, JD should bring back a decent return, but nothing like some folks in this thread think.

RowanDye
07-30-2007, 03:12 PM
Something tells me Pena would become our 4th OF.

Do you still call someone your 4th OF when you already have a whole outfield full of them? :dunno:

esbrechtel
07-30-2007, 03:13 PM
I think they are planning to go the softball route next year...4 across in the OF

ChiWavDave
07-30-2007, 03:15 PM
Keep in mind that it is 2 months of JD plus 2 first round picks (well one is a sandwich picj I think). Therefore, JD should bring back a decent return, but nothing like some folks in this thread think.

Not necessarily, the White Sox or Red for that matter would have to offer JD arbitration in order to receive the draft picks. Every indication is that the White Sox at least are not inclined to offer JD arbitration for fear of the award, so basically the White Sox if they kept JD past the trade deadline, have decided that they want to keep him and will be able to work out an agreeable deal for him long term.

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 03:16 PM
Not necessarily, the White Sox or Red for that matter would have to offer JD arbitration in order to receive the draft picks. Every indication is that the White Sox at least are not inclined to offer JD arbitration for fear of the award, so basically the White Sox if they kept JD past the trade deadline, have decided that they want to keep him and will be able to work out an agreeable deal for him long term.

There have been absolutely zero indications that the Sox would not offer JD arbitration. In fact, I'd be shocked if they did not.

getonbckthr
07-30-2007, 03:17 PM
I think they are planning to go the softball route next year...4 across in the OF
Where do you play softball? The Short centerfielder is an infielder.

The Immigrant
07-30-2007, 03:20 PM
Keep in mind that it is 2 months of JD plus 2 first round picks (well one is a sandwich picj I think).

Sounds great in theory, but given our recent history in the draft I would rather take two viable prospects for Dye than roll the dice on the likes of Aaron Poreda or Kyle McCulloch.

Gammons Peter
07-30-2007, 03:21 PM
12" is 4 across, 16" is 3 plus a shorts CFer

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 03:31 PM
I don't get why any team would want Pena except as a plaotton or 4th OF guy. If he flops again, he's worthless. If he doesn't.....he's FA in a year, so he's not going to be cheap.

So what again would be the point? I'd rather have the picks.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 03:33 PM
the score now reporting what many of us already know, the deal isn't done because the Red Sox don't want to part with Delcarmen or Masterson.

thomas35forever
07-30-2007, 03:34 PM
the score now reporting what many of us already know, the deal isn't done because the Red Sox don't want to part with Delcarmen or Masterson.
Also said so on mlbtraderumors.com.

getonbckthr
07-30-2007, 03:35 PM
12" is 4 across, 16" is 3 plus a shorts CFer
16' SCF is actually an infielder. 12' why don't you just find an adult baseball league? Just the way I see it.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 03:35 PM
Sounds great in theory, but given our recent history in the draft I would rather take two viable prospects for Dye than roll the dice on the likes of Aaron Poreda or Kyle McCulloch.
Me too.

Jaffar
07-30-2007, 03:44 PM
EPSN is reporting the Sox are trying to sign Dye to a 2-3 yr extension...

sox1970
07-30-2007, 03:46 PM
EPSN is reporting the Sox are trying to sign Dye to a 2-3 yr extension...

If true, I hope they're trying to move Thome. I think it's time to move Dye to DH.

oeo
07-30-2007, 03:46 PM
EPSN is reporting the Sox are trying to sign Dye to a 2-3 yr extension...

The only thing I see here is to increase his trade value, maybe. But if we're going to keep him, two years tops. He's already showing signs of declining.

itsnotrequired
07-30-2007, 03:47 PM
I love this time of the season.

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 03:47 PM
EPSN is reporting the Sox are trying to sign Dye to a 2-3 yr extension...

If you get him at say $8M/yr, that's not bad. Figure the Sox would have had to spend at least that much in FA to get an OF, and if you think Dye's production was down due to injury and you'll get something between 2005 and 2006 for his performance, that's a nice price. Plus, that locks up potentially 3 of the 5 slots on offense with Owens, Richar, Dye. But it does probably take the Sox out of the running for any hope of ARod unless there's a major payroll boost coming.

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 03:47 PM
If true, I hope they're trying to move Thome. I think it's time to move Dye to DH.

Thome isn't going anywhere.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 03:48 PM
EPSN is reporting the Sox are trying to sign Dye to a 2-3 yr extension...
He's getting old. He's not covering RF all that great anymore.
I wonder how much money they're talking about. Dye probably went into this season thinking 10 mill....not no mo.

ChiWavDave
07-30-2007, 03:48 PM
There have been absolutely zero indications that the Sox would not offer JD arbitration. In fact, I'd be shocked if they did not.

Zero indication is not quite right. This off of ESPN today from a Steve Philips/Buster Olney chat. Obviously I'm considering the source, but I also believe that they are in contact with GM's around the league

"Kenny Williams is asking to match the value to two first-round draft picks in return for Dye. GMs don't think Williams would offer Dye arbitration if he doesn't move him and therefore would not get the picks next year."

jabrch
07-30-2007, 03:50 PM
Zero indication is not quite right. This off of ESPN today from a Steve Philips/Buster Olney chat. Obviously I'm considering the source, but I also believe that they are in contact with GM's around the league

"Kenny Williams is asking to match the value to two first-round draft picks in return for Dye. GMs don't think Williams would offer Dye arbitration if he doesn't move him and therefore would not get the picks next year."

I don't see why we wouldn't offer him arbitration.

itsnotrequired
07-30-2007, 03:54 PM
I don't see why we wouldn't offer him arbitration.

Unless KW wants the draft picks and doesn't want to bring him back. There is always the chance he would accept.

ChiWavDave
07-30-2007, 03:54 PM
I don't see why we wouldn't offer him arbitration.

People are far more familiar with the salaries around here than I am, but my guess would be that Kenny has that corner outfield position slotted for a younger lower paid option and doesn't want to be stuck in a situation where he's committed 7-8+ Million to it through arbitration. I think the key idea here is either they will trade him at the deadline, or give him an extension. I don't see it getting to the point where we would get picks (FA + arbitration). Lord knows I've been wrong before, but thats how the tea leaves look to me right now...

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 03:55 PM
Zero indication is not quite right. This off of ESPN today from a Steve Philips/Buster Olney chat. Obviously I'm considering the source, but I also believe that they are in contact with GM's around the league

"Kenny Williams is asking to match the value to two first-round draft picks in return for Dye. GMs don't think Williams would offer Dye arbitration if he doesn't move him and therefore would not get the picks next year."

If he really believes that there there's an idiot somewhere. Because worst case is Dye on a 1-year deal at about $8M, which is not a killer for the Sox given their dearth of solid OF players. Hell, if nothing else, you take JD on that deal and shop him as soon as he's hot.

So either Kenny's an idiot for not wanting to offer him Arb or Phillips is an idiot for not recognizing that he'll offer because the price will be low. Wanna guess which one I think it is?

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 03:55 PM
Unless KW wants the draft picks and doesn't want to bring him back. There is always the chance he would accept.

The only way JD accepts, IMO, is if he feels he can have a monster 2008 and still cash in on a $50MM deal. There is no way that happens, though, as I think this year ruined him in a lot of ways. Some team will be willing to give him a 2 or 3 year deal, meaning he would be passing up guaranteed millions by accepting arbitration with the Sox.

itsnotrequired
07-30-2007, 03:56 PM
The only way JD accepts, IMO, is if he feels he can have a monster 2008 and still cash in on a $50MM deal. There is no way that happens, though, as I think this year ruined him in a lot of ways. Some team will be willing to give him a 2 or 3 year deal, meaning he would be passing up guaranteed millions by accepting arbitration with the Sox.

He could also be hiding an injury that could be more severe than is realized. This seems unlikely but Dye certainly has a history of injuries.

jabrch
07-30-2007, 03:58 PM
I would rather take two viable prospects for Dye than roll the dice on the likes of Aaron Poreda or Kyle McCulloch.

