PDA

View Full Version : Sox interested in Wily Mo?!?!?!


IceczMan
07-23-2007, 10:41 PM
Per Espn.com

Cutting their losses
Jul 23 - The Red Sox have had talks with the White Sox about a deal that would send fourth outfielder Wily Mo Pena to Chicago, the Newark Star-Ledger reports. But before they trade Pena, Boston would like to acquire Pena's replacement. Oakland's Bobby Kielty has been mentioned as a possibility.


I'm at a loss. Does this make sense to anyone? :o:

oeo
07-23-2007, 10:43 PM
I'm at a loss. Does this make sense to anyone? :o:

Sure...he'd come cheap, is only 25, and can still become a great power hitter with some actual playing time (and we have plenty of that to give out). This is a deal that could make Theo look real stupid a year down the road.

CLR01
07-23-2007, 10:45 PM
Will they take Terrero or Gonzalez?

GAsoxfan
07-23-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm at a loss. Does this make sense to anyone? :o:

Depends on what they would give up in return.

IceczMan
07-23-2007, 10:49 PM
Depends on what they would give up in return.


If these talks are serious, I would hope not much. I remember the game on saturday the announcers were talking about how BoSox fans were really disappointed in his play this season.

Mr. White Sox
07-23-2007, 10:50 PM
Depends on what they would give up in return.

Contreras or MacDougal for Wily Mo makes sense, as does Dye for Wily Mo + a hi-level prospect (Bowden). There is no way KW should have to overpay for Wily E...

oeo
07-23-2007, 10:53 PM
If these talks are serious, I would hope not much. I remember the game on saturday the announcers were talking about how BoSox fans were really disappointed in his play this season.

The guy hasn't even gotten any playing time. Jerry Owens has spent most of the year in AAA (and even in his time here, was not starting until lately) and has only 4 less ABs.

EDIT: Actually, after today, the same.

balke
07-23-2007, 11:00 PM
.310 OBP, and can't hit lefties. He can hit hr's though, yay! blah.

UserNameBlank
07-23-2007, 11:03 PM
If the Sox can move Thome for a top prospect and a reliever or something like that, Willy Mo would be a nice cheap pickup as a DH. Let him rack up his 35-40 HR's in the Cell and then ship him off for something else because his contact rate sucks ass and he doesn't walk.

balke
07-23-2007, 11:05 PM
If the Sox can move Thome for a top prospect and a reliever or something like that, Willy Mo would be a nice cheap pickup as a DH. Let him rack up his 35-40 HR's in the Cell and then ship him off for something else because his contact rate sucks ass and he doesn't walk.

I know the bullpen is in peril, but a move like that would cripple the offense.

Domeshot17
07-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Dye won't be going to Boston. I dont know which paper I read it on (or maybe on here even) but I know Kenny has said he respects his players too much to send them to a place where they will be a role player. Boston is set in the corners and DH so Dye would not get regular at bats. Boston is also deep in the rotation especially with Schilling coming back, so the only thing I could see is possibly an RP. If it is for a starter I wonder if the Sox could pull a Craig Hansen and Pena for Contreras swap.

oeo
07-23-2007, 11:13 PM
I know the bullpen is in peril, but a move like that would cripple the offense.

I disagree. Pena is only 25 years old...I don't think he's fully developed yet. He was brought up when he was 21, and has not gotten any consistent playing time throughout his short career.

He's not a guy I would want to acquire if we're in contention right now, to help the offense. Since we're out of contention...why not? Give him some consistent playing time and let him actually mature as a hitter instead of having him rot on the bench (like Boston is doing).

ilsox7
07-23-2007, 11:20 PM
If the Sox can move Thome for a top prospect and a reliever or something like that, Willy Mo would be a nice cheap pickup as a DH. Let him rack up his 35-40 HR's in the Cell and then ship him off for something else because his contact rate sucks ass and he doesn't walk.

Thome is not going anywhere.

michned
07-23-2007, 11:21 PM
If these talks are serious, I would hope not much. I remember the game on saturday the announcers were talking about how BoSox fans were really disappointed in his play this season.

Listening to the Red Sox pregame call-in shows on XM this past weekend, it seems Willy Mo is the most despised player playing in Boston right now. Just what the White Sox need - another guy with no fundamentals.

oeo
07-23-2007, 11:23 PM
Listening to the Red Sox pregame call-in shows on XM this past weekend, it seems Willy Mo is the most despised player playing in Boston right now. Just what the White Sox need - another guy with no fundamentals.

Boston despises a lot of people. Why do you think they have guys fall flat over there all the time? He's still a kid, and he's sitting on the bench, what do they expect?

With a change of scenery and the pressure is off, I think he could succeed here.

balke
07-23-2007, 11:34 PM
I disagree. Pena is only 25 years old...I don't think he's fully developed yet. He was brought up when he was 21, and has not gotten any consistent playing time throughout his short career.

He's not a guy I would want to acquire if we're in contention right now, to help the offense. Since we're out of contention...why not? Give him some consistent playing time and let him actually mature as a hitter instead of having him rot on the bench (like Boston is doing).

