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whitesoxfan
07-27-2007, 03:40 PM
...to the Phillies for a Single A player according to ESPN 1000.

knocko94
07-27-2007, 03:40 PM
Dare I say, it's Richar time?

oeo
07-27-2007, 03:40 PM
...to the Phillies for a Single A player according to ESPN 1000.

Wow...:?:

102605
07-27-2007, 03:41 PM
For ONLY a low level prospect?

Gammons Peter
07-27-2007, 03:41 PM
per SCORE to Philly

knocko94
07-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Hopefully it's a nice prospect, the Phils must be desperate with Utley hurt.

Luke
07-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Ptbnl?

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 03:43 PM
is this a ****ing joke?

oeo
07-27-2007, 03:43 PM
I'll hold off judgment until we know who it is we got in return. But, just one Single A player? Damn, Iguchi isn't bad. He is a free agent, but seems like we could get a little more.

DickAllen72
07-27-2007, 03:43 PM
Single A player??? That sucks.

HotelWhiteSox
07-27-2007, 03:44 PM
I'll hold off judgment until we know who it is we got in return. But, just one Single A player? Damn, Iguchi isn't bad. He is a free agent, but seems like we could get a little more.

My thoughts as well

Gammons Peter
07-27-2007, 03:45 PM
Wouldnt he have been worth a couple of picks in next years draft, type-A or B??

102605
07-27-2007, 03:45 PM
I was hoping Tadahito would end up in San Diego.

Its a bit sad to see Iguchi go. He broke into MLB here and was a sparkplug behind the healthy Pods in 2005. It was a perfect fit for a big hole we had at 2B for awhile. I would have liked to see him in 2008 still but I guess that money will be better spent fixing our larger holes and problems.

Good luck Tadahito, you are/were forever part of probably the most memorable baseball season Chicago has seen in 100 years.

havelj
07-27-2007, 03:46 PM
Any of these guys?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263074.html

jdm2662
07-27-2007, 03:46 PM
I will wait until an offical note is made. This sounds like a "sources" story.

Tad is not exactly lighting the world on fire this year. I didn't expect much for him via trade.

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 03:46 PM
It doesn't matter who we get in return. The sox could not receive a draft pick if he signed elsewhere due to the nature of his contract. The rest of this year is a tryout for 2008 and it's time to see if Danny Richar is the 2b next year.

MinnySoxFan
07-27-2007, 03:46 PM
ok....now its time to panic. UNLESS ITS ROWAND TIME BABY!!!

PatK
07-27-2007, 03:47 PM
Philly just called up an Infielder/outfielder.

I'm hoping this is BS- I see nothing on the MLB, Sox, Phils, or ESPN websites.

lostfan
07-27-2007, 03:47 PM
This guy better be hot **** man, Iguchi was one of my favorite players, underrated

MinnySoxFan
07-27-2007, 03:47 PM
I checked rotoworld, and they are up to speed on these things.

102605
07-27-2007, 03:48 PM
Any of these guys?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/features/263074.html

Greg Golson, of looks pretty appealing.

Gammons Peter
07-27-2007, 03:48 PM
please delete, didnt see the other post

santo=dorf
07-27-2007, 03:49 PM
For ONLY a low level prospect?
I'm sure the "management can do no wrong" (established in 2005) will spin this around and say "How do you KNOW that's all KW could get?" and "I trust KW's judgement more than yours."

I thought Ozzie said there wasn't going to be any trades?

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 03:50 PM
I see nothing online

oeo
07-27-2007, 03:50 PM
Greg Golson, of looks pretty appealing.

This is who I'm thinking it might be. He was just called up to AA yesterday.

SoxFan78
07-27-2007, 03:51 PM
I love how the Score 670 announces the trade then goes into 3 hours of commercials...

jdm2662
07-27-2007, 03:51 PM
I see nothing online

Surprise! I wonder what the "source" was to report this story...

Gammons Peter
07-27-2007, 03:52 PM
RHP doobie?

jsg-07
07-27-2007, 03:54 PM
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Michael%20Dubee&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452774

bumptious987
07-27-2007, 03:54 PM
single A pitcher doobie? *** 3.88 ERA. wow he's 6'2" too! awesome!

WizardsofOzzie
07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
RHP doobie?
At least now we can say "Danks is out, Doobie is in"

DickAllen72
07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
The Score just confirmed it's Michael Dubee, a single A relief pitcher.

aryzner
07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
I don't know how I feel about this yet.

ChiWavDave
07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
traded for RHP Michael Dubee

JohnTucker0814
07-27-2007, 03:55 PM
Greg Golson, of looks pretty appealing.

Fastest Baserunner
Best Athlete

Pretty good words... I haven't looked too far into him...

whitesoxfan
07-27-2007, 03:56 PM
single A pitcher doobie? *** 3.88 ERA. wow he's 6'2" too! awesome!

High K guy...sounds like another one of those relievers with great stuff but can't put it together. Seems like Kenny hasn't learned at all about how bad that has worked out for us this year.

jsg-07
07-27-2007, 03:56 PM
Maybe I'm biased because I am a Sox fan and have seen Iguchi play quite well.. but I gotta be honest, I thought we could get maybe a little more for Gooch.

Hopefully there is something else involved. :?:

DickAllen72
07-27-2007, 03:57 PM
Fastest Baserunner
Best Athlete

Pretty good words... I haven't looked too far into him...
Who cares, we got a single A relief pitcher instead. :cool:

oeo
07-27-2007, 03:57 PM
We've been good at scouting young pitchers lately, but this doesn't have me excited right now.

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 03:58 PM
That is all?

SBSoxFan
07-27-2007, 03:58 PM
At least now we can say "Danks is out, Doobie is in"

Or we could say "which Doobie you be?" :redneck

Anyway, I think I'm pretty pissed about this. :angry:

MagicNumber22
07-27-2007, 03:58 PM
Per Baseball America:

'Michael Dubee was a 32nd-round pick for the Royals who faded as the season went on, but he has an advanced feel for pitching and a four-pitch repertoire. The son of Phillies pitching coach Rich, Dubee's fastball was up to 94 mph last fall, though he pitched around 87 mph this spring. He has a good curveball that he'll throw in any count. He uses his changeup effectively against lefthanders.'

Interesting.

See ya Gooch. Thanks for the memories.

thegooch
07-27-2007, 03:58 PM
I thought the gooch would be worth a little more.

champagne030
07-27-2007, 03:59 PM
I'm sure the "management can do no wrong" (established in 2005) will spin this around and say "How do you KNOW that's all KW could get?" and "I trust KW's judgement more than yours."



What are you talking about? There was obviously no better deal available than Gio and Gavin for Garcia.

oeo
07-27-2007, 03:59 PM
High K guy...sounds like another one of those relievers with great stuff but can't put it together. Seems like Kenny hasn't learned at all about how bad that has worked out for us this year.

Yeah, it sounds like the same exact thing. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's a good trade (right now it looks terrible), but this guy is 20 years old and in Single A. How is that comparable to guys like Sisco, Aardsma, etc.?

SoxFan78
07-27-2007, 03:59 PM
I thought the gooch would be worth a little more.

The Gooch SHOULD of been worth more then some Single A reliever. I slap in the face to him if you ask me.

spawn
07-27-2007, 04:00 PM
If this is true...I'm pissed.:angry:

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:00 PM
What are you talking about? There was obviously no better deal available than Gio and Gavin for Garcia.

You want to give me some links to other deals? Freddy Garcia was damaged goods.

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 04:00 PM
The Gooch SHOULD of been worth more then some Single A reliever. I slap in the face to him if you ask me.


A kick below the belt also

VenturaFan23
07-27-2007, 04:00 PM
So long to one of my favorite Sox players! :whiner::whiner:

I feel the same as most here. Only a single-A pitcher?? You've got to be kidding me!

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Not really surprising that there wasn't much market for Iguchi. A 2 month rental of a guy who has had trouble getting untracked all season isn't going to bring much in return.

And allow me to now steal someone's thunder. So where's the "I'm going to cancel my season tickets because they traded Iguchi" posts?

Fred Manrique
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
What's the Phillies best message board? Love to hear what they think of this...

mwc44
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Official on White Sox.com

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070727&content_id=2112870&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

champagne030
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
We've been good at scouting young pitchers lately, but this doesn't have me excited right now.

You mean like Masset, Aardsma, Sisco, Floyd, ect.?


You want to give me some links to other deals? Freddy Garcia was damaged goods.

Freddy wasn't damaged at the time.

Mr.1Dog
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Mother ****er...This has to be joke...:angry::whiner:

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
What's the Phillies best message board? Love to hear what they think of this...


Probably we are dumb.

Bucky F. Dent
07-27-2007, 04:01 PM
Here's the link to the Phillies site.


http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070727&content_id=2112873&vkey=pr_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi


I'm not feeling too thrilled with this right now.

#1venturafan
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
They should be thrilled.

santo=dorf
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
Per Baseball America:

'Michael Dubee was a 32nd-round pick for the Royals who faded as the season went on, but he has an advanced feel for pitching and a four-pitch repertoire. The son of Phillies pitching coach Rich, Dubee's fastball was up to 94 mph last fall, though he pitched around 87 mph this spring. He has a good curveball that he'll throw in any count. He uses his changeup effectively against lefthanders.'

Interesting.