I have no problem with those guys. If you have seen either of them pitch, I'm not sure why you would either. Poreda has torn up GF so far. Kyle has been strong (with a few bad outings) in WS. I know some geniuses out there bash these guys as "signable" but to me, that's a good thing to have effective guys pitching here. I think the bad draft picks are guys you have to pay 2+mm to sign, and who are bust outs. August 15th is right around the corner.

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 03:58 PM
He could also be hiding an injury that could be more severe than is realized. This seems unlikely but Dye certainly has a history of injuries.

I think he hurt his brain along with the other problems he's had this year. He was so mentally out of baseball for the last few months and it killed him. He literally lost upwards of $50MM this year.

I actually think if he is not traded today, he may re-sign with the Sox. A deal along the lines of 2/15 with a 3rd year option that vets based upon perofrmance may make sense for both sides.

jabrch
07-30-2007, 04:01 PM
he would be passing up guaranteed millions by accepting arbitration with the Sox.

He'd still be getting guarenteed millions...

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 04:01 PM
Unless KW wants the draft picks and doesn't want to bring him back. There is always the chance he would accept.
You can't get the picks if you don't offer arbitration, so KW can't have it both ways where he gets the pick and doesn't take the risk of him accepting arb. That said, if he continued hitting in the 2d half, I don't see him accepting it. If nothing else, he'd get a 2-3 year deal at the same salary as a 1-yr arb deal.

People are far more familiar with the salaries around here than I am, but my guess would be that Kenny has that corner outfield position slotted for a younger lower paid option and doesn't want to be stuck in a situation where he's committed 7-8+ Million to it through arbitration. I think the key idea here is either they will trade him at the deadline, or give him an extension. I don't see it getting to the point where we would get picks (FA + arbitration). Lord knows I've been wrong before, but thats how the tea leaves look to me right now...
Kenny needs to fill 2-3 OF slots (depending on whether or not Owens is a keeper in one of them). He's got Sweeney (unproven), Anderson (apparently hated by the manager and also unproven), and Terrero/Mackowiak/Ozuna (4th OF types at best). Or you can go with Scotty Groinsednik or Darin Anklestad (who just strained his neck while recovering from the ankle he reaggravated in his first half-inning back).

So basically Kenny has to figure on getting at least one OF from outside, which means paying for it. No chance even Rowand comes cheaper than $8-9M that you'll be paying Dye on a 1-year deal.

jabrch
07-30-2007, 04:02 PM
Unless KW wants the draft picks and doesn't want to bring him back. There is always the chance he would accept.

You don't get draft picks if you don't offer him arbitration.

itsnotrequired
07-30-2007, 04:03 PM
You don't get draft picks if you don't offer him arbitration.

Bah, I meant it the other way around.

:redface:

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 04:04 PM
He'd still be getting guarenteed millions...

But he'd be taking, say, $8MM in arbitration versus $15MM+ if he declines and becomes a free agent. So if he accepted arbitration, he is taking a risk that he would return to form next year and cash in big time then. If he has another lousy/injured year, he just lost himself many millions by accepting arbitration.

Randar68
07-30-2007, 05:53 PM
But he'd be taking, say, $8MM in arbitration versus $15MM+ if he declines and becomes a free agent. So if he accepted arbitration, he is taking a risk that he would return to form next year and cash in big time then. If he has another lousy/injured year, he just lost himself many millions by accepting arbitration.

Yep, the Sox will definitely offer arbitration and he will decline. Both sides would be stupid if it didn't go down like that. Dye won't make $15m, but $12m sounds like a likely amount. Won't get that in arbitration and wouldn't get the long term deal, whish is the biggest reason why he should turn down arbitration.

He would be a Type A FA and the Sox would get a supplemental pick at the least, if not 2.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 06:02 PM
I think Dye gets less than 10 in the open market. Below par year overall plus health concerns plus declining defensive coverage skills (per what I've read) = less money.

Anyway, let's say we offer arb and he accepts a 1 year deal (hoping to have a giant year next year and cashing in then)....do we then offer him arb at the end of that 1 year and if he declines, we get picks? i.e. could we go through this again next year?

getonbckthr
07-30-2007, 06:05 PM
I'm curious to the RF market? CF is deep but what about RF?

ilsox7
07-30-2007, 06:08 PM
Yep, the Sox will definitely offer arbitration and he will decline. Both sides would be stupid if it didn't go down like that. Dye won't make $15m, but $12m sounds like a likely amount. Won't get that in arbitration and wouldn't get the long term deal, whish is the biggest reason why he should turn down arbitration.

He would be a Type A FA and the Sox would get a supplemental pick at the least, if not 2.

Just to clarify, when I said $15MM+ I meant over 2 years, not in a single year.

JB98
07-30-2007, 06:30 PM
I'm curious to the RF market? CF is deep but what about RF?

It's mediocre. That Japanese guy, Fukudome, is out there. Who knows how good he is?

Guys like Abreu and Jenkins could be on the market because their respective teams will likely decline options. Trot Nixon, Reggie Sanders, Eric Hinske, Shawn Green, a lot of average veterans like that will be available.

Lillian
07-30-2007, 07:16 PM
Do any of you really believe that K.W. would accept a trade like Wily Mo Pena, for Dye? I can't imagine that happening. I thought that Ozzie wanted more speed.

I like the idea of just holding on to him, and offering arbitration. What is our risk? If he takes a one year deal at the arbitration figure, fine. We would have our lone power bat in the outfield. If he declines, we would get a high round draft pick.

Having Crede back for one more year, and Dye in the outfield would eliminate the need to sign another F.A. All we would have to do is shore up the bullpen.

Who knows which of the pieces they will use to fill left and center, but there are plenty of choices, as long as we have Dye's power bat in left or right.
I like Fields in left, and Owens in center, batting lead off.
Sweeny could probably use another year at AAA.
Who knows what to expect from Pods and Erstad, with all of the injuries?

You know, it would only seem fair if we gave Dye a decent contract. We owe him, in a sense, for the great deal he signed for the last two years, and for honoring his word, and turning down better offers. Moreover, he has expressed interest in staying in Chicago.

JB98
07-30-2007, 07:31 PM
Do any of you really believe that K.W. would accept a trade like Wily Mo Pena, for Dye? I can't imagine that happening. I thought that Ozzie wanted more speed.

I like the idea of just holding on to him, and offering arbitration. What is our risk? If he takes a one year deal at the arbitration figure, fine. We would have our lone power bat in the outfield. If he declines, we would get a high round draft pick.

Having Crede back for one more year, and Dye in the outfield would eliminate the need to sign another F.A. All we would have to do is shore up the bullpen.

Who knows which of the pieces they will use to fill left and center, but there are plenty of choices, as long as we have Dye's power bat in left or right.
I like Fields in left, and Owens in center, batting lead off.
Sweeny could probably use another year at AAA.
Who knows what to expect from Pods and Erstad, with all of the injuries?

You know, it would only seem fair if we gave Dye a decent contract. We owe him, in a sense, for the great deal he signed for the last two years, and for honoring his word, and turning down better offers. Moreover, he has expressed interest in staying in Chicago.

I don't like Pena at all, but if KW can get a bullpen arm in the deal, he should do it. Dye for Pena straight up? No way.

GAsoxfan
07-30-2007, 07:35 PM
You know, it would only seem fair if we gave Dye a decent contract. We owe him, in a sense, for the great deal he signed for the last two years, and for honoring his word, and turning down better offers. Moreover, he has expressed interest in staying in Chicago.

The Sox don't owe Dye anything.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 07:44 PM
I don't like Pena at all, but if KW can get a bullpen arm in the deal, he should do it. Dye for Pena straight up? No way.
If you mean a legitimate pitching prospect, then, I guess (but a legit CF prospect or SS prosepct would be better). I really don't know why the Sox want Pena. To me, if he can hit 25 homers, he'd be a good bench bat - pinch hitter, play DH against lefties, some left field. I think the Sox have lacked a bench player like him, but the Sox seem to prefer utility players on the bench.

I'm surprised that more teams aren't in on this (maybe they are). All it will take is 2 B prospects - we paid that for Everett for goodness sakes.
Boston turned down Pena and a B, but they don't need him. Other teams do.

RockJock07
07-30-2007, 08:51 PM
This trade probably won't happen unless KW can pull something together tonight. Willy isn't what Kenny is after, he wants one of the two minor leaguers rumored to be involved in the deal.