Replace Thome with a guy who hasn't established himself as a starter on any team. That was the suggestion. That would cripple the offense.

oeo
07-23-2007, 11:40 PM
Replace Thome with a guy who hasn't established himself as a starter on any team. That was the suggestion. That would cripple the offense.

Ah, okay. I was defending Pena as our leftfielder, which you seem against anyway.

UserNameBlank
07-23-2007, 11:46 PM
Replace Thome with a guy who hasn't established himself as a starter on any team. That was the suggestion. That would cripple the offense.
Not necessarily because it would depend on a few things:

1. The return Thome could bring. If he nets say a SS and/or an OF that are offensive upgrades, we spread out production a bit. If he nets us a good pitcher we help the offense by putting less pressure on them to score a billion runs.

2. Thome's health is going to be questionable at best throughout the remainder of his contract. Even though he's playing regularly now, I highly doubt those injuries and back issues are 100% gone. They'll pop up again and he'll miss time, which will again open a giant hole in the offense.

3. Dollars saved could be put towards other areas that help the team, and anything that helps the team as a whole also helps the offense. Willy Mo makes nothing and the return from Thome would most likely be prospects and/or young major leaguers since we need players who we can control for several years.

All that said, I don't like Willy Mo. I'd take him because I think we could get him cheaply, he could hit a ton of bombs, and then we could ship him off for something better. I wouldn't want him on a contending team, and the only reason I'd want him now is because I don't think we'll be contenders next year. We should stock up for 2009, and Willy Mo could be a smart acquistion to help us get a player we need during the '08 season or during the '08-'09 offseason.

UserNameBlank
07-23-2007, 11:53 PM
^^
Also to add to the above post, Willy Mo would be an upgrade over Thome against LHP as strange as that may sound. Thome is obviously better vs. RHP, but the power would be very similar. Basically, we'd lose Thome's walks against RHP and gain prospects and salary relief. It's actually a pretty smart move, IMO. Especially considering our situation.

Domeshot17
07-24-2007, 12:09 AM
No way. Thome is heads above Pena and comes very reasonably priced because the Phils are eating some of his salary. I dont care if he is a little better vs lefties (Pena over Thome) He is WORLDS behind Thome vs righties. Thome has an unreal .510 OBP vs RHP. That means Jim Thome gets on base more than he gets out vs RHP, which is SICK. I would not argue with bringing in Pena to platoon Thome with and keep him healthier and fresher, but in no way would I replace Thome with Willy Mo.

EDIT: breaking down the math, if Pena got 600 at bats this year, he would strike out 243 times. Im not saying hes not a decent gamble, but in no way can you replace Thome for him

A. Cavatica
07-24-2007, 12:39 AM
Here's what I think of the Wily Mo idea:
:puking:

He's a DH -- and not a very good one.

balke
07-24-2007, 08:26 AM
I'd rather have Carl Everett. /mostly teal

Over By There
07-24-2007, 08:26 AM
I know a lot of people on this site are down on WMP and I see why - he's developed a reputation as an all-or-nothing power hitter and a hack in the outfield. But I think he'd be worth a flier under the right circumstances. I know this is vague, but if we're going to unload a veteran position player, I'd take WMP as a project along with a pitching prospect or two. We could give him the opportunity to play most every day down the stretch and see what he can really do. Like others have said, he's never gotten a chance to play every day - not with Boston and I believe he was part of a platoon situation in Cincinnatti.

Tragg
07-24-2007, 09:03 AM
I'd take a flyer on him cheap.

soxinem1
07-24-2007, 02:41 PM
He doesn't get a lot of playing time because BOS figured out what CIN did: He's a total butcher in the OF and other than launching a few bombs, has not demonstrated he can hit MLB pitching on a daily basis.

We do not have the time to just put him in the line up and see what happens, like TAM did with Carlos Pena. Pena was always reputed to be an excellent defensive 1B. He just never developed offensively until this year.

I really doubt Wily Mo will ever be another David Ortiz-type deal, which is exactly what BOS thought when they got him.

We already have a DH who cannot hit lefties and K a ton, do we need two?

Fenway
07-24-2007, 02:47 PM
:praying:

The Wily Mo to Chicago story hasn't shown up here...yet

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/thebuzz/

but Oakland Athletics designated outfielder Bobby Kielty for assignment Monday night

balke
07-24-2007, 02:49 PM
Wow, I guess everyone is going to Boston.

thomas35forever
07-24-2007, 03:50 PM
If Fenway is not that impressed with him, why should anyone in Chicago be?

munchman33
07-24-2007, 04:04 PM
He'd be an interesting option in LF. He could still develop. And he's shown a lot more promise in the past than some of our other outfielders.

Flight #24
07-24-2007, 04:20 PM
He'd be an interesting option in LF. He could still develop. And he's shown a lot more promise in the past than some of our other outfielders.

It kind of falls under "beggars can't be choosers". At this point, the OF for 2008 looks like Owens and ???????. And all of the options for the other 2 slots have significant question marks. Assuming he comes cheaply, this guy would at least provide another lottery ticket to try and fill the OF.