See ya Gooch. Thanks for the memories.
So he's throwing as "hard" as Garcia. I like the low HR rate, but this trade reeks "Durham-Adkins" with the exception the Sox knew for a fact that Iguchi would not bring back any supplemental picks.

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
This is worse than the Durham trade. At least we got Adkins for Durham.

skottyj242
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
What did they get for his interpreter?

PatK
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
I would have taken risking losing Gooch via free agency rather than trade him for a single A relief pitcher with a 3.88 ERA, .248 BAA, and 1.34 WHIP.

Now who the hell is going to play second?

I can't wait to see the Uribe/Cintron double play combo!!!

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
Official on White Sox.com

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070727&content_id=2112870&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
And the mods had just moved it to WTS, now they have to move it back...

manders_01
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
You would think supply and demand would have played into this a bit. I seriously can't believe this trade. So far, it seems we got hosed!

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
Unconfirmed WSCR rumor right now. I'll move it back to the clubhouse if it gets confirmed.

Paulwny
07-27-2007, 04:03 PM
Not really surprising that there wasn't much market for Iguchi. A 2 month rental of a guy who has had trouble getting untracked all season isn't going to bring much in return.



Absolutely correct, you don't get much for a rental player.

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-27-2007, 04:03 PM
Unconfirmed WSCR rumor right now. I'll move it back to the clubhouse if it gets confirmed.

It is on the Sox official Website.

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:04 PM
Unconfirmed WSCR rumor right now. I'll move it back to the clubhouse if it gets confirmed.
Press Release from the Sox is a few posts up...

bumptious987
07-27-2007, 04:04 PM
Yeah that's true. He is a two month rental. We do still have the chance to resign him. It gives Danny Richar a chance to show what he can do. I guess the Sox could then decide if he's our 2B of the future. If not, we could go after Gooch again.

santo=dorf
07-27-2007, 04:04 PM
You want to give me some links to other deals? Freddy Garcia was damaged goods.
Nobody reported any other deals, and even if they did, the pollyannas would laugh it off questioning the source. There were reports of other teams being interested, including the Astros, who gave up a very nice package for Jason Jennings. They made that trade a day or two after the Garcia trade.

VenturaFan23
07-27-2007, 04:04 PM
I can't wait to see the Uribe/Cintron double play combo!!!

:puking::puking:<- one for each player

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 04:04 PM
What do you guys realistically think you're getting back for a slumping free agent to be 2b? With Richar ripping up AAA, i'd rather see what he has for the next 2 months, rather than going in blind to spring training.

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 04:05 PM
What did they get for his interpreter?


:rolling:

they paid us 2 mil for him. All we got for Gooch was a Single A pitcher.

whitesoxfan
07-27-2007, 04:05 PM
I would have taken risking losing Gooch via free agency rather than trade him for a single A relief pitcher with a 3.88 ERA, .248 BAA, and 1.34 WHIP.

Now who the hell is going to play second?

I can't wait to see the Uribe/Cintron double play combo!!!

The Danny Richar era is about to begin.

cleanwsox
07-27-2007, 04:05 PM
Yeah that's true. He is a two month rental. We do still have the chance to resign him. It gives Danny Richar a chance to show what he can do. I guess the Sox could then decide if he's our 2B of the future. If not, we could go after Gooch again.

Exactly, it's not like the Phillies are going to need him with Utley there. I like it, give Richar a shot here and see what we have.

Jerko
07-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Well once Seattle signed Ichiro we didn't need Gooch to try to sway him to come to Chicago anymore.

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Nobody reported any other deals, and even if they did, the pollyannas would laugh it off questioning the source. There were reports of other teams being interested, including the Astros, who gave up a very nice package for Jason Jennings. They made that trade a day or two after the Garcia trade.

The Astros were reportedly looking at Garland, not Garcia. And besides, just because they were interested, does not mean they were offering anything better. And again, the guy was damaged goods...that trade looks pretty damn good to me, now.

jenn2080
07-27-2007, 04:07 PM
:puking::puking:<- one for each player


I think you should double that for each player.

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 04:07 PM
Well once Seattle signed Ichiro we didn't need Gooch to try to sway him to come to Chicago anymore.


Good call.

DeadMoney
07-27-2007, 04:08 PM
What do you guys realistically think you're getting back for a slumping free agent to be 2b? With Richar ripping up AAA, i'd rather see what he has for the next 2 months, rather than going in blind to spring training.

Agreed. Sadly, a .251 hitter (career .273) and free agent at year's end isn't going to demand a lot via a trade. I have to figure that every offer Kenny was getting before today was below the value of this deal because this is a desperation move by the Phillies.

pdimas
07-27-2007, 04:08 PM
Its being reported at whitesox.com I think its official.

southside rocks
07-27-2007, 04:09 PM
It's official.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070727&content_id=2112870&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Oh my.

chisoxwschamps05
07-27-2007, 04:09 PM
What's so special about this Dubee guy?? He has a 3.88 ERA in single A, and that's the best we could get for our starting second baseman?? I know there isn't a huge market, but Kenny could have done way better than that.

kittle42
07-27-2007, 04:09 PM
Iguchi isn't that great and is a rent-a-player. I don't see why everyone is so ticked.

santo=dorf
07-27-2007, 04:18 PM
The Astros were reportedly looking at Garland, not Garcia. Just because they were interested, does not mean they were offering anything better. And again, the guy was damaged goods...that trade looks pretty damn good to me, now.
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Garcia's injury happened this season. He said so himself. Garcia was clearly hurting at the end of last season as his September ERA was only around 2.50.

The Houston Chronicle and Chicago Tribune both reported that the Sox fan-GM of Houston called Kenny inquiring about Garcia.

The Astros have displayed some interest in Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez.

It's unclear whether the White Sox would want to bring in Willy Taveras to play center field. They might instead the Astros for one of their relievers if trade talks progress.
Source: Chicago Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-0612060196dec06,1,862316.story?coll=cs-baseball-print)



Houston may seek Garcia

Wednesday, Dec 6, 2006 12:56 pm EST

http://f3.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_rumors/ept_sports_rumors-664257027-1165427728.jpg?ymRgJr8C7qms4gdm Getty Images

The Houston Astros (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/hou/) could go after Chicago White Sox (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/chw/) starter Freddy Garcia (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6168/).
Astros' GM Tim Purpura spent quite a bit of his time discussing with his top lieutenants the merit of making an inquiry for Garcia.
As of early Tuesday evening, Purpura had not asked White Sox GM Kenny Williams what it would take to land Garcia, but those talks may start soon.
The Astros continued their dialogue with the Colorado Rockies (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/teams/col/) for righthander Jason Jennings (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6785/).

Source: Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/4382216.html)http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/nt/ic/ut/bsc/newwin12_1.gif (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/4382216.html)

Prove to me that a team being interested means, 100%, there was no deal made. Tell me why I am wrong to think that a team that is reportedly interested in a pitcher, and then trades for another pitcher soon after, made some kind of offer for that first pitcher.

I wouldn't call the Garcia trade "damn good" on any level because his salary went to our arbitration eligible players and our two free agent signings: Erstad, Hall, Pods, Cintron and Crede. Waste of cash right there.
He also sold low in a high demand mark. If you sold your Enron stock for less than its value, would you be doing backflips when the company went bankrupt? Of course not, because you could've had more when you originally sold it.

Gio Gonzalez's trade value was higher when we first traded him away. That by definition is a loss. How exactly is Gio Gonzalez spending yet another year in AA beneficial to the major league team? It isn't. No spin you can use there. It also doesn't help when the big mouthed GM said he wouldn't trade a starting pitcher unless the return package helped out the major league team. So either he's a hypocrite, the major league team is performing so well they don't need the package, or he screwed up. Which is it?

Patrick134
07-27-2007, 04:18 PM
Iguchi isn't that great and is a rent-a-player. I don't see why everyone is so ticked.


Right. The Sox are free to pursue him as a free agent this winter if they wanted to.

DeadMoney
07-27-2007, 04:18 PM
Iguchi isn't that great and is a rent-a-player. I don't see why everyone is so ticked.

Absolutely. It's not like KW has been hanging out by the beach for the last month not doing anything. He's been listening to offers day-in and day-out and since THIS is a desperation trade (by the Phillies) for Iguchi, I'd hate to know what a normal offer was for him.

Juice16
07-27-2007, 04:18 PM
Well, hopefully the Sox will get good use of the bag of balls we got from Philly.
4-4 with a 3 something era in single A for our starting MLB 2B?

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 04:20 PM
I guess Gavin won't be lonely anymore.

Patrick134
07-27-2007, 04:20 PM
Well, hopefully the Sox will get good use of the bag of balls we got from Philly.
4-4 with a 3 something era in single A for our starting MLB 2B?


Thanks for that keen insight of reading his stats off of a website. Always appreciate in-depth analysis. I have no idea how good or not good this kid is, and neither do you.

102605
07-27-2007, 04:22 PM
Nobody has any clue about Michael Dubee and what he brings other than by looking at his stats.

Iguchi is a 32 year old average starting 2B with 3 more months on his contract. I loved Tadahito to death in 2005 but lets let Dubee have a little time in our system before we pass judgement on him and this trade.

California Sox
07-27-2007, 04:23 PM
Someone said that Iguchi's contract barred the Sox from offering Iguchi arbitration. As such, we were going to lose him for nothing at the end of the year. I guess something beats nothing. Now, on the other hand, if we could have gotten two draft picks for him, this is a TERRIBLE deal. Either way, a great trade for the Phils to get an above average major-leaguer for a mediocre reliever in a pitcher-friendly lo-A league. Maybe it's a makeup for Garcia.

