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View Full Version : *Official* White Vs. Red: Round 1: Game 2 7/20/2007 Postgme Thread


Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Ozzie has mostly been a good manager for us, but on this one night...

...:ozzie = :wanne

MCHSoxFan
07-20-2007, 09:02 PM
Man, does SP matter!!!! I know we ONLY scored 3 runs, but, we scored 4 runs yeasterday and we still WON!!! The one time Ozzie keeps a starter in for a really looong time is when JC is PITCHING!!!! :angry:

All I can say is: GET EM TOMORROW!!!

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-20-2007, 09:04 PM
that SUCKED

Wassermann looked really good tho. I'm pretty excited about what he has to offer in the future.

CLR01
07-20-2007, 09:06 PM
Giving up a grand slam to Lugo should end a pitchers career immediately.


Only need to go 50-18 from here out. It starts tomorrow.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 09:08 PM
Can't wait for the calls to Rongey.

Brian26
07-20-2007, 09:09 PM
Giving up a grand slam to Lugo should end a pitchers career immediately.

The only thing that could be worse would be giving up a homer to Lenn Sakata (the 2007 version).

sox1970
07-20-2007, 09:12 PM
Jose Contreras needs to be put on the DL or something. He's just brutal. Nobody will take him at $10 mill in 08 and 09. We may have another Jaime Navarro on our hands.

Since the 9-0 start in 2006, he has made 33 starts. His numbers:

9-21 record, with a 5.61 ERA in 200.2 innings.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-20-2007, 09:15 PM
man this place is a graveyard

Patrick134
07-20-2007, 09:15 PM
Lugo's homer was meaningless coming when it did. The bad play of the game was playing the shift on Hinske. You have to earn a shift like that. when you put that shift on, usually it's for a guy that you'd rather have bunt, because he could hurt you in so many other ways (Thome, Giambi). I don't care if you show me a chart that 99% of Hinske's balls are hit towards right field, he hasn't earned a shift like that.

SluggersAway
07-20-2007, 09:17 PM
We couldn't hit once we lost the lead. End of story.

Railsplitter
07-20-2007, 09:18 PM
:angry: :cuss:

I don't recall Bevington leaving the left side of the infield wide open.

Oh well, at least the Yankers fall back by a game.

Brian26
07-20-2007, 09:19 PM
Jose Contreras needs to be put on the DL or something. He's just brutal. Nobody will take him at $10 mill in 08 and 09. We may have another Jaime Navarro on our hands.

Since the 9-0 start in 2006, he has made 33 starts. His numbers:

9-21 record, with a 5.61 ERA in 200.2 innings.

He's an innings eater? :duck:

Fenway
07-20-2007, 09:20 PM
Jose has NEVER pitched well at Fenway as his career ERA is now over 10

StillMissOzzie
07-20-2007, 09:21 PM
*** could Contreras possibly have said to Ozzie to convince Ozzie to keep him in the game? A grand slam to Lugo?

SMO
:angry:

sox1970
07-20-2007, 09:22 PM
He's an innings eater? :duck:

I'd rather see those innings go to Floyd or Egbert.

Patrick134
07-20-2007, 09:23 PM
*** could Contreras possibly have said to Ozzie to convince Ozzie to keep him in the game? A grand slam to Lugo?

SMO
:angry:


Down 3, bottom of the 8th. The slam was inconsequential to the outcome.

A. Cavatica
07-20-2007, 09:23 PM
It's nice to see Ozzie make a mistake once in a while.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 09:29 PM
Rongey just plugged WSI!

Brian26
07-20-2007, 09:37 PM
It's pretty funny because the crowd can hear the callers too, and they're booing whenever a bad caller comes on.

HotelWhiteSox
07-20-2007, 09:37 PM
No doubt Ozzie has given up, he just wants to top starting Brian Anderson as a DH, and is probably laughing his ass off at us going crazy about it

CLR01
07-20-2007, 09:40 PM
Rongey just plugged WSI!

Our paychecks just got a little larger. :supernana:

Martinigirl
07-20-2007, 09:43 PM
Down 3, bottom of the 8th. The slam was inconsequential to the outcome.

From a literal stand point, you are right. But that is like saying the nightmare double header debacle to the Twins was just two lost games. You can lose games or you can look like crap and embarrass yourself.

The game was not out of hand, it was bad, but not a complete disaster. It didn't become a total cluster **** until the grandslam.

oeo
07-20-2007, 09:45 PM
Jose Contreras needs to be put on the DL or something. He's just brutal. Nobody will take him at $10 mill in 08 and 09. We may have another Jaime Navarro on our hands.

Since the 9-0 start in 2006, he has made 33 starts. His numbers:

9-21 record, with a 5.61 ERA in 200.2 innings.

He actually wasn't all that bad today. :dunno:

His line is much worse than he pitched. That brutal 5th inning killed him...then he should have been taken out after the "HBP".

I didn't expect to win this one with Contreras on the mound, but he gave us a chance. Ozzie really ****ed this one up in the 5th. One of the few times you can put a loss on the manager.

MrX
07-20-2007, 09:49 PM
The execution in the bottom of the 5th would have been embarrassing if that was a little league team playing like that. Keeping the shift on was stupid and then when everyone in the stadium knows Lugo is bunting, Contreras throws a pitch almost right down the middle and tops it off with a lazy ass throw to 1st.

If they can get a some pine tar for him they should do it.

sox1970
07-20-2007, 09:49 PM
He actually wasn't all that bad today. :dunno:

His line is much worse than he pitched. That brutal 5th inning killed him...then he should have been taken out after the "HBP".

I didn't expect to win this one with Contreras on the mound, but he gave us a chance. Ozzie really ****ed this one up in the 5th.

He gave up a 3-run homer in the first, that was called wrong. There's no debating Contreras is just a liability out there, and has been for an entire year now.

CLR01
07-20-2007, 09:51 PM
He actually wasn't all that bad today. :dunno:

His line is much worse than he pitched. That brutal 5th inning killed him...then he should have been taken out after the "HBP".

I didn't expect to win this one with Contreras on the mound, but he gave us a chance. Ozzie really ****ed this one up in the 5th. One of the few times you can put a loss on the manager.

He gave up 10 runs (should have been at least 12, thanks for the gift). That's not much of a chance. :dunno:

oeo
07-20-2007, 09:52 PM
He gave up a 3-run homer in the first, that was called wrong. There's no debating Contreras is just a liability out there, and has been for an entire year now.

Yeah, and outside of that first inning he wasn't bad. The 5th inning is on Ozzie, and then he was kept in too long. I've seen much worse from him this year, especially lately.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 09:52 PM
The anger of the bar patrons at the remote remind me of old Heavy Fuel Crew remotes when the crowd would scream for McNeil to "shoot" the offending caller off the air.

oeo
07-20-2007, 09:53 PM
He gave up 10 runs (should have been at least 12, thanks for the gift). That's not much of a chance. :dunno:

Read CLR.

That 5th inning should have never happened without Ozzie's brain fart. Then I said he was kept in too long. He kept us in the game until he tired. This is one spot I cannot defend Ozzie...he blew this one. Contreras has been much, much worse, and again he pitched better then his stats indicate.

Brian26
07-20-2007, 09:53 PM
This caller on Rongey right now is unbelievable.

Frater Perdurabo
07-20-2007, 09:56 PM
Is there a team out there that would just take Contreras? They don't have to give the Sox anything in return.

CLR01
07-20-2007, 09:58 PM
Read CLR.

LMAO. Sorry, you're right. The entire 5th is on Ozzie because of the shift and bunt, Jose had nothing to do with the walk to Varitek, the triple to Crisp or the single to Ortiz. Jose was the ****ing man before and after that. If not for Ozzie Jose only gives up 1. Gotta love you bull****.


:rolling:

soxfanreggie
07-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Someone said this place is dead...could it be because

A) Everyone is in line getting their Harry Potter book.

or

B) Everyone is in line getting their Harry Potter book.

The Immigrant
07-20-2007, 10:00 PM
Is there a team out there that would just take Contreras?

Maybe the Mets. I can't see anyone else taking him, at least without the Sox eating most of that salary. If he's not dealt, he should be shut down until September and then showcased again (hopefully with some of his velocity back) with the idea of moving him in the offseason.

I will always be grateful to him for 2005, but right now he is no fun to watch.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 10:05 PM
Rongey just got real testy to an antagonistic caller, telling him "to stop *****ing" about the payroll.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2007, 10:06 PM
As of right now, Jose is an automatic loss. I can't think of a team that would take him.

Viva Medias B's
07-20-2007, 10:07 PM
As of right now, Jose is an automatic loss. I can't think of a team that would take him.

Maybe we could trade him for something meaningful eventually. Weren't we able to get Manos & Co. for Navarro?

vegyrex
07-20-2007, 10:12 PM
What was Ozzie thinking tonight? :?:

oeo
07-20-2007, 10:13 PM
LMAO. Sorry, you're right. The entire 5th is on Ozzie because of the shift and bunt, Jose had nothing to do with the walk to Varitek, the triple to Crisp or the single to Ortiz. Jose was the ****ing man before and after that. If not for Ozzie Jose only gives up 1. Gotta love you bull****.


:rolling:

When did I say he was 'the man?' You're good at putting words in people's mouth. I'm not one to defend Contreras...he sucks, all I'm saying is he wasn't as bad as his stat line looks.

The bunt changed everything in that inning. There were only two hard hit balls during that entire inning: Crisp's triple and even that was on the ground, then Ortiz's single which somehow got down the line with the shift on. He wasn't getting the **** knocked out of him like usual.

It's not like I expect more from you, though. It's just smart ass comment after smart ass comment.

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2007, 10:19 PM
Maybe we could trade him for something meaningful eventually. Weren't we able to get Manos & Co. for Navarro?
Yea...that was a pretty good trade for us...but I don't think we'll be able to get anything like that again.

RockJock07
07-20-2007, 11:07 PM
Yeah, I'm really not sure why Jose is still on this team. I trust Kenny, but where were these changes that he promised? Clearly Jose adds nothing to this team.

Secondly, either Beckett was that dominate tonight or the hitters were just worse than usual.

That shift was just awful, but Ozzie's not at fault. This loss is on Jose and Kenny. Jose for being bad and Kenny for letting him make his start every 5 days.

I love Ranger, I'm pissed that I can't listen since i'm out of town! Go Sox

DrewSox56
07-20-2007, 11:13 PM
What was Ozzie thinking tonight? :?:

My guess? That the BP needs some confidence and a typical FUBAR on Jose's part wasn't the time.

What do you suggest be done? We all know there's nobody to bring in with runners on (bases loaded in fact, and no outs).... Should we kill confidence some more in this BP?

**** Jose - It was his mess - Let him deal with it.

I like to think THAT is what Ozzie was thinking tonight.

Hitmen77
07-20-2007, 11:17 PM
As of right now, Jose is an automatic loss. I can't think of a team that would take him.

You just never know - there may be a team out there desperate enough to make a deal. Regardless, Jose's trade value has got to be dropping. Let's see if Kenny can find a deal either now or in the offseason.

I don't know why Ozzie brought him back in for the 8th inning. With the way Jose has been struggling, why not go to the pen after 7 IP and 5 ER?

RadioheadRocks
07-20-2007, 11:22 PM
As of right now, Jose is an automatic loss. I can't think of a team that would take him.


I concur. Thanks for 2005, but time to move on...

ChiSoxGirl
07-20-2007, 11:33 PM
Rongey just plugged WSI!

That's because me and four other posters went out to Ozzie's tonight!!! :bandance: We chatted him up for an inning or so during the game and DumpJerry told him we were from WSI. When we introduced ourselves via our usernames, he recognized almost all of us. Before he went back to the Score's table, he asked if we were going to stick around for the postgame show. When we confirmed, I kinda figured he'd work WSI into his show somehow, and that was us you heard cheering when he mentioned this place. :cool:

As an aside, Chris Rongey is a really nice, friendly guy. That was the first time I'd met him and he's good to talk Sox baseball with. It was really funny watching his facial expressions when the guy toward the end was moaning about the payroll. In fact, while we were talking to him during the game, he brought up the caller the other night who got into the whole payroll issue and told us the exact same things he told the caller- that the revenue the Sox make goes right back into the payroll and organization.

When Ozzie had the Hinske shift on and Rongey was talking with us, I asked him what he thought the over/under would be on the number of calls he'd get about it- the first two calls he took were about the shift.

A great time was had at Ozzie's tonight! :bandance::bandance:

Nellie_Fox
07-20-2007, 11:41 PM
Only need to go 50-18 from here out. It starts tomorrow.Very do-able.

Our paychecks just got a little larger. :supernana:The word on the street is a 20% raise!

CLR01
07-20-2007, 11:51 PM
Very do-able.

Whoops...I was working with yesterdays figures. They need to go 50-17. That's only .750 ball.

Jurr
07-20-2007, 11:53 PM
Is Jose Contreras 90 years old or is he just pitching like it? Wow. He set quite a tone for himself with the opening day massacre, and hasn't let up since. Amazing.

tebman
07-20-2007, 11:59 PM
That's because me and four other posters went out to Ozzie's tonight!!! :bandance: We chatted him up for an inning or so during the game and DumpJerry told him we were from WSI. When we introduced ourselves via our usernames, he recognized almost all of us. Before he went back to the Score's table, he asked if we were going to stick around for the postgame show. When we confirmed, I kinda figured he'd work WSI into his show somehow, and that was us you heard cheering when he mentioned this place. :cool:

As an aside, Chris Rongey is a really nice, friendly guy. That was the first time I'd met him and he's good to talk Sox baseball with. It was really funny watching his facial expressions when the guy toward the end was moaning about the payroll. In fact, while we were talking to him during the game, he brought up the caller the other night who got into the whole payroll issue and told us the exact same things he told the caller- that the revenue the Sox make goes right back into the payroll and organization.

When Ozzie had the Hinske shift on and Rongey was talking with us, I asked him what he thought the over/under would be on the number of calls he'd get about it- the first two calls he took were about the shift.

A great time was had at Ozzie's tonight! :bandance::bandance:
I can confirm everything ChiSoxGirl says -- I was among the WSI Ambassadors at Ozzie's in Niles tonight and Ranger is a knowledgeable and genuinely friendly guy. A true broadcaster too, as he kept the postgame show moving even through the sludge of inarticulate and ill-informed callers.

And it bears repeating: A great time was had at Ozzie's tonight! :bandance::bandance:

JB98
07-21-2007, 12:00 AM
Just a bad game in every facet for the White Sox. The hitters struck out 12 times and had six 1-2-3 innings. Contreras is done, and apparently, our entire coaching staff was catching some Zs during the fifth inning.

Embarrassing.

SoxSpeed22
07-21-2007, 12:29 AM
Crappy all-around. Makes me wonder if Jose's back, hamstring and hip injuries from last year are still bothering him. Other than that Thome homer, not much else to see.

Fenway
07-21-2007, 01:43 AM
Francona thinks Ozzie thought he had canceled the bunt and he was right Hinske did it on his own.

Johnny Mostil
07-21-2007, 06:44 AM
Whoops...I was working with yesterdays figures. They need to go 50-17. That's only .750 ball.

Now, now--it's only .746 ball. And just think of the postseason momentum (http://www.baseball-reference.com/games/streaks.cgi?games=67&year=ALL&SHOW=TOT&includes=end_year&start_game_val=10&end_game_val=135&teams=CHW&orderby=wins&submit=Find+Streaks) that would build.

BainesHOF
07-21-2007, 07:41 AM
Leaving Contreras in to serve up the grand slam is indefensible, especially given that Contreras is the object of trade talks. To that point, Contreras had thrown over 100 pitches and had already allowed 6 runs. There was NOTHING to be gained by leaving him in. Even if he got out of the inning without further damage, it still wouldn't have been a great start. But allowing 6 runs would have appeared at least somewhat respectable and a murky enough performance to at least let a team interested in trading for him think that he might be able to help.

But no. Ozzie felt the need to leave Contreras in and allow him the opportunity to have an awful start, and further decrease whatever Contreras has left in trade value.

Way to go, Ozzie!

Fenway
07-21-2007, 08:07 AM
But allowing 6 runs would have appeared at least somewhat respectable and a murky enough performance to at least let a team interested in trading for him think that he might be able to help.

But no. Ozzie felt the need to leave Contreras in and allow him the opportunity to have an awful start, and further decrease whatever Contreras has left in trade value.

Way to go, Ozzie!

Well the reality is he should have given up EIGHT

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/EB_JD_hrcall_7.20.07.jpg

MLB admits the umpires blew it
"The replay indicated that [the umpires] did not rule on it correctly, but the replay is from an angle that people down on the field do not have," said vice president of umpiring Mike Port. "All that can be said is that they did the very best from where they were and the replay was what it was."

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/07/21/big_bang_theory/

and the Boston Globe also says this...


Jason Varitek led off the inning with a walk. Then Eric Hinske followed with a bunt single, taking advantage of a defensive shift that left no one near third base. After his first bunt attempt went foul -- and the White Sox didn't figure it out at this point? -- Hinske poked one down to third for a single. Julio Lugo bunted back to the pitcher, but beat out Jose Contreras's throw -- the replay looked like he was out, but you get those calls when you're on big hot streaks -- for another bunt single.

russ99
07-21-2007, 09:58 AM
*** could Contreras possibly have said to Ozzie to convince Ozzie to keep him in the game? A grand slam to Lugo?

SMO
:angry:

No kidding. Down two runs and obviously out of gas, he shouldn't have been pitching in the 8th anyway.
I feel Jose got shafted on this one. Someone covering the left side of the infield on one play and a reliever in the 8th and we'd all be saying Jose had a good game.

wassagstdu
07-21-2007, 10:08 AM
and the Boston Globe also says this...

Quote:
Jason Varitek led off the inning with a walk. Then Eric Hinske followed with a bunt single, taking advantage of a defensive shift that left no one near third base. After his first bunt attempt went foul -- and the White Sox didn't figure it out at this point? -- Hinske poked one down to third for a single. Julio Lugo bunted back to the pitcher, but beat out Jose Contreras's throw -- the replay looked like he was out, but you get those calls when you're on big hot streaks -- for another bunt single.

Ozzie figured a bunt to third was a base hit anyway with Fields there, so why not protect Fields from embarrassment (kind of like he should have protected Contreras in the 8th?) by pulling him out of harm's way? And with Hinske hitting .194 he knew he was overdue for a big hit!

Tragg
07-21-2007, 11:03 AM
Yeah, and outside of that first inning he wasn't bad. The 5th inning is on Ozzie, and then he was kept in too long. I've seen much worse from him this year, especially lately.
We're trying to trade the guy (I think) and now his line is 10 runs, 10 hits. Get him out of there when it looks halfway decent.

Fenway
07-21-2007, 11:05 AM
We're trying to trade the guy (I think) and now his line is 10 runs, 10 hits. Get him out of there when it looks halfway decent.

he might be better in the NL

Look he has never pitched well at Fenway, his ERA was over 9 before last night

SoxSpeed22
07-21-2007, 11:50 AM
he might be better in the NL

Look he has never pitched well at Fenway, his ERA was over 9 before last nightFirst off, are you still angry about that missed home run? It's not like it's going to cost you the pennant, besides, your guys won.
Second, I thought Contreras pitched a lot better than his box score will tell you. After the blown homer, the shift screws him and he makes a bad throw to first, which is two outs that should have but didn't happen. And he had no business being out there in the 8th.

Fenway
07-21-2007, 11:52 AM
First off, are you still angry about that missed home run? It's not like it's going to cost you the pennant, besides, your guys won.
Second, I thought Contreras pitched a lot better than his box score will tell you. After the blown homer, the shift screws him and he makes a bad throw to first, which is two outs that should have but didn't happen. And he had no business being out there in the 8th.


No I'm cool with it now. Thank goodness we won or Remy would be talking about it in 2009

Of course he should not have been out there in the 8th but Jose proably pulled a Bob Gibson saying "you gotta anybody better than me out there?"

Martinigirl
07-21-2007, 12:07 PM
Has anyone read a quote from Ozzie explaining the defense, or lack there of, for the bunt?

TomParrish79
07-21-2007, 12:08 PM
ehh it could be worse

JB98
07-21-2007, 01:25 PM
he might be better in the NL

Look he has never pitched well at Fenway, his ERA was over 9 before last night

Contreras doesn't pitch well anywhere right now. The fact that last night's game was contested in Fenway Park had nothing to do with his incompetence.