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View Full Version : BOSTON GLOBE: Ozzie "We're just not too far away to get good"


Fenway
07-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Ozzie tells the Boston Globe the White Sox will probably stay pat


"There's nothing out there," Guillen said. "I talked to a couple of my players. I said, 'Listen. You think you guys are going somewhere right now, don't.' "

In seven games after the All-Star break before last night, the White Sox were 3-4, though if not for blown leads, they could have been 6-1. That tantalizing prospect is why Guillen said the White Sox will stay pat. With a World Series-pedigree lineup, they still have a chance to make a run.


From Fall Classic to a classic fall (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/07/20/from_fall_classic_to_a_classic_fall/)

White Sox hurting -- and struggling (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/07/20/from_fall_classic_to_a_classic_fall/)

jabrch
07-20-2007, 08:38 AM
Spin and posturing. KW and OG have to know we are done. The question is how much can we get for a guy like Dye, and is it worth trading him or is it better to keep him and get draft pick compensation for him. That depends on what is out there to get for him.

In the meantime, OG and KW should be saying we are still in it and that we don't want to make a move. No reason to make yourself sound desperate.

balke
07-20-2007, 08:47 AM
I like what Hawk said last night during the rain delay.

"Last seasons team is the best White Sox team that's ever been assembled since I"ve been here. They were a terrible disappointment. This years team, noone saw this coming". -Quote not exact, but close.

This is a great team *when healthy*. Get the bullpen fixed, stand pat and dominate next season. That's the only choice they have at this point. They've got some great players that are underperforming, and why dump them? They can probably afford to lose Iguchi and some young talent. They can hope Macdougal gets back to form, or they can try and find a solid set-up man. I just think things are going to be exact opposite next season.

champagne030
07-20-2007, 09:40 AM
I like what Hawk said last night during the rain delay.

"Last seasons team is the best White Sox team that's ever been assembled since I"ve been here. They were a terrible disappointment. This years team, noone saw this coming". -Quote not exact, but close.

This is a great team *when healthy*. Get the bullpen fixed, stand pat and dominate next season. That's the only choice they have at this point. They've got some great players that are underperforming, and why dump them? They can probably afford to lose Iguchi and some young talent. They can hope Macdougal gets back to form, or they can try and find a solid set-up man. I just think things are going to be exact opposite next season.

You're kidding right? The *when healthy* is part of the problem. You cannot count on Pods or GrindErstad to be starters, they're brittle. We also need a replacement at SS, Uribe is stealing money from the White Sox (hit up the Dodgers, Braves and Angels and take the best offer). Fixing the bullpen is easier said than done. I don't see payroll jumping $10M next season to get a couple of proven BP arms. And Kenny throwing darts at the board method tried this season has been a colossal disaster. Bukvich has no business near a mound in the major leagues. Ditto Aardsma and Masset until they can hit the side of a barn with a fastball and develope some type of offspeed pitch that can be thrown near the plate.

Flight #24
07-20-2007, 09:44 AM
This is a great team *when healthy*. Get the bullpen fixed, stand pat and dominate next season. That's the only choice they have at this point. They've got some great players that are underperforming, and why dump them? They can probably afford to lose Iguchi and some young talent. They can hope Macdougal gets back to form, or they can try and find a solid set-up man. I just think things are going to be exact opposite next season.

My god. This is terrifying - the prospect that KW and/or OG might actually believe this. You CANNOT rely on Pods and Erstad to stay healthy. You also cannot rely on a bullpen in which 4 guys are of the Bukvich/Sisco/Masset/Aardsma ilk. Maybe 1-2, but you need at least 4 reliable guys if you're going to call yourself a contender.

And that doesn't address SS.

The only thing I agree on is that the offensive cornerstones: Thome, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Iguchi will all be better. If the plan includes resigning JD & Tadahito - that's fine. But there need to be changes at SS, CF/LF, and RP.

gosox41
07-20-2007, 09:48 AM
I like what Hawk said last night during the rain delay.