For us, it'll be good to see if Richar is anywhere near ready. Unless we're in for two months of Cintron/Gonzalez. *shudders*

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 04:23 PM
Looks like this isn't the first time he's been in our organization. Check out Round 20

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xteam.php?team=CWS

southside rocks
07-27-2007, 04:24 PM
Thanks for that keen insight of reading his stats off of a website. Always appreciate in-depth analysis. I have no idea how good or not good this kid is, and neither do you.

Agree, it's way too early to bash this kid or this deal.

He's 22 years old and he's a relief pitcher. KW is determined to fix the bullpen and if this is a start, I'm going to reserve judgement until I know more about Dubee.

I'll miss Guch. I'm glad I went to the game yesterday and cheered him, and I'll always have a great appreciation for him and what he did in the '05 season for the Sox. He's a class guy.

JermaineDye05
07-27-2007, 04:24 PM
well any news on when Danny will be getting his call up? I can only assume that it will be prior to tonights game.

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2007, 04:24 PM
Withhold judgment until comprehension is complete.

In the meantime... meh.

Juice16
07-27-2007, 04:24 PM
Sorry Patrick, are you gonna scold the other posts that made similar remarks? I know one guy is a starting 2B in the Majors and the other is a relief pitcher in single A with mediocre stats. That is not an even trade.

102605
07-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Looks like this isn't the first time he's been in our organization. Check out Round 20

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xteam.php?team=CWS

Nice catch! Looks like he went unsigned. I guess KW and the rest of the scouts must be pretty high on this guy.

He looks like future bullpen help/insurance to me. Good trade!

Frontman
07-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Aw man, sorry to see him go. But faith in KW, faith in KW.

BUT BUT BUT............










WE DIDN'T GET AARON ROWAND BACK! WAAAAAAAA!!!!! :wink:

cleanwsox
07-27-2007, 04:25 PM
Looks like this isn't the first time he's been in our organization. Check out Round 20

http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xteam.php?team=CWS

Must have scouted him at high school before he went to junior college. Somebody must think highly of him in the organization.

y2j2785
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
You can't expect to get a whole lot more than a guy like Dubee for a free agent to be who you supposedly can't recieve draft picks for if he signs elsewhere.

Frontman
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Sorry Patrick, are you gonna scold the other posts that made similar remarks? I know one guy is a starting 2B in the Majors and the other is a relief pitcher in single A with mediocre stats. That is not an even trade.

Save for the fact that the single A's salary is nowhere near close to what Iguchi will want to re-sign with the Sox next year.

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Iguchi isn't that great and is a rent-a-player. I don't see why everyone is so ticked.

I'd have to agree. Look at Iguchi's production this year. His RBI total is similar to Fields, a rookie who has not had nearly as many ABs. Tadahito is having a struggling year.

How much is 60 games and 200 ABs from Iguchi worth on the trade market? Not much, IMO.

Obviously, the organization wants to find out whether Richar could be a long-term answer at 2B. These next 60 games are a good time to find out.

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Garcia's injury happened this season. He said so himself. Garcia was clearly hurting at the end of last season as his September ERA was only around 2.50.
His velocity was down last year, which meant something. I didn't say he was hurt last year, but he was still damaged goods...even if he had a good end to the season.

The Houston Chronicle and Chicago Tribune both reported that the Sox fan-GM of Houston called Kenny inquiring about Garcia.Okay, I did not remember that.

Prove to me that a team being interested means, 100%, there was no deal made. Tell me why I am wrong to think that a team that is reportedly interested in a pitcher, and then trades for another pitcher soon after, made some kind of offer for that first pitcher.Read my post again. I said, just because they are interested, does not mean what they offered was anything better than we got. That trade for Jennings, was the same one rumored for Garland. Do you think that Garcia and Garland had the same trade value over the offseason? No, they didn't. Garland was younger, under contract longer, without risk of a big decline, and currently the better pitcher. So for whatever reason, the Astros thought more highly of Jennings than Garcia.

I wouldn't call the Garcia trade "damn good" on any level because his salary went to our arbitration eligible players and our two free agent signings: Erstad, Hall, Pods, Cintron and Crede. Waste of cash right there.
He also sold low in a high demand mark. If you sold your Enron stock for less than its value, would you be doing backflips when the company went bankrupt? Of course not, because you could've had more when you originally sold it.We got Gio back, and sent a pitcher on the decline off on his way. I'd call that a good trade. Considering he hasn't pitched for the Phillies (and when he has, it's been bad), our return was pretty good.

Gio Gonzalez's trade value was higher when we first traded him away. That by definition is a loss. How exactly is Gio Gonzalez spending yet another year in AA beneficial to the major league team? It isn't. No spin you can use there. It also doesn't help when the big mouthed GM said he wouldn't trade a starting pitcher unless the return package helped out the major league team. So either he's a hypocrite, the major league team is performing so well they don't need the package, or he screwed up. Which is it?Well...I think Kenny's plan was to insert Floyd into the rotation (would have been a bad one, I'll admit).

And Gio will help solidify the top of our rotation for years down the road, so if we gave up a pitcher on the brink of injury (who we were not going to re-sign) for a young, LHP pitcher with loads of potential, I'm going to call it a good deal.

GAsoxfan
07-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Just from looking at the stats, he seems to be a groundball pitcher who doesn't give up the long ball. His WHIP isn't very good, but he has a solid K/BB ratio.

Honestly, how much can you expect for sixty games of an average 2B?

thomas35forever
07-27-2007, 04:29 PM
The Phillies wasted no time finding a replacement for Chase Utley. I think this trade is one-sided. Kenny's still in his "build for the future" mode. Why not try and take advantage of any chance at the playoffs we may have left? In the words of Garth Algar, "LIVE IN THE NOW!"

chisoxfanatic
07-27-2007, 04:29 PM
So, now we get to have a steady diet of Alex Cintron??? Excuse me while I throw up!

southside rocks
07-27-2007, 04:30 PM
We got Gio back, and sent a pitcher on the decline off on his way. I'd call that a good trade. Considering he hasn't pitched for the Phillies (and when he has, it's been bad), our return was pretty good.



Agree, and it also freed up something like $10 million in (Freddy's) 2007 salary, IIRC.

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:30 PM
The Phillies wasted no time finding a replacement for Chase Utley. I think this trade is one-sided. Kenny's still in his "build for the future" mode. Why not try and take advantage of any chance at the playoffs we may have left? In the words of Garth Algar, "LIVE IN THE NOW!"
*insert the Jim Mora rant about playoffs here*

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2007, 04:31 PM
So, now we get to have a steady diet of Alex Cintron??? Excuse me while I throw up!

If KW calls up Richar, and then Ozzie still plays Cintron 30+ times at second, I'm going to be extremely pissed.

FedEx227
07-27-2007, 04:31 PM
The Phillies wasted no time finding a replacement for Chase Utley. I think this trade is one-sided. Kenny's still in his "build for the future" mode. Why not try and take advantage of any chance at the playoffs we may have left? In the words of Garth Algar, "LIVE IN THE NOW!"

You're kidding right?

What'd they put in the Kool-Aid? We have absolutely no chance of reaching the playoffs this year.

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2007, 04:32 PM
:tomatoaward

Sargeant79
07-27-2007, 04:32 PM
So, now we get to have a steady diet of Alex Cintron??? Excuse me while I throw up!

No...you'll probably get a steady diet of Danny Richar. I think you'll see him up in the bigs within a few days. I'd be surprised if this move wasn't mostly about getting a look at him to find out of he's ready for next year or if they need to pick someone up in free agency.

thomas35forever
07-27-2007, 04:33 PM
You're kidding right?

What'd they put in the Kool-Aid? We have absolutely no chance of reaching the playoffs this year.
Okay, maybe I overemphasized my point, which was why not get an established player instead for next year?

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:33 PM
Well...I think Kenny's plan was to insert Floyd into the rotation (would have been a bad one, I'll admit).
That's really what will determine how good the trade was. It is likely that we could have gotten a different package elsewhere. Better or worse will be determined at another time. But Floyd will be a major piece of making that decision. If he busts, it will be hard to say KW made the right choice.

And Gio will help solidify the top of our rotation for years down the road, so if we gave up a pitcher on the brink of injury (who we were not going to re-sign) for a young, LHP pitcher with loads of potential, I'm going to call it a good deal.
That is a very confident statement for a guy who has yet to pitch beyond AA ball. Gio may never throw a major league pitch. He might be an absolute bust. I'll give you he has potential, a whole lot of it, but to assume at this point that he will solidify the top of the rotation for years to come is extrapolating a lot from his minimal success to this point.

Goose
07-27-2007, 04:33 PM
What I want to know is:

What the **** do we need another pitcher in the minors, and by the looks of his stats, not a blow-the-charts-out type of pitcher at that)?

Why couldn't we look for position help instead? We are mediocre pitcher heavy and position player thin in the minors/majors.

jdm2662
07-27-2007, 04:34 PM
Not really surprising that there wasn't much market for Iguchi. A 2 month rental of a guy who has had trouble getting untracked all season isn't going to bring much in return.

And allow me to now steal someone's thunder. So where's the "I'm going to cancel my season tickets because they traded Iguchi" posts?