At this stage, he hasn't shown that he can be a regular player. He's still got holes in his swing and he can't play D worth a crap for the most part. But he's only 25, and about a year ago he was still viewed as having a shot at being a decent player. The real issue IMO is that per MLB4U, he has 4+ years of service time as of the start of this year, which means he'd be an FA after 2008 (or in other words, if he comes around in '08, he'll hit the market or want decent $$$ which prevents him from being a real mid-long term option as a cheap OF).

For a rental on Iguchi? Sure. For a guy like Bukvich? OK. But I'm not even sure I'd give up Sisco for him since young failed LHPs with ~3yrs to FA are more valuable than young failed OFs with 1 yr to FA.

santo=dorf
07-24-2007, 04:21 PM
Sure...he'd come cheap, is only 25, and can still become a great power hitter with some actual playing time (and we have plenty of that to give out). This is a deal that could make Theo look real stupid a year down the road.
Wily Mo doesn't get any playing time because he is such a liability in the OF.

He's like a better version of Joe Borchard, and he still sucks.

Snots Snopek
07-24-2007, 06:25 PM
Wily Mo banged 45 HR and 117 RBI in 647 official AB during his final 2 seasons in Cincinnati (2004 and 2005). Under Walker's expert tutelage, he is capable of busting 50 dingers in '08 as an everyday White Sox starter. Snots says go get 'em for his potential upside since he's only 25.

Dan Mega
07-24-2007, 06:26 PM
Wily Mo banged 45 HR and 117 RBI in 647 official AB during his final 2 seasons in Cincinnati (2004 and 2005). Under Walker's expert tutelage, he is capable of busting 50 dingers in '08 as an everyday White Sox starter. Snots says go get 'em for his potential upside since he's only 25.

Based off the entirety of the hitting in the first half I have no faith in Walker.

A low OBP/AVG with power who can't play D? Sounds right up our alley.

roadrunner
07-25-2007, 12:07 AM
He was the youngest player in the league at age 20 in 2002 so you have to take his age into consideration when looking at his numbers. B-Ref's similar batters through age 24 for wily mo:


Jesse Barfield (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/barfije01.shtml) (969)
Phil Plantier (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/plantph01.shtml) (960)
Bobby Thomson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomsbo01.shtml) (958)
Billy Conigliaro (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/conigbi01.shtml) (952)
George Hendrick (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hendrge01.shtml) (947)
Bill Melton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/meltobi01.shtml) (947)
Cory Snyder (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/snydeco02.shtml) (945)
Pat Burrell (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burrepa01.shtml) (943)
Austin Kearns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kearnau01.shtml)
Pete Incaviglia (http://www.baseball-reference.com/i/incavpe01.shtml)Seems like a solid enough list to me. Certainly worth a shot to see whether he develops into a Barfield/Hendrick/Melton/Burrell or flattens out as a Snyder/Incaviglia (both of whom have had decent years).

soxinem1
07-25-2007, 10:17 AM
He was the youngest player in the league at age 20 in 2002 so you have to take his age into consideration when looking at his numbers. B-Ref's similar batters through age 24 for wily mo:

Jesse Barfield (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/barfije01.shtml) (969)
Phil Plantier (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/plantph01.shtml) (960)
Bobby Thomson (http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/thomsbo01.shtml) (958)
Billy Conigliaro (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/conigbi01.shtml) (952)
George Hendrick (http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hendrge01.shtml) (947)
Bill Melton (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/meltobi01.shtml) (947)
Cory Snyder (http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/snydeco02.shtml) (945)
Pat Burrell (http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/burrepa01.shtml) (943)
Austin Kearns (http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/kearnau01.shtml)
Pete Incaviglia (http://www.baseball-reference.com/i/incavpe01.shtml)Seems like a solid enough list to me. Certainly worth a shot to see whether he develops into a Barfield/Hendrick/Melton/Burrell or flattens out as a Snyder/Incaviglia (both of whom have had decent years).

Solid K machines other than the few bolded (except Jesse, he could K with the best of them), who were good players. The rest were/are underachievers. Do you want to add another to the list?

roadrunner
07-25-2007, 12:46 PM
Solid K machines other than the few bolded (except Jesse, he could K with the best of them), who were good players. The rest were/are underachievers. Do you want to add another to the list?

No, you missed my point. There's upside as well as downside. Overall, provided you don't give up too much it's probably worth taking a flyer on him. I'm not saying he's a great player just that there's some potential for him to be a decent power hitter. If nothing else, I'm more impressed with his potential than our current options.

GAsoxfan
07-25-2007, 09:37 PM
Get Theo on the phone...Contreras for Pena.

the1tab
07-25-2007, 09:43 PM
Get Theo on the phone...Contreras for Pena.

Do you think Boston wants anything to do w/ Jose and his 18 arm slots each inning? If they would take Jose for Pena, pull that trigger.

GAsoxfan
07-25-2007, 09:44 PM
Do you think Boston wants anything to do w/ Jose and his 18 arm slots each inning? If they would take Jose for Pena, pull that trigger.

Notice the teal.