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View Full Version : Michael Dubee (pitcher we acquired for Gooch)


rdivaldi
07-27-2007, 07:33 PM
A quick blurb:

"Michael Dubee was a 32nd-round pick for the Royals who faded as the season went on, but he has an advanced feel for pitching and a four-pitch repertoire. The son of Phillies pitching coach Rich, Dubee's fastball was up to 94 mph last fall, though he pitched around 87 mph this spring. He has a good curveball that he'll throw in any count. He uses his changeup effectively against lefthanders." --- 2006 draft report

goldglovesox
07-27-2007, 07:59 PM
He is not a prospect. He should not even pitch in AA.

Iguchi was sold basically. Kenny tried to save face and get "something" for him which in actuality turned out to be nothing. This is a terrible deal. But as always you take too much heat if you hold onto a guy until he walks. Same thing happened with Ray Durham except Jon Adkins actually had some ability!

anewman35
07-27-2007, 08:06 PM
He is not a prospect. He should not even pitch in AA.

Iguchi was sold basically. Kenny tried to save face and get "something" for him which in actuality turned out to be nothing. This is a terrible deal. But as always you take too much heat if you hold onto a guy until he walks. Same thing happened with Ray Durham except Jon Adkins actually had some ability!

And what's wrong with that, really? What was another 2 months of Iguchi going to do?

Daver
07-27-2007, 08:25 PM
He is not a prospect. He should not even pitch in AA.

Iguchi was sold basically. Kenny tried to save face and get "something" for him which in actuality turned out to be nothing. This is a terrible deal. But as always you take too much heat if you hold onto a guy until he walks. Same thing happened with Ray Durham except Jon Adkins actually had some ability!

The Sox drafted Dubee out of HS, he did not sign and went to college, and was drafted out of college by the Royals, and traded to the Phillies, he is a prospect.

champagne030
07-27-2007, 08:33 PM
The Sox drafted Dubee out of HS, he did not sign and went to college, and was drafted out of college by the Royals, and traded to the Phillies, he is a prospect.

Was he really traded to the Phillies? I read he was our 20th round pick in 2004, the Royals 32nd round pick in 2005 and the Phillies 18th round pick in 2006. He had a pretty good year in 2006 in JC and was due to transfer to the University of Tennessee. He ended up signing with the Phillies after the draft.

All that said, I agree he's a prospect.

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 08:38 PM
He is not a prospect. He should not even pitch in AA.

Iguchi was sold basically. Kenny tried to save face and get "something" for him which in actuality turned out to be nothing. This is a terrible deal. But as always you take too much heat if you hold onto a guy until he walks. Same thing happened with Ray Durham except Jon Adkins actually had some ability!
*** do you know? A terrible deal? Danny Richar is the most valuable player in the discussion and he's going to get playing time because of this deal. As for what we could have gotten, Iguchi wasn't going to be worth any draft picks so it's either take a low level prospect or some washout former major league player. KW took the smart route. It's just too bad KW didn't make this kind of move earlier. Hopefully Pods and co. are next to be shipped out of here. It's time for Sweeney.

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-27-2007, 09:21 PM
Does anyone know if he got his velocity back this yr?

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 10:28 PM
I think the most important issue here is the fact that the Sox now have Dubee, Danks, and Hash all in the same organization. We could have drafted Smoker this year but didn't, although we did draft another Danks before and may do so again.

A. Cavatica
07-27-2007, 11:30 PM
Too bad this guy (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bongju01.shtml) is out of baseball.

Nellie_Fox
07-28-2007, 01:12 AM
*** do you know?The post would have accomplished its purpose without this sentence. No personal attacks. You've been warned before.

the1tab
07-28-2007, 08:35 AM
So if Owens & the young 2B are going to get 2 month tryouts, and I assume that Crede's future at third is a question mark because Fields is doing well in his "tryout," where is Sweeney? Do we have to move Dye before he gets to come up? And would that fly w/out the media calling it "another white flag season on the South Side?"

jabrch
07-28-2007, 08:39 AM
And would that fly w/out the media calling it "another white flag season on the South Side?"