With that said, Pena hasn't been given the chance to really prove himself in Cincy or Boston so If he comes along with this stud pitching prospect (I forget his name) I wouldn't mind.

Other then this, it doesn't look like anything is gonna happen with Jose or Juan.

JB98
07-30-2007, 08:54 PM
If you mean a legitimate pitching prospect, then, I guess (but a legit CF prospect or SS prosepct would be better). I really don't know why the Sox want Pena. To me, if he can hit 25 homers, he'd be a good bench bat - pinch hitter, play DH against lefties, some left field. I think the Sox have lacked a bench player like him, but the Sox seem to prefer utility players on the bench.

I'm surprised that more teams aren't in on this (maybe they are). All it will take is 2 B prospects - we paid that for Everett for goodness sakes.
Boston turned down Pena and a B, but they don't need him. Other teams do.

If we get somebody like Manny Delcarmen for Dye, it would be worth it. That's a solid bullpen arm.

I don't think we'll get a legit CF or SS prospect unless we deal Gar or Javy.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 09:01 PM
If we get somebody like Manny Delcarmen for Dye, it would be worth it. That's a solid bullpen arm.

I don't think we'll get a legit CF or SS prospect unless we deal Gar or Javy.

What do you mean by "solid bullpen arm"? Is he a young pitcher with a high ceiling? If so, fine. But if he's a guy who projects out as a middle reliever, ugh. Put good young pitchers in our pen and it will improve a lot.

Boston has a SS prospect, Lowrie. I'd rather have him. Actually, I'd rather Lowrie and a pitcher and the Red Sox can keep Pena. We're doing them a favor by taking him, so they should provide a stronger prospect.

JB98
07-30-2007, 09:11 PM
What do you mean by "solid bullpen arm"? Is he a young pitcher with a high ceiling? If so, fine. But if he's a guy who projects out as a middle reliever, ugh. Put good young pitchers in our pen and it will improve a lot.

Boston has a SS prospect, Lowrie. I'd rather have him. Actually, I'd rather Lowrie and a pitcher and the Red Sox can keep Pena. We're doing them a favor by taking him, so they should provide a stronger prospect.

Delcarmen is 25 years old. He's appeared in 18 games for Boston this season. No record, one save, 20 IP with 20 Ks and a 2.70 ERA. I think he's a guy you can use with a lead in the late innings. And he's right-handed. Aside from Jenks, our right-handed relief is crap.

ndgt10
07-30-2007, 09:47 PM
Delcarmen is 25 years old. He's appeared in 18 games for Boston this season. No record, one save, 20 IP with 20 Ks and a 2.70 ERA. I think he's a guy you can use with a lead in the late innings. And he's right-handed. Aside from Jenks, our right-handed relief is crap.
No way the Redsox give him up. I'm pretty sure he's there set up man and, as you can see from his numbers, has done a very good job this year and has been a key to their success.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2007, 09:51 PM
Delcarmen is 25 years old. He's appeared in 18 games for Boston this season. No record, one save, 20 IP with 20 Ks and a 2.70 ERA. I think he's a guy you can use with a lead in the late innings. And he's right-handed. Aside from Jenks, our right-handed relief is crap.

Delcarmen is nothing special. 25 years old, only 82.3 innings in the bigs, with a 1.46 WHIP and a 4.26 ERA. He's been overhyped by the Red Sox propaganda machine.

JB98
07-30-2007, 09:55 PM
Delcarmen is nothing special. 25 years old, only 82.3 innings in the bigs, with a 1.46 WHIP and a 4.26 ERA. He's been overhyped by the Red Sox propaganda machine.

I disagree. I've seen him pitch, and I like his stuff.

JB98
07-30-2007, 09:56 PM
No way the Redsox give him up. I'm pretty sure he's there set up man and, as you can see from his numbers, has done a very good job this year and has been a key to their success.

The Japanese lefty, whose name escapes me, is their primary setup guy.

I agree that Boston won't give him up. Hence, they aren't getting Dye. I wouldn't trade JD for Wily Mo Pena. I'd rather have draft picks than Mr. Strikeout.

If I'm KW, I insist on a pitcher, or the shorstop that Tragg brought up. Otherwise, no deal.

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 09:59 PM
I got a email from a friend in Boston he says that WEEI reports that the Dye trade might be back on

That Lowrie and Pena will be heading to the Sox for JD has anyone else heard this report

JB98
07-30-2007, 10:04 PM
I got a email from a friend in Boston he says that WEEI reports that the Dye trade might be back on

That Lowrie and Pena will be heading to the Sox for JD has anyone else heard this report

Yeah, I've heard that speculation. There has to be another piece besides Pena. If Dye is the bait for us to fetch a young SS, then great.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 10:07 PM
I got a email from a friend in Boston he says that WEEI reports that the Dye trade might be back on

That Lowrie and Pena will be heading to the Sox for JD has anyone else heard this report

aww and I was just getting used to the idea of seeing Erick Aybar playing short for the WS in 2008. Well as long as it's not Uribe.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Philly just had a couple of OFs nicked up.
Hang tough, Kenny: get the pitcher and the SS...tell 'em Philly's calling (and if Philly calls, don't answer, their system must be near spent)

I have a feeling Kenny's going to give us some action over the next 20 hours.

oeo
07-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Yeah, I've heard that speculation. There has to be another piece besides Pena. If Dye is the bait for us to fetch a young SS, then great.

The only problem with Lowrie...is he ready to play in the big leagues yet? He just got called up to AAA a few days ago. Apparently he's a decent defender, but has a lot of errant throws. If we get him, we may have two guys that should both be playing 2B in Richar and Lowrie.

It definitely looks like Dye has played his last game in a Sox uni, though.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 10:10 PM
The only problem with Lowrie...is he ready to play in the big leagues yet? He just got called up to AAA a few days ago. Apparently he's a decent defender, but has a lot of errant throws. If we get him, we may have two guys that should both be playing 2B in Richar and Lowrie.

Yeah I read the same thing, that's what makes me hesitant with the deal.

JermaineDye05
07-30-2007, 10:11 PM
Philly just had a couple of OFs nicked up.
Hang tough, Kenny: get the pitcher and the SS...tell 'em Philly's calling (and if Philly calls, don't answer, their system must be near spent)

I have a feeling Kenny's going to give us some action over the next 20 hours.

Jimmy Rollins?!?!?!

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 10:13 PM
Scouting Report: Lowrie is an intelligent shortstop with average to below average range and and a decent glove. His arm is strong but he needs to work on his throwing accuracy. May be moved to 2B, but his strong work ethic is increasing the chances he could stick at SS. Above average speed on the basepaths. Has previously demonstrated good power for a middle infielder. Hits equally from both sides of the plate. Outstanding plate discipline, his best attribute may be his ability for good at bats. Fundamental and athletic.

JB98
07-30-2007, 10:24 PM
The only problem with Lowrie...is he ready to play in the big leagues yet? He just got called up to AAA a few days ago. Apparently he's a decent defender, but has a lot of errant throws. If we get him, we may have two guys that should both be playing 2B in Richar and Lowrie.

It definitely looks like Dye has played his last game in a Sox uni, though.

I wouldn't take that to the bank. Dye has a limited no-trade clause. He would have to agree to a deal to Boston. Moments ago, I learned that Dye's representatives have not yet been contacted about a deal to Boston.

That doesn't mean he won't get dealt, of course. The Sox are also making overtures to see what it would take to extend Dye.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2007, 10:30 PM
The Sox are also making overtures to see what it would take to extend Dye.

If they can't get good value for him in trade, then they should just extend him at a reasonable price to play LEFT FIELD.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 10:30 PM
Scouting Report: Lowrie is an intelligent shortstop with average to below average range and and a decent glove. His arm is strong but he needs to work on his throwing accuracy. May be moved to 2B, but his strong work ethic is increasing the chances he could stick at SS. Above average speed on the basepaths. Has previously demonstrated good power for a middle infielder. Hits equally from both sides of the plate. Outstanding plate discipline, his best attribute may be his ability for good at bats. Fundamental and athletic.
Sounds like an excellent offensive prospect for a middle infielder. But you gotta field and have some range at SS.

