PDA

View Full Version : Why sportwriters are not GMs.


kitekrazy
07-26-2007, 05:30 PM
Some may be crack users tho......

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/another-white-s.html

You know Kenny Williams doesn't want to trade Jon Garland. But the Mariners appear to have joined the Yankees in the pursuit. If Seattle does a deal for Garland, it will probably revolve around outfielder Wladimir Balentien, who has the potential to develop into a big-time power hitter.
Former White Sox assistant GM Dan Evans, now a top assistant to M's GM Bill Bavasi, absolutely loves everything about Garland, including a pitching style that would seem to play very well in Safeco Field. The Mariners match up well with the Sox because they just signed Ichiro Suzuki to an extension and have two top-tier outfield prospects at Triple-A. Adam Jones, 21, is considered the best prospect in Seattle's organization but Balentien, 23, is closing that gap fast.
In 2004 he set an Arizona Rookie League record with 16 home runs and is on his way to a third consecutive All-Star season, this time in the Pacific Coast League. A native of Curacao, he is hitting .310 with 22 homers. The batting average has raised eyebrows as he'd always been a high-strikeout, low-average guy who just seemed to swing for the fences. He's got a right field arm (leading the Texas League with 17 assists a year ago) but enough athleticism to be considered as an option in center field, too. The Mariners have another intriguing prospect in former USC All-American catcher Jeff Clement, who is having a good season at Tacoma but seems stuck behind Kenji Johjima.



An 18 game winner for prospects? Last I heard Veeck no longer owns the team.

getonbckthr
07-26-2007, 05:41 PM
For Adam Jones I will think about it? No Jones no Garland.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2007, 07:08 PM
Kite:

Practically every trade scenario listed here at WSI and in the national media has the Sox trading 'proven' players for 'prospects.'

Personally I hope Kenny does get 'major league' players for major league players but we'll have to wait and see.

Lip

Domeshot17
07-26-2007, 07:09 PM
whats the score dude?

Mr. White Sox
07-26-2007, 07:35 PM
For Adam Jones I will think about it? No Jones no Garland.

Adam Jones and a mid-level prospect or bullpen arm for Garland, if it happened, would be an absolute steal by the White Sox. This guy should be in the majors now; he's the definition of "major-league ready" talent.

(What's the Score?)

santo=dorf
07-26-2007, 07:56 PM
Some may be crack users tho......

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/another-white-s.html

You know Kenny Williams doesn't want to trade Jon Garland. But the Mariners appear to have joined the Yankees in the pursuit. If Seattle does a deal for Garland, it will probably revolve around outfielder Wladimir Balentien, who has the potential to develop into a big-time power hitter.
Former White Sox assistant GM Dan Evans, now a top assistant to M's GM Bill Bavasi, absolutely loves everything about Garland, including a pitching style that would seem to play very well in Safeco Field. The Mariners match up well with the Sox because they just signed Ichiro Suzuki to an extension and have two top-tier outfield prospects at Triple-A. Adam Jones, 21, is considered the best prospect in Seattle's organization but Balentien, 23, is closing that gap fast.
In 2004 he set an Arizona Rookie League record with 16 home runs and is on his way to a third consecutive All-Star season, this time in the Pacific Coast League. A native of Curacao, he is hitting .310 with 22 homers. The batting average has raised eyebrows as he'd always been a high-strikeout, low-average guy who just seemed to swing for the fences. He's got a right field arm (leading the Texas League with 17 assists a year ago) but enough athleticism to be considered as an option in center field, too. The Mariners have another intriguing prospect in former USC All-American catcher Jeff Clement, who is having a good season at Tacoma but seems stuck behind Kenji Johjima.



An 18 game winner for prospects? Last I heard Veeck no longer owns the team.
So no owner has ever traded an 18 game winner for prospect besides Veeck?
:?:

The number of wins by a pitcher is not a good indicator of how well a pitcher pitches. Cliff Lee won 18 games in 2005 by beating the crap out of the Royals and getting a ton of run support. John Danks is 6-7 and Buehrle is 7-6. Do you really think Buehrle has had only one better game than Danks this year?

Patrick134
07-26-2007, 08:06 PM
Some may be crack users tho......

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2007/07/another-white-s.html

You know Kenny Williams doesn't want to trade Jon Garland. But the Mariners appear to have joined the Yankees in the pursuit. If Seattle does a deal for Garland, it will probably revolve around outfielder Wladimir Balentien, who has the potential to develop into a big-time power hitter.
Former White Sox assistant GM Dan Evans, now a top assistant to M's GM Bill Bavasi, absolutely loves everything about Garland, including a pitching style that would seem to play very well in Safeco Field. The Mariners match up well with the Sox because they just signed Ichiro Suzuki to an extension and have two top-tier outfield prospects at Triple-A. Adam Jones, 21, is considered the best prospect in Seattle's organization but Balentien, 23, is closing that gap fast.
In 2004 he set an Arizona Rookie League record with 16 home runs and is on his way to a third consecutive All-Star season, this time in the Pacific Coast League. A native of Curacao, he is hitting .310 with 22 homers. The batting average has raised eyebrows as he'd always been a high-strikeout, low-average guy who just seemed to swing for the fences. He's got a right field arm (leading the Texas League with 17 assists a year ago) but enough athleticism to be considered as an option in center field, too. The Mariners have another intriguing prospect in former USC All-American catcher Jeff Clement, who is having a good season at Tacoma but seems stuck behind Kenji Johjima.



An 18 game winner for prospects? Last I heard Veeck no longer owns the team.


Know your history. 18 game winner types are much more likely to be traded for prospects than for proven stars.