"Last seasons team is the best White Sox team that's ever been assembled since I"ve been here. They were a terrible disappointment. This years team, noone saw this coming". -Quote not exact, but close.

This is a great team *when healthy*. Get the bullpen fixed, stand pat and dominate next season. That's the only choice they have at this point. They've got some great players that are underperforming, and why dump them? They can probably afford to lose Iguchi and some young talent. They can hope Macdougal gets back to form, or they can try and find a solid set-up man. I just think things are going to be exact opposite next season.

The only way to get the bullpen fixed is to make trades or sign free agents since they don't seem to have a farm system that can supply even a decent reliever (hopefully Haegar will be the first). The Sox payroll is already looking pretty tied up for next year.


Bob

slavko
07-20-2007, 10:39 AM
We are old,
We are slow,
We can't hit,
We can't throw,
We can't catch,
Pen's a mess,
Break it up,
That's my guess.

Tragg
07-20-2007, 10:46 AM
I like what Hawk said last night during the rain delay.

"Last seasons team is the best White Sox team that's ever been assembled since I"ve been here. They were a terrible disappointment. This years team, noone saw this coming". -Quote not exact, but close.

This is a great team *when healthy*. Get the bullpen fixed, stand pat and dominate next season. That's the only choice they have at this point. They've got some great players that are underperforming, and why dump them? They can probably afford to lose Iguchi and some young talent. They can hope Macdougal gets back to form, or they can try and find a solid set-up man. I just think things are going to be exact opposite next season.
This is not a great team when healthy. First, it didn't win squat last year, when healthy. Further, the good hitters are all over 30, some are in decline and some have injury history. We haven't been able to find a CF, for whatever reason - and depending upon a .311 obp guy who has zero power and is oft injured is a joke, regardless if he can make an out to either side of the infield on Ozzie's que. We also have experienced NO injuries in our starting pitching going on THREE years.
No one is talking about dumping players. We have several in contract years: Dye, Iguchi, Uribe, Mack, Erstad, Pods - some of whom might bring some young talent this organization desparately needs.
We have a core of outstanding starting pitching and we need to build around that with some of our vest but also some youth.
Unfortunately, our manager seems to be more intent on taking this team, that just lost 3/4 to lowly Baltimore, and trying to catch the best team in baseball and 2 other top teams, than developing young talent. Hang onto declining veterans, or adding more to your team, and we'll really squander the opportunities that we have in the next few years with this outstanding starting pitching.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 10:55 AM
First, it didn't win squat last year, when healthy.

It won 90 games.

Further, the good hitters are all over 30, some are in decline and some have injury history...We also have experienced NO injuries in our starting pitching going on THREE years.

So our injured guys are due to keep getting injured and our not injured guys are due to get injured soon? I hope you use that logic when evaluating our competition also.

No one is talking about dumping players. We have several in contract years: Dye, Iguchi, Uribe, Mack, Erstad, Pods - some of whom might bring some young talent this organization desparately needs.

I think everyone agrees that for the right offer anyone is available.

Unfortunately, our manager seems to be more intent on taking this team, that just lost 3/4 to lowly Baltimore, and trying to catch the best team in baseball and 2 other top teams, than developing young talent.

I'm glad our manager plays every game to win.

This team will never contend without some good young talent. Develop it, ozzie, instead of chasing a ridiculous notion of closing a 15 game gap on a team with far more talent.

You don't develop talent at the major league level. You develop it at the minor league level. At the major league level, where people are paying the prices we are paying, you play to win.

DickAllen72
07-20-2007, 10:57 AM
Spin and posturing. KW and OG have to know we are done. The question is how much can we get for a guy like Dye, and is it worth trading him or is it better to keep him and get draft pick compensation for him. That depends on what is out there to get for him.

In the meantime, OG and KW should be saying we are still in it and that we don't want to make a move. No reason to make yourself sound desperate.
Exactly right.

DickAllen72
07-20-2007, 10:59 AM
You're kidding right? The *when healthy* is part of the problem. You cannot count on Pods or GrindErstad to be starters, they're brittle.
You can include Thome on that list also. He's always one violent swing away from a trip to the DL.

