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LITTLE NELL
07-22-2007, 09:19 AM
If he continues to hit (.301 since being recalled) can he be the answer to our CF leadoff guy? I live in Florida and only see the games on WGN and Game of the week stuff. How is his defense and arm?

voodoochile
07-22-2007, 09:24 AM
His defense is fine. He has actually made some excellent catches these past few games including Manny's 405' shot to the deepest part of the park and another one that was actually past him when he hauled it in - in the same area last night.

Haven't seen enough of his arm to comment, but he gets to the ball and he catches it when he gets there from what I have seen.

Palehose Pete
07-22-2007, 09:32 AM
He isn't reading the ball off of the bat as well as a guy like BA can read it, but he makes up for that with his speed. Can't comment on his arm.

On another note, me likey the speed that Owens brings to the table. I say let him play the OF like a regular starter the rest of the season, since we're toast. If Owens can learn to be a slap-shot artist, he'll be an invaluable table setter with his speed.

jabrch
07-22-2007, 10:00 AM
Haven't seen enough of his arm to comment, but he gets to the ball and he catches it when he gets there from what I have seen.

I've seen enough of his arm. Owens has a below average arm from CF. That said, I can live with that if he continues to hit, run and field it as he has since coming back up.

I'd have no problem with Owens penciled in CF next year, provided we go out and upgrade elsewhere.

santo=dorf
07-22-2007, 12:47 PM
If he continues to hit (.301 since being recalled) can he be the answer to our CF leadoff guy? I live in Florida and only see the games on WGN and Game of the week stuff. How is his defense and arm?
Batting average is not the end all-be all stat for offensive hitting.
Since his recall: .302/.353/.302 7 SB, 3 CS.
That's a good OBP for the rookie, but everyone of his hits has been a single. Nobody is expecting him to be Rickey Henderson and hit a lot of leadoff home runs, but with his speed he should be able to get a triple out of a gapper and turn some bloop singles into hustling doubles.

Taliesinrk
07-22-2007, 01:11 PM
What about an OF of owens, rowand and sweeney? You guys fill in the positions..

And no, I don't think Rowand is "The Savior", but him in RF, Sweeney in LF and Owens in CF would save money to go elsewhere..

Then we could get Castillo to lead-off and bat Owens in the 9 hole. I like Owens, but I'd be a bit weary if we went into the season with him as our lead-off hitter.

jabrch
07-22-2007, 01:14 PM
What about an OF of owens, rowand and sweeney? You guys fill in the positions..

And no, I don't think Rowand is "The Savior", but him in RF, Sweeney in LF and Owens in CF would save money to go elsewhere..

Then we could get Castillo to lead-off and bat Owens in the 9 hole. I like Owens, but I'd be a bit weary if we went into the season with him as our lead-off hitter.

I don't know if I'd pay either Rowand or Castillo the money they will want. That would be one fast OF - that's for sure.

wealz07
07-22-2007, 01:21 PM
Sweeney should be given the next chance to win the CF job. At this point, his bat isn't good enough to play left or right. Fields should be in left if Crede is healthy next year. Owens needs to prove he's better than a 5th OF'er (on a good team) which to this point he has not done.

jabrch
07-22-2007, 01:27 PM
Owens needs to prove he's better than a 5th OF'er (on a good team) which to this point he has not done.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7846/gamelog;_ylt=AstIF2ax_rEisE0Tzl3_n3CFCLcF



He's done a pretty good job convincing me that he can do it so far since coming back up.

kobo
07-22-2007, 01:42 PM
Sweeney should be given the next chance to win the CF job. At this point, his bat isn't good enough to play left or right. Fields should be in left if Crede is healthy next year. Owens needs to prove he's better than a 5th OF'er (on a good team) which to this point he has not done.
Why should Sweeney be given the chance to play CF if his bat right now isn't good enough for left or right? That makes no sense.

Fields in left after spending the season at 3rd? What, Fields is going to magically learn how to play a new position during the off season? He needs to stay at 3rd and work on his D, not move to the OF.

Since the break Owens has been pretty impressive. If he continues to play this well then he def. deserves a shot next year.

wealz07
07-22-2007, 01:44 PM
A nice two week run isn't enough proof for me.

