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View Full Version : Step back from the ledge, people...


Kilroy
04-04-2002, 07:54 AM
Panic is inappropriate at this point. Ask yourself what you expected the Sox record to be coming out of Seattle. And be honest. I don't think that anyone realistically thought they'd sweep, or even take two. I know that I just wanted them to get one and be competitive the whole series.

The Sox were better than that. They had a shot at winning the two games they dropped, and really should have won last night. But it feels much worse because of they way they lost them.

I'm not gonna get down on them after the 3rd game. They lost two to a very good team. I can deal with that. But going into KC and Detroit, I have different expectations. We should get 3 this weekend, and at least 2 in Motown.

duke of dorwood
04-04-2002, 09:05 AM
Me either-we will get away with playing this way against the mediocre teams. That should keep us competitive. Aren't we always competitive?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-04-2002, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Panic is inappropriate at this point. Ask yourself what you expected the Sox record to be coming out of Seattle. And be honest. I don't think that anyone realistically thought they'd sweep, or even take two. I know that I just wanted them to get one and be competitive the whole series.

The Sox were better than that. They had a shot at winning the two games they dropped, and really should have won last night. But it feels much worse because of they way they lost them.

I'm not gonna get down on them after the 3rd game. They lost two to a very good team. I can deal with that. But going into KC and Detroit, I have different expectations. We should get 3 this weekend, and at least 2 in Motown.

Kilroy, I want you with me when I attend my next family funeral.

:)

Pete Ward
04-04-2002, 10:08 AM
If we lose the division by 2 games will anybody remember these 2 blown games?

:angry:

bjmarte
04-04-2002, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by Pete Ward
If we lose the division by 2 games will anybody remember these 2 blown games?

:angry: If we lose the division by two games I'm sure there will be plenty of blown games to look back on.

Kilroy
04-04-2002, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Kilroy, I want you with me when I attend my next family funeral.

:)

I do work to find the positives. A couple more like the last two, and it'll be damn near impossible.

I'd still be interested in people posting how they expected the Sox to come out of Seattle...

Iwritecode
04-04-2002, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy
I do work to find the positives. A couple more like the last two, and it'll be damn near impossible.

I'd still be interested in people posting how they expected the Sox to come out of Seattle...

Honestly, before the season started, I was hoping to at least come out with one win. In game 2 I was starting to think we make take 2. Last night in the ninth inning, I was pretty sure we would take 2. So they actually did what I originally expected. It's just heartbreaking knowing they could have (and should have) come away with 2.

Oh well, a 20 game stretch against Baltimore, Detroit and Cleveland should hopefully boost everyones confidence and the Sox position in the standings. Then after that maybe we can get a little revenge on Seattle. :cool:

voodoochile
04-04-2002, 11:34 AM
I was expecting them to win 1 or 2 games in this series. I know we could have won three if things had gone better, but such is the way of the world. Seattle is a good team that is very patient and our bullpen had a rough series. If that continues, we will have problems, but I think Foulke is going to be fine and I expect the middle relievers to improve. Glover says he found a flaw in his delivery and hopes that by correcting it he will solve his recent struggles.

Still, if someone told me before the series that our starters would pitch as well as they did,

I would have expected at least 2 wins. That in and of itself is promising, because relief pitching is always cheaper to acquire than starting pitching, so if the problem persists, look for KW to make a trade before too much longer. But, even if our bullpen struggles, we should be able to keep it around .500 until the bullpen finds a rhythm and the injured arms heal enough to let them contribute more...

Sox are okay, people, this was just a tough series against a talented, experienced, patient team. Like Kilroy said, step back from the ledge. Man, I hope someone bookmarks these threads for a good laugh come August...

cheeses_h_rice
04-04-2002, 11:44 AM
Put me firmly in the camp of being far from the ledge.

Sure, I'm disappointed. Last night was a toughie to take.

But take a look at what this team is doing vs. how we appeared in Spring Training, and you have to feel pretty good. We all know Foulke isn't this bad; he's proven that over and over. He just has to work out some kinks in his arm or his head. But to see Wright, Osuna, Ritchie, Lofton, etc. doing so well is highly encouraging.