Flight #24
07-20-2007, 10:59 AM
You don't develop talent at the major league level. You develop it at the minor league level. At the major league level, where people are paying the prices we are paying, you play to win.

This is wrong. Unless you are going to fill almost every position using free agents (expensive), you need to be able to supplement your team with youth from the farm. There will inherently be an adjustment/growing/development period as they make the transition from the minors to the majors. Teams need to allow for that portion of development to occur unless they have Yankee-like resources.

Players can develop only so far in the minors. The last stages of development occur in the majors, and if you want to have productive young players, you need to allow that to happen as the Sox have done with Crede, Garland, and even Rowand. Guys like Buehrle who come up and contribute immediately without growing pains are few and far between. This is not something IMO that the Sox have done well under Ozzie.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 11:08 AM
This is wrong. Unless you are going to fill almost every position using free agents (expensive), you need to be able to supplement your team with youth from the farm. There will inherently be an adjustment/growing/development period as they make the transition from the minors to the majors. Teams need to allow for that portion of development to occur unless they have Yankee-like resources.

Players can develop only so far in the minors. The last stages of development occur in the majors, and if you want to have productive young players, you need to allow that to happen as the Sox have done with Crede, Garland, and even Rowand. Guys like Buehrle who come up and contribute immediately without growing pains are few and far between. This is not something IMO that the Sox have done well under Ozzie.

There are degrees of "development" - but guys have to come up to the majors with all the skills to play. They can not be expected to learn how to do things at the major league level. You grow into being a major leaguer while here (Crede) but you do not develop here. To me, growing and adjusting are major league functions while development is not.

I don't want Ozzie being asked to do the job that our minor league teams should be doing. I want Ozzie going out there to win every day.

Bob G
07-20-2007, 11:23 AM
Maybe I missed this from an earlier thread but most everyone agrees we need a new SS. Why doesn't OG give Alex Gonzalez a shot if that's his natural position? How much worse can he be compared to Uribe?

Tragg
07-20-2007, 11:31 AM
It won 90 games.. Which doesn't make the playoffs.



So our injured guys are due to keep getting injured and our not injured guys are due to get injured soon? I hope you use that logic when evaluating our competition also. . You think it's sheer "bad luck" that we got injured? Dye, Erstad, Pods and Crede all have injury history. Thome gets a nagger every year.

I'm glad our manager plays every game to win.. I agree



You don't develop talent at the major league level. You develop it at the minor league level. At the major league level, where people are paying the prices we are paying, you play to win.
Major league experience is invaluable. All we're talking about is playing some young outfielders, when we're out of the pennant race, and when the replacements aren't particularly good themselves (Pods has certainly helped this team, though).
Actually, I would put some of our best AAA pitchers in the major league pen for development as well (like Floyd who has proven for several years that he can dominate AAA, but has proven zilch against ML hitters).
I guess I look at things long term. We're not going anywhere this year, so prepare for next.

oeo
07-20-2007, 12:22 PM
We are old,
We are slow,
We can't hit,
We can't throw,
We can't catch,
Pen's a mess,
Break it up,
That's my guess.

I guess somebody hasn't watched in a few weeks. :dunno:

We can make some adjustments and be right back in the hunt for a championship next year. For God's sake, bring Sweeney up (who is tearing it up in AAA, BTW)...it's quite possible he can be our starting LF'er next year. I don't know what to do with Fields because he's starting to prove that he belongs up here. Bring Richar up too...we could suddenly have a lot of youth ready. I think the hardest thing for us to find will be a leadoff hitter (no more Pods, please).

Our bullpen...we still haven't seen Wasserman yet, but I have a weird feeling about this guy that he's going to be good for us. Thornton and MacDougal could be back next year...that's how on and off bullpens can be. Sign Scott Linebrink, and maybe trade for another piece (Joaquin Benoit?), and another piece from the minors (Vasquez? Aardsma if he can get a breaking ball? Someone else we haven't seen yet...maybe Russell?).

