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Taliesinrk
07-23-2007, 09:12 PM
I realize there has been a lot of discussion about this lately (especially with all the FA OFs this upcoming season).. but what about this OF for '08:

LF - Eric Byrnes
CF - Jerry Owens
RF - Aaron Rowand

I realize that JO started off terribly, but even just watching the game tonight has highlighted what kind of player he could develop into. Two nice catches, and ANOTHER infield single (kept the inning alive to tie the game). He has nice ABs at the top of the order, even if he still Ks a bit.

I also won't even bring up the AR argument.

EDIT: Sorry, I knew this belonged in WTS..

letsgosox1592
07-23-2007, 09:17 PM
Wheres Ryan Sweeney....and of course you cant foreget about Brian Anderson.

Palehose Pete
07-23-2007, 09:18 PM
If that was our outfield, I'd be happy.

Aside from Byrnes' opinion of the Sox fans that is...

That said, it's going to cost a pretty penny to get someone like Rowand and Byrnes in the same OF. I don't think it will happen.

Here's a question: If you only could choose one, who would you pick?

Eric Byrnes
Aaron Rowand
Torii Hunter
Andruw Jones

While it may seem obvious, keep in mind that Hunter isn't a spring chicken, Jones might have lost a step, this season is Byrnes' first solid season in a while and Rowand, well, let's say some people think that he's due to come back to earth.

All that said, who would you want?

Sorry if this is a hijack of sorts...

letsgosox1592
07-23-2007, 09:19 PM
If that was our outfield, I'd be happy.

Aside from Byrnes' opinion of the Sox fans that is...

That said, it's going to cost a pretty penny to get someone like Rowand and Byrnes in the same OF. I don't think it will happen.

Here's a question: If you only had to choose one, who would you pick?

Eric Byrnes
Aaron Rowand
Torrii Hunter
Andruw Jones

While it may seem obvious, keep in mind that Hunter isn't a spring chicken, Jones might have lost a step, this season is Byrnes' first solid season in a while and Rowand, well, let's say some people think that he's due to come back to earth.

All that said, who would you want?

Sorry if this is a hijack of sorts...


Thats an easy pick for me. Andruw Jones. Even though hes struggled this year, he is still in his prime and he is the most proven offensively and hes a great outfielder.

Taliesinrk
07-23-2007, 09:21 PM
If that was our outfield, I'd be happy.

Aside from Byrnes' opinion of the Sox fans that is...

That said, it's going to cost a pretty penny to get someone like Rowand and Byrnes in the same OF. I don't think it will happen.

Here's a question: If you only could choose one, who would you pick?

Eric Byrnes
Aaron Rowand
Torii Hunter
Andruw Jones

While it may seem obvious, keep in mind that Hunter isn't a spring chicken, Jones might have lost a step, this season is Byrnes' first solid season in a while and Rowand, well, let's say some people think that he's due to come back to earth.

All that said, who would you want?

Sorry if this is a hijack of sorts...

No, it's legit. I go with Rowand, but only because of what I estimate as projected salary. If we were the Yankees, it'd be Hunter. But alas, we're not.

Also, I had been thinking of the OF with Rowand, Owens, and Sweeney, but Byrnes sounded real nice too..

letsgosox1592
07-23-2007, 09:25 PM
My 2008 outfield would be Jerry Owens in Left, Andruw Jones in Center and Ryan Sweeney in Right.

Taliesinrk
07-23-2007, 09:29 PM
My 2008 outfield would be Jerry Owens in Left, Andruw Jones in Center and Ryan Sweeney in Right.

I just can't see that happening. One, why would Jones sign here? And two, would it really be wise to pay him the money he'll have coming to him?

We know he won't be looking for a 2 or 3 year deal.

letsgosox1592
07-23-2007, 09:32 PM
I just can't see that happening. One, why would Jones sign here? And two, would it really be wise to pay him the money he'll have coming to him?

We know he won't be looking for a 2 or 3 year deal.

His value has to be done some you would think and he might know his values down and sign a 1 year deal with player option to get his value up for a massive contract

Palehose Pete
07-23-2007, 09:32 PM
Cool.

I see Jones going to the Yanks for some reason. I would love to see him on the Sox, though. I think that he's still relatively young, and hopefully this season has driven down his asking price a little bit.

Hunter on the Sox? Hmmm... well, if Damon can go to the Yanks, then anything can happen.

kittle42
07-23-2007, 09:38 PM
If there is more than one rookie or rookie-type (Sweeney, Owens) in that outfield next year, I am going to jump off a ledge.