If they can't get good value for him in trade, then they should just extend him at a reasonable price to play LEFT FIELD.

That's a possibility, but that steps up the need for a leadoff hitting stud CF. We've used LF for lead-off and if Owens is a leadoff hitter, it's got to be in LF I would think.

oeo
07-30-2007, 10:31 PM
I wouldn't take that to the bank. Dye has a limited no-trade clause. He would have to agree to a deal to Boston. Moments ago, I learned that Dye's representatives have not yet been contacted about a deal to Boston.

That doesn't mean he won't get dealt, of course. The Sox are also making overtures to see what it would take to extend Dye.

I think he's going to be dealt somewhere, not necessarily Boston. I do think it will be Boston, though, and they will find the playing time for him. With Ortiz's injury problems, they can possibly put him on the DL, move Manny to DH, and play Dye everyday. They have a comfy lead in the East, and a weak schedule from here on out...they should be fine.

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 10:31 PM
If we do sign JD to a 3 yr deal he can be our DH in 09 when Thome leaves

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2007, 10:33 PM
But you gotta field and have some range at SS.

Indeed. Give me a gold glove calber defensive shortstop with range and an arm who hits .220 over the defensive butcher who hits .280 with power any day.

JB98
07-30-2007, 10:33 PM
If they can't get good value for him in trade, then they should just extend him at a reasonable price to play LEFT FIELD.

And possibly DH him against left-handed pitching. We still need to get better against lefties, although Josh Fields is one guy who helps that cause. He's been killing lefties.

oeo
07-30-2007, 10:36 PM
Indeed. Give me a gold glove calber defensive shortstop with range and an arm who hits .220 over the defensive butcher who hits .280 with power any day.

We have that already, and I'm ready for change. Lowrie does not sound like a 'butcher,' he sounds like he's average. Make the routine plays, maybe a couple of good ones, but he's not going to be a Gold Glover. I can live with that, as long as he's not booting everything.

Another thing Lowrie has, is great plate discipline (something else we really need). In AA, he walked 7 more times (65 in 93 games) than he struck out.

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 10:40 PM
According to Levine it looks like Dye is not going to sign an extension and Mackowiak might be traded tomorrow as well

A. Cavatica
07-30-2007, 10:44 PM
Please let it be Lowrie...

JB98
07-30-2007, 10:45 PM
According to Levine it looks like Dye is not going to sign an extension and Mackowiak might be traded tomorrow as well

It wouldn't make sense for Dye to sign an extension now. Although I'm glad the Sox took the time to see what it would take.

Rockin Robin
07-30-2007, 10:50 PM
Wait, where would Mack go?:?:

Rockabilly
07-30-2007, 10:51 PM
Wait, where would Mack go?:?:


maybe to Philly

oeo
07-30-2007, 10:52 PM
Wait, where would Mack go?:?:

Maybe the Yankees (if they're buying)? :dunno: Or as someone else just mentioned, maybe Philly. I forgot they just lost two outfielders.

He can play the corners in the infield and outfield, and is a good left-handed bat off the bench. I'd like him to stay, actually. He's a valuable guy to have...if we could just get some healthy starters and he could be put into the role that's intended, it would be perfect.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 10:52 PM
Please let it be Lowrie...
A position prospect would be refreshing.

What would Mack bring? He's a decent hitter....easily our best bench hitter. The way we work our bench - all utility players - we might want to keep him as no one else can hit.

Frater Perdurabo
07-30-2007, 10:54 PM
With Victorino and Michael Bourn suffering injuries tonight, anyone think the Phils might be interested in Dye?

How about a package of Dye and Contreras to the Phillies for CF prospect Greg Golson?

JB98
07-30-2007, 10:55 PM
A position prospect would be refreshing.

What would Mack bring? He's a decent hitter....easily our best bench hitter. The way we work our bench - all utility players - we might want to keep him as no one else can hit.

I'd like to keep Mack, but I'm not sure the price is right. He makes a little more than he's worth. We traded a relief pitcher to get him. Maybe we can get a relief pitcher back.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 11:16 PM
I'd like to keep Mack, but I'm not sure the price is right. He makes a little more than he's worth. We traded a relief pitcher to get him. Maybe we can get a relief pitcher back.
We have a couple of those utility players making more than they're worth.

In the end re Dye for Pena and a prospect, do the Sox really see Pena as a player they want? It hasn't exactly been the MO to take players like him. So are we just getting a B prospect for Dye?

A. Cavatica
07-30-2007, 11:20 PM
We have a couple of those utility players making more than they're worth.

In the end re Dye for Pena and a prospect, do the Sox really see Pena as a player they want? It hasn't exactly been the MO to take players like him. So are we just getting a B prospect for Dye?

If the Sox get Pena and keep him, I'll have the same reaction I had when they got Floyd and kept him.

:thud:

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 11:20 PM
If they can't get good value for him in trade, then they should just extend him at a reasonable price to play LEFT FIELD.
Dye-Owens-Sweeney/Anderson is not a bad OF. Nice defensively and while short on power, not bad overall at the plate.

A. Cavatica
07-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Dye-Owens-Sweeney/Anderson is not a bad OF. Nice defensively and while short on power, not bad overall at the plate.

If that's the case, why are we not playing this outfield now?

oeo
07-30-2007, 11:35 PM
Dye-Owens-Sweeney/Anderson is not a bad OF. Nice defensively and while short on power, not bad overall at the plate.

If Anderson and Owens are both in our outfield next year, I'm going to puke. Neither one has shown any signs of consistently hitting in the big leagues. We may add Sweeney to that list, but he hasn't been up here long enough to tell.

I certainly hope the organization isn't as high on Owens and Anderson as most people here, or we're doomed.

Tragg
07-30-2007, 11:41 PM
If the Sox get Pena and keep him, I'll have the same reaction I had when they got Floyd and kept him.


Well, if we get him, what else are we going to do with him? Maybe the Sox are seriously interested in him...but if they are taking him to force a deal, we should pick the prospect and the Redsox should like it no matter who it is.

JB98
07-30-2007, 11:45 PM
We have a couple of those utility players making more than they're worth.

In the end re Dye for Pena and a prospect, do the Sox really see Pena as a player they want? It hasn't exactly been the MO to take players like him. So are we just getting a B prospect for Dye?

I've heard speculation tonight that the Sox would acquire Pena and flip him to another team.

You are right. Pena does not fit the mode of player that Ozzie and KW seem to like. They are asking for young outfielders with speed in a lot of these proposed scenarios. Pena is a slugger who Ks way too damn much, plain and simple.

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 11:49 PM
Well, if we get him, what else are we going to do with him? Maybe the Sox are seriously interested in him...but if they are taking him to force a deal, we should pick the prospect and the Redsox should like it no matter who it is.

i'm really interested to see what he'd be able to do with a full season at DH under his belt. obviously right now we cant give him that opportunity unless a thome deal is in the works which i doubt. unless in KW's eyes, pena is dye's replacement and hoping to strike lighting in a bottle like he did with JD when he signed him.

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 11:51 PM
If that's the case, why are we not playing this outfield now?

Simply put - because Ozzie doesn't know how to let young position players work through their struggles and/or has personal issues with Anderson.

That OF would be superior defensively (although I'd put Sweeney/Anderson in CF, Owens in LF, and leave Dye in RF). The obviously if Owens and Anderson/Sweeney slump they'd have problems, but based on Brian's rookie year and the way he played his way out of the slump prior to getting inconsistent time from Ozzie I think he'd hit .270+ if given a fulltime job.

But since Ozzie's not likely to change his stance anytime soon, maybe you'r right. That said, unless the Sox are going to spend a bunch more money or trade their pitching (not Jose), they're going to have to go with 2 of the 3 youngsters I mentioned and 1 veteran OF signed on the market.

Flight #24
07-30-2007, 11:52 PM
You are right. Pena does not fit the mode of player that Ozzie and KW seem to like. They are asking for young outfielders with speed in a lot of these proposed scenarios. Pena is a slugger who Ks way too damn much, plain and simple.

I think they're asking for CFs and/or leadoff guys, which necessitates speed moreso than asking for speedy OFs. With Richar up (if he can stick), that lessens the need for speed at more than one OF slot.