We can be back next year.

Cuck_The_Fubs
07-20-2007, 12:40 PM
I guess somebody hasn't watched in a few weeks. :dunno:

We can make some adjustments and be right back in the hunt for a championship next year. For God's sake, bring Sweeney up (who is tearing it up in AAA, BTW)...it's quite possible he can be our starting LF'er next year. I don't know what to do with Fields because he's starting to prove that he belongs up here. Bring Richar up too...we could suddenly have a lot of youth ready. I think the hardest thing for us to find will be a leadoff hitter (no more Pods, please).

Our bullpen...we still haven't seen Wasserman yet, but I have a weird feeling about this guy that he's going to be good for us. Thornton and MacDougal could be back next year...that's how on and off bullpens can be. Sign Scott Linebrink, and maybe trade for another piece (Joaquin Benoit?), and another piece from the minors (Vasquez? Aardsma if he can get a breaking ball? Someone else we haven't seen yet...maybe Russell?).

We can be back next year.

We could bring Sweeney up....But we could also do something else: use Terrero/A. Gonzalez for trade bait. It's obvious that KW is trying to get the scouts' attention to look at these guys. Meanwhile, this gives time for Sweeney to refine his swing down at AAA Charlotte. If OG and KW knew that we still had a shot at making the playoffs, they would bring up Sweeney in a heartbeat. I also agree that Sweeney will be our LF'er next season, or at least hope so.

That's my best guess.

JB98
07-20-2007, 12:43 PM
Maybe I missed this from an earlier thread but most everyone agrees we need a new SS. Why doesn't OG give Alex Gonzalez a shot if that's his natural position? How much worse can he be compared to Uribe?

I think you mean Andy Gonzalez. The Sox brass has seen Gonzalez play enough games in the minors to know he's not an everyday answer at SS. His future, if he has one, not sure if he can hit enough, is in the role you see him in now. He's a utility player.

Andy is just not a plus defender at shortstop. The reason Uribe is still out there is because his defense, while flawed, is still clearly superior to both Cintron and Gonzalez.

Bulls_Fan
07-20-2007, 12:45 PM
I think you mean Andy Gonzalez. The Sox brass has seen Gonzalez play enough games in the minors to know he's not an everyday answer at SS. His future, if he has one, not sure if he can hit enough, is in the role you see him in now. He's a utility player.

Andy is just not a plus defender at shortstop. The reason Uribe is still out there is because his defense, while flawed, is still clearly superior to both Cintron and Gonzalez.

I understand why Uribe is still the starting shortstop due to us not having a viable SS prospect in the system (ready to step in right now).

However, I will NOT accept Uribe as the 2008 starting SS of the White Sox.

JB98
07-20-2007, 12:47 PM
I understand why Uribe is still the starting shortstop due to us not having a viable SS prospect in the system (ready to step in right now).

However, I will NOT accept Uribe as the 2008 starting SS of the White Sox.

I would also like to see a change for 2008.

NorthSideSox72
07-20-2007, 12:49 PM
We could bring Sweeney up....But we could also do something else: use Terrero/A. Gonzalez for trade bait. It's obvious that KW is trying to get the scouts' attention to look at these guys. Meanwhile, this gives time for Sweeney to refine his swing down at AAA Charlotte. If OG and KW knew that we still had a shot at making the playoffs, they would bring up Sweeney in a heartbeat. I also agree that Sweeney will be our LF'er next season, or at least hope so.

That's my best guess.
Terrero and Gonzalez will get nothing or next to nothing in trade. You'd be lucky to get a very low level spect for the two of them combined.

JB98
07-20-2007, 12:55 PM
Terrero and Gonzalez will get nothing or next to nothing in trade. You'd be lucky to get a very low level spect for the two of them combined.

I'm thinking the Sox will DFA Terrero when Pods and Erstad come back.