It is a "White Flag" season - we have surrendered - and for good reason. The difference between this and the last one is that we were only 4 1/2 games out (I think) when we made that deal. This time we are long out. Smart teams know when to wave the white flag and capitalize on valuable pieces. I hope KW continues to move veterans who aren't part of the future. Dye should be next to go unless he signs a contract that gives KW significant value. Unfortunately Contreras will be hard to move at this point - certainly you won't get anything for him - and you may not want to deal Javy and Jon.

goldglovesox
07-28-2007, 11:46 AM
Ok all of you who said he was a prospect. Why?

Below average stuff across the board. Will barely scrape 90 which for relievers is below major league average. This guy is not a major league prospect guys. I am sorry but I'm being honest here. Saw this guy throw in June against Hagerstown. I think he had 2 scoreless innings but nothing is there guys. Listen I think we could have gotten more for an established big league 2B. Not a reliever in low-A. Just like trading an established Ray Durham who is still producing in the major leagues for reliever Jon Adkins. Not trying to pick fights here but giving my honest opinion.

We gave Iguchi away.

HotelWhiteSox
07-28-2007, 12:20 PM
Ha, I heard this guy was the pitching coach's son, probably only on the roster for that reason, must be pretty worthless to trade him away. Well, the postgame they said Kenny said he didn't care about the player coming back since it was to open a roster spot. But please, don't give me this crap about 'ooo, it's possible we'll sign Iguchi this offseason', then what was the point? And I'm sure it's a lot easier to sign him when other teams are now in the running :rolleyes:

oeo
07-28-2007, 12:41 PM
So if Owens & the young 2B are going to get 2 month tryouts, and I assume that Crede's future at third is a question mark because Fields is doing well in his "tryout," where is Sweeney? Do we have to move Dye before he gets to come up? And would that fly w/out the media calling it "another white flag season on the South Side?"

Well, there's a huge difference between that season and this one. This year, we're currently 13.5 games back, in '97 we were only 3.5 back.

Kenny plans on building a contender over the offseason, so he needs to get a gauge on what these kids can do. They will either earn themselves a job for next year, or Kenny will have to fill those holes elsewhere.

Chipol
07-28-2007, 12:49 PM
You might argue that we could have gotten a better low level prospect, but a big part of this deal was opening the roster spot. KW could have only traded Gooch for a non-roster player. With half the BP sent down and brought up, plus the injuries, the roster is a problem also.

KRS1
07-28-2007, 10:16 PM
Below average stuff across the board. Will barely scrape 90 which for relievers is below major league average.


Please, tell us how much of the kid you have seen to make this assesment. If you are basing this on ONE article written about where his velocity was this spring, where everyones velocity is down, then just stop.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/news/264570.html


Dubee is the son of Phillies pitching coach Rich Dubee, which might have made for an awkward moment or two for Phillies general manager Pat Gillick when making this deal. Dubee has pitched well (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/stats/player.php?id=452774) at low Class A Lakewood this season, his first full one in the minors, working in middle relief. He has a knack for pitching and throws strikes with an average to slightly above-average fastball that touches 94 mph. He also throws a changeup and uses his curveball as his out pitch.

That says he has a "slightly above average fastball that touches 94". Certainly doesnt sound "barely scraping 90", and I will take BA's word for it any day over mostly anyone here, especially someone who is so clearly set on poo-pooing this deal. There's even more BA subscirber articles that talk about him, and other mentions confirming that velocity. I dont care for this trade very much either(although, I didnt really expect anything close to a huge return), but at least have proof when you say things as if they were facts. Yes he is a bit old for high-A while not having any truly mind-blowing numbers, but he just made his pro debut last summer, so it's not like it's a terrible pace for him by any means. A couple nice numbers on him that I like are his very nice ground out to fly out frequency. 59 GO compared to 28 others, and 79 ground balls overall compared to 57 other batted balls is nice too.