Flight #24
07-23-2007, 09:51 PM
LF-Owens
CF-Anderson/Sweeney
RF-Kosuke Fukudome

(and SS Alex Rodriguez)

JorgeFabregas
07-23-2007, 10:00 PM
Pods/Owens/Erstad. You know you love it. :o:

We'd have to figure out who would actually play once Pods and Erstad went down, though.

WhiteSox5187
07-23-2007, 10:02 PM
Isn't Jones a Boras client? I think he is and if so, you can forget about him. Hunter is interesting, but as someone has pointed out, he is old and he seems to get hurt a lot. I'll be honest, I don't know a whole lot about Byrnes. Let me get back to you on this one...Rowand is a solid CF defensively and offensively. I don't think he's going to hit .320 year in and year out for us, but I don't think .280 is out of the question. Provides a bit of pop with the bat and doesn't clog the bases. Plus he's still under the radar and could be a great signing. I think we oughta trade Mack and Pods (hopefully he'll give us a good week) and see what Sweeney can do in left. I think we're going to be stuck with JD in right for the end of this year and it can't hurt to see what he wants. So, potentially my '08 Sox outfield would look like this (and it's subject to change at a moment's notice):

RF: JD
CF: Rowand
LF: Sweeney

getonbckthr
07-23-2007, 10:05 PM
I realize there has been a lot of discussion about this lately (especially with all the FA OFs this upcoming season).. but what about this OF for '08:

LF - Eric Byrnes
CF - Jerry Owens
RF - Aaron Rowand

I realize that JO started off terribly, but even just watching the game tonight has highlighted what kind of player he could develop into. Two nice catches, and ANOTHER infield single (kept the inning alive to tie the game). He has nice ABs at the top of the order, even if he still Ks a bit.

I also won't even bring up the AR argument.

EDIT: Sorry, I knew this belonged in WTS..
I won't rip Rowand here but where does the power come from?

Taliesinrk
07-23-2007, 10:19 PM
I won't rip Rowand here but where does the power come from?

literal power or figurative?

oeo
07-23-2007, 10:22 PM
I realize there has been a lot of discussion about this lately (especially with all the FA OFs this upcoming season).. but what about this OF for '08:

LF - Eric Byrnes
CF - Jerry Owens
RF - Aaron Rowand

I realize that JO started off terribly, but even just watching the game tonight has highlighted what kind of player he could develop into. Two nice catches, and ANOTHER infield single (kept the inning alive to tie the game). He has nice ABs at the top of the order, even if he still Ks a bit.

I also won't even bring up the AR argument.

EDIT: Sorry, I knew this belonged in WTS..

That's the only thing that's keeping his average above the Mendoza line. I'm not sold on the guy at all...he's fast, but until he can start hitting more than infield singles (or singles for that matter...where's the XBH?), I don't want him in the outfield next year. I know he's fast, and it would be nice to have his speed, but he needs to become a more complete hitter before given a starting job.

And I will be really surprised if I don't see Sweeney in our outfield next year.

getonbckthr
07-23-2007, 10:23 PM
literal power or figurative?
Homeruns and RBI's.

102605
07-23-2007, 10:24 PM
I liked Byrnes until I read that crap about him saying "White Sox fans are the worst in baseball".

For what the other CF available via free agency will cost, I'd say Rowand brings the best value back for his price.

LF-Owens
CF-Rowand
RF-Kosuke Fukudome

Fukudome might be a pipe dream but I suspect he is going to be a superstar.

Anderson? Sweeney? AAA where they belong getting ready in case one of the MLB OF has to spend any time on the DL.

oeo
07-23-2007, 10:25 PM
Thats an easy pick for me. Andruw Jones. Even though hes struggled this year, he is still in his prime and he is the most proven offensively and hes a great outfielder.

He's lazy both defensively and on the base paths. Not an Ozzie type of player, at all.

I'd take Byrnes because I think he will come the cheapest and still give us good production.

kittle42
07-23-2007, 10:40 PM
He's lazy both defensively and on the base paths. Not an Ozzie type of player, at all.

Yeah. Andy Gonzalez is an Ozzie-type player. Let's keep him.

Rockabilly
07-23-2007, 11:27 PM
My outfielders would be
Fukudome LF
Rowand CF
Sweeney RF

oeo
07-23-2007, 11:36 PM
Yeah. Andy Gonzalez is an Ozzie-type player. Let's keep him.

As a bench player? Sure.

Andruw Jones is like Carlos Lee. He's fat and he's lazy, but he hits homeruns. At least on Lee's part, he hit for average too, you don't even get that from Jones. And he's worth $14+ million, how?

kittle42
07-23-2007, 11:53 PM
My outfielders would be

LF Someone established and better than we have now
CF Someone established and better than we have now
RF Someone established and better than we have now

Nellie_Fox
07-24-2007, 12:05 AM
Rowand is...still under the radar and could be a great signing.You've got to be kidding. Rowand is not "under the radar" anyplace. If anything, he's currently overvalued a lot of places (most especially here.)