It's only 3 games. There are 53 more 3-game blocks during the season. The Sox have plenty of time to right this ship....

Procol Harum
04-04-2002, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Put me firmly in the camp of being far from the ledge.

Me too. But I have caught myself eyeing the oven...

bjmarte
04-04-2002, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Procol Harum


Me too. But I have caught myself eyeing the oven...

I just don't understand the panic. Yes my initial reaction upon waking up this morning and seeing the score (I wend to bed when it was 6-3) was an unpleasant one.

But when you look at the game it was actually played pretty well by our guys. Keith Foulke had a bad night and that isn't going to happen all that often. If it hadn't been for that we would have won that game. JM even let the bullpen pitch last night, using only Osuna to get to Foulke. Even the Choice hit a homer!

There is nothing about this game to be unhappy about other than Foulke's perfomance (and the outcome of course). If you want to stick your head in the oven go ahead but I'm gonna wait a while.

Procol Harum
04-04-2002, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by bjmarte
If you want to stick your head in the oven go ahead but I'm gonna wait a while.

As I said, I was only eyeing it . . . the burden of history is a heavy load to carry.

voodoochile
04-04-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by bjmarte


I just don't understand the panic. Yes my initial reaction upon waking up this morning and seeing the score (I wend to bed when it was 6-3) was an unpleasant one.

But when you look at the game it was actually played pretty well by our guys. Keith Foulke had a bad night and that isn't going to happen all that often. If it hadn't been for that we would have won that game. JM even let the bullpen pitch last night, using only Osuna to get to Foulke. Even the Choice hit a homer!

There is nothing about this game to be unhappy about other than Foulke's perfomance (and the outcome of course). If you want to stick your head in the oven go ahead but I'm gonna wait a while.

Hey, Carlos Lee not only hit a ton during the series, but he made two great defensive plays too - This was a frustrating but encouraging way to start the year, IMO. Let's see how the next few weeks come out - I imagine most of us will be quite pleased by the results...

rmusacch
04-04-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy
Panic is inappropriate at this point. Ask yourself what you expected the Sox record to be coming out of Seattle. And be honest. I don't think that anyone realistically thought they'd sweep, or even take two. I know that I just wanted them to get one and be competitive the whole series.

The Sox were better than that. They had a shot at winning the two games they dropped, and really should have won last night. But it feels much worse because of they way they lost them.

I'm not gonna get down on them after the 3rd game. They lost two to a very good team. I can deal with that. But going into KC and Detroit, I have different expectations. We should get 3 this weekend, and at least 2 in Motown.

I would not have a problem with it if they were not blowing the leads late in the game. If they cannot hold a lead late in the game, it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

Paulwny
04-04-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
Put me firmly in the camp of being far from the ledge.


Also me but I went out and bought the jumbo bottle of Rolaids.

KempersRS
04-04-2002, 02:06 PM
I have no faith in the bullpen at all, and I still think this team will be OK. The lineup hasn't even begun to produce the way they are capable of. This team will be putting up HUGE numbers on offense once the seasons gets rolling a little fruther along. The starting pitching has been much better than I expected it to be so far. 3 solid starts, I would have expected one or two of these guys to flop in Seattle. Decent starting pitching and a monster lineup will win games. Give them a few weeks before you pull the trigger.

voodoochile
04-04-2002, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


I would not have a problem with it if they were not blowing the leads late in the game. If they cannot hold a lead late in the game, it does not bode well for the rest of the season.

Blowing leads to Seattle in Seattle is nothing new. They even have an expression for it - Josh Paulitus - sorry - that's the inability to run the bases in Seattle - the one I am refering to is called - SoDo MoJo. They did it all the time last year on there way to 116 wins. Not happy that it happened, but that is a deep patient talented lineup.

Besides, I totally agree with the point in the other thread - if Royce grabs that hot grounder (and he should for that much money), we are all jumping up and down over the Sox 2-1 series win to open the season in Seattle and moaning about the game that the bullpen gave away in game 2.

If we blow a bunch of leads to KC, Detroit, Baltimore and Cleveland in the next few weeks then I'll be more concerned. Sox/M's might be the matchup in the ALDS this year. I would love a chance to play these games again when it counts...

Kilroy
04-04-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Besides, I totally agree with the point in the other thread - if Royce grabs that hot grounder (and he should for that much money), we are all jumping up and down over the Sox 2-1 series win to open the season in Seattle and moaning about the game that the bullpen gave away in game 2.

I totally agree with the point in the other thread that if Keith Foulke doesn't give up 6 hits in the bottom of the 9th (and he shouldn't for 6 million per which he signed for in December), we are all jumping up and down over the Sox 2-1 series win to open the season in Seattle and moaning about the game that the bullpen gave away in game 2.

voodoochile
04-04-2002, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


I totally agree with the point in the other thread that if Keith Foulke doesn't give up 6 hits in the bottom of the 9th (and he shouldn't for 6 million per which he signed for in December), we are all jumping up and down over the Sox 2-1 series win to open the season in Seattle and moaning about the game that the bullpen gave away in game 2.

I didn't even see the box score yet... They did not give Royce an error? Too funny...

Iwritecode
04-04-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
I didn't even see the box score yet... They did not give Royce an error? Too funny...

And we all wonder why his error totals are so low...

But as I said before, I will give him the benefit of the doubt at least for the first two weeks or so and see what happens. Althougth his 1 for the season isn't helping so far...

That was a pretty tough play last night though and I'll give him the fact that the ump got in the way for now. I just hope he starts proving me wrong and making me forget about Crede for at least a little while.

:)

Paulwny
04-04-2002, 02:49 PM
This is my concern with Foulke.
I heard this last year, the other team's (?) color commentator, "Foulke has 2 pitches, the fast ball and the change, until they get 2 strikes batters should sit on the fast ball"
Has the league caught on to Foulke?

CerberusWG
04-04-2002, 02:56 PM
Foulke has a Curveball. He just doesn't throw it.

Paulwny
04-04-2002, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Foulke has a Curveball. He just doesn't throw it.

If he can't throw it for a strike it's useless.

moochpuppy
04-04-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


I'd still be interested in people posting how they expected the Sox to come out of Seattle...

I thought the Sox would come out of Seattle 2-1. The Sox played the M's very good last seaon finishing 4-5 against them.

RedPinStripes
04-04-2002, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Kilroy, I want you with me when I attend my next family funeral.

:)
*****!!!!!!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

RedPinStripes
04-04-2002, 03:24 PM
Relax..............I see the Sox playing the bully in the next 6 games.
6-3 at the worst by next thursday.

:cleo

HawkDJ
04-04-2002, 04:36 PM
Seriously, people need to simmer down. Sure, it was a tough loss to take but like someone already said, the Mariners won 116 games by doing exactly this. We are definitly not the first to blow a lead to them in the 9th and I can promise you we are not the last. It has only been 3 games. There are just so many games to be played. You guys are almost acting like Cubs fans last year who told me they would be in the World Series because of their hot start playing bad teams.

We just need to move on. We need to realize our bullpen isn't fantastic, but also realize Parque, Biddle and Wunsch are not even on the the team yet.

It looks like the majority of us are acting the same as me which is good. I base that on this thread and the "Is the Sky Falling?" thread. I'm glad we are not overreacting.

hold2dibber
04-04-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Paulwny
This is my concern with Foulke.
I heard this last year, the other team's (?) color commentator, "Foulke has 2 pitches, the fast ball and the change, until they get 2 strikes batters should sit on the fast ball"
Has the league caught on to Foulke?

Everyone in the league has known for years that Foulke only has two pitches. But they can't just "sit on the fastball" because (and this is the reason that Foulke has been effective) batters cannot tell the difference between the fastball and the change up until it's too late. They may think they're sitting on a fastball and then take a nice hack, only to be 2 feet ahead of what turned out to be a changeup. The reason for Foulke's problems thus far is that he doesn't have command of his change up. He has that problem every once in a while; it never lasts for more than a few games, than he gets the feel back and he's solid again. That's exactly what will happen this time, too (and, despite the problems, the only ball last night that was hit hard against him was the Sierra grounder that Clayton (arguably) should have fielded and turned into a game ending DP).

Mathew
04-04-2002, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Blowing leads to Seattle in Seattle is nothing new. They even have an expression for it - Josh Paulitus - sorry - that's the inability to run the bases in Seattle - the one I am refering to is called - SoDo MoJo. They did it all the time last year on there way to 116 wins. Not happy that it happened, but that is a deep patient talented lineup.

Besides, I totally agree with the point in the other thread - if Royce grabs that hot grounder (and he should for that much money), we are all jumping up and down over the Sox 2-1 series win to open the season in Seattle and moaning about the game that the bullpen gave away in game 2.

If we blow a bunch of leads to KC, Detroit, Baltimore and Cleveland in the next few weeks then I'll be more concerned. Sox/M's might be the matchup in the ALDS this year. I would love a chance to play these games again when it counts...

This is after game 2
I was waiting to see if any one else posted this but I guess not since it was the Canadian press.
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/SEA/readstory.asp?story_id=2283338

They do it to a lot of teams, and had it done to them too, it's why they play all nine innings and not 8.

Jerry_Manuel
04-04-2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile
Sox/M's might be the matchup in the ALDS this year. I would love a chance to play these games again when it counts...

The Sox don't want any piece of Seattle. I've said for months now that the Sox will not make the playoffs. If they do somehow get in, Seattle is the last team they want to see. Seattle has a horseshoe up it's ass, they are the luckiest bastards, I've seen in awhile. I'd rather see them take on the A's, or the Yankees.

FarWestChicago
04-04-2002, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


The Sox don't want any piece of Seattle.Who did you talk to on the Sox that told you they don't want any part of Seattle? Frank, Maggs, Manos? Who told you this?

Jerry_Manuel
04-04-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Who did you talk to on the Sox that told you they don't want any part of Seattle? Frank, Maggs, Manos? Who told you this?

Just my opinion, if they match up with Seattle, it'll be 2000 all over again.

Spiff
04-04-2002, 08:57 PM
The bullpen sucked, but Maggs and Frank went a combined 5-22 (.227). That won't get it done either.

I would tend to agree with Jerry about Seattle. I hate it when the Sox play them, they just seem to get all the breaks. Nothing ever comes easy there.

RedPinStripes
04-05-2002, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Just my opinion, if they match up with Seattle, it'll be 2000 all over again.

I'll take the Shanghi Mariners over the YankMees.

Vsahajpal
04-05-2002, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00
The bullpen sucked, but Maggs and Frank went a combined 5-22 (.227). That won't get it done either.

I would tend to agree with Jerry about Seattle. I hate it when the Sox play them, they just seem to get all the breaks. Nothing ever comes easy there.

I would say it came easy enough. Talk about a litmus test, the Sox roll into Seattle, who tied a record for wins last season, and should've swept them. The biggest question was the starting rotation, and I'd say they outpitched the Seattle staff.

I realize it's a moot point, but still.

The Sox will take the division.

doublem23
04-05-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
The Sox will take the division.

Can you believe this guy still claims to be a Cub fan? :D:

Clarkdog
04-05-2002, 09:08 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


The reason for Foulke's problems thus far is that he doesn't have command of his change up. He has that problem every once in a while; it never lasts for more than a few games, than he gets the feel back and he's solid again.

Exactly right h2d. When Foulke can't get his change over. He will get shelled. Hitters will know that if it looks like a strike, it's a fastball.

Paulwny
04-05-2002, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by hold2dibber


Everyone in the league has known for years that Foulke only has two pitches. But they can't just "sit on the fastball" because (and this is the reason that Foulke has been effective) batters cannot tell the difference between the fastball and the change up until it's too late.

He always throws more fsatballs then changes. Until a batter has 2 strikes his odds are better looking and gearing himself for the fastball instead of guessing.