That's my reaction. The guy is hitting .251 with 6 hrs and not exactly been playing stellar defense this season. Then again, I shouldn't be too surprised. The reactions the site got when the Sox trade Olivo and Reed were priceless.

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:35 PM
I AM SO MAD. I HATE THIS SOOO MUCH. :angry::angry::angry:

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:37 PM
So, now we get to have a steady diet of Alex Cintron??? Excuse me while I throw up!

No, no, no. Richar is going to play 2B. He's ready for a look, and he's going to get a chance.

bryPt
07-27-2007, 04:37 PM
pitiful. Uribe is still being thrown out on the field and a hard working Iguchi gets traded for a bag with one ball in it.

Thanks Iguchi for 2005, and thanks for "the play."

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:38 PM
Very sad to see him go. Kenny better know what the hell he's doing...:angry:

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:38 PM
pitiful. Uribe is still being thrown out on the field and a hard working Iguchi gets traded for a bag with one ball in it.

Thanks Iguchi for 2005, and thanks for "the play."

We don't have a replacement for Uribe at this time. That's probably the biggest reason he's still out there.

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:39 PM
I hope we did not get some crappy player. Let me guess, he will pitch in the ML and get sent down. MOST LIKELY!!!! MAN O MAN!!!!! I know Tad was not his best, but still, a dang SINGLE A player. Our AAA pitcher suck!!!!

I AM SORRY FOR YOU GUYS TO READ THIS. I AM JUST SOOOO MAD. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:


WHO IS GONNA PLAY 2ND TODAY? ALEX? HOW BOUT ANY OTHER DAY?!?!?! AAA PLAYER?!!!!1 ANDY???!!!!!!! WHO?!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:39 PM
pitiful. Uribe is still being thrown out on the field and a hard working Iguchi gets traded for a bag with one ball in it.

Thanks Iguchi for 2005, and thanks for "the play."

There's probably no market for Uribe, and we don't have a replacement in the pipeline.

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Very sad to see him go. Kenny better know what the hell he's doing...:angry:

I'm guessing his does NOT!!!

DeadMoney
07-27-2007, 04:40 PM
We don't have a replacement for Uribe at this time. That's probably the biggest reason he's still out there.

Ech ehm...
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/ozzie_guillen_autograph.jpg

:wink:

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:40 PM
Real surprised by the anger in this thread.

This trade is a byproduct of losing, guys and gals. There has to be some changes looking toward 2008 and beyond.

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 04:42 PM
There's probably no market for Uribe, and we don't have a replacement in the pipeline.


Probably????? Uribe is one of the worst everyday position players in baseball right now. There is no market for Uribe as he will soon find out this winter when the Sox don't exercise his option. This move is give Richar a tryout at 2B and then if he isn't ready, at least Kenny knows he needs a 2b this winter. This is by no means a "great" move, but it is about what was realistically expected. And I for one, am very curious to see how this Richar kid works out.

SoxFan78
07-27-2007, 04:43 PM
Real surprised by the anger in this thread.

This trade is a byproduct of losing, guys and gals. There has to be some changes looking toward 2008 and beyond.

I think if the Sox would of gotten more for Iguchi then a Single A pitcher, then this thread might be a little less angry.

But when you have a starting 2B that played his heart out get sent away for somebody who might not even make the team, thats gonna step on some people's toes.

Its not like Kenny had to make this move, thats what makes it even more confusing.

Sockinchisox
07-27-2007, 04:43 PM
I hope we did not get some crappy player. Let me guess, he will pitch in the ML and get sent down. MOST LIKELY!!!! MAN O MAN!!!!! I know Tad was not his best, but still, a dang SINGLE A player. Our AAA pitcher suck!!!!

I AM SORRY FOR YOU GUYS TO READ THIS. I AM JUST SOOOO MAD. :angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:


WHO IS GONNA PLAY 2ND TODAY? ALEX? HOW BOUT ANY OTHER DAY?!?!?! AAA PLAYER?!!!!1 ANDY???!!!!!!! WHO?!!!!!!!!!!!! :angry::angry::angry:

Danny Richar

vegyrex
07-27-2007, 04:43 PM
I don't like this. :angry:

I'm going to miss you Gooch!!! :whiner:

FedEx227
07-27-2007, 04:43 PM
Real surprised by the anger in this thread.

This trade is a byproduct of losing, guys and gals. There has to be some changes looking toward 2008 and beyond.

I don't understand some people's thought processes.

Why would the Phillies (most likely going to the playoffs) give us an established player for a guy we're looking to get rid of who will be a FA at the end of the season?

How much sense would that make on the Phillies side?

Please people, STOP overvaluing our guys. Yeah Iguchi is good, but his value on the market at the trade deadline from a team with no chance of going to the playoffs is not going to be good.

MsSoxVixen22
07-27-2007, 04:43 PM
I'm sad to see Gooch go :whiner: he will be missed. He was definately one of my favorite players. It seems like Philly got a hell of a deal-they get Gooch who's pretty kickass in the field and hits well. Who do we get? A ****ing A pitcher! Good grief it's like we practically gave him away! So far I'm not liking this. I think Uribe and/or Cintron should've gone instead. We'll have to see what this kid Dubee can bring to the table. He can't be any worse than the bullpen guys we already have! Or wait..:unsure:

MsSoxVixen22
07-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Ech ehm...
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/ozzie_guillen_autograph.jpg

:wink:


I still, to this day, do not get Ozzie's man love for Uribe

chisoxwschamps05
07-27-2007, 04:45 PM
Danny Richar
As disappointed as I am by the return we got for Iguchi, I'm really excited to see this kid play. He's a great ballplayer from what I've heard.

SpartanSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:46 PM
Sometimes I think Kenny is trying too hard to be the Danny Ainge of MLB. You would think he would have the upper-hand in a deal like this; the Phillies are desperate for a replacement for Utley. But all you can get is a measly minor league prospect, and a Single-A one at that? Man....:angry:

ChiSoxGirl
07-27-2007, 04:46 PM
I'm pretty damn disappointed in KW for this one. All he could get in return for Iguchi was a measly single A pitching prospect?! http://soxandthecity.net/smilies/angryfire.gif How many "prospects" have we had that never panned out? Scott Ruffcorn, Rod Bolton anyone? http://soxandthecity.net/smilies/rolleyespe9.gif This was definitely one of those deals that will help us a few years from now.

I understand this is the price we're paying for being ten games under .500, but I just thought we could've and would've gotten more for Iguchi. It has to make you wonder if this deal was in the works before Utley went down yesterday, or if this just surfaced within the last 24 hours....

So will they call up Richar and see what he's got, or will we be seeing Cintron everyday at second?

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:46 PM
I think if the Sox would of gotten more for Iguchi then a Single A pitcher, then this thread might be a little less angry.

But when you have a starting 2B that played his heart out get sent away for somebody who might not even make the team, thats gonna step on some people's toes.

Its not like Kenny had to make this move, thats what makes it even more confusing.

Don't you understand that Iguchi is just a rent-a-player? He's only going to play 60 games for the Phillies, and then he's going to test free agency. He isn't worth much.

Look, I like Tadahito too. He was great in 2005 and solid last year. This season, he's having a subpar year. The Sox stink, and they feel like some changes are necessary.

Do you want to stand pat and lose again in 2008?

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:47 PM
I don't understand some people's thought processes.

Why would the Phillies (most likely going to the playoffs) give us an established player for a guy we're looking to get rid of who will be a FA at the end of the season?

How much sense would that make on the Phillies side?

Please people, STOP overvaluing our guys. Yeah Iguchi is good, but his value on the market at the trade deadline from a team with no chance of going to the playoffs is not going to be good.

You and I disagree often, but we're absolutely on the same page this time.

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:47 PM
Danny Richar

Thanks for telling me. Sox AAA guy?

SoxFan78
07-27-2007, 04:48 PM
Don't you understand that Iguchi is just a rent-a-player? He's only going to play 60 games for the Phillies, and then he's going to test free agency. He isn't worth much.

Look, I like Tadahito too. He was great in 2005 and solid last year. This season, he's having a subpar year. The Sox stink, and they feel like some changes are necessary.

Do you want to stand pat and lose again in 2008?

I agree with you, Iguchi isn't worth that much.

But he is worth more then one Single A pitcher.

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:48 PM
I still, to this day, do not get Ozzie's man love for Uribe

Do we have someone else to play SS that I don't know about?

Uribe is alright when he's batting around .250, and playing Gold Glove defense (like in '05). When he's batting .210 and only playing good defense when he feels like it, it's a totally different story.

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Thanks for telling me. Sox AAA guy?

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Danny%20Richar&pos=2B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=462950

soxinem1
07-27-2007, 04:49 PM
Why all the negativity with this trade? What did people expect to get for an under-performing player who has been below average both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, he's been invisible, defensively he's a step behind last year, which itself was a step behind 2005.

We should be forever greatful for his contributiuons in 2005, but honestly, the Sox have not had an All-Star caliber 2B since Ray Durham left.

Additionally, he was obviously not in the plans for next year.

It's time to give Richar a shot and see how he does.

Hopefully, Uribe is next.

TheVulture
07-27-2007, 04:50 PM
***?:angry:

Daver
07-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Do we have someone else to play SS that I don't know about?



Andy Gonzalez.

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:50 PM
I agree with you, Iguchi isn't worth that much.

But he is worth more then one Single A pitcher.

