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View Full Version : Closers who are better than Jenks


ndgt10
07-18-2007, 10:17 AM
I think a lot of the white sox faithful overrate big bad bobby. Here are some of the closers who I would take over the big guy.

Player---ERA---Saves/Save opportunities
****Jenks---3.89---25/30****

Putz---0.81---27/27
Papelbon---1.87---21/22
Hoffman---1.91---25/27
Rodriguez, F---2.16---24/26
Wagner---1.52---20/21
Nathan---2.03---18/20
Gagne---1.23---14/15
Gregg---3.02---20/21
Valverde---2.75---27/30
Cordero, F---2.56---30/33
Saito---1.63---24/27
Isringhausen---1.45---18/20
Weathers---3.23---18/21
Rivera---3.32---14/16
Accardo---2.79---13/16

From these statistics, it doesn't even appear that Jenks is a middle of the pack closer in the big leagues.

russ99
07-18-2007, 10:21 AM
I think a lot of the white sox faithful overrate big bad bobby. Here are some of the closers who I would take over the big guy.

Player---ERA---Saves/Save opportunities
****Jenks---3.89---25/30****

Putz---0.81---27/27
Papelbon---1.87---21/22
Hoffman---1.91---25/27
Rodriguez, F---2.16---24/26
Wagner---1.52---20/21
Nathan---2.03---18/20
Gagne---1.23---14/15
Gregg---3.02---20/21
Valverde---2.75---27/30
Cordero, F---2.56---30/33
Saito---1.63---24/27
Isringhausen---1.45---18/20
Weathers---3.23---18/21
Rivera---3.32---14/16
Accardo---2.79---13/16

From these statistics, it doesn't even appear that Jenks is a middle of the pack closer in the big leagues.

Isn't Joe Nathan a FA this offseason? If there was a guy in that group I'd break the bank for, it would be Nathan, plus it would hurt the Twins.

Bobby's still pretty good. I don't see him as a league leader by any means, and if the Sox got another closer, he's not especially well-suited for set up duty. The best thing about Bobby is he's young and he's still on his rookie contract. I don't see him leaving his closer role for the Sox anytime soon.

jabrch
07-18-2007, 10:22 AM
Here are some of the closers who I would take over the big guy.

Gregg---3.02---20/21
Weathers---3.23---18/21
Accardo---2.79---13/16



If you were a major league GM, you'd be a very bad one.

balke
07-18-2007, 10:30 AM
I could cut that list and half, but I would add Lidge to it. I think a majority of these pitchers could be better one year than the next, and that includes Jenks.

I don't really know what the point of this thread is, you're upset the Sox lost yesterday I'm guessing. Get used to it, there's no bullpen on this team, and half of AAA Charlotte is on the squad.

If Jenks could bring something in a trade, and the Sox could pry Lidge from the Astros, or pick up a closer like Nathan in the offseason, I think it'd be a good move. Jenks is a good pitcher but he's cheap, younger and I don't like how straight his fastball is. As soon as he loses velocity, he'll be out of the league, or at least out of the closers role.

rdivaldi
07-18-2007, 10:31 AM
If you were a major league GM, you'd be a very bad one.

Heh, heh. Now go easy on the guy, he's obviously just mad from last night. Bad losses bring out the worst in people.

russ99
07-18-2007, 10:37 AM
If Jenks could bring something in a trade, and the Sox could pry Lidge from the Astros, or pick up a closer like Nathan in the offseason, I think it'd be a good move.

The Astros are in the same situation as the White Sox right now, season down the tubes, sell high for prospects.

If the Astros trade Lidge (I'm not convinced as he's still not very expensive) it will be for a high-end prospect such as Jacoby Ellsbury, and the White Sox not only don't have an expendable prospect like that, but they're looking to add a similar player too.

Sockinchisox
07-18-2007, 10:44 AM
Swap Lidge and Jenks? haha.

The irony would be pretty good though.

southside rocks
07-18-2007, 10:47 AM
Isn't Bobby Jenks 25 years old?

Hasn't he been in the major leagues for all of two years?

Isn't it a bit early to be deciding that he should be scrapped? :?:

jabrch
07-18-2007, 10:53 AM
Isn't Bobby Jenks 25 years old?

Hasn't he been in the major leagues for all of two years?

Isn't it a bit early to be deciding that he should be scrapped? :?:


Nope - he's had a bad week. Dump him. Our fans rock!

balke
07-18-2007, 10:54 AM
Isn't Bobby Jenks 25 years old?

Hasn't he been in the major leagues for all of two years?

Isn't it a bit early to be deciding that he should be scrapped? :?:


You definitely can't "scrap" him because if anything this list made up shows how good he is. He's more durable so far than a lot of those closers, and he's putting up good enough #'s to be compared to them. My point of view is that a team with no bullpen right now, might do better to try and peddle a great closer like Jenks off for a wider range of relief help in the Pen. What's the point of having one good pitcher, when the 7th and 8th inning will be pitched by guys who give up the lead.

And I realize Lidge probably isn't attainable, I just know the Astros have been reported to be ready to part ways with him. Although our prospects haven't performed that well in the bigs, that doesn't mean they are worthless to other teams. I think Jenks would get more in a trade, so overall that kind of swapping out of Jenks for either a free agent closer or a trade that is less costly prospect-wise would work for the Sox.

spiffie
07-18-2007, 10:59 AM
Nope - he's had a bad week. Dump him. Our fans rock!
That or the fact that since 7/16/06 until now he has put up an ERA of 4.65 while losing velocity.

soxinem1
07-18-2007, 11:19 AM
There is an obvious drop in Jenks stuff for about a year, which means he has to adapt.

He does not throw his curveball enough anymore for some reason, and I think they are hesitant to teach him a cutter or a real slider because of his screwed together elbow.

But in all honesty, not to make excuses, he has been used erratically over the past few months, and there is nothing like consistent work to keep a closer sharp and keep life on his pitches.

Yes, he might have the 4.60 ERA since last year, but that is when the inconsistent play of the team began. In 2005 and the first half of 2006, there were 3-4 save opportunities a week, now we are lucky to get one or two.

ndgt10
07-18-2007, 11:24 AM
My point of view is that a team with no bullpen right now, might do better to try and peddle a great closer like Jenks off for a wider range of relief help in the Pen.
:rolleyes:

sircaffey1
07-18-2007, 11:37 AM
Closers are so vastly overrated to begin with. Besides the top 5 closers in the league, most closers fluctuate from season to season. Weathers, Accardo, and Gregg are good examples of why you don't need to break the bank on a closer.

balke
07-18-2007, 11:39 AM
25 saves, 3rd in AL.

You must not have been around when the Sox had Shingo, or Koch, or Marte. I think he's the best closer since Foulke for the Sox, and I don't think other teams would flinch at signing him. I don't think he's going to last very long though, so I do agree the Sox might wanna think about trading him if that's what you're implying.

thedudeabides
07-18-2007, 11:45 AM
The Astros are in the same situation as the White Sox right now, season down the tubes, sell high for prospects.

If the Astros trade Lidge (I'm not convinced as he's still not very expensive) it will be for a high-end prospect such as Jacoby Ellsbury, and the White Sox not only don't have an expendable prospect like that, but they're looking to add a similar player too.

Lidge is making $5.35 million this year, has had multiple visits to the dl, and has lost the closers role more than once. He hasn't been effective since the regular season in 05. I'll stick with Bobby. The Sox have quite a few holes to fill, why create another one?

balke
07-18-2007, 11:45 AM
Closers are so vastly overrated to begin with. Besides the top 5 closers in the league, most closers fluctuate from season to season. Weathers, Accardo, and Gregg are good examples of why you don't need to break the bank on a closer.

All NL closers, and Accardo wet the bed last night. He also hasn't really done anything. 13 saves? He's playing way over his head, his ERA was nearly 6 last season.

The Hermanson and Shingo effect is a rare and beautiful thing, but I'd rather take a guy who can at worst be your set-up guy in a bad year and that'll last. Jenks is that kind of pitcher. When I think of Weathers or Accardo, I think of what A lot of people thought Thornton or Aardsma would be doing this season at the beginning of the year.

balke
07-18-2007, 11:46 AM
Lidge is making $5.35 million this year, has had multiple visits to the dl, and has lost the closers role more than once. He hasn't been effective since the regular season in 05. I'll stick with Bobby. The Sox have quite a few holes to fill, why create another one?

The idea being that by losing Jenks you get a good return. Its not like you'd be cutting him. If there's no good return for Jenks, then of course you keep him around. There's not another legitimate bullpen pitcher on the staff at this point. I also think that Lidge's problems over the past season have been mental and that he's not that big of an injury risk. His latest injury was leg related, not arm. I think a lot of teams would be scared to go for him, which is why he'd be a decent pick-up if there was a hole at closer for the Sox. He'd come fairly cheap for what he possibly gives you.

jabrch
07-18-2007, 11:50 AM
Closers are so vastly overrated to begin with. Besides the top 5 closers in the league, most closers fluctuate from season to season. Weathers, Accardo, and Gregg are good examples of why you don't need to break the bank on a closer.

That's nuts. Championship teams, for the most part, don't have Weathers, Accardo and Gregg as their closers.

Interestingly, Weathers team is 39 and 55. Gregg was the second or third option and his team is 45 and 49. Accardo was the third option on his team, and they are 45 and 48. There's no pressure to be a closer when your team sucks and when you are the third guy brought in to do the job.

In general, the best teams in baseball have clear cut proven closers and don't have to fish for something out of the ****bucket. There are exceptions, but I am not interested in having to look for an exception at the closer spot if I have a choice.

That said, if someone wants to pay the price for Jenks that a top closer would go for, I'd surely be interested.

thedudeabides
07-18-2007, 12:01 PM
The idea being that by losing Jenks you get a good return. Its not like you'd be cutting him. If there's no good return for Jenks, then of course you keep him around. There's not another legitimate bullpen pitcher on the staff at this point. I also think that Lidge's problems over the past season have been mental and that he's not that big of an injury risk. His latest injury was leg related, not arm. I think a lot of teams would be scared to go for him, which is why he'd be a decent pick-up if there was a hole at closer for the Sox. He'd come fairly cheap for what he possibly gives you.

5 million salary, and parting with assets to obtain Lidge is far from fairly cheap in my eyes. I don't see his 'mental' problems solved by moving from the NL Central to the AL central. Part of his problems have been loss of command. Sound familiar?

ndgt10
07-18-2007, 12:05 PM
There's no pressure to be a closer when your team sucks and when you are the third guy brought in to do the job.
Funny that people use this excuse for why Jenks sucks this year. I would hate to see Jenks' statistics if this team was in contention.

dickallen15
07-18-2007, 12:06 PM
That's nuts. Championship teams, for the most part, don't have Weathers, Accardo and Gregg as their closers.

Interestingly, Weathers team is 39 and 55. Gregg was the second or third option and his team is 45 and 49. Accardo was the third option on his team, and they are 45 and 48. There's no pressure to be a closer when your team sucks and when you are the third guy brought in to do the job.

In general, the best teams in baseball have clear cut proven closers and don't have to fish for something out of the ****bucket. There are exceptions, but I am not interested in having to look for an exception at the closer spot if I have a choice.

That said, if someone wants to pay the price for Jenks that a top closer would go for, I'd surely be interested.
How can Jenks be considered a top closer at this point? I understand he's the best the White Sox have, and the Sox shouldn't trade him unless they get a decent return because then they will have zero in the bullpen, but Jenks has been going backwards. I don't think anyone could really say with any certainty that 2 years from now he will still be effective. It will be interesting to see what happens. The other thing is Jenks is racking up these easy saves and blowing tight games, and he soon will start becoming expensive.

rdivaldi
07-18-2007, 12:07 PM
Funny that people use this excuse for why Jenks sucks this year. I would hate to see Jenks' statistics if this team was in contention.

Jenks sucked yesterday. If you think Jenks has "sucked" this year, then you need to get your head examined.

Tragg
07-18-2007, 12:12 PM
In general, the best teams in baseball have clear cut proven closers and don't have to fish for something out of the ****bucket. There are exceptions, but I am not interested in having to look for an exception at the closer spot if I have a choice.

That said, if someone wants to pay the price for Jenks that a top closer would go for, I'd surely be interested.
I agree with you. You need a good closer to win.
Jenks is still a really good closer. He's had a couple of bad games, but he's been hard-used.
At a great price, fine, but otherwise keep him.

balke
07-18-2007, 12:15 PM
5 million salary, and parting with assets to obtain Lidge is far from fairly cheap in my eyes. I don't see his 'mental' problems solved by moving from the NL Central to the AL central. Part of his problems have been loss of command. Sound familiar?

I think he's over his mental problems. He's put up fantastic #'s this season, and got his first save of the season last night. I think from here on out on the season he will be fantastic. Its a great time to grab him (if there's a need). Right now there is no need, the Sox have a good closer.

spiffie
07-18-2007, 12:16 PM
That's nuts. Championship teams, for the most part, don't have Weathers, Accardo and Gregg as their closers.

If Dustin Hermanson's back hadn't acted up we would have gone into the 2005 playoffs with him as our closer. And I suspect anyone who suggested he shouldn't be would have been ripped apart and pointed to how many saves he had at that point.

The 2006 world champs used a guy who had 3 career saves as their World Series closer. Their opponents used a 38 year old guy who before 2005 hadn't saved more than 13 games in a season since 2000.

The 2004 world champs used a guy who was on his 3rd team in 3 years, and who would go on to record 15 more saves in his career.

Closer is the single most fluid position in baseball. We have a guy coming off the DL who can attest to that. All-star in 2003, closer in 2005, dumped for a low-ceiling minor leaguer in 2006 only to be dominant the rest of the year. In 2003 I'm sure the Royals would have laughed at the idea MacDougal wouldn't be their closer for years to come.

But maybe I'm wrong, after all, consistency counts. You need a closer who has recently demonstrated the ability to rack up a lot of saves in a row...like someone who could rack up a streak of 20+ opportunities without blowing one...someone like say...Ryan Dempster? HA! The Dumpster?! Oh wait, he pulled that off. Guess he's an elite closer too.

This isn't a call to dump Bobby for the first low-A prospect KW can get. But people are acting like anyone who suggests Bobby might not have a 10 year future as a dominant closer are insane, or that it is suggesting trading the next Mariano. Bobby had an amazing 2005 for two months and had a very strong first half of 2006. Since then he's been an average/slightly above average closer who has a lot of saves because he gets a lot of chances.

balke
07-18-2007, 12:26 PM
This isn't a call to dump Bobby for the first low-A prospect KW can get. But people are acting like anyone who suggests Bobby might not have a 10 year future as a dominant closer are insane, or that it is suggesting trading the next Mariano. Bobby had an amazing 2005 for two months and had a very strong first half of 2006. Since then he's been an average/slightly above average closer who has a lot of saves because he gets a lot of chances.

I don't think anyone suggested that., and I agree with what you say. But none of that makes me agree with the original post in this thread. Bobby's better than about half the pitchers on the list. No big injuries, lots of saves, can be dominant at times. That's a good closer.

WhiteSox5187
07-18-2007, 12:31 PM
Closers really have these up and down years. I mean really, think about it, over the past ten-fifteen years who have been good closers year in and year out? Trevor Hoffman and Marino Rivera certainly come to mind...and I'm not so sure if they ever led the league in saves (they must have though at least once). Typically closers are flash in the pan guys. At the same time, somtimes closers like Hoffman will have a bad year and the next year, holy crap, he's lights out! I'm just not so sure what the deal is with Bobby. He's just not blowing anyone away right now and in order for his curve to be really effective he needs to have that triple digit fastball. But he doesn't have that now. I wouldn't be shocked if Bobby turns it around and has a good rest of this season and then is lights out for 2008. But at the same time, I wouldn't be shocked if he is never very effective again.

If Nathan is a free agent after this year, I'd say get him. Use him as setup man, until Jenks blows the job as closer. Going into 2005 Ozzie said Shingo was his closer unless he lost the job, and in the off season we went out and got Dustin Hermanson, a closer. Well, Shingo lost his job so we went right to plan B which would have been plan A for a lot of teams. Hermy went down and we went to plan C. Usually if any team winds up using plan C they're in trouble (look at the Sox and the leadoff spot this year). We got lucky to have two good closers on that team.

ndgt10
07-18-2007, 12:32 PM
I don't think anyone suggested that., and I agree with what you say. But none of that makes me agree with the original post in this thread. Bobby's better than about half the pitchers on the list. No big injuries, lots of saves, can be dominant at times. That's a good closer.
Would you rather have a guy with 50 saves out of 70 opportunities or one with 30 saves out of 30 opportunities? Point being, save percentage is a much better indicator of a great closer than total number of saves, IMO.

Lip Man 1
07-18-2007, 12:35 PM
Nathan isn't a free agent until after 2008 I believe.

Lip

spiffie
07-18-2007, 12:41 PM
Nathan isn't a free agent until after 2008 I believe.

Lip
Twins have a $6 million option on him for next year, with a $1 million buyout. Hard to imagine them letting him go, but if they think Neshek can take over, I guess its possible they save the cash.

wassagstdu
07-18-2007, 12:47 PM
Jenks has lost enough from his fastball that it is more of a gift lately than a weapon. The curve is his best pitch, but he doesn't always have it, and you can't take pot luck with a closer.

oeo
07-18-2007, 12:54 PM
Sorry, but this thread is ****ing stupid. You're putting all these closers ahead of Jenks because Jenks has had a rough couple of weeks? On July 1, his ERA was 2.76. Every guy on this team has gone through a crap period this year, and I don't think any of them got nearly the attention that Jenks is getting.

Every year it's the same ****. During Spring Training and into the year it's is Jenk's hurt? He's throwing 90...OMG. Then he goes through one of these periods and suddenly people are ready to send him out of town.

JB98
07-18-2007, 12:57 PM
Sorry, but this thread is ****ing stupid. You're putting all these closers ahead of Jenks because Jenks has had a rough couple of weeks? On July 1, his ERA was 2.76. Every guy on this team has gone through a crap period this year, and I don't think any of them got nearly the attention that Jenks is getting.

Every year it's the same ****. During Spring Training and into the year it's is Jenk's hurt? He's throwing 90...OMG. Then he goes through one of these periods and suddenly people are ready to send him out of town.

I agree completely. If people here would really rather go to battle with Kevin Gregg than Bobby Jenks, then shame on them.

As I said last night, people here do a great job of throwing our very best players under the bus the minute they hit a rough stretch.

Bobby had 42 saves last year. He'll have 40 or more before this season is over. I believe in him.

SBSoxFan
07-18-2007, 01:00 PM
Would you rather have a guy with 50 saves out of 70 opportunities or one with 30 saves out of 30 opportunities? Point being, save percentage is a much better indicator of a great closer than total number of saves, IMO.

You're right. Jenks' career save % 87, Accardo's (for example) 64 % :rolleyes:

ndgt10
07-18-2007, 01:06 PM
You're right. Jenks' career save % 87, Accardo's (for example) 64 % :rolleyes:
Apparently, you have not seen Accardo's stuff this year. Flat out nasty. Big bad bobby has been throwing fat meatballs down the pipe that have been getting hammered.

SBSoxFan
07-18-2007, 01:19 PM
Apparently, you have not seen Accardo's stuff this year. Flat out nasty. Big bad bobby has been throwing fat meatballs down the pipe that have been getting hammered.

You're right, I haven't seen Accardo pitch. However, you wanted to talk save % so that was just a sample.

kobo
07-18-2007, 01:25 PM
Apparently, you have not seen Accardo's stuff this year. Flat out nasty. Big bad bobby has been throwing fat meatballs down the pipe that have been getting hammered.
Wow, he has nasty stuff this year. Doesn't change the fact he has been not so good the rest of his career. Heck, his career ERA is 4.33.

Fenway
07-18-2007, 01:27 PM
I wonder where Gagne is going to wind up?

chaerulez
07-18-2007, 01:51 PM
Jenks is pretty good, and one of my favorite players on the team, but no he's not a "shut down" closer yet. Not like Papelbon, Putz, Nathan, Wagner, Hoffman or Gagne/Rivera few years back. But how may shut down closers are there? Not many.

balke
07-18-2007, 02:18 PM
I wonder where Gagne is going to wind up?

If history is any indication, the DL.

balke
07-18-2007, 02:19 PM
Apparently, you have not seen Accardo's stuff this year. Flat out nasty. Big bad bobby has been throwing fat meatballs down the pipe that have been getting hammered.

He didn't look so nasty last night.

balke
07-18-2007, 02:22 PM
Would you rather have a guy with 50 saves out of 70 opportunities or one with 30 saves out of 30 opportunities? Point being, save percentage is a much better indicator of a great closer than total number of saves, IMO.

Then maybe we should only give Bobby 30 save opportunities a season and see how he does.

russ99
07-18-2007, 02:52 PM
I think he's over his mental problems. He's put up fantastic #'s this season, and got his first save of the season last night. I think from here on out on the season he will be fantastic. Its a great time to grab him (if there's a need). Right now there is no need, the Sox have a good closer.

I'm not convinced the Astros are going to deal him. He's signed cheaply for one more year, and doing a lot better after his injury and Garner's headgames the first couple of weeks of the season.

Also, the Astros have recently only dealt their closers when they have another one ready to take over in the system. Driskill in Round Rock (AAA) is a journeyman and that Middleton kid in AA will take a few more years to get to a major league level.

I think the Astros are going to deal Wheeler and Qualls first. They've both had down years, but I wonder if the Sox would be interested and what it would take in return.

Fenway
07-18-2007, 02:53 PM
If history is any indication, the DL.

probably the day after the trade :tongue:

SoxSpeed22
07-18-2007, 03:24 PM
There is an obvious drop in Jenks stuff for about a year, which means he has to adapt.

He does not throw his curveball enough anymore for some reason, and I think they are hesitant to teach him a cutter or a real slider because of his screwed together elbow.In that case, a splitter, changeup or possibly knuckle-curve is necessary. The splitter would make more sense for him.

letsgosox1592
07-18-2007, 03:32 PM
In the next 5 years, Bobby Jenks will be known as one of the elite closers in baseball.

jabrch
07-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Apparently, you have not seen Accardo's stuff this year. Flat out nasty. Big bad bobby has been throwing fat meatballs down the pipe that have been getting hammered.

He's had a few bad outings. There's not a single GM in baseball who would choose Accardo over Jenks.

Gregory Pratt
07-18-2007, 10:46 PM
In the next 5 years, Bobby Jenks will be known as one of the elite closers in baseball.

No way. I doubt Bobby lasts five more years.

I root for him, sure, but there's absolutely no way he can remain an "elite" closer. He's a good closer. Very good. Not elite.

kittle42
07-18-2007, 11:18 PM
Yes, he might have the 4.60 ERA since last year, but that is when the inconsistent play of the team began.

Yes, including Jenks.

kittle42
07-18-2007, 11:18 PM
In the next 5 years, Bobby Jenks will be known as one of the elite closers in baseball.

:o:

Dan Mega
07-18-2007, 11:29 PM
Only Rivera and Hoffman (the best closer ever, period) are "elite". The rest are really good to great.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Didn't look too bad today, did he?

JB98
07-20-2007, 12:56 AM
Didn't look too bad today, did he?

David Weathers would have struck out the side on nine pitches.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 09:35 AM
David Weathers would have struck out the side on nine pitches.

Jeremy Accardo would have done it in 7.

balke
07-20-2007, 09:38 AM
Only Rivera and Hoffman (the best closer ever, period) are "elite". The rest are really good to great.

And (though an injury machine) I don't think you can leave out Gagne. 2nd and 7th all time Single season saves leader. Franky Rodriguez ain't too bad either but perhaps he's just "great".

JB98
07-20-2007, 01:45 PM
Jeremy Accardo would have done it in 7.

Kevin Gregg would have done it in six.

jabrch
07-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Kevin Gregg would have done it in six.

Great closers...much better than Bobby.

nevr say dye sox
07-20-2007, 03:39 PM
Last week I suggested putting Contreas in the bullpen seeing as we won't be unable to un load him. Making Bobby our setup guy in the 8th and signing a closer. People here shot down the idea. Now there are a list of people suggesting the same thing I said a week ago. Jenks velocity will continue to go down this year throught the rest of his career. His arm is held together with screws, how much longer can he keep his velocity? I'm not saying he won't continue to be a good bullpen, I just don't think he'll continue to be as hard throwing as say 05' or 06'.

MetroPD
07-21-2007, 12:13 PM
In the next 5 years, Bobby Jenks will be known as one of the elite closers in baseball.

Yep and his consistent loss of velocity as well as being hit hard just about every time out is only fad.


With that being said, we'd only be 9 games back if Jenks didn't blow his saves this year.

getonbckthr
07-21-2007, 12:57 PM
Yep and his consistent loss of velocity as well as being hit hard just about every time out is only fad.


With that being said, we'd only be 9 games back if Jenks didn't blow his saves this year.
And 18 back if Jones nailed all of his down.

jabrch
07-30-2007, 11:16 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, the great Jeremy Accardo...


Jeremy Accardo blew his fourth save of the year after giving up a run in the ninth Monday versus Tampa Bay.

Accardo was one of the league's best relievers for two months, but he has a 4.74 ERA and a 1.63 WHIP in 19 innings since the beginning of June. The Jays aren't going to pull him from the closer's role, but Casey Janssen still looks like the Jays' best reliever to us. Of course, Janssen also allowed a run tonight.

roadrunner
07-30-2007, 11:53 PM
If Jenks can be dealt for quality prospects, then I say go for it. I just read an article about the July 31, 1997 trade that sent Heathcliff Slocumb to the Mariners and Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe to the Red Sox. If KW can find the right desperate team perhaps he can pull off a similar coup ten years later.

There's also a part of me that worries Bobby Jenks is Bob Jamesesque.

Every team in the league is jonesing for bullpen help. Jenks would be more valuable to another right now than he is for the Sox as his addition alone could put a team over the top (I'm thinking Brewers/Phillies/(insert any other team here)

JB98
07-31-2007, 12:07 AM
If Jenks can be dealt for quality prospects, then I say go for it. I just read an article about the July 31, 1997 trade that sent Heathcliff Slocumb to the Mariners and Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe to the Red Sox. If KW can find the right desperate team perhaps he can pull off a similar coup ten years later.

There's also a part of me that worries Bobby Jenks is Bob Jamesesque.

Every team in the league is jonesing for bullpen help. Jenks would be more valuable to another right now than he is for the Sox as his addition alone could put a team over the top (I'm thinking Brewers/Phillies/(insert any other team here)

If we want to win in 2008, Bobby Jenks has to be a part of it. We already need at least three new arms for the bullpen. Why make it four?

jabrch
07-31-2007, 12:09 AM
If we want to win in 2008, Bobby Jenks has to be a part of it. We already need at least three new arms for the bullpen. Why make it four?

If some team wants to give us three top tier prospects, then we can talk. That's the price that one of the best (just behind Jeremy Accardo) closers in baseball goes for.

JB98
07-31-2007, 12:16 AM
If some team wants to give us three top tier prospects, then we can talk. That's the price that one of the best (just behind Jeremy Accardo) closers in baseball goes for.

Yeah, it would have to be quite a bounty.

I think there are other relief targets that would cost contenders less, like Dotel and Gagne, so I doubt Kenny is fielding too many calls about Jenks.

Bobby's name hasn't been mentioned at all in the trade talks I've heard.

kitekrazy
07-31-2007, 01:05 AM
He does not throw his curveball enough anymore for some reason,

I think it's because AJ can't handle it.

kitekrazy
07-31-2007, 01:11 AM
My point of view is that a team with no bullpen right now, might do better to try and peddle a great closer like Jenks off for a wider range of relief help in the Pen. What's the point of having one good pitcher, when the 7th and 8th inning will be pitched by guys who give up the lead.


Why trade someone you know who is consistent? Look at the Sox history the past few years. Shingo, Polite , Hermanson, Cotts, McDougal. Great one year, suck the next.
I think it's too big of a risk right now.

kitekrazy
07-31-2007, 01:23 AM
Sorry, but this thread is ****ing stupid. You're putting all these closers ahead of Jenks because Jenks has had a rough couple of weeks? On July 1, his ERA was 2.76. Every guy on this team has gone through a crap period this year, and I don't think any of them got nearly the attention that Jenks is getting.

Every year it's the same ****. During Spring Training and into the year it's is Jenk's hurt? He's throwing 90...OMG. Then he goes through one of these periods and suddenly people are ready to send him out of town.

I guess this is what happens on a day the Sox are off.

We should trade anybody that's good on this team so we can get something for them.:rolleyes:
We should trade Garland too while we are at it.

roadrunner
07-31-2007, 01:33 AM
Why trade someone you know who is consistent? Look at the Sox history the past few years. Shingo, Polite , Hermanson, Cotts, McDougal. Great one year, suck the next.
I think it's too big of a risk right now.

Last year his ERA was 4.00 and his career is 3.50. Not great for a closer and in my book does not qualify as "knowing that he is consistent."

If we want to win in 2008, Bobby Jenks has to be a part of it. We already need at least three new arms for the bullpen. Why make it four?

I basically agree with you. I just couldn't believe how much the Bosox got for Slocumb that year. I don't advocate shopping Bobby around but I would also be in favor of Kenny taking advantage of a desperate team to acquire multiple top tier prospects.