California Sox
07-28-2007, 11:17 PM
Below average stuff or above average stuff, Dubee made his Intimidator debut tonight. 1IP 0H 0R 0BB 3K. Can't do much better than that.

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 11:41 PM
Below average stuff or above average stuff, Dubee made his Intimidator debut tonight. 1IP 0H 0R 0BB 3K. Can't do much better than that.
Yeah you can do better, get the 3 k's on 9 pitches:wink:

Frater Perdurabo
07-29-2007, 07:33 AM
Yeah you can do better, get the 3 k's on 9 pitches:wink:

Bugs Bunny struck out the side on one pitch. :tongue:

goldglovesox
07-29-2007, 08:55 AM
I use extreme caution when reading Baseball America. You would be amazed at how little they know.

Think about this. They know what everyone INSIDE baseball tells them. People inside the game know this. So why on earth wouldn't they tell the people at Baseball America how good everyone is and try to raise the price a little bit of their own prospects. I will give you two examples, both in the 2002 season. We traded for two prospects RHP Felix Diaz and RHP Jon Adkins. According to Baseball America Adkins threw up to 94 and Diaz "WORKS in the mid-90's" That's 94-96. Felix Diaz did not come close to that when he made his debut with us. He was 88-91 and I never saw Adkins above 92 which means again he WORKS at 87-90. If you wish to see more look at our prospect list in 2001 and 2002. All of the Top Prospects we had were rumored to throw in the mid-90's and in actuality half of them did and the ones that did had no command.

So again Baseball America is really all we have to go by but nevertheless I am very wary of that publication. #1 it has an agenda (gives maximum coverage to those who provide info) and #2 it goes off of what people inside Baseball give them. It is not Bible.

KRS1
07-29-2007, 11:11 PM
I use extreme caution when reading Baseball America. You would be amazed at how little they know.

Think about this. They know what everyone INSIDE baseball tells them. People inside the game know this. So why on earth wouldn't they tell the people at Baseball America how good everyone is and try to raise the price a little bit of their own prospects. I will give you two examples, both in the 2002 season. We traded for two prospects RHP Felix Diaz and RHP Jon Adkins. According to Baseball America Adkins threw up to 94 and Diaz "WORKS in the mid-90's" That's 94-96. Felix Diaz did not come close to that when he made his debut with us. He was 88-91 and I never saw Adkins above 92 which means again he WORKS at 87-90. If you wish to see more look at our prospect list in 2001 and 2002. All of the Top Prospects we had were rumored to throw in the mid-90's and in actuality half of them did and the ones that did had no command.

So again Baseball America is really all we have to go by but nevertheless I am very wary of that publication. #1 it has an agenda (gives maximum coverage to those who provide info) and #2 it goes off of what people inside Baseball give them. It is not Bible.


My statement was more pointed toward the fact that you straight out said he has "below average stuff across the board", as if it were a fact that you know. Yet you dont cite any source, or have any first hand knowledge of him. I dont read BA like it is the end all be all, but they have been very accurate about a lot of the players they scout. How you say they just collect information from second hand sources is not true. They have scouts and see a lot of the players they talk about first hand, unlike BP and others who simply look at paper and analyze numbers and go off second hand opinions. They have very good partnerships in the scouting community, and even though I have seen more than a few innacurate statements on there, I have found them to be correct much more often than not. Like I said, I'll take their write-ups on him any day over a brief blurb about where the kid was warming up in ST.

goldglovesox
07-30-2007, 08:57 PM
You obviously did not read my previous post where I said I did see him. So yes I did see him. And Baseball America does not employ scouts. Writers are not scouts. They go out and speak to other scouts and people inside baseball. All information to people at BA about minor league players is second hand basically. Now amateur stuff they do an excellent job with. But Minor Leagues they are at the mercy of the access provided to them by the organizations. But like I said, its all we have. But trust me you would be surprised at how often they are wrong. But hey just my opinion. Take it for what its worth. But you are right about BP. That is such a narrow view of the game. I do not even read that stuff. Numbers tell half the story.