Again, the Phillies are only going to get 150-200 ABs out of Iguchi. That isn't worth a major-leaguer, or a big-league ready prospect.

If the Phillies were going to get a full season out of Tad, or if Tad were under contract for next year, I'd agree with you.

But this is a rent-a-player scenario from Philadelphia's perspective. And they are renting a player who is hitting. 250 with only 29 RBIs this year.

Paulwny
07-27-2007, 04:51 PM
I don't understand some people's thought processes.

Why would the Phillies (most likely going to the playoffs) give us an established player for a guy we're looking to get rid of who will be a FA at the end of the season?

How much sense would that make on the Phillies side?

Please people, STOP overvaluing our guys. Yeah Iguchi is good, but his value on the market at the trade deadline from a team with no chance of going to the playoffs is not going to be good.


Exactly, good post, You'd think the sox just traded Roberto Alomar by some of the comments being made.

SABRSox
07-27-2007, 04:51 PM
I think a lot of people are upset that it's another project pitcher. We don't need more of that. We need position players.

FedEx227
07-27-2007, 04:51 PM
You and I disagree often, but we're absolutely on the same page this time.

Haha, indeed, it's about time we finally agreed on something :tongue:

MCHSoxFan
07-27-2007, 04:52 PM
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Danny%20Richar&pos=2B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=462950

Alright. You convinced me. GO DANNY!!! :smile:

Hey, oeo, thanks for cheering me up.

oeo
07-27-2007, 04:52 PM
Andy Gonzalez.

People around here are not high on Andy, either. So would it make a difference?

I'm all for sending Uribe out the door, but right now, if it's Uribe or Gonzalez, I don't really care. As long as he's not here next year, he can continue doing whatever he does at SS.

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Have the Sox called up Danny Richar yet or not known who they called up?
Thank you Ighuchi for 2005 and I hope you well for the rest of the year and hopefully in the playoffs.



:iguchi:
R.I.P. Iguchi and 2005

decolores9628
07-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Iguchi is only going to start to the Phillies for a month anyways, with Utley coming back in late August/early September.

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 04:54 PM
It's good to come here and see some of the posts from some realistic sox fans. People who expected a legit major leaguer or a top flight prospect for Gooch, don't understand the sport as a whole. I'm sure kenny's been listening for offers for Gooch for a while, and this must be the best one. Smart move by Kenny, so we can now see if Richar is ready or not. If so, boom, thats one less hole to fill this winter. If he's not, then at least Kenny knows he needs a new 2b.

FedEx227
07-27-2007, 04:54 PM
People around here are not high on Andy, either. So would it make a difference?

I'm all for sending Uribe out the door, but right now, if it's Uribe or Gonzalez, I don't really care. As long as he's not here next year, he can continue doing whatever he does at SS.

That's how I am too. I don't like Uribe, but hell I can deal with him until the end of the season. At this point I want to see guys with replacements moved over Uribe. I'm hopefully going to see Richar, now I'm waiting for Sweeney, Fields is already there.

Sockinchisox
07-27-2007, 04:56 PM
Thanks for telling me. Sox AAA guy?

Ya, his stats are (For Charlotte only):

.346 AVG
4 Triples
5 Doubles
5 HR
15 RBI
.400 OBP
.956 OPS
4 SB

Stats for 07 combined are:

.305 AVG
8 Triples
25 Doubles
13 HR
61 RBI
.365 OBP
.870 OPS
8 SB

Doesn't walk too much (38 BB in 400 ABs) and Ks a bit (71 Ks in 400 AB)
but at this point this was a necessary move to find out if they have something in Richar or if they should go out in the offseason and sign someone like Castillo or re-sign Iguchi.

chisoxwschamps05
07-27-2007, 04:57 PM
Alright. You convinced me. GO DANNY!!! :smile:

Hey, oeo, thanks for cheering me up.
Woah, your last post was basically an all caps rant, but all of a sudden you're happy as can be?? :rolleyes:

Richar does look like he's going to be a solid secondbaseman for a while, so hopefully he pans out in this stint that will be coming soon!!

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 04:57 PM
Danny Richar will be starting at either 2nd or short next year for the Sox

WhiteSox1983
07-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Iguchi is a free agent at the end of this miserable season. We arent going to the playoffs, we might as well sell off some of these players for something. Even if its almost nothing that we get in return. Richar looks like he may be a nice fit next year. And whos to say that Gooch wont be back next year. KW had to do somethin to shake things up.

JB98
07-27-2007, 04:58 PM
It's good to come here and see some of the posts from some realistic sox fans. People who expected a legit major leaguer or a top flight prospect for Gooch, don't understand the sport as a whole. I'm sure kenny's been listening for offers for Gooch for a while, and this must be the best one. Smart move by Kenny, so we can now see if Richar is ready or not. If so, boom, thats one less hole to fill this winter. If he's not, then at least Kenny knows he needs a new 2b.

I agree completely.

Sockinchisox
07-27-2007, 05:00 PM
Ozzie has confirmed Richar will be called up and will be making his Major League debut tomorrow.

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 05:01 PM
This is just a small piece building up for the Arod aquisition. :D:

soxinem1
07-27-2007, 05:04 PM
I say Pods is the next to go.

soxfan43
07-27-2007, 05:04 PM
This is just a small piece building up for the Arod aquisition. :D:


If the Sox dump Jose and Uribe and have floyd, fields, richar, owens and maybe sweeney on the team, I think the Sox can afford A-Rod. :cool:

CWSpalehoseCWS
07-27-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't believe Gooch was just handed to Philly. This Doobie guy better be good.

TheVulture
07-27-2007, 05:06 PM
On second thought, this trade does present the potential of pitching staff consisting of both a Dubee and Danks. Once again, KW, stoner sox fans salute you!:rolleyes:

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:07 PM
If the Sox dump Jose and Uribe and have floyd, fields, richar, owens and maybe sweeney on the team, I think the Sox can afford A-Rod. :cool:

Yes they might be able to do that, but whats the point of doing that. Having an all star play with young rookies while he wants to win and the Sox are trying to develop and rebuild. The only thing I can see the Sox wanting A-Rod is for people to keep on buy tickets to come.

oeo
07-27-2007, 05:07 PM
I think a lot of people are upset that it's another project pitcher. We don't need more of that. We need position players.

He's a 20-year-old A pitcher. If by project, you mean develop, then yeah. He's not like the guys that were supposedly major league ready (Aardsma, Sisco, etc.).

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:07 PM
This thread is crazier than the "Nation of Sox" thread. It amazes me how people overvalue players on their favorite teams.

It's plain as day that this trade was made to give Richar a couple of months on the bigs. Now, if that doesn't happen, there is reason to *****. Otherwise, the deal makes sense. Tad has been below average this year. I wish him the best as he is a class act and seems like a great guy.

I also look forward to the millions of posts about bringing Rowand AND Tad back.

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:08 PM
I will be in total shock if A-Rod wears a Sox jersey next year, let alone ever. But I would love to see him on the Sox

JB98
07-27-2007, 05:09 PM
This thread is crazier than the "Nation of Sox" thread. It amazes me how people overvalue players on their favorite teams.

It's plain as day that this trade was made to give Richar a couple of months on the bigs. Now, if that doesn't happen, there is reason to *****. Otherwise, the deal makes sense. Tad has been below average this year. I wish him the best as he is a class act and seems like a great guy.

I also look forward to the millions of posts about bringing Rowand AND Tad back.

That last sentence should be in teal, right? :D:

SABRSox
07-27-2007, 05:09 PM
He's a 20-year-old A pitcher. If by project, you mean develop, then yeah. He's not like the guys that were supposedly major league ready (Aardsma, Sisco, etc.).

But he is another plus arm with major control issues. We don't need that. We need position players.

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:10 PM
That last sentence should be in teal, right? :D:

That sentence was so teal it actually went back to black.

Some high comedy in this thread . . .

TheVulture
07-27-2007, 05:10 PM
It's good to come here and see some of the posts from some realistic sox fans. People who expected a legit major leaguer or a top flight prospect for Gooch, don't understand the sport as a whole. I'm sure kenny's been listening for offers for Gooch for a while, and this must be the best one. Smart move by Kenny, so we can now see if Richar is ready or not. If so, boom, thats one less hole to fill this winter. If he's not, then at least Kenny knows he needs a new 2b.

If a single A middle relief pitcher is the best you can get, why not just hold on to the Gooch? Is he not eligible for a compensation pick?

JB98
07-27-2007, 05:11 PM
That sentence was so teal it actually went back to black.

Some high comedy in this thread . . .

Indeed, indeed. Just wait until KW trades Dye for pitching prospects. Then all hell will really break loose. :cool:

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:11 PM
If a single A middle relief pitcher is the best you can get, why not just hold on to him?

And get nothing? And block Richar from having a couple of months up in the bigs? What would Tad have given us the next 2 months that would have been of value?

jdm2662
07-27-2007, 05:12 PM
If a single A middle relief pitcher is the best you can get, why not just hold on to him?

Why waste a roster spot when you want to give someone else a chance?

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:12 PM
If a single A middle relief pitcher is the best you can get, why not just hold on to him?
Seriously, the Sox could of got a few draft picks instead of a low ball player

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:12 PM
Seriously, the Sox could of got a few draft picks instead of a low ball player

Seriously, they could not have.

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Seriously, they could not have.
How could they of not????