UserNameBlank
07-26-2007, 08:08 PM
Some may be crack users tho......An 18 game winner for prospects? Last I heard Veeck no longer owns the team.

I'd hardly calling dealing proven players for prospects a crackhead move. Didn't we just deal Freddy Garcia last year? That has worked out pretty well.

Kite:

Practically every trade scenario listed here at WSI and in the national media has the Sox trading 'proven' players for 'prospects.'

Personally I hope Kenny does get 'major league' players for major league players but we'll have to wait and see.

Lip

We need to get younger, better, and cheaper. KW can't get young, cheap major league players who are contributing now from a contending team unless he gives them a more productive veteran that acts as a direct replacement and immediate improvement.

Garland has one more year on his contract after this season and is in line for a large raise. If Garland doesn't get extended or re-sign, we get two draft picks and nothing more. His value right now is higher than it will be after this season or at the trade deadline next season, so it makes sense to move him now if the Sox either don't think he'll extend at a reasonable price or if the Sox simply aren't going to want to extend him.

On value, Balantien is a very good prospect. If we could pull off something like Garland + Dye for Balentien + Clement + B pitching prospect I think we would be helping ourselves a lot. Supposedly Hu is rumored to be available in LA for a reliever. Let's say we could pick him up somehow without trading anything more than a reliever and/or one of our SP prospects not named Gio, Egbert, or De Los Santos. Now we can go into 2008 with an OF of Fields-Sweeney-Balentien, an IF of Crede-Hu-Richar-Konerko, with AJ behind the plate and Clement ready to take over in 2009 or midseason 2008 if a trade is made, and a rotation of Buehrle-Vazquez-Danks-and 2 of Eggy/Broadway/Gio/Ugly Boy Floyd/Haeger/FA or new aquistion (assuming Contreras is dumped off on someone). See? All of the sudden we'd be pretty much rebuilt and have some kind of future in front of us. As it is right now things look pretty bleak, especially is KW holds onto Dye, gets nothing for Garland but picks, and we have to wait 2-3 years to see if our draft picks we got in return are worth a damn.

Lip Man 1
07-26-2007, 10:37 PM
User:

Devil's Advocate here...

What if those 'prospects' don't work out... as by far, most don't?

Isn't it better to get guys that you 'know' (as much as humanly possible) can play at the big league level rather then rely on question marks?

I mean weren't these bullpen guys this season supposed to have "it"?

Obviously that didn't work out well did it?

And the other factor that the Sox organization has to take into account is that if the club 'rebuilds' or whatever term is used to describe it, will the fans buy it? Can the Sox risk a bad drop in attendance if the fans don't?

Lip

jabrch
07-26-2007, 11:03 PM
If we trade Garland to the Ms, the deal starts with Adam Jones and Jeff Clement.

Balentine can be the third piece, but he's not part A or part B.

TDog
07-26-2007, 11:49 PM
So no owner has ever traded an 18 game winner for prospect besides Veeck?
:?:

The number of wins by a pitcher is not a good indicator of how well a pitcher pitches. Cliff Lee won 18 games in 2005 by beating the crap out of the Royals and getting a ton of run support. John Danks is 6-7 and Buehrle is 7-6. Do you really think Buehrle has had only one better game than Danks this year?

The Cincinnati Reds once traded a prospect, acquired in the Rule 5 draft, for a pitcher who had won 246 games in nine seasons. Bill Veeck wasn't even born when that deal was made. The prospect, Christy Mathewson, went on to win 373 games. Contemporary sources confirm his career win total was a good indication of how well he pitched.

Nonetheless, trading high-priced veterans for prospects is the M.O. of the second coming of Bill Veeck. It's baseball on the cheap. Once in a while, you can get a LaMarr Hoyt out to the deal. The reality, though, is the White Sox will need five starters, although some posters advocate going to a four-man rotation. I don't believe trading Garland or Vazquez for prospects would make the White Sox a better team next year.

Railsplitter
07-27-2007, 08:20 AM
Sportwriters? They seem to be journalism majors who took the sportswriting job becuase it was the only one available.

wdelaney72
07-27-2007, 08:46 AM
Plain and simple... if Kenny trades Garland it is because Garland has indicated that he's not going to be as cooperative as Buehrle was in an extension... and it this point in Garland's contract, it better be for MLB talent, not prospects. Prospects only when he's a soon-to-be free agent, you're not in the playoffs and you KNOW he's going to hit free agency.

voodoochile
07-27-2007, 09:22 AM
If KW trades JG for mere prospects, I would imagine it's because he doesn't trust this "shoulder knot" issue that has been plaguing JG this season.

Otherwise, I'd be surprised to see Garland traded. The Sox have a solid 4 man rotation next year at least with Garland back. KW has proven he values the starting rotation over any other aspect of the team. It would take a great deal to get him to change that philosophy I would think.

SBSoxFan
07-27-2007, 11:33 AM
If KW trades JG for mere prospects, I would imagine it's because he doesn't trust this "shoulder knot" issue that has been plaguing JG this season.

Otherwise, I'd be surprised to see Garland traded. The Sox have a solid 4 man rotation next year at least with Garland back. KW has proven he values the starting rotation over any other aspect of the team. It would take a great deal to get him to change that philosophy I would think.

I agree. In addition, the shoulder knot was an issue last year. That's not the kind of pitcher the Sox would give 4 years to. Would they offer 3 more? If so, would JG even accept it? If the thinking is no, then JG would get traded while certainly depleting the rotation.

Can't say I'm all that comfortable with, as a worst case scenario, Danks moving up to #3 behind Buehrle and Vazquez and filling out 4 and 5 with whoever.