You have Dye, Pods, Erstad, Mack, Owens, Terrero and Gonzalez for the outfield. That's seven players for five spots. Two have to go. If they can't make a trade, Owens probably goes back to Charlotte so he can play everyday. That leaves a decision on Terrero and Gonzalez. They'll probably keep Gonzalez for his versatility.

Cuck_The_Fubs
07-20-2007, 01:24 PM
Terrero and Gonzalez will get nothing or next to nothing in trade. You'd be lucky to get a very low level spect for the two of them combined.
I know that, but that would be the best explanation for putting Terrero/A.Gonzalez in front of Sweeney.

NorthSideSox72
07-20-2007, 01:29 PM
I know that, but that would be the best explanation for putting Terrero/A.Gonzalez in front of Sweeney.
Well, I'd rather see Sweeney up too, but I think the explanation why he isn't is simply that they want Sweeney to develop a little more. He is very young, and has some holes in his swing. I don't think its because they are trying to trade those two.

SOXandILLINI
07-20-2007, 09:18 PM
We are very close..... sorry, I can't type in teal.

A. Cavatica
07-20-2007, 09:25 PM
I remember posts back in 2005 (and earlier) saying "if the Sox could just win one World Series, they could suck for ten years and it wouldn't matter".

Be careful what you wish for...

WhiteSox5187
07-20-2007, 09:56 PM
With a starting rotation as good as this one is (minus Jose) there is no reason why we can't compete next year. We need a new bullpen (although I suppose one can hope that MacDougal and Thornton stay healthy and turn it around next year, but I think a backup plan would be nice). A new shortstop, and I'm curious to see what this kid in Triple A can do at that position. I hope to see him up here in August, if he's any good you can sign a guy like Eckstein and put him in at second. This would also solve your problem for the leadoff spot. A new CF (Aaron Rowand, anyone?). Call up Sweeney, see what he can do in left. I doubt that we're going to be able to trade Dye, but depending on how he finishes the year, I'm not so sure I'd be angry if we re-signed him, depending on the price of course. If he winds up hitting near .250, he might be worth a chance. So defensively here's what I'd have the Sox look like:

C AJ
1B Paulie
2B Eckstein
SS That kid from Triple A (his name eludes me at the moment)
3B Crede/Fields (I haven't made up my mind there yet, I think a healthy Crede deserves a shot though)
LF Sweeney
CF Rowand (I know, I know)
RF Dye? (again, I'm still trying to make up my mind there)
DH Thome

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Javy, Danks, Gio/Floyd

Pen (I'm just going to use setup guys and closer here): Haeger, Logan, Thornton*, MacDougal*, CP Jenks

* Depending on how the season ends up


Now, obviously this is just tentative and come the end of July I might scrap the whole thing, but I think you have a lineup and rotation there that can compete and about the same payroll level we have now. I might be willing to keep Pods on in an incentive laden deal as a fourth OF guy. But back to the core of my point, I think there is no reason why this team can't compete next year.

JB98
07-21-2007, 12:09 AM
With a starting rotation as good as this one is (minus Jose) there is no reason why we can't compete next year. We need a new bullpen (although I suppose one can hope that MacDougal and Thornton stay healthy and turn it around next year, but I think a backup plan would be nice). A new shortstop, and I'm curious to see what this kid in Triple A can do at that position. I hope to see him up here in August, if he's any good you can sign a guy like Eckstein and put him in at second. This would also solve your problem for the leadoff spot. A new CF (Aaron Rowand, anyone?). Call up Sweeney, see what he can do in left. I doubt that we're going to be able to trade Dye, but depending on how he finishes the year, I'm not so sure I'd be angry if we re-signed him, depending on the price of course. If he winds up hitting near .250, he might be worth a chance. So defensively here's what I'd have the Sox look like:

C AJ
1B Paulie
2B Eckstein
SS That kid from Triple A (his name eludes me at the moment)
3B Crede/Fields (I haven't made up my mind there yet, I think a healthy Crede deserves a shot though)
LF Sweeney
CF Rowand (I know, I know)
RF Dye? (again, I'm still trying to make up my mind there)
DH Thome

Rotation: Buerhle, Garland, Javy, Danks, Gio/Floyd

Pen (I'm just going to use setup guys and closer here): Haeger, Logan, Thornton*, MacDougal*, CP Jenks

* Depending on how the season ends up


Now, obviously this is just tentative and come the end of July I might scrap the whole thing, but I think you have a lineup and rotation there that can compete and about the same payroll level we have now. I might be willing to keep Pods on in an incentive laden deal as a fourth OF guy. But back to the core of my point, I think there is no reason why this team can't compete next year.