Daver
07-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Seriously, the Sox could of got a few draft picks instead of a low ball player

No they couldn't, they can't offer Iguchi arbitration.

TheVulture
07-27-2007, 05:14 PM
And get nothing? And block Richar from having a couple of months up in the bigs? What would Tad have given us the next 2 months that would have been of value?

As far as I can tell, we basically did get nothing. Wouldn't the sox at least get a compensation pick for Iguchi?

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:14 PM
How could they of not????

It's been explained a million times on WSI and in this very thread. Use the search function. There will be plenty of details about Tad's contract.

EDIT: Daver put it simply right above me. If you want more details, search for it. It's all out there.

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 05:14 PM
And how many draft picks actually make it to the bigs?

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:14 PM
No they couldn't, they can't offer Iguchi arbitration.
Why not??

TheVulture
07-27-2007, 05:15 PM
And how many draft picks actually make it to the bigs?

How many single A middle relief pitchers make it to the bigs? Probably less.

Sockinchisox
07-27-2007, 05:16 PM
As far as I can tell, we basically did get nothing. Wouldn't the sox at least get a compensation pick for Iguchi?

1) They were afraid Iguchi would take the arbitration

2) They NEED to see if Richar can play at this level, NEED NEED NEED NEED NEED to. If he can't then they go get a 2nd basemen WHO COULD STILL BE IGUCHI or someone like Luis Castillo.

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 05:16 PM
How many single A middle relief pitchers make it to the bigs? Probably less.

Quite a few if your in the White Sox farm system.:D:

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:16 PM
Where is this Pitcher going to pitch at? Winston-Salem?

Daver
07-27-2007, 05:18 PM
Why not??

It's in his contract that they can't offer him arbitration.

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:18 PM
1) They were afraid Iguchi would take the arbitration



Wrong. The Sox would not have been allowed to offer him arbitration.

Jurr
07-27-2007, 05:20 PM
At first, you look at this and frown, expecting something better in return for Iguchi than a minor leaguer.
But, I'm with the crowd stating:
A. The Sox are going nowhere this season. Period.
B. The kid Richar deserves a shot to let the Sox know if they need to address 2B next season.
C. Getting rid of Iguchi gets rid of a 'tad' more payroll. (Damn me and damn my pun).
D. If the guy was gone after the season was over (and he could still be re-signed as a free agent), why not get at least SOMETHING in return?

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:20 PM
Wrong. The Sox would not have been allowed to offer him arbitration.
Oh, So who's going to be traded next. I think its going to be Jermaine.

Lip Man 1
07-27-2007, 05:20 PM
I appreciate what Tad did for the Sox in his 2 1/2 years here and wish him well.

Regarding what the Sox got for him, let's be realistic.

The Phillies are RENTING Tad.

They have NO intention of trying to sign him this off season, so they certainly weren't going to give up a lot for him.

That being said it looks like the Sox got another one of those "hard throwing" types.

I certainly hope he works out better then the other "hard throwing" stiffs acquired this past off season.

Lip

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 05:21 PM
Oh, So who's going to be traded next. I think its going to be Jermaine.

Hope so. :smile:

ilsox7
07-27-2007, 05:21 PM
Oh, So who's going to be traded next. I think its going to be Jermaine.

Who knows. I am sure KW has heard plenty of offers. I am also certain all of them (except maybe one for Gar) will set off a riot at WSI.

JB98
07-27-2007, 05:23 PM
Who knows. I am sure KW has heard plenty of offers. I am also certain all of them (except maybe one for Gar) will set off a riot at WSI.

Gar is the only one potentially on the block that we could get a lot of value for. I don't think they'll deal Vazquez.

Man, I would hate to lose Jon, but it might be necessary. We need a SS and an OF, and I don't think Dye and Contreras are going to fetch that.

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:24 PM
Who knows. I am sure KW has heard plenty of offers. I am also certain all of them (except maybe one for Gar) will set off a riot at WSI.
I wonder what it was like when the Sox trade Garcia and McCarthy in the Offseason.

letsgosox1592
07-27-2007, 05:25 PM
Gar is the only one potentially on the block that we could get a lot of value for. I don't think they'll deal Vazquez.

Man, I would hate to lose Jon, but it might be necessary. We need a SS and an OF, and I don't think Dye and Contreras are going to fetch that.
Get Chin-Lung Hu from the Dodger to be the shortstop. I would be very happy with that. But the problem is what would we give up. I say Jermaine and prospect

voodoochile
07-27-2007, 05:25 PM
Not shocked nor really that upset.

The Sox have to start thinking about 2008 and that means finding out who can play on the big league level. I don't know much about Richer, but if the Sox want to give him a shot, now is the time to do it so he isn't breaking in completely next year. If he is a bust or just isn't ready, then the time to find out is now so KW can make any necessary moves this winter without relying on speculation as to whether Richer is ready.

Oh and judging an A-ball pitcher by his stats is simply silly. If he has good stuff, he may develop into a serviceable pitcher. It's a crap shoot and why anyone would think the Phillies (or any team interested in Gooch) would be willing to part with MLB ready pitching prospects is beyond me. The Phillies (or any team interested in Gooch or his like) are in a playoff hunt. They are going to hold on to anyone who might be able to help them the final few months of the season. Trades for reams of top notch prospects don't happen this time of year unless the guy in question is almost a cinch to lock up a playoff slot for the team acquiring him. Gooch isn't. He's at best a stopgap who won't kill the Phillies chances.

Hope Dubee turns into all that and the proverbial bag, but if not, it still clears a spot for Richer and allows KW to make better decisions this off-season.

Frater Perdurabo
07-27-2007, 05:30 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

I really hope Ozzie will give Richar the vast majority of the starts at 2B. There's no point in playing Cintron there. Even if Richar gets hurt, I'd rather see Getz play instead of more Cintron.

ChiSoxFan7
07-27-2007, 05:31 PM
Does anyone else think this will be the last/biggest trade we make?

and

is this the signal that we're gonna let the prospects start to play?

Chicken Dinner
07-27-2007, 05:32 PM
The Knight manager is probably very happy that he has someone else in the pen besides Aardsma, Day, Massset, and Sisco. :o:

anewman35
07-27-2007, 05:36 PM
The Knight manager is probably very happy that he has someone else in the pen besides Aardsma, Day, Massset, and Sisco. :o:

This guy was from A ball, I doubt he'd be assigned to Charlotte.

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2007, 05:37 PM
If Richar doesn't pan out, there are going to be some angry Sox fans. Some will be angry because they think the Sox gave Iguchi away and now have a huge hole at 2B. Others will be upset that KW traded a legitimate future major-leaguer (an OF!) in Aaron Cunningham for Richar.

If Kenny wants to be totally secure in his position, Richar needs to show he's a capable major league player in these next few months.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-27-2007, 05:39 PM
The Sox trade him for the obvious reasons, and I have no problem with that. I didn't expect the Sox to get much in return.

The main reasons to trade him are to save money and to see if someone in their organization (Richar) can play the position. They have to find out now, not two or three months into next year. Important decisions need to be made this offseason.

It is easy to look at the trade from a fan's standpoint and not take into consideration the monetary aspects, but it plays a big part when trying to manage the bottom line. The Sox probably save a million dollars (if a player is paid for only about six months, only getting paid in season, of Iguchi's $3.25-million salary, left for 2007 would be more than $1-million; but I don't know if that number is correct). In any case, it's a lot of savings for a player who they're going to lose anyway in several months. (I didn't want to see him back next year; I think he's fallen off a lot since 2005).

But thanks, Iguchi, for a memorable ride to the top in 2005. You had some big hits and filled a big need at second.

johnny bench
07-27-2007, 05:43 PM
if Richar makes the team, are we stuck with Uribe next year?

Please say no.

JB98
07-27-2007, 05:45 PM
if Richar makes the team, are we stuck with Uribe next year?

Please say no.

I think Uribe's days are numbered.

thedudeabides
07-27-2007, 05:48 PM
It sounds like Utley will be back in a month, then Tad won't see the field. I'm not trying to be snide, I'm just curious, for people who don't think the Sox got enough back in return, what would have been acceptable?

Mr. White Sox
07-27-2007, 05:49 PM
It sounds like Utley will be back in a month, then Tad won't see the field. I'm not trying to be snide, I'm just curious, for people who don't think the Sox got enough back in return, what would have been acceptable?

They did fine. They unloaded his remaining salary and got a guy averaging close to 9 K/9 in single A. He may amount to nothing, or he might be a mop-up guy or something slightly better in a couple of years. Who knows.

It hurts as a fan to see Iguchi go, but the Sox made the right move from a business perspective.

sullythered
07-27-2007, 05:50 PM
It sounds like Utley will be back in a month, then Tad won't see the field. I'm not trying to be snide, I'm just curious, for people who don't think the Sox got enough back in return, what would have been acceptable?
That is certainly a skewed way to look at it. Yes, he will play behind Chase Utley, the best hitter at his position in baseball. That doesn't diminish Iguchi at all. The argument, then, would be that we could have gotten a better deal from any of the 25 or so teams with a 2B who is not clearly better than Gooch.

bridgeportcopper
07-27-2007, 05:55 PM
Did anyone else take a close look at that 2004 draft that was posted earlier in this thread?
36 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=36)181079Ken WilliamsofPlainfield (Ill.) HSIL
49 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=49)181460Dennis Guest2bSt. Joseph's (Ind.) CollegeIN
Kenny Williams Jr., Dennis Guest (I'm guessing, related to Denny Guest Dodge, one of the biggest advertisers on Sox radio), Ozzie Guillen Jr. this year. Are we in the business of drafting friends and family every year? No wonder we haven't had anyone solid come through the system in a while, with the exception of Crede and possibly Fields (and jury is still out on him). Hopefully new scouting director will put an end to that tradition and draft players who have potential, not bloodlines. You may say these low picks are inconsequential, but why not at least use them on prospects rather than relatives.