UserNameBlank
07-24-2007, 12:05 AM
Please, no Byrnes and no Rowand.

The one guy mentioned who would be a smart acquistion IMO is Fukudome because he won't cost us draft picks. I'd hate to surrender anything for a Byrnes type of player. If we're going to be giving up high pick when we should be rebuilding we should do it for a player who makes more than a marginal difference. With our OF as small as it is, we need hitters out there, not three overachieving CF's.

letsgosox1592
07-24-2007, 02:56 AM
Please, no Byrnes and no Rowand.

The one guy mentioned who would be a smart acquistion IMO is Fukudome because he won't cost us draft picks. I'd hate to surrender anything for a Byrnes type of player. If we're going to be giving up high pick when we should be rebuilding we should do it for a player who makes more than a marginal difference. With our OF as small as it is, we need hitters out there, not three overachieving CF's.

I have never even heard of this guy. Of course he's from Japan but does anyone have any stats about him??

mcp5185
07-24-2007, 05:26 AM
Please, no Byrnes and no Rowand.

The one guy mentioned who would be a smart acquistion IMO is Fukudome because he won't cost us draft picks. I'd hate to surrender anything for a Byrnes type of player. If we're going to be giving up high pick when we should be rebuilding we should do it for a player who makes more than a marginal difference. With our OF as small as it is, we need hitters out there, not three overachieving CF's.

I believe if you have a pick in the top 10 or 15 you don't have to give up your pick when you sign a type A free agent.

RowanDye
07-24-2007, 05:32 AM
Anderson? Sweeney? AAA where they belong getting ready in case one of the MLB OF has to spend any time on the DL.

Two of our starting OFs went on the DL, and Dye was hurt as well, yet Sweeney and Anderson were nowhere to be found.

I realize Anderson is hurt, but why do we continue to give so much playing time to career minor leaguers and utility players?

spiffie
07-24-2007, 10:54 AM
I don't really see a whole lot of future for 2008, so we might as well suck it up and let the three kids have a shot, and really be able to decide which, if any of them, are worth keeping. Unless you're going to go out and try and get Fukudome, go with Sweeney, Anderson, Owens. Give them 600 AB's next year, and then decide what holes we need to fill in 2009.

kittle42
07-24-2007, 12:35 PM
I don't really see a whole lot of future for 2008, so we might as well suck it up and let the three kids have a shot, and really be able to decide which, if any of them, are worth keeping. Unless you're going to go out and try and get Fukudome, go with Sweeney, Anderson, Owens. Give them 600 AB's next year, and then decide what holes we need to fill in 2009.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Throwing away 2008 already? Do you work for the Sox organization?

JB98
07-24-2007, 12:44 PM
I don't really see a whole lot of future for 2008, so we might as well suck it up and let the three kids have a shot, and really be able to decide which, if any of them, are worth keeping. Unless you're going to go out and try and get Fukudome, go with Sweeney, Anderson, Owens. Give them 600 AB's next year, and then decide what holes we need to fill in 2009.

If we have Sweeney, Anderson and Owens in our outfield next season, I won't attend a single game.

That's called throwing in the towel right there.

kittle42
07-24-2007, 12:45 PM
If we have Sweeney, Anderson and Owens in our outfield next season, I won't attend a single game.

That's called throwing in the towel right there.

I have to agree and reiterate my earlier point. This is a ****ing horrible idea.

spiffie
07-24-2007, 01:01 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Throwing away 2008 already? Do you work for the Sox organization?
It's hard to look positively to 2008, when there are perhaps 7 guys likely to be on the 2008 roster who are reasonably likely to be healthy and have proven an ability to produce at the major league level with any consistency. We have Konerko, Thome, AJ, Buehrle, Jenks, Garland, Javy, and Jose. One of those last three likely is gone before the month is out. Beyond that you have major injury question marks (Pods, Erstad, Crede), guys who are possibly to likely gone (Dye, Iguchi, Mackowiak), and the most godawful bullpen in the history of the entire universe. If Kenny can somehow rebuild from that to field a team capable of winning the 95 or so games needed to win the division next year, that's awesome and shows once again he is truly one of the best GM's in the game. But looking at the mess we have in front of us, I fail to see how signing an expensive aging OF like Jones or Hunter would really do much to help the long-term future of the team. And no matter what we'll then have to put up with the constant harping of people about letting the OF's get their shot. If Brian Anderson is the demi-god his supporters think he is, give him 600 AB's and tell him to put up or shut up. If people want speed in the lineup, give Owens 600 AB's and make him do pushups every time he hits the ball in the air.