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 11:52 PM
I've heard speculation tonight that the Sox would acquire Pena and flip him to another team.

You are right. Pena does not fit the mode of player that Ozzie and KW seem to like. They are asking for young outfielders with speed in a lot of these proposed scenarios. Pena is a slugger who Ks way too damn much, plain and simple.

can i ask where u heard this? from friends? media outlets? it wouldnt make much sense to try to flip him somewhere else when it appears that no teams want him to begin with....

JB98
07-30-2007, 11:54 PM
can i ask where u heard this? from friends? media outlets? it wouldnt make much sense to try to flip him somewhere else when it appears that no teams want him to begin with....

I work in the media, so I hear things from reporters that cover the Sox.

JB98
07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Simply put - because Ozzie doesn't know how to let young position players work through their struggles and/or has personal issues with Anderson.

That OF would be superior defensively (although I'd put Sweeney/Anderson in CF, Owens in LF, and leave Dye in RF). The obviously if Owens and Anderson/Sweeney slump they'd have problems, but based on Brian's rookie year and the way he played his way out of the slump prior to getting inconsistent time from Ozzie I think he'd hit .270+ if given a fulltime job.

But since Ozzie's not likely to change his stance anytime soon, maybe you'r right. That said, unless the Sox are going to spend a bunch more money or trade their pitching (not Jose), they're going to have to go with 2 of the 3 youngsters I mentioned and 1 veteran OF signed on the market.

Ozzie is letting Fields and Owens work through the ups and downs, no?

oeo
07-30-2007, 11:56 PM
can i ask where u heard this? from friends? media outlets? it wouldnt make much sense to try to flip him somewhere else when it appears that no teams want him to begin with....

Dave van Dyck mentioned this after the original trade talks stalled earlier.

oeo
07-30-2007, 11:57 PM
Ozzie is letting Fields and Owens work through the ups and downs, no?

Ozzie isn't the problem...Brian Anderson sucks and people just can't get over that fact.

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 11:57 PM
I work in the media, so I hear things from reporters that cover the Sox.

that would truly be interesting to take someone else's trash and turn it into gold and get something of value. rock and roll, KW. only 16 hrs left...

upperdeckusc
07-30-2007, 11:58 PM
Dave van Dyck mentioned this after the original trade talks stalled earlier.

any mention of other possible suitors for WMP?

Tragg
07-30-2007, 11:58 PM
I've heard speculation tonight that the Sox would acquire Pena and flip him to another team.

You are right. Pena does not fit the mode of player that Ozzie and KW seem to like. They are asking for young outfielders with speed in a lot of these proposed scenarios. Pena is a slugger who Ks way too damn much, plain and simple.
Then why not do a 3 way?

I can see the value in a right handed slugger type; DH against lefties (Thome is absolutely elite against righties), play a day a week in the field, pinch hit...it's an element of the bench that's been sorely lacking. I don't know that Pena is the man for that job, however; and Kenny and Ozzie have never had the inclination to go that route anyway.

As for Ozzie and young players, Kenny needs a sit down with Ozzie if Ozzie won't play them. My goodness, at this point in the season, surely Ozzie can see that there's no point in keeping Erstad, Pods, Cintron et al. as starters or regular players.

oeo
07-30-2007, 11:59 PM
any mention of other possible suitors for WMP?

Nope, this is what he said (and this was after that originally rumored WMP and Masterson/Delcarmen deal):
Had the deal gone through, it was thought the White Sox might look to trade Pena.

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/dye-to-boston.html

But...that three team deal that was rumored, had the Brewers as the third team; so that might be a possibility. Not sure what they would want in WMP, though. :dunno:

upperdeckusc
07-31-2007, 12:02 AM
JB98....

even though its the wrong thread to talk about it, since you have some connections, any rumblings about getting contreras out of town or any teams semi-interested in taking him off our hands?

JB98
07-31-2007, 12:03 AM
Then why not do a 3 way?

I can see the value in a right handed slugger type; DH against lefties (Thome is absolutely elite against righties), play a day a week in the field, pinch hit...it's an element of the bench that's been sorely lacking. I don't know that Pena is the man for that job, however; and Kenny and Ozzie have never had the inclination to go that route anyway.

As for Ozzie and young players, Kenny needs a sit down with Ozzie if Ozzie won't play them. My goodness, at this point in the season, surely Ozzie can see that there's no point in keeping Erstad, Pods, Cintron et al. as starters or regular players.

Well, Fields and Owens and Richar are all playing, and they'll continue to play. As well they should. I don't think KW needs to tell Ozzie that. If Sweeney comes up, he'll play.

People have to understand that circumstances have changed since Anderson was on the club. We are no longer in win-now mode.

I don't think Owens in the leadoff spot gives the Sox the best chance to win. Pods does. But Owens is still getting the nod because the organization needs to find out whether he can do it. Rightfully so.

JB98
07-31-2007, 12:04 AM
JB98....

even though its the wrong thread to talk about it, since you have some connections, any rumblings about getting contreras out of town or any teams semi-interested in taking him off our hands?

No. Every piece of copy I've read tonight is about JD. I've got nothing about Contreras right now.

Flight #24
07-31-2007, 12:57 AM
Ozzie is letting Fields and Owens work through the ups and downs, no?

Owens: first 53ABs batted .170 (sent down). Next 93 ABs batted .280
Fields: first 78ABs batted .218 (Ozzie comments about how he may sit him for Cintron). Next 94ABs batted .277

Sweeney: first 45ABs batted .209. Sent down.
Anderson: first 160ABs batted .174. Next 200 ABs, batted .270.

Then, instead of being given kudos for battling through and improving, Anderson was called out by the manager and given ~70% of the ABs afforded to Erstad in ST (makes perfect sense - the veteran obviously needed more time to get ready than the youngster). Still, he batted .292 in ST to Erstad's .301 while providing a superior defensive alternative. All of which yielded him a nice warm seat on the bench. After barely playing and being generally taken to task by Ozzie, he was sent down, struggled, and got hurt.

With Owens & Fields, Ozzie didn't really have even bad alternatives, and their struggles were shorter. As for Anderson, he had a longer adjustment period, but seemed to pull out of it in the 2d half of last year. And after batting well in July/August, he stopped starting every day and slumped (no connection between that lack of confidence from the manager and the performance of a young player, I'm sure). And Ozzie didn't even give him a chance this year once Erstad was on board.

soxstarter
07-31-2007, 08:55 AM
A rumor was thrown out by Channel 5 (Dick Johnson/Ellie Piehong) this morning that Dye might be traded to the Cubs. Anyone else heard this?

MarySwiss
07-31-2007, 08:59 AM
I just heard "Dye's going to the Red Sox" on Mike and Mike. Either way, yecchhh!

Maybe he's not going anywhere. That'd be nice.

peelwonder
07-31-2007, 09:01 AM
What's the Score Dude.....

RedHeadPaleHoser
07-31-2007, 09:03 AM
A rumor was thrown out by Channel 5 (Dick Johnson/Ellie Piehong) this morning that Dye might be traded to the Cubs. Anyone else heard this?

We'll take Zambrano.

lostfan
07-31-2007, 09:12 AM
We'll take Zambrano.
lol

PatK
07-31-2007, 09:46 AM
Every trade scenario I've heard Dye going to the Cubs for is a lose-lose situation for the Sox.

I don't take any validity in those rumors. The things the Cubs have that we'd want they aren't going to give up.

Gammons Peter
07-31-2007, 10:03 AM
A rumor was thrown out by Channel 5 (Dick Johnson/Ellie Piehong) this morning that Dye might be traded to the Cubs. Anyone else heard this?

Doesnt she pronounce it Ellie Pea-Aye Hong:cool:

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 10:13 AM
I'm sure if the teleprompter had said "Dye going to the moon" they would have read it with the same conviction...

Fred Manrique
07-31-2007, 10:30 AM
So nothing new on the Dye trade in the last hour or two, right?

NoNeckEra
07-31-2007, 10:33 AM
I'm sure if the teleprompter had said "Dye going to the moon" they would have read it with the same conviction...
If Ralph Kramden was the Sox' GM, he WOULD be going to the moon!

