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Lip Man 1
07-23-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm a little surprised it got to this point. Maybe there was more going on behind the scenes.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070723soxbits,1,311.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

balke
07-23-2007, 11:46 PM
Man, why would the Sox bring Pablo back. That was a nasty injury, and the season is ova.


Sounds like sour grapes. I think there might be more blame with developement than drafting of talent over the past few seasons though.

Lip Man 1
07-23-2007, 11:58 PM
According to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune there have been a few scouts who have told him that something happens to Sox prospects when they get past Double A...it could be the managers and coaches at the Triple A level.

I know here at WSI a few years ago some folks from Charlotte posted some threads that were critical of Razor Shines for example.

Lip

UserNameBlank
07-24-2007, 12:00 AM
According to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune there have been a few scouts who have told him that something happens to Sox prospects when they get past Double A...it could be the managers and coaches at the Triple A level.

I know here at WSI a few years ago some folks from Charlotte posted some threads that were critical of Razor Shines for example.

Lip
What did they say about him?

Lip Man 1
07-24-2007, 12:05 AM
User:

I don't remember exactly but I think it went along the lines that he was arrogant and lazy when it came to the players he was supposed to be working with. Some of the comments, if memory serves, were pretty strong about the lazy part.

Like I said it was two maybe three years ago, I don't know, maybe it's possible to search for his name and come up with them.

Lip

Ziggy S
07-24-2007, 12:26 AM
It's a good thing Wally Backman was let go, right?

DSpivack
07-24-2007, 12:30 AM
User:

I don't remember exactly but I think it went along the lines that he was arrogant and lazy when it came to the players he was supposed to be working with. Some of the comments, if memory serves, were pretty strong about the lazy part.

Like I said it was two maybe three years ago, I don't know, maybe it's possible to search for his name and come up with them.

Lip

That have anything to do with the fact that he's with the major league team now?

WhiteSox5187
07-24-2007, 12:51 AM
I think it's clear that Shaffer was just Kenny's scapegoat...I've also heard from other people in baseball that Kenny is a very difficult person to work with. I think the real shock here though is that these comments by Shaffer were made on the Mike North morning show. It is very unlike Mike North to get Sox players and officials into arguements.

spiffie
07-24-2007, 08:23 AM
According to Mark Gonzales of the Tribune there have been a few scouts who have told him that something happens to Sox prospects when they get past Double A...it could be the managers and coaches at the Triple A level.

I know here at WSI a few years ago some folks from Charlotte posted some threads that were critical of Razor Shines for example.

Lip
But our resident expert said that Razor Shines should replace Ozzie immediately!

Fenway
07-24-2007, 08:26 AM
You have to wonder if Shaffer was pleading to draft clients of Scott Boras and was not allowed to.

SoxxoS
07-24-2007, 09:08 AM
Duane, to me, seems like a guy that was content with his position, and wanted to take less risks in order to not get fired. Broadway, Ring, McCollough et al where all high floor, low ceiling guys. If those guys turned out to make it to the majors, they weren't going to be stars, but at least they made the show when the draft evaluation process starts.

And it says something when guys don't get hired immediately. He might be taking some time off, of course, but lets see where his next job is - That will tell you how the other baseball people view his baseball skill. My guess is he won't have a role nearly as high as he had with the Sox.

Kind of like how incompetent managers Bevington and Manuel didn't get other managing jobs - b/c they weren't good managers.

You had to go Duane.

Medford Bobby
07-24-2007, 09:21 AM
I caught some of the Mike North interview online, and if you can stomach North the complete Shaffer interview is on The Score website.:o:

TornLabrum
07-24-2007, 09:41 AM
Kind of like how incompetent managers Bevington and Manuel didn't get other managing jobs - b/c they weren't good managers.

Au contraire on Bevington. He was managing as recently as last year for the Edmonton Cracker Cats of the Northern League. Of course he did resign about a month into the season after his participation in an on-field brawl.

thedudeabides
07-24-2007, 09:51 AM
Au contraire on Bevington. He was managing as recently as last year for the Edmonton Cracker Cats of the Northern League. Of course he did resign about a month into the season after his participation in an on-field brawl.

:o:

I don't know what else to say.