Spending $75 million to sign Andruw Jones won't help this team, but damn sure could hurt it in the coming years. Spending $60 million to sign Torii Hunter is the same thing. I'd rather see the Sox marshal their resources for the coming years, as I fail to see 2008 as being a year where the Sox can reasonably expect to challenge for the division. Now if we can somehow fill the holes at SS, 3B, RF, CF, LF, bullpen guys #2-6 this offseason, great. But I'd be happier as a fan seeing them look long-term to 2009-2011.

Palehose Pete
07-24-2007, 01:10 PM
Gotta agree that if people stop showing up at the park just because the players are young and unproven, our fans suck. The management may be taking a rough road back to dominance (or even being just competitive again), but if that road leads back to the WS in a couple of years, I for one will be glad that I went along for the ride instead of turning away from the team.

That said, I'd like to see at least one good veteran OFer next year on the team.

balke
07-24-2007, 01:20 PM
Pods - A. Jones - Dye

Owens as Pods back-up, and 4th OFer. That's what I want right now.


What is more likely in my mind:

Owens - Rowand - Dye w/ Erstad starting the season on the DL and coming back to take Owens spot.

That mixed with some kind of upgrade in the infield. I see Rowand coming back with some "we're sorry we doubted you" money. That might just be me though.

kittle42
07-24-2007, 01:20 PM
Gotta agree that if people stop showing up at the park just because the players are young and unproven, our fans suck. The management may be taking a rough road back to dominance (or even being just competitive again), but if that road leads back to the WS in a couple of years, I for one will be glad that I went along for the ride instead of turning away from the team.

That said, I'd like to see at least one good veteran OFer next year on the team.

How about Reggie Sanders? He is filling the "veteran guy on **** team" great with our main competition, the KC Royals!

RCWHITESOX
07-24-2007, 02:04 PM
My OF Either in LF Rowand in CF and Willy Mo Pena in RF Fits Ozzie's kind of team and Jerry's pocketbook . Get rid of Uribe!!!

balke
07-24-2007, 02:08 PM
Gotta agree that if people stop showing up at the park just because the players are young and unproven, our fans suck.

That said, I'd like to see at least one good veteran OFer next year on the team.

Well one, Cleveland went down that road and they are looking at what could be their 6th consecutive season without a playoff appearance. They also started with a much better base to develop talent with. Not only that, they know how to develop talent, and the Sox have shown lately they don't.

Two, if I want to watch Triple AAA Charlotte I'd buy cheaper tickets to see them. If the outfield is littered with rookies who haven't shown any reason to be starters at the MLB level, there's no reason for the fans to support that. Its up to the fan to decide the difference between supporting a team that's developing or going through rough times, and supporting a team unwilling to stay competitive who just trots out cheap slop (See the North side of Chicago).

Now if we were talking about an outfield of rookies with good promise, I'd think differently. Right now, we've seen all of the OFers from our system, and even if the best one is C Young down in AZ, there are a lot of veterans that can be acquired that will be doing much better next season for cheap. Why would you put the fans through the beginning of this season's misery all over again?

TheOldRoman
07-24-2007, 02:29 PM
As a bench player? Sure.

Andruw Jones is like Carlos Lee. He's fat and he's lazy, but he hits homeruns. At least on Lee's part, he hit for average too, you don't even get that from Jones. And he's worth $14+ million, how?Well, there is a difference. Jones isn't nearly as fat, and even with the step or two he lost, he is still the best defensive center fielder in the game. Lee plays the easiest position on the field, and does it extremely poorly. People shouldn't undervalue defense, but anyone would still be crazy to pay Jones $14 mil a year coming off this season. He is still young, but he has been in the majors forever, and it looks to me like he is already worn out or past his prime. I think he will sign a one year deal, then commit to finally getting into shape this offseason. I expect him to lose 20 pounds - not because he gave up Balco, but because he gave up Double Whoppers.

munchman33
07-24-2007, 03:04 PM
Fukudome is a KW-type under the radar signing. The offseason is stuffed with OF and he'll probably be able to lure him at a decent price with a guarantee to start.

It'll probably be Sweeney in left, Owens in center, and Fukudome in right.

russ99
07-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Andruw Jones is a Boras client. End of story.

I'd like to see:

LF - Mike Cameron
CF - Owens/Sweeney platoon
RF - Average hitter with some power like Brian Giles, Jason Bay or Xavier Nady.
In a perfect world, Carl Crawford, but the D-Rays probably won't part with him until they have to.