WSox597
07-31-2007, 10:34 AM
FWIW, Jim Rose on ABC7 last night was talking about a 2 year extension for Jermaine.

Boy, I wish these tv personalities would get their stories straight. They know how we hang on their every word.

spawn
07-31-2007, 10:38 AM
FWIW, Jim Rose on ABC7 last night was talking about a 2 year extension for Jermaine.

Boy, I wish these tv personalities would get their stories straight. They know how we hang on their every word.
I heard that this morning on ESPN radio. The Red Sox thought KW was asking too much for JD, so they said thanks but no thanks. Since that deal is dead, the Sox are now working on a contract extension. I'm probably in the minority, but I hope this is the case. I don't want to see JD go. He started slow, but he was playing on one leg for most of the first half of the season. I think he still has something left in the tank.

Chicken Dinner
07-31-2007, 10:42 AM
After last night the Phillies are looking for a right fielder. :o: We all know how Kenny and Pat like to trade with each other.

balke
07-31-2007, 10:49 AM
After last night the Phillies are looking for a right fielder. :o: We all know how Kenny and Pat like to trade with each other.

The Phillies don't have a clear cut answer right now as to how long they are out. Bourn just sprained his ankle, so that should be like 2 weeks tops. Victorino is the real question. If he is out for sure, they might need to pull the trigger quick.

jabrch
07-31-2007, 10:55 AM
I think they only things they have that I'd want for him is either Pie or one of their top two or three pitchers (Veal, Pawelek, Gallagher) and Hendry has proven that he doesn't trade those type of players.

soxinem1
07-31-2007, 11:07 AM
I think Dye will rebound and have some solid numbers for the next few years. In fact, he's already showing that he may be putting it together a bit.

DelCarmen is a good arm, but Pena is a K machine who has demonstrated that he has difficulty with RHP.

Whenever I've watched him, it looks like good fastballs and low and away curves eat him alive.

If we want a guy with a slider-speed bat, we can get Craig Monroe from DET.

Plus, where is he going to play, RF? yeah, right. This guy is a platoon DH at best.

INSox56
07-31-2007, 11:16 AM
I wonder what's on KW's big board if the Levine rumor is true and we're offering Dye a 2-3 year deal...?

rdwj
07-31-2007, 11:21 AM
I'm probably in the minority, but I hope this is the case. I don't want to see JD go. He started slow, but he was playing on one leg for most of the first half of the season. I think he still has something left in the tank.

I'm with you. We have PLENTY of holes to fill next year without worrying about Dye. I think he still has value and could easily transition into a DH when he can no longer play the field.

esbrechtel
07-31-2007, 11:25 AM
I'm with you. We have PLENTY of holes to fill next year without worrying about Dye. I think he still has value and could easily transition into a DH when he can no longer play the field.
I'd be on board if the price is right...

1917
07-31-2007, 11:27 AM
I wonder what's on KW's big board if the Levine rumor is true and we're offering Dye a 2-3 year deal...?

You lost me at Levine

oeo
07-31-2007, 11:27 AM
I'm with you. We have PLENTY of holes to fill next year without worrying about Dye. I think he still has value and could easily transition into a DH when he can no longer play the field.

Dye can fill a couple of holes, if he's traded. If this Red Sox deal goes through, whether we get Delcarmen or Lowrie, I'll be very happy.

California Sox
07-31-2007, 11:31 AM
On ESPN.com Stark is reporting the last offer the Red Sox made is WMP and Craig Hansen for Dye AND a minor leaguer. I wouldn't take WMP straight up for Luis Terrero. Hansen's stuff has fallen and it can't get up. I would rather flat release Dye for nothing than make this deal. At least we would keep the minor leaguer.

I think we should resign Dye or offer him arbitration. He looks like himself at the plate again and we don't have three better alternatives than him in the outfield right now.

champagne030
07-31-2007, 11:39 AM
On ESPN.com Stark is reporting the last offer the Red Sox made is WMP and Craig Hansen for Dye AND a minor leaguer. I wouldn't take WMP straight up for Luis Terrero. Hansen's stuff has fallen and it can't get up. I would rather flat release Dye for nothing than make this deal. At least we would keep the minor leaguer.

The Sox should tell the Sawx and their affiliate, ESPN to go **** themselves.

I think we should resign Dye or offer him arbitration. He looks like himself at the plate again and we don't have three better alternatives than him in the outfield right now.

Seeing what is being offered for JD, this seems like the best course of action.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 11:44 AM
On ESPN.com Stark is reporting the last offer the Red Sox made is WMP and Craig Hansen for Dye AND a minor leaguer. .
That's a BS deal.
It's hard to believe there's so little interest in him.

oeo
07-31-2007, 11:45 AM
That's a BS deal.
It's hard to believe there's so little interest in him.

I don't know that it's lack of interest, but instead people unwilling to pay up the ass for anything. It seems like teams are more willing to give up top prospects for relief help than anything else (even starting pitching).

Theo has a choice, though. He can get Dye and have insurance in case Ortiz goes down for an extended amount of time, or he can be screwed if that happens.

Jjav829
07-31-2007, 11:50 AM
I wonder how hard of a late charge the Angels might make for Dye. They've lost out on Teixeira. News today has Juan Rivera far behind schedule in his recovery, now possibly pushing his return into September. I hope they make a late run at Dye. Something package with Erick Aybar would be nice.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 11:51 AM
I. It seems like teams are more willing to give up top prospects for relief help than anything else (even starting pitching).
For that reason (and because we have so few) I wonder why Williams isn't going after position prospects instead of pitchers.

Put Thornton on the block, if teams are paying a premium for lefty relievers.

I'm glad Williams isnt' caving. Oh and tell boy genius Theo to, well, go jump in the boston harbor.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 11:54 AM
I think they only things they have that I'd want for him is either Pie or one of their top two or three pitchers (Veal, Pawelek, Gallagher) and Hendry has proven that he doesn't trade those type of players.
What? You don't want Matt "what's a cutoff man" Murton?

Flight #24
07-31-2007, 11:55 AM
Pena's worthless. Hansen's a B to C tier guy now. The only way you take a deal like that is if your'e not going to offer JD arbitration after the season (so you get nothing if you keep him). But if you're even discussing an extension with him, then why wouldn't you go to arb? Following this year what would he max out at - 1yr / $10M? I can't believe that that's enough of a killer for the Sox to risk losing out on the comp picks. Plus, you can always trade him after signing him or during the season.

Regardless, the rumored BoSox deal is worthless, so they can go **** themselves and fade out in the postseason behind JD Drew and a hobbled Ortiz.

Sockinchisox
07-31-2007, 11:55 AM
I wonder how hard of a late charge the Angels might make for Dye. They've lost out on Teixeira. News today has Juan Rivera far behind schedule in his recovery, now possibly pushing his return into September. I hope they make a late run at Dye. Something package with Erick Aybar would be nice.


At this point Dye for Aybar straight up would be a wonderful deal.

ode to veeck
07-31-2007, 11:56 AM
I wonder how hard of a late charge the Angels might make for Dye. They've lost out on Teixeira. News today has Juan Rivera far behind schedule in his recovery, now possibly pushing his return into September. I hope they make a late run at Dye. Something package with Erick Aybar would be nice.

some reports angels and dbacks still in the mix, but we'll know for sure by 4 today as the deadline looms

oeo
07-31-2007, 12:24 PM
Dye still has not even been asked to waive his NTC.

I just spoke with Jermaine Dye's agent, Robert Bry. He said he has not had any contact with anyone in the last 72 hours about whether Dye would waive his no-trade clause to come to Boston.http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/07/high_noonstill.html

EDIT: Someone just posted on a Boston forum that ESPN Radio says 'a deal is all but done' that would bring WMP and Manny Delcarmen to the Sox.

MrX
07-31-2007, 12:33 PM
EDIT: Someone just posted on a Boston forum that ESPN Radio says 'a deal is all but done' that would bring WMP and Manny Delcarmen to the Sox.
I post on another board that has a bunch of Red Sox fans and they can't believe that Theo would be getting Dye for so little. They'd trade WMP for a some pine tar and they're not upset about Delcarmen

palehozenychicty
07-31-2007, 12:38 PM
WMP is a crappy baseball player. I'd be pissed if that's the best we could do for Dye. I'd rather hold onto him, honestly. Delcarmen would be nice, but still.

goon
07-31-2007, 12:49 PM
With the way Dye has played at US Cellular Field, it may be wise to consider signing him to extension rather than gambling on WMP's talent and youth, hoping that he becomes a more consistent producer. As for Delcarmen, I'd be happy to get him, but it's not like him coming to Chicago secures the bullpen.