You are thinking of Richar, and he is a 2B by trade. They are letting him play some SS to see if he can handle the position. If they brought in Eckstein, I think it would be reasonable to keep him at SS and use Richar at 2B.

Your plan isn't that far-fetched. I would add that in my mind, if Crede is healthy, he is our 3B.

FarWestChicago
07-21-2007, 06:51 AM
I remember posts back in 2005 (and earlier) saying "if the Sox could just win one World Series, they could suck for ten years and it wouldn't matter".

Be careful what you wish for...Hey, it could be better. We could be your beloved A's. They are consistently good and they've won...well **** all. :D:

WhiteSox5187
07-21-2007, 12:55 PM
You are thinking of Richar, and he is a 2B by trade. They are letting him play some SS to see if he can handle the position. If they brought in Eckstein, I think it would be reasonable to keep him at SS and use Richar at 2B.

Your plan isn't that far-fetched. I would add that in my mind, if Crede is healthy, he is our 3B.
So do you use Fields as just an extra guy off the bench then? THat's what I'm hung out over the whole Fields v. Crede debate.

JB98
07-21-2007, 01:34 PM
So do you use Fields as just an extra guy off the bench then? THat's what I'm hung out over the whole Fields v. Crede debate.

I think Fields' future is in the outfield or at 1B. That's my impression so far. We'll see if Fields changes my mind in the remaining 67 games. I think he'll eventually make the adjustments at the plate. I'm not sold on him defensively at all.

ViPeRx007
07-21-2007, 02:26 PM
I think Fields' future is in the outfield or at 1B. That's my impression so far. We'll see if Fields changes my mind in the remaining 67 games. I think he'll eventually make the adjustments at the plate. I'm not sold on him defensively at all.

I agree. His hitting has been fine given his experience, but I'm starting to think he needs a new position on defense.

What about 2B for Fields? He seems to get in trouble when he has to rush to throw across the diamond. He can usually get to the ball, but he sometimes juggles it around. Maybe if he's closer to first it would be more comfortable for him.

I don't know, I'm banking on Crede coming back healthy (fingers crossed) so he has to move somewhere.

All I do know is that Crede @ 3B >>>> Fields 3B, and that is pre-surgery Crede.... Hopefully Fields figures something else out though one way or another.

UserNameBlank
07-21-2007, 02:53 PM
I'm thinking the Sox will DFA Terrero when Pods and Erstad come back.

You have Dye, Pods, Erstad, Mack, Owens, Terrero and Gonzalez for the outfield. That's seven players for five spots. Two have to go. If they can't make a trade, Owens probably goes back to Charlotte so he can play everyday. That leaves a decision on Terrero and Gonzalez. They'll probably keep Gonzalez for his versatility.
I hope the Sox aren't dumb enough to do that. Pods and Erstad add vitually nothing, are unreliable, and cost money. Terrero makes nothing, is a fine backup CF, and is healthy. Owens is already better than Pods. At least Jerry can play the game without getting hurt. Plus he's more versatile.

The Sox should DFA Erstad and Pods. Trade Mack to a contender; somebody wants his bat for their bench and we should use his salary for a veteran reliever next year, even if that reliever ends up sucking. Dump Tadahito off on the Mets, even we don't get anything of value; it's obvious the Sox have other plans for 2B and we won't get any draft picks for him per the terms of his contract. The learning time Richar could get does more to help us in 2008 than Iguchi would now. All these moves are no-brainers IMO.