Put it this way, Owens is behind Fields and Sweeney as far as prospects are concerned in my estimation and if all three of them are in the starting OF next year, it's going to be another long year.

getonbckthr
07-22-2007, 01:46 PM
What about an OF of owens, rowand and sweeney? You guys fill in the positions..

And no, I don't think Rowand is "The Savior", but him in RF, Sweeney in LF and Owens in CF would save money to go elsewhere..

Then we could get Castillo to lead-off and bat Owens in the 9 hole. I like Owens, but I'd be a bit weary if we went into the season with him as our lead-off hitter.
Just please say NO.

ChiSoxFan7
07-22-2007, 04:52 PM
He isn't reading the ball off of the bat as well as a guy like BA can read it, but he makes up for that with his speed. Can't comment on his arm.

On another note, me likey the speed that Owens brings to the table. I say let him play the OF like a regular starter the rest of the season, since we're toast. If Owens can learn to be a slap-shot artist, he'll be an invaluable table setter with his speed.

is he faster/better base stealer than pods...

I heard on the game on fox that he was the best athlete in the organization being a UCLA receiver etc.


It WAS on FOX and i think it was Joe "stupid" buck commentating, so i must wonder is that true about his athleticism?

Railsplitter
07-22-2007, 08:49 PM
I like his speed and his batting average over the last couple weeks. keep this up, and center field is his.

balke
07-22-2007, 08:54 PM
is he faster/better base stealer than pods...

I heard on the game on fox that he was the best athlete in the organization being a UCLA receiver etc.


It WAS on FOX and i think it was Joe "stupid" buck commentating, so i must wonder is that true about his athleticism?

Faster probably, better base stealer probably not. I think he can steal a bunch though. I would also say that his speed does NOT make up for his bad jumps on the ball (if you're comparing him to Anderson) but he's probably covering enough ground.

lostfan
07-22-2007, 09:05 PM
Faster probably, better base stealer probably not. I think he can steal a bunch though. I would also say that his speed does NOT make up for his bad jumps on the ball (if you're comparing him to Anderson) but he's probably covering enough ground.
Bad jumps are coachable. Unless you're talking about playing the outfield and not the basepaths in which case that's instinct, something you either can or can't do.

Lukin13
07-22-2007, 09:15 PM
What about an OF of owens, rowand and sweeney? You guys fill in the positions..

And no, I don't think Rowand is "The Savior", but him in RF, Sweeney in LF and Owens in CF would save money to go elsewhere..



It is ideas like this one that would just get me excited about the rest of the year.... and really next year for that matter. I am not sure if you can win without a big outfield stick (or 3) but it sure would be a fun team to watch with all of that speed out there. Before Anderson got hurt I was hoping they would go Sweeney, Anderson and Owens THIS YEAR.

Think of the infielder, closer or starting pitcher we could afford if our outfield was making less than 2mil???? or even 8mil if you add Rowand??? Arod, Nathan or Zambrano anyone?

Obviously this is all contingent on Sweeney and Owens being able to keep a relatively respectable OBP over an entire season which is by no means guranteed.

I really would prefer watching the kids out there as opposed to Mack and Dye... and in a week Erstand and Pods>>>>>>>>>

oeo
07-22-2007, 09:19 PM
It is ideas like this one that would just get me excited about the rest of the year.... and really next year for that matter. I am not sure if you can win without a big outfield stick (or 3) but it sure would be a fun team to watch with all of that speed out there. Before Anderson got hurt I was hoping they would go Sweeney, Anderson and Owens THIS YEAR.

Think of the infielder, closer or starting pitcher we could afford if our outfield was making less than 2mil???? or even 8mil if you add Rowand??? Arod, Nathan or Zambrano anyone?

Obviously this is all contingent on Sweeney and Owens being able to keep a relatively respectable OBP over an entire season which is by no means guranteed.

I really would prefer watching the kids out there as opposed to Mack and Dye... and in a week Erstand and Pods>>>>>>>>>

The Twins have an option on Nathan following this year...I highly doubt they turn it down.

balke
07-22-2007, 09:47 PM
Bad jumps are coachable. Unless you're talking about playing the outfield and not the basepaths in which case that's instinct, something you either can or can't do.