Jjav829
07-27-2007, 05:55 PM
Oh no! Without Tadahito Iguchi we are doomed!

What an overreaction. You'd think we just traded Chase Utley for a low-A pitcher.

Kenny said no other teams wanted Iguchi. He said Iguchi wouldn't have been traded if Utley wasn't injured yesterday. If you think he's lying, fine, but please explain where the market is for a 32-year-old 2B hitting .251 with a .723 OPS who is only a rent a player. What team is going to give up much for that?

Or let's put it a different way. If the Sox needed a 2B, and I told you we could get a 32-year-old, hitting .251 this year who is only signed through this year, would you want Kenny to give up much more than a low-A ball pitcher?

For those of you complaining, what did you really expect to get in return? We weren't going to someone on the level of Lastings Milledge or better. So we got a low-A pitcher. Uhh, yay. Would people be happier if we got a no-name AA pitcher? Or a no-name AAA pitcher?

Thanks for the memories and contributions in 2005, Gooch. Good luck in Philly. Now it's time to see what Richar can do.

thedudeabides
07-27-2007, 05:58 PM
That is certainly a skewed way to look at it. Yes, he will play behind Chase Utley, the best hitter at his position in baseball. That doesn't diminish Iguchi at all. The argument, then, would be that we could have gotten a better deal from any of the 25 or so teams with a 2B who is not clearly better than Gooch.

I'm just saying the Phillies weren't going to give up much, and it appears from the deal they were the only team willing to give up anything. KW isn't passing up a better deal just to make a trade with the Phillies. Many in this thread seem to think we got taken on this deal. If so, what should we have gotten?

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 06:01 PM
This is a good thing guys a good thing. I didn't hear but on WSCR they said Kenny said Iguchi wasn't going anywhere until Utley got hurt. If he would have left after this season, and this is according to the score, we would not have gotten draft picks for Iguchi. It has something to do with the fact he came from japan and how the contracts are structured in such cases. The one thing I will ask is did KW try to package Contreras here for a bigger return? I hope he did and Philly just said no. Also according to B&B with Jesse Rogers that Iguchi through a translator said he would be more than happy to come back next season.

voodoochile
07-27-2007, 06:01 PM
That is certainly a skewed way to look at it. Yes, he will play behind Chase Utley, the best hitter at his position in baseball. That doesn't diminish Iguchi at all. The argument, then, would be that we could have gotten a better deal from any of the 25 or so teams with a 2B who is not clearly better than Gooch.

How many of them would clearly up their championship/playoff chances by obtaining Gooch?

First you have to limit it to the teams with an obvious chance to make the playoffs. Then you have to factor in that Gooch is a 2 month rental in the truest sense of the word. The team acquiring him won't even get draft picks if he leaves in the off-season. They too cannot offer him arbitration.

What is 2 months and probably ONLY two months of Gooch really worth? If you aren't in the playoff hunt it's not worth a damned thing. How many of the playoff teams truly need a 2B right now? Most of them are looking for bullpen help because if Gooch as he currently is playing is a major upgrade for you, you probably aren't in the hunt anyway...

Dan Mega
07-27-2007, 06:02 PM
I guess I was just hoping they'd get a position player instead. :shrug:

Daver
07-27-2007, 06:02 PM
Did anyone else take a close look at that 2004 draft that was posted earlier in this thread?
36 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=36)181079Ken WilliamsofPlainfield (Ill.) HSIL
49 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=49)181460Dennis Guest2bSt. Joseph's (Ind.) CollegeIN
Kenny Williams Jr., Dennis Guest (I'm guessing, related to Denny Guest Dodge, one of the biggest advertisers on Sox radio), Ozzie Guillen Jr. this year. Are we in the business of drafting friends and family every year? No wonder we haven't had anyone solid come through the system in a while, with the exception of Crede and possibly Fields (and jury is still out on him). Hopefully new scouting director will put an end to that tradition and draft players who have potential, not bloodlines. You may say these low picks are inconsequential, but why not at least use them on prospects rather than relatives.

You forgot to mention Ron Schuelers daughter, who was drafted by the Sox, and Jerry Manuel's son.

Jjav829
07-27-2007, 06:06 PM
This is a good thing guys a good thing. I didn't hear but on WSCR they said Kenny said Iguchi wasn't going anywhere until Utley got hurt. If he would have left after this season, and this is according to the score, we would not have gotten draft picks for Iguchi. It has something to do with the fact he came from japan and how the contracts are structured in such cases. The one thing I will ask is did KW try to package Contreras here for a bigger return? I hope he did and Philly just said no. Also according to B&B with Jesse Rogers that Iguchi through a translator said he would be more than happy to come back next season.

Uhh, how much bigger of a return is that really? Hell, it might be a deal breaker.

Gillick: "We'll give you a low-A ball pitcher for Iguchi."

:KW
"What if I add in a 35-year-old pitcher with a 6+ ERA who is currently tied for the most losses in the majors and has two more years at $10 per left on his contract?"

Gillick: *click*

Herbal
07-27-2007, 06:08 PM
Or let's put it a different way. If the Sox needed a 2B, and I told you we could get a 32-year-old, hitting .251 this year who is only signed through this year, would you want Kenny to give up much more than a low-A ball pitcher?

Well put. By all accounts, Richar seems to be hot with the bat now, but does anyone know what he's like with the glove?

voodoochile
07-27-2007, 06:10 PM
This is a good thing guys a good thing. I didn't hear but on WSCR they said Kenny said Iguchi wasn't going anywhere until Utley got hurt. If he would have left after this season, and this is according to the score, we would not have gotten draft picks for Iguchi. It has something to do with the fact he came from japan and how the contracts are structured in such cases. The one thing I will ask is did KW try to package Contreras here for a bigger return? I hope he did and Philly just said no. Also according to B&B with Jesse Rogers that Iguchi through a translator said he would be more than happy to come back next season.

And nothing at present would prevent that. The Phillies aren't going to re-sign him. They've got Utley.

In fact, now the Sox can offer less money than they could before because they aren't bound by the 20% rule. If Gooch doesn't get many offers the Sox might be able to low-ball him and bring him back if they deem it to be a good idea.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 06:10 PM
Did anyone else take a close look at that 2004 draft that was posted earlier in this thread?
36 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=36)181079Ken WilliamsofPlainfield (Ill.) HSIL
49 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=49)181460Dennis Guest2bSt. Joseph's (Ind.) CollegeIN
Kenny Williams Jr., Dennis Guest (I'm guessing, related to Denny Guest Dodge, one of the biggest advertisers on Sox radio), Ozzie Guillen Jr. this year. Are we in the business of drafting friends and family every year? No wonder we haven't had anyone solid come through the system in a while, with the exception of Crede and possibly Fields (and jury is still out on him). Hopefully new scouting director will put an end to that tradition and draft players who have potential, not bloodlines. You may say these low picks are inconsequential, but why not at least use them on prospects rather than relatives.
This team in South Cali once wasted a draft pick. They drafted this no name catcher because he was something like Lasorda's nephew or god child or something. Oh ya he went on to becoming the best offensive catcher in the history of the game. His name Mike Piazza.

Daver
07-27-2007, 06:11 PM
Well put. By all accounts, Richar seems to be hot with the bat now, but does anyone know what he's like with the glove?

Think Ray Durham, with the ability to go to his right a bit better.

JB98
07-27-2007, 06:12 PM
Well put. By all accounts, Richar seems to be hot with the bat now, but does anyone know what he's like with the glove?

I've never seen him in person, but reports are he's decent, but not outstanding. We'll learn more in the weeks to come.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 06:13 PM
When Utley comes back does Iguchi move to third? Can he even play 3rd? Final question will ESPN finally learn his name is Tadahito Iguchi and not Taguchi?

thedudeabides
07-27-2007, 06:13 PM
Did anyone else take a close look at that 2004 draft that was posted earlier in this thread?
36 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=36)181079Ken WilliamsofPlainfield (Ill.) HSIL
49 (http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/xrnd.php?rnd=49)181460Dennis Guest2bSt. Joseph's (Ind.) CollegeIN
Kenny Williams Jr., Dennis Guest (I'm guessing, related to Denny Guest Dodge, one of the biggest advertisers on Sox radio), Ozzie Guillen Jr. this year. Are we in the business of drafting friends and family every year? No wonder we haven't had anyone solid come through the system in a while, with the exception of Crede and possibly Fields (and jury is still out on him). Hopefully new scouting director will put an end to that tradition and draft players who have potential, not bloodlines. You may say these low picks are inconsequential, but why not at least use them on prospects rather than relatives.

This type of nepotism is pretty common in baseball drafts. Piazza was even drafted by the Dodgers because Lasorda was friends with his Dad. .

Lorenzo Barcelo
07-27-2007, 06:14 PM
You forgot to mention Ron Schuelers daughter, who was drafted by the Sox, and Jerry Manuel's son.