Tragg
07-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Terrero makes nothing, is a fine backup CF, and is healthy. Owens is already better than Pods. At least Jerry can play the game without getting hurt. Plus he's more versatile.

The Sox should DFA Erstad and Pods. Trade Mack to a contender; somebody wants his bat for their bench and we should use his salary for a veteran reliever next year, even if that reliever ends up sucking. Dump Tadahito off on the Mets, even we don't get anything of value; it's obvious the Sox have other plans for 2B and we won't get any draft picks for him per the terms of his contract. The learning time Richar could get does more to help us in 2008 than Iguchi would now. All these moves are no-brainers IMO.
I agree. If the Sox don't plan on re-signing them or if they offer no more production than a league minimum player (which some do not), then actively market them to other teams or DFA them. Don't want to spend yet another season fighting the Royals for 4th place.

JB98
07-21-2007, 05:34 PM
I hope the Sox aren't dumb enough to do that. Pods and Erstad add vitually nothing, are unreliable, and cost money. Terrero makes nothing, is a fine backup CF, and is healthy. Owens is already better than Pods. At least Jerry can play the game without getting hurt. Plus he's more versatile.

The Sox should DFA Erstad and Pods. Trade Mack to a contender; somebody wants his bat for their bench and we should use his salary for a veteran reliever next year, even if that reliever ends up sucking. Dump Tadahito off on the Mets, even we don't get anything of value; it's obvious the Sox have other plans for 2B and we won't get any draft picks for him per the terms of his contract. The learning time Richar could get does more to help us in 2008 than Iguchi would now. All these moves are no-brainers IMO.

Owens is already better than Pods? I completely disagree. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a statement on this board that I disagree with more.

In fact, I completely disagree with this entire post. Neither Erstad nor Pods has played poorly when healthy. You don't DFA people just because they got injured. That's a chicken **** way of doing business.

There's no reason to dump Tadahito unless we can get something of value in return.

JB98
07-21-2007, 05:36 PM
I agree. If the Sox don't plan on re-signing them or if they offer no more production than a league minimum player (which some do not), then actively market them to other teams or DFA them. Don't want to spend yet another season fighting the Royals for 4th place.

When Pods and Erstad come back, you play them everyday and try to showcase them for other teams. Make a trade if possible. You don't DFA them. That's not the right way to treat people.

Tragg
07-21-2007, 05:45 PM
In fact, I completely disagree with this entire post. Neither Erstad nor Pods has played poorly when healthy. You don't DFA people just because they got injured. That's a chicken **** way of doing business.

There's no reason to dump Tadahito unless we can get something of value in return. I agree with you on Pods. RE Iguchi, if we don't plan on re-signing him, I dont' see what difference it really makes.

The reason to DFA them is not because they are injured. It's because we need major upgrades in the outfield to be a championship team, so we just as soon get on with upgrading, and that includes the business of seeing what we have in house.
I think we should try to trade them, not DFA them though.
If we leave the team constructed the way it was this year, it means we have 2 doink hitters in the outfield. We better have a sharp hitting 2B, 3B and SS if that's the case.

JB98
07-21-2007, 05:54 PM
I agree with you on Pods. RE Iguchi, if we don't plan on re-signing him, I dont' see what difference it really makes.

The reason to DFA them is not because they are injured. It's because we need major upgrades in the outfield to be a championship team, so we just as soon get on with upgrading, and that includes the business of seeing what we have in house.
I think we should try to trade them, not DFA them though.
If we leave the team constructed the way it was this year, it means we have 2 doink hitters in the outfield. We better have a sharp hitting 2B, 3B and SS if that's the case.

I think we should make every effort to trade Pods and Erstad. They should not be in the plans for next year, IMO. On that, I think you and I agree. I just take exception to the idea that we should DFA them.

If they were playing poorly, or had attitude problems, different story. But you don't DFA guys who give their best effort to the team just because you want to look at younger players. That's bad business, and it's a good way to create bad will in your clubhouse. Other players notice antics like that.