GoSox2K3
07-24-2007, 08:27 PM
I find it hard to believe that Shaffer was the only one at fault for our performance. Sure, it's legitimate to question his draft picks. But, what about the people responsible for developing these players into major leaguers. Seems like the Sox have really done an awful job in getting players to jump to the majors.

....and once they're up in the majors, why is it that the Sox for years have made many AAA call-ups from other team look like Cy Young.

If Shaffer is the only guy to take the fall in a Sox management shakeup, then he truely is a scapegoat.

alohafri
07-24-2007, 09:25 PM
I find it hard to believe that Shaffer was the only one at fault for our performance. Sure, it's legitimate to question his draft picks. But, what about the people responsible for developing these players into major leaguers. Seems like the Sox have really done an awful job in getting players to jump to the majors.

....and once they're up in the majors, why is it that the Sox for years have made many AAA call-ups from other team look like Cy Young.

If Shaffer is the only guy to take the fall in a Sox management shakeup, then he truely is a scapegoat.

Shaffer was a boob. What does he have to show for his years in the organization? Most of the WS team was a result of trades, not his draft picks. It was about time!

Taliesinrk
07-24-2007, 09:34 PM
Au contraire on Bevington. He was managing as recently as last year for the Edmonton Cracker Cats of the Northern League. Of course he did resign about a month into the season after his participation in an on-field brawl.

When he went at it with the opposing manager... that was awesome.

A.T. Money
07-24-2007, 11:42 PM
When he went at it with the opposing manager... that was awesome.

I believe he duked it out with Phil Garner when he was managing the Brewers.

Lip Man 1
07-25-2007, 12:28 PM
July 22, 1995 - In a game in Chicago then Brewers manager Phil Garner and then White Sox manager Terry Bevington get into a fist swinging brawl near the third base bag. The brawl was touched off when Ozzie Guillen shoved Jeff Cirillo. Garner who managed Milwaukee from 1992 to 1999 had incidents with the club before. Many of those were prompted by some of his acerbic comments including refusing to refer to the Sox by name, using the moniker ‘big city’ The Sox would win this day 4 - 2.

Lip

HotelWhiteSox
07-26-2007, 01:24 PM
http://www.northtonorth.com/pages/soundclips/Bevington.mp3

Lip Man 1
07-26-2007, 03:09 PM
An item has just come across the Tribune 'Hardball' area posted by Mark Gonzales.

This may or may not have any connection with the Shaffer situation. Apparently Roland Hemond has taken a position as a special assistant with the Diamondbacks.

Now Roland was a special assistant to Kenny the past few years, last year for example I met with him in Great Falls where he was evaluating the rookie league talent.

I expected to do this again with him this season but he said the Sox didn't have him doing that as much and wouldn't be in Montana. :?:

I didn't put two and two together until this item popped up.

What's strange about the blurb is that Mark Gonzales says that Roland will still be representing the White Sox at events like Sox - Fest.

I thought there was a rule that you can't work for two major league organizations at the same time? (although that may only apply to certain positions...)

Anyway I'll be checking in with Roland to see what is going on, but if he is in fact gone, the Sox have lost a remarkable man with decades of baseball knowledge and sage advice.

Advice that Kenny may badly need this off season when he tried to fix this mess.

Lip

Vernam
07-26-2007, 07:27 PM
This may or may not have any connection with the Shaffer situation. Apparently Roland Hemond has taken a position as a special assistant with the Diamondbacks.Lip, any chance this was just a voluntary move by Hemond? Pulling down a part-time salary while semi-retired in Arizona doesn't sound like a bad deal. But I'd be bummed if he was shown the door. IMO, he deserves as much credit as Dick Allen for the Sox not leaving town in the early 70s. I got to tell him that at a SoxFest, and he was modest or even uncomfortable with the praise. Quite a gentleman, and I hate to see him go.

Vernam

Lip Man 1
07-26-2007, 10:47 PM
Vernam:

I don't know. I've put in a call to him and some other contacts. I'll try to see what is shaking out in the next few days.

I know that he did have some responsibilities with Kenny and the organization including evaluating the minor league managers and coaching staffs to make sure they were teaching the kids properly. He had to fill out forms and send them in to Dave Wilder.

Lip