INSox56
07-31-2007, 01:05 PM
Hmm, I can somewhat see why we'd be ok with taking WMP. Splits: .295 vs Left, .177 vs Right.

thedudeabides
07-31-2007, 01:06 PM
Dye still has not even been asked to waive his NTC.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/07/high_noonstill.html

EDIT: Someone just posted on a Boston forum that ESPN Radio says 'a deal is all but done' that would bring WMP and Manny Delcarmen to the Sox.

ESPN News is saying it is a done deal, but they're using Toni Ginetti's article in the Sun Times today as the source. Basically, nothing new.

russ99
07-31-2007, 01:08 PM
WMP is a crappy baseball player. I'd be pissed if that's the best we could do for Dye. I'd rather hold onto him, honestly. Delcarmen would be nice, but still.

And if this deal does go through, I can see Kenny gushing about his "tools" and "potential".

Sounds to be at worst Pena will be another Uribe at the plate, at best a Sammy Sosa clone. I know Dye's a FA, but is this the best Kenny can do?

champagne030
07-31-2007, 01:08 PM
With the way Dye has played at US Cellular Field, it may be wise to consider signing him to extension rather than gambling on WMP's talent and youth, hoping that he becomes a more consistent producer. As for Delcarmen, I'd be happy to get him, but it's not like him coming to Chicago secures the bullpen.

You got that right. He reminds me of a few people....hmmm, who on our team threw hard, but had control issues??? Maybe for Mack, but not Dye. Tell the Sawx to scratch and offer abritration after the season if he won't sign a club friendly extension.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
And if this deal does go through, I can see Kenny gushing about his "tools" and "potential".

Sounds to be at worst Pena will be another Uribe at the plate, at best a Sammy Sosa clone. I know Dye's a FA, but is this the best Kenny can do?

Well, apparently the Red Sox are the only team in serious discussions, so I'd say yes.

California Sox
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Hmm, I can somewhat see why we'd be ok with taking WMP. Splits: .295 vs Left, .177 vs Right.

Why would that make it okay? Sure, we struggle against LHP, but when has a fourth outfielder who plays only against lefties ever been considered valuable? Didn't Terrero just get sent down because there was no room for that kind of player on the roster?

WMP is a player the Red Sox simply want to get rid of. If we take him, we're fools.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 01:10 PM
Why would that make it okay? Sure, we struggle against LHP, but when has a fourth outfielder who plays only against lefties ever been considered valuable? Didn't Terrero just get sent down because there was no room for that kind of player on the roster?

WMP is a player the Red Sox simply want to get rid of. If we take him, we're fools.

I think that was sarcasm.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 01:11 PM
ESPN News is saying it is a done deal, but they're using Toni Ginetti's article in the Sun Times today as the source. Basically, nothing new.
This is essentially Dye for a middle reliever. What in the world is the obsession with ceiling middle relivers? How about a SS or CF prospect. And this time of year is always the PEAK price for middle relievers, so why in the world are we shopping for one? It's ridiculous.

Tell Theo to shove it and keep the draft picks.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:12 PM
You got that right. He reminds me of a few people....hmmm, who on our team threw hard, but had control issues??? Maybe for Mack, but not Dye. Tell the Sawx to scratch and offer abritration after the season if he won't sign a club friendly extension.

Except Delcarmen looks like he's gotten over his control problems.

INSox56
07-31-2007, 01:17 PM
And if this deal does go through, I can see Kenny gushing about his "tools" and "potential".

Sounds to be at worst Pena will be another Uribe at the plate, at best a Sammy Sosa clone. I know Dye's a FA, but is this the best Kenny can do?Evidently. Too bad our best chips have either sucked or decided against fixing their backs in the offseason or got re signed.

INSox56
07-31-2007, 01:21 PM
I think that was sarcasm.Oh come on, you don't think Walk can fix his swing???

champagne030
07-31-2007, 01:22 PM
Except Delcarmen looks like he's gotten over his control problems.

I'd like to see more than a 20 inning stretch of good pitching before I disregard his previous 470. He's got a great, rebuilt arm who still had control issues in AAA this season. I'll pass and take the compensation picks or re-sign him to a decent deal.

rowand33
07-31-2007, 01:27 PM
And if this deal does go through, I can see Kenny gushing about his "tools" and "potential".

Sounds to be at worst Pena will be another Uribe at the plate, at best a Sammy Sosa clone. I know Dye's a FA, but is this the best Kenny can do?

I think Pena would be very Adam Dunn like for the Sox.

low average, lots of strikeouts, high OBP, lots of homers, lots of RBIs.

I'd take it if he was paired with a better pitcher than Declarman (Jon Lester?).

I'd rather resign Dye to a 2 year deal.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:29 PM
I'd take it if he was paired with a better pitcher than Declarman (Jon Lester?).

I'd rather resign Dye to a 2 year deal.

The Red Sox will not part with Lester, Buchholz, or Ellsbury (I think you could also add Masterson to that list).

BeviBall!
07-31-2007, 01:31 PM
I'd rather resign Dye to a 2 year deal.

If this is the best Kenny can get than absolutely.

PorkChopExpress
07-31-2007, 01:37 PM
I think some people here are overvaluing Dye. Don't forget he is a rental, who may be re-signed or may be worth two draft picks. He has had a horrible stretch of baseball to start this year based in part on an injury. He is 33, so if he is suffering injuries now, he can be expected to suffer them again as he ages. He had a career year last year, but is more likely to put up numbers like he did in '05 (and I realize they weren't bad) if even those as he gets older and is removed from the Cell.

Further, who is to say KW is not picking up WMP and DelCarmen to immediately swap them for someone like Cordero, who is apparently available, and the Nat's are supposedly looking at WMP, but don't want an aging RF. Would we be OK with a Dye for Cordero trade? Let's just see how this all pans out.

goon
07-31-2007, 01:41 PM
I think some people here are overvaluing Dye. Don't forget he is a rental, who may be re-signed or may be worth two draft picks. He has had a horrible stretch of baseball to start this year based in part on an injury. He is 33, so if he is suffering injuries now, he can be expected to suffer them again as he ages. He had a career year last year, but is more likely to put up numbers like he did in '05 (and I realize they weren't bad) if even those as he gets older and is removed from the Cell.

Further, who is to say KW is not picking up WMP and DelCarmen to immediately swap them for someone like Cordero, who is apparently available, and the Nat's are supposedly looking at WMP, but don't want an aging RF. Would we be OK with a Dye for Cordero trade? Let's just see how this all pans out.

Awesome. Who's going to play right field again? Ryan Sweeney? Seems like a huge loss of power in the middle of that lineup.

Tragg
07-31-2007, 01:42 PM
I think some people here are overvaluing Dye. Don't forget he is a rental, who may be re-signed or may be worth two draft picks. He has had a horrible stretch of baseball to start this year based in part on an injury. He is 33, so if he is suffering injuries now, he can be expected to suffer them again as he ages. He had a career year last year, but is more likely to put up numbers like he did in '05 (and I realize they weren't bad) if even those as he gets older and is removed from the Cell.

The fact that he is a rental makes his age and the rest of that stuff pretty irrelevant...he just needs to last this year. He's a rental and a good one.

This is a bad time to shop for a middle reliever. We've got several top flight stud pitching prospects.
We have zero in terms of infield prospects and 1 outfield prospect, we're loading our lineup with utility ballplayers and we have the worst offense in the AL.

JermaineDye05
07-31-2007, 01:42 PM
FWIW Peter Gammons is on BBTN saying if the deal goes down Delcarmen will not be going and that he believes Craig Hansen will be going.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:45 PM
FWIW Peter Gammons is on BBTN saying if the deal goes down Delcarmen will not be going and that he believes Craig Hansen will be going.