I believe that was the same year Fisk's son was in the Draft...Yes, Fisk's son probably didn't amount to anything, but to draft a softball player?!

BeeBeeRichard
07-27-2007, 06:25 PM
In 2005 around this time, we traded a 26-year-old pitching "prospect" with less potential and a less sterling line for the year to San Diego for a less talented, last-contract-year infielder:

Ryan Meaux at Birmingham in '05:
5-2, 2.96 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, 5.5 K/9, 3 SV
Geoff Blum:
World's greatest October hitter in the hours between midnight and 6 a.m.

Seems like these two deals match up talent-for-talent, but you never know how things will turn out in the end. Or at least in Game 3.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 06:28 PM
In 2005 around this time, we traded a 26-year-old pitching "prospect" with less potential and a less sterling line for the year to San Diego for a less talented, last-contract-year infielder:

Ryan Meaux at Birmingham in '05:
5-2, 2.96 ERA, 1.42 WHIP, 5.5 K/9, 3 SV
Geoff Blum:
World's greatest October hitter in the hours between midnight and 6 a.m.

Seems like these two deals match up talent-for-talent, but you never know how things will turn out in the end. Or at least in Game 3.
Ummm Geoff couldn't hold Gooch's jock.

BeeBeeRichard
07-27-2007, 06:33 PM
Ummm Geoff couldn't hold Gooch's jock.

Duh -- read it again. Meaux didn't have the potential of a 21-year-old, so these are parallel, but the talent was inferior on both ends in the '05 trade.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 06:36 PM
Duh -- read it again. Meaux didn't have the potential of a 21-year-old, so these are parallel, but the talent was inferior on both ends in the '05 trade.
Ok ok sorry I intrepreted different.

Mohoney
07-27-2007, 06:53 PM
If KW calls up Richar, and then Ozzie still plays Cintron 30+ times at second, I'm going to be extremely pissed.

Same goes for Andy Gonzalez.

WhiteSox5187
07-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Well...I'm not opposed to moving Iguchi, but god damn, ya gotta get something more than a single A pitcher...the Phillies were desperate for a second baseman and we get a low level pitcher?!?!?! Time will tell, but if I were a betting man, I'd wind up betting that Kenny winds up looking foolish in this trade.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 07:04 PM
Well...I'm not opposed to moving Iguchi, but god damn, ya gotta get something more than a single A pitcher...the Phillies were desperate for a second baseman and we get a low level pitcher?!?!?! Time will tell, but if I were a betting man, I'd wind up betting that Kenny winds up looking foolish in this trade.
No he won't. This wasn't a deal like Garcia or Mccarthy where it was to acquire pleyers to better the team. This was a deal to get something for a player about to reach free agency and to open a spot for a kid who appears ready.

WhiteSox5187
07-27-2007, 07:08 PM
No he won't. This wasn't a deal like Garcia or Mccarthy where it was to acquire pleyers to better the team. This was a deal to get something for a player about to reach free agency and to open a spot for a kid who appears ready.
I think though that we COULD have gotten a guy to improve the team now though...

downstairs
07-27-2007, 07:09 PM
I believe that was the same year Fisk's son was in the Draft...Yes, Fisk's son probably didn't amount to anything, but to draft a softball player?!

I believe, and I could be wrong, that very very late in the draft... you know, pick 50,000 or whatever crazy number it may be at... teams may very well skip their picks. If you got nothin, you got nothin.

So, often you'll see silly picks like this. Why not? She can say "I was drafted by the Chicago White Sox". Its better than skipping the pick and calling it a day.

Thome25
07-27-2007, 07:28 PM
Can we make a trade with someone other than Pat Gillick and the Phillies? It's weird how I live in Phillies country and my favorite team keeps making trades with them.

I wonder if Pat Gillick has some pics of KW doing something he shouldn't be. ( That's why KW always seems to make trades with the Phils......because PG is blackmailing him.)

anewman35
07-27-2007, 07:36 PM
I think though that we COULD have gotten a guy to improve the team now though...

Do you have even the slightest bit of evidence of that?

anewman35
07-27-2007, 07:41 PM
I believe, and I could be wrong, that very very late in the draft... you know, pick 50,000 or whatever crazy number it may be at... teams may very well skip their picks. If you got nothin, you got nothin.



You're right. If you look at http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2007/drafttracker.jsp?p=0&s=30&sc=pick_number&so=&st=number&ft=RD&fv=51, you'll see that there were only 21 picks in the last round. Looks like round 30 was the last round with 30 picks. So if some teams think there's not even anybody worth picking, it's hard to say we're losing much by picking sons of people (and, who knows, some of them might even be decent).

Soxfest
07-27-2007, 07:41 PM
Rotoworld

Phillies acquired second baseman Tadahito Iguchi from the White Sox for RHP Michael Dubee.

Nice to see Phillies GM Pat Gillick making a quick strike here. Iguchi's .251/.340/.382 line this year isn't very impressive, but it still gives him 100 points of OPS over Abraham Nunez and he could improve the rest of the way. The Phillies will play him regularly and could bat him sixth behind Pat Burrell. Considering all they had to give up a lesser relief prospect, this is a steal. Jul. 27 - 5:12 pm et

ThomesHomie
07-27-2007, 07:42 PM
In Kenny we trust..... wait does that still apply now a days ?

Anyone want to bet that Iguchi turns his season around and starts being more productive ?

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 07:50 PM
In Kenny we trust..... wait does that still apply now a days ?

Anyone want to bet that Iguchi turns his season around and starts being more productive ?
I hope he does, doesn't change the fact that there was no market for a second baseman (according to KW), Richar appears ready and we weren't gonna resign Tadahito.

UserNameBlank
07-27-2007, 07:51 PM
In response to the first few pages of posts here, because I couldn't read anymore, what is wrong with you guys? We weren't going to get anything or real value for Tadahito anyway. The most valuable thing we received in that trade was the rest of the season to hand to Richar. You guys shouldn't be expecting anything of value in return from these players. Now we need to do the same exact thing in Erstad, Pods, Cintron, and hopefully Uribe if we can find a starting SS to replace him with.

There are only a few guys on this team that can get us the typeof prospects we need to build with. Hopefully KW trades them and finally, finally sinks this floating turd that is our 2007 season.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 07:54 PM
I hope to hear that we traded Rob Mackowiak to the Cubs for Rocky Cherry very soon.

skobabe8
07-27-2007, 07:57 PM
I have never been disappointed with a KW move until now. It was bound to happen sometime.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 08:00 PM
I have never been disappointed with a KW move until now. It was bound to happen sometime.
Again he had little value in this market, Richar is ready, and Iguchi would not have gotten us any draft picks when he signs somewhere else in the offseason.

russ99
07-27-2007, 08:24 PM
Wrong, wrong and wrong.

Garcia's injury happened this season. He said so himself. Garcia was clearly hurting at the end of last season as his September ERA was only around 2.50.

The Houston Chronicle and Chicago Tribune both reported that the Sox fan-GM of Houston called Kenny inquiring about Garcia.




Prove to me that a team being interested means, 100%, there was no deal made. Tell me why I am wrong to think that a team that is reportedly interested in a pitcher, and then trades for another pitcher soon after, made some kind of offer for that first pitcher.

I wouldn't call the Garcia trade "damn good" on any level because his salary went to our arbitration eligible players and our two free agent signings: Erstad, Hall, Pods, Cintron and Crede. Waste of cash right there.
He also sold low in a high demand mark. If you sold your Enron stock for less than its value, would you be doing backflips when the company went bankrupt? Of course not, because you could've had more when you originally sold it.

Gio Gonzalez's trade value was higher when we first traded him away. That by definition is a loss. How exactly is Gio Gonzalez spending yet another year in AA beneficial to the major league team? It isn't. No spin you can use there. It also doesn't help when the big mouthed GM said he wouldn't trade a starting pitcher unless the return package helped out the major league team. So either he's a hypocrite, the major league team is performing so well they don't need the package, or he screwed up. Which is it?

As a Sox and (when they're not playing the Sox) Astros fan I have to weigh in on this.

Unfortunately, that's all media speculation. The Houston Chronicle and their Moronatti-like columnist Richard Justice (The guy who invented the Roy Oswalt to the Mets rumor last year) especially excels at it.

Truth is the Astros were never interested in Garcia. They were looking for a younger pitcher that they could take a run at signing in FA, like Garland or actual acquisition Jason Jennings (didn't work out too well so far).

The Garcia idea was expanded upon by other Sox fans to imply the Sox (in a bait and switch) could get the same return from the Astros for Garcia as they could for Garland, which was pure nonsense. Once Kenny turned down the Astros offer for Garland (or vice versa), trade talks stopped and the Astros looked elsewhere.

As for the Iguchi deal, the guy we got in return is a project, and since the Phils needed a 2B man, we probably got more than we should. Iguchi's market was pretty low and as stated before the Sox would get no draft compensation by keeping him the rest of the season.

Richar looks ready, let's see what the kid can do. Don't forget, Iguchi could still re-sign with the Sox in the offseason, even though it's unlikely.

I hope this means that tht Sox will sell high on Dye before the deadline.

JB98
07-27-2007, 08:32 PM
I hope to hear that we traded Rob Mackowiak to the Cubs for Rocky Cherry very soon.

I'm real eager to help out the Cubs.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 08:33 PM
I'm real eager to help out the Cubs.
I'm not gonna lie here, I just really like that name Rocky Cherry.:D: