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View Full Version : Ervin Santana anyone???


letsgosox1592
07-18-2007, 07:33 PM
He got sent down today by the Angels and I was wondering what you think about him and if you would like him on the Sox. I would like him on the team cause hes got a lot of potential and still very young. He has struggled this year but he did win 16 games last year. What do you think?

Dan Mega
07-18-2007, 07:59 PM
How would we get him? I'm thinking LAA would want a lot for him.

mjmcend
07-18-2007, 08:01 PM
He got sent down today by the Angels and I was wondering what you think about him and if you would like him on the Sox. I would like him on the team cause hes got a lot of potential and still very young. He has struggled this year but he did win 16 games last year. What do you think?

Sure, why not? There are very few players in the major leagues that wouldn't be worth acquiring for depth and growth-potential reasons, assuming unlimited or vast financial resources. But the important question is at what price is it worth it to acquire him. Knowing Stoneman's reluctance to trade away young players, I have no doubt it would be a steep price and therefore not worth it.

CubsfansareDRUNK
07-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Eventually? Yes. Right now? No. Starting pitching is NOT the problem at this point. I like the idea, but before we do, let's address some of our current issues.

chisoxmike
07-18-2007, 08:19 PM
Maybe Coop could work his magic.

Oldschoolsoxguy
07-18-2007, 08:24 PM
The starter magic or the bullpen magic ?

Lip Man 1
07-18-2007, 08:27 PM
Wasn't he rumored to be part of a deal this past off season for Crede?

Just recently saw a story in The Sporting News on the Angels and apparently they are loaded with pitchers at the Triple A level.

Lip

Oldschoolsoxguy
07-18-2007, 08:33 PM
The Angels are in good shape with their kids pitchers on the farm.Santana drives them nuts because for the most part,he's a different guy when pitching on the road.Loads of talent though.He is kind of like Vazquez in the sense that you are always left expecting more than he delivers.I think the Angels tried to send him our way in any deal but a friend of mine who works in the Angel front office out here said that Kenny Williams insisted on getting John Lackey instead and that killed any trade talk regarding Crede.

KyWhiSoxFan
07-18-2007, 09:30 PM
The guy has talent. Maybe he would do well in the bullpen.

thomas35forever
07-18-2007, 09:52 PM
Doesn't this belong in What's the Score?

santo=dorf
07-18-2007, 10:21 PM
Ervin Santana is absolutely worthless from Anaheim.

PERIOD.

I bet if his name was Billy Johnson, there wouldn't be such a fascination with the guy. He's no longer Johan Santana, and by that I mean his name is no longer Johan Santana. He's never been as good as the Twins pitcher.

pearso66
07-18-2007, 10:26 PM
Santana for Dye?

then trade Jose for other needs

Domeshot17
07-18-2007, 10:26 PM
Ummmm, whats the score dude?

letsgosox1592
07-18-2007, 10:30 PM
Doesn't this belong in What's the Score?

I didnt know and I thought it belonged in here. Sorry if its suppose to be in What's the Score

santo=dorf
07-18-2007, 10:32 PM
Just look how atrocious the fake Johan is away from Anaheim:

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/3200_P_season__ha_full_0_20070717.png
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/3200_P_season__ha_full_6_20070717.png

http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs/3200_P_season__ha_full_4_20070717.png


I am fully convinced that if this guy's last name wasn't Santana, nobody would be licking their chops to get him.

Nellie_Fox
07-19-2007, 01:08 AM
Moved by popular demand. :tongue:

FedEx227
07-19-2007, 04:16 AM
It's sad because last year he showed so much promise, despite his road struggles. But it's gotten ridiculously bad this year, I always thought he had good stuff, but had a Vazquez-like head-case.

Grzegorz
07-19-2007, 06:00 AM
Do the Chicago White Sox want to take on another project at this time? I think not; the White Sox want to rebound in 2008 and make the playoffs.

for all the talk of KW rolling the dice on the bullpen this year I fail to see how his roll of the dice in 2007 would be any different than a roll of the dice on Santana in 2008.

SoxandtheCityTee
07-19-2007, 08:48 AM
I saw he was sent down and was surprised to see how bad his numbers were. Guess I haven't been paying much attention to LAA. Unless or until someone knows (or thinks they know) what is wrong with young Ervin, I think the Sox have enough problems without adding starting ptiching to the list.

kjhanson
07-19-2007, 12:03 PM
Just look how atrocious the fake Johan is away from Anaheim:
...
I am fully convinced that if this guy's last name wasn't Santana, nobody would be licking their chops to get him.

You want some real damning split evidence against him?

In Wins: 33-0 2.46
In Losses: 0-27 9.23 ERA

I only want him pitching at home and in wins!

His home and away splits are terrible though. He gives up a HR every 45 ABs at home and every 19 on the road. His numbers have been just plain mediocre throughout his career but he had that outstanding debut in 2005 that handed Garland his first loss of the year. I think that sticks out in the minds of most Sox fans who desire him.

UserNameBlank
07-19-2007, 12:22 PM
It's sad because last year he showed so much promise, despite his road struggles. But it's gotten ridiculously bad this year, I always thought he had good stuff, but had a Vazquez-like head-case.
I wouldn't mind picking him up if he could be had for a reasonable package. Vazquez, apart from the sixth and seventh innings, had a terrific year in '06. This year he's put all that behind him. We also have Floyd doing much better than I and probably many others thought in Triple A. Contreras was also a headcase that got it turned around here. Then again, Sisco was a headcase and still is.

Anyway, I like our chances with Ervin. He has the ability and is worth a shot. If the Sox are giving up on re-signing Dye (which I could see if the recent report that Dye's agent brought up CLee's contract as a negotiating point) I think a Santana-for-Dye straight up deal would be worth it. The Angels get a big bat who is coming around now and 2 draft picks if he doesn't come back, and the Sox get a pitcher who is already in the Majors with some serious talent.

letsgosox1592
07-19-2007, 12:58 PM
I would love for the Sox to trade Jose Contreras and Jermaine Dye for Ervin Santana and Brandon Wood. Jermaine would get a potent bat to bat after Vladdy and Jose can be a contributor in the playoff run and playoffs. While for the Sox they get Santana to be a starter with a ton of potential and Brandon Wood to play short for a very long time.

kittle42
07-19-2007, 01:25 PM
Why do we want another "project?" What is wrong with some of you? Ugh.

DSpivack
07-19-2007, 01:31 PM
I would love for the Sox to trade Jose Contreras and Jermaine Dye for Ervin Santana and Brandon Wood. Jermaine would get a potent bat to bat after Vladdy and Jose can be a contributor in the playoff run and playoffs. While for the Sox they get Santana to be a starter with a ton of potential and Brandon Wood to play short for a very long time.

Dream On! :rolleyes:

More evidence of Sox fans overrating their teams' players.

spiffie
07-19-2007, 01:36 PM
Why do we want another "project?" What is wrong with some of you? Ugh.
I think Santana would be different. We've seen he can succeed at the major league level. He's not a failed draft pick or a middle reliever with issues. This kid's problem is all in his head. And if the Sox could find the way to fix that you've added another major young talent with a few years of cheap contracts yet to come.

oeo
07-19-2007, 02:11 PM
Why do we want another "project?" What is wrong with some of you? Ugh.

We had a project in Contreras at the end of 2004 and that worked out pretty well. :dunno:

Why would you be against it right now? Our playoff hopes are slashed...we should start getting ready for 2008.

Dream On! :rolleyes:

More evidence of Sox fans overrating their teams' players.

Every fan of every team does that.

soxfan13
07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
We had a project in Contreras at the end of 2004 and that worked out pretty well. :dunno:

Why would you be against it right now? Our playoff hopes are slashed...we should start getting ready for 2008.



Every fan of every team does that.

Love butting heads with you but I completely agree with you on this. I dont think Santana is a project, I think it is more that he has lost some confidence and it has snow balled on him this year. Saying that I would take him in a heart beat.

TheVulture
07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
He's never been as good as the Twins pitcher.

Thanks for setting us straight.

He did win 16 games last year at age 23, but obviously he's worthless.

TheVulture
07-19-2007, 02:52 PM
Do the Chicago White Sox want to take on another project at this time? I think not; the White Sox want to rebound in 2008 and make the playoffs.

for all the talk of KW rolling the dice on the bullpen this year I fail to see how his roll of the dice in 2007 would be any different than a roll of the dice on Santana in 2008.

Somehow, though, I don't see KW putting together a staff of 11 pitchers all better than Ervin Santana.

letsgosox1592
07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
Dream On! :rolleyes:

More evidence of Sox fans overrating their teams' players.

I know. It would be something to get Brandon Wood and Ervin Santana. Brandon Wood is going to be a great player.

BadBobbyJenks
07-19-2007, 06:46 PM
I cant remember the last time I saw a pitcher with these drastic differences in home road splits. He is something in the neighborhood of mid 3s at home and over 8 on the road I think I remember seeing...

santo=dorf
07-19-2007, 09:04 PM
Thanks for setting us straight.

He did win 16 games last year at age 23, but obviously he's worthless.
So what?

Do wins really measure a pitcher's ability to pitch well? NO.

In 2006, on the road (i.e, almost all the games he would be pitching in for the Sox) he was 6-6, 5.95 ERA, with a 1.40 WHIP. Pass.

Lets just wait for Stoneman to expose him on waivers.

He has also had health issues as well.

Foulke You
07-20-2007, 03:06 AM
Ervin Santana has great stuff and would intrigue me a bit but it definitely would be a Contreras/Thornton type of reclamation project. Change of scenery, Spanish speaking manager, and Cooper's past success with some of these types of pitchers could be a recipe for success. Of course, it could also end up being another Aardsma/Sisco type of situation that backfires horribly.

The home vs. road thing is very odd. I don't think of Anaheim as being a pitcher's park. If it was Safeco or Comerica there might be something to it. It has to be a mental comfort level thing with him. Also, I'm not an Ervin Santana expert but does anyone know what TYPE of pitcher he is? Flyball? Groundball? Strikeout? The way our park plays in the warm weather, I would steer clear of flyball pitchers.

oeo
07-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Ervin Santana has great stuff and would intrigue me a bit but it definitely would be a Contreras/Thornton type of reclamation project. Change of scenery, Spanish speaking manager, and Cooper's past success with some of these types of pitchers could be a recipe for success. Of course, it could also end up being another Aardsma/Sisco type of situation that backfires horribly.

How did Sisco and Aardsma 'backfire?' We gave up Ross Gload and Neal Cotts (aka garbage).

Besides, Aardsma is a guy that can become very valuable to our pen next year if he can learn a breaking pitch. Sisco...who knows? We got him for Gload, so I don't really care.

Foulke You
07-20-2007, 04:36 PM
How did Sisco and Aardsma 'backfire?' We gave up Ross Gload and Neal Cotts (aka garbage).

Besides, Aardsma is a guy that can become very valuable to our pen next year if he can learn a breaking pitch. Sisco...who knows? We got him for Gload, so I don't really care.
Well, in the short term, I would qualify them as busts for now. They don't look like they'll be helping the big club in the present time. Perhaps down the road they might but for this season they were terrible.

Also, I never said we gave up the farm for Sisco and Aardsma, I was merely using them to illustrate a point that for every pitcher like Thornton and Contreras that you can "fix" and instantly turn into productive pitchers, there is going to be some that end up getting lit up like a Christmas tree as Aardsma and Sisco did this year.

oeo
07-20-2007, 04:39 PM
Also, I never said we gave up the farm for Sisco and Aardsma, I was merely using them to illustrate a point that for every pitcher like Thornton and Contreras that you can "fix" and instantly turn into productive pitchers, there is going to be some that end up getting lit up like a Christmas tree as Aardsma and Sisco did this year.

In neither case was it 'instant.' Thornton took a good two months before he started pitching well. Contreras took a full year.