And his reasoning was because Delcarmen is a big part of their bullpen (he didn't have a source saying this). In other words, his Red Sox fandom is coming out. Well, Peter, you're going to have to give up some major league talent if you want Dye. Hansen has been garbage in AAA this year.

They don't call him Boston Gammons for nothin'.

PorkChopExpress
07-31-2007, 01:46 PM
Awesome. Who's going to play right field again? Ryan Sweeney? Seems like a huge loss of power in the middle of that lineup.

For this year, probably Sweeney. You still have power with Konerko and Thome. While it's nice you don't need three 30-40 HR guys in the middle of your lineup. Two is good, especially if they put runs up and you have a bullpen that won't immediately give them back. Next year, there are OF free agents to be had, or someone within the organization steps up. Fields has shown a little power, Crede may be back, but I think pitching is more imporatant than HR's.

rdivaldi
07-31-2007, 01:47 PM
I think Pena would be very Adam Dunn like for the Sox.

low average, lots of strikeouts, high OBP, lots of homers, lots of RBIs.

I'd take it if he was paired with a better pitcher than Declarman (Jon Lester?).

I'd rather resign Dye to a 2 year deal.


The guy has never even walked 40 times in a season. He's never going to be a high OBP player.

MrX
07-31-2007, 01:47 PM
FWIW Peter Gammons is on BBTN saying if the deal goes down Delcarmen will not be going and that he believes Craig Hansen will be going.
Woohoo! Another power arm with a 10 cent head.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:49 PM
Woohoo! Another power arm with a 10 cent head.

This was merely a Red Sox fan's speculation...take it for what it's worth.

soxinem1
07-31-2007, 01:50 PM
LAD just aquired Scott Proctor from NYY for Wilson Betemit.

You mean to tell me that we could not have offered Mackowiak for Proctor? ***!!

If a scrub like Betemit can get that good of an arm, how is it that Dye and/or Mackowiak cannot do the same.

I say the best way to do this is to sign JD to an extension, make him happy, and concentrate the rest of the efforts in getting real INF and relief help, not make a hole to add on to the lsit of ones that already exist.

Flight #24
07-31-2007, 01:52 PM
The only scary thing is the prospect that Kenny's actually considering this Pena+Hansen deal, which indicates to me that he might not be thinking of offering arbitration (because 2 picks > Pena+Hansen).

Outside of the ESPN BS, anyone hearing any rumors that that woudl be the case. I wouldn't make an iots of sense to me, but I've seen it in 2-3 different places from ESPN's idiots.

oeo
07-31-2007, 01:52 PM
LAD just aquired Scott Proctor from NYY for Wilson Betemit.

You mean to tell me that we could not have offered Mackowiak for Proctor? ***!!

If a scrub like Betemit can get that good of an arm, how is it that Dye and/or Mackowiak cannot do the same.

I say the best way to do this is to sign JD to an extension, make him happy, and concentrate the rest of the efforts in getting real INF and relief help, not make a hole to add on to the lsit of ones that already exist.

Uhm, the Yankees have been after Betemit for a LONG time.

Why do people around here always think that other teams have interest in our guys? How do you know anyone even wants Mackowiak? How do you know the Sox want to get rid of him?

Tragg
07-31-2007, 01:57 PM
Outside of the ESPN BS, anyone hearing any rumors that that woudl be the case. I wouldn't make an iots of sense to me, but I've seen it in 2-3 different places from ESPN's idiots.
I know that the Sox generally don't offer arbitration. I guess it's risky. I've read one of the reason that the offers are so low is that they don't think we'll offer arbitration, so we'll eventually cave.
Anyway, I hope we reject the offer. Even if we don't offer arb,, their offer isn't much better than nothing.
And getting snookered makes future traes more dificult.

Foulke You
07-31-2007, 01:59 PM
I'm lukewarm on WMP but I'd definitely be happy with acquiring Delcarmen. He would immediately become our 8th innning right handed setup man. I think some of you are forgetting just how awful our bullpen is this year. Delcarmen is definitely a nice bullpen piece that can help us immediately and in '08 and won't cost too much. Look how much guys like Jamie Walker, Bob Howry, and Chad Bradford got on the free agent market the past couple years. Solid setup men don't come cheap these days.

Goose
07-31-2007, 02:02 PM
Score just reported that Sox and Dye's agent have talked about an extension, but Dye's side did not think it was long enough...I would guess the Sox offered 2 years and Dye wants at least 3...

champagne030
07-31-2007, 02:02 PM
Further, who is to say KW is not picking up WMP and DelCarmen to immediately swap them for someone like Cordero, who is apparently available, and the Nat's are supposedly looking at WMP, but don't want an aging RF. Would we be OK with a Dye for Cordero trade? Let's just see how this all pans out.

The Nationals said no to WMP and wanted Bucholz. Plus, Cordero will command more than $5M/year. He got $4.15M in arbitration this year. Again, I'll pass and take the compensation picks or re-sign Dye.

whitesoxfan
07-31-2007, 02:08 PM
Score just reported that Sox and Dye's agent have talked about an extension, but Dye's side did not think it was long enough...I would guess the Sox offered 2 years and Dye wants at least 3...

If he doesn't want a 2 year extension, trade him. I think 2 years is plenty enough for him.

upperdeckusc
07-31-2007, 02:09 PM
Score just reported that Sox and Dye's agent have talked about an extension, but Dye's side did not think it was long enough...I would guess the Sox offered 2 years and Dye wants at least 3...

sorry, you dont get offered 3-4 yr extensions when you hit .230 in the first half. be happy we're offering you an extension as supposed to offering you a 6 mil arbitration.

soxinem1
07-31-2007, 02:10 PM
If he doesn't want a 2 year extension, trade him. I think 2 years is plenty enough for him.

I agree, especially since he's having such a 'great' year overall.

The only way he gets three is if it is an option.

dagotony06
07-31-2007, 02:11 PM
The Red Sox and Rangers have agreed to an Eric Gagne deal, pending Gagne waiving his no-trade clause, sources told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal

Goose
07-31-2007, 02:12 PM
If he doesn't want a 2 year extension, trade him. I think 2 years is plenty enough for him.

I agree with you. JD is 33 he will be 35 with a 2 year deal and then it is going to get sketchy on his health. I understand JD's position because he is getting older, and may not have another opportunity to get another contract worth a damn...

I say stick with 2 years and if not, then offer arb after 2007. The crap that teams (Boston) is offering for Dye is ridiculous. WMP can kiss my ass. He is not a "real" part of this trade. It is the prospect(s) that they offer, and they are offering ****.

Keep Dye and then arb after the year. If Dye will not sign a 2 yr deal, then he will not accept an arb deal either.

Frater Perdurabo
07-31-2007, 02:15 PM
The Red Sox and Rangers have agreed to an Eric Gagne deal, pending Gagne waiving his no-trade clause, sources told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal

Maybe Pena goes to the Rangers. Then, the Red Sox will have to offer someone else if they want Dye.

ode to veeck
07-31-2007, 02:15 PM
talks with Boston cooling as Red Sox not inclined to add a pitching prospect: http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/dye-to-boston.html

KW also rumored to be pondering a short term lower cost offer to keep Dye short term

Sockinchisox
07-31-2007, 02:16 PM
Maybe Pena goes to the Rangers. Then, the Red Sox will have to offer someone else if they want Dye.

God I hope so.

It would make much more sense for Pena to go to the Rangers, he'd get very minimal playing time here if Sweeney was brought up.

oeo
07-31-2007, 02:23 PM
talks with Boston cooling as Red Sox not inclined to add a pitching prospect: http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/dye-to-boston.html

KW also rumored to be pondering a short term lower cost offer to keep Dye short term

Psst...
Originally posted: July 30, 2007

The Immigrant
07-31-2007, 02:24 PM
talks with Boston cooling as Red Sox not inclined to add a pitching prospect: http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/dye-to-boston.html


Good. We'll see how well this works out for Epstein once Ortiz goes on the DL. Maybe WMP can be his DH then. :cool:

EDIT: **** me, this is an old blog post.

Rockabilly
07-31-2007, 02:31 PM
according to the Red Sox message board they're reporting that WEEI is saying that the Dye deal is close to being done.

Im not to sure if this is for real or not