I was talking about outfield jumps. He doesn't seem to read the ball of the bat that well from what I've seen.


Its a horrible idea to start 2 AAA guys in OF next season. Sweeney isn't ready. He's gonna have to win the position, something he hasn't done. Owens is showing promise to play a 4th OFer or perhaps a starter though. He's still gonna have to keep up and show a little more at the plate IMO. But I could see him as bench speed.

AJ Hellraiser
07-22-2007, 09:48 PM
I do like what Owens brings to the table... we all know he's fast, really the only issue is can he hit? He is on a 13-game hitting streak... now, i know 2 weeks isn't enough to base anything on as another poster said but it's a good start... he also provides Ozzie with the ability to bunt for a hit or in specific situations

He does, however, have a terrible arm so I think he'd be better in LF... bring in a CF from the loaded crop there and either give Sweeney the RF job or sign someone there as well....

lostfan
07-22-2007, 10:14 PM
I do like what Owens brings to the table... we all know he's fast, really the only issue is can he hit? He is on a 13-game hitting streak... now, i know 2 weeks isn't enough to base anything on as another poster said but it's a good start... he also provides Ozzie with the ability to bunt for a hit or in specific situations

He does, however, have a terrible arm so I think he'd be better in LF... bring in a CF from the loaded crop there and either give Sweeney the RF job or sign someone there as well....
If by "13" you mean "7" then yeah, he's on a 13-game hitting streak.:?:

GAsoxfan
07-23-2007, 12:04 AM
If by "13" you mean "7" then yeah, he's on a 13-game hitting streak.:?:

He's on a 13-game hit streak as a starter. I think that is what he is referring to. There are a couple games in there when he came in as a sub and didn't get a hit.

Nellie_Fox
07-23-2007, 12:44 AM
Why should Sweeney be given the chance to play CF if his bat right now isn't good enough for left or right? That makes no sense.Sure it does, if you (like me) are old school. The corner positions (left, right, 3rd, 1st) were always considered offensive positions. Up the middle (catcher, short, 2nd, and center) defensive. You can put up with a weak bat in center for good defense, not so the corners.

AJ Hellraiser
07-23-2007, 12:47 AM
He's on a 13-game hit streak as a starter. I think that is what he is referring to. There are a couple games in there when he came in as a sub and didn't get a hit.

Thanks.... kinda left that little bit of info. out... my bad.... can't really fault a guy for not getting a hit in 1 at bat to extend he hit streak

Steelrod
07-23-2007, 02:46 AM
It is ideas like this one that would just get me excited about the rest of the year.... and really next year for that matter. I am not sure if you can win without a big outfield stick (or 3) but it sure would be a fun team to watch with all of that speed out there. Before Anderson got hurt I was hoping they would go Sweeney, Anderson and Owens THIS YEAR.

Think of the infielder, closer or starting pitcher we could afford if our outfield was making less than 2mil???? or even 8mil if you add Rowand??? Arod, Nathan or Zambrano anyone?

Obviously this is all contingent on Sweeney and Owens being able to keep a relatively respectable OBP over an entire season which is by no means guranteed.

I really would prefer watching the kids out there as opposed to Mack and Dye... and in a week Erstand and Pods>>>>>>>>>
Don't kid yourself. In today's market, Rowand will make 10 per year on a multiyear based on this year's performance.

FedEx227
07-23-2007, 07:59 AM
Don't kid yourself. In today's market, Rowand will make 10 per year on a multiyear based on this year's performance.

People keep seeing Rowand as this "discount" CFer. He's not going to be. In fact he'll probably be the most coveted CFer on the market this offseason because he'll only command 9-11 million while Hunter and Ichiro will command far more.

balke
07-23-2007, 08:38 AM
People keep seeing Rowand as this "discount" CFer. He's not going to be. In fact he'll probably be the most coveted CFer on the market this offseason because he'll only command 9-11 million while Hunter and Ichiro will command far more.

Well Ichiro is off the market, but that only adds to your point. Less CFers available. Andruw Jones, and Hunter are the premier CF free agents at this point I believe. After that is Rowand, Patterson, and Cameron, Lofton and some corner OFers like Dye, Abreu, Byrnes, Bradley, Alou, Jenkins, Nixon.