I'm not sold on Fukudome magically becoming a great MLB power-hitter, and I have a feeling there will be no "Market Correction" on Hunter or Rowand.

munchman33
07-24-2007, 03:58 PM
I'm not sold on Fukudome magically becoming a great MLB power-hitter, and I have a feeling there will be no "Market Correction" on Hunter or Rowand.

No, but he plays the game right and would probably hit decently. Probably a .280 hitter with close to 20 homers, and good defense.

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:23 PM
Just a little something for comparison. The 2004-2007 stats for the top free agent CF for this offseason:

Jones: 254/349/512/861
Hunter: 278/337/490/827
Rowand: 290/350/471/821
Cameron: 255/337/470/807
Byrnes: 272/333/458/791

I'm sorry, but the people who talk about how Rowand is a terrible player who only gets love for running into walls seem to be somewhat offbase. Over the last 2000 or so AB's he's a mere 6 OPS points behind Torii Hunter, and ahead of Cameron and Byrnes.

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2007, 04:30 PM
Just a little something for comparison. The 2004-2007 stats for the top free agent CF for this offseason:

Jones: 254/349/512/861
Hunter: 278/337/490/827
Rowand: 290/350/471/821
Cameron: 255/337/470/807
Byrnes: 272/333/458/791

I'm sorry, but the people who talk about how Rowand is a terrible player who only gets love for running into walls seem to be somewhat offbase. Over the last 2000 or so AB's he's a mere 6 OPS points behind Torii Hunter, and ahead of Cameron and Byrnes.First of all, you did the usual thing of exaggerating the position of the other person to make your argument stronger. People didn't say he's "terrible," just not as good as all the Rowand worshipers contend. Then listing his offensive numbers is not all there is to a centerfielder. It has nothing to do with the argument that many make that he gets bad jumps on flyballs. Running into walls does not make you a good defensive player. Hunter is a much better defensive center fielder than Rowand.

spiffie
07-27-2007, 04:56 PM
First of all, you did the usual thing of exaggerating the position of the other person to make your argument stronger. People didn't say he's "terrible," just not as good as all the Rowand worshipers contend. Then listing his offensive numbers is not all there is to a centerfielder. It has nothing to do with the argument that many make that he gets bad jumps on flyballs. Running into walls does not make you a good defensive player. Hunter is a much better defensive center fielder than Rowand.
No, you're right, terrible isn't the word. Just things like "aaron rowand is an average OF at best." http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1645094&postcount=18

And as for Rowand's defense, it strikes me as interesting that nearly every other observer of the game beyond this board thinks highly of Rowand's defense. I would agree that Hunter is a better defender (though memories of his performance in last year's ALDS come to mind), but beyond that it seems to me that Rowand's defense has been underestimated here as part of the never ending Brian Anderson holy wars. There's a reason that when Peter Gammons was talking about how good Jacoby Ellsbury's defense is he used Rowand as the standard to reach. While the stats are obviously imperfect, it says something that once again this year Rowand is a top 5 CF using Zone Rating. Yes, you might be able to make the case either statistically or anecdotally that Hunter is a better fielding CF, but there is not a particularly significant difference in their overall fielding performance. And considering Hunter will likely be signing for anywhere from 2-6 million more per year than Rowand will this offseason, I would say that the difference in salary is not going to be made up by the fielding difference.

I guess in the end I just don't understand the people who post things like "No Rowand" as though someone had suggested signing Sammy Sosa this offseason.

Nellie_Fox
07-27-2007, 05:03 PM
I would have no problem with Rowand coming back, other than the joyful weeping and swooning that would occur on this board.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 07:34 PM
No, you're right, terrible isn't the word. Just things like "aaron rowand is an average OF at best." http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1645094&postcount=18

And as for Rowand's defense, it strikes me as interesting that nearly every other observer of the game beyond this board thinks highly of Rowand's defense. I would agree that Hunter is a better defender (though memories of his performance in last year's ALDS come to mind), but beyond that it seems to me that Rowand's defense has been underestimated here as part of the never ending Brian Anderson holy wars. There's a reason that when Peter Gammons was talking about how good Jacoby Ellsbury's defense is he used Rowand as the standard to reach. While the stats are obviously imperfect, it says something that once again this year Rowand is a top 5 CF using Zone Rating. Yes, you might be able to make the case either statistically or anecdotally that Hunter is a better fielding CF, but there is not a particularly significant difference in their overall fielding performance. And considering Hunter will likely be signing for anywhere from 2-6 million more per year than Rowand will this offseason, I would say that the difference in salary is not going to be made up by the fielding difference.

I guess in the end I just don't understand the people who post things like "No Rowand" as though someone had suggested signing Sammy Sosa this offseason.
He is considered a "great" outfielder because of BBTN WebGem segment. You don't get webgems for getting good jumps on balls and making tough plays look basic. You get webgems for dives and slides and crashing into things. The fact is a lot of "webgems" are nothing but misread balls that could and should have been simple flyouts. You wanna see a "great" outfielder watch Andruw Jones and how shallow he plays. Jones makes as many plays as the "great" Aaron Rowand except he makes them look easy because he has no problems reading and reacting to balls.

rowand33
07-27-2007, 08:14 PM
You can see my outfield in my Sig.

If we can resign Dye for a reasonable price and shift him over to left field I think we can expect him to play above average D in LF and come up close to his 05 numbers.

getonbckthr
07-27-2007, 08:20 PM
You can see my outfield in my Sig.

If we can resign Dye for a reasonable price and shift him over to left field I think we can expect him to play above average D in LF and come up close to his 05 numbers.
So Owens????

rowand33
07-27-2007, 09:07 PM
So Owens????

I don't think that Owens is a starter.

Since the break he's hit .254/.319/.270 and only has 3 extra base hits in his 138 ABs on the year (all of which are doubles).

I think he gives great speed and a decent glove off of the bench as a 4th outfielder and his ability to bunt for a base hit would be a very nice asset to have off the bench.

I don't know if I would feel comfortable with him as an everyday player.

edit: and keep in mind with my 08 lineup, that doesn't take into account whatever Richar can do. Hopefully, he comes up and plays very well. I like him numbers down in Charlotte. And he played well in Tuscon.

tm1119
07-29-2007, 10:49 PM
I say move Fields to the the OF and resign Crede to a cheap incentive laden contract. I would then sign Tori Hunter and keep Pods.

My line-up would look like.

LF/RF- Pods
2B- Richar
1B- Konerko
DH- Thome
CF- Hunter
3B- Crede
LF/RF- Fields
C- AJ
SS- ? Hopefuly a trade happens because we dont have any options in our organization and i dont like the FA market here.

the1tab
07-29-2007, 11:02 PM
First off, I like the thought of Rowand coming back and not in CF for his own good. The walls have better padding in the corners...

Torii Hunter's going to get paid. And large. I have some fears about his ability to play off astroturf and without a garbage bag wrapped around posts as the "wall" in the OF. I'm not sure I buy him.

Andruw Jones is rumored to be giving ATL a Buehrle discount. He'll stay there. Heaven knows they need someone to rally around down there that doesn't kill pets...

If there's one guy on the proposed list that I would be genuinely excited about, it's Byrnes. This is really the first time he's had a full time gig, and he's killing it in Arizona. He plays hard and well. Also note his 25+ stolen bases this year. He's be incredible hitting 2nd between Owens and Paulie.

Here is a thought about the SS issue... I've seen/heard rumors that, if he was healthy for the last few weeks, Miguel Tejada might have been available at the deadline. Perhaps an offseason move that sends some of our alleged young arms and Joe Crede to Baltimore for Daniel Cabrera and Tejada? Thoughts?

Here's my proposed Opening Day lineup for the Pale Hose:

1 - Owens CF
2 - Byrnes LF
3 - Konerko 1B
4 - Thome DH
5 - Tejada SS
6 - Pierzinski C
7 - Rowand RF
8 - Fields 3B
9 - Richar 2B

tm1119
07-29-2007, 11:38 PM
I would stay away form Byrnes for the reason you said yourself. Hes never been a regualr player in his career. This could very well be a career year that he is going to cash in on big time.
Yes, Tori may be expensive, but you at least know what you are going to get from him. Hes going to give you gold glove D and pretty good power #'s(at least 25 and 80). Dye will be gone so that power will need to be replaced and i think getting hunter would be a very good option.
And at this point im hoping either Dye or Contreras can land us a SS for next year.

chisoxmike
07-30-2007, 12:17 AM
I don't really see a whole lot of future for 2008, so we might as well suck it up and let the three kids have a shot, and really be able to decide which, if any of them, are worth keeping. Unless you're going to go out and try and get Fukudome, go with Sweeney, Anderson, Owens. Give them 600 AB's next year, and then decide what holes we need to fill in 2009.

I will cancel my season tickets if that is our outfield and never look back.

rowand33
07-30-2007, 11:59 AM
I would stay away form Byrnes for the reason you said yourself. Hes never been a regualr player in his career. This could very well be a career year that he is going to cash in on big time.
Yes, Tori may be expensive, but you at least know what you are going to get from him. Hes going to give you gold glove D and pretty good power #'s(at least 25 and 80). Dye will be gone so that power will need to be replaced and i think getting hunter would be a very good option.
And at this point im hoping either Dye or Contreras can land us a SS for next year.

We can always shift Richar to SS and sign Castillo.

balke
07-30-2007, 12:24 PM
We can always shift Richar to SS and sign Castillo.

Unless the Sox are getting a significant offensive upgrade over Uribe with a decent glove, I don't see why there's that urgent of a need to replace him. Richar is a 2Bman, no reason to move him to SS at this point.

mcp5185
07-30-2007, 03:24 PM
First off, I like the thought of Rowand coming back and not in CF for his own good. The walls have better padding in the corners...

Torii Hunter's going to get paid. And large. I have some fears about his ability to play off astroturf and without a garbage bag wrapped around posts as the "wall" in the OF. I'm not sure I buy him.

Andruw Jones is rumored to be giving ATL a Buehrle discount. He'll stay there. Heaven knows they need someone to rally around down there that doesn't kill pets...

If there's one guy on the proposed list that I would be genuinely excited about, it's Byrnes. This is really the first time he's had a full time gig, and he's killing it in Arizona. He plays hard and well. Also note his 25+ stolen bases this year. He's be incredible hitting 2nd between Owens and Paulie.

Here is a thought about the SS issue... I've seen/heard rumors that, if he was healthy for the last few weeks, Miguel Tejada might have been available at the deadline. Perhaps an offseason move that sends some of our alleged young arms and Joe Crede to Baltimore for Daniel Cabrera and Tejada? Thoughts?

Here's my proposed Opening Day lineup for the Pale Hose:

1 - Owens CF
2 - Byrnes LF
3 - Konerko 1B
4 - Thome DH
5 - Tejada SS
6 - Pierzinski C
7 - Rowand RF
8 - Fields 3B
9 - Richar 2B

I wouldn't mind your lineup but I think that it will be too expensive. I highly doubt the payroll wil go up.

1. Owens CF
2. Byrnes RF
3. Konerko 1B
4. Thome DH
5. Fields LF
6. Crede 3B
7. Pierzynski C
8. Aybar SS
9. Richar 2B

Trade Garland to the Angels for Erick Aybar and Nick Adenhart, or something along those lines. However then I would like to acquire a SP to slot in the 3-4 spot in the rotation.

1. Buehrle
2. Vazquez
3. Danks
4. Trade
5. Adenhart/Gio/Floyd

Bench: Ozuna, Hall, Gonzalez, Anderson, Terrero?
Bullpen: Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Wasserman, Logan, Free Agent (Linebrink?)

Thoughts? Anyone know of a SP we could trade for.

Lillian
07-30-2007, 06:19 PM
Unless the Sox are getting a significant offensive upgrade over Uribe with a decent glove, I don't see why there's that urgent of a need to replace him. Richar is a 2Bman, no reason to move him to SS at this point.

Your point is well taken, but remember it would cost plenty to bring him back via exercising the rather expensive option.

rowand33
07-30-2007, 07:04 PM
Unless the Sox are getting a significant offensive upgrade over Uribe with a decent glove, I don't see why there's that urgent of a need to replace him. Richar is a 2Bman, no reason to move him to SS at this point.

last year's stat line:

.235/.257/.441

that .257 OBP was the worst in the majors for any starter.

this year?

.217/.270/.330.

I don't care how good his glove is. You can't justify keeping a .601 OPS in your lineup every game.

If Juan Uribe is on the team next year as a starter, we're in trouble.

the1tab
07-30-2007, 10:51 PM
I wouldn't mind your lineup but I think that it will be too expensive. I highly doubt the payroll wil go up.

1. Owens CF
2. Byrnes RF
3. Konerko 1B
4. Thome DH
5. Fields LF
6. Crede 3B
7. Pierzynski C
8. Aybar SS
9. Richar 2B

Trade Garland to the Angels for Erick Aybar and Nick Adenhart, or something along those lines. However then I would like to acquire a SP to slot in the 3-4 spot in the rotation.

1. Buehrle
2. Vazquez
3. Danks
4. Trade
5. Adenhart/Gio/Floyd

Bench: Ozuna, Hall, Gonzalez, Anderson, Terrero?
Bullpen: Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Wasserman, Logan, Free Agent (Linebrink?)

Thoughts? Anyone know of a SP we could trade for.

There are a few things about your proposed team that scare me half to death:

1) John Danks is a very good pitcher. He is not, however, ready to be a #3 starter at the big league level. He could be a good 4 or very good 5 in the next couple years, but he's not a #3 yet.

2) You mention Mike Macdougal in the bullpen. That alone is scary.

3) I'm not sure I'm too sold on the idea of Josh Fields in the OF. I am totally sold on going headfirst into the market for Eric Byrnes, but I can't get too excited about Fields in the OF.

4) 3 rookies in the starting everyday lineup, and Josh Fields being a 2nd year guy, makes for a very young lineup in a solid division. If you're going to throw this lineup out there, you need to do it now thru September, not in April.

I am, however, hopeful that Richar and Owens have good enough "tryouts" that they make this lineup something that's at least possible. I don't think next year you can, or will, start the season w/ both Crede & Fields. However, a healthy Joe Crede along with Jon Garland could land a significant number of pieces to fill in the roster. There are a number of teams with players that would look great in Sox silver & black that are probably going to need a 3B and SP next year and would overpay for a gold glove caliber Crede and an 18 game winner in Garland (Yankees anyone?). I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox pry Philip Hughes and Melky Cabrera away from NYY for Crede and Garland if GayRod walks in December.

TheVulture
07-31-2007, 04:03 PM
Here's a question: If you only could choose one, who would you pick?


1. Hunter
2. Rowand
3. Jones
4. Nah

TDog
07-31-2007, 04:12 PM
There are a few things about your proposed team that scare me half to death:

1) John Danks is a very good pitcher. He is not, however, ready to be a #3 starter at the big league level. He could be a good 4 or very good 5 in the next couple years, but he's not a #3 yet. ...

If the White Sox have only two starters that are better than Danks, he would be the No. 3 starter even if he has a disappointing sophomore season, which often happens after rookies have promising seasons. I remember when Jerry Crider was the No. 3 starter for the White Sox. That may have been his only major league season. It was probably his last. The Sox finished 50 games below .500 that year.

If you trade Garland, it might not matter if your pitchers aren't good enough to do what you want them to do. They will be the guys who will be called on to do it.

Flight #24
07-31-2007, 04:28 PM
At this point, I'd guess that things in April will look thusly:

CF-Owens
SS-Eckstein ($6M)
DH-Thome ($8M)
1B-Konerko ($12M)
RF-Dye ($8M)
LF-Fields
C-AJ ($6M)
3B-Crede ($6M)
2B-Richar
Total lineup: $47M

Rotation: Buehrle ($14M)-Garland ($12M)-Javy ($11.5M)-Jose ($10M)-Danks
Total rotation: $48M

Bullpen: Jenks ($1M)-Thornton ($1M)-Veteran ($3M)-3 from McDougal ($2M)/Bukvich/Haeger/Wasserman
Total bullpen: $7M

Bench: Hall ($3M)-Ozuna ($1M)-Podsednik($2M)-Terrero-Gonzalez
Total bench: $6M

Total payroll: $108M

Ideally Jose would up his value and Kenny could package him and a pitcher for a good young OF and a good young reliever (adding Gio as the #5 and bumping Danks to #4).

In a truly deeppink world, They'd up payroll to ~$115M and trade a healthy Crede in ST or early in '08, and with that plan in mind, sign ARod for $27-30M/yr (using Jose's $10M, the $6M allocated to Eckstein, the $6M allocated to Crede, and the additional $5-8M in payroll).

the1tab
07-31-2007, 06:35 PM
Ideally Jose would up his value and Kenny could package him and a pitcher for a good young OF and a good young reliever (adding Gio as the #5 and bumping Danks to #4).

If this is your hope, don't turn your television on.

esbrechtel
07-31-2007, 07:54 PM
At this point, I'd guess that things in April will look thusly:

CF-Owens
SS-Eckstein ($6M)
DH-Thome ($8M)
1B-Konerko ($12M)
RF-Dye ($8M)
LF-Fields
C-AJ ($6M)
3B-Crede ($6M)
2B-Richar
Total lineup: $47M

Rotation: Buehrle ($14M)-Garland ($12M)-Javy ($11.5M)-Jose ($10M)-Danks
Total rotation: $48M

Bullpen: Jenks ($1M)-Thornton ($1M)-Veteran ($3M)-3 from McDougal ($2M)/Bukvich/Haeger/Wasserman
Total bullpen: $7M

Bench: Hall ($3M)-Ozuna ($1M)-Podsednik($2M)-Terrero-Gonzalez
Total bench: $6M

Total payroll: $108M


That line up looks decent, however, I have a feeling Uribe is not going anywhere and Fields playing LF is a pipe dream....Crede will play only shortly next season (:whiner:) before he is shipped off, if he can prove hes healthy and Fields will become the starting 3B for the Sox in 08...

pierzynski07
07-31-2007, 08:06 PM
I would have no problem with Rowand coming back, other than the joyful weeping and swooning that would occur on this board.
If he's an improvment for the team and the salary is not a hinderence, then I wouldn't give two ****s about the weeping and swooning.

Nellie_Fox
08-01-2007, 12:47 AM
If he's an improvment for the team and the salary is not a hinderence, then I wouldn't give two ****s about the weeping and swooning.It was a joke, son.