I don't think I'm ready to make final judgement on whether Iguchi should be retained. Therefore, I would only trade him if I could get somebody who can help us in return. Otherwise, let Tad play out the season and make a decision on him later. If we decide we don't want him, fine, but I don't see the point in trading him for garbage.

UserNameBlank
07-21-2007, 06:53 PM
Owens is already better than Pods? I completely disagree. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a statement on this board that I disagree with more.

In fact, I completely disagree with this entire post. Neither Erstad nor Pods has played poorly when healthy. You don't DFA people just because they got injured. That's a chicken **** way of doing business.

There's no reason to dump Tadahito unless we can get something of value in return.
Notice I said "is." Pods isn't healthy. That's why Jerry is better. At least Jerry can play. Jerry probably will never come close to Pods' one year with Milwaukee or his first half of '05, but that doesn't mean anything. He can run the bases with confidence whereas Pods can't.

Cut-throat maybe, but certainly not chicken ****. Pods and Erstad have no value to this organization either now in the present or in the future, so you dump them and cut your losses. I know you'll probably cry, but there is a wide perception around the league that neither have anything to offer anymore. If they want to change that perception they will each have to get healthy, stay healthy, and have a good, full year somewhere. A rebuilding White Sox team is not the place for them to re-establish themselves.

I personally couldn't care less about the careers of Scott Podsednik and Darin Erstad. I do however care about the 2008 White Sox, and if the 2008 White Sox team is going to be comprised of young players, that team will only be better if those players receive experience during the wasted 2007 campaign.

UserNameBlank
07-21-2007, 07:00 PM
When Pods and Erstad come back, you play them everyday and try to showcase them for other teams. Make a trade if possible. You don't DFA them. That's not the right way to treat people.
Oh, boo hoo. If dumping them makes us better in the future that is what you do. I doubt Pods or Erstad, who have made several millions of dollars during their careers, are going to cry if they are DFA'd. Especially Pods. Oh, poor Pods living in his mansion with his Playboy playmate wife just got DFA'd... Gimme a break.

If either player is DFA'd that means the Sox have IIRC 15 days to trade them or release them. If they are given outright releases someone will take a flier on each of them as bench players. They will still have a job, and even if not, then they can take the year off and rehabilitate in order to have a healthy shot at 2008 with a different ballclub.

santo=dorf
07-21-2007, 08:21 PM
When Pods and Erstad come back, you play them everyday and try to showcase them for other teams. Make a trade if possible. You don't DFA them. That's not the right way to treat people.
When they come back the Sox will have about a week to "showcase" them. I can't imagine a team making a decision to acquire a guy based on one week of play after after coming back off the DL and when the player has a history of injuries.

The Sox won't DFA Terrero. He signed a minor league contract so he can be sent down.

Jerry Owens is pretty useless as anything above a pinch runner/5th OF. He had a double in his first two games played, but hasn't had an extra base hit since. It'd be nice to see a gapper that turns into a triple or a bloop single that turns into a hustling double from him.

ThomesHomie
07-22-2007, 02:27 AM
We will make no run if we continue with this bull pen roster. I'm sold on that, face the facts, we can't get it done in the bull pen.

WSox597
07-22-2007, 07:40 AM
Owens seems to be locked in a rut hitting ground balls to the infield. It's like he can't hit the ball in the air. I'm not sure how that can be fixed, unless more at-bats takes care of it.

The Sox need his speed on the base paths desperately, and he doesn't seem injury prone.

I believe it's time to end the career of Pods on the south side. DFA isn't the way to do it, though. As others have mentioned, it sends the wrong message to older players.

Nobody is going to hold a tag day for Pods when he leaves, he's made plenty of money, but all careers come to an end. And with his history of injuries, his time may be here.

The way things are going this year, the bullpen and injuries and managerial brain cramps, I agree it's time to bring up Sweeney and see exactly what he offers. When Anderson is back from his injury, bring him back up and see if he's learned anything about hitting. We know he can field pretty well.

I have no idea what to do about this bullpen. And that puts me in good company, because neither does anyone else. Management included, apparently.