When I see that list I think Cameron back on the southside.

kjhanson
07-23-2007, 09:30 AM
Watching Owens play has been the only bright spot for me this summer.

His arm, as mentioned, is poor. Think Juan Pierre poor. His reads on flyballs have been getting a little bit better of late, although he isn't completely there. None-the-less, he has gotten to every single ball he should have, and even a few that I thought he had no chance of getting to. He really played a great CF in this past series against Boston.

In a foot race, I think he would beat a healthy Podsednik more times than not. He can absolutely fly, which is why I've enjoyed watching him run down balls in center field, and sprint down the line after laying down a bunt.

A few days ago I brought up the point of him not having any extra base hits (which someone also stated in this thread). I also said that it wasn't that big of a concern, because of his run-conversion rate.

Jimmy Rollins is slugging .527 this year and has been on base 152 times, scoring 84 runs. (84/152 ~ 55%).
Jerry Owens is slugging .299 since being called up and has been on base 25 times, scoring 12 runs. (12/25 = 48%)
Juan Pierre's highest conversion rate in his career? 2002 with Colorado (45%)

lostfan
07-23-2007, 09:37 AM
Yeah, thinking about the fact that Owens has a high ceiling gets me excited about the possibility of having him as a leadoff hitter in the future. The thing about him that sticks out most in my mind is when I was watching him in Baltimore at Oriole Park, when he stole second and flew around on the next single. He slid into home on a close play, got called safe, and jumped up and pumped his fist. To me that's the equivalent of a running back juking a defender and breaking off a long TD run. In other words, what excitement in the game is all about.

lostfan
07-24-2007, 04:51 PM
If he gets a hit in the second game of the doubleheader it will make it a...

...nevermind, I'm superstitious.

Nellie_Fox
07-25-2007, 12:14 AM
If he gets a hit in the second game of the doubleheader it will make it a...

...nevermind, I'm superstitious.Nevermind is an album by Nirvana. Never mind is two words.

santo=dorf
07-25-2007, 06:07 AM
Jimmy Rollins is slugging .527 this year and has been on base 152 times, scoring 84 runs. (84/152 ~ 55%).
Jerry Owens is slugging .299 since being called up and has been on base 25 times, scoring 12 runs. (12/25 = 48%)
Juan Pierre's highest conversion rate in his career? 2002 with Colorado (45%)
Runs are a very team dependent stat and your sample size with Owens is very small.

Owens is currently on a 10 game hit streak. It's probably one of the weakest ones I've ever seen as he's had two 1-6 games, two 1-5 games, and three 1-4 games with all of hits being singles.

Before the streak: .227/.277/.250
After yesterday: .244/.292/.267
Gain: .017/.015/.017

MikeKreevich
07-25-2007, 07:17 AM
Owens might have the weakest swing I have ever seen, and I have been watching baseball for over fifty years. He doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer. How many RBI's does he have now?

jabrch
07-25-2007, 08:40 AM
How many RBI's does he have now?


How many stolen bases does Konerko have?

WHO ****ING CARES?

lostfan
07-25-2007, 08:46 AM
Owens might have the weakest swing I have ever seen, and I have been watching baseball for over fifty years. He doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer. How many RBI's does he have now?
Owens weak swing = yes, he has no power whatsoever, I'll be shocked the first time he hits a homer in the majors, if it ever happens.

Number of RBI = as said above, who cares? He's not expected to drive in runs. He's expected to score them.

Did you really say he doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer? I think I'll just let that one slide since it's so far off. That's like me saying "the sky doesn't appear to be very blue."

lostfan
07-25-2007, 08:47 AM
Nevermind is an album by Nirvana. Never mind is two words.
I just finished my summer English course and I got an A. So there. :tongue:

upperdeckusc
07-25-2007, 11:16 AM
Owens might have the weakest swing I have ever seen, and I have been watching baseball for over fifty years. He doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer. How many RBI's does he have now?

:?::?::?:

INSox56
07-25-2007, 11:20 AM
:?::?::?: Well he is only on pace to steal 55-60 given a full season...

kjhanson
07-25-2007, 11:44 AM
Owens is currently on a 10 game hit streak. It's probably one of the weakest ones I've ever seen as he's had two 1-6 games, two 1-5 games, and three 1-4 games with all of hits being singles.


Pete Rose had a pretty weak 44-game hitting streak:
0 Home Runs
0 Triples
13 Doubles (48 stretched out to a full year)
11 RBI (41 stretched out)
30 Runs (110 stretched out)

Jerry's current 16-game streak (in games started):
0 Home Runs
0 Triples
1 Double (10 stretched out)
3 RBI (30 stretched out)
12 Runs (122 stretched out)

santo=dorf
07-25-2007, 04:38 PM
Pete Rose had a pretty weak 44-game hitting streak:
0 Home Runs
0 Triples
13 Doubles (48 stretched out to a full year)
11 RBI (41 stretched out)
30 Runs (110 stretched out)

Jerry's current 16-game streak (in games started):
0 Home Runs
0 Triples
1 Double (10 stretched out)
3 RBI (30 stretched out)
12 Runs (122 stretched out)
Pete Rose before the streak: .267/.330/.404
Pete Rose before the day his streak ended: .316/.367/.428
Gain: .049/.037/.024

Yep, that's pretty slappy, but as your batting average gets higher, it becomes more difficult to add on. Rose started with a BA 40 points higher than Jerry.

I wouldn't mind if Jerry bunted his way past DiMaggio, but it's more likely he'll end up like an Alex Sanchez or Nook Logan.

munchman33
07-25-2007, 04:41 PM
Honestly, I don't care that Owens only hits singles. When he gets on base, he has the ability to move. And he's been doing a decent job of getting on base since he was called back up. If he continues to do that, go ahead and give him a real chance to stick next year.

kjhanson
07-25-2007, 04:44 PM
Pete Rose before the streak: .267/.330/.404
Pete Rose before the day his streak ended: .316/.367/.428
Gain: .049/.037/.024

Yep, that's pretty slappy, but as your batting average gets higher, it becomes more difficult to add on. Rose started with a BA 40 points higher than Jerry.

I wouldn't mind if Jerry bunted his way past DiMaggio, but it's more likely he'll end up like an Alex Sanchez or Nook Logan.

I interpreted your "weak", as in lacking power, which is what my analysis was based on. I would hope that someone's batting average would increase by a significant amount if they hit in 44 straight games.

santo=dorf
07-25-2007, 04:57 PM
I interpreted your "weak", as in lacking power, which is what my analysis was based on. I would hope that someone's batting average would increase by a significant amount if they hit in 44 straight games.
50 points isn't significant?

Interestling enough, Rose's ISoD went down during the hitting streak which means his walk rate was going down. It's pretty obvious he had that streak on his mind at the time.

upperdeckusc
07-25-2007, 05:02 PM
Honestly, I don't care that Owens only hits singles. When he gets on base, he has the ability to move. And he's been doing a decent job of getting on base since he was called back up. If he continues to do that, go ahead and give him a real chance to stick next year.

exactly. if can hit singles all day. at least 70-80% of the time, those are turning into doubles when he steals 2nd. i'll take that all day. if he can turn into a .270 hitter consistently, obp of .330-.350, and steal 45-50 bases per season, i'd love it. if he gets a full season to play, i dont think these numbers are unrealistic. the hardest part will be to get him to play a full season without platooning and w/o veterans taking his spot.

JB98
07-25-2007, 05:07 PM
Owens might have the weakest swing I have ever seen, and I have been watching baseball for over fifty years. He doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer. How many RBI's does he have now?

Owens took the weakest swing I've ever seen a major-leaguer take on a 2-0 pitch last night. That was right before the squeeze attempt went sour.

Tragg
07-25-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm all for playing the young players, including Owens.

But I read these quotes from Ozzie, in which Ozzie says Owens is playing so well he has to stay in the lineup, etc etc.

Owens can barely hit the ball out of the infield and has an OBP of .300. His defense isn't very good. (we've sacrificed some outfield defense in the last 2 seasons). And for a slap hitter, he needs to walk a lot mroe. Sure he may improve, so play him.

But, under what method of evaluation is he playing at the level of a MLB starting leadoff hitter?


Anyway, the real test to see if you can hit ML pitching is to bat 8th, with some Uribe protection.

Madscout
07-26-2007, 11:58 AM
If his D sucks, then put him in RF or LF. Not a hard transition. Sweeney or Anderson can play CF.

kjhanson
07-26-2007, 12:43 PM
Owens can barely hit the ball out of the infield and has an OBP of .300. His defense isn't very good. (we've sacrificed some outfield defense in the last 2 seasons). And for a slap hitter, he needs to walk a lot mroe. Sure he may improve, so play him.



I don't agree with your assessment defensively. If you're basing it all on his arm, then sure, he's not very good. But in terms of getting to balls, he's been excellent. His reads aren't great, but he's got more than enough speed to make up for it.

It is his arm, though, that I believe will hold him back. He's got an arm made for LF, but not many teams can afford to have absolutely no power at one of the corner OF spots.

redsand22
07-26-2007, 04:10 PM
I like Owens, as a possible 4th outfielder, I'm not sure about everyday.

santo=dorf
07-26-2007, 06:00 PM
Honestly, I don't care that Owens only hits singles. When he gets on base, he has the ability to move. And he's been doing a decent job of getting on base since he was called back up. If he continues to do that, go ahead and give him a real chance to stick next year.

Jerry Owens went 0-for-3 with a HBP on Thursday to snap his hitting streak at 10 games.

If you listed to Ozzie Guillen or, gulp, Hawk Harrelson, Owens has stepped up in a big way lately and just might be the White Sox's center fielder in 2008 and beyond. The numbers, though, don't show it. Owens is batting .254/.319/.270 in 63 at-bats since the All-Star break. The White Sox might as well play him over Darin Erstad after Erstad comes off the DL, but he's still looking like a long-term fifth outfielder.

rotoworld.

kjhanson
07-28-2007, 07:52 PM
Owens weak swing = yes, he has no power whatsoever, I'll be shocked the first time he hits a homer in the majors, if it ever happens.


Well, Jerry just said F-you to you, and everyone else. And he says it at the expense of one of the ten best pitchers in baseball!

This lineup with 9-1-2 of Richar, Owens and Fields was awesome to see. I think Richar will end up hitting 2nd though, as he looks like he handles the bat pretty well.

balke
07-28-2007, 07:59 PM
Well, Jerry just said F-you to you, and everyone else. And he says it at the expense of one of the ten best pitchers in baseball!

This lineup with 9-1-2 of Richar, Owens and Fields was awesome to see. I think Richar will end up hitting 2nd though, as he looks like he handles the bat pretty well.

He ain't no Terrero though. Thanks Owens for the HR and go ahead run in a close one. That doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have power. Not that he really needs power, more doubles or triples would be nice though. Save the legs.

lostfan
07-28-2007, 08:15 PM
Well, Jerry just said F-you to you, and everyone else.
He's welcome to do that as often as he wants. I will not complain.

In all seriousness though, Pods hits homers sometimes too, but I still would classify him as having no power. It's ok though. I don't expect an effective leadoff guy to have much power.

letsgosox1592
07-28-2007, 08:17 PM
He's welcome to do that as often as he wants. I will not complain.

In all seriousness though, Pods hits homers sometimes too, but I still would classify him as having no power. It's ok though. I don't expect an effective leadoff guy to have much power.
I think nobody would complain on that

chisoxfanatic
07-28-2007, 09:06 PM
To be honest with you, when Erstad is ready, I don't want him starting! Not with the way Owens is playing. He definitely has far more speed, and you can't say enough about the experience he's getting. I also think he's coming on his own both with the stick, as well as in the field (at least TRYING to make plays out there unlike guys like Terrero or Gonzalez)--tonight's play especially, where he trapped the ball and got it quickly to Buehrle for a close out instead of allowing the ball to go all the way to the warning track.

Owens really seems like the type of Grinder we need.

lostfan
07-28-2007, 09:17 PM
I don't really mind Erstad being on this team. Just not as a starter. He's a good, borderline great CF and a career .285 hitter. But just not the kind of guy I'd depend on every day... maybe earlier in his career, I would.

Tragg
07-28-2007, 09:36 PM
I don't agree with your assessment defensively. If you're basing it all on his arm, then sure, he's not very good. But in terms of getting to balls, he's been excellent. His reads aren't great, but he's got more than enough speed to make up for it.

It is his arm, though, that I believe will hold him back. He's got an arm made for LF, but not many teams can afford to have absolutely no power at one of the corner OF spots.
YOur description, to me, is that he's adequate in LF. I'll buy that. Anyway, we won a WS with no power in a corner outfield. But if we give up left field, we need a producer in CF.
And that was one of the problems with this offense at the beginning of the season...Ozzie used 2 outfield spots for doink hitters.
We can't afford Erstad's (lack of) offense and we need to develop young players. Erstad's primary offensive skill of making outs in designated infield spots really isn't that valuable.

GAsoxfan
07-28-2007, 09:55 PM
I don't really mind Erstad being on this team. Just not as a starter. He's a good, borderline great CF and a career .285 hitter. But just not the kind of guy I'd depend on every day... maybe earlier in his career, I would.

I agree. I think he'd be valuable as a 4th OF and back-up 1B.

jabrch
07-28-2007, 10:53 PM
There are lots of ways to win a baseball game. There are lots of ways to win 90 games. There are lots of ways to win a 5 or 7 game series. Jerry Owens can be a valuable part of a winning team. So can Erstadt, Pods, etc. So can all of them.

Anyone who tells you otherwise must have a "formula" to winning. If nothing else we have learned over the course of time that there is no formula to winning and that teams can win in any of a number of ways. The best team on paper hardly ever wins.

Crappy season - no doubt. But today was yet another encouraging sign, Richar, Owens and of course Buehrle and Bobby.

If guys like Richar and Owens (along with Fields) enable us to spend big $ on a major impact bat at SS or RF, then I am all for it.

JB98
07-28-2007, 11:10 PM
Tonight is the first night I'm encouraged by what I saw from Owens. He looked totally inept in his first two ABs, but he made some adjustments against a tough pitcher and hit the ball hard in his final two plate appearances.

I'm still not sold, but one way for a player to change my mind is to show he can get big hits against quality pitchers. Not just the middle-of-the-rotation sorts. Tonight, Owens did a nice job against one of the toughest pitchers in the American League.

Tragg
07-29-2007, 08:08 AM
Tonight is the first night I'm encouraged by what I saw from Owens. He looked totally inept in his first two ABs, but he made some adjustments against a tough pitcher and hit the ball hard in his final two plate appearances.

I'm still not sold, but one way for a player to change my mind is to show he can get big hits against quality pitchers. Not just the middle-of-the-rotation sorts. Tonight, Owens did a nice job against one of the toughest pitchers in the American League.
Halliday throws so much garbage (that looks good for 55 feet) that hitters really look stupid flailing at it. He throws a lot more balls than strikes. The best at that was John Franco - best in the sense that he'd go through several batters without throwing a single strike.
Anyway, Owens could be pretty good...he just needs to get on base more; his walk rate is way too low and his average is as well. .270 and get on base 35% of the time, and we'll have a young Pods.

socko82
07-29-2007, 09:35 AM
Owens might have the weakest swing I have ever seen, and I have been watching baseball for over fifty years. He doesn't appear to be much of a base stealer. How many RBI's does he have now?

Owens kind of reminds me of Miguel Dilone from the '80's. As for not being much of a base stealer he has yet to be thrown out by a catcher this year. He's 13 for 13 and his 3 CS are all pickoffs.

slavko
07-29-2007, 11:18 AM
Owens kind of reminds me of Miguel Dilone from the '80's. As for not being much of a base stealer he has yet to be thrown out by a catcher this year. He's 13 for 13 and his 3 CS are all pickoffs.

THAT'S the name I was trying to think of! Ran like the wind, swung like a girl (not a WSI girl, either) eventually started to hit the ball. Owens looks to be more of an athlete, less of a hitter. Owens is not a youngster, either. His arm is pathetic, but so was Lance Johnson's arm (not to the degree that Owens's is.)

Right now Owens is good enough to get a look from a team that's playing out the string. That's all. BA with his head on straight is twice the player.

soltrain21
07-29-2007, 11:21 AM
BA with his head on straight is twice the player.


We still have yet to see that.

California Sox
07-29-2007, 11:37 AM
Owens reminds me of former Sox CF Rudy Law, right down to the rag throwing arm. We won with Law and Lance Johnson, neither of whom could throw. Owens is an intriguing player and a lot cheaper than Pods. I would, however, hate to just let Pods walk for nothing.

slavko
07-29-2007, 07:01 PM
We still have yet to see that.

What we did see was an immature attitude, speed, occasional power, superior CF defense, a throwing arm, and hitting which improved in the 2nd half. Owens can run. You pick.

soltrain21
07-29-2007, 07:16 PM
What we did see was an immature attitude, speed, occasional power, superior CF defense, a throwing arm, and hitting which improved in the 2nd half. Owens can run. You pick.


I like Brian Anderson. I supported him; but I think its pretty tough to say he is twice the player that Owens is.

Patrick134
07-29-2007, 09:25 PM
I like Brian Anderson. I supported him; but I think its pretty tough to say he is twice the player that Owens is.


That depends. If they had a contest on who could strike out more often and look clueless, BAAA would be thrice the player then.

slavko
07-29-2007, 11:07 PM
I like Brian Anderson. I supported him; but I think its pretty tough to say he is twice the player that Owens is.

All I said was he could/should be with a mature attitude, let's say like Owens has. College makes you smart, not dumb. He has more than twice the skill set of Owens, right? The question is moot because he's messed up physically this season. Owens gets his chance to win the job.

soltrain21
07-29-2007, 11:23 PM
All I said was he could/should be with a mature attitude, let's say like Owens has. College makes you smart, not dumb. He has more than twice the skill set of Owens, right? The question is moot because he's messed up physically this season. Owens gets his chance to win the job.


And other players have had better skill sets than Anderson and failed. Funny how baseball works, huh?

As for your lame attempt at an insult? :rolleyes:

jabrch
07-30-2007, 08:44 AM
Owens can run. You pick.


Owens has hit .282 since July 6th. He has at least above average range in CF. To sum up Jerry Owen's skills by saying only that he can run, while talking about all these things that BA could do, if he was remotely ready to be on a major league roster all season, is a bit misleading.

BA went back to the minors this year and went .255/.318/.435. Sorry - your boy just isn't good enough.

slavko
07-30-2007, 06:33 PM
And other players have had better skill sets than Anderson and failed. Funny how baseball works, huh?

As for your lame attempt at an insult? :rolleyes:

There was no intentional attempt at an insult. I respect you.

Taliesinrk
07-30-2007, 07:16 PM
BA went back to the minors this year and went .255/.318/.435. Sorry - your boy just isn't good enough.

I think you're wrong here. While I like both, and would take a similar player with Owens' attitude any day of the week, BA has not been given a fair chance. I wish more around here would realize that. I'm becoming a big Owens fan, but to say BA can't cut it is like saying Josh Fields will/won't amount to anything in the bigs... we just haven't seen enough yet.

soltrain21
07-30-2007, 07:49 PM
There was no intentional attempt at an insult. I respect you.


I respect you, also. Which was I was a tad confused by the college comment.


All is well.

slavko
07-31-2007, 09:13 AM
I respect you, also. Which was I was a tad confused by the college comment.


All is well.

The college comment was in reference to my belief that Owens has been to college and Anderson not as a possible source of the latter's immaturity. We are all equal on WSI regardless of our educational level, plus I don't know what yours is. Again, no insult to you (or Owens or BA) intended.

lostfan
07-31-2007, 03:17 PM
The college comment was in reference to my belief that Owens has been to college and Anderson not as a possible source of the latter's immaturity. We are all equal on WSI regardless of our educational level, plus I don't know what yours is. Again, no insult to you (or Owens or BA) intended.
Anderson's been to college. One of the Arizona schools. I forget which.

southside rocks
07-31-2007, 04:14 PM
Anderson's been to college. One of the Arizona schools. I forget which.

University of Arizona. Did well in baseball there, I believe. Also played in the Cape Cod League for a summer or two.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/player_career.jsp?player_id=435042
http://www.bournebraves.org/bourne